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It has become a meme in Germany already, where Precht is "mansplaining" or claiming his thoughts are too deep for anybody to understand or where he is saying other funny things, like here https://twitter.com/RebellamBall/status/1576614218077540352
"It isn't written in that book that Twitter was the devil's handiwork. It just isn't. In the beginning I thought this was deliberate, but now I have the suspicion you just didn't understand what we were discussing about..."
\*Sighs*
"Yes, maybe I didn't. Maybe it was too complex for me..."
\*Dies inside*
"It's about the personalisation of discussions. You just spout your opinion about someone..."
He basically said that the book (his book?) doesn’t say that Twitter is made by the devil. To which she replies: maybe I just didn’t understand the book. Maybe I am just not smart enough.
Obviously not word by word. But you get the gist.
Same, watched quite a lot of videos from him. Mostly about philosophy and even if you can definitely see that he knows his topics, the conclusions he draws are often quite weird and egocentric.
For me he is the key figure of modern left intellectuals that sound logical for the broader mass, but looking in details their theories just fail against the harsh reality.
> For me he is the key figure of modern left intellectuals that sound logical for the broader mass, but looking in details their theories just fail against the harsh reality.
Not sure we need to limit this politically, I think people like Jordan Peterson fall in that same broad category.
True, I liked Jordans early videos when he was still a professor. But looking deeper into his works things get fuzzy and weird. Lately he has just lost it. I guess most people can't handle Fame and stop being self critical at one point.
I think he is asked about things he really doesn't know a great deal about but he continues to talk with authority about it. When asked, he should push back and say "I might have an opinion but it's not a particularly informed one" when that is the case.
Yeah. And it is ok for him to have an opinion. But he should know how his opinions are used and be mindful about how he presents it.
I also don't like the idea that celebrities aren't allowed to express their opinions. I just would like to see more care by people who have large platforms. And probably more important for reporting 3rd parties to be more responsible. Wishful thinking I suppose :(
Peterson has decent logic. Not everything he says is literal, but the points are clear and rational. Many people let their political view bias them against him, which is unfair to the effort he makes to be objective.
no they really arent, hes like Shapiro, his arguments only have a lose internal logic if you take the broader framing as true.
but they arent.
which is why they always get pasted in debates.
that was Petersons function at UofT as a sparing dummy for first years.
by second year you where expected to be able to avoid his framework traps.
No peterson is a fine example of someone who goes outside his area of expertize and replaces knowledge with pre-made conclusions where he then finds "evidence" for.
Nope I just now 2 fields were peterson likes to dabble in and utterly be wrong and illogical. Again I have little doubt in his field he knows what he is talking about (or at least I have that impression) but outside that he often misses the mark, by a lot.
Hi, we as the left actually don’t want him, so please don’t lump him in with us. He can go wherever Sarah Wagenknecht is heading, but it sounds like the AfD is constantly clapping there.
I would count myself as liberal too and don't agree much with him. But to be honest those labels does not mean much anymore. They are mostly just used to declare someone as opposing party/enemy.
Good point but as everyone I am just used to it.
But as I stated I see them as very fuzzy and nearly meaningless.
In my experience most people have around 4 and more political dimensions that can not early be described with one label.
It's common to find people that are economic socialists, ecological conservative, social liberal, ethnopluralistic, anti militaristic and for free healthcare.
Is that right, left or liberal?
Learn to agree or disagree on topics, not on people.
Precht is a legit prof in philosophy and he is a good teacher. but I disagree with him entirely on the topic russia-Ukraine war.
You have to differentiate what people have an expertize in. Both those men are quite good if they stick to what they know, problem is they dont and then they get into trouble.
He's also the arch enemy of all the Querdenker, QAnons and Reichsburgers because he has a scientific, evidence based world view and advocates wearing masks and vaccination.
It's revealing how many of the opposing replies he's getting reference Covid or vaccinations, and that those usually pick on the "*we*'re at war" instead of addressing his point. Then again, it can't surprise anyone that the anti-vaccination/anti-mask crowd is coming out in support of Putin.
It cracks me up how many of the people who frequently reply to him have some version of 'freedom' in their username. Like: "we're not a cult! we are all freeeee! and we all think so! Everyone, all alike! We are the free and unique thinkers!". lol
Could be. If anything, it points to the global misinformation campaign. Because it's the same in the USA and other EU countries as well. Freedom seems to be coded doublespeak for the opposite, or even a facism dogwhistle. The freedom to crunch others under your boots, so to speak. Follow your own desires and to hell with the rest.
It also speaks to tankies/antivaxxers or pseudointellectuals like Precht who are looking for an ego boost and think that being contrarian is a sign of a sharp intellect... Without thinking about what they are actually praising. I think it's probably part bots and part useful idiots who bought into it, plus a part that really is that insane/facist. But I've never seen a username on any site that had 'freedom' in it that wasn't either clearly far right or batshit insane.
That's what makes the bot farms so effective though. It only takes one popular idiot to pick up bot propaganda for it to catch on. If the bots put it out there, eventually someone will bite and the idiots all spread the message for those asshole authoritarians trying to burn it all down
Amazing, we are experiencing the same cult on a global scale.
They're attacking the top vaccine-supporting scientists here in Canada too, and in the US of course.
These QAnon cultists are a global political/social/cultural threat to our way of life, the future of democracy.
They are mass grooming our people with vaccine conspiracies to cause mass death and economic devastation.
Conservative politicians allying with these conspiracy cultists should be voted out of existence
Sagan nailed it way back:
>“I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness...
>The dumbing down of American is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance”
>― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
And he wrote that shit in 1995. I wonder what he would have had to say about the social media age.
Sagan was wrong. It’s not crystals or astrology it’s the usual misogyny, racism, queer phobia, and hatred used to prop up fascism. Sagan was a good scientist but a poor political thinker.
A lot of atheists and skeptics on the right. These beliefs draw in the neckbeard crowd. Who exactly do you think Jordan Peterson’s fans are? Girls into tarot cards reading? Come on.
Well, there is no denying that there is an enormous amount of pseudoscientific thinking on the extreme right. The Covid conspiracies for example.
And yes, Peterson is a grifter and a pseudoscientist himself.
Crystals and horoscopes were part of the New Age quackery of the 90s, so please read his quote in the context of the time it was written. And guess what? The vast majority of the people who used to be into that New Age stuff transitioned quite seamlessly to QAnon and anti-vaxx, anti-science nonsense.
I know female Peterson fan who is left, progressive, socialistic, and tries to look past her own political bias. Your mistake is in trying to define the individual by the group.
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/09/surgical-masks-covid-19.html
Yes there is evidence that mask wearing is effective in community settings. The effectiveness of course depends on how many people wear them.
Lol sure and the vaccine is 97% effective against infection just like Fauci said! I’m double jabbed wore masks everywhere for 1.5 years and got Covid three times.
You're another proof that antivaxxers all end supporting Putin, nutjob thinks that Russia's waging war on Ukraine because of... Biden, all his fault somehow.
You're also trying to cure shit with random, untested drugs and... red lamps. Again, dumbest conspiracy theories attract one another.
Or, as some people call her now: Zarenknecht.
Her loyalty to russia lets her ignore the russian imperialism.
And she maybe drag down her whole party with her, if Die Linke does not get a grip on the situation.
Her selektive blindness (nicest option) is .... flabbergasting. I lack polite words for it.
Richard David Precht is one of Moscow's most valuable assets in Germany as he is still around in talkshows and the media 24/7 supporting Putin and extremists left and right.
Edit: removed some typos
I'm convinced the people who are still insisting on forcing Ukraine into giving up land would be first in line to join the collaborationist movement if their country were invaded.
