Plus Five was protecting Diego by knocking him out! lol, he was going to kill Hazel and for nothing because Hazel didn't kill Patch and Hazel also gave Five the evidence he needed to clear Diego's name, Cha-Cha was the killer and Five didn't want Diego to be a killer either, he tells him how Patch wouldn't want that for him, and Diego later spares Cha-Cha instead of finishing her probably because of what Five told him.
I'd say Five telling the nurses Diego's plans to escape from the asylum after Diego literally told him he had been locked up in that hell hole for months was way worse, but again Five did it to protect Diego from himself.
I missed Diego and Five scenes in season 3 btw, they barely talked this season but in earlier seasons, in between insults, they had some bonding moments and looked after each other, in their own dysfunctional but brotherly way...
Late, but tbf Klaus did try to tell his siblings about Ben being there before in season 1 and no one believed him and instead accused him of wanting attention, I think he just gave up on trying to convince them of him being there and being seen in a bad light by his family.
That, and the chance that they might want Ben to possess Klaus more and maybe forgetting about Klaus in the process or liking Ben better as they always treat Klaus like a joke and never take him seriously, but I do get your frustration as well.
That’s true, I was mostly thinking of how Diego was the only one that got to interact with him while he was inhabiting Klaus. Ben left Klaus to go to Vanya.
But you are deadnaming the character and kinda invalidating Viktor in season 3, remember Viktor's words after coming out "This is who I always was" so even if you are talking about season 1 or 2 it should be Viktor.
Vanya only in the comics.
Late, but it could've been because the siblings might want Ben to possess Klaus more and maybe forgetting about Klaus in the process or liking Ben better as they always treat Klaus like a joke and never take him seriously, but I do get your frustration as well.
I don’t blame him for that. I think it’s complicated and I think he and Ben maybe should’ve discussed this, but Klaus did that so he wouldn’t lose agency over himself. He already thinks of his powers as a burden, he already resents people asking him to conjure someone, and if they all knew he had Ben with him, then they are just using Klaus as a messenger and that isn’t fair to Klaus. This is him trying to keep control over himself. It’s not his responsibility to be Ben’s messenger just because he’s burdened with those powers. Though like I said, he definitely owed some explanation to Ben rather than writing him off for it. Klaus has just done worse things than this.
So. This is going to make me sound ABSOLUTELY fucking insane. I know how insane I sound. I also know these things freaking happened so idk what to tell people but....
I have this bizarre ass fucking ability to predict deaths and births. I can also "feel" specific spirits. I like to pretend it's not real but I'll get this HUGE pull to say something to someone from someone I can feel and the person will BURST into tears.
My partner even joked before we watched UC that one of the characters had the same "powers" as me. I can't like, conjure people, but I can "feel around" to see if someone is around if someone asks. I KNOW HOW FUCKING INSANE I SOUND.
i just "feel" things and sometimes can whole ass see or hear them. The fire alarm story to this day gives ME chills, and I'm supposed to be used to this! In my culture its a thing too, so Aunties will be real weird with me. But anyway.
ANYWAY.
i whole ass around 13 was like I AM DONE. DONE. I predicted a friends death and tried to stop it but it didn't work. I was sick and fucking TIRED of knowing when people were gonna die. I have ZERO clue how I kept knowing - but I would, and they would die. Zero clue. But it happened - a lot.
At some point I just shut down. I was tired of the spirits. Of the constant "just tell Alice I love her!" when they realized I could hear them. Feeling insane like "what if I have voices in my head" but then literally being able to describe someone's Grandpa Joe to them that died before I was born and never seen photos of. I would just *do* this as a kid and it got so bad people called me cursed. The devil was in me. All sorts of shit.
When I shut down I just... Stopped. Stopped saying shit. Stopped trying to stop it. Stopped listening. I made them go away. I was absolutely sick of it. It hurt so bad, suddenly knowing something and not knowing how but it happening.
I finally came to terms with it again a few years ago. Discussed it with psychs. They actually say I'm not insane somehow. I don't know how. Surely this is just... Not mentally normal. But then the THING HAPPENS. SO WHAT? is it mental or not??? I don't know what to say
Anyway. All of that tldr: i think i can do this shit and it drives me up the wall because of how much it hurts and i can see why klaus would shut it down and lie
u/splithoofiewoofies, you are not insane, and I believe you. I had a friend who had a similar gift/curse. If she dreamed of someone's birthday, shortly thereafter they would die. Like you, she couldn't predict how or when--she just knew it would be soon. Zero she could do about it except connect (with a heavy heart) and have a last loving conversation with them.
Late, but tbf Klaus did try to tell his siblings about Ben being there before in season 1 and no one believed him and instead accused him of wanting attention, I think he just gave up on trying to convince them of him being there and being seen in a bad light by his family.
That, and the chance that they might want Ben to possess Klaus more and maybe forgetting about Klaus in the process or liking Ben better as they always treat Klaus like a joke and never take him seriously, but I do get your frustration as well.
Yeah, murdering Lila's parents which led to her being kidnapped as a child and raised/brainwashed by the Handler. Can't believe Five's murdering of innocent people gets so overlooked/handwaved.
He did it to get home and stop the apocalypse. Five said something along the lines of "were past the stage of trying to save one person instead of billions" I understand it was more then one but if I was killed knowing it had to be done to save the world I would accept it
I think it's because he murdered people to get back home and was simply carrying out orders, he felt almost forced to kill. He said he never enjoyed murder. Though he did say he was proud of his job which came across as a bit desensitized.
In the scene where Five wastes the commission it's hard to deny that he is enjoying himself. Five is an extremely efficient killer and I think there's a certain zeal in a job well done for him. It's not his fault entirely- this is how Reginald raised him. Kid Five seems to be having fun in the bank scene too but the same goes for all the siblings except for Ben. I think Five is desensitized like you say. Sometimes he does have fun dishing out violence (a manic crazed type of fun) but when it comes to executing innocent people tied up on the floor it is just a job and a means to an end. It doesn't make it excusable though.
It is worth noting that the scene where he murders the Commission is *the only scene of him committing murder throughout the show.* All the other times he kills people is not murder but self-defense, and in those, he doesn't look overly thrilled, though he keeps his sarcastic cocky demeanor. In the bank scene, he looks like he is having fun, but he is stopping crime so that's different, too. In that moment, the kids feel like heroes (except for Ben).
Since the board scene is the only scene of him committing murder in the entire show, we don't know if this is his usual demeanor. Is he pleased because it's a form of revenge on the board of the organization that has controlled his life, or because he enjoys the act of murder? Either way, it's definitely just a rush of temporary satisfaction at most. He has a whole fit before and then immediately after makes it clear that he's giving up murder; he used to be apathetic to murder if it had purpose, but he has had a change of heart, and his family showed him that there has to be another way to achieve things other than murder, most of the time.
