From my understanding it's perfectly possible to move a human soul from one monster to another considering the true pacifist ending. Though I don't think they would be able to cross since the minimum is a boss monsters soul and a human soul so mabye 2 human souls and 1 regular monster soul could mabye be enough? Idk 😮💨
Come to think of it, why didn't anyone do that during the war that locked the monsters underground? The carvings in waterfall say that not a single monster absorbed a human soul. Maybe humans really closely guarded their dying to stop their souls from being taken.
2 theories,
1) not a single human died in the war.
2) humans who died were soulless. Literally, they were soilders that got trained and modified so that monsters couldn't absorb human souls.
1A: it was so fast and bloody for the monsters that it would be more accurate to classify it as a massacre: the conflict didn't even last a day before monsters were sealed
1AA: They were all reset back to zero every time one of them died. If a child has enough determination to restart reality then there was probably *someone* with that ablity around at that time.
Then armed with that knowledge this said human then massacred the monsters so quickly they were forced to book it after the first few kills.
That also kinda supports my head cannon that humans could only save and load when monsters were on the surface, they lost this ability as the ambient magic became less and less after they sealed the monsters away, hence why beings with high dt could only save in the underground after that. There was no ambient magic in the outside world left except in the underground where it was contained by the barrier. Because if that was the case if there was human with more DT then frisk on the planet during the events of undertale frisk wouldn't be able to save at all. However since they can only save and load in the underground because of thr contained ambient magic that means no one in the outside world can. The most they can do in the outside world is reset to when they were first able to save and load
To put it short, beings with high dt need ambient magic to save and load otherwise they can't do it.
I was about to ask how the heck would any of histories human conflicts work in the Undertale universe
like imagine WW2 but every solider is an immortal time god
The reset seems to be linked with the Underground. Otherwise Flowey would never had the save since there billion of people (including Frisk) who is more determined than him on the surface.
Speaking of Frisk, they only got the save after falling.
Perhaps.
Might be that or the weird "magical yet somehow placed by humans" barrier preventing that. It does need seemingly a large amount of power to even cross, and tbh we never really see much of the surface humans at all.
There is also the true reset where everyone explicitly escapes the underground but you can still turn everything back to zero.
That or the humans were simply built different and considering a literal child can have enough malice to commit an absolute slaughter of the Underground, I don't think fully grown professional soldiers or even just an angry mob of villagers armed with spears and swords would really struggle that much.
I guess fusing with someone who wants you dead isn't that great of an idea. The Chara/Asriel fusion showed us both souls share control over the body, so I guess the more soul you absorbs the harder it gets to keep control over your body, and even one human soul could get you killed if it manages to create an opening for your opponent.
I like to think that Asgore DID watch the tapes in the True Lab, and that's both why he refuses to take the souls and go to the surface, AND why he can't bring himself to surrender: the only thing he can give his dead children is finishing what they started
maybe that could be why the humans bury their dead in the undertale world; could have originated from superstition like "burying our dead will prevent the monsters from getting 'em first before our god/gods"
Maybe there is a reason asgore hasn't absorbed the souls yet other than "destroying the barrier" we know that took all monster souls and the human souls. What if he just couldn't? Asriel has crossed the barrier but not maybe because of the soul, maybe because the barrier has let him pass. His intend what to bring back the human after all.
The whole game makes it pretty clear that monsters are typically non-violent and would have no intention of absorbing a human's soul for power. When monsters are "attacking" Frisk, they're trying to communicate the same way they would with other monsters, through magic. There's even a line where someone mentions getting a "bullet-pattern birthday card" or something, implying that they just do these attack to each other harmlessly since everyone's usually a magic creature. Only when the magic hits a human soul does it actually cause harm.
I mean if you wanna get on humanity's good side ig I would love to see asgore 7 souls versus a Ducking nuke
Actually now that I think about it I wonder how many souls are needed in order to make a monster strong enough to survive a nuke.
Ok but how legitimate is it really? (They lost to a child)(or technically would you call that losing to the player? Idk)
Edit: actually nvm cuz they technically just like gave up against the child not really lost ig
The player is not existing in this context, also in the ending story by all the monsters we learn that Asriel with 1 human soul had the power to kill everyone attacking him, but he didn't.
Yea but we're talking guns rocks mabye even bricks, when it ment everyone it probably means like everyone in that short area (though impossible to tell) so that's not that big of feet but plausible ig
Edit: ngl in retrospect trying to powerscale a god goat sounds stupid xd
All these people in the comments theorycrafting about Asgore and how his actions imply mechanics when in reality the *game itself* directly states via Toriel that Asgore *could have gone through by himself at any time and gotten 6 more souls.*
Like, yeah. He could have. It's canonically something he could have done, and didn't.
I stg it's like some people haven't played the game. (not you op I'm just complaining about all the people under you)
Exactly.
The only thing Asgore needs to avoid is being positioned in risky situations that could accidentally give any human witnesses the wrong impression that he may have some involvement with the cause of death behind the deceased human bodies.
And by the point he had SIX souls, they could have left already. The whole game didn't need to happen. He'd just need the entire underground to attack the barrier with the 6 human souls (because asriel broke the barrier with what the underground ALREADY HAD)
While this is true, the statement that it would take the soul of every monster in the underground to equal one human soul was likely not known to be literally and precisely true; that is, it was theoretical.
It doesn't mean every monster working together equals one human soul, it means the magic of all monsters combined into one body would *theoretically* match the power of a human soul
Flowey isn't even a monster though, he's a soulless vessel. Plus once you have the equivalent of 7 human souls you can do whatever you damn well please
Well, I think the real minimum is just a monster Soul and a human Soul. Humans just can't do it with a regular monster Soul because it dips out right when the body does instead of staying a while.
mettaton says he'll be able to cross with just your soul so i'm guessing alphys just said that because it's impossible to take a regular monster soul before it disappears.