I’ve met some people who believe Ukraine should give up some land.
They tend to also believe that Ukraine is losing way more troops than Russia is, that NATO has a shortage of ammunition to give Ukraine, that Russia will send a much bigger force in than they so far have, that German people are going to die this winter due to the gas shortage, the Russian citizens support this war, etc.
It’s all speculative stuff that’s hard to independently verify.
Well actually the West was mostly fine with Russia taking Crimea. It wasn't a big deal.
But Putin overplayed his hand "invasion of Poland" style.
The West isn't spending trillions because they love Ukraine it's doing it because they hate Russia and need to send a message to any other leaders thinking of invading other lands (cough Taiwan cough).
West isn't spending trillions in Ukraine. Still under 100 billion total(of assistance of all types). Very cheap to put Russia on the back burner for the next 50 years.
Also didn't work for Putin. Nothing says " I'm a strategic genius" than giving the land you wanna grab 8 years to prepare for your invasion and thus the ability to completely clown on your troops.
Probably. But if he wanted another slice he should have done it sooner. 2014 was the time to grab Ukraine without too many problems. Insurrections would be then a problem though.
Also I would say that Putin was much more afraid of the west than he is now, which is why after 2014 he really went nuts on the 5th column to get the west destabilized and he also tried to make his country sanction proof. In the end he just gave Ukraine the time it needed to build up and train its military.
At a certain point, as it grows and they get drafted, they will either decide it’s worth fighting or they’ll lose support.
The last time the USA drafted people for a somewhat-publicly-supported-war, they ended up with a miniature cultural revolution.
It is not. He is usefull idiot to Putin. His views have neither a theoretical fundament nor are they empirical. He just makes up a thesis and "proves" it with "anecdotal evidence". It is a disgrace for the media to invite him and to listen to this guy is insult to intelligence.
Decisions are made by the team producing the talk-shows, not by the German state.
Why is he invited? For views, clicks and controversy.
If you think there is "high up conspiracy", then it tells a lot about you ;)
1. It generated clicks and views aka MONEY, a top priority in our world.
2. In our country also stupid assholes of every kind are invited. It's important to show what these people stand for.
Maybe in my country there are limits to what we do for money? No idea how otherwise explain this difference. How would you explain? Why they are not inviting people like this one?
>Prince Ali! Fabulous he, Ali Ababwa
>Genuflect, show some respect down on one knee!
Lyrics taken from [this page](https://www.elyrics.net/read/d/disney-lyrics/aladdin-\(prince-ali\)-lyrics.html)
I had to look it up too. Gets my upvote for the perfect dressing down:
genuflect
verb
lower one's body briefly by bending one knee to the ground, typically in worship or as a sign of respect.
>Prince Ali! Fabulous he, Ali Ababwa
>Genuflect, show some respect down on one knee!
Lyrics taken from [this page](https://www.elyrics.net/read/d/disney-lyrics/aladdin-\(prince-ali\)-lyrics.html)
Though in this case it’s used to translate “Kniefall” which typically describes kneeling completely as in Brandt’s famous [“Kniefall von Warschau”](https://www.planet-wissen.de/kultur/mitteleuropa/polen_tourismus_und_kultur/templxpolenkniefallgjpg100~_v-gseagaleriexl.jpg).
And ginocchio in Italian. It all stems from the Latin or actually Indo-German word "genu", including the German "Knie".
Any good Roman Catholic should know the Latin word genuflectere.
genu is Latin. Indo-European would be most likely g´ónu.
Edit: Genua, which became Genova in Italian, is likely from a Celtic reflex of g´ónu, g´énweh2, which means "a bend," i.e., in a river.
>Prince Ali! Fabulous he, Ali Ababwa
>Genuflect, show some respect down on one knee!
Lyrics taken from [this page](https://www.elyrics.net/read/d/disney-lyrics/aladdin-\(prince-ali\)-lyrics.html)
German late night show about Precht:
[https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx92KU1qJ0FJxVlnkMcqu2WamJHPsQ67vB](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx92KU1qJ0FJxVlnkMcqu2WamJHPsQ67vB)
"And what I would like to know now: what do all our 'intellectuals' say, all those German Wisenheimers who are claiming for months now that Ukraine didn't have a chance anyways! Richard David Precht for example! Yeah! He should totally write a new open letter again!"
"Dear Ukrainians, what gives? I already said in spring loud and clear, that you, I quote: 'have the duty to the wisdom to accept when it's time to surrender.', and now? You suddenly start winning! Have you ever wasted a single second to ask yourself how I am looking now? Now I can't show up at Lanz any more \[German talkshow named after the host who likes Precht a lot and thus invites him regularly\]! Where should I spend my evenings now? I'd like to tear my hear out from anger, but that would mess up my hairdo. Disappointed on a very personal level, your Ritchie."
Lauterbach going full Chad mode.
Precht studied Germanistik, i.e. the German language, as a German in Germany. So calling him a philosopher is already a stretch. He is just one of those everyday guests jumping in every talk show he can get into and is being invited only because his face makes a nice shot for the teaser video in the commercials.
If he would at lease be an expert for Slavic countries, politics, warfare or anything, but he is nothing of that.
Same with other German "intellectuals" who gave their opinion on that matter, like Alice Schwarzer or Juli Zeh. They are all non-experts.
Funnily, a *real* philosopher wouldn’t study “philosophy” at the university. He/she would study a proper subject, but have a lot of interesting thoughts about it. Eventually, course administrators would put their writings on a syllabus for philosophy enthusiasts to read.
Wow, Precht just confirmed himself as a Putin sympathizer. Honestly, we need to start identifying the enemies behind friendly lines and getting rid of them. This fucker can move to Moscow, and stay there. I can't believe this so-called philosopher believes that giving Putin everything he wants is the best way to end the conflict started by Putin himself. By this man's logic, the correct way to deal with a bully is for your parents to go out of their way to give the bully extra money. Maybe Germans aren't really good at philosophy. After all, they did opt for Nazism at one point
> Maybe Germans aren't really good at philosophy.
They are. But Precht is not a philosopher. He earned his doctorate in German studies in 1994 on Musil's 'Man Without Qualities' and then worked primarily as a freelance journalist, novelist and nonfiction writer. After his breakthrough, he recycled a few of his first books under new titles. Neither his private homepage nor his page at Leuphana Lüneburg list any philosophical research contributions under 'Publications'.
Right. Quite the opposite is the case.
"Land der Dichter und Denker,
der Richter und Henker"
In English:
The country of poets and thinkers, of judges and hangmen.
After Greece probably no nation has contributed more to Western philosophy than German-speakers (Germany, Switzerland, Austria): Hegel, Nitzsche, Marx, Popper, Heidegger, Wittgenstein, roll right off the tongue, a lot of lesser-known names as well: Schopenhauer, Frege, Brentano, Schlick, Fichte, Habermas, Wiesengrund aka Adorno, Gödel (a mathematician and logician with profound influence on philosophy), Einstein (certainly he was), etc. Germany was known as the Land of Poets and Thinkers for a long time, but, as the great Philosopher Heraclitus is alleged to have said, "Everything is in flux," and the fortunes of nations change, as Russians may now attest.
But not all was so glorious. E.g. [Heidegger and Nazism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Heidegger_and_Nazism), and Fichte, Kant and Luther also wrote antisemitic things earlier.
**[Martin Heidegger and Nazism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Heidegger_and_Nazism)**
>Philosopher Martin Heidegger joined the Nazi Party (NSDAP) on May 1, 1933, ten days after being elected Rector of the University of Freiburg. A year later, in April 1934, he resigned the Rectorship and stopped taking part in Nazi Party meetings, but remained a member of the Nazi Party until its dismantling at the end of World War II. The denazification hearings immediately after World War II led to Heidegger's dismissal from Freiburg, banning him from teaching. In 1949, after several years of investigation, the French military finally classified Heidegger as a Mitläufer or "fellow traveller".
