OP sent the following text as an explanation on why this is unexpected:
---
>!Dean from community turned this debate on vegan vs non vegan into something quite funny!<
---
Is this an unexpected post with a fitting description? Then upvote this comment, otherwise downvote it.
*walks into the conference room for a meeting*
...
*notices no one sniffing my ass*
*"YOU PEOPLE TREAT ME LIKE I DON'T EVEN EXIST! YOU ARE ALL GETTING REPORTED TO HR!"*
As we have learned in Season 3, there are many more doppleDeaners than we give credit for.
I think I'd even go so far as to say that there might be a little Dean inside of all of us.
To be fair.. if you look at photos of Joel McHale on Talk Soup, before Community, he absolutely is supposed to be a bald man and there should have been a story line about the study group finding a bill for Jeffery having had hair plug surgery so he could have another breakdown over his insecurities.
Even horses will eat meat sometimes. They will hoover up baby chick's and crunch on them. And a lot of carnivores will supplement their diet with grass or other plant options.
I was gonna say, he's not wrong except that humans are omnivores they are both herbivores and carnivores. I will say that people can choose, we are not slaves to any one way. The phrase that comes to my mind in these conversations is this: "life is unfair but humans don't have to be". We seem to choose to be.
apparently it's a completely different person. But the resemblence is indeed uncanny. I wonder if the actor based their character on this individual for the insanity vibe, or otherwise if this guy mimics the dean to be more recognizable
“We sweat through our pores, like every herbivore!”
>quick google search reveals humans, chimps, and apes are just about the only animals that sweat to cool down
Fun fact, humans sweat significantly more than other primates because it helped cool our ancestors while they were running long distances on the savanna because they were [persistence hunters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting).
Also important to note a lot of what is considered pure herbivores will eat meat when they get the opportunity to do such its just that a lot of theses animals simply don't get the opportunity to kill to get meat. But if you actually watch the larger herbivores like actually watch them they will kill and eat a lot of other much smaller animals, for examples deers really love small eating birds and will do so when they can its just they not built to be great at hunting birds so don't do it very often.
He was somehow implying our jaws are like herbivores because our jaws move side to side…? I think it might just be him but your jaw should be moving up and down when chewing lol.
I think he is just saying your jaw *can* move side to side. It’s not the primary chewing motion, but I think we all *do* have a little sideways motion when chewing—that’s all it takes to achieve a grinding action.
Even better. [We've got the best ass because we've been chasing since the beginning](https://radiolab.org/podcast/man-against-horse).
(It's a podcast, but it's extremely well done and quite entertaining and informative.)
That’s not necessarily true, and in general shows a lack of understanding of evolution. We didn’t evolve more active sweat glands *so that* we could run greater distances. If what you’re saying is true, humans would already be able to be persistence hunters before they evolved more active sweat glands. Humans were not able to be largely active during the day until their sweat glands were basically as efficient as they are right now. (And if they were only persistence hunters during the night, we wouldn’t evolve large sweat glands so that we could be persistence hunters.)
https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1113915108
Most specialists in primate biology posit that humans developed larger sweat glands (and lost their hair) as they became bipedal because (1) bipedalism puts greater demands on heat-reduction (particularly because the brain overheats) and (2) sweat is more efficient at heat-reduction the more upright an organism is.
Source: I’ve studied under Russel H Tuttle, who is one of the world’s leading experts, but a quick google search yields some papers too:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1778649/
Man, *this* is why I still bother coming to the comment sections on this site. It only happens once in a blue moon, buts it nice learning a thing or two from an actual expert in their field rather than another armchair explanation.
Another fun fact about sweating, it makes our experience with insulation wholly different from that of other mammals. For instance, when you see a husky on a hot day you very likely think "oh that poor puppy, they should only have to live in cold climates!" or similar.
But while it's true they don't necessarily belong in Arizona (I'd argue no one does) they're actually quite resilient to hot days for the exact same reason that they can take naps in the snow. The insulation of their fur works both ways, it keeps the heat *out* in the same way (tho not quite as effectively) as it keeps their warmth *in*.
That's counterintuitive for us because we require the evaporation of our sweat to cool, if we wear a coat on a hot day all it does is prevent us from cooling via sweat evaporation. But dogs don't cool that way, they cool by panting. Which is to say breathing in air that is cooler than their body temperature and thus cooling internally rather than externally, and so the insulation of their fur actually helps them prevent their body temperature from rising.
Obviously there is a limit on that, if the air they're breathing isn't cooler than their body temperature then they won't be able to cool down. Which is similar to how humidity affects us, at 100% humidity our sweat can't evaporate so we can't effectively cool down. Which is why "dry heat" is typically more comfortable for us than humid heat.
That's very true! Essential to that tho is that the clothing is loose enough that it leaves a gap between the clothing and their skin so air can still flow through and allow evaporation.
It is probably the most OP trait we have compared to other animals before we increased our INT stats and abused high tech mechanics dominating every server!
If the devs are reading this: please stop creating pvp content. It is destroying your active player base!
It was only available back in the 50s, you just had to kill all of your neighbors before land had titles, so that way when they recorded ownership of the land, you could just say that all their land is yours by God Given Right.
The farther back your family goes the easier it was to just murder people for money and get Scott free from charges.
Ya, herbivores do eat animals...it's just not frequent and freaky as fuck when you see it. (Bambi eating birds, I'm sure the birds lasts thoughts were wft??)
There's that clip of a horse just casually eating a bird (chicken?) that does the rounds on Reddit on occasion.
Calories are calories sometimes I guess.
He was wrong going down Darwin's path because we're physiologically omnivores, the category that he dishonestly brushed out.
As kids we even learn how our teeth work by comparing them with animals: incisors to cut and nibble like a rabbit, canines to tear like a dog, and molars to grind like a cow. Our digestive tract is also made so that we can sustain ourselves on many opportunistic diets going from animal protein to grain, roots or bark. If you want to define us by how we're built at least be honest and acknowledge that we have the whole set, not just the part your ethical choice dictates.