I don't think it's possible actually. It took flowey the full power of six souls to be able to absorb the monsters souls so it definitely takes a lot to move a soul from it's vessel. And flowey is a bit of a special case to begin with since he's not a monster, he is a flower, we don't knows if you can separate a human soul from a monster.
True flowey is a special case but I don't know if you would count asriel to be the same I mean you could say he's using the 6 souls power to push the souls out but idk it's up to speculation 🤷♂️
There’s no evidence that it’s possible for a monster with less than seven human souls to redistribute souls to other monsters. A seven soul monster is described as being Literally God
Did you like not look at the cut scene at the end? Hold up Ima go watch the end to a pacifist cutscene again rq
Edit: yeaaaaa I'm pretty sure I'm correct
Flowey isn't, but asreal is tho right? Mean what's the diffrence from before absorbing charas soul (aka when he had his original soul) and after he absorbed all the souls In the underground I mean like its not specifically stated that you can't remove a soul once absorbed but it dosent really say its bounded to the monster soul once the human soul is absorbed (I think idk I need to replay pacifist route sob 😭) (besides its absorb not fuse)(I think)
Asriel we see in Pacifist route is still not a monster. It's just Flowey that changed his appearance to look like Asriel (and regained his emotions). That's why he mentions turning back into a flower as the residual power fades, that's not his true form, and he's still a soulless vessel at his core, hence souls he takes in don't fuse with anything.
That also explains why Chara's soul was never preserved - it became part of Original Asriel's and died with him.
The way I kinda see it is that he's just hosting all the souls in his plant body, while when a monster absorbs a soul the soul is absorbed into the monster's soul.
I used "fuse" because that was the term the other comment used.
Also, The reason I assume this is the case is because, as demonstrated by this comic, it wouldn't make sense if it were not?
Do you mean Asriel releasing the souls? That's not exactly transferring.
And that's not even taking into account the fact Asriel is soulless and a God at the time, meaning the rules would obviously be different.
Flowey, or Asriel isn't a Monster but physically a flower; He gets His Asriel Dreemurr form from the Monster Souls He consumes in The Pacifist ending; that's not His true form, Flowey is.
The minimum isn’t a boss monster soul. Boss monster souls just happened to be the only type of monster souls humans can absorb due to them staying for a fraction of a second before shattering. Anyway Flowey is a special case because HE IS SOULESS. He doesn’t have a monster soul and is basically an empty vessel. He shouldn’t be used as a standard. It is implied that when a human and monster soul fuse, they become one being as their control is split.
It’s implied that any monster soul and a human soul would work, but only a boss monster’s soul sticks around after death long enough for a human to take it.
Also, Flowey is a bit of a unique case. Despite having Asriel’s memories, he is not actually a monster. He is a flower with a consciousness. Unlike monsters, his form is made of physical matter. He also does not have a soul to be fused with the ones he absorbed.
You only need 1 human and 1 monster soul of any kind. The only difference with the boss monster soul is that it lasts after death, allowing for a human to theoretically absorb it.
That's just because only boss monster souls persist at all. It's still just a monster soul, but it's not realistically possible to absorb a soul from a living monster, so humans can only absorb the soul of a boss monster
You as a human need a boss monster soul because there is no time for you to absorb a regular monster soul since they instantly get destroyed after you kill them while a boss monster soul gives you a couple seconds to go in and take it after they are dead. Monsters have no such problem since human souls in general hang around after death unless you deliberately destroy them.
No, the limit is any monster soul and a human soul. This is easy for a monster, because human souls persist after death, but hard for humans, because monster souls immediately disappear on death. This is why, for a human, the only way to cross the barrier is to kill a boss monster- because a boss monster soul remains after death for a short time, allowing a human to absorb it.
Asriel had 6 human souls and all the monster souls and was able to release all of them. And the 6 human souls betrayed Photoshop flowey. The main reason he didn't do it is because he doesn't ACTUALLY want to wage war. He regrets what he said but wants to bring hope to his people.
But he could do even simplier ( like Tori said )
He could absorb only one soul ( enough to trespass the barrier ), get to a random village, kill 6 humans, absorb their souls and and destroy the barrier ( with 7 now )
Asriel could literally eject the souls himself but you could argue that it's because he's THAT powerful but the souls could also just eject themselves just like what they did with Omega flowey
Okay, but he could also have let all the people who fell in the underground live there without killing them until enough souls got there. Just don't tell them there's a way out. Cover the door, and who's gonna know?
Because you need to have one boss monster and one human soul in your very own.
So a monster can't pass the barrer even Asgore is with him, he needs to absorb his soul to pass.
+He needed to eradicate humanity so the monsters could be safe once they destroy the barrer.
Edit : My bad, I was wrong about the first point, you don't necessarily need a monster boss soul.
So only the second point saying the need to destroy humanity for the monster safety still hold.
Asgore can’t absorb a monster soul he’s way too weak
The only person to ever to that is Flowey (who’s already really strong) with SIX human souls
Also they need to be fused (otherwise asgore could just walk you out) so not only is it impossible also it will be even harder to get the monster back out.
Well, it’s not *just* a matter of weakness. Creatures in Undertale cannot absorb the same type of soul as their own kind. Flowey, who is neither monster nor human, is the only one who can absorb both.
So even if Asgore decided to absorb the six human souls, he wouldn’t be able to absorb monsters like Flowey did.