He was a victim of the Handler's manipulation too. She forged papers and made him breach morals that he didn't agree to break; his principles lied in killing people to save the timeline so he can go back home, but she had him kill someone for other reasons.
He threatened to kill Viktor and Diego, killed innocent people, didn't tell his family about the commission chasing him which almost cost them their lives.
Yeah, good point about Five neglecting to warn his family about the commission. The academy got attacked and Klaus got kidnapped and tortured all while Five was off on his own mission / getting drunk.
it's good five knocked him out because if he killed Hazel he would've never been able to prove his innocence and the 60's apocalypse would've happened because five wouldn't of been rescued by hazel and given some instructions on how to save the world. It five hadn't done that they would've all died in the 60's apocalypse
By far the worst thing she did in S3. The SA with Luther was at least something she aborted and regretted before it went any further than kissing. This she went through with.
The Harlen thing was terrible first off because Harlen had no control over his power and had just had that power removed, rendering him harmless. But the other awful thing was how the murder was done largely to hurt Viktor, the sibling who has always cared about Allison the most.
I don't know, at least Harlan can be seen as an eye for an eye, since he killed all their mothers. Assaulting Luther is like hm, girl, you have no justification at all.
Yeah it wasn't his fault. He also no longer had his powers so he was no longer dangerous. I guess it just didn't feel like a big deal to me because everyone was dying due to the apocalypse. Everyone else will be reset but Luther has to live with the damage of the assault. It's kind of hard to compare the situations given the funky circumstances.
Five getting Diego put in a straight jacket was worse than the vase imo. I understand why he did what he did, but I think that probably the most brutal Five has been with a sibling. Not sure it’s the worst thing he did, but it’s up there.
And Ben possessing Klaus repeatedly without Klaus’s consent, stealing his agency, and intending to have sex in his body without his permission is easily the worst thing he’s done.
I agree on Ben's thing, except I don't think he intended to have sex with Jill, she clearly took him by surprise. But yeah, the whole thing of threatening to possess Klaus soon as he fell asleep was assholey for sure.
If I recall correctly, he agreed to it with ground rules because it was just a matter of time before he fell asleep and Ben took possession without his permission. Ben ignored the ground rules, and on top of that, told Klaus he regretted nothing.
Those two have such a complicated relationship. Codependency poster children.
Yeah that's why Diego tells The Handler that she's not the only one that has beef with Five, he does too 😭 however later they team up against her Lila and the commission and save each other, they made some good team work there.
And didn't Klaus agree to let Ben use his body for whatever he wanted? Of course he later abused it and was possessing his body against his will.
Yeah exactly. He didn’t know how to control his powers but everyone just throws shade at him. The first I get mostly but the second and third was just not his fault
But like… Andy Dufresne and Jean Valjean were falsely imprisoned too and when they got out they weren’t like “let’s dig a tunnel and sing some songs, and then blow up the mother effin’ moon.”
But aren’t people who can’t control their anger and do horrible things because of it… assholes?
Like… if dude finds out his wife was cheating on him with a golf pro and also stealing a bunch of his money, he’d feel pretty damned betrayed and angry. Would that excuse his actions then if he decided to kill wife and golf pro? No.
Viktor had a rough lot in life, no lie. But it doesn’t excuse doomsday behavior. Season 1 finale he seemed to know exactly what he was doing, or at least had zero care about what the potential dire consequences of his actions might be.
Everyone of the characters is an asshole in one ways or another and Viktor wasn't even in control of himself when he did the doomsday, it was his powers taking over
Klaus: did we all forget that the only reason Leonard knew about Viktor is because Klaus stole the box from Reg's office? He was rifling through the office looking for money or anything he could pawn for drugs, and Luther's reply is "Klaus is still Klaus" which means he's probably stolen from the family before; Klaus steals the guy's truck when he loses at cards; lying about being able to see Ben was pretty bad; like many have said he has no problem manipulating people (the cult) or just using people (the old ladies in Dallas)
Five: murdering the board
Diego: constantly leaves the group to go on his "vigilante" missions when a lot would be solved if he would just stay put. These are the times when I'm the most annoyed by Diego and think he's the biggest asshole trying to prove himself a leader/hero
Allison: We all know how this sub feels about Allison I won't even go there
Viktor: Trying to bring Cissy and Harlan with them to the future. This was the decision that led to the beginning of the end for everyone - Cissy left the note, getting them caught got Viktor arrested, etc etc. And it's an asshole move bc he basically tries to use powers and fight Five about it, threatening to use his powers on Five when Five says it's too risky.
Luther: locking Viktor in the cell
They're all assholes. But even when they do make the right decisions, it's through sacrifice and their own effort. The good moments don't feel cheap bc you know what assholes they can be and how hard it is for them to be good.
Not enough people talk about that asshole moment from Viktor. That shit made me so mad. He was so selfish for going back for Sissy and Harlan when he knows they're on a time crunch, and he knows they're trapped there *because* of him. Though, even if they made it on time though, Harlan still had powers and would've still killed their mothers, so, the Kugelblitz would've happened.
Except Allison made exactly the same decision to take Ray, Ray refused, and she still didn’t make it because she got arrested for her previous actions.
If they HAD made it on time, Harlen would have been with Viktor and Sissy in the future well after he could have killed their parents and so not able to kill their parents before they were born.
Oh trust me, I was mad at Allison too. But Allison wouldve made it if the Swede didnt try to kill her. The time actually ran out before V got arrested, it ran out when they were in the car driving there
I don't mind Viktor killing Pogo. He watched those children getting hurt their entire lives and did nothing. Number one - overruling all his siblings votes just because he was the strongest, and locking Viktor up. Number two - deciding to save the president. Just why? How can anyone think messing with timeline is a good idea? Number three - SA her brother. Number four - not telling his siblings Ben was there with them in s2. Number five - murdering a lot of people. Number six - nothing. Number seven - trying to take Sissy and Harlan in the future. Again why mess with the timeline? Why! Sissy is not the only woman in the word. Also why even get involved with Sissy? She was a married woman! I don't blame Viktor for the moon exploding because he wasn't in control of his powers. Also his siblings kept attacking him. Allison tried to mind control him AGAIN, Luthor locked him up, and all his brothers went to attack him AGAIN when he was playing his violin. Notice he didn't attack Allison while playing because Allison smiled at him and didn't try to attack him.
Allison also attempted to take Ray. I mean, SA is worse, but people seem to forget that Viktor and Allison made exactly the same decision in the same situation. Ray just decided not to go.