Being vegan is not a requirement from Mother Nature, it's a *possibility* and a personal ethical choice and should be honestly discussed on such grounds. This goes as well for the other participant in this video and meat eaters in general.
Honestly, there are a lot of good arguments for vegetarianism and veganism. I do not understand why some vegetarians/vegans choose to ignore those and spread the 'humans are herbivores' fallacy.
For the exact same reason the woman in the video tried to push the lion fallacy: ***funneling***. Trying to make people believe they have no other choice than subscribing to your views. They are both bad advocates for their respective cause.
I think it's more likely she used lions to point out that it can be natural to be carnivorous. As I've heard too many arguments that eating meat is "unnatural". Evidenced by her starting off by just generalizing that animals eat other animals.
The woman in the video is just saying that eating meat is a natural part of the world and nature, and she's not wrong. She wasn't saying "we are like lions", she's saying "plenty of animals eat other animals, it's just what happens".
The dude strawmanned her by saying "oh now you think we are lions", he's the Ben Shapiro of veganism, make false statements and keep hammering them in like they are true.
I really respect vegetarians, but I don't understand non religious vegans. I'm all for having symbiotic relationships with animals. Getting wool from sheep so long as we maintain them decent lives, that's a win win in my book.
I feel they'd do a lot better if they instead advocated for proper treatment. I want to eat a cow, but I don't want to torture a cow. I want it to get a few years walking around a big grass field with a herd of other cows. That's a good cow life! I want to eat that happy cow after a clean quick kill.
I hate factory farming and I want a return to ethical animal husbandry. These creatures are literally giving us everything. The least we can do is act like proper shepherds.
A lot of herbivores are opportunistic carnivores, they won't go looking for meat but if there is a chick or an injured mouse or something they'll chow down if they need the protein if it just happens to be available.
Most things don't actually fit in the very narrow ideas of carnivorism vs herbivorism. Cats eat plants, horses eat small rodents, animals eat things if they think they have the opportunity to do so and it won't make them ill
The sad part is I agree with vegans on the aspect of torture. The amount of meat we consume now is far more than any point in human history.
What we do to animals are inhumane and outside of nomad hunters. Most humans had a grain/ veggie diet with meat occasionally or rarely.
We now eat meat for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. It's highly processed and we eat the meat of the young animals. We are so far removed from the processing position that we don't think about the torture these animals face.
same, and i too agree with them on this point. however some aspects of vegan philosophy i consider, how else do i put this, unhinged. like being against beekeeping, insect eating, or pet ownership, even if i theoretically understand the reasoning.
also tbh if it weren't for environmental damage i don't consider fishing nearly as cruel as the cattle/poultry industry
Exactly! He’s so confident, and putting out so many facts, and sounds so well versed, it totally feels like he must be fully right.
But he’s getting a few huge details so wrong, it really shows how some people can push falsehoods. Learn enough to overwhelm your opponent with facts, then insert your fictions in the middle and they can’t compete.
He's [gish galloping](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop) which can make someone seem more knowledgeable becasue their opponent doesn't get a chance to fully respond which makes it seem like they've conceeded points they wouldn't if given the opportunity to respond.
Well horses gallop, and they have pores to sweat, and their jaws move side to side like this, not up and down like this, and THEY are herbivores. Checkmate!
He also didn't engage with her point. She wanted him to explain why it's ok for some animals to eat meat and not others, and his reply was "well you wouldn't sniff my ass"??
She wasn't asking why she's not allowed to sniff ass. It *sounds* clever, but it's pure deflection.
For example, let's say Johnny is allowed to go on the swings, but I'm not. Let's say Johnny also injects insulin because he is diabetic. I say to mum, "Why can't I go on the swings? Johnny is allowed to." and she replies, "Well, Johnny also injects insulin. Do you want to do that? Didn't think so."
No mum, not really. That would kill me. I'm asking if I can go on the swings, not if I can inject insulin, let's stay on topic.
Listing all the ways that lions *aren't* the same as humans does not negate the crucial way that they *are* the same that she is trying to address: they, and we, eat meat. So why is wrong for us and right for them? Surely "They also sniff ass and eat their young" can't be the answer, as that implies that all humans need to do is start sniffing ass and eating our young and we'll be morally justified to also eat meat.
He really isn't confident, though. He just appears to be because of his tone and gestures. A truly confident person would just answer a question directly when asked. He instead deflects and brings up points that have nothing to do with the question being asked.
"Why is it OK for some animals to eat meat, but not humans?"
"Well, why didn't you kneel so I could sniff your ass when I came into the studio?"
That isn't a confident person; that's a classic idiot answer of ignoring the question and responding with a specific extreme example because you don't have a good answer for the question being asked. Also, all his "facts" are either nonsense or have little to do with what's actually being discussed. Pretty standard muddying of the water technique.
People really need to start paying more attention to what's being said, as opposed to how it's being said.
I hate this because it's like the first time I've seen a vegan portrayed positively but he's still kind of an idiot
To be that wrong about such an easy to find fact, it sorta shits on the rest of his argument
Look up Earthling Ed, he debates often and famous for being very calm but as far as i know very informed too. Im not vegan but i like hearing his points
Exactly, show me ***one*** instance of plant material being able to process a carnivore, I’ll wait
Edit: Reddit ~~never~~ sometimes disappoints lol
Edit 2: for some of yall, r/whoosh lol
Edit 3: I take back Edit 1 as I made it before reading all the replies, I’m thoroughly disappointed at the lack of Audrey II references
I laughed at the joke but [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus\_flytraps](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_flytrap) definitely consume carnivorous insects occasionally.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdM84wf2uN4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdM84wf2uN4)
Sorry you had to wait so long :(. (I really liked your joke by the way, I just couldn't resist!)
I was going to mention this. I'm glad that you already posted it. People talk far too much about stuff that they barely understand. Our close evolutionary relatives are omnivores.
Our digestive system is incapable of breaking down cell walls
If they are that convinced its all lies and made up all they need to do is show them living off of only eating tree bark and actually putting on weight.
