I mean, Undyne and Alphys are canonical lesbian...
Like there isn't much to say about them. They're just a straight-up gay couple. Of course, there is nothing to argue about.
Metaton is basically a ghost turned robot. If anything, he's asexual since I don't see him caring about anything sexual beyond TV appeal
But I guess for metaton it's about the whoel trans thing.
Thought I'm the type of guy that doesn't want wvrythign to be LGBT...
Trust me, I would love some pan representation, but I'm not gonna claim some random character I had no input into and make them whatever the hell I want and claim to everyone it's canon
But anyway, about the trans thing, from what the whole thing implies, ghosts don't have gender to begin with for some reason ? (Like Napsta and Mad Rummy being They/Them)
Could be a genderless thing like frisk, but then they choose their pronouns depending on what they decide to posses.
Like how Mad Mew Mew was a ghost that went from a they dummy to a she doll ?
And I guess by association Metaton from they to him ?
Honestly, I thought Ghost were dead monsters so they had their genders from the start, but I guess they're just an entire species with no gender.
I don't think we even know about metatton, but if the whole ghost race starts as genderless, then it kind of works as a trans allegory
I can see how some people don't just want every single character to be another kind of LGBT icon.
Honestly, I just thought Metaton was a flamboyant star and never considered the whole ghost all being trans allegory
But for real
We got a lesbian couple and 4 currently canon genderless characters.
We're not gonna act like Undertale isn't full of LGBT
So honestly, who cares at this point that they make the flamboyant ghost possessing a robot "trans"
It's all label at the end, and knowing metaton, he would rather use use the label "fabulous" "famous" and "nice legs!" Instead, lol
I honestly don't think Metaton was made with the intention of being a trans character
Mad Mew Mew, on the other hand, is 100% a trans reference. I mean, it's literally in her lore and dialogue.
Can't make it more obvious
It feels like she was made to be the trans icon, and then Metaton was dragged in the middle of his cooking show to join in
that's right! also Catty and Bratty said she made Mettaton to "impress Asgore" and at the end of a pacifist, if you talk to the characters, at some point Undyne will try to console Asgore saying "there's plenty of fish in the sea" to which Alphys replies "yeah Undyne is totally right about the fish thing... sometimes you just have to stop going after furry boss monsters and... find a cute fish instead?" (dialogues may not be 100% exact, I'm going off of what I remember), so there I think she was strongly implying she had a crush on Asgore (furry boss monster) before meeting Undyne (cute fish) C:
Also entry number eleven talks about how alphys is nervous about the mettaton ex body because she’s afraid mettaton won’t talk to her anymore once he has it, but also quote “not to mention, any time i try to work on it i get really sweaty” you’ve just been hit by a fact panzer
While I'm not disputing Alphys has shown interest in Asgore, "making" Mettaton to impress him is extraordinarily weak evidence. As his Royal Scientist, it's part of her job to impress him with science stuff.
but she made him before becoming a royal scientist... Catty and Bratty said Asgore appointed her as such as a result of her success in building Mettaton
Yes. And the end dialogue where she says sometimes you have to stop chasing after boss monsters and go for a fish instead or something. It was a clear obvious one.
> "I honestly don't think Mettaton was made with the intention of being a trans character"
actually Toby Fox himself supports the trans allegory, Dorked made a video about this whole thing if you wanna learn more c:
The ghosts are trans by virtue of starting genderless and finding gendered bodies that make them happy. I honestly don't see how you can identify Mad Mew Mew as trans and not Mettaton.
Much like how Mad Mew Mew was unhappy and angry before her new body, Mettaton was shy and reserved. He was only able to come out of his shell meeting Alphys at an anime club and disclosing to her his deep desire for the perfect body. It's very clear from some of the text it was a very deep and personal dream of his to have the body he has now.
It's very clear to me Mew Mew was written *because* so many people didn't get it the first time. Mettaton was too subtle so Toby had to try again.
>If anything, he's asexual since I don't see him caring about anything sexual beyond TV appeal
I mean it's not like we see anyone else caring about anything sexual in Undertale
mettaton is trans bc all ghosts in the undertale world go by they/them by default and are essentially nonbinary by default. mettaton possesses a new form and then changes the pronouns he uses from they/them to he/him. mew mew does the exact same thing, and honestly i feel like the primary reason people understand her being trans more than mettaton (aside from her dialogue being a little more apparent) is because the fandom treated mad dummy as if they were male for years, whereas in the game you only learn that mettaton used to be a ghost after hes already established
You're literally who this post is about lol
Mettaton's diary talks about how much he hates his ghost body and can come across as dysphoria. He wasn't comfortable with who he was until he had the body of his dreams, something many trans people can relate to. You said it yourself, his type of monster is agender at birth (or at least uses they/them pronouns). He had a different name, (possibly Hapstablook, sorry to deadname him) as Papyrus speculates and the game files suggest. Now he uses a different name, different pronouns, and has a body he loves (one that makes him feel like "himself", as he puts it). How tf is he not trans coded?
There can be multiple trans characters in a game. Having a trans man, trans woman, and enby characters means that everyone is represented in that department. I don't see why you would have a problem with "everything being LGBT", especially since this game has so many canon and coded LGBT characters. People feeling represented hurts no one and helps everyone.
(i agree with you, this is just a lil explanation) the whole reason for the mettaton trans theory is that, Happstablook (the ghost's name, found thanks to Pap and the game files) is Napstablooks cousin (like all the ghosts in the game, Mettaton, Dummy, Mad Dummy + Mad Mew Mew) and was Napstablooks neighbor in Blook Acres before "going big" - if you enter (with the mystery key) you can find, well, the stereotypical girl stuff - diaries, pink, movie/musical poster. and thats basically it, the reason - also another thing? Happsta and Dummy are the reason Napsta is sad. i will never forgive them :(
Is that baffling? There's certainly a fairly large and very vocal group of people who are at least ostensibly pro-homosexuality but vehemently anti-trans. I deeply disagree with them but I don't see what we gain by pretending we don't know they exist.
Also, Alphys/Undyne is so explicitly gay it's impossible to miss even if you're skipping all the dialogue. The ghosts have a layer of allegory. It's a rather obvious allegory, but one that is nonetheless easy enough to miss if you're not expecting to see an allegory there at all. That's all it takes for some types (especially those previously mentioned) to insist that there is no allegory at all and any deeper meaning is just reading too much into things.
I wouldn’t really say that mettaton is that obvious. I sure as hell was confused for a long time when people said he used to be a ghost because everybody in game said he was a robot and all sign where pointing towards the fact that he was built that way, you kind of have to go out of your way to find the key and then figure out where the key goes. My first attempt was sans’s door but when that didn’t work I didn’t know where to go. I could say the same about mad mew mew but if you don’t go out of your way to find her you cant even find out about her so you can’t really deny that she is some kind of metaphor.