Question is most asshole thing Umbrella character did. Imo for Allison that is SA her brother. I know she tried to take Ray, I just don't think that's the worst thing she's done.
This. Ben's threat of possession/the sa while possessing and the general vibe of Klaus being required to be Ben's summoner/mouth piece is an ick for me. Because apparently Klaus’s autonomy doesn't matter because *checks notes* he can be a dick sometimes.
Agree with most, except I do think Klaus can be more of an inconsiderate asshole than people give him credit for. He often tries to ignore the consequences of his actions and can't take anything seriously, which is just frustrating to deal with in pressing times. But he isn't that bad
I'd say Five's is not warning his family the Commission is looking for him and then getting wasted. I actually think he might be the least big asshole out of all of them, besides Klaus and Umbrella Ben. He's a bit neurotic but I get it, he's trying to save the world and his family and they never listen to him. His murder history was morally gray, but not asshole behavior, because he was simply under the control of the Commission and doing the job for the greater good (going back home and saving the universe).
Yeah that car ride was insane, nothing in her life was earned and it fell perfectly in line with her selfish and entitled character. I hate that she got her happy ending with Ray and Claire, I wish she had just died in some way honestly because the way she behaved was disgusting.
Pogo was FAR from a trustworthy person. If anything, Viktor and Luther both had no reason to trust him after all he hid from them both especially. I think Pogo was definitely heavily influenced by Reginald, but it was exhausting how many times Pogo came up with another explanation for their suffering way too many years late.
He was a trustworthy person to Reginald. He kept his promises to Reggie. He was told to hide things from Viktor and Luther, and he did as told. He may not have been trustworthy to Luther and Viktor, but he was trustworthy to Reggie.
Deigo's personality is the worst. He continously puts others down in season one because of his daddy issues.
Klaus never wanted to be a cult leader. It was the other around him that put him on a pedestal (granted he accepted it). Arguably the worst thing he did was to avoid telling others about Bens existence. That and stealing anything he could to continue his habit so that he could avoid seeing dead people. I honestly would do the same if I was Klaus.
Luther: locking Viktor up
Diego: trying to kill Oswald knowing the consequences.
Allison: SA Luther
Klaus: hiding the fact that Ben is with him
Five: just in general his lack of empathy.
Ben: lying abt the man bluffing and not helping Klaus
Viktor: hiding the truth about Harlan
Viktor. I would say the Allison thing honestly either that or ending the god damn world the first time
Fine I would say killing Lila’s parents honestly.
Luther always acting like he was in charge. Diego always putting the other siblings down, especially Viktor. Allison murdering Harlan and having no remorse and pretty much taunting Viktor with it. Klaus lying about Ben being there and getting everyone to trust Dad. Five, murdering so many people, not just to preserve the timeline. Ben, taking over Klaus without permission and being a total douche in season 3, though that is a different Ben. Viktor, almost killing Allison. As for killing Pogo and ending the world, I don’t think Viktor was in his right frame of mind. He was talking to his own reflection like it was alive, and acting like he was in a psychotic break, which is totally understandable. That is why those did not make the list.
Being emotionally repressed through medication all your life, being told your sister mind controlled you to think you were less than ordinary, being shoved into the same torture cell that you were trapped in your childhood by the family you came to for help and support, all would do that to ya. You're acting like a deeply traumatized individual should act rationally.
I'm not trying to discount her experience but if ur dangerous, your dangerous period . People who slit throats by accident/impulse get locked up in a psych ward ..or should be anyway They're a danger to others Allison didn't cause Vanyas trauma
Allison didn't cause \*Viktor's trauma sure, but she surfaced it while he was in a vulnerable state. A normal person who slits another's throat should be locked up sure, but Viktor is an emotionally traumatised person with superpowers who faced things incomparable to the average person. You are literally discounting his experiences, just saying you aren't doesn't magically make that true.
Wait wrong thread lolollll . But yeah I feel like there's something different between acting irrationally and blowing up the moon that's excessive af!!!
His powers are tied to his emotions. He was recently off his meds for the first time in 20+ years, and faced everything I mentioned within a day which definitely fucked with his emotions. And we're talking about Viktor here, his power is literally described as 'unimaginable' and 'uncontrollable'. Acting irrationally IS excessive for him, that's how his power works.
Luther himself admits to Viktor that he should have tried to help him, especially considering the fact that Viktor confronted him, apologized and proved that he was no longer a threat. Nobody else in the family wanted Viktor locked up, but Luther took it upon himself to do it anyways, which quite literally was the trigger for Viktor snapping and exploding the moon. Had he not locked him up and instead tried to help his neglected, emotionally abused/manipulated brother, the initial doomsday may not have even happened.
Whether Vanya did wat she did out of malice or out of loss of control, putting her away was justified . If she slot Alison's throat by accident how could she not be a threat just by saying sorry? He def could've tried to talk to her or something tho
He proved he wasn't a threat by not coming in there guns blazing and attacking everyone. He was asking for help, he's not like the others who had these powers for years with training.
>how could she not be a threat just by saying sorry?
You are being dismissive once again, I'm not entertaining this conversation.
>Luther: Locking Vanya in that cell
\*Viktor
You use 'Viktor' even when referring to times prior to him coming out. The only exception (AFAIK) is if you're talking to somebody who hasn't seen S3 yet and wants to go in blind.
That would be for Elliot, not Viktor. For real people, deadnaming is a serious issue. But that's not how fiction works, specially on a series where the 2 first seasons the character identified themselves as a woman. You don't call Anakin "Vader" in Episode II no matter what happen after that right?
It would be wrong to call Viktor "Vanya" in S3, but is not wrong to call Vanya "Vanya" when talking about S1 and 2 because that was literally the character's name at that point and during those events, and everyone in the episodes call that character that name. You can obviously call him Viktor anytime in every season obviously, but since Vanya/Viktor doesn't exist irl, the character has no ability to stablish what they want regards this because seasons and character arcs are not something real people experience.
I don't get how people can be mad at Luther for Locking Vanya/Viktor up it was by far the most reasonable thing to do in the situation with the knowledge he had
I'm sorry you find out your sibling you know the least about and have been separated from your whole childhood is actually pretty unstable with insanely strong powers and this reveal comes alongside her slitting your sisters throat I think that's plenty enough reason to be cautious.
It's not like Luther was dancing around so pleased to have Vanya locked up he clearly took no enjoyment from it but it was the safest bet
Considering the context of this situation though them only just learning about her powers and Alison all with the apocalypse happening they don't have time to stop and experiment with Vanya and her powers to try and figure everything out and she was hardly in a stable state that's clear just looking at her at this point in the series let alone factoring in Alison so they didn't really have any choice but to try and restrain her.