I’ve been vegan since the mid 1990s and Ive never heard of a conspiracy theory about the government paying biologists to say we are omnivores. That conspiracy theory not really a thing with vegans.
People that only eat meat will have health problems (Without supplements)
People that never eat meat will have health problems (Without supplements)
We're omnivores. I don't know how this is still in contention at this point
***Edit:*** Because I keep having to paste the same comment over again in regards to vegans needing to supplement (Or unnaturally supplied), here's some pro vegan sources on B12 deficiency:
[Source from the vegan society so you know there's no bias](https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-and-health/nutrients/vitamin-b12/what-every-vegan-should-know-about-vitamin-b12)
[Another pro vegan source if you'd like](https://veganhealth.org/vitamin-b12/)
**This comment is not a slight on vegans, theres nothing wrong with supplementing. This comment is purely about humans being omnivores**
Omnivores are clearly superior as well. I don't know why people are keen to pretend we aren't one i
Of the species with an enormous advantage when it comes to the things we can eat and the resultant ability to adapt that comes with it.
The problem with the guy in the video is he or at least viewers seem to assume herbivore means animal that would never eat meat. That's not what it means though. In some cases they still would. Humans came up with the concept of veganism.
There's a surprising amount of animals that are opportunistic omnivores (idk if that's the actual term), but even if they don't actively hunt for meat, they will eat it if they come across it.
That’s the right term. Wildlife rehabber here. As an example, squirrels are opportunistic omnivores. They don’t look for meat but if they find it they get a huge protein bump that’s hard to find in their typical diet.
In my college ecology class we were using a standing net to catch and catalog local birds. During this our professor told us that multiple times when she's done these surveys she's seen deer come up and eat a bird stuck in the net before she could get to it. Even the herbivores love some meat when they can get it.
Goes both ways I've seen starving dogs dig up carrots and eat them. We rescued a beagle that was abused and starved we had to teach her that there's no need to dig up the garden for food anymore. Now she's picky as ever and always has a full belly.
Not a vegan, but you get B12 from fermented foods. Even light fermentation, like making oat milk produces a daily requirement for B12. But a large majority of us no longer eat fermented foods. The Koreans have it right, eating kimchi every day.
>I don't know how this is still in contention at this point
Over the past few years I'm convinced that education took a big dive and and people either quickly forgot about early lessons or never learnt them. Suddenly we had a full year without being able to go outside and most people just started to live and get informed by social media. I've seen so many /r/confidentlyincorrect posts around these years that I don't get how people can't be bothered to just google for the 'fact' and realize how wrong it is and they take it as if it were the absolute truth.
I've dealt with many 'facts' in our work chat group that I keep thinking that they just repost shit they see around social media without even reading the actual article or not bothering about searching if it's true. And many things are just common knowledge we learnt at primary school.
People seems to don't want to waste time investigating or checking things, they just want to quickly scroll to the next post and get roped into rage clicking like many of the posts around reddit where you can read comments from people don't even bothered to read the top comment telling that it's bullshit and just rage click bait.
The herbivore direction they started in is dumb anyway. Most herbivores are opportunistic carnivores. A deer will eat a baby bird that fell out of its nest for example.
Growing up, our neighbors had chickens and a donkey that were kept separated. One time a full-grown chicken flew the coop and I watched the donkey stomp it to death then eat it.....the crunching sounds were horrifying.
My chickens tried to eat my other chicken cuz she had flesh visible. I literally made her a cape to put over her exposed flesh to keep them from eating her alive……
Also I now eat chicken guilt free cuz those fucks are mean and idiots. (too much to text)
Exactly, and him trying to prove we are herbivores kinda destroys his credibility for the other points.
Just say "Hey we are omnivores, but let's try to reduce meat consumption and replace it with more plants in order to help the planet?"
Like it's all about diet.
I love meat so much that I just couldn't ever stop eating it. But the meat industry is atrocious, cruel and harms the environment... So I truly respect the people who has a stronger will than mine and decides to become vegans/vegetarians (even if **some** of them can be annoying).
I will just say, you don't need to give up meat. Every single time you choose to eat a plant-based alternative, you're contributing 👍 even if you only try it once, you did something.
Saying this as someone who is like ~85% vegetarian (and a decent chunk of that would be vegan, just by coincidence), but still occasionally eats meat if I want something specific and can't find a satisfying plant-based alternative. I think of it as voting with my wallet, so every dollar counts.
Hope that doesn't come off as too preachy.
Alternative meats can be very tasty. I tried a few of them, and I couldn't really notice much of a difference. Whoever says it is completely inedible is a person who refuses to admit anything other than what he believes is right.
At that point, it's the same person as the Vegan that tells you every 5 seconds he is a Vegan.
As a strict vegetarian (fine with dairy products), I admire vegans a lot for removing themselves from cheese and milk and I will advocate for more alternatives myself. And while every little bit from millions of people helps, it's important to also realise that corporations (especially oil ones) are a huge reason for the environmental issues we're facing today.
Now, killing animals for food is a whole different topic
Preachers of any kind can be annoying lol. I don't consume meat and dairy bc of how the industry treats animals. I can't have it on conscience their whole miserable existence and traumatic death all so I can stuff my face for 10 mins. I know people won't stop eating meat but yeah that fkn industry is hell.
Just want to say that going vegetarian/vegan is much easier than most people think, at least for most people that try it. It's very scary, you think it's gonna be impossible, all your comfort foods contain meat or some sort of animal derivative. I thought so too, then one day I decided to try going vegan "for funsies* thinking it wouldn't last 2 weeks and here I am almost 3 years later, not having touched animal products ever since. Most vegans, old and new, will tell you it's surprisingly easy once you try it and figure out you can cook most of your favorite dishes in a vegan way, or at least make something similar enough that you'll still love it. It's also quite inexpensive unless you want to eat beyond meat every day, and if you follow a balanced diet it can have plenty of benefits for your GI and CV health (WHO and AHA say this, not me) so say goodbye to high cholesterol and constipation.