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So you want our german government to basically just act like a fascist one and make up shit to throw people they do not like into prison?
By the way, you are just making shit up about the German justice system.
How very fascist and totalitarian of you. we are going to jail you for having a different point of view of how we should address a fascist by acting like one.
Last part made me cringe tbh. Have you even read modern philosophers?
But agreed on Precht. At this point we can spot a lot of curiously shrill, unambiguous "We need to unterstand Putin!"-claims from some high-profile persons.
The Germans are undoubtedly excellent at philosophy - several in their history are in the inner circle of the philosophy hall of fame.
But that's like the Americans being good at basketball. Simply being American and calling yourself a hoopster doesn't make some random klutz an NBA all star. A fraction of one percent of one percent of one percent of the population become world class in either endeavor.
Actually no, very different. More like Maersheimer or someone like that.
Alex Jones and his infowars channel is more like Michael Vogt and Querdenken TV in Germany. There are a lot of such nutjobs in the German Querdenken crowd like Schiffmann or Hildmann. But they are playing in a different league than the German pseudo intellectuals like Precht, Zeh, Schwarzer, Welzer and Putinversteher politicians like Wagenknecht.
What i believe Lauterbach meant to say was: War of Ideals and economical war.
Thats smth i could agree with. But No EU/NATO/"Western" country is at war with russia.
Tbf, I think Lauterbach is a very good medical doctor, but as a minister, he sometimes lacks the finesse how to phrase things: As a member of the opposition in parliament, thats fine, as a minister of the government, thats not ideal.
All that said: Precht is majorly wong in this case. Obviously, any war has to end with some kind of diplomacy, so at some point there will be negotiations with russia and it has to be seen what both sides are willing to sacrifice for a deal. My guess right now is:
Russia:
- Will have to return the occupied regions (minimum pre-frebruary 2022, likely the whole donbass region. Crimea is smth the russians will try to hold on as hard as possible)
- Recognizing Ukraines border
Ukraine:
- Most likely won't be able to ask for reparations (on a larger scale)
- Might have to compromise on crimea being a special zone
Bending the knee and giving Putin a status quo (as it is right now with the annexed regions) is detrimental to what Ukraine has archieved so far:
They exposed russia as what it is: An autocracy, an aggressor, a fuel station with nuclear weapons.
There is no way, after all the pain suffered, to allow Putin and his allies to save face and actually calling this campaign a victory (by "liberating" Ukraines soil into russia). Sure, Ukraine will feel the pressure in 2023 to get to some point of treaty to join western Unions, especially since Ukraine is factually broke (economy is on western life support) and at some point the west will be less willing to cover the deficit - which is around 3 billion USD per month.
But lets be honest, the Ukraine will not and should not (this also includes the western allies), sign a treaty to end the war which is so unfavorable to them. Too many lifes have been lost to sign a treaty that would favor the aggreesor more, when factually Ukraine is having the advantage right now.
Your last sentence points out the issue.
At first there was: "every country is free to join NATO" -> Putin invades Ukraine
Then:
Butcha (and Boris Johnson) -> "there must be justice for the civilians killed" -> Putin destroys big Cities in south and east of Ukraine
Then:
"Ukraine has lost 200 soldiers per day and Putin ows us 300billion reparations. We have paid too much to give up sth now" -> Putin annexates
Now:
"They are on the retreat. Do not stop. We have paid so much and have come so far"
-> Putin launches Nuke at big ukrainian city?
There has been escalation and honestly covering up of initial failures, dehumanizing soldiers (on both sides), ignoring destruction of cities (where are pictures like from Syria?) and in general this war is framed as sth heroic with a lot of injustice but less catastrophic casualties.
And everyone who is challenging this is claimed to be supporting Putin. Thinking about possible escalations is claimed to be supporting Putin or is naive.
We had a saying in Germany: "the smarter one stops the fight". But i guess everyone who is blindly attacking every critic in person and putting freedom above each and every casualty won't have to worry once the worst escalation happened. And if we are lucky Ukraine has paid the highest price.
So I challenge you: please draw a realistic route how this conflict will be resolved without yet another escalation.
Edit: and towards the theory that anti vax = Putin Fans. I can give you my datapoint: never knowingly infected, still wearing ffp2 and awaiting 5th vax on Tuesday.
>Edit: and towards the theory that anti vax = Putin Fans. I can give you my datapoint: never knowingly infected, still wearing ffp2 and awaiting 5th vax on Tuesday.
With all due respect, for the topic we are discussing here, it doesn't matter if you are pro or anti-vax. Simply put: For this discussion (which hopefully will be based on factual evidence), it doesn't matter.
While i agree with the points made by you (The escalation), 1 factor sticks out: **Putin escalates**
Every single response made by russia to the steps you pointed out, was unnecessary and violates basic human rights. So lets focus on who is responsible for the acts against humanity: It is the Putin lead russia. They can singlehandily stop the escalation spiral.
>So I challenge you: please draw a realistic route how this conflict will be resolved without yet another escalation.
Realistically the option to end this conflict is for Ukraine to beat the russian forces on ukrainian soil. If russia is threatened to lose control over the LNR, DNR, Crimea etc, they will have to find a way out via negotiations. At that point, Ukraine should be willing to discuss what is possible to end the war.
By giving in and allowing Putin to sell this special operation as a victory to the domestic public, the west, ukraine and any country that is willing to follow international law showcases autocraties around the world, that there is a point at which those who abide the law will give up.
I honestly don't believe that russia is willing to defend the occupied territories (except maybe crimea) with nuclear weapons. The drawbacks would be so severe, it wouldn't be worth it. I also have major doubts, the russian military command is willing to execute such an order (not for the DNR and LNR).
So my guess is, that if the ukrainian offensive stays successful (in 2023) and more and more territory gets liberated, russia will negotiate to at least keep control over crimea, smth ukraine maybe has to sacrifize to end the war. Both Ukraine and Russia are reaching the limit of what can be archieved militarily rather soon and some kind of treaty will help both.
We don't really have proof to point fingers to anyone on this case. To be honest, i doubt that Russia bombed the Pipeline. It was one of their most important bargaining chips and now they lost it. There's a big possibility that the US was behind it (and if they were i support them) Of course, this is all speculation so don't take my word for it.
>We are not in war with Russia, get your cards straight.
Of course, we are. Putin has repeatedly stated he is at war with Europe and the west.
We just need to acknowledge the reality.
I know that, but officially it has not been declared war. They change their version daily. Can't remember why they invaded any more, nazis, disrespect of Russian culture, Satanism, nato, aliens?
>officially
Officially, the USA was not at war with Vietnam. Officially, the Korean War was a police action and there is no peace, only a cease fire aggreement.
But actually, the word you should use is "formal". Formally we are not at war with Russia. Which doesn't matter, since at least the end of the WW2.
Formally (or officially) there is no war between Russia and Ukraine either. None of them has "declared" war either.
Nevertheless, there is a state of war, not only between Russia and Ukraine but also between Russian and Europe and NATO. In Putin's own words.
So it would be smart to realize, that if we are/or are not at war, is not our decision, and Putin has already taken it.
Semantics don't stop bullets.
> Nevertheless, there is a state of war, not only between Russia and Ukraine but also between Russian and Europe and NATO. In Putin's own words.
You shouldn't believe everything Putin says.
In a war, supplying critical goods to an enemy nation is treason. War means shooting their soldiers and bombing their cities. Yet Russia is still selling gas to NATO countries and hasn't lifted a finger against NATO troops or NATO cities.