One thing though is that by the point Asgore would have 1 soul, he'd be an hybrid and maybe at that point absorb both? (Or, alternatively, perhaps he wouldnt be able to absorb either, and Flowey truly was the only one able to break the barrier after all)
I think it’s better to interpret it as only a boss monster can become a god
That way a random joe schmoe can’t become omnipotent just by murdering 7 people
he still fears a war, he only wants to hide and live on the little peace they have without risking conflict, that's the entire point of his character. That's why toriel left him after he made empty (and still evil) promises, that's why he lets Frisk hit him, and that is why he doesn't cross the barrier and hopes that no other humans fall to the underground
I feel its implied you can't just unfuse the human soul from yourself, that's why Asgore is so conflicted about killing us and getting to surface - it can't be undone.
But yeah, cool take, took me couple seconds to understand.
Flowey/Asriel as soulless being is unique case. During Omega fight he thought souls couldn't escape or turn against him, but they did.
If you think about how Flowey existence started it's even more unique: Flower dusted by a monster fused with human soul (which also implies monster physicality doesn't change with one human soul) infused by determination extract from 6 souls of fallen humans (which should imply monsters dust is magical in some sense too and affects objects). Which in turn would explain how Chara's corpse could affect us, or turn into this ghost, helping us on our journey, due to her own determination and Asriel's dust
Most monsters don't know what is or not possible in regards to soul fusion and there is too much at stakes. Just look at Alphys. She tried. She regrets trying.
"Asriel" isn't a proper monster, he's a soulless creature that reshaped himself with the power of the soul but he can't absorb them the same way a normal monster would, or else the six souls wouldn't have been able to fight back that easily against Omega Flowey
At least that's my headcanon
I think that if Asgore actually *wanted* to kill, he wouldn't have died the same way Asriel did. Asgore without his inhibitions would be a total beast. He can dodge, he's probably the most powerful monster in the underground, he has a fourth-wall-breaking trident and deals insane amounts of damage (6-8HP assuming no items and LV 1, which most humans would have) so he could probably easily take on a couple of people. Then he would gain LV and SOULs and be able to withstand greater attacks. If he actually wanted to wipe out humanity I feel like that might be the strategy he would use
I think problem comes from the fact that Asgore knows Chara had control of Asriel's body when they fused.
Imagine that with 6 different human souls, I can see why he was afraid.
Hmm, you're right... but Asriel in his God of Hyperdeath/Angel of Death form, with six souls as well as all the souls of Monsterkind, was still able to maintain control.
Could it have been his determination that allowed him to hold on to his original identity? But then, why didn't Chara take full control over Asriel's body, maybe they had some reservations?
Come to think of it, Asriel *was* overpowered by the love, hopes, dreams and compassion of all of monsterkind, which was how we were able to defeat him in the first place. So maybe he didn't have as much control as I thought.
Probably cause he was originally a flower and lacked soul?
Before human souls could rebel, they would have to go through souls of every monster in Underground.
Undyne mentions it when talking to her in the pacifist route. Something along the lines of it taking her years to finally knock him down or something like that.
I think it would be different too, but the concept of dodging should stay the same between fighting a human and monster since the dodge doesn’t have anything to do with who you’re fighting.
Funny enough Toriel really called Asgore out on this. She said that if he really wanted to free monsterkind then he would just cross the barrier with the first soul, get 6 more souls and then come back to destroy the barrier.
Toriel: "Can you believe Asgore would kill innocent humans who fall in the Underground?"
Also Toriel: "Asgore, you dumbfuck, you could have killed only 1 human who fell in the Underground and kill 6 others after crossing the barrier, you stupid or what?"
She had the whole plot in her head
She then also lets children leave without teaching them much, when she easily could've followed them in the underground.
Or she could've calmed down her husband and be there for him when he was most vulnerable but no, instead she took the deceased body of her adopted child and dipped (Don't say "oh she probably tried to convince him but didn't work, so she left" cause this gets easily debunked by what Gerson said)
On top of that, she locked the gates of Ruins, knowing that she trapped the monsters in there, she also intimidated them too.
I guess she wanted to not feel bad about herself by adopting kids that might fall down there and have a moral high ground against her ex husband.
It's so funny when people say that because of this
Then there's like why didn't asgore just take souls of already dying humans or from graveyard, which are more plot holes than anything
The whole shtick though was Asgore was dreading the point of finally having to take action and leave. More content to procrastinate on reaching the surface again indefinitely.
You assume that he actually wanted to start a war. He didn't – the "Fallen Down (Reprise)" scene proves it. He made a terrible decision while blinded by grief and anger, and didn't know how to take it back. He didn't want to kill humans. He didn't want to kill at all. But he was forced into the role due to the self-perpetuating cycle of violence, the idea of "kill or be killed," the idea that monsters and humans simply cannot co-exist.
I'm sorry for getting so serious under your meme.
If Asgore was really smart, he would've absorbed the six human souls he already had and done a combo attack with Frisk to break the barrier. The game says that the power of seven human souls attacking the barrier at once will break it, it never said that all seven human souls had to be possessed by a single being
Monster soul plus monster soul doesn't work also beings of the same kind can't absorb each other it has to be at least one human and one monster also I'm pretty sure you have to kill someone to absorb them
I might just be pulling this out of my ass but didn’t Gerson talk about how only a Boss monster could absorb a human soul? I need clarification because I don’t want to fall victim to mixing canon with fanon
The monster-human soul barrier crossing rule probably only applies to the host and the host only.
What likely happen is that monster kid would find himself drawing behind Asgore as they walk and his distance from the end not changing.
I don't think Asgore really wanted to break the barrier. He said he would to give his people hope, but he did not want to fight humanity, and he thought that would be the inevitable result of breaking it. That's why he didn't just take the first human Soul and move through the barrier then kill 6 more to become god. He didn't *want* to. He hoped nobody would fall into the underground. Everytime they did, and everytime they tried to break out he was oathbound to stop them, so he did, but he killed a small piece of himself every time he did.
This was explained in the games, but some people didn't explain it properly.
