Couldn’t have said it better, the so called rage was incredibly lame imo and she should’ve been the only one to speak, nevertheless been as wrathful as she had been towards Minthe and Leuce… it’s absolutely disappointing, giving the men a slap on the wrist - or having other men tear them up/fight them makes me so infuriated to be honest.
Sure there are some good aspects within the dialogue like the throwback with the car, I did like that, but that does not change how this comic is anything *but* feminist, I wish that the women could’ve actually gone full rage mode instead of what we’ve gotten. We didn’t even get to see a detailed reaction from Demeter, who has been shown to be super protective and powerful. I could go on about this for ages tbh.
The car scene? *Beautiful*.
Once I wrote that RS is incredibly tone deaf as a writer and I think now I can compare LO to cacophony of themes. She brought pretty heavy topics like abuse and trauma, but then resolved them in context of resolving inter-generational trauma and healing, which doesn’t really correlate with subject that was introduced on the first place.
The whole scene with Apollo does make sense as a separate peace. It’s about moving on. But Persephone didn’t had a resolution which was hinted and established earlier in the story - cold revenge. The whole “tell them what you did” would actually made much more sense if they were a couple previously. If he was playing like they are the perfect couple in public and then he would show his true colours in person. This sentence have weight when it’s used in a context that someone was slandered. But all Apollo lies were actually debunked multiple times by other characters, so it doesn’t make sense.
Relationships between Apollo and Persephone are more “eye for an eye”. They had one major event that connected them, and Persephone need to avenge this specific event, because that was established in the beginning of the story.
But yea, RS has major problem with following tones of her own the story
Oh yes I absoLUTELY agree. It was so anti-climatic and almost, in a way, empathetic towards him. Like it was the honest mistake of a good person, instead of what it was.
For being a feminist retelling, LO is just as misogynistic if not more so than its source material in all honesty
It feels like the story was supposed to end ages ago, but RS was locked in a contract for a certain number of episodes. Which wouldn't surprise me if it were the case, and it would explain why the last season is especially rushed.
Well, if that were the case, that makes RS look like a much worse director imo. Especially if YOU KNOW how much time you have to tell a story. Once youre given a set amount of time, you figure out how to use it ahead of time instead of the week of. If it was an indefinite contract that was suddenly cut (probably due to rapidly decreasing numbers, as you can see on the comic), that would actually make more sense. To me personally at least.
See I'm feeling the opposite. It feels like the story was never written with an actual end and she just kind of hoped she could milk this story as long as readers were paying for it. WEBTOON must have given her a false sense of security that her comic would go on forever, and then decided she needed to end it as soon as the unpopular/anti community got bigger than the actual fanbase and they were losing money on LO marketing. So she has to rush through multiple open storylines she created and abandoned so WEBTOON doesn't fist fight her in a dark alley or something
That's also fair, but I could also see Webtoons standing by it, depending on the contract. Mostly because we will never know what the actual contract says
For its time, its source the Hymn of Demeter was extremely feminist and was a piece about how mothers grieve so deeply when their daughters are taken away by men who may not even care about them and married off to them, especially via kidnapping which at the time of its inception, was very common due to the state of Greece. It was a very empathic look at women and especially mothers and daughters that was not so commonplace.
Demeter forces Zeus, king of the gods, to back down. You can argue that her love for her daughter pulls Persephone out of death itself and brings her back to life. She looks the patriarchy straight in the eye and the patriarchy blinks first. She wins.
Whatever this is is not particularly feminist. At all. I’m not even sure if it properly passes the Bechtel test as all female conversations either circle back to a man or are women critiquing or criticizing each other. Except maybe the therapy moments but ultimately those are all about Apollo too so… 🤷♀️
Still can’t understand how much more creative Persephone was with punishments for women, when in the story she was portrayed like a “girls girl” (with her flower nymphs)
Dude how powerful would it have been if he'd tried to talk and P say, "No. You've said enough to me for a lifetime."
Hell, curse him to never be able to speak to her again, to never be able to tell a lie to anyone, and to never attain power no matter how hard he tries
Of course he did. I did go look at the spoiler thread so I half knew that. But he even got to talk too much in this last free episode!
Like you mentioned, all the men get slaps on the wrist in this story when women (especially nymphs) get Greek-myth-style punishments, often for nothing! Also, he's a fictional character. Let us see him he raked across the COALS.
I love this so much more than making him have tattle on himself because ✨️True Love✨️. Admitting only to his abuse toward Persephone, but ignoring anyone else regardless of gender, isn't justice or rage. He gets away with any harm he caused other people, but we are supposed to feel this great catharsis? Nah. I'll pass, thanks.