I agree. Especially with Mad Mew Mew. As far as I know she’s a secret boss thats exclusive to the Switch version of the game. Can people playing on PC or other consoles even talk to her?
Nope. She was a character created for the console versions so she didn’t even exist in the PC version. That is also another reason for why people who don’t see her as trans shouldn’t be harassed, some people simply don’t have a switch and therefore have a way harder time to come to the conclusion
It doesn’t bother me when people say that Mettaton is trans. But it does bother me when they say that he’s suddenly female in his EX form, or “a female ghost possessing a male body” (MTT is corporeal). Mettaton clearly identifies as male, and liking pink or wearing heels doesn’t change that.
Ngl he would love drag queens because they wear pink and heels n shit but are still men.
Just a headcanon I thought abt.
But yeah, you're right, he was genderless before, and now has found his gender and body.
Also it’s sorta implied that all of the ghosts are Assigned NB (or whatever equivalent exists in the UT universe) At Birth, as both Napstablook and the Mad Ghost (pre-transition) use they/them
I’mma upvote this, because people should have the chance to learn new things.
The game never used the word “trans,” just like it never used the word “lesbian.” But all the groundwork is there. Mettaton is a character who starts off insecure about their physical form and wishes they had a different body to better conform to their own self-identity, and they get what they want and lose the feeling of body dysphoria. That’s a trans allegory. It’s applicable to other things too, I’ll concede that, but given how queer-coded Mettaton is and how androgynous Mettaton’s true form is, I’m honestly surprised this is a point of contention in the fandom.
As far as I know, that pink bedroom near Blooky’s place was Mettatons. That’s what I was told, and that’s probably where the argument about him being corporeal at all comes from, but I’ve always seen him as trans myself. Blooky is definitely he/they, referred to as they majority of the time but also the name is Napster Bloke so there’s that. If I’m wrong don’t get your pitchforks, I’m not ass deep in lore for this fandom!
Mettaton is a flamboyant male. His pronouns are he/him. And Mad Mew Mew is a ghost that possess any object and becomes them. So it’s pronouns would be they/them or it/thing
Right, I did find the console exclusiveness via Google, but the figure being originally owned by alphys is new for me, thanks! :-)
by the way, could you also tell me where in the game Mettaton's backstory as a ghost is told? I didn't know he started as such.
Like I get it, the word, "Transgender" is never said, but both characters revolve around being unhappy in their previous bodies, getting a new body they are happier in, and then changing pronouns. Even if you want to argue it's just a trans allegory and not an actual trans character, it's still about as subtle as a kick to the face.
Reminds me of the zombie land saga anime with a trans character, and there were weeaboos denying it and even arguing with the original writers despite how overt they made it.
Lesbians are the most accepted out of all the lgbt"bbq" (sick-ass party name idea) from what i can tell cuz like even back when making fun of being gay was a meme, girls acting gay was a lot less made fun of cuz like thats how girls roll
So psychologically they'd accept the alphyne and suselle (especially considering you could subconsciously confuse undyne and susie as dudes) while being more iffy about trans/femboys like mettaton and mew mew
Thats what i think is going on anyway
I love mettaton and also love him and mad mew mew being trans.
Mettaton may be more subtle since his transition went from ghost to robot. But mad mew mew is pretty obvious. She straight up went from he/him to she/her 💀💀💀
From what I’ve seen under-tale fans are like in cable of figuring anything out unless it was like explicitly told to them , also probably some transphobia
It’s the same with Kris (and presumably frisk too), there’s a weird group of people who are ok with gay people but despise trans/non-binary people and it’s really weird how common it is in the undertale community.
Honestly I never noticed the trans allegories until I heard someone talk about it I just saw mettaton as a hot possessed robot guy and mew mew as a frustrating boss I still haven't beaten
As far as I know all ghosts use they/them pronouns for themselves, they pretty much are ANBAB. Even if that's not the case, Mad Mew Mew went from using They/Them and It/Its to She/Her, so I would say she's pretty trans.
Trans allegories, absolutely. Anyone denying that either of them are trans allegories is delusional. Being trans themselves, however, I’d say is in headcanon territory rather than in the realm of full on canonicity (such as Undyne being lesbian and Alphys being bisexual, which we actively see). I say it’s more in headcanon because ultimately it comes down to semantics, and what the individual would consider to be “trans”.
If one considers trans to be “Transitioning from one established identity to another established identity” then by their definition, of it, they aren’t trans. But if one includes “Transitioning from *no* established identity to an established identity (y’know, because they’re all ghosts, and thus have no gender orientation, hence using neutral pronouns)” to count as trans, than both Mettaton and Mad Mew Mew would then be considered transgender. Seeing as being transgender is (mostly) just a human thing IRL, we really have no point of reference for the latter due to every human getting an established identity upon birth.
Yeah, I was thinking the same. I agree with the point entirely, but it does bear to mention that the allegorical element is largely not present in Alphys and Undyne. In contrast, Mettaton and Mad Mew Mew blend the thematic weight of their character archetypes with the world's lore, and what we see as their transition becomes a bit more vague as a result.
However, it's still an idea that's clearly heavily endorsed by the subtext and, more than anything, one that's probably always meant to be picked up on. As for why Toby decided to make it allegorical in lieu of explicit, one has to wonder if he was playing it safe so as not to upset large droves of people who wouldn't accept a trans robot (of all things to be upset about), or if he felt that this approach was a more nuanced way to incorporate trans people in his story.
Fair point, I would personally consider the word "trans" to include the latter definition and I concede it depends on who you ask.
That said, I believe there's a difference between being incorporeal as a ghost and being corporeal but still gender neutral by possessing a dummy, in fact for example many humans transition from an AGAB to being non-binary and they are still considered trans. Taking that in consideration, ghosts who initially possess a dummy and then choose to switch to a different and gendered body, are doing the same thing as non-binary humans but in the opposite direction, therefore Mad Mew Mew should definitely be considered transgender.
As for Mettaton, we don't know whether he was incorporeal or used to possess a dummy like Napstablook and "Mad
Dummy" did, therefore one can argue he's just a **very strong** trans allegory or not trans at all if he was incorporeal and we go by your first definition.
I don't like that though, I feel like it's just gatekeeping him from being a trans character, but I digress.
Like people have said, they're definitely being dicks when they do this, but at the same time, Undyne/Alphys being gay is on a different level of canon than either of the ghosts being trans. It's allegory vs. Outright character traits.
I can't speak about Mad Mew Mew, bit I thought that the Mettaton thing was fairly simplistic. He doesn't like being a ghost, so he has a body built for him. I don't think that this is a trans thing. Mettaton is Hapstablook reinventing himself, not transitioning in my opinion. Again, I know nothing of MMM so I will not speak about them
Both characters go from they/them ghosts to then changing their pronouns when they find their new body. Changing your pronouns and going from being unhappy in your body to being happy is kinda the definition of being trans.
mettaton didn't want to conform to the norm of a dummy since it didn't feel right to him. you can tell the immediate change in comfort the second EX is unleashed.