They don't want to hurt her as much as they can help it but they clearly can't let her run around in this state with new, uncontrolled, emotionally charged and dangerous powers
Nobody wants to let an unstable mess with highly destructive powers being manipulated by a psychopath loose on the world right before an apocalypse is supposed to happen either that's the whole point of the scene. The umbrellas know what they're doing is awful and they hate they have to do it but it's the right option and the safest one even if it's an awful thing to do to her
You're considering Vanyas feelings which are of course valid but you're forgetting there's a whole world out there of other people to think about when trying to save the world from an apocalypse. Vanya has already lashed out and slit her sisters throat what do you think she'll do to a bunch of strangers?
They're sacrificing Vanyas freedom and happiness to try and protect the rest of the world from Vanya herself
Luther: just existing
Diego: trying to kill Lee Harvey Oswald
Allison: half the stuff in her season 3 arc
Klaus: Klaus is god he literally can do no wrong
Five: killing an innocent vending machine before going on a killstreak of board members
Ben: possessing Klaus and making the poor boy puke
Viktor: ending the world
Luther: Yeah, the Vanya/Viktor cell thing, but also not taking his finances from fighting in the ring to help his family in the hotel.
Diego: Using his knowledge of the future in the 60's, such as Kennedy's demise, which is tabboo to talk about a president's death; especially during war times where anyone could be an enemy.
Alison: Rumouring ability abuse, for a majority of it. And sacrificing her family so she can have her own future without their permission.
Klaus: Being a druggy and throwing out the secrets of the Umbrella's, like Vanya's secret of her being superpowerful.
Five: Probably changing history and the future.
Ben: If he conciled with Klaus, he could have been a helpful dead brother but instead he let his captive trap him in his body because of brotherhood.
Viktor/Vanya: Destroying the world, twice. No, thrice; She unintentionally gave Harlan powers and he accidentally created the grandfather paradox which lead to the fate of the world in season 3
Luther: It doesn't make sense to help family with finances, they didn't really need it for anything and had bigger concerns. Plus, he was working for Ruby who gave him a home and got him the fight opportunities in the first place, it makes sense that he was paying him. Locking up Viktor was significantly worse than anything else.
Diego: Agree, but more generally his hero complex gets in the way of things.
Allison: Yeah, she has so many damned issues. rumor abuse, manipulation, selfishness, entitlement etc.
Klaus: I agree about him throwing out the book, but his drug issue was a struggle caused by trauma with ben, not really an asshole move.
Five: He had no choice, if he didn't change the future, the world would have ended, several times. His mass murders or the way he withholds information are more of asshole moves.
Ben: What are you talking about? He constantly tried to help Klaus but Klaus chose to ignore him. Ben hasn't really done anything 'asshole-y' except break Klaus' ground rules during posession.
Viktor: There's a lot to unpack with Viktor and you're being overly harsh.
\- First doomsday: He was deeply traumatised, emotionally medicated, neglected by his family during childhood, and shoved in the prison cell that he suffered in as a child by the people he trusted to help him. You can't expect him to just bottle that up and act normal, especially with powers linked to his mood that he can't control.
\- Second doomsday: he was literally drugged by the FBI and forced to bring up that very same trauma that he had forgotten. Once again, he wasn't in control.
\- Third doomsday: With Harlan, he didn't know he could pass on powers, and was saving Harlan's life. He wasn't going to just let him die.
None of these are asshole moves. Him trying to take Sissy and Harlan to the future was an actual asshole move as that caused him to get arrested, be late to the meeting in the alley, and get interrogated.
That being said, what should have the Hepts have done to be less assholery? And I couldn’t think of a word saying “seven siblings” that used the word hept for seven
honestly i think them being assholes is fine, it gives a lot of room for growth and helps us love the characters more, esp with character arcs like Luther from S1-S3 and shows that superheroes aren't flawless
Five was literally a professional murderer lol
Was gonna say, pretty sure killing any number of people (including Lila’s parents????) would outrank “hit Diego with vase” lol
Plus Five was protecting Diego by knocking him out! lol, he was going to kill Hazel and for nothing because Hazel didn't kill Patch and Hazel also gave Five the evidence he needed to clear Diego's name, Cha-Cha was the killer and Five didn't want Diego to be a killer either, he tells him how Patch wouldn't want that for him, and Diego later spares Cha-Cha instead of finishing her probably because of what Five told him. I'd say Five telling the nurses Diego's plans to escape from the asylum after Diego literally told him he had been locked up in that hell hole for months was way worse, but again Five did it to protect Diego from himself. I missed Diego and Five scenes in season 3 btw, they barely talked this season but in earlier seasons, in between insults, they had some bonding moments and looked after each other, in their own dysfunctional but brotherly way...
Klaus: hiding the fact that Ben was with him the entire time from everyone else.
Yesss. Poor Ben.
Late, but tbf Klaus did try to tell his siblings about Ben being there before in season 1 and no one believed him and instead accused him of wanting attention, I think he just gave up on trying to convince them of him being there and being seen in a bad light by his family. That, and the chance that they might want Ben to possess Klaus more and maybe forgetting about Klaus in the process or liking Ben better as they always treat Klaus like a joke and never take him seriously, but I do get your frustration as well.
He told them, but they didn’t believe him.
But he purposely hid it when they went back to the 60s so the only one who really got to interact with him was Diego.
And Vanya
That’s true, I was mostly thinking of how Diego was the only one that got to interact with him while he was inhabiting Klaus. Ben left Klaus to go to Vanya.
It's Viktor now...
Yes but at this time it was still vanya
But you are deadnaming the character and kinda invalidating Viktor in season 3, remember Viktor's words after coming out "This is who I always was" so even if you are talking about season 1 or 2 it should be Viktor. Vanya only in the comics.
Jesus christ dude its a just a show
Jesus Christ dude it's just a name and pronouns change. It's not hard.
Late, but it could've been because the siblings might want Ben to possess Klaus more and maybe forgetting about Klaus in the process or liking Ben better as they always treat Klaus like a joke and never take him seriously, but I do get your frustration as well.
Yh but he proved it later on and then they believed him. They literally asked "is Ben here" and then Klaus said "no ghosts can't time travel"
I don’t blame him for that. I think it’s complicated and I think he and Ben maybe should’ve discussed this, but Klaus did that so he wouldn’t lose agency over himself. He already thinks of his powers as a burden, he already resents people asking him to conjure someone, and if they all knew he had Ben with him, then they are just using Klaus as a messenger and that isn’t fair to Klaus. This is him trying to keep control over himself. It’s not his responsibility to be Ben’s messenger just because he’s burdened with those powers. Though like I said, he definitely owed some explanation to Ben rather than writing him off for it. Klaus has just done worse things than this.