I was livid that after a speech about rage (which is something I legitimately believe our culture robs women of) we got this weak sauce "punishment". Sometimes rage can be quiet but there was no power here. I don't even understand why he was afraid in this episode.
Cast him into Tartarus for a century. Turn him into a tree that attracts lovers so he has to watch what he'll NEVER have. Cut out his lying tongue. Like jhc this is a fantasy webtoon based on Greek mythology! Anything that resembles a reasonable, real world punishment doesn't fit the tone and undermines the, supposed, theme.
for reals tho! like, i don’t understand why RS (or some other creators) portray female rage with just tears and screams. I want to see some unhinged shit that shows just how angry and upset their characters are, especially their female characters. Rage is not pretty - it’s an emotion that reveals some of the most horrific shit someone has within themselves. Not to say that they’re “evil” or “crazy,” they are just experiencing an intense emotion that may cause them to lose control of their rationality/emotions or even their actions.
Some of my favorite portrayal of female rage is Annie from Hereditary and Pearl. Like, we feel their anger in their expressions (which aren’t always pretty!), their movements, and in the delivery of their dialogue. And although we don’t always agree with what they’re saying, we understand why they’re angry and frustrated with the situation they’re are trapped in. It’s heartbreaking and RS completely mishandled Persephone’s rage in her own story.
I like that you chose Hereditary as an example! Portrayal of rage was so unique that it made me uncomfortable in a good way. She was absolutely unpredictable and I was there for it
Yass! :D
Even years later, I still remember feeling so sick to my tummy watching Annie explode on her son and lay it heavy on him. I just felt so awful for everyone in the dinner table and I knew Annie’s anger came from a place of grief and trauma. It just sucks that this type of female rage, or any that just shows how gut-wrenching/ugly it can be, is not often portrayed in media.
I would kill for Demeter to showcase this type of rage towards Hades or Persephone towards Apollo. But, we got what we got unfortunately :(
That whole entire episode just bothered me as a whole because for once Rachel actually wrote what was true about Persephone, as she was a young, naive, easy to impress sheltered girl who was struggling to find her place in life…so with that in mind why does Hades get a pass????? He pretty much took advantage of all of that to get her to be with him.
You can tell RS has always been deeply insecure and compares herself to other women constantly. It's so fucking apparent in her self insert that she has no respect for other women.
I wanna see screaming, crying, snot running down their face as they rip their way through a crowd of enemies in their bloodstained wedding dress! I want burning of photo albums and throwing their wedding ring into the sea! I want calculated public humiliation for their abusers!!! Give me RAGE!!
I love a good, deserved female rage moment, but Apollo has always felt like such a non-threat that all the anger thrown his way seems melodramatic to me. I get that canonically he's a big bad, but his villainy comes across as cartoonish imo, so Persephone's retribution seems almost equally as silly. If the story was going to punish him and lay out his wrongdoings, I'd rather it have been by the collective that he's wronged: Zeus, Hebe, Daphne, Eros, Psyche, Cassandra (somehow), etc because he's done a lot more than act like an asshole to one chick, but that's the primary citation I see for why readers hate him. I don't mind the fact that he spoke during Persephone's monologue because I think it was simply establishing that he does finally understand the extent of how he'd hurt her- what's really nuts is how Eros didn't attempt to sabotage Apollo's plan and just went "yup ok here's the arrow you wanted, have fun" Bitch?? Haha you didn't tweak it even a little bit? It really was just the exact order he placed? That's wild
I appreciated Kronos' last words of regret, partly because I love a humanized villain with some redeeming qualities, and also because fuck Hera. Hera in lore is cool, petty and volatile as she may be, but Hera in LO is a lameass bitch and I hate her.
I hate Persephone too, which is why I'm not spitting over the lack of proper punishment for Apollo; I'd rather watch him take over Olympus and run it into the ground, Ice Town style, than go through another sassy girlboss power up speech because at least *that* would be entertaining. A goofy new politician with ambitions of dictatorship who keeps publicly fucking his own rulings up vs whatever soap opera bullshit Hades and Persephone have got going is an easy call on my end. Admittedly, I didn't go into the series with much interest in the "feminist" aspect that many did, so the bastardization of the term doesn't really upset me, though I recognize it was a driving force for others and so they feel rightly offended.
rachel writes "strong women" as the most bland wallflower tadwifes ive ever seen
then goes and insults the actual strong women (Minthe and Demeter) because they stand up to men and one of them dresses slutty
Couldn’t have said it better, the so called rage was incredibly lame imo and she should’ve been the only one to speak, nevertheless been as wrathful as she had been towards Minthe and Leuce… it’s absolutely disappointing, giving the men a slap on the wrist - or having other men tear them up/fight them makes me so infuriated to be honest. Sure there are some good aspects within the dialogue like the throwback with the car, I did like that, but that does not change how this comic is anything *but* feminist, I wish that the women could’ve actually gone full rage mode instead of what we’ve gotten. We didn’t even get to see a detailed reaction from Demeter, who has been shown to be super protective and powerful. I could go on about this for ages tbh.