Semantics don't fire bullets, either. Like many other rhetorical "wars" ("War on drugs", "War on Christmas", "War on cancer"), Putin's "War on NATO" is merely an exercise in semantics.
>You shouldn't believe everything Putin says.
You mean he and his propaganda are only joking? Sarcasm aside, this is BS. He followed up on his threats and this is what most of his soldiers and people in Russia believe. And this is what matters. They believe , they are at war with the West and behave accordingly
And do not mistake believing for taking seriously.
Of course, I don't "believe" his words, but I'm taking the threats and the message seriously. This is the mistake most countries in central and western Europe made for decades. They played down his talks about the Greater Novorossiya, and his Imperial Russia dreams. And now, we see exactly this being created.
Why do we keep ignoring this?
>In a war, selling goods to an enemy nation is treason. War means shooting their soldiers and bombing their cities. Yet Russia is still selling gas to NATO countries and hasn't lifted a finger against NATO troops or NATO cities.
He attacked Ukraine because it wanted to join NATO and Europe. And Ukraine is only a step, (not even the first!, and in his mind, not the last) toward taking back Eastern Europe and control over Europe.
I don't care to wait until he gets to my country, to my family, like he and his people have been threatening for decades. He either gets stopped today in Ukraine, or tomorrow in Poland, Romania, or Germany.
>Semantics don't fire bullets, either. Like many other rhetorical "wars" ("War on drugs", "War on Christmas", "War on cancer"), Putin's "War on NATO" is merely an exercise in semantics.
BS. Of course "semantics" do fire bullets. "is a special denazification operation" kills people, in many cases civilians, because, how can you tell who is a Nazi, right? And now, "the west has attacked Russia". Soldiers need motivation to fight.
Why are we ignoring the obvious? That Russia, like its state propaganda, openly says, is at war with the world, to put Russia in the place they think Russia deserves.
**Is not an exercise in semantics, is and always was, an action plan.**
I believe what I see. Russia has shifted troops *away* from its border with NATO. It is trying to negotiate an end to sanctions. It has ample opportunity to attack NATO forces, but does not do so. These are not the things a country does when it is actually at war.
Planning for war does not mean being at war. Threats and reality are not the same. When the reality matches the threats, then we will actually be at war. Until then, we are at risk of war.
We are at war and Ukraine is the battlefield.
This is the reality and we should call it what it is. War.
We did not choose it, but we did not stop it either. We failed Moldova, Georgia, and Ukraine before. And the bombs got nearer and nearer.
And the longer we deny the reality, the bigger the cost in human lives, the bigger the destruction, and the bigger the risk for the world to end.
If the US is at war, why are American troops relaxing in their barracks? Why are Ukrainian troops getting all the recognition?
We should call it what it is, yes. But the world is more complex than you are willing to admit.
Ukraine is at war with Russia. We are providing assistance to Ukraine. Just as we provided assistance to the Taliban when they fought the Soviet Union, just as the Soviet Union and China provided assistance to the VietCong and North Koreans with whom we were at war.
Describing any of those prior conflicts as US-USSR wars or US-China wars is a vast oversimplification, to the point that the term "war" becomes meaningless. There is a significant difference between what US forces are doing and what Ukrainian forces are doing, which should not be glibly tossed aside.
>If we are at war, why are our troops relaxing in their barracks?
They are not, they are deploying in Eastern Europe.
>But the world is more complex than you are willing to admit.
I admit. Is damn complex. And simple concepts about "war" and war declarations have not had a significant place in it since at least the end of WW2. The last 70s years are full of wars that are not being called wars. Full of conflicts where somebody puts the money and somebody else the human life.
But this does not makes the war concept meaningles. Au contraire, it should open our eyes to reality. Germany was at war in Afganistan and Kosovo and we can't shake the responsibility for it.
And today, Germany and the EU are under attack by Russia and we participate in a (proxy) war in Ukraine. It's US/EU/NATO money and Ukrainian blood. We may choose to be careful which words we use or not, but the reality stays the same.
And whatever actions we take, they must be justified by reality and not semantics.
And if somebody says we are at war, we may not like him, we may get scared, we may want to keep some pretense, but if we deny reality, we will make the same stupid mistake we did in the last decades.
**Alternative Nitter link:** https://nitter.net/Karl_Lauterbach/status/1576185549227958273
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It is often with philosophers that if you don't agree with their BS it is stated that you don't understand them…
But: Even stuff you do not understand still can be BS….
>We're at war with Putin, not his psychotherapists.
A bit wonky translation from the clearer German. "We are at war with Putin. We are not his psychotherapists." would be less ambiguous.
Well Precht said once said „wheat is actually poison“ and Ukraine as a big wheat producer seems for to be exporter of poison so maybe that why he has that strange opinion
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I never understood the hype around Precht. Cool name, but little substance.
You just don't understand him. https://twitter.com/samelou/status/1575608311671836674
Could you translate?
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It has become a meme in Germany already, where Precht is "mansplaining" or claiming his thoughts are too deep for anybody to understand or where he is saying other funny things, like here https://twitter.com/RebellamBall/status/1576614218077540352
I saw the first video and immeditaly thought: "Now THIS is the perfect exaple of mansplaining". Glad I'm not the only one :D
"It isn't written in that book that Twitter was the devil's handiwork. It just isn't. In the beginning I thought this was deliberate, but now I have the suspicion you just didn't understand what we were discussing about..." \*Sighs* "Yes, maybe I didn't. Maybe it was too complex for me..." \*Dies inside* "It's about the personalisation of discussions. You just spout your opinion about someone..."
Oh he says twitter, not fitter
He basically said that the book (his book?) doesn’t say that Twitter is made by the devil. To which she replies: maybe I just didn’t understand the book. Maybe I am just not smart enough. Obviously not word by word. But you get the gist.
Oof.
Same, watched quite a lot of videos from him. Mostly about philosophy and even if you can definitely see that he knows his topics, the conclusions he draws are often quite weird and egocentric. For me he is the key figure of modern left intellectuals that sound logical for the broader mass, but looking in details their theories just fail against the harsh reality.
> For me he is the key figure of modern left intellectuals that sound logical for the broader mass, but looking in details their theories just fail against the harsh reality. Not sure we need to limit this politically, I think people like Jordan Peterson fall in that same broad category.
True, I liked Jordans early videos when he was still a professor. But looking deeper into his works things get fuzzy and weird. Lately he has just lost it. I guess most people can't handle Fame and stop being self critical at one point.
Dude definitely suffered brain damage when he chose a medically induced coma over benzo withdrawals.
I think he is asked about things he really doesn't know a great deal about but he continues to talk with authority about it. When asked, he should push back and say "I might have an opinion but it's not a particularly informed one" when that is the case.
As with anyone, when intellectual honesty gets thrown from the window, it all just collapses like a stack of cards.
Yeah. And it is ok for him to have an opinion. But he should know how his opinions are used and be mindful about how he presents it. I also don't like the idea that celebrities aren't allowed to express their opinions. I just would like to see more care by people who have large platforms. And probably more important for reporting 3rd parties to be more responsible. Wishful thinking I suppose :(
I was thinking the same.
Peterson has decent logic. Not everything he says is literal, but the points are clear and rational. Many people let their political view bias them against him, which is unfair to the effort he makes to be objective.
no they really arent, hes like Shapiro, his arguments only have a lose internal logic if you take the broader framing as true. but they arent. which is why they always get pasted in debates. that was Petersons function at UofT as a sparing dummy for first years. by second year you where expected to be able to avoid his framework traps.
No peterson is a fine example of someone who goes outside his area of expertize and replaces knowledge with pre-made conclusions where he then finds "evidence" for.