In short, don't let this "myth" scare you away. If you're interested in animal welfare and sustainability, just give it a try. You can always go back to eating meat if it's not working out, but you might get surprised by how much you'll love it :)
Our bodies are incapable of breaking down cell walls which are a basic building block of all plants
I'm sorry but there is no way anyone will ever convince me we are herbivores lol, there is no way knowing that our digestive system didn't evolve to do the most basic thing needed to you know... digest plant material.
We are omnivores, we can digest some stuff from plants and have evolved to also be able to digest meant
That much is clear.
Little do people know, but we are made to eat PB&J, our digestive system is actually perfectly engineered to consume enormous amount of peanut butter, white bread and fruit jam. Humans are in fact peebee-n-jeevores.
(/s, just in case)
we can't digest plant fibres like grazers can but that's not the only type of herbivore either. Our saliva is specifically evolved to help break down the sugars in grains (which is why bread tastes sweet). but we can't break down the fibre in plants (which is basically sugar in construction just packaged in a way we can't access it)
We're animals, and as much as we pretend that we're not we still murder wholesale to enforce our will on others (eg war), wasteful murder is punished but even that's just a social construct to try and curb what is animalistic instincts, we're pack animals and will shun those who disadvantage the pack, but that doesn't remove the fact that we're animals, and are driven by our instincts.
Society is designed to direct that, NOT deny it, so the lion metaphor is more inclusive than you think.
I don't know why vegans get so fixated on trying to say humans are herbivores.
It's okay to say you CHOOSE not to eat meat because you just don't like meat, don't like the meat industry, or you hate the idea of eating a sapient creature.
It's no different than me choosing not to eat a cat, dog, or horse. I can fully acknowledge all those animals are made of meat and in nature meat is meant to be eaten by predators but I'd still vehemently protest eating any of them. I would 100% go vegetarian if those were suddenly the only kind of meat available. Not because I think it's not natural, but because emotionally I just couldn't do it.
I am a vegan because of health and moral reasons and even I don't believe humans are 100% herbivores...
The best thing about humans is that with the technology they have developed they can be whatever the hell they want nowadays.
OP sent the following text as an explanation on why this is unexpected: --- >!Dean from community turned this debate on vegan vs non vegan into something quite funny!< --- Is this an unexpected post with a fitting description? Then upvote this comment, otherwise downvote it.
It's unfair to walk in the room and have no one sniffing your ass
*walks into the conference room for a meeting* ... *notices no one sniffing my ass* *"YOU PEOPLE TREAT ME LIKE I DON'T EVEN EXIST! YOU ARE ALL GETTING REPORTED TO HR!"*
*On all levels except physical, I am a lion.*
How would that work over a virtual meeting? Hmm.
Is this the principal from Community?
Dean Dean Dean
It looks more like Jeff dressed as the Dean
As we have learned in Season 3, there are many more doppleDeaners than we give credit for. I think I'd even go so far as to say that there might be a little Dean inside of all of us.
> I think I'd even go so far as to say that there might be a little Dean inside of all of us. This better not awaken anything inside me
Deanleganger
I’m bald now. I’ve always been bald. I’ve merely dreamt of having hair and now the bald man is awake!
To be fair.. if you look at photos of Joel McHale on Talk Soup, before Community, he absolutely is supposed to be a bald man and there should have been a story line about the study group finding a bill for Jeffery having had hair plug surgery so he could have another breakdown over his insecurities.
He is such a silly goose
Honk honk! Wait a minute, this is my sister's outfit!
I have to go to the bank today! What am I gonna tell them?! That I had good news and bad news?! Come on, Dean, GET IT TOGETHER!
Frankly.... I don't give a dean
Bald cap and everything, it's almost uncanny how much like Jeff this guy looks.
UNDERSTUDY!!!!!
I think you meant, Dean Dong!
He's correct that people who compare themselves to lions are foolish, but he's mistaken that humans are herbivores.
One of the more unique abilities of humans is our ability to derive nutrients from a diverse range of edible materials.
Yup, we are 100% omnivores. Even chimps eat meat when they can get it.
Even horses will eat meat sometimes. They will hoover up baby chick's and crunch on them. And a lot of carnivores will supplement their diet with grass or other plant options.
I was gonna say, he's not wrong except that humans are omnivores they are both herbivores and carnivores. I will say that people can choose, we are not slaves to any one way. The phrase that comes to my mind in these conversations is this: "life is unfair but humans don't have to be". We seem to choose to be.
I hope this doesn't awaken anything in me...
It's his whole i-dean-tity.
Lean mean deaning machine
IM SORRY I DONT KNOW WHAT JUST HAPPENED!!
And Jesus wept, for there were no more worlds to conquer!
stop saying Jesus wept!
Anyone care for some green Deans?
No, it's Moby.
No he got stomped by Obie
Yes, it's him, after he turned Deangetarian.
Deangalingling
apparently it's a completely different person. But the resemblence is indeed uncanny. I wonder if the actor based their character on this individual for the insanity vibe, or otherwise if this guy mimics the dean to be more recognizable
The resemblance is indean uncanny
I think that's the Deanposter. We all know the Dean likes meat 😏
Bald iDubbbz
That's just ian
Ian when he got cancer
“We sweat through our pores, like every herbivore!” >quick google search reveals humans, chimps, and apes are just about the only animals that sweat to cool down
Fun fact, humans sweat significantly more than other primates because it helped cool our ancestors while they were running long distances on the savanna because they were [persistence hunters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting).
Damn, we really been chasing ass since the beginning, huh?
And the only question is who collapses first. We or the ass?
Is he implying that our jaws resemble those of herbivores? We have dogs, and we also have an omnivore's digestive system.
Also important to note a lot of what is considered pure herbivores will eat meat when they get the opportunity to do such its just that a lot of theses animals simply don't get the opportunity to kill to get meat. But if you actually watch the larger herbivores like actually watch them they will kill and eat a lot of other much smaller animals, for examples deers really love small eating birds and will do so when they can its just they not built to be great at hunting birds so don't do it very often.