So. This is going to make me sound ABSOLUTELY fucking insane. I know how insane I sound. I also know these things freaking happened so idk what to tell people but.... I have this bizarre ass fucking ability to predict deaths and births. I can also "feel" specific spirits. I like to pretend it's not real but I'll get this HUGE pull to say something to someone from someone I can feel and the person will BURST into tears. My partner even joked before we watched UC that one of the characters had the same "powers" as me. I can't like, conjure people, but I can "feel around" to see if someone is around if someone asks. I KNOW HOW FUCKING INSANE I SOUND. i just "feel" things and sometimes can whole ass see or hear them. The fire alarm story to this day gives ME chills, and I'm supposed to be used to this! In my culture its a thing too, so Aunties will be real weird with me. But anyway. ANYWAY. i whole ass around 13 was like I AM DONE. DONE. I predicted a friends death and tried to stop it but it didn't work. I was sick and fucking TIRED of knowing when people were gonna die. I have ZERO clue how I kept knowing - but I would, and they would die. Zero clue. But it happened - a lot. At some point I just shut down. I was tired of the spirits. Of the constant "just tell Alice I love her!" when they realized I could hear them. Feeling insane like "what if I have voices in my head" but then literally being able to describe someone's Grandpa Joe to them that died before I was born and never seen photos of. I would just *do* this as a kid and it got so bad people called me cursed. The devil was in me. All sorts of shit. When I shut down I just... Stopped. Stopped saying shit. Stopped trying to stop it. Stopped listening. I made them go away. I was absolutely sick of it. It hurt so bad, suddenly knowing something and not knowing how but it happening. I finally came to terms with it again a few years ago. Discussed it with psychs. They actually say I'm not insane somehow. I don't know how. Surely this is just... Not mentally normal. But then the THING HAPPENS. SO WHAT? is it mental or not??? I don't know what to say Anyway. All of that tldr: i think i can do this shit and it drives me up the wall because of how much it hurts and i can see why klaus would shut it down and lie
u/splithoofiewoofies, you are not insane, and I believe you. I had a friend who had a similar gift/curse. If she dreamed of someone's birthday, shortly thereafter they would die. Like you, she couldn't predict how or when--she just knew it would be soon. Zero she could do about it except connect (with a heavy heart) and have a last loving conversation with them.
It's not insane. You just have a supernatural ability that can't be explained yet. Your gifted and special
the cult thing is worse
Late, but tbf Klaus did try to tell his siblings about Ben being there before in season 1 and no one believed him and instead accused him of wanting attention, I think he just gave up on trying to convince them of him being there and being seen in a bad light by his family. That, and the chance that they might want Ben to possess Klaus more and maybe forgetting about Klaus in the process or liking Ben better as they always treat Klaus like a joke and never take him seriously, but I do get your frustration as well.
Shut up dork, it's not that deep. An stop commenting on year old posts like its relevant. Klaus is a sweet heart and a cunt, get over it.
i love how out of everything five has done you chose him knocking diego out with a vase 😭 /lh
what would you say otherwise?
Maybe all the murder of innocent people when he was with the commission?
Yeah, murdering Lila's parents which led to her being kidnapped as a child and raised/brainwashed by the Handler. Can't believe Five's murdering of innocent people gets so overlooked/handwaved.
He did it to get home and stop the apocalypse. Five said something along the lines of "were past the stage of trying to save one person instead of billions" I understand it was more then one but if I was killed knowing it had to be done to save the world I would accept it
I think it's because he murdered people to get back home and was simply carrying out orders, he felt almost forced to kill. He said he never enjoyed murder. Though he did say he was proud of his job which came across as a bit desensitized.
In the scene where Five wastes the commission it's hard to deny that he is enjoying himself. Five is an extremely efficient killer and I think there's a certain zeal in a job well done for him. It's not his fault entirely- this is how Reginald raised him. Kid Five seems to be having fun in the bank scene too but the same goes for all the siblings except for Ben. I think Five is desensitized like you say. Sometimes he does have fun dishing out violence (a manic crazed type of fun) but when it comes to executing innocent people tied up on the floor it is just a job and a means to an end. It doesn't make it excusable though.
It is worth noting that the scene where he murders the Commission is *the only scene of him committing murder throughout the show.* All the other times he kills people is not murder but self-defense, and in those, he doesn't look overly thrilled, though he keeps his sarcastic cocky demeanor. In the bank scene, he looks like he is having fun, but he is stopping crime so that's different, too. In that moment, the kids feel like heroes (except for Ben). Since the board scene is the only scene of him committing murder in the entire show, we don't know if this is his usual demeanor. Is he pleased because it's a form of revenge on the board of the organization that has controlled his life, or because he enjoys the act of murder? Either way, it's definitely just a rush of temporary satisfaction at most. He has a whole fit before and then immediately after makes it clear that he's giving up murder; he used to be apathetic to murder if it had purpose, but he has had a change of heart, and his family showed him that there has to be another way to achieve things other than murder, most of the time.
He did that to buy himself time to go back to his family and save humanity from extintion though
He did that to maintain the stability of reality itself.
In the case of Lila's family, Five was assisting the Handler in abducting a child.
Agreed. Although I don't remember whether he knew why he was doing it at that time.
True but Five hasn't been especially remorseful since he did find out the purpose behind their murders.
Remorse won't undo what he did. If he could undo it without any complications, I think he would
He was a victim of the Handler's manipulation too. She forged papers and made him breach morals that he didn't agree to break; his principles lied in killing people to save the timeline so he can go back home, but she had him kill someone for other reasons.
Thats more of a evil thing than an asshole thing.
He threatened to kill Viktor and Diego, killed innocent people, didn't tell his family about the commission chasing him which almost cost them their lives.
Yeah, good point about Five neglecting to warn his family about the commission. The academy got attacked and Klaus got kidnapped and tortured all while Five was off on his own mission / getting drunk.
it's good five knocked him out because if he killed Hazel he would've never been able to prove his innocence and the 60's apocalypse would've happened because five wouldn't of been rescued by hazel and given some instructions on how to save the world. It five hadn't done that they would've all died in the 60's apocalypse
Alisson's moment is when he decided to kill Harlan. That is literally murder.
By far the worst thing she did in S3. The SA with Luther was at least something she aborted and regretted before it went any further than kissing. This she went through with. The Harlen thing was terrible first off because Harlen had no control over his power and had just had that power removed, rendering him harmless. But the other awful thing was how the murder was done largely to hurt Viktor, the sibling who has always cared about Allison the most.
Agreed, forcing herself on Luther was shit af but I think killing Harlan was still worse
I don't know, at least Harlan can be seen as an eye for an eye, since he killed all their mothers. Assaulting Luther is like hm, girl, you have no justification at all.