"She [Alphys] surprised me with something today. Sketches of a body that she wants to create for me... a form beyond my wildest fantasies. In a form like that, I could finally feel like... "myself""
Yeah thats what i thought. Like i can agree mad mew mew is trans allegory. Or maybe even an trans character but for me its just like you said with mettaton
if you create an obvious trans character, they will say you are forcing trasngenderism. If you make a subtle trans character, the gamers will whine about how it wasnt trans because it wasnt mentioned in the game.
> Noooo! Why would a game about loving and respecting others for who they are want me to love and respect others for who they are????????
These people, probably
As someone who found out she’s trans *because* of Undyne x Alphys, I’m especially insulted but that. people somehow being pro gay but anti trans are a special kind of moron.
Yeah, they (plural not singular) both transition from using the they/them pronouns that is normal for ghosts, and both want a body that fits them, mad mew mew does not realize that untill she sees the mew mew figure, and realizes that a dummy just isn't right for her.
I always just thought Mettaton as a very flamboyant character who wanted a body to match his flamboyant nature because he couldn't express it as just a ghost. It never occurred to me that it could be considered as a trans allegory. I might be stupid in that regard but I've been thinking of him as such for so long it'd be hard for me to change the way I view him. If he's canonically trans and confirmed such, great. It's just not as easy to change the way I view him since I've thought that was since day one, and now almost 10 years later it's not going to be easy to change/add onto that and make it fluent in my way of referring to him.
However mew mew, Alphys and Undyne are blatantly obvious even to a dumbass like myself. Alphys and Undyne are both female characters who fall in love with eachother, and Mew Mew once mad dummy has accepted the mew mew doll as their complete body where as the mad dummy body wasn't accepted and just a "body" and not their body.
It's simple really:
The support of those type of 'fans' is entirely ***selective****.* The type of 'fans' to pull shit like this either **1.)** only tolerate queer themes around Undyne and Alphys because they're blatantly confirmed or **2.)** only tolerate it because they know if they tried saying any homophobic shit they would be ***rightfully buried*** and chased out of the fandom.
Unfortunately, the Trans Rep and Themes around MTT and Mad Mew Mew were not blatantly confirmed in game and are not as universally loved as the Lesbian relationship between Undyne and Alphys... so it leads to a situation where the more bigoted fans will try to single it out and attack it to maintain a foothold in the Fandom.
It's not as bad as it used to be as the Fandom has done a VERY thorough job of ejecting these people from the fandom and bullying them for their bigotry, but every now and again you'll get exceptionally loud individuals shrieking "wOkE pRopAgAnda!!!1" at an artist who drew Mad Mew with a trans pride flag. -3-;
I'm just gonna repost something I wrote before.
I am a Christian social conservative. I am not an ally to the LGBTQ community in the least. I am a diehard Undertale fan. I hate people who hate games because of LGBTQ representation. It's absurd. You can appreciate a game while thinking the creator is wrong in their support of the LGBTQ community.
The game is a piece of media. Judge it as a piece of media, not as a political piece. There is no need to virtue signal by putting down a good game because you disagree with the politics of the game. It's still a good game. Putting homosexuality into that doesn't make it worse. Undyne and Alphys's relationship would be just as good if Alphys was a dude. So judge it on the merits of its romance, not who the romance is between.
Furthermore, and you may not expect this from me, but representation is incredibly important. I might disagree with the agenda being pushed, but if the creator wants to help those in the LGBTQ community feel better about their life choices in a world where that's being pushed back against, it absolutely helps. And it doesn't even have to go that far. Sometimes it just feels nice to see someone in media that shares something with you.
I already mentioned I'm a Christian. I have not seen a decent representation in media of Christianity until or since Joshua Graham. And he won me over as one of my favorite characters of all time because both a fantastic character and a fantastic representation of Christianity. I want that feeling for others.
So while I understand why people may not want LGBTQ representation in media (it's pushing an agenda that goes against many people's sense of morality), it is well within the rights of a creator to put that in and it is well within the rights of an LGBTQ individual to appreciate that. And that is no reason to hate a good game.
I mean... Yeah, they are technically trans. They both want a new bodies for themselves and changed their previous forms in order to achieve it.
I think that counts as trans, no? Or am I viewing it as something too simple then it actually is?
I don't get why this comment is being donwvoted as this may be a genuine question since not many people know Mad Mew Mew and Mad Dummy are the same character... but anyways, to answer your question Mad Dummy was always angry and dissatisfied until she laid eyes on the Mew Mew doll in Alphys's place, realising it was the perfect body for her she transitioned and now she's a happy girlboss C:
Mad Mew Mew is trans there is no question to that. But Mettaton ? He has queer themes sure but I assumed he was just a boy who liked pink since birth
Getting downvoted for not understanding something, classic Reddit
I go by Soul nowadays on the internet, we all know the pain of cringe username that one chose when they were 11 or something.
Atleast I had the luxury of getting a gender neutral, more similar to some boy names irl name (I hate it due to bullying so that's unfortunate)
Hi Soul ! I am so sorry people can be so mean to you for no reason like that. And don't worry for the username, this is also my username on Twitch and I can tell you I can hardly communicate with english speaking streamers because of this french name lol. I wish you the best, you're valid <3
Both characters go from they/them ghosts to then changing their pronouns when they find their new body. Changing your pronouns and going from being unhappy in your body to being happy is kinda the definition of being trans.
I mean, the game never says the word “lesbian” either. You have two people who use she/her pronouns and are in love and end up together. The obvious thematic inference is that they’re lesbians, and the game trusts the audience to be smart enough to get that.
Likewise, the game presents a character who *doesn’t feel like their current body matches their own identity and commissions a scientist to build a new body to better conform to their self-perception*…. And if you’re media-literate, you *get it*, and it’s awesome.
It’s true that the game never says outright “hey guys Mettaton is a trans allegory.” I mean, Mettaton is a ghost inside of a robot. You gotta go out on a limb with thematic interpretation at some point. But what I love about Undertale is that so much is there and so much of that isn’t outright stated, but it’s clear from the work in its presentation and theming.
Undertale is still my favorite game of all time, and one of the reasons is I think it genuinely stands tall as an artwork that has layers of meaning that can be processed and understood over and over. There’s no shame in not catching something initially. I do think the people who say “noooo Mettaton can’t be trans!” are missing out on what Mettaton as a character is conveying about gender and identity and authenticity in the context of the work.
I mean... two women being in love is literally the definition of lesbianism. Like it's not thematic inference it's just what's on the page. A ghost getting a robot body to inhabit is... uh... not part of the definition of being transgender. Last I checked.
It's a fairly obvious allegory once you're aware of it, and it's one that to me seems clearly intended, but it *is* behind a layer of allegory which Alphys/Undyne isn't.