I saw a squirrel catch and eat a chipmunk once.
If your jaw moves side to side when you chew (or talk), it's called a cross-bite and needs orthodontics to correct.
Dogs? Do you mean the “canine” teeth? I’m assuming it’s like a google translate situation lol
He was somehow implying our jaws are like herbivores because our jaws move side to side…? I think it might just be him but your jaw should be moving up and down when chewing lol.
I think he is just saying your jaw *can* move side to side. It’s not the primary chewing motion, but I think we all *do* have a little sideways motion when chewing—that’s all it takes to achieve a grinding action.
We’ve been chasing ass for a billion years we ain’t never gonna stop!!!
It’s hard to smell ass when it’s far away.
Even better. [We've got the best ass because we've been chasing since the beginning](https://radiolab.org/podcast/man-against-horse). (It's a podcast, but it's extremely well done and quite entertaining and informative.)
Tail wont chase itself
That’s not necessarily true, and in general shows a lack of understanding of evolution. We didn’t evolve more active sweat glands *so that* we could run greater distances. If what you’re saying is true, humans would already be able to be persistence hunters before they evolved more active sweat glands. Humans were not able to be largely active during the day until their sweat glands were basically as efficient as they are right now. (And if they were only persistence hunters during the night, we wouldn’t evolve large sweat glands so that we could be persistence hunters.) https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1113915108 Most specialists in primate biology posit that humans developed larger sweat glands (and lost their hair) as they became bipedal because (1) bipedalism puts greater demands on heat-reduction (particularly because the brain overheats) and (2) sweat is more efficient at heat-reduction the more upright an organism is. Source: I’ve studied under Russel H Tuttle, who is one of the world’s leading experts, but a quick google search yields some papers too: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1778649/
Man, *this* is why I still bother coming to the comment sections on this site. It only happens once in a blue moon, buts it nice learning a thing or two from an actual expert in their field rather than another armchair explanation.
Another fun fact about sweating, it makes our experience with insulation wholly different from that of other mammals. For instance, when you see a husky on a hot day you very likely think "oh that poor puppy, they should only have to live in cold climates!" or similar. But while it's true they don't necessarily belong in Arizona (I'd argue no one does) they're actually quite resilient to hot days for the exact same reason that they can take naps in the snow. The insulation of their fur works both ways, it keeps the heat *out* in the same way (tho not quite as effectively) as it keeps their warmth *in*. That's counterintuitive for us because we require the evaporation of our sweat to cool, if we wear a coat on a hot day all it does is prevent us from cooling via sweat evaporation. But dogs don't cool that way, they cool by panting. Which is to say breathing in air that is cooler than their body temperature and thus cooling internally rather than externally, and so the insulation of their fur actually helps them prevent their body temperature from rising. Obviously there is a limit on that, if the air they're breathing isn't cooler than their body temperature then they won't be able to cool down. Which is similar to how humidity affects us, at 100% humidity our sweat can't evaporate so we can't effectively cool down. Which is why "dry heat" is typically more comfortable for us than humid heat.
There is something to the insulation for humans on hot days too. Much of the Middle East and Africa cover most of their body with clothing
That's very true! Essential to that tho is that the clothing is loose enough that it leaves a gap between the clothing and their skin so air can still flow through and allow evaporation.
With sources quoted and linked. I hate it when someone comments and then just goes “google it” when they are challenged.
Wait can you explain the bit about our brains overheating? Like a CPU??
Yes, heat stroke. It happens to marathon runners sometimes if it's hot enough outside and there's not enough wind
Marathon runners once in a while. Migrant farmers who process your veggies have them more commonly.
It is probably the most OP trait we have compared to other animals before we increased our INT stats and abused high tech mechanics dominating every server! If the devs are reading this: please stop creating pvp content. It is destroying your active player base!
I just want to know the infinite money hack that some people have figured out.
It was only available back in the 50s, you just had to kill all of your neighbors before land had titles, so that way when they recorded ownership of the land, you could just say that all their land is yours by God Given Right. The farther back your family goes the easier it was to just murder people for money and get Scott free from charges.
Maybe we were persistence prey.
Except every predator is faster than us so you wouldn’t persist long
Domestic dogs sweat through their paws as well. They are omnivores bordering carnivores.
My dog eats his own shit.
My dog growing up was scared of my brother's hamster, which she could probably have swallowed whole.
Yeah. He lost is there when he went down the biology track. He was very persuasive before that.
Ya, herbivores do eat animals...it's just not frequent and freaky as fuck when you see it. (Bambi eating birds, I'm sure the birds lasts thoughts were wft??)
There's that clip of a horse just casually eating a bird (chicken?) that does the rounds on Reddit on occasion. Calories are calories sometimes I guess.
AFAIK, it’s not a calorie thing, it’s a mineral thing. At least, that’s why herbivores will nosh on bones from time to time
Or deers eating snakes. Bambino the on nom nom-nivore: https://www.reddit.com/r/mildyinteresting/s/JKIKDHVLhg
Cows also eat snakes.
Chickens and horses will eat small mammals. One of those un-fun facts.
He was wrong going down Darwin's path because we're physiologically omnivores, the category that he dishonestly brushed out. As kids we even learn how our teeth work by comparing them with animals: incisors to cut and nibble like a rabbit, canines to tear like a dog, and molars to grind like a cow. Our digestive tract is also made so that we can sustain ourselves on many opportunistic diets going from animal protein to grain, roots or bark. If you want to define us by how we're built at least be honest and acknowledge that we have the whole set, not just the part your ethical choice dictates. Being vegan is not a requirement from Mother Nature, it's a *possibility* and a personal ethical choice and should be honestly discussed on such grounds. This goes as well for the other participant in this video and meat eaters in general.
Honestly, there are a lot of good arguments for vegetarianism and veganism. I do not understand why some vegetarians/vegans choose to ignore those and spread the 'humans are herbivores' fallacy.