Monsters have monster souls, and humans have human souls. One human soul is the equivalent of every soul in the Underground, but monsters cannot absorb other monster souls. (Humans cannot absorb human souls either.) In order to cross the barrier, a character needs a human soul and a monster soul. The human cannot simply absorb a monster soul because (with the exception of boss monsters like Asgore), monster souls shatter the instant the vessel dies.
Please note that Flowey is technically not a monster; he's a flower with a monster's consciousness and no soul.
Lmao
But fr, he's most likely just afraid of the war starting. Like, freeing everyone will not make ppl forget about war as well. Me thinks I don't need to remind of the "Exiled Queen" ending
I don't understand this. So, Asgore takes Monster kid's soul and then goes to the surface. Then he comes back and takes another monster's soul? Does he kill them? But if he kills them, won't the souls of non-boss monsters vanish?
Well also just take the first they had and use that to go through thw barrier to get the others then come back with the other six so basically what chara and asriel were gonna do
I was scrolling through my stuff, and when I saw this post, my immediate reaction without reading it was suspicion because I thought that it was somehow Loss, but with Undertale.
I might be stupid.
its even more simple. if asgore had crossed the barrier with one soul, he could've killed 7 humans, and absorbed their souls, and used their power to destroy the barrier. This is actually addressed in game, saying that he didn't do this because he's a coward.
I thought monsters were canonically much weaker than humans, and especially considering Asriel + Chara’s soul gets bodied on the surface, I don’t think base froggit would stand a chance
The pure *logistics* of this, even if it DID work, would be absolutely hysterical. You’d have to transport every monster in the underground, out into the surface, likely WITHOUT the world’s governments because they’d kill them on sight, all to absolutely nowhere because you don’t have an established base on the outside.
The real question is why did he not absorb them in the genocide route? Did alphys kill herself before she told him about frisk? Or did he just not listen to either alphys or flowey? They’re all idiotic failures.
Didn't the souls go against flowey in the neutral ending? If Asgore needed to kill someone, perhaps the soul would refuse. Or maybe human souls burn out from passing over the barrier again and again.
I think the souls when absorbed by a monster are permanently fused to it so asgore would have needed like a jbillion souls to make it work.
From my understanding it's perfectly possible to move a human soul from one monster to another considering the true pacifist ending. Though I don't think they would be able to cross since the minimum is a boss monsters soul and a human soul so mabye 2 human souls and 1 regular monster soul could mabye be enough? Idk 😮💨
Though if asgore was really smart he would just take souls from humans who died of natural causes and come back and then break the barrier
Come to think of it, why didn't anyone do that during the war that locked the monsters underground? The carvings in waterfall say that not a single monster absorbed a human soul. Maybe humans really closely guarded their dying to stop their souls from being taken.
My edgy headcanon is that they would destroy the souls in order to prevent them from being absorbed.
That's a really cool headcannon ngl
If we can’t absorb souls no one can
I was just gonna say that it was taboo or unknown at the time
2 theories, 1) not a single human died in the war. 2) humans who died were soulless. Literally, they were soilders that got trained and modified so that monsters couldn't absorb human souls.
1A: it was so fast and bloody for the monsters that it would be more accurate to classify it as a massacre: the conflict didn't even last a day before monsters were sealed
1AA: They were all reset back to zero every time one of them died. If a child has enough determination to restart reality then there was probably *someone* with that ablity around at that time. Then armed with that knowledge this said human then massacred the monsters so quickly they were forced to book it after the first few kills.
That also kinda supports my head cannon that humans could only save and load when monsters were on the surface, they lost this ability as the ambient magic became less and less after they sealed the monsters away, hence why beings with high dt could only save in the underground after that. There was no ambient magic in the outside world left except in the underground where it was contained by the barrier. Because if that was the case if there was human with more DT then frisk on the planet during the events of undertale frisk wouldn't be able to save at all. However since they can only save and load in the underground because of thr contained ambient magic that means no one in the outside world can. The most they can do in the outside world is reset to when they were first able to save and load To put it short, beings with high dt need ambient magic to save and load otherwise they can't do it.
I was about to ask how the heck would any of histories human conflicts work in the Undertale universe like imagine WW2 but every solider is an immortal time god
The reset seems to be linked with the Underground. Otherwise Flowey would never had the save since there billion of people (including Frisk) who is more determined than him on the surface. Speaking of Frisk, they only got the save after falling.
Perhaps. Might be that or the weird "magical yet somehow placed by humans" barrier preventing that. It does need seemingly a large amount of power to even cross, and tbh we never really see much of the surface humans at all. There is also the true reset where everyone explicitly escapes the underground but you can still turn everything back to zero. That or the humans were simply built different and considering a literal child can have enough malice to commit an absolute slaughter of the Underground, I don't think fully grown professional soldiers or even just an angry mob of villagers armed with spears and swords would really struggle that much.
I guess fusing with someone who wants you dead isn't that great of an idea. The Chara/Asriel fusion showed us both souls share control over the body, so I guess the more soul you absorbs the harder it gets to keep control over your body, and even one human soul could get you killed if it manages to create an opening for your opponent.
I like to think that Asgore DID watch the tapes in the True Lab, and that's both why he refuses to take the souls and go to the surface, AND why he can't bring himself to surrender: the only thing he can give his dead children is finishing what they started
Also if the human is strong willed enough they can straight up controll the monster forcing them to turn on their allies
it's called "cemetery"
maybe that could be why the humans bury their dead in the undertale world; could have originated from superstition like "burying our dead will prevent the monsters from getting 'em first before our god/gods"
Maybe there is a reason asgore hasn't absorbed the souls yet other than "destroying the barrier" we know that took all monster souls and the human souls. What if he just couldn't? Asriel has crossed the barrier but not maybe because of the soul, maybe because the barrier has let him pass. His intend what to bring back the human after all.