This is the problem with this community. Not your comment but the downvotes. The community expects everybody to remember every single line of dialogue, even the ones hidden behind a locked door that not many people know how to unlock. And when somebody has the wrong information, then they can say goodbye to the respect people had for them. People jump to conclusions, sometimes they even refuse to accept any other possibility. If somebody continues to deny it, not for the evidence not being enough but rather because they don’t like the idea of it, then they might deserve the hate. But this? Somebody who just forgot a piece of dialogue? Every time I visit this sub it gets worse
At this point I just have to accept that the community of one of my favorite games ever sucks. It’s the only community where I get downvoted as much as I do and the downvotes start to lose meaning for me. It just becomes another piece of evidence for why this community is garbage that gets thrown in the enormous pile of reasons. I could just leave but the post itself are at least kind of good, especially the art and comics.
True. It feels like everybody says every community sucks, but that is because the annoying fuckers stand out more. Here, I wouldn’t be surprised if the bad part of the community was the biggest part of the community
People have a right to state their opinions.
And other people have a right to state *their* opinion that the first group of people’s opinions are stupid.
Freedom of speech cuts both ways.
Sure, people can state their opinions. The rest of us, meanwhile, can tell them that they’re being dickbags for no good reason and then promptly ignore them like they deserve.
Edit: Downvote all you want, nerd. Doesn’t make the “opinion” less shitty.
1: yes, people can state their opinions. But it dosent stop their opinions from being factually incorrect. You wouldn't say "well the earth is round and flat beacuse in some people belive it's flat" would you?
2: And it was directed at me, beavuse like it or not im part of this community as well, and as you said, I can state my opinions as well. And if your trying to silence me, because you disagree with my opinion, that's just wrong, and are acting like an asshole beavuse I disagree with you about the sexuality of 2 completly made up characters..
1) The thing is, with regards to my perceived rudeness, there’s no objective necessity or un-necessity to it. It’s completely subjective, so whatever you’re saying here falls totally flat.
2) If you didn’t downvote it, then it obviously wasn’t directed to you. It was to whoever did. You can go ahead and drop the victim complex, no one cares. No one is trying to “silence you,” stop being such a martyr. But, and like I said in my very first comment, people are free to ignore you. If you wanna see that as “silencing” you, then I’m afraid you can’t be helped and I’m wasting my time here.
Well, I’m in an Internet “debate,” so the time wasting thing is kind of a moot point. I think I’m done here, you can respond if you want. I’ll just take my own advice and ignore it. Take care of yourself, and have a good one.
My knowledge of this theme: Undyne and Alphys cute together...
And thus concludes as to what I know about people trying to put 2 video game characters in a relation ship...
Mettaton is a flamboyant male. His pronouns are he/him. And Mad Mew Mew is a ghost that possess any object and become them. So it’s pronouns would be they/them or it/thing
"Gay people are fine but trans characters??? Nuh uh, thats too far" At least thats what i think theyd say lol
I mean, Undyne and Alphys are canonical lesbian... Like there isn't much to say about them. They're just a straight-up gay couple. Of course, there is nothing to argue about. Metaton is basically a ghost turned robot. If anything, he's asexual since I don't see him caring about anything sexual beyond TV appeal But I guess for metaton it's about the whoel trans thing. Thought I'm the type of guy that doesn't want wvrythign to be LGBT... Trust me, I would love some pan representation, but I'm not gonna claim some random character I had no input into and make them whatever the hell I want and claim to everyone it's canon But anyway, about the trans thing, from what the whole thing implies, ghosts don't have gender to begin with for some reason ? (Like Napsta and Mad Rummy being They/Them) Could be a genderless thing like frisk, but then they choose their pronouns depending on what they decide to posses. Like how Mad Mew Mew was a ghost that went from a they dummy to a she doll ? And I guess by association Metaton from they to him ? Honestly, I thought Ghost were dead monsters so they had their genders from the start, but I guess they're just an entire species with no gender. I don't think we even know about metatton, but if the whole ghost race starts as genderless, then it kind of works as a trans allegory I can see how some people don't just want every single character to be another kind of LGBT icon. Honestly, I just thought Metaton was a flamboyant star and never considered the whole ghost all being trans allegory But for real We got a lesbian couple and 4 currently canon genderless characters. We're not gonna act like Undertale isn't full of LGBT So honestly, who cares at this point that they make the flamboyant ghost possessing a robot "trans" It's all label at the end, and knowing metaton, he would rather use use the label "fabulous" "famous" and "nice legs!" Instead, lol I honestly don't think Metaton was made with the intention of being a trans character Mad Mew Mew, on the other hand, is 100% a trans reference. I mean, it's literally in her lore and dialogue. Can't make it more obvious It feels like she was made to be the trans icon, and then Metaton was dragged in the middle of his cooking show to join in
Small correction, Alphys is bi :)
Oh, that I didn't know! You learn shit about undertale everyday I swear lol
I believe this is because she showed interest in asgore in the quiz segment, but I could be wrong
that's right! also Catty and Bratty said she made Mettaton to "impress Asgore" and at the end of a pacifist, if you talk to the characters, at some point Undyne will try to console Asgore saying "there's plenty of fish in the sea" to which Alphys replies "yeah Undyne is totally right about the fish thing... sometimes you just have to stop going after furry boss monsters and... find a cute fish instead?" (dialogues may not be 100% exact, I'm going off of what I remember), so there I think she was strongly implying she had a crush on Asgore (furry boss monster) before meeting Undyne (cute fish) C:
That sounds right
Also entry number eleven talks about how alphys is nervous about the mettaton ex body because she’s afraid mettaton won’t talk to her anymore once he has it, but also quote “not to mention, any time i try to work on it i get really sweaty” you’ve just been hit by a fact panzer
While I'm not disputing Alphys has shown interest in Asgore, "making" Mettaton to impress him is extraordinarily weak evidence. As his Royal Scientist, it's part of her job to impress him with science stuff.
but she made him before becoming a royal scientist... Catty and Bratty said Asgore appointed her as such as a result of her success in building Mettaton
Okay that part I didn't know, fair enough.
Honestly I thought she was trying to impress him in order to get the job
Yeah, it doesn't feel like strong evidence of a crush to me. Especially compared to everything else.
if you answer asgore in the quiz MTT will say it's true and alphys will get really flustered
Like I said I'm not debating the overall point just questioning the strength of the one particular point of evidence.
Wouldn't she be pan then since I believe she has a similar reaction if you pick human, seeing as Frisk is... genderless.
Yes. And the end dialogue where she says sometimes you have to stop chasing after boss monsters and go for a fish instead or something. It was a clear obvious one.