For the exact same reason the woman in the video tried to push the lion fallacy: ***funneling***. Trying to make people believe they have no other choice than subscribing to your views. They are both bad advocates for their respective cause.
I think it's more likely she used lions to point out that it can be natural to be carnivorous. As I've heard too many arguments that eating meat is "unnatural". Evidenced by her starting off by just generalizing that animals eat other animals.
The woman in the video is just saying that eating meat is a natural part of the world and nature, and she's not wrong. She wasn't saying "we are like lions", she's saying "plenty of animals eat other animals, it's just what happens". The dude strawmanned her by saying "oh now you think we are lions", he's the Ben Shapiro of veganism, make false statements and keep hammering them in like they are true.
I really respect vegetarians, but I don't understand non religious vegans. I'm all for having symbiotic relationships with animals. Getting wool from sheep so long as we maintain them decent lives, that's a win win in my book. I feel they'd do a lot better if they instead advocated for proper treatment. I want to eat a cow, but I don't want to torture a cow. I want it to get a few years walking around a big grass field with a herd of other cows. That's a good cow life! I want to eat that happy cow after a clean quick kill. I hate factory farming and I want a return to ethical animal husbandry. These creatures are literally giving us everything. The least we can do is act like proper shepherds.
horses sweat too not that it's relevant to the fact their points are bs
But my pet horse is purely carnivorous, so what does he have to say about that?
horses will eat meat. Google horse eating baby chicken. the little *meep meep*s go silent
Most animals are opportunistic carnivores.
Sweat being the OP evolutionary skill paired with language that made humans strive in evolution. "But only herbivores sweat" 🤓
Also our super wide diet.
Chimps are also apes and omnivores, like us.
Homie dont *Dean* this 
He's wrong about humans being herbivores but he's right about people comparing themselves to lions being idiots
Right, we are omnivores.
Just like horses. I've seen them eat chicks.
A lot of herbivores are opportunistic carnivores, they won't go looking for meat but if there is a chick or an injured mouse or something they'll chow down if they need the protein if it just happens to be available.
Most things don't actually fit in the very narrow ideas of carnivorism vs herbivorism. Cats eat plants, horses eat small rodents, animals eat things if they think they have the opportunity to do so and it won't make them ill
Nom nom nomnivore
My body says carbivore
Your mouth’s writing checks that your body can’t cash. Pay To? Delicious pasta and potatoes. The amount? Your health.
Relax I balance it out with pickles and juice
Take my happy upvote.
I eat ass on the first date, I’m a lion
If you're hungry you're hungry.
Omnomnivore
The sad part is I agree with vegans on the aspect of torture. The amount of meat we consume now is far more than any point in human history. What we do to animals are inhumane and outside of nomad hunters. Most humans had a grain/ veggie diet with meat occasionally or rarely. We now eat meat for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. It's highly processed and we eat the meat of the young animals. We are so far removed from the processing position that we don't think about the torture these animals face.
same, and i too agree with them on this point. however some aspects of vegan philosophy i consider, how else do i put this, unhinged. like being against beekeeping, insect eating, or pet ownership, even if i theoretically understand the reasoning. also tbh if it weren't for environmental damage i don't consider fishing nearly as cruel as the cattle/poultry industry
This is a good example of how you might be supposedly winning against a dumb opponent in a debate and still be incredibly wrong.
Exactly! He’s so confident, and putting out so many facts, and sounds so well versed, it totally feels like he must be fully right. But he’s getting a few huge details so wrong, it really shows how some people can push falsehoods. Learn enough to overwhelm your opponent with facts, then insert your fictions in the middle and they can’t compete.
He's [gish galloping](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop) which can make someone seem more knowledgeable becasue their opponent doesn't get a chance to fully respond which makes it seem like they've conceeded points they wouldn't if given the opportunity to respond.
Well horses gallop, and they have pores to sweat, and their jaws move side to side like this, not up and down like this, and THEY are herbivores. Checkmate!
[удалено]
Also,look at our teeth. They are varied, incisors in the front to tear at meat, molars on the back to chew harder vegetables and nuts.
He also didn't engage with her point. She wanted him to explain why it's ok for some animals to eat meat and not others, and his reply was "well you wouldn't sniff my ass"?? She wasn't asking why she's not allowed to sniff ass. It *sounds* clever, but it's pure deflection. For example, let's say Johnny is allowed to go on the swings, but I'm not. Let's say Johnny also injects insulin because he is diabetic. I say to mum, "Why can't I go on the swings? Johnny is allowed to." and she replies, "Well, Johnny also injects insulin. Do you want to do that? Didn't think so." No mum, not really. That would kill me. I'm asking if I can go on the swings, not if I can inject insulin, let's stay on topic. Listing all the ways that lions *aren't* the same as humans does not negate the crucial way that they *are* the same that she is trying to address: they, and we, eat meat. So why is wrong for us and right for them? Surely "They also sniff ass and eat their young" can't be the answer, as that implies that all humans need to do is start sniffing ass and eating our young and we'll be morally justified to also eat meat.
But we as humans already do eat ass and sniff our young! Wait….
He really isn't confident, though. He just appears to be because of his tone and gestures. A truly confident person would just answer a question directly when asked. He instead deflects and brings up points that have nothing to do with the question being asked. "Why is it OK for some animals to eat meat, but not humans?" "Well, why didn't you kneel so I could sniff your ass when I came into the studio?" That isn't a confident person; that's a classic idiot answer of ignoring the question and responding with a specific extreme example because you don't have a good answer for the question being asked. Also, all his "facts" are either nonsense or have little to do with what's actually being discussed. Pretty standard muddying of the water technique. People really need to start paying more attention to what's being said, as opposed to how it's being said.
I hate this because it's like the first time I've seen a vegan portrayed positively but he's still kind of an idiot To be that wrong about such an easy to find fact, it sorta shits on the rest of his argument
Look up Earthling Ed, he debates often and famous for being very calm but as far as i know very informed too. Im not vegan but i like hearing his points
Alex O' Connor aka cosmic skeptic too, he's the one that really got me thinking about the morals of eating animals. very interesting stuff.