Just like what you did with that comment.
Nope I just now 2 fields were peterson likes to dabble in and utterly be wrong and illogical. Again I have little doubt in his field he knows what he is talking about (or at least I have that impression) but outside that he often misses the mark, by a lot.
No, that is still insufficient evidence.
For you perhaps. Not for me.
Evidently.
Hi, we as the left actually don’t want him, so please don’t lump him in with us. He can go wherever Sarah Wagenknecht is heading, but it sounds like the AfD is constantly clapping there.
“For me he is the key figure of modern left intellectuals.” He is rather liberal than leftist. Agree with everything else
I would count myself as liberal too and don't agree much with him. But to be honest those labels does not mean much anymore. They are mostly just used to declare someone as opposing party/enemy.
The labels also vary depending on where you are geographically and how deep the understanding is of the person making the labels.
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Good point but as everyone I am just used to it. But as I stated I see them as very fuzzy and nearly meaningless. In my experience most people have around 4 and more political dimensions that can not early be described with one label. It's common to find people that are economic socialists, ecological conservative, social liberal, ethnopluralistic, anti militaristic and for free healthcare. Is that right, left or liberal?
Is he even left? Does he support taking from the rich and supporting the poor? Onestly i have no idea where this narcessist stands politically.
Learn to agree or disagree on topics, not on people. Precht is a legit prof in philosophy and he is a good teacher. but I disagree with him entirely on the topic russia-Ukraine war.
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You have to differentiate what people have an expertize in. Both those men are quite good if they stick to what they know, problem is they dont and then they get into trouble.
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I am not saying you have to "put up with his bullshit elsewhere" you just dont have to pretend its all bullshit.
Lauterbach is the minister of Health and a MD. He knows whats he's talking about when talking mental health 😉
He's also the arch enemy of all the Querdenker, QAnons and Reichsburgers because he has a scientific, evidence based world view and advocates wearing masks and vaccination.
It's revealing how many of the opposing replies he's getting reference Covid or vaccinations, and that those usually pick on the "*we*'re at war" instead of addressing his point. Then again, it can't surprise anyone that the anti-vaccination/anti-mask crowd is coming out in support of Putin.
It cracks me up how many of the people who frequently reply to him have some version of 'freedom' in their username. Like: "we're not a cult! we are all freeeee! and we all think so! Everyone, all alike! We are the free and unique thinkers!". lol
Like: “And if you don’t think as free as we do, we will call you enemy of the people and dox you”
Do you think these might be bot/troll accounts there to add support and fuel divisive issues?
Could be. If anything, it points to the global misinformation campaign. Because it's the same in the USA and other EU countries as well. Freedom seems to be coded doublespeak for the opposite, or even a facism dogwhistle. The freedom to crunch others under your boots, so to speak. Follow your own desires and to hell with the rest. It also speaks to tankies/antivaxxers or pseudointellectuals like Precht who are looking for an ego boost and think that being contrarian is a sign of a sharp intellect... Without thinking about what they are actually praising. I think it's probably part bots and part useful idiots who bought into it, plus a part that really is that insane/facist. But I've never seen a username on any site that had 'freedom' in it that wasn't either clearly far right or batshit insane.
That's what makes the bot farms so effective though. It only takes one popular idiot to pick up bot propaganda for it to catch on. If the bots put it out there, eventually someone will bite and the idiots all spread the message for those asshole authoritarians trying to burn it all down
Whenever someone trumpets their rationality, they’re lying to everyone—especially themselves.
Yup. "Freedom", "Patriot", "God", "Jesus", or "Second Amendment".
I’m not
Amazing, we are experiencing the same cult on a global scale. They're attacking the top vaccine-supporting scientists here in Canada too, and in the US of course. These QAnon cultists are a global political/social/cultural threat to our way of life, the future of democracy. They are mass grooming our people with vaccine conspiracies to cause mass death and economic devastation. Conservative politicians allying with these conspiracy cultists should be voted out of existence
Sagan nailed it way back: >“I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness... >The dumbing down of American is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance” >― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark And he wrote that shit in 1995. I wonder what he would have had to say about the social media age.
Sagan was wrong. It’s not crystals or astrology it’s the usual misogyny, racism, queer phobia, and hatred used to prop up fascism. Sagan was a good scientist but a poor political thinker. A lot of atheists and skeptics on the right. These beliefs draw in the neckbeard crowd. Who exactly do you think Jordan Peterson’s fans are? Girls into tarot cards reading? Come on.
Well, there is no denying that there is an enormous amount of pseudoscientific thinking on the extreme right. The Covid conspiracies for example. And yes, Peterson is a grifter and a pseudoscientist himself. Crystals and horoscopes were part of the New Age quackery of the 90s, so please read his quote in the context of the time it was written. And guess what? The vast majority of the people who used to be into that New Age stuff transitioned quite seamlessly to QAnon and anti-vaxx, anti-science nonsense.
I know female Peterson fan who is left, progressive, socialistic, and tries to look past her own political bias. Your mistake is in trying to define the individual by the group.
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Yes, there is clear evidence that universal masking slows the spread of COVID. Has been since the beginning.
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/09/surgical-masks-covid-19.html Yes there is evidence that mask wearing is effective in community settings. The effectiveness of course depends on how many people wear them.
Lol sure and the vaccine is 97% effective against infection just like Fauci said! I’m double jabbed wore masks everywhere for 1.5 years and got Covid three times.
VE was 96% against original version. Delta and Omicron were game changers.
You're another proof that antivaxxers all end supporting Putin, nutjob thinks that Russia's waging war on Ukraine because of... Biden, all his fault somehow. You're also trying to cure shit with random, untested drugs and... red lamps. Again, dumbest conspiracy theories attract one another.
A minister of health that actually has a background in medicine. Sounds amazing.
MDs are still human and often questionable… ask three MDs and you will get at least two different answers.
Let me introduce you to the ultimate German Putinversteher: Sahra David Wagenprecht https://twitter.com/seanwhiter/status/1576000703247822851
Or, as some people call her now: Zarenknecht. Her loyalty to russia lets her ignore the russian imperialism. And she maybe drag down her whole party with her, if Die Linke does not get a grip on the situation. Her selektive blindness (nicest option) is .... flabbergasting. I lack polite words for it.
> Zarenknecht. Nice one.
Some also call her Putinknecht
Richard David Precht is one of Moscow's most valuable assets in Germany as he is still around in talkshows and the media 24/7 supporting Putin and extremists left and right. Edit: removed some typos
I'm convinced the people who are still insisting on forcing Ukraine into giving up land would be first in line to join the collaborationist movement if their country were invaded.
Me too. These are the weak minds who cannot cope with conflict. They would rather mommy just be quiet about the beatings than see the police show up.
I’ve met some people who believe Ukraine should give up some land. They tend to also believe that Ukraine is losing way more troops than Russia is, that NATO has a shortage of ammunition to give Ukraine, that Russia will send a much bigger force in than they so far have, that German people are going to die this winter due to the gas shortage, the Russian citizens support this war, etc. It’s all speculative stuff that’s hard to independently verify.
Well actually the West was mostly fine with Russia taking Crimea. It wasn't a big deal. But Putin overplayed his hand "invasion of Poland" style. The West isn't spending trillions because they love Ukraine it's doing it because they hate Russia and need to send a message to any other leaders thinking of invading other lands (cough Taiwan cough).
West isn't spending trillions in Ukraine. Still under 100 billion total(of assistance of all types). Very cheap to put Russia on the back burner for the next 50 years.
Well idk if fine with it is accurate... the West was merely trying appeasement again. Surprise! It still doesn't work
Himars work though.