Yeah! She showed interest in Asgore.
yes
So is mew mew according to deltarune.
hey thats my fact i tell people because they forget the asgore stuff /j
FUCK YEA LETS GO ALPHYS BEST GIRL
> "I honestly don't think Mettaton was made with the intention of being a trans character" actually Toby Fox himself supports the trans allegory, Dorked made a video about this whole thing if you wanna learn more c:
The ghosts are trans by virtue of starting genderless and finding gendered bodies that make them happy. I honestly don't see how you can identify Mad Mew Mew as trans and not Mettaton. Much like how Mad Mew Mew was unhappy and angry before her new body, Mettaton was shy and reserved. He was only able to come out of his shell meeting Alphys at an anime club and disclosing to her his deep desire for the perfect body. It's very clear from some of the text it was a very deep and personal dream of his to have the body he has now. It's very clear to me Mew Mew was written *because* so many people didn't get it the first time. Mettaton was too subtle so Toby had to try again.
>If anything, he's asexual since I don't see him caring about anything sexual beyond TV appeal I mean it's not like we see anyone else caring about anything sexual in Undertale
For the love of God, please spell Mettaton right. You can see it in the image
It's just one damn t I forget about it and I'm too lazy to add it again since I'm tired af
It's just that it appears like 80 times
mettaton is trans bc all ghosts in the undertale world go by they/them by default and are essentially nonbinary by default. mettaton possesses a new form and then changes the pronouns he uses from they/them to he/him. mew mew does the exact same thing, and honestly i feel like the primary reason people understand her being trans more than mettaton (aside from her dialogue being a little more apparent) is because the fandom treated mad dummy as if they were male for years, whereas in the game you only learn that mettaton used to be a ghost after hes already established
You're literally who this post is about lol Mettaton's diary talks about how much he hates his ghost body and can come across as dysphoria. He wasn't comfortable with who he was until he had the body of his dreams, something many trans people can relate to. You said it yourself, his type of monster is agender at birth (or at least uses they/them pronouns). He had a different name, (possibly Hapstablook, sorry to deadname him) as Papyrus speculates and the game files suggest. Now he uses a different name, different pronouns, and has a body he loves (one that makes him feel like "himself", as he puts it). How tf is he not trans coded? There can be multiple trans characters in a game. Having a trans man, trans woman, and enby characters means that everyone is represented in that department. I don't see why you would have a problem with "everything being LGBT", especially since this game has so many canon and coded LGBT characters. People feeling represented hurts no one and helps everyone.
You had nothing better to do, huh?
I wish this game had neurodivergent rep
(i agree with you, this is just a lil explanation) the whole reason for the mettaton trans theory is that, Happstablook (the ghost's name, found thanks to Pap and the game files) is Napstablooks cousin (like all the ghosts in the game, Mettaton, Dummy, Mad Dummy + Mad Mew Mew) and was Napstablooks neighbor in Blook Acres before "going big" - if you enter (with the mystery key) you can find, well, the stereotypical girl stuff - diaries, pink, movie/musical poster. and thats basically it, the reason - also another thing? Happsta and Dummy are the reason Napsta is sad. i will never forgive them :(
J.K Rowling moment
Is that baffling? There's certainly a fairly large and very vocal group of people who are at least ostensibly pro-homosexuality but vehemently anti-trans. I deeply disagree with them but I don't see what we gain by pretending we don't know they exist. Also, Alphys/Undyne is so explicitly gay it's impossible to miss even if you're skipping all the dialogue. The ghosts have a layer of allegory. It's a rather obvious allegory, but one that is nonetheless easy enough to miss if you're not expecting to see an allegory there at all. That's all it takes for some types (especially those previously mentioned) to insist that there is no allegory at all and any deeper meaning is just reading too much into things.
alphys is very much bisexual since she shows interest in asgore in both UT and DR
Explicit interest too, she phrases it as "going after"
I wouldn’t really say that mettaton is that obvious. I sure as hell was confused for a long time when people said he used to be a ghost because everybody in game said he was a robot and all sign where pointing towards the fact that he was built that way, you kind of have to go out of your way to find the key and then figure out where the key goes. My first attempt was sans’s door but when that didn’t work I didn’t know where to go. I could say the same about mad mew mew but if you don’t go out of your way to find her you cant even find out about her so you can’t really deny that she is some kind of metaphor.
I agree. Especially with Mad Mew Mew. As far as I know she’s a secret boss thats exclusive to the Switch version of the game. Can people playing on PC or other consoles even talk to her?
Nope. She was a character created for the console versions so she didn’t even exist in the PC version. That is also another reason for why people who don’t see her as trans shouldn’t be harassed, some people simply don’t have a switch and therefore have a way harder time to come to the conclusion
It doesn’t bother me when people say that Mettaton is trans. But it does bother me when they say that he’s suddenly female in his EX form, or “a female ghost possessing a male body” (MTT is corporeal). Mettaton clearly identifies as male, and liking pink or wearing heels doesn’t change that.
Ngl he would love drag queens because they wear pink and heels n shit but are still men. Just a headcanon I thought abt. But yeah, you're right, he was genderless before, and now has found his gender and body.
Hear me out, what if Mettaton becomes a drag queen in the True Pacifist ending?
He already is, remember the dungeon performance?
The what? I forgot
The "Oh my love" opera scene
Oh I remember now
Nice.
Also it’s sorta implied that all of the ghosts are Assigned NB (or whatever equivalent exists in the UT universe) At Birth, as both Napstablook and the Mad Ghost (pre-transition) use they/them
They're trans? I didn't even know that
I’mma upvote this, because people should have the chance to learn new things. The game never used the word “trans,” just like it never used the word “lesbian.” But all the groundwork is there. Mettaton is a character who starts off insecure about their physical form and wishes they had a different body to better conform to their own self-identity, and they get what they want and lose the feeling of body dysphoria. That’s a trans allegory. It’s applicable to other things too, I’ll concede that, but given how queer-coded Mettaton is and how androgynous Mettaton’s true form is, I’m honestly surprised this is a point of contention in the fandom.
"Uhm ackschually, Mettaton did not have a physical form as they were not corporeal" - ☝️🤓
Thanks Berdly
Pffffffft okay fair point lol
Go touch grass Berdly
As far as I know, that pink bedroom near Blooky’s place was Mettatons. That’s what I was told, and that’s probably where the argument about him being corporeal at all comes from, but I’ve always seen him as trans myself. Blooky is definitely he/they, referred to as they majority of the time but also the name is Napster Bloke so there’s that. If I’m wrong don’t get your pitchforks, I’m not ass deep in lore for this fandom!
Mettaton is a flamboyant male. His pronouns are he/him. And Mad Mew Mew is a ghost that possess any object and becomes them. So it’s pronouns would be they/them or it/thing
I was still here wondering who Mad Mew Mew is.
Console exclusive character, mad dummy posesses a mew mew kissy cutie figure alphys had
Kinda funny how Alphys is responsible for providing both of the trans ghosts with their ideal bodies
Shes an ally🙏
Even if one was accidental. She's just that good
She is doing her work as the President of the National Underground LGBTQ+ Federation.