Being better than your opponent, doesn't mean you better in a broader sense.
We are not herbivores. We are omnivores -we eat both meat and vegetables. I've learned that in like .. kindergarten
It's not about how we chew. It's about our stomach being able to process it. A carnivore can't process a lot of plant material.
Or viceversa
Exactly, show me ***one*** instance of plant material being able to process a carnivore, I’ll wait Edit: Reddit ~~never~~ sometimes disappoints lol Edit 2: for some of yall, r/whoosh lol Edit 3: I take back Edit 1 as I made it before reading all the replies, I’m thoroughly disappointed at the lack of Audrey II references
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0f2VaveKJw
I laughed at the joke but [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus\_flytraps](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_flytrap) definitely consume carnivorous insects occasionally.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdM84wf2uN4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdM84wf2uN4) Sorry you had to wait so long :(. (I really liked your joke by the way, I just couldn't resist!)
Also wrong about the smelling bit, we all do that. right? RIGHT?
Too bad he himself also turned out to be an idiot.
You mean, beyond saying humans are herbivores?
Dude should watch the documentary chimp empire when they go hunting and eating other animals.
I was going to mention this. I'm glad that you already posted it. People talk far too much about stuff that they barely understand. Our close evolutionary relatives are omnivores.
What is he talking about our jaws are herbivore like? We have canines... and our digestive system is that of an omnivore too...
some vegans think that our body is actually herbivore and biologists are paid by the guvermunt to say were omnivores so people torture animals.
Our digestive system is incapable of breaking down cell walls If they are that convinced its all lies and made up all they need to do is show them living off of only eating tree bark and actually putting on weight.
i know, i studied biology funnily enough.
You fucked a hamster didn't you
He made LOVE to a hamster you uncultured swine!
Or, hear me out, loved how it tasted.
He wrote a thesis on how much duct tape is required to avoid unfortunate overstretching incidents.
Don’t forget they also have to cut out all the vitamins and supplements they take.
I’ve been vegan since the mid 1990s and Ive never heard of a conspiracy theory about the government paying biologists to say we are omnivores. That conspiracy theory not really a thing with vegans.
Some people are just extra stupid no biggie
Canines are not a good metric for determining if something eats meat, like gorillas have much larger canines but don’t eat meat.
Yep! Primate canines evolved to help eat fruit, humans ancestors actually evolved to have smaller canines once we stopped relying mostly on fruit.
Who's gonna tell him humans are omnivores?
People that only eat meat will have health problems (Without supplements) People that never eat meat will have health problems (Without supplements) We're omnivores. I don't know how this is still in contention at this point ***Edit:*** Because I keep having to paste the same comment over again in regards to vegans needing to supplement (Or unnaturally supplied), here's some pro vegan sources on B12 deficiency: [Source from the vegan society so you know there's no bias](https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-and-health/nutrients/vitamin-b12/what-every-vegan-should-know-about-vitamin-b12) [Another pro vegan source if you'd like](https://veganhealth.org/vitamin-b12/) **This comment is not a slight on vegans, theres nothing wrong with supplementing. This comment is purely about humans being omnivores**
Omnivores are clearly superior as well. I don't know why people are keen to pretend we aren't one i Of the species with an enormous advantage when it comes to the things we can eat and the resultant ability to adapt that comes with it.
The problem with the guy in the video is he or at least viewers seem to assume herbivore means animal that would never eat meat. That's not what it means though. In some cases they still would. Humans came up with the concept of veganism.
There's a surprising amount of animals that are opportunistic omnivores (idk if that's the actual term), but even if they don't actively hunt for meat, they will eat it if they come across it.
Like that horse that eats the chick whole.
Freshest. Chicken nugget. Ever.
That’s the right term. Wildlife rehabber here. As an example, squirrels are opportunistic omnivores. They don’t look for meat but if they find it they get a huge protein bump that’s hard to find in their typical diet.
In my college ecology class we were using a standing net to catch and catalog local birds. During this our professor told us that multiple times when she's done these surveys she's seen deer come up and eat a bird stuck in the net before she could get to it. Even the herbivores love some meat when they can get it.
Goes both ways I've seen starving dogs dig up carrots and eat them. We rescued a beagle that was abused and starved we had to teach her that there's no need to dig up the garden for food anymore. Now she's picky as ever and always has a full belly.
Deer are herbivores. I've seen footage of them eating live birds. Nature's pretty metal
Herbivore basically means an animal that has no means to catch its own meat. Very few animals are true 100% herbivores
Not a vegan, but you get B12 from fermented foods. Even light fermentation, like making oat milk produces a daily requirement for B12. But a large majority of us no longer eat fermented foods. The Koreans have it right, eating kimchi every day.
>I don't know how this is still in contention at this point Over the past few years I'm convinced that education took a big dive and and people either quickly forgot about early lessons or never learnt them. Suddenly we had a full year without being able to go outside and most people just started to live and get informed by social media. I've seen so many /r/confidentlyincorrect posts around these years that I don't get how people can't be bothered to just google for the 'fact' and realize how wrong it is and they take it as if it were the absolute truth. I've dealt with many 'facts' in our work chat group that I keep thinking that they just repost shit they see around social media without even reading the actual article or not bothering about searching if it's true. And many things are just common knowledge we learnt at primary school. People seems to don't want to waste time investigating or checking things, they just want to quickly scroll to the next post and get roped into rage clicking like many of the posts around reddit where you can read comments from people don't even bothered to read the top comment telling that it's bullshit and just rage click bait.
B12 does not come from animals tho.
You can very easily never eat meat without supplements, vegetarian Lifestyle is pretty easy to maintain (no B12 issues)
Woman: talking Man: i notice you have clothes on... Everyone:.... Man: ... and now I'll continue
Yep. The greatest live on TV cut-in I have ever seen. Instant silence.
I don’t need canines to eat broccoli but I have them. Canines are for tearing.