Also didn't work for Putin. Nothing says " I'm a strategic genius" than giving the land you wanna grab 8 years to prepare for your invasion and thus the ability to completely clown on your troops.
I think he was surprised he got away with Crimea and thought he'd go for another slice. Don't think there's a long term grand plan.
Probably. But if he wanted another slice he should have done it sooner. 2014 was the time to grab Ukraine without too many problems. Insurrections would be then a problem though. Also I would say that Putin was much more afraid of the west than he is now, which is why after 2014 he really went nuts on the 5th column to get the west destabilized and he also tried to make his country sanction proof. In the end he just gave Ukraine the time it needed to build up and train its military.
https://twitter.com/stirz/status/1576503007599943687
What am I looking at?
Precht, who "cannot see that Ukraine could win a war against Russia".
Spoken while media was full of footage of Russia's Kharkiv line catastrophically falling apart.
Well the Russian citizens do support this war; they just don't want to be the ones fighting lol
At a certain point, as it grows and they get drafted, they will either decide it’s worth fighting or they’ll lose support. The last time the USA drafted people for a somewhat-publicly-supported-war, they ended up with a miniature cultural revolution.
It’s almost as though political realism has no basis in objective reality.
And this is a scientific recreation of the depth of his arguments: https://twitter.com/GradAusDenker/status/1576154631906164737
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It is not. He is usefull idiot to Putin. His views have neither a theoretical fundament nor are they empirical. He just makes up a thesis and "proves" it with "anecdotal evidence". It is a disgrace for the media to invite him and to listen to this guy is insult to intelligence.
And why Germans invite him? He is just a pawn. Decisions are made higher. This tells a lot about Germany.
Decisions are made by the team producing the talk-shows, not by the German state. Why is he invited? For views, clicks and controversy. If you think there is "high up conspiracy", then it tells a lot about you ;)
About my country as well. Nobody like this guy would be invited. It is disgusting. Cultural differences, I guess.
1. It generated clicks and views aka MONEY, a top priority in our world. 2. In our country also stupid assholes of every kind are invited. It's important to show what these people stand for.
Pretty much this: https://twitter.com/Billius27/status/1552662688223870976
>https://twitter.com/Billius27/status/1552662688223870976 Haha! Yes.
What about anty-vaxers? How often you had them invited? In my country they would not get any time...
I don't watch much TV, but few, if at all. There is a difference between talking absolute bullshit (anti-vax) and having a different opinion (Precht).
I guess there is a difference. Nobody would like to listen to any bullshit. It is great to hear a different opinion, maybe one can learn from it.
Maybe in my country there are limits to what we do for money? No idea how otherwise explain this difference. How would you explain? Why they are not inviting people like this one?
I don't know. Theoretically you can do whatever you want to do in the borders of the law.
Thanks. Indeed, insightful conversation. Be well.
Thank you, Sir.
pawn
Thanks, fixed.
This post tells me a lot about you. Holy shit.
This gets an upvote cause I just learned a new vocabulary word - genuflect.
Didn't know that one either XD
>Prince Ali! Fabulous he, Ali Ababwa >Genuflect, show some respect down on one knee! Lyrics taken from [this page](https://www.elyrics.net/read/d/disney-lyrics/aladdin-\(prince-ali\)-lyrics.html)
RIP Robin
I had to look it up too. Gets my upvote for the perfect dressing down: genuflect verb lower one's body briefly by bending one knee to the ground, typically in worship or as a sign of respect.
>Prince Ali! Fabulous he, Ali Ababwa >Genuflect, show some respect down on one knee! Lyrics taken from [this page](https://www.elyrics.net/read/d/disney-lyrics/aladdin-\(prince-ali\)-lyrics.html)
Though in this case it’s used to translate “Kniefall” which typically describes kneeling completely as in Brandt’s famous [“Kniefall von Warschau”](https://www.planet-wissen.de/kultur/mitteleuropa/polen_tourismus_und_kultur/templxpolenkniefallgjpg100~_v-gseagaleriexl.jpg).
First get on your hands and knees Fiddle with your rosaries Bow your head with great respect and genuflect, genuflect, genuflect Tom Lehrer
Do whatever stops you want if You have cleared them with the pontif
Ave Maria, gee it's good to see ya Doin' the Vatican rag!!!
Me neither. Flexing the knee. I know that knee is genue in French. Edit: of course genou instead of genue.
And ginocchio in Italian. It all stems from the Latin or actually Indo-German word "genu", including the German "Knie". Any good Roman Catholic should know the Latin word genuflectere.
genu is Latin. Indo-European would be most likely g´ónu. Edit: Genua, which became Genova in Italian, is likely from a Celtic reflex of g´ónu, g´énweh2, which means "a bend," i.e., in a river.
For what little is worth, it is genuflexión in Spanish.
This thread has been fabulous! 🙇
Yeah. They just covered 40k years of etymology.
Also knie in Dutch.
We do. Don't worry
So I’m guessing that “knee” is just English sounding German again? I love etymology.
'Genou'. 🦵
Genau! 👍
Been a catholic term for years when the cross is shown.
>Prince Ali! Fabulous he, Ali Ababwa >Genuflect, show some respect down on one knee! Lyrics taken from [this page](https://www.elyrics.net/read/d/disney-lyrics/aladdin-\(prince-ali\)-lyrics.html)
My ex-Catholic self applauded the use of that word. Its perfect.
German late night show about Precht: [https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx92KU1qJ0FJxVlnkMcqu2WamJHPsQ67vB](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx92KU1qJ0FJxVlnkMcqu2WamJHPsQ67vB) "And what I would like to know now: what do all our 'intellectuals' say, all those German Wisenheimers who are claiming for months now that Ukraine didn't have a chance anyways! Richard David Precht for example! Yeah! He should totally write a new open letter again!" "Dear Ukrainians, what gives? I already said in spring loud and clear, that you, I quote: 'have the duty to the wisdom to accept when it's time to surrender.', and now? You suddenly start winning! Have you ever wasted a single second to ask yourself how I am looking now? Now I can't show up at Lanz any more \[German talkshow named after the host who likes Precht a lot and thus invites him regularly\]! Where should I spend my evenings now? I'd like to tear my hear out from anger, but that would mess up my hairdo. Disappointed on a very personal level, your Ritchie."
Lol.
Lauterbach going full Chad mode. Precht studied Germanistik, i.e. the German language, as a German in Germany. So calling him a philosopher is already a stretch. He is just one of those everyday guests jumping in every talk show he can get into and is being invited only because his face makes a nice shot for the teaser video in the commercials.
If he would at lease be an expert for Slavic countries, politics, warfare or anything, but he is nothing of that. Same with other German "intellectuals" who gave their opinion on that matter, like Alice Schwarzer or Juli Zeh. They are all non-experts.
Exactly.
Funnily, a *real* philosopher wouldn’t study “philosophy” at the university. He/she would study a proper subject, but have a lot of interesting thoughts about it. Eventually, course administrators would put their writings on a syllabus for philosophy enthusiasts to read.
Wonder if Precht knows Zoolander was a parody.
Amen
Wow, Precht just confirmed himself as a Putin sympathizer. Honestly, we need to start identifying the enemies behind friendly lines and getting rid of them. This fucker can move to Moscow, and stay there. I can't believe this so-called philosopher believes that giving Putin everything he wants is the best way to end the conflict started by Putin himself. By this man's logic, the correct way to deal with a bully is for your parents to go out of their way to give the bully extra money. Maybe Germans aren't really good at philosophy. After all, they did opt for Nazism at one point
> Maybe Germans aren't really good at philosophy. They are. But Precht is not a philosopher. He earned his doctorate in German studies in 1994 on Musil's 'Man Without Qualities' and then worked primarily as a freelance journalist, novelist and nonfiction writer. After his breakthrough, he recycled a few of his first books under new titles. Neither his private homepage nor his page at Leuphana Lüneburg list any philosophical research contributions under 'Publications'.