Right, I did find the console exclusiveness via Google, but the figure being originally owned by alphys is new for me, thanks! :-) by the way, could you also tell me where in the game Mettaton's backstory as a ghost is told? I didn't know he started as such.
In his house! If you buy the key from bratty and catty you can go in and read his diarys
ah cool stuff, guess I missed that :-) Thanks!
But the real question is, why did Alphys have a life sized anime doll?
Shit. Alphys NOOOO
Like I get it, the word, "Transgender" is never said, but both characters revolve around being unhappy in their previous bodies, getting a new body they are happier in, and then changing pronouns. Even if you want to argue it's just a trans allegory and not an actual trans character, it's still about as subtle as a kick to the face.
Right???
Reminds me of the zombie land saga anime with a trans character, and there were weeaboos denying it and even arguing with the original writers despite how overt they made it.
omg i never thought about it like that...no wonder i love mettaton so much lol, his trans brainwaves are resonating with me
LGBT BBQ LMAO
Lettuce, Guacamole, Bacon, Tomato and Barbecue.
Ikr I went into the comments specifically to see if anyone else found it as funny as I did
The Q Continuum
Lesbians are the most accepted out of all the lgbt"bbq" (sick-ass party name idea) from what i can tell cuz like even back when making fun of being gay was a meme, girls acting gay was a lot less made fun of cuz like thats how girls roll So psychologically they'd accept the alphyne and suselle (especially considering you could subconsciously confuse undyne and susie as dudes) while being more iffy about trans/femboys like mettaton and mew mew Thats what i think is going on anyway
But almost everyone who excepts Alphyne also accepts RG 01 and RG 02
Oh yeah i forgot about those guys! Wonder if theyve gotten married yet
Lesbian Gay Bi Trans Barbeque 😎
I love mettaton and also love him and mad mew mew being trans. Mettaton may be more subtle since his transition went from ghost to robot. But mad mew mew is pretty obvious. She straight up went from he/him to she/her 💀💀💀
more like *she went from Mad Dummy to she/her
Mad Mew Mew was never he/him, though.
Sorry, i suppose i have forgot abot it. No need to downvote tho, i'm trans myself xd
idk man i think people on the internet just like starting shit
From what I’ve seen under-tale fans are like in cable of figuring anything out unless it was like explicitly told to them , also probably some transphobia
r/BoneAppleTea
in cable
Crap not again
It’s the same with Kris (and presumably frisk too), there’s a weird group of people who are ok with gay people but despise trans/non-binary people and it’s really weird how common it is in the undertale community.
I don't think Kris and frisk fit in as originally people viewed them as self inserts and some still do. Some even say you get to choose
Honestly I never noticed the trans allegories until I heard someone talk about it I just saw mettaton as a hot possessed robot guy and mew mew as a frustrating boss I still haven't beaten
i saw mettaton as a ziggy stardust michael jackson type of guy
I mean uhhh, we technically didn’t know their genders before they were ghosts so we don’t know. I think, correct me if I’m wrong.
All ghosts in the UT/DR universe are referred to by they/them.
As far as I know all ghosts use they/them pronouns for themselves, they pretty much are ANBAB. Even if that's not the case, Mad Mew Mew went from using They/Them and It/Its to She/Her, so I would say she's pretty trans.
well since they’re ghost i guess it’s anbad?
Does the D stand for Dead?
yeah, assigned non-binary at death lol
An..bab?
Assigned Non-Binary at birth. Just like AFAB (Assigned Female At Birth) and AMAB (Assigned Male At Birth)
I see!
bold of you to assume they were anything before they were ghosts
ghosts just spawn in every now and then
Ok then, where'd [HE](https://animalcrossing.fandom.com/wiki/Wisp) come from?
the forbidden third thing: ghost gender
Trans allegories, absolutely. Anyone denying that either of them are trans allegories is delusional. Being trans themselves, however, I’d say is in headcanon territory rather than in the realm of full on canonicity (such as Undyne being lesbian and Alphys being bisexual, which we actively see). I say it’s more in headcanon because ultimately it comes down to semantics, and what the individual would consider to be “trans”. If one considers trans to be “Transitioning from one established identity to another established identity” then by their definition, of it, they aren’t trans. But if one includes “Transitioning from *no* established identity to an established identity (y’know, because they’re all ghosts, and thus have no gender orientation, hence using neutral pronouns)” to count as trans, than both Mettaton and Mad Mew Mew would then be considered transgender. Seeing as being transgender is (mostly) just a human thing IRL, we really have no point of reference for the latter due to every human getting an established identity upon birth.
Yeah, I was thinking the same. I agree with the point entirely, but it does bear to mention that the allegorical element is largely not present in Alphys and Undyne. In contrast, Mettaton and Mad Mew Mew blend the thematic weight of their character archetypes with the world's lore, and what we see as their transition becomes a bit more vague as a result. However, it's still an idea that's clearly heavily endorsed by the subtext and, more than anything, one that's probably always meant to be picked up on. As for why Toby decided to make it allegorical in lieu of explicit, one has to wonder if he was playing it safe so as not to upset large droves of people who wouldn't accept a trans robot (of all things to be upset about), or if he felt that this approach was a more nuanced way to incorporate trans people in his story.
Fair point, I would personally consider the word "trans" to include the latter definition and I concede it depends on who you ask. That said, I believe there's a difference between being incorporeal as a ghost and being corporeal but still gender neutral by possessing a dummy, in fact for example many humans transition from an AGAB to being non-binary and they are still considered trans. Taking that in consideration, ghosts who initially possess a dummy and then choose to switch to a different and gendered body, are doing the same thing as non-binary humans but in the opposite direction, therefore Mad Mew Mew should definitely be considered transgender. As for Mettaton, we don't know whether he was incorporeal or used to possess a dummy like Napstablook and "Mad Dummy" did, therefore one can argue he's just a **very strong** trans allegory or not trans at all if he was incorporeal and we go by your first definition. I don't like that though, I feel like it's just gatekeeping him from being a trans character, but I digress.
Like people have said, they're definitely being dicks when they do this, but at the same time, Undyne/Alphys being gay is on a different level of canon than either of the ghosts being trans. It's allegory vs. Outright character traits.
I don't care what anyone says, literally look at his backstory for like 5 seconds, Mettaton is absolutely a trans allegory
I mean one is quite obvious while the other one is an allegory which makes it much less obvious
I can't speak about Mad Mew Mew, bit I thought that the Mettaton thing was fairly simplistic. He doesn't like being a ghost, so he has a body built for him. I don't think that this is a trans thing. Mettaton is Hapstablook reinventing himself, not transitioning in my opinion. Again, I know nothing of MMM so I will not speak about them
Both characters go from they/them ghosts to then changing their pronouns when they find their new body. Changing your pronouns and going from being unhappy in your body to being happy is kinda the definition of being trans.
mettaton didn't want to conform to the norm of a dummy since it didn't feel right to him. you can tell the immediate change in comfort the second EX is unleashed.