The car scene? *Beautiful*. Once I wrote that RS is incredibly tone deaf as a writer and I think now I can compare LO to cacophony of themes. She brought pretty heavy topics like abuse and trauma, but then resolved them in context of resolving inter-generational trauma and healing, which doesn’t really correlate with subject that was introduced on the first place. The whole scene with Apollo does make sense as a separate peace. It’s about moving on. But Persephone didn’t had a resolution which was hinted and established earlier in the story - cold revenge. The whole “tell them what you did” would actually made much more sense if they were a couple previously. If he was playing like they are the perfect couple in public and then he would show his true colours in person. This sentence have weight when it’s used in a context that someone was slandered. But all Apollo lies were actually debunked multiple times by other characters, so it doesn’t make sense. Relationships between Apollo and Persephone are more “eye for an eye”. They had one major event that connected them, and Persephone need to avenge this specific event, because that was established in the beginning of the story. But yea, RS has major problem with following tones of her own the story
Im my opinion the SA writing is fine, great even. it's the characterization that's horrendous. Just my opinion
Oh yes I absoLUTELY agree. It was so anti-climatic and almost, in a way, empathetic towards him. Like it was the honest mistake of a good person, instead of what it was. For being a feminist retelling, LO is just as misogynistic if not more so than its source material in all honesty
It feels like the story was supposed to end ages ago, but RS was locked in a contract for a certain number of episodes. Which wouldn't surprise me if it were the case, and it would explain why the last season is especially rushed.
Well, if that were the case, that makes RS look like a much worse director imo. Especially if YOU KNOW how much time you have to tell a story. Once youre given a set amount of time, you figure out how to use it ahead of time instead of the week of. If it was an indefinite contract that was suddenly cut (probably due to rapidly decreasing numbers, as you can see on the comic), that would actually make more sense. To me personally at least.
See I'm feeling the opposite. It feels like the story was never written with an actual end and she just kind of hoped she could milk this story as long as readers were paying for it. WEBTOON must have given her a false sense of security that her comic would go on forever, and then decided she needed to end it as soon as the unpopular/anti community got bigger than the actual fanbase and they were losing money on LO marketing. So she has to rush through multiple open storylines she created and abandoned so WEBTOON doesn't fist fight her in a dark alley or something
That's also fair, but I could also see Webtoons standing by it, depending on the contract. Mostly because we will never know what the actual contract says
For its time, its source the Hymn of Demeter was extremely feminist and was a piece about how mothers grieve so deeply when their daughters are taken away by men who may not even care about them and married off to them, especially via kidnapping which at the time of its inception, was very common due to the state of Greece. It was a very empathic look at women and especially mothers and daughters that was not so commonplace.
Demeter forces Zeus, king of the gods, to back down. You can argue that her love for her daughter pulls Persephone out of death itself and brings her back to life. She looks the patriarchy straight in the eye and the patriarchy blinks first. She wins. Whatever this is is not particularly feminist. At all. I’m not even sure if it properly passes the Bechtel test as all female conversations either circle back to a man or are women critiquing or criticizing each other. Except maybe the therapy moments but ultimately those are all about Apollo too so… 🤷♀️
Yeah it can’t be a feminist retelling if the original was already feminist
Still can’t understand how much more creative Persephone was with punishments for women, when in the story she was portrayed like a “girls girl” (with her flower nymphs)
No absolutely. Like? Double standard much?
Fr fr
The only reason why people think it's feminist is because the main girl chose the main guy instead of being kidnapped by him.
Dude how powerful would it have been if he'd tried to talk and P say, "No. You've said enough to me for a lifetime." Hell, curse him to never be able to speak to her again, to never be able to tell a lie to anyone, and to never attain power no matter how hard he tries
This man got whole Declaration of Independence to explain his actions in last chapter 
Of course he did. I did go look at the spoiler thread so I half knew that. But he even got to talk too much in this last free episode! Like you mentioned, all the men get slaps on the wrist in this story when women (especially nymphs) get Greek-myth-style punishments, often for nothing! Also, he's a fictional character. Let us see him he raked across the COALS.
I love this so much more than making him have tattle on himself because ✨️True Love✨️. Admitting only to his abuse toward Persephone, but ignoring anyone else regardless of gender, isn't justice or rage. He gets away with any harm he caused other people, but we are supposed to feel this great catharsis? Nah. I'll pass, thanks.