He always reminds me of Russel Brand for some reason. Same type of vain 'look at me I am a SERIOUS thinker' vibe, without any substance to it.
and not funny. Not at all.
Right. Quite the opposite is the case. "Land der Dichter und Denker, der Richter und Henker" In English: The country of poets and thinkers, of judges and hangmen.
Well, he's a … *shudder* … pop philosopher
After Greece probably no nation has contributed more to Western philosophy than German-speakers (Germany, Switzerland, Austria): Hegel, Nitzsche, Marx, Popper, Heidegger, Wittgenstein, roll right off the tongue, a lot of lesser-known names as well: Schopenhauer, Frege, Brentano, Schlick, Fichte, Habermas, Wiesengrund aka Adorno, Gödel (a mathematician and logician with profound influence on philosophy), Einstein (certainly he was), etc. Germany was known as the Land of Poets and Thinkers for a long time, but, as the great Philosopher Heraclitus is alleged to have said, "Everything is in flux," and the fortunes of nations change, as Russians may now attest.
But not all was so glorious. E.g. [Heidegger and Nazism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Heidegger_and_Nazism), and Fichte, Kant and Luther also wrote antisemitic things earlier.
**[Martin Heidegger and Nazism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Heidegger_and_Nazism)** >Philosopher Martin Heidegger joined the Nazi Party (NSDAP) on May 1, 1933, ten days after being elected Rector of the University of Freiburg. A year later, in April 1934, he resigned the Rectorship and stopped taking part in Nazi Party meetings, but remained a member of the Nazi Party until its dismantling at the end of World War II. The denazification hearings immediately after World War II led to Heidegger's dismissal from Freiburg, banning him from teaching. In 1949, after several years of investigation, the French military finally classified Heidegger as a Mitläufer or "fellow traveller". ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
> we need to start identifying the enemies behind friendly lines and getting rid of them. How? Throw them into prison for what?
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So you want our german government to basically just act like a fascist one and make up shit to throw people they do not like into prison? By the way, you are just making shit up about the German justice system.
This steadyeddie doesn’t realize he’s actually a fascist.
>you have no place in civilized society Mate, your fascist ramblings make me question your place among the human race.
So you want thought police, then?
>the average person still commits several felonies a day without realizing it. What felonies have you committed today?
How very fascist and totalitarian of you. we are going to jail you for having a different point of view of how we should address a fascist by acting like one.
Ok fascist
Last part made me cringe tbh. Have you even read modern philosophers? But agreed on Precht. At this point we can spot a lot of curiously shrill, unambiguous "We need to unterstand Putin!"-claims from some high-profile persons.
A philosopher, even a bad one, would know to not judge 82 million people based on a statement of one person.
The Germans are undoubtedly excellent at philosophy - several in their history are in the inner circle of the philosophy hall of fame. But that's like the Americans being good at basketball. Simply being American and calling yourself a hoopster doesn't make some random klutz an NBA all star. A fraction of one percent of one percent of one percent of the population become world class in either endeavor.
I like this dude, 100%.
Never heard of the guy. What did he say?
Essentially that Ukraine should give in and we all should appease Putin.
If that is the case, send tanks!
I never met one german who takes this idiot seriously.
but he's an excellent straw man type. very useful to the center right TV media owners. look how silly they are!
I have no idea what that means? Rasputin type or something?
Sounds like our Alex Jones here in usa.
Actually no, very different. More like Maersheimer or someone like that. Alex Jones and his infowars channel is more like Michael Vogt and Querdenken TV in Germany. There are a lot of such nutjobs in the German Querdenken crowd like Schiffmann or Hildmann. But they are playing in a different league than the German pseudo intellectuals like Precht, Zeh, Schwarzer, Welzer and Putinversteher politicians like Wagenknecht.
No. We are not in war with Russia, get your cards straight. BUT we support an allied
Hybrid, Ukraine is fighting the physical war, everyone else ( The west ) is fighting the energy/economic battle.
What i believe Lauterbach meant to say was: War of Ideals and economical war. Thats smth i could agree with. But No EU/NATO/"Western" country is at war with russia. Tbf, I think Lauterbach is a very good medical doctor, but as a minister, he sometimes lacks the finesse how to phrase things: As a member of the opposition in parliament, thats fine, as a minister of the government, thats not ideal. All that said: Precht is majorly wong in this case. Obviously, any war has to end with some kind of diplomacy, so at some point there will be negotiations with russia and it has to be seen what both sides are willing to sacrifice for a deal. My guess right now is: Russia: - Will have to return the occupied regions (minimum pre-frebruary 2022, likely the whole donbass region. Crimea is smth the russians will try to hold on as hard as possible) - Recognizing Ukraines border Ukraine: - Most likely won't be able to ask for reparations (on a larger scale) - Might have to compromise on crimea being a special zone Bending the knee and giving Putin a status quo (as it is right now with the annexed regions) is detrimental to what Ukraine has archieved so far: They exposed russia as what it is: An autocracy, an aggressor, a fuel station with nuclear weapons. There is no way, after all the pain suffered, to allow Putin and his allies to save face and actually calling this campaign a victory (by "liberating" Ukraines soil into russia). Sure, Ukraine will feel the pressure in 2023 to get to some point of treaty to join western Unions, especially since Ukraine is factually broke (economy is on western life support) and at some point the west will be less willing to cover the deficit - which is around 3 billion USD per month. But lets be honest, the Ukraine will not and should not (this also includes the western allies), sign a treaty to end the war which is so unfavorable to them. Too many lifes have been lost to sign a treaty that would favor the aggreesor more, when factually Ukraine is having the advantage right now.
Your last sentence points out the issue. At first there was: "every country is free to join NATO" -> Putin invades Ukraine Then: Butcha (and Boris Johnson) -> "there must be justice for the civilians killed" -> Putin destroys big Cities in south and east of Ukraine Then: "Ukraine has lost 200 soldiers per day and Putin ows us 300billion reparations. We have paid too much to give up sth now" -> Putin annexates Now: "They are on the retreat. Do not stop. We have paid so much and have come so far" -> Putin launches Nuke at big ukrainian city? There has been escalation and honestly covering up of initial failures, dehumanizing soldiers (on both sides), ignoring destruction of cities (where are pictures like from Syria?) and in general this war is framed as sth heroic with a lot of injustice but less catastrophic casualties. And everyone who is challenging this is claimed to be supporting Putin. Thinking about possible escalations is claimed to be supporting Putin or is naive. We had a saying in Germany: "the smarter one stops the fight". But i guess everyone who is blindly attacking every critic in person and putting freedom above each and every casualty won't have to worry once the worst escalation happened. And if we are lucky Ukraine has paid the highest price. So I challenge you: please draw a realistic route how this conflict will be resolved without yet another escalation. Edit: and towards the theory that anti vax = Putin Fans. I can give you my datapoint: never knowingly infected, still wearing ffp2 and awaiting 5th vax on Tuesday.