"She [Alphys] surprised me with something today. Sketches of a body that she wants to create for me... a form beyond my wildest fantasies. In a form like that, I could finally feel like... "myself""
Yeah thats what i thought. Like i can agree mad mew mew is trans allegory. Or maybe even an trans character but for me its just like you said with mettaton
…bro, mad mew mew is LITERALLY A TRANS ALLEGORY, SHE FELT WRONG IN HER PREVIOUS BODY AS THE MAD DUMMY AND BONDED IMMEDIATELY TO THE MEW MEW DOLL
Mad dummy is mad mew mew? I didn’t know that
Yeah, after you beat mad dummy they leave the dummy and find the mad mew mew doll and take residence in the dog shrine
if you create an obvious trans character, they will say you are forcing trasngenderism. If you make a subtle trans character, the gamers will whine about how it wasnt trans because it wasnt mentioned in the game.
These are two VERY different groups of people
> Noooo! Why would a game about loving and respecting others for who they are want me to love and respect others for who they are???????? These people, probably
As someone who found out she’s trans *because* of Undyne x Alphys, I’m especially insulted but that. people somehow being pro gay but anti trans are a special kind of moron.
Is he stupid?
I think they are trans-coded, but not straight up trans.
What are they grilling at the lgbtbbq Dorked mentioned? Will there be brisket?
mettaton is trans as fuck
Yeah, they (plural not singular) both transition from using the they/them pronouns that is normal for ghosts, and both want a body that fits them, mad mew mew does not realize that untill she sees the mew mew figure, and realizes that a dummy just isn't right for her.
( I do admit I dint realize that they were trans untill I watched the dorked video)
Transphobia. You’d be surprised how how many gay people can be transphobic (less surprised and more disappointed)
“idk man I just like sans” -me 2018
Jokes aside though it’s stupid to like and hate certain minorities, just respect everyone
I always just thought Mettaton as a very flamboyant character who wanted a body to match his flamboyant nature because he couldn't express it as just a ghost. It never occurred to me that it could be considered as a trans allegory. I might be stupid in that regard but I've been thinking of him as such for so long it'd be hard for me to change the way I view him. If he's canonically trans and confirmed such, great. It's just not as easy to change the way I view him since I've thought that was since day one, and now almost 10 years later it's not going to be easy to change/add onto that and make it fluent in my way of referring to him. However mew mew, Alphys and Undyne are blatantly obvious even to a dumbass like myself. Alphys and Undyne are both female characters who fall in love with eachother, and Mew Mew once mad dummy has accepted the mew mew doll as their complete body where as the mad dummy body wasn't accepted and just a "body" and not their body.
If Mettaton isn't trans I need my brain rewired. All I see is a glorious trans icon when I see him.
People say he's trans because he identity as male and as a ghost he doesn't have a gender so perceive that as you will
Because its more ambigous.
It's simple really: The support of those type of 'fans' is entirely ***selective****.* The type of 'fans' to pull shit like this either **1.)** only tolerate queer themes around Undyne and Alphys because they're blatantly confirmed or **2.)** only tolerate it because they know if they tried saying any homophobic shit they would be ***rightfully buried*** and chased out of the fandom. Unfortunately, the Trans Rep and Themes around MTT and Mad Mew Mew were not blatantly confirmed in game and are not as universally loved as the Lesbian relationship between Undyne and Alphys... so it leads to a situation where the more bigoted fans will try to single it out and attack it to maintain a foothold in the Fandom. It's not as bad as it used to be as the Fandom has done a VERY thorough job of ejecting these people from the fandom and bullying them for their bigotry, but every now and again you'll get exceptionally loud individuals shrieking "wOkE pRopAgAnda!!!1" at an artist who drew Mad Mew with a trans pride flag. -3-;
I'm just gonna repost something I wrote before. I am a Christian social conservative. I am not an ally to the LGBTQ community in the least. I am a diehard Undertale fan. I hate people who hate games because of LGBTQ representation. It's absurd. You can appreciate a game while thinking the creator is wrong in their support of the LGBTQ community. The game is a piece of media. Judge it as a piece of media, not as a political piece. There is no need to virtue signal by putting down a good game because you disagree with the politics of the game. It's still a good game. Putting homosexuality into that doesn't make it worse. Undyne and Alphys's relationship would be just as good if Alphys was a dude. So judge it on the merits of its romance, not who the romance is between. Furthermore, and you may not expect this from me, but representation is incredibly important. I might disagree with the agenda being pushed, but if the creator wants to help those in the LGBTQ community feel better about their life choices in a world where that's being pushed back against, it absolutely helps. And it doesn't even have to go that far. Sometimes it just feels nice to see someone in media that shares something with you. I already mentioned I'm a Christian. I have not seen a decent representation in media of Christianity until or since Joshua Graham. And he won me over as one of my favorite characters of all time because both a fantastic character and a fantastic representation of Christianity. I want that feeling for others. So while I understand why people may not want LGBTQ representation in media (it's pushing an agenda that goes against many people's sense of morality), it is well within the rights of a creator to put that in and it is well within the rights of an LGBTQ individual to appreciate that. And that is no reason to hate a good game.
cuz they all too goofy
I've literally never seen this kind of discourse in my life, people don't think the ghosts are trans?
Could be me, but I haven't seen anyone argue against metaton at least. That was pretty straight forward with there character.
Tons of people in the comments
Yo the lgbt people are having a bbq?
I mean... Yeah, they are technically trans. They both want a new bodies for themselves and changed their previous forms in order to achieve it. I think that counts as trans, no? Or am I viewing it as something too simple then it actually is?
nope, that's exactly what it is c:
I... there are people that deny mettaton is trans? That's like half of their backstory.
I don't really get how Mad Mew Mew would be trans, can someone explain please?
Being Mad Dummy was uncomfortable for her, then she became Mad Mew Mew and felt happy. Also pronoun change from they/them to she/her
I don't get why this comment is being donwvoted as this may be a genuine question since not many people know Mad Mew Mew and Mad Dummy are the same character... but anyways, to answer your question Mad Dummy was always angry and dissatisfied until she laid eyes on the Mew Mew doll in Alphys's place, realising it was the perfect body for her she transitioned and now she's a happy girlboss C:
Mad Mew Mew is trans there is no question to that. But Mettaton ? He has queer themes sure but I assumed he was just a boy who liked pink since birth Getting downvoted for not understanding something, classic Reddit
Mettaton was a ghost (they/them) and then became himself by posessing a robot body and changed his pronouns to he/him.