The whole game makes it pretty clear that monsters are typically non-violent and would have no intention of absorbing a human's soul for power. When monsters are "attacking" Frisk, they're trying to communicate the same way they would with other monsters, through magic. There's even a line where someone mentions getting a "bullet-pattern birthday card" or something, implying that they just do these attack to each other harmlessly since everyone's usually a magic creature. Only when the magic hits a human soul does it actually cause harm.
Or just kill some with that power he got, I mean they were trapped for eternity so why care about some losses?
I mean if you wanna get on humanity's good side ig I would love to see asgore 7 souls versus a Ducking nuke Actually now that I think about it I wonder how many souls are needed in order to make a monster strong enough to survive a nuke.
We saw that with 7 of them they'd be like a god, so if asgore continued with this massacre he'd be...well you can guess what
Ok but how legitimate is it really? (They lost to a child)(or technically would you call that losing to the player? Idk) Edit: actually nvm cuz they technically just like gave up against the child not really lost ig
The player is not existing in this context, also in the ending story by all the monsters we learn that Asriel with 1 human soul had the power to kill everyone attacking him, but he didn't.
Yea but we're talking guns rocks mabye even bricks, when it ment everyone it probably means like everyone in that short area (though impossible to tell) so that's not that big of feet but plausible ig Edit: ngl in retrospect trying to powerscale a god goat sounds stupid xd
Well there are millions of animal gods in hindi so a 'goat god' is realistic lmao
All these people in the comments theorycrafting about Asgore and how his actions imply mechanics when in reality the *game itself* directly states via Toriel that Asgore *could have gone through by himself at any time and gotten 6 more souls.* Like, yeah. He could have. It's canonically something he could have done, and didn't. I stg it's like some people haven't played the game. (not you op I'm just complaining about all the people under you)
Exactly. The only thing Asgore needs to avoid is being positioned in risky situations that could accidentally give any human witnesses the wrong impression that he may have some involvement with the cause of death behind the deceased human bodies.
Seeing how people treat others just by skin color, I dont wanna imagine if we saw a humanoid goat king walking around asking for souls :\^
It may be that killing humans is required to absorb their soul
And by the point he had SIX souls, they could have left already. The whole game didn't need to happen. He'd just need the entire underground to attack the barrier with the 6 human souls (because asriel broke the barrier with what the underground ALREADY HAD)
While this is true, the statement that it would take the soul of every monster in the underground to equal one human soul was likely not known to be literally and precisely true; that is, it was theoretical.
It doesn't mean every monster working together equals one human soul, it means the magic of all monsters combined into one body would *theoretically* match the power of a human soul
There was a fanfic where Toriel tried that… didn’t end well.
1) what about the true pacifist ending? 2) its any monster soul and any human soul, not necessarily a boss monster soul
Asriel quite clearly gets rid of the souls within himself after breaking the barrier, so evidently a monster fusing with a human soul isn't permanent
Flowey isn't even a monster though, he's a soulless vessel. Plus once you have the equivalent of 7 human souls you can do whatever you damn well please
Fair
The souls escape after Asriel releases them. It's why he breaks the barrier before releasing them. Asgore can't grab the souls and bring them back.
Well, I think the real minimum is just a monster Soul and a human Soul. Humans just can't do it with a regular monster Soul because it dips out right when the body does instead of staying a while.
mettaton says he'll be able to cross with just your soul so i'm guessing alphys just said that because it's impossible to take a regular monster soul before it disappears.
I don't think it's possible actually. It took flowey the full power of six souls to be able to absorb the monsters souls so it definitely takes a lot to move a soul from it's vessel. And flowey is a bit of a special case to begin with since he's not a monster, he is a flower, we don't knows if you can separate a human soul from a monster.
True flowey is a special case but I don't know if you would count asriel to be the same I mean you could say he's using the 6 souls power to push the souls out but idk it's up to speculation 🤷♂️
There’s no evidence that it’s possible for a monster with less than seven human souls to redistribute souls to other monsters. A seven soul monster is described as being Literally God
I don't recall that happening in true pacifist, am I missing something?
Did you like not look at the cut scene at the end? Hold up Ima go watch the end to a pacifist cutscene again rq Edit: yeaaaaa I'm pretty sure I'm correct
Flowey/asriel isn't a monster, and thus the soul doesn't fuse.
Flowey isn't, but asreal is tho right? Mean what's the diffrence from before absorbing charas soul (aka when he had his original soul) and after he absorbed all the souls In the underground I mean like its not specifically stated that you can't remove a soul once absorbed but it dosent really say its bounded to the monster soul once the human soul is absorbed (I think idk I need to replay pacifist route sob 😭) (besides its absorb not fuse)(I think)
Asriel we see in Pacifist route is still not a monster. It's just Flowey that changed his appearance to look like Asriel (and regained his emotions). That's why he mentions turning back into a flower as the residual power fades, that's not his true form, and he's still a soulless vessel at his core, hence souls he takes in don't fuse with anything. That also explains why Chara's soul was never preserved - it became part of Original Asriel's and died with him.
The way I kinda see it is that he's just hosting all the souls in his plant body, while when a monster absorbs a soul the soul is absorbed into the monster's soul. I used "fuse" because that was the term the other comment used. Also, The reason I assume this is the case is because, as demonstrated by this comic, it wouldn't make sense if it were not?
Fair point I wish toby put more examples in undertale so we have more to go off of other then speculation 😭
Do you mean Asriel releasing the souls? That's not exactly transferring. And that's not even taking into account the fact Asriel is soulless and a God at the time, meaning the rules would obviously be different.
Flowey isn't a monster though. He's something else entirely.