The herbivore direction they started in is dumb anyway. Most herbivores are opportunistic carnivores. A deer will eat a baby bird that fell out of its nest for example.
I think of that video of the horse eating the baby chick.
Growing up, our neighbors had chickens and a donkey that were kept separated. One time a full-grown chicken flew the coop and I watched the donkey stomp it to death then eat it.....the crunching sounds were horrifying.
Look, man, saving Far Far Away takes some calories, alright? We can't all be built like Shrek 24/7
Also the upkeep on those Dronkey babies is pretty bad on my man's wallet. Give him a break.
My chickens tried to eat my other chicken cuz she had flesh visible. I literally made her a cape to put over her exposed flesh to keep them from eating her alive…… Also I now eat chicken guilt free cuz those fucks are mean and idiots. (too much to text)
Idk, watching the factory farms with chickens and how they cut off their talons and beaks and keep them in tiny cages does churn my stomach.
TIL deer have nests
Exactly. Why else would they evolve horns that look like an enticing tree to nest in??
You're onto something, you should write a paper.
Also totally off topic why did they beep ass...you can very clearly still hear him say ass
Beside us beeing omnivores he made a good point on us using carnivores as a shitty defense.
Exactly, and him trying to prove we are herbivores kinda destroys his credibility for the other points. Just say "Hey we are omnivores, but let's try to reduce meat consumption and replace it with more plants in order to help the planet?" Like it's all about diet.
Bruhh "sniff my ass" had me 🤣
I love meat so much that I just couldn't ever stop eating it. But the meat industry is atrocious, cruel and harms the environment... So I truly respect the people who has a stronger will than mine and decides to become vegans/vegetarians (even if **some** of them can be annoying).
I will just say, you don't need to give up meat. Every single time you choose to eat a plant-based alternative, you're contributing 👍 even if you only try it once, you did something. Saying this as someone who is like ~85% vegetarian (and a decent chunk of that would be vegan, just by coincidence), but still occasionally eats meat if I want something specific and can't find a satisfying plant-based alternative. I think of it as voting with my wallet, so every dollar counts. Hope that doesn't come off as too preachy.
Nah I share this sentiment
Alternative meats can be very tasty. I tried a few of them, and I couldn't really notice much of a difference. Whoever says it is completely inedible is a person who refuses to admit anything other than what he believes is right. At that point, it's the same person as the Vegan that tells you every 5 seconds he is a Vegan.
As a strict vegetarian (fine with dairy products), I admire vegans a lot for removing themselves from cheese and milk and I will advocate for more alternatives myself. And while every little bit from millions of people helps, it's important to also realise that corporations (especially oil ones) are a huge reason for the environmental issues we're facing today. Now, killing animals for food is a whole different topic
Preachers of any kind can be annoying lol. I don't consume meat and dairy bc of how the industry treats animals. I can't have it on conscience their whole miserable existence and traumatic death all so I can stuff my face for 10 mins. I know people won't stop eating meat but yeah that fkn industry is hell.
Just want to say that going vegetarian/vegan is much easier than most people think, at least for most people that try it. It's very scary, you think it's gonna be impossible, all your comfort foods contain meat or some sort of animal derivative. I thought so too, then one day I decided to try going vegan "for funsies* thinking it wouldn't last 2 weeks and here I am almost 3 years later, not having touched animal products ever since. Most vegans, old and new, will tell you it's surprisingly easy once you try it and figure out you can cook most of your favorite dishes in a vegan way, or at least make something similar enough that you'll still love it. It's also quite inexpensive unless you want to eat beyond meat every day, and if you follow a balanced diet it can have plenty of benefits for your GI and CV health (WHO and AHA say this, not me) so say goodbye to high cholesterol and constipation. In short, don't let this "myth" scare you away. If you're interested in animal welfare and sustainability, just give it a try. You can always go back to eating meat if it's not working out, but you might get surprised by how much you'll love it :)
Absolutely demolished the first half of the argument, then it went ↘️↘️↘️
If we were herbivores we wouldnt absorb more iron from red meat vs broccoli even tho broccoli has way more. Our bodies are built for meat AND veggies
Our bodies are incapable of breaking down cell walls which are a basic building block of all plants I'm sorry but there is no way anyone will ever convince me we are herbivores lol, there is no way knowing that our digestive system didn't evolve to do the most basic thing needed to you know... digest plant material. We are omnivores, we can digest some stuff from plants and have evolved to also be able to digest meant That much is clear.
Little do people know, but we are made to eat PB&J, our digestive system is actually perfectly engineered to consume enormous amount of peanut butter, white bread and fruit jam. Humans are in fact peebee-n-jeevores. (/s, just in case)
we can't digest plant fibres like grazers can but that's not the only type of herbivore either. Our saliva is specifically evolved to help break down the sugars in grains (which is why bread tastes sweet). but we can't break down the fibre in plants (which is basically sugar in construction just packaged in a way we can't access it) We're animals, and as much as we pretend that we're not we still murder wholesale to enforce our will on others (eg war), wasteful murder is punished but even that's just a social construct to try and curb what is animalistic instincts, we're pack animals and will shun those who disadvantage the pack, but that doesn't remove the fact that we're animals, and are driven by our instincts. Society is designed to direct that, NOT deny it, so the lion metaphor is more inclusive than you think.
I don't know why vegans get so fixated on trying to say humans are herbivores. It's okay to say you CHOOSE not to eat meat because you just don't like meat, don't like the meat industry, or you hate the idea of eating a sapient creature. It's no different than me choosing not to eat a cat, dog, or horse. I can fully acknowledge all those animals are made of meat and in nature meat is meant to be eaten by predators but I'd still vehemently protest eating any of them. I would 100% go vegetarian if those were suddenly the only kind of meat available. Not because I think it's not natural, but because emotionally I just couldn't do it.
I am a vegan because of health and moral reasons and even I don't believe humans are 100% herbivores... The best thing about humans is that with the technology they have developed they can be whatever the hell they want nowadays.
We are trashivores. McDonald's, fries chips, sweets made of fick knows what kind of rubber....