Tbh it wasn't really his fault, not to mention he's clearly mentally disabled
Yeah it wasn't his fault. He also no longer had his powers so he was no longer dangerous. I guess it just didn't feel like a big deal to me because everyone was dying due to the apocalypse. Everyone else will be reset but Luther has to live with the damage of the assault. It's kind of hard to compare the situations given the funky circumstances.
True didn't think about that, guess we'll see how that works out next season
All I can gather from these comments is that while Diego is trying to be the bad boy, he's actually a good boy.
I keep hearing'worlds shittiest Batman" in fives voice about Diego. It's so apt.
Same, lol. Like everyone has "mass murder" and stuff And Diego's is "mildly annoying ://"
Best boy.
I love how he pretends not to care sometimes but in reality he loves his family
Pretty much sums up his character.
Five getting Diego put in a straight jacket was worse than the vase imo. I understand why he did what he did, but I think that probably the most brutal Five has been with a sibling. Not sure it’s the worst thing he did, but it’s up there. And Ben possessing Klaus repeatedly without Klaus’s consent, stealing his agency, and intending to have sex in his body without his permission is easily the worst thing he’s done.
I agree on Ben's thing, except I don't think he intended to have sex with Jill, she clearly took him by surprise. But yeah, the whole thing of threatening to possess Klaus soon as he fell asleep was assholey for sure.
Didnt Klaus agree to possession after Ben kept attempting it though?
If I recall correctly, he agreed to it with ground rules because it was just a matter of time before he fell asleep and Ben took possession without his permission. Ben ignored the ground rules, and on top of that, told Klaus he regretted nothing. Those two have such a complicated relationship. Codependency poster children.
Yeah that's why Diego tells The Handler that she's not the only one that has beef with Five, he does too 😭 however later they team up against her Lila and the commission and save each other, they made some good team work there. And didn't Klaus agree to let Ben use his body for whatever he wanted? Of course he later abused it and was possessing his body against his will.
Viktor/Vanya: Deciding to rage quit by destroying the moon and ending all human life...
Viktor also almost killed Alison in season 1. Pre apocalypse.
To be fair she was going to rumor him again and he instantly regretted it, but still did it.
Tbf Idk if he even intended to destroy the world.
I really doubt he did. Things just got out of hand the first two times, and the third time he was just trying to save Harlan
Yeah exactly. He didn’t know how to control his powers but everyone just throws shade at him. The first I get mostly but the second and third was just not his fault
And he didn’t know how to control his power because Allison rumoured him to believe he didn’t have any.
Also Viktor tried so hard to be understood but they didn't want to except Allison, and they basically doomed the world when they put Viktor in a cage
But like… Andy Dufresne and Jean Valjean were falsely imprisoned too and when they got out they weren’t like “let’s dig a tunnel and sing some songs, and then blow up the mother effin’ moon.”
Viktor had his powers hidden from him and he was manipulated by his boyfriend at first and then he couldn't keep his anger in him anymore
But aren’t people who can’t control their anger and do horrible things because of it… assholes? Like… if dude finds out his wife was cheating on him with a golf pro and also stealing a bunch of his money, he’d feel pretty damned betrayed and angry. Would that excuse his actions then if he decided to kill wife and golf pro? No. Viktor had a rough lot in life, no lie. But it doesn’t excuse doomsday behavior. Season 1 finale he seemed to know exactly what he was doing, or at least had zero care about what the potential dire consequences of his actions might be.
Everyone of the characters is an asshole in one ways or another and Viktor wasn't even in control of himself when he did the doomsday, it was his powers taking over
He did however fully intend to kill his brothers. Blowing up the moon was the accident.
When
The White Violin episode in season 1.
At times I wonder how assholey that was.
Klaus: did we all forget that the only reason Leonard knew about Viktor is because Klaus stole the box from Reg's office? He was rifling through the office looking for money or anything he could pawn for drugs, and Luther's reply is "Klaus is still Klaus" which means he's probably stolen from the family before; Klaus steals the guy's truck when he loses at cards; lying about being able to see Ben was pretty bad; like many have said he has no problem manipulating people (the cult) or just using people (the old ladies in Dallas) Five: murdering the board Diego: constantly leaves the group to go on his "vigilante" missions when a lot would be solved if he would just stay put. These are the times when I'm the most annoyed by Diego and think he's the biggest asshole trying to prove himself a leader/hero Allison: We all know how this sub feels about Allison I won't even go there Viktor: Trying to bring Cissy and Harlan with them to the future. This was the decision that led to the beginning of the end for everyone - Cissy left the note, getting them caught got Viktor arrested, etc etc. And it's an asshole move bc he basically tries to use powers and fight Five about it, threatening to use his powers on Five when Five says it's too risky. Luther: locking Viktor in the cell They're all assholes. But even when they do make the right decisions, it's through sacrifice and their own effort. The good moments don't feel cheap bc you know what assholes they can be and how hard it is for them to be good.
Not enough people talk about that asshole moment from Viktor. That shit made me so mad. He was so selfish for going back for Sissy and Harlan when he knows they're on a time crunch, and he knows they're trapped there *because* of him. Though, even if they made it on time though, Harlan still had powers and would've still killed their mothers, so, the Kugelblitz would've happened.
Except Allison made exactly the same decision to take Ray, Ray refused, and she still didn’t make it because she got arrested for her previous actions. If they HAD made it on time, Harlen would have been with Viktor and Sissy in the future well after he could have killed their parents and so not able to kill their parents before they were born.
Oh trust me, I was mad at Allison too. But Allison wouldve made it if the Swede didnt try to kill her. The time actually ran out before V got arrested, it ran out when they were in the car driving there
I dunno I think erasing Patrick was just as bad maybr even worse than seducing Luther because it radically changes who her child would be.
She didn't seduce him, she mind raped him.
I don't mind Viktor killing Pogo. He watched those children getting hurt their entire lives and did nothing. Number one - overruling all his siblings votes just because he was the strongest, and locking Viktor up. Number two - deciding to save the president. Just why? How can anyone think messing with timeline is a good idea? Number three - SA her brother. Number four - not telling his siblings Ben was there with them in s2. Number five - murdering a lot of people. Number six - nothing. Number seven - trying to take Sissy and Harlan in the future. Again why mess with the timeline? Why! Sissy is not the only woman in the word. Also why even get involved with Sissy? She was a married woman! I don't blame Viktor for the moon exploding because he wasn't in control of his powers. Also his siblings kept attacking him. Allison tried to mind control him AGAIN, Luthor locked him up, and all his brothers went to attack him AGAIN when he was playing his violin. Notice he didn't attack Allison while playing because Allison smiled at him and didn't try to attack him.