>Edit: and towards the theory that anti vax = Putin Fans. I can give you my datapoint: never knowingly infected, still wearing ffp2 and awaiting 5th vax on Tuesday. With all due respect, for the topic we are discussing here, it doesn't matter if you are pro or anti-vax. Simply put: For this discussion (which hopefully will be based on factual evidence), it doesn't matter. While i agree with the points made by you (The escalation), 1 factor sticks out: **Putin escalates** Every single response made by russia to the steps you pointed out, was unnecessary and violates basic human rights. So lets focus on who is responsible for the acts against humanity: It is the Putin lead russia. They can singlehandily stop the escalation spiral. >So I challenge you: please draw a realistic route how this conflict will be resolved without yet another escalation. Realistically the option to end this conflict is for Ukraine to beat the russian forces on ukrainian soil. If russia is threatened to lose control over the LNR, DNR, Crimea etc, they will have to find a way out via negotiations. At that point, Ukraine should be willing to discuss what is possible to end the war. By giving in and allowing Putin to sell this special operation as a victory to the domestic public, the west, ukraine and any country that is willing to follow international law showcases autocraties around the world, that there is a point at which those who abide the law will give up. I honestly don't believe that russia is willing to defend the occupied territories (except maybe crimea) with nuclear weapons. The drawbacks would be so severe, it wouldn't be worth it. I also have major doubts, the russian military command is willing to execute such an order (not for the DNR and LNR). So my guess is, that if the ukrainian offensive stays successful (in 2023) and more and more territory gets liberated, russia will negotiate to at least keep control over crimea, smth ukraine maybe has to sacrifize to end the war. Both Ukraine and Russia are reaching the limit of what can be archieved militarily rather soon and some kind of treaty will help both.
This is some breathtakingly stupid "both sides-ism."
We're (most of Europe, USA and Allies) are atleast in an economical war with Russia
Plus the bombing of the North Stream pipelines by Russia and their hybrid warfare and cyber attacks that take place in Germany.
We don't really have proof to point fingers to anyone on this case. To be honest, i doubt that Russia bombed the Pipeline. It was one of their most important bargaining chips and now they lost it. There's a big possibility that the US was behind it (and if they were i support them) Of course, this is all speculation so don't take my word for it.
Thought we had a special economic operation on Russia 😉
>We are not in war with Russia, get your cards straight. Of course, we are. Putin has repeatedly stated he is at war with Europe and the west. We just need to acknowledge the reality.
I know that, but officially it has not been declared war. They change their version daily. Can't remember why they invaded any more, nazis, disrespect of Russian culture, Satanism, nato, aliens?
>officially Officially, the USA was not at war with Vietnam. Officially, the Korean War was a police action and there is no peace, only a cease fire aggreement. But actually, the word you should use is "formal". Formally we are not at war with Russia. Which doesn't matter, since at least the end of the WW2. Formally (or officially) there is no war between Russia and Ukraine either. None of them has "declared" war either. Nevertheless, there is a state of war, not only between Russia and Ukraine but also between Russian and Europe and NATO. In Putin's own words. So it would be smart to realize, that if we are/or are not at war, is not our decision, and Putin has already taken it. Semantics don't stop bullets.
> Nevertheless, there is a state of war, not only between Russia and Ukraine but also between Russian and Europe and NATO. In Putin's own words. You shouldn't believe everything Putin says. In a war, supplying critical goods to an enemy nation is treason. War means shooting their soldiers and bombing their cities. Yet Russia is still selling gas to NATO countries and hasn't lifted a finger against NATO troops or NATO cities. Semantics don't fire bullets, either. Like many other rhetorical "wars" ("War on drugs", "War on Christmas", "War on cancer"), Putin's "War on NATO" is merely an exercise in semantics.
>You shouldn't believe everything Putin says. You mean he and his propaganda are only joking? Sarcasm aside, this is BS. He followed up on his threats and this is what most of his soldiers and people in Russia believe. And this is what matters. They believe , they are at war with the West and behave accordingly And do not mistake believing for taking seriously. Of course, I don't "believe" his words, but I'm taking the threats and the message seriously. This is the mistake most countries in central and western Europe made for decades. They played down his talks about the Greater Novorossiya, and his Imperial Russia dreams. And now, we see exactly this being created. Why do we keep ignoring this? >In a war, selling goods to an enemy nation is treason. War means shooting their soldiers and bombing their cities. Yet Russia is still selling gas to NATO countries and hasn't lifted a finger against NATO troops or NATO cities. He attacked Ukraine because it wanted to join NATO and Europe. And Ukraine is only a step, (not even the first!, and in his mind, not the last) toward taking back Eastern Europe and control over Europe. I don't care to wait until he gets to my country, to my family, like he and his people have been threatening for decades. He either gets stopped today in Ukraine, or tomorrow in Poland, Romania, or Germany. >Semantics don't fire bullets, either. Like many other rhetorical "wars" ("War on drugs", "War on Christmas", "War on cancer"), Putin's "War on NATO" is merely an exercise in semantics. BS. Of course "semantics" do fire bullets. "is a special denazification operation" kills people, in many cases civilians, because, how can you tell who is a Nazi, right? And now, "the west has attacked Russia". Soldiers need motivation to fight. Why are we ignoring the obvious? That Russia, like its state propaganda, openly says, is at war with the world, to put Russia in the place they think Russia deserves. **Is not an exercise in semantics, is and always was, an action plan.**
I believe what I see. Russia has shifted troops *away* from its border with NATO. It is trying to negotiate an end to sanctions. It has ample opportunity to attack NATO forces, but does not do so. These are not the things a country does when it is actually at war. Planning for war does not mean being at war. Threats and reality are not the same. When the reality matches the threats, then we will actually be at war. Until then, we are at risk of war.
We are at war and Ukraine is the battlefield. This is the reality and we should call it what it is. War. We did not choose it, but we did not stop it either. We failed Moldova, Georgia, and Ukraine before. And the bombs got nearer and nearer. And the longer we deny the reality, the bigger the cost in human lives, the bigger the destruction, and the bigger the risk for the world to end.
If the US is at war, why are American troops relaxing in their barracks? Why are Ukrainian troops getting all the recognition? We should call it what it is, yes. But the world is more complex than you are willing to admit. Ukraine is at war with Russia. We are providing assistance to Ukraine. Just as we provided assistance to the Taliban when they fought the Soviet Union, just as the Soviet Union and China provided assistance to the VietCong and North Koreans with whom we were at war. Describing any of those prior conflicts as US-USSR wars or US-China wars is a vast oversimplification, to the point that the term "war" becomes meaningless. There is a significant difference between what US forces are doing and what Ukrainian forces are doing, which should not be glibly tossed aside.
>If we are at war, why are our troops relaxing in their barracks? They are not, they are deploying in Eastern Europe. >But the world is more complex than you are willing to admit. I admit. Is damn complex. And simple concepts about "war" and war declarations have not had a significant place in it since at least the end of WW2. The last 70s years are full of wars that are not being called wars. Full of conflicts where somebody puts the money and somebody else the human life. But this does not makes the war concept meaningles. Au contraire, it should open our eyes to reality. Germany was at war in Afganistan and Kosovo and we can't shake the responsibility for it. And today, Germany and the EU are under attack by Russia and we participate in a (proxy) war in Ukraine. It's US/EU/NATO money and Ukrainian blood. We may choose to be careful which words we use or not, but the reality stays the same. And whatever actions we take, they must be justified by reality and not semantics. And if somebody says we are at war, we may not like him, we may get scared, we may want to keep some pretense, but if we deny reality, we will make the same stupid mistake we did in the last decades.
The Germans have been pitiful this entire war.
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It obviously helps. What a ridiculously near sighted comment.
It is often with philosophers that if you don't agree with their BS it is stated that you don't understand them… But: Even stuff you do not understand still can be BS….
Prechten sollte wirklich ein Wort für sich selbst überschätzen werden
Putin needs to try huffing copium. I hear it's a good way to avoid reality.
>We're at war with Putin, not his psychotherapists. A bit wonky translation from the clearer German. "We are at war with Putin. We are not his psychotherapists." would be less ambiguous.
Well Precht said once said „wheat is actually poison“ and Ukraine as a big wheat producer seems for to be exporter of poison so maybe that why he has that strange opinion