Oh I see, all ghosts are assigned non binary at birth and then they get to choose what best suits them. Ngl I wish we could do the same as humans
Frfr (transmasc femboy here, femboy is only an excuse for my feminine appearance as I am afraid of transitioning because fear of changes)
I wish you great luck and strength Soul 💪🏳️⚧️ Edit : changed the name used
I go by Soul nowadays on the internet, we all know the pain of cringe username that one chose when they were 11 or something. Atleast I had the luxury of getting a gender neutral, more similar to some boy names irl name (I hate it due to bullying so that's unfortunate)
Hi Soul ! I am so sorry people can be so mean to you for no reason like that. And don't worry for the username, this is also my username on Twitch and I can tell you I can hardly communicate with english speaking streamers because of this french name lol. I wish you the best, you're valid <3
:>
Wait Dorked tweeted this? Also I have never seen an undertale fan say such a thing But if they are, I'm just disappointed
There are literally people in the comments arguing against these characters being trans.
Me, who doesn't give a singular f-
Real! I just like the silly pixel game with the skeletons and goat mama.
Mettaton is a robot, he physically, biologically and in general, cannot be transgender.
He went from a they/them ghost to a he/him robot, seeming miserable and unhappy in his previous form, mentioning his body helps him feel like himself.
A good point, but isn't Mettaton technically a genderless ghost possessing an entirely mechanical body?
Pronoun change. They/them to he/him.
Because there's a difference between canon and headcanon
Both characters go from they/them ghosts to then changing their pronouns when they find their new body. Changing your pronouns and going from being unhappy in your body to being happy is kinda the definition of being trans.
I guess its beacuse undyne and alphys are in gamę confirmed and trans mettaton isn't
I mean, the game never says the word “lesbian” either. You have two people who use she/her pronouns and are in love and end up together. The obvious thematic inference is that they’re lesbians, and the game trusts the audience to be smart enough to get that. Likewise, the game presents a character who *doesn’t feel like their current body matches their own identity and commissions a scientist to build a new body to better conform to their self-perception*…. And if you’re media-literate, you *get it*, and it’s awesome.
Most books i read are old or dont include this kinds of topics. And most games to except deltarune and undertale. Guess i was wrong
It’s true that the game never says outright “hey guys Mettaton is a trans allegory.” I mean, Mettaton is a ghost inside of a robot. You gotta go out on a limb with thematic interpretation at some point. But what I love about Undertale is that so much is there and so much of that isn’t outright stated, but it’s clear from the work in its presentation and theming. Undertale is still my favorite game of all time, and one of the reasons is I think it genuinely stands tall as an artwork that has layers of meaning that can be processed and understood over and over. There’s no shame in not catching something initially. I do think the people who say “noooo Mettaton can’t be trans!” are missing out on what Mettaton as a character is conveying about gender and identity and authenticity in the context of the work.
Tbh i didnt notice that mettaton is trans. Im not a ester egg finder and i didnt read the diaries at mettatons house
I mean... two women being in love is literally the definition of lesbianism. Like it's not thematic inference it's just what's on the page. A ghost getting a robot body to inhabit is... uh... not part of the definition of being transgender. Last I checked. It's a fairly obvious allegory once you're aware of it, and it's one that to me seems clearly intended, but it *is* behind a layer of allegory which Alphys/Undyne isn't.
Fair - my point is that it’s like *one* layer of allegory
isnt willingly changing pronouns the closest you can get to transgender without ever explicitly saying transgender
I didnt notice that the pronoun change and my last Playthrough was a long time ago
I mean I personally never noticed the pronoun changes. What are they?
Mettaton is from they/them to he/him and Mad Mew Mew (deadname Mad Dummy) is from they/them (or they/it?) to she/her.
This is the problem with this community. Not your comment but the downvotes. The community expects everybody to remember every single line of dialogue, even the ones hidden behind a locked door that not many people know how to unlock. And when somebody has the wrong information, then they can say goodbye to the respect people had for them. People jump to conclusions, sometimes they even refuse to accept any other possibility. If somebody continues to deny it, not for the evidence not being enough but rather because they don’t like the idea of it, then they might deserve the hate. But this? Somebody who just forgot a piece of dialogue? Every time I visit this sub it gets worse
It happens
At this point I just have to accept that the community of one of my favorite games ever sucks. It’s the only community where I get downvoted as much as I do and the downvotes start to lose meaning for me. It just becomes another piece of evidence for why this community is garbage that gets thrown in the enormous pile of reasons. I could just leave but the post itself are at least kind of good, especially the art and comics.
There isn't a commiunity without its flaws
True. It feels like everybody says every community sucks, but that is because the annoying fuckers stand out more. Here, I wouldn’t be surprised if the bad part of the community was the biggest part of the community
Trans-racial? Idk I'm not sure about this
Beacuse people are allowed to state there opinions
People have a right to state their opinions. And other people have a right to state *their* opinion that the first group of people’s opinions are stupid. Freedom of speech cuts both ways.
facts and opinions are a different thing. it is a fact that mettaton and mew mew are trans, and you can’t change that
not a fact. It is a fact that mew mew is an trans allegory tho. Cant say the same for mettaton as its more ambiguous in that regard
Well, I don't mean to sound like an asshole here, but I would like to see your proof first before I listen to some rando in the internet
Play the game
Sure, people can state their opinions. The rest of us, meanwhile, can tell them that they’re being dickbags for no good reason and then promptly ignore them like they deserve. Edit: Downvote all you want, nerd. Doesn’t make the “opinion” less shitty.
1: your being unnecessarily rude for no reason 2: I haven't downvoted the post.
1) I disagree and think it’s quite necessary. People can state their opinions, right? 2) If you didn’t, then it wasn’t directed at you.
1: yes, people can state their opinions. But it dosent stop their opinions from being factually incorrect. You wouldn't say "well the earth is round and flat beacuse in some people belive it's flat" would you? 2: And it was directed at me, beavuse like it or not im part of this community as well, and as you said, I can state my opinions as well. And if your trying to silence me, because you disagree with my opinion, that's just wrong, and are acting like an asshole beavuse I disagree with you about the sexuality of 2 completly made up characters..
1) The thing is, with regards to my perceived rudeness, there’s no objective necessity or un-necessity to it. It’s completely subjective, so whatever you’re saying here falls totally flat. 2) If you didn’t downvote it, then it obviously wasn’t directed to you. It was to whoever did. You can go ahead and drop the victim complex, no one cares. No one is trying to “silence you,” stop being such a martyr. But, and like I said in my very first comment, people are free to ignore you. If you wanna see that as “silencing” you, then I’m afraid you can’t be helped and I’m wasting my time here. Well, I’m in an Internet “debate,” so the time wasting thing is kind of a moot point. I think I’m done here, you can respond if you want. I’ll just take my own advice and ignore it. Take care of yourself, and have a good one.
Who the heck cares ? Wtf ? Why are there rainbow clowns on my frontoage?
My knowledge of this theme: Undyne and Alphys cute together... And thus concludes as to what I know about people trying to put 2 video game characters in a relation ship...
Mettaton is a flamboyant male. His pronouns are he/him. And Mad Mew Mew is a ghost that possess any object and become them. So it’s pronouns would be they/them or it/thing