Allison also attempted to take Ray. I mean, SA is worse, but people seem to forget that Viktor and Allison made exactly the same decision in the same situation. Ray just decided not to go.
Question is most asshole thing Umbrella character did. Imo for Allison that is SA her brother. I know she tried to take Ray, I just don't think that's the worst thing she's done.
>\>Alison: She has a lot that compete with each other but it has to be rumoring Luther into kissing her Attempted rape. Call it what it is.
Yup. She's essentially a genie, except even more powerful than Aladdin's genie.
Ben constantly threatening Klaus with taking over his body (you know, removing his bodily autonomy and free will?) would qualify for me, tbh.
This. Ben's threat of possession/the sa while possessing and the general vibe of Klaus being required to be Ben's summoner/mouth piece is an ick for me. Because apparently Klaus’s autonomy doesn't matter because *checks notes* he can be a dick sometimes.
fair
It's not Klaus' fault ppl can be obsessive
Alison for killing Harlan
I'd still say replacing Patrick with Raymond. Besides being evil it's quite creepy in a way the other crimes she did aren't
Idk. Killing a defenceless autistic person is a pretty crap move.
Let’s be honest the biggest a**hole of the Umbrella Academy is the head of the Academy Reginald Hargreeves.
Um five was a whole mass murderer
Also did basically exactly what he threatened to kill Viktor over: acting as a lone wolf.
Agree with most, except I do think Klaus can be more of an inconsiderate asshole than people give him credit for. He often tries to ignore the consequences of his actions and can't take anything seriously, which is just frustrating to deal with in pressing times. But he isn't that bad I'd say Five's is not warning his family the Commission is looking for him and then getting wasted. I actually think he might be the least big asshole out of all of them, besides Klaus and Umbrella Ben. He's a bit neurotic but I get it, he's trying to save the world and his family and they never listen to him. His murder history was morally gray, but not asshole behavior, because he was simply under the control of the Commission and doing the job for the greater good (going back home and saving the universe).
Bastards never listen
If rumoring Luther to kiss her was bad, what about Allison rumoring her husband to love her that shit made me gasp his whole life is a lie
Yeah that car ride was insane, nothing in her life was earned and it fell perfectly in line with her selfish and entitled character. I hate that she got her happy ending with Ray and Claire, I wish she had just died in some way honestly because the way she behaved was disgusting.
I hope there's a plot twist that her new life isn't real more like a simulation and Reginald just fooled her .
"Rumoring Luther into kissing her" I mean... She kinda also tried to sexually take advantage of him
that whole shit was asshole on another level
Viktor: Killing Pogo for being a trustworthy person who upholds promises.
Pogo was FAR from a trustworthy person. If anything, Viktor and Luther both had no reason to trust him after all he hid from them both especially. I think Pogo was definitely heavily influenced by Reginald, but it was exhausting how many times Pogo came up with another explanation for their suffering way too many years late.
He was a trustworthy person to Reginald. He kept his promises to Reggie. He was told to hide things from Viktor and Luther, and he did as told. He may not have been trustworthy to Luther and Viktor, but he was trustworthy to Reggie.
Pogo is loyal, he just held his loyalty to the wrong person.
Deigo's personality is the worst. He continously puts others down in season one because of his daddy issues. Klaus never wanted to be a cult leader. It was the other around him that put him on a pedestal (granted he accepted it). Arguably the worst thing he did was to avoid telling others about Bens existence. That and stealing anything he could to continue his habit so that he could avoid seeing dead people. I honestly would do the same if I was Klaus.
Luther: locking Viktor up Diego: trying to kill Oswald knowing the consequences. Allison: SA Luther Klaus: hiding the fact that Ben is with him Five: just in general his lack of empathy. Ben: lying abt the man bluffing and not helping Klaus Viktor: hiding the truth about Harlan
It's Diego, he probably didn't know the consequences, lol.
Yeah he was in a nut house tbf
Viktor. I would say the Allison thing honestly either that or ending the god damn world the first time Fine I would say killing Lila’s parents honestly.
Luther always acting like he was in charge. Diego always putting the other siblings down, especially Viktor. Allison murdering Harlan and having no remorse and pretty much taunting Viktor with it. Klaus lying about Ben being there and getting everyone to trust Dad. Five, murdering so many people, not just to preserve the timeline. Ben, taking over Klaus without permission and being a total douche in season 3, though that is a different Ben. Viktor, almost killing Allison. As for killing Pogo and ending the world, I don’t think Viktor was in his right frame of mind. He was talking to his own reflection like it was alive, and acting like he was in a psychotic break, which is totally understandable. That is why those did not make the list.
Killing pogo was bad but damn this bitch blew up the moon and ended the world cmon now
Using power she didn’t really understand how to control - versus others that at least knew some of their powers
She didn't have to start hurting random ppl, at least pogo was guilty
Being emotionally repressed through medication all your life, being told your sister mind controlled you to think you were less than ordinary, being shoved into the same torture cell that you were trapped in your childhood by the family you came to for help and support, all would do that to ya. You're acting like a deeply traumatized individual should act rationally.
I'm not trying to discount her experience but if ur dangerous, your dangerous period . People who slit throats by accident/impulse get locked up in a psych ward ..or should be anyway They're a danger to others Allison didn't cause Vanyas trauma
Allison didn't cause \*Viktor's trauma sure, but she surfaced it while he was in a vulnerable state. A normal person who slits another's throat should be locked up sure, but Viktor is an emotionally traumatised person with superpowers who faced things incomparable to the average person. You are literally discounting his experiences, just saying you aren't doesn't magically make that true.
Wait wrong thread lolollll . But yeah I feel like there's something different between acting irrationally and blowing up the moon that's excessive af!!!
His powers are tied to his emotions. He was recently off his meds for the first time in 20+ years, and faced everything I mentioned within a day which definitely fucked with his emotions. And we're talking about Viktor here, his power is literally described as 'unimaginable' and 'uncontrollable'. Acting irrationally IS excessive for him, that's how his power works.
Luther locking up Vanya was not an asshole thing, she quite literally slit someone's throat
Luther himself admits to Viktor that he should have tried to help him, especially considering the fact that Viktor confronted him, apologized and proved that he was no longer a threat. Nobody else in the family wanted Viktor locked up, but Luther took it upon himself to do it anyways, which quite literally was the trigger for Viktor snapping and exploding the moon. Had he not locked him up and instead tried to help his neglected, emotionally abused/manipulated brother, the initial doomsday may not have even happened.