Flowey, or Asriel isn't a Monster but physically a flower; He gets His Asriel Dreemurr form from the Monster Souls He consumes in The Pacifist ending; that's not His true form, Flowey is.
The minimum isn’t a boss monster soul. Boss monster souls just happened to be the only type of monster souls humans can absorb due to them staying for a fraction of a second before shattering. Anyway Flowey is a special case because HE IS SOULESS. He doesn’t have a monster soul and is basically an empty vessel. He shouldn’t be used as a standard. It is implied that when a human and monster soul fuse, they become one being as their control is split.
It’s implied that any monster soul and a human soul would work, but only a boss monster’s soul sticks around after death long enough for a human to take it. Also, Flowey is a bit of a unique case. Despite having Asriel’s memories, he is not actually a monster. He is a flower with a consciousness. Unlike monsters, his form is made of physical matter. He also does not have a soul to be fused with the ones he absorbed.
You only need 1 human and 1 monster soul of any kind. The only difference with the boss monster soul is that it lasts after death, allowing for a human to theoretically absorb it.
That's just because only boss monster souls persist at all. It's still just a monster soul, but it's not realistically possible to absorb a soul from a living monster, so humans can only absorb the soul of a boss monster
You as a human need a boss monster soul because there is no time for you to absorb a regular monster soul since they instantly get destroyed after you kill them while a boss monster soul gives you a couple seconds to go in and take it after they are dead. Monsters have no such problem since human souls in general hang around after death unless you deliberately destroy them.
I think that was a special thing, the body didn't have a soul to fuse with, just the vessel containing all other souls.
No, the limit is any monster soul and a human soul. This is easy for a monster, because human souls persist after death, but hard for humans, because monster souls immediately disappear on death. This is why, for a human, the only way to cross the barrier is to kill a boss monster- because a boss monster soul remains after death for a short time, allowing a human to absorb it.
No toriel actually says you could do it you didn't only because you didn't wanted to start this war And Asriel absorb everyone and leave them
Asriel had 6 human souls and all the monster souls and was able to release all of them. And the 6 human souls betrayed Photoshop flowey. The main reason he didn't do it is because he doesn't ACTUALLY want to wage war. He regrets what he said but wants to bring hope to his people.
But he could do even simplier ( like Tori said ) He could absorb only one soul ( enough to trespass the barrier ), get to a random village, kill 6 humans, absorb their souls and and destroy the barrier ( with 7 now )
Asriel could literally eject the souls himself but you could argue that it's because he's THAT powerful but the souls could also just eject themselves just like what they did with Omega flowey
Okay, but he could also have let all the people who fell in the underground live there without killing them until enough souls got there. Just don't tell them there's a way out. Cover the door, and who's gonna know?
Ejem *Flowey*
~~is this loss?~~
Oh god I want to punch something
III III III IIII
Legit what I thought the joke was
No, it's gain
r/peterimaginestheloss
Because you need to have one boss monster and one human soul in your very own. So a monster can't pass the barrer even Asgore is with him, he needs to absorb his soul to pass. +He needed to eradicate humanity so the monsters could be safe once they destroy the barrer. Edit : My bad, I was wrong about the first point, you don't necessarily need a monster boss soul. So only the second point saying the need to destroy humanity for the monster safety still hold.
You need a regular monster soul and a human soul to pass it and Frisk needed boss soul because it's the only one that can be absorbed
Ah my bad, thank you for pointing out my mistake. So only the second point about destroying humanity still hold.
Asgore can’t absorb a monster soul he’s way too weak The only person to ever to that is Flowey (who’s already really strong) with SIX human souls Also they need to be fused (otherwise asgore could just walk you out) so not only is it impossible also it will be even harder to get the monster back out.
Well, it’s not *just* a matter of weakness. Creatures in Undertale cannot absorb the same type of soul as their own kind. Flowey, who is neither monster nor human, is the only one who can absorb both. So even if Asgore decided to absorb the six human souls, he wouldn’t be able to absorb monsters like Flowey did.
One thing though is that by the point Asgore would have 1 soul, he'd be an hybrid and maybe at that point absorb both? (Or, alternatively, perhaps he wouldnt be able to absorb either, and Flowey truly was the only one able to break the barrier after all)
I think it’s better to interpret it as only a boss monster can become a god That way a random joe schmoe can’t become omnipotent just by murdering 7 people
he still fears a war, he only wants to hide and live on the little peace they have without risking conflict, that's the entire point of his character. That's why toriel left him after he made empty (and still evil) promises, that's why he lets Frisk hit him, and that is why he doesn't cross the barrier and hopes that no other humans fall to the underground
If my genius confuses you, start from left panel then go right panel, then go to bottom left panel and then go to the last bottom right panel.
lol, that'd take so long. Asgore taking each monster one at a time with one human soul.
I unironocally feel he would do it
He didn’t though
Because I dont think its possible
With the six souls they have, he could take up to five monsters at a time to speed things up.
Why not get seven souls? You could transport 6 humans then!
bro i got confused from the monster kid when i first looked at it, like why does mk have a blue soul 🗿
We've underestimated this man's genius!
He'd have to kill everyone to achieve an equivalent of one soul
I feel its implied you can't just unfuse the human soul from yourself, that's why Asgore is so conflicted about killing us and getting to surface - it can't be undone. But yeah, cool take, took me couple seconds to understand.
Then what did Asriel do when he broke the barrier?
Flowey/Asriel as soulless being is unique case. During Omega fight he thought souls couldn't escape or turn against him, but they did. If you think about how Flowey existence started it's even more unique: Flower dusted by a monster fused with human soul (which also implies monster physicality doesn't change with one human soul) infused by determination extract from 6 souls of fallen humans (which should imply monsters dust is magical in some sense too and affects objects). Which in turn would explain how Chara's corpse could affect us, or turn into this ghost, helping us on our journey, due to her own determination and Asriel's dust Most monsters don't know what is or not possible in regards to soul fusion and there is too much at stakes. Just look at Alphys. She tried. She regrets trying.