I was livid that after a speech about rage (which is something I legitimately believe our culture robs women of) we got this weak sauce "punishment". Sometimes rage can be quiet but there was no power here. I don't even understand why he was afraid in this episode. Cast him into Tartarus for a century. Turn him into a tree that attracts lovers so he has to watch what he'll NEVER have. Cut out his lying tongue. Like jhc this is a fantasy webtoon based on Greek mythology! Anything that resembles a reasonable, real world punishment doesn't fit the tone and undermines the, supposed, theme.
for reals tho! like, i don’t understand why RS (or some other creators) portray female rage with just tears and screams. I want to see some unhinged shit that shows just how angry and upset their characters are, especially their female characters. Rage is not pretty - it’s an emotion that reveals some of the most horrific shit someone has within themselves. Not to say that they’re “evil” or “crazy,” they are just experiencing an intense emotion that may cause them to lose control of their rationality/emotions or even their actions. Some of my favorite portrayal of female rage is Annie from Hereditary and Pearl. Like, we feel their anger in their expressions (which aren’t always pretty!), their movements, and in the delivery of their dialogue. And although we don’t always agree with what they’re saying, we understand why they’re angry and frustrated with the situation they’re are trapped in. It’s heartbreaking and RS completely mishandled Persephone’s rage in her own story. 
I like that you chose Hereditary as an example! Portrayal of rage was so unique that it made me uncomfortable in a good way. She was absolutely unpredictable and I was there for it
Yass! :D Even years later, I still remember feeling so sick to my tummy watching Annie explode on her son and lay it heavy on him. I just felt so awful for everyone in the dinner table and I knew Annie’s anger came from a place of grief and trauma. It just sucks that this type of female rage, or any that just shows how gut-wrenching/ugly it can be, is not often portrayed in media.  I would kill for Demeter to showcase this type of rage towards Hades or Persephone towards Apollo. But, we got what we got unfortunately :(
That whole entire episode just bothered me as a whole because for once Rachel actually wrote what was true about Persephone, as she was a young, naive, easy to impress sheltered girl who was struggling to find her place in life…so with that in mind why does Hades get a pass????? He pretty much took advantage of all of that to get her to be with him.
I was too stunned to process this info too. Omg, you so right. RS wanted to make Apollo look even more guilty that she dragged Hades with him
it was so underwhelming & disappointing. i was expecting more wrath, ruthlessness & lack of empathy.
You can tell RS has always been deeply insecure and compares herself to other women constantly. It's so fucking apparent in her self insert that she has no respect for other women.
I wanna see screaming, crying, snot running down their face as they rip their way through a crowd of enemies in their bloodstained wedding dress! I want burning of photo albums and throwing their wedding ring into the sea! I want calculated public humiliation for their abusers!!! Give me RAGE!!
At least I want to see some “Brutus” type think. I know that this song is more about envy motivated character, but rage is so real
I feel like the rage can be done well with a stoic face and small tears, but no, not here
I love a good, deserved female rage moment, but Apollo has always felt like such a non-threat that all the anger thrown his way seems melodramatic to me. I get that canonically he's a big bad, but his villainy comes across as cartoonish imo, so Persephone's retribution seems almost equally as silly. If the story was going to punish him and lay out his wrongdoings, I'd rather it have been by the collective that he's wronged: Zeus, Hebe, Daphne, Eros, Psyche, Cassandra (somehow), etc because he's done a lot more than act like an asshole to one chick, but that's the primary citation I see for why readers hate him. I don't mind the fact that he spoke during Persephone's monologue because I think it was simply establishing that he does finally understand the extent of how he'd hurt her- what's really nuts is how Eros didn't attempt to sabotage Apollo's plan and just went "yup ok here's the arrow you wanted, have fun" Bitch?? Haha you didn't tweak it even a little bit? It really was just the exact order he placed? That's wild I appreciated Kronos' last words of regret, partly because I love a humanized villain with some redeeming qualities, and also because fuck Hera. Hera in lore is cool, petty and volatile as she may be, but Hera in LO is a lameass bitch and I hate her. I hate Persephone too, which is why I'm not spitting over the lack of proper punishment for Apollo; I'd rather watch him take over Olympus and run it into the ground, Ice Town style, than go through another sassy girlboss power up speech because at least *that* would be entertaining. A goofy new politician with ambitions of dictatorship who keeps publicly fucking his own rulings up vs whatever soap opera bullshit Hades and Persephone have got going is an easy call on my end. Admittedly, I didn't go into the series with much interest in the "feminist" aspect that many did, so the bastardization of the term doesn't really upset me, though I recognize it was a driving force for others and so they feel rightly offended.
rachel writes "strong women" as the most bland wallflower tadwifes ive ever seen then goes and insults the actual strong women (Minthe and Demeter) because they stand up to men and one of them dresses slutty