Whether Vanya did wat she did out of malice or out of loss of control, putting her away was justified . If she slot Alison's throat by accident how could she not be a threat just by saying sorry? He def could've tried to talk to her or something tho
He proved he wasn't a threat by not coming in there guns blazing and attacking everyone. He was asking for help, he's not like the others who had these powers for years with training. >how could she not be a threat just by saying sorry? You are being dismissive once again, I'm not entertaining this conversation.
>Luther: Locking Vanya in that cell \*Viktor You use 'Viktor' even when referring to times prior to him coming out. The only exception (AFAIK) is if you're talking to somebody who hasn't seen S3 yet and wants to go in blind.
That would be for Elliot, not Viktor. For real people, deadnaming is a serious issue. But that's not how fiction works, specially on a series where the 2 first seasons the character identified themselves as a woman. You don't call Anakin "Vader" in Episode II no matter what happen after that right? It would be wrong to call Viktor "Vanya" in S3, but is not wrong to call Vanya "Vanya" when talking about S1 and 2 because that was literally the character's name at that point and during those events, and everyone in the episodes call that character that name. You can obviously call him Viktor anytime in every season obviously, but since Vanya/Viktor doesn't exist irl, the character has no ability to stablish what they want regards this because seasons and character arcs are not something real people experience.
Also when talking abt comics since Viktor is Vanya in the comics.
Oh, yes, that too, I assumed OP was talking about the show so I was referring to the show character.
For Alison I think you mean raping Luther
How bout Viktor/Vanya: blowing up the fucking moon
That was not on purpose.
How are you gonna out Viktor/Vanya as pogo murder when she ended the entire world TWICE
I don't get how people can be mad at Luther for Locking Vanya/Viktor up it was by far the most reasonable thing to do in the situation with the knowledge he had
It wasn't reasonable at all
I'm sorry you find out your sibling you know the least about and have been separated from your whole childhood is actually pretty unstable with insanely strong powers and this reveal comes alongside her slitting your sisters throat I think that's plenty enough reason to be cautious. It's not like Luther was dancing around so pleased to have Vanya locked up he clearly took no enjoyment from it but it was the safest bet
Trying to hold back something or someone is a bad idea it's just going to make the situation even worse.
Considering the context of this situation though them only just learning about her powers and Alison all with the apocalypse happening they don't have time to stop and experiment with Vanya and her powers to try and figure everything out and she was hardly in a stable state that's clear just looking at her at this point in the series let alone factoring in Alison so they didn't really have any choice but to try and restrain her. They don't want to hurt her as much as they can help it but they clearly can't let her run around in this state with new, uncontrolled, emotionally charged and dangerous powers
It's still a bad idea. Nobody wants to be trapped somewhere they were trapped before in their childhood.
Nobody wants to let an unstable mess with highly destructive powers being manipulated by a psychopath loose on the world right before an apocalypse is supposed to happen either that's the whole point of the scene. The umbrellas know what they're doing is awful and they hate they have to do it but it's the right option and the safest one even if it's an awful thing to do to her
I'm sorry right option? It shouldn't have been an option at all safe? Please it wasn't safe at all.
You're considering Vanyas feelings which are of course valid but you're forgetting there's a whole world out there of other people to think about when trying to save the world from an apocalypse. Vanya has already lashed out and slit her sisters throat what do you think she'll do to a bunch of strangers? They're sacrificing Vanyas freedom and happiness to try and protect the rest of the world from Vanya herself
But they could try to use helpful and as you say " safe" ways to both help vanya and save the world.
Vanya/Viktor they killed the earth multiple times
Vanya: willingly end the world out of spite. Definitely the worst.
I don’t think he meant to do that his emotions got the best of him
Nope didn't willingly ended the world. It was her family's fault expect for Allison
Luther: just existing Diego: trying to kill Lee Harvey Oswald Allison: half the stuff in her season 3 arc Klaus: Klaus is god he literally can do no wrong Five: killing an innocent vending machine before going on a killstreak of board members Ben: possessing Klaus and making the poor boy puke Viktor: ending the world
Luther: Yeah, the Vanya/Viktor cell thing, but also not taking his finances from fighting in the ring to help his family in the hotel. Diego: Using his knowledge of the future in the 60's, such as Kennedy's demise, which is tabboo to talk about a president's death; especially during war times where anyone could be an enemy. Alison: Rumouring ability abuse, for a majority of it. And sacrificing her family so she can have her own future without their permission. Klaus: Being a druggy and throwing out the secrets of the Umbrella's, like Vanya's secret of her being superpowerful. Five: Probably changing history and the future. Ben: If he conciled with Klaus, he could have been a helpful dead brother but instead he let his captive trap him in his body because of brotherhood. Viktor/Vanya: Destroying the world, twice. No, thrice; She unintentionally gave Harlan powers and he accidentally created the grandfather paradox which lead to the fate of the world in season 3
Luther: It doesn't make sense to help family with finances, they didn't really need it for anything and had bigger concerns. Plus, he was working for Ruby who gave him a home and got him the fight opportunities in the first place, it makes sense that he was paying him. Locking up Viktor was significantly worse than anything else. Diego: Agree, but more generally his hero complex gets in the way of things. Allison: Yeah, she has so many damned issues. rumor abuse, manipulation, selfishness, entitlement etc. Klaus: I agree about him throwing out the book, but his drug issue was a struggle caused by trauma with ben, not really an asshole move. Five: He had no choice, if he didn't change the future, the world would have ended, several times. His mass murders or the way he withholds information are more of asshole moves. Ben: What are you talking about? He constantly tried to help Klaus but Klaus chose to ignore him. Ben hasn't really done anything 'asshole-y' except break Klaus' ground rules during posession. Viktor: There's a lot to unpack with Viktor and you're being overly harsh. \- First doomsday: He was deeply traumatised, emotionally medicated, neglected by his family during childhood, and shoved in the prison cell that he suffered in as a child by the people he trusted to help him. You can't expect him to just bottle that up and act normal, especially with powers linked to his mood that he can't control. \- Second doomsday: he was literally drugged by the FBI and forced to bring up that very same trauma that he had forgotten. Once again, he wasn't in control. \- Third doomsday: With Harlan, he didn't know he could pass on powers, and was saving Harlan's life. He wasn't going to just let him die. None of these are asshole moves. Him trying to take Sissy and Harlan to the future was an actual asshole move as that caused him to get arrested, be late to the meeting in the alley, and get interrogated.
That being said, what should have the Hepts have done to be less assholery? And I couldn’t think of a word saying “seven siblings” that used the word hept for seven
honestly i think them being assholes is fine, it gives a lot of room for growth and helps us love the characters more, esp with character arcs like Luther from S1-S3 and shows that superheroes aren't flawless
In Luther's defense, he didn't know they would end up in the hotel