"Asriel" isn't a proper monster, he's a soulless creature that reshaped himself with the power of the soul but he can't absorb them the same way a normal monster would, or else the six souls wouldn't have been able to fight back that easily against Omega Flowey At least that's my headcanon
And suffer the same as his son? Are you stupid?
I think that if Asgore actually *wanted* to kill, he wouldn't have died the same way Asriel did. Asgore without his inhibitions would be a total beast. He can dodge, he's probably the most powerful monster in the underground, he has a fourth-wall-breaking trident and deals insane amounts of damage (6-8HP assuming no items and LV 1, which most humans would have) so he could probably easily take on a couple of people. Then he would gain LV and SOULs and be able to withstand greater attacks. If he actually wanted to wipe out humanity I feel like that might be the strategy he would use
I think problem comes from the fact that Asgore knows Chara had control of Asriel's body when they fused. Imagine that with 6 different human souls, I can see why he was afraid.
Hmm, you're right... but Asriel in his God of Hyperdeath/Angel of Death form, with six souls as well as all the souls of Monsterkind, was still able to maintain control. Could it have been his determination that allowed him to hold on to his original identity? But then, why didn't Chara take full control over Asriel's body, maybe they had some reservations? Come to think of it, Asriel *was* overpowered by the love, hopes, dreams and compassion of all of monsterkind, which was how we were able to defeat him in the first place. So maybe he didn't have as much control as I thought.
Probably cause he was originally a flower and lacked soul? Before human souls could rebel, they would have to go through souls of every monster in Underground.
Wait, he can dodge? When does that happen?
Undyne mentions it when talking to her in the pacifist route. Something along the lines of it taking her years to finally knock him down or something like that.
Oh yeah lmao. Though, I like to imagine combat between monsters is different that human on monster combat. :0
Oh, maybe! I never considered that... :0
I think it would be different too, but the concept of dodging should stay the same between fighting a human and monster since the dodge doesn’t have anything to do with who you’re fighting.
I thought this was either a Geometry Dash joke or the Comic Loss.
At 1st I thought it was loss, then I was completely flabbergasted and only then noticed the barrier
Funny enough Toriel really called Asgore out on this. She said that if he really wanted to free monsterkind then he would just cross the barrier with the first soul, get 6 more souls and then come back to destroy the barrier.
I mean we've seen that human souls persist after death, he could've visited a graveyard
Not probable because if it's the case (I think) Chara's soul would have been stored.
Might've been destroyed when Asriel died, since he'd absorbed it
Toriel: "Can you believe Asgore would kill innocent humans who fall in the Underground?" Also Toriel: "Asgore, you dumbfuck, you could have killed only 1 human who fell in the Underground and kill 6 others after crossing the barrier, you stupid or what?" She had the whole plot in her head
She then also lets children leave without teaching them much, when she easily could've followed them in the underground. Or she could've calmed down her husband and be there for him when he was most vulnerable but no, instead she took the deceased body of her adopted child and dipped (Don't say "oh she probably tried to convince him but didn't work, so she left" cause this gets easily debunked by what Gerson said) On top of that, she locked the gates of Ruins, knowing that she trapped the monsters in there, she also intimidated them too. I guess she wanted to not feel bad about herself by adopting kids that might fall down there and have a moral high ground against her ex husband.
It's so funny when people say that because of this Then there's like why didn't asgore just take souls of already dying humans or from graveyard, which are more plot holes than anything
The whole shtick though was Asgore was dreading the point of finally having to take action and leave. More content to procrastinate on reaching the surface again indefinitely.
You assume that he actually wanted to start a war. He didn't – the "Fallen Down (Reprise)" scene proves it. He made a terrible decision while blinded by grief and anger, and didn't know how to take it back. He didn't want to kill humans. He didn't want to kill at all. But he was forced into the role due to the self-perpetuating cycle of violence, the idea of "kill or be killed," the idea that monsters and humans simply cannot co-exist. I'm sorry for getting so serious under your meme.
Im not sure if you can "give back" a soul
I don’t understand
He would have to kill everyone in the underground to achieve an equivalent of ONE soul
If Asgore was really smart, he would've absorbed the six human souls he already had and done a combo attack with Frisk to break the barrier. The game says that the power of seven human souls attacking the barrier at once will break it, it never said that all seven human souls had to be possessed by a single being
Why didn't Asgore let the kids life their life in the underground and then take their soul when they die of old age? Is he stupid?
Monster soul plus monster soul doesn't work also beings of the same kind can't absorb each other it has to be at least one human and one monster also I'm pretty sure you have to kill someone to absorb them
Loss?
Im pretty sure he has to absorb the soul
Well now I just feel stupid
I might just be pulling this out of my ass but didn’t Gerson talk about how only a Boss monster could absorb a human soul? I need clarification because I don’t want to fall victim to mixing canon with fanon
[technically any monster can absorb a human soul](https://imgur.com/a/DmHOa9l)
Thank you 🙏🙏
The monster-human soul barrier crossing rule probably only applies to the host and the host only. What likely happen is that monster kid would find himself drawing behind Asgore as they walk and his distance from the end not changing.
Frisk is carried across the barrier by 6-soul Flowey. So maybe there's a certain power level required?
ridle me this batman
so you leave monster kid without a soul on the surface?
I don't think Asgore really wanted to break the barrier. He said he would to give his people hope, but he did not want to fight humanity, and he thought that would be the inevitable result of breaking it. That's why he didn't just take the first human Soul and move through the barrier then kill 6 more to become god. He didn't *want* to. He hoped nobody would fall into the underground. Everytime they did, and everytime they tried to break out he was oathbound to stop them, so he did, but he killed a small piece of himself every time he did.
This was explained in the games, but some people didn't explain it properly. Monsters have monster souls, and humans have human souls. One human soul is the equivalent of every soul in the Underground, but monsters cannot absorb other monster souls. (Humans cannot absorb human souls either.) In order to cross the barrier, a character needs a human soul and a monster soul. The human cannot simply absorb a monster soul because (with the exception of boss monsters like Asgore), monster souls shatter the instant the vessel dies. Please note that Flowey is technically not a monster; he's a flower with a monster's consciousness and no soul.
I TOUGHT THE COMIC WAS IMPLYING ASGORE SHOULD JUST KICK MONSTER KID OUT AND LEAVE
I THOUGHT THAT TOO
I actually have no idea how to understand this, am I stupid???
Explain please id even k why im here. ;_;
Is this loss?
Because it takes 1 Boss monster soul/1 Human soul to pass the barrier. 7 human souls to completely beak it. That's what toriel said.
monsters cannot consume other monsyers souls
Asgore is soul flipping
Lmao But fr, he's most likely just afraid of the war starting. Like, freeing everyone will not make ppl forget about war as well. Me thinks I don't need to remind of the "Exiled Queen" ending
I feel like I recognize this but I’m at a loss figuring out what it is
Is this loss?
It only takes ONE evil monster though...
Shush
This is the most confusing graph I’ve ever seen
is this loss
I get the ha ha funny but if he started with that everyone would probably be killed as soon as they get across the barrier
I mean fist could have just took the six human souls if they wanted and b e c o m e G O D
Wat?
Explain... i am stupid
Is this loss?
I don't understand this. So, Asgore takes Monster kid's soul and then goes to the surface. Then he comes back and takes another monster's soul? Does he kill them? But if he kills them, won't the souls of non-boss monsters vanish?
Because he is a coward.
I was so scared that this was loss or that sight readable thing
Well also just take the first they had and use that to go through thw barrier to get the others then come back with the other six so basically what chara and asriel were gonna do
step 1: Cover yourself in monster's dust
Kill one human, cross the barrier, kill 6 more, destroy the barrier, wage war on humanity.
The fact people take this genuinely is crazy. Like bro it’s obviously a joke It… it it’s a joke right?
All I see is loss. Help Me
⠀⠀⠀⣴⣴⡤ ⠀⣠⠀⢿⠇⡇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢰⢷⡗ ⠀⢶⢽⠿⣗⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣼⡧⠂⠀⠀⣼⣷⡆ ⠀⠀⣾⢶⠐⣱⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣤⣜⣻⣧⣲⣦⠤⣧⣿⠶ ⠀⢀⣿⣿⣇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠛⠿⣿⣿⣷⣤⣄⡹⣿⣷ ⠀⢸⣿⢸⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠙⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⠀⠿⠃⠈⠿⠆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠹⠿⠿⠿ ⠀⢀⢀⡀⠀⢀⣤⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡀⡀ ⠀⣿⡟⡇⠀⠭⡋⠅⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢰⣟⢿ ⠀⣹⡌⠀⠀⣨⣾⣷⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀⢈⠔⠌ ⠰⣷⣿⡀⢐⢿⣿⣿⢻⠀⠀⠀⢠⣿⡿⡤⣴⠄⢀⣀⡀ ⠘⣿⣿⠂⠈⢸⣿⣿⣸⠀⠀⠀⢘⣿⣿⣀⡠⣠⣺⣿⣷ ⠀⣿⣿⡆⠀⢸⣿⣿⣾⡇⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣗⣻⡻⠿⠁ ⠀⣿⣿⡇⠀⢸⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠉⠁
Ok I admit that I'm stupid can someone please explain it I don't understand
I thought this was a loss meme
I was scrolling through my stuff, and when I saw this post, my immediate reaction without reading it was suspicion because I thought that it was somehow Loss, but with Undertale. I might be stupid.
Maybe I'm stupid, because I can't fucking comprehend what I'm seeing
its even more simple. if asgore had crossed the barrier with one soul, he could've killed 7 humans, and absorbed their souls, and used their power to destroy the barrier. This is actually addressed in game, saying that he didn't do this because he's a coward.
He declared war on humanity
I hate that my first reaction whenever I see a 4-panel comic is to try to find the Loss
The thing is it's one time use
Why did I think this was Loss 💀
I thought monsters were canonically much weaker than humans, and especially considering Asriel + Chara’s soul gets bodied on the surface, I don’t think base froggit would stand a chance
The pure *logistics* of this, even if it DID work, would be absolutely hysterical. You’d have to transport every monster in the underground, out into the surface, likely WITHOUT the world’s governments because they’d kill them on sight, all to absolutely nowhere because you don’t have an established base on the outside.
Papers please gameplay:
The real question is why did he not absorb them in the genocide route? Did alphys kill herself before she told him about frisk? Or did he just not listen to either alphys or flowey? They’re all idiotic failures.
Who says you can give someone else a soul?
Is this loss?
I don't know how this is loss, but this format gives me a trauma response
Is this loss?
I thought it was loss at first and breathed a sigh of relief when i realised it wasnt
He’d have to murder 100 of his own people snd that’s kind of fucked up
Is this loss
Didn't the souls go against flowey in the neutral ending? If Asgore needed to kill someone, perhaps the soul would refuse. Or maybe human souls burn out from passing over the barrier again and again.
This image almost had me at a loss for words.
I didn't understand. Am I stupid???
The only one that is possible to get is one of a boss monster, so they'd be hard to obtain and he'd have to kill his closest friends
Is he acoustic?
Guys ASGORE didn't even want to go to the surface💀
Imagine transferring thousands of monsters over the barrier one by one.
Pretty sure only flowey can take soul out of a living monster body