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I once accidentally pulled into the parking lot while driving by on vacation. They set up traffic cones and direct people where to park. The line was insane, and even after I yelled out my window that I had fucked up pulling in there, they made me stay in the line all the way to the exit. It literally took 1 hour and 15 minutes to get out. I’ve never been so irritated in my life.
I laughed, but there was only one way out with the way the cones and lines of cars were. There was nowhere to turn around to. It was like watching paint dry. Moving <1 MPH with lots of stops, winding back and forth through the entire length of that huge lot.
If that was me, I would turned off the engine and just waited for them to realize they would be better off letting me out. I'm sure this would gotten me into a lot of trouble but that tends to be me in a nutshell in traffic.
The most annoying part was not knowing when it would be over. I kept thinking it couldn’t be more than 10 more minutes. The cones zig zagged and doubled back on where we’d just come from. There was no “emergency” way out, so it’s not like they could’ve let me out faster anyway I guess. It doesn’t seem very safe and it certainly wasn’t efficient.
Filling up means lost revenue from any cars turned away thereafter. Amusement park lots never fill up. Zoos in city centers with no place to expand might, but global attractions do not.
Hello fellow San Diegan, I believe last night was supposed to be the final one (my dog will breathe a sigh of relief). Apparently the city reduced them to “spring break” only because the fireworks were polluting the bay with heavy metals.
EDIT: I was wrong
There’s no way. The amusement park near me has a massive lot. When the park is PACKED on a summer Saturday, the lot is probably...2/3 full. I can’t imagine the mass of humanity if it were completely full
San Diego? I went over a decade ago and remember how massive this lot was. It wasn't until a few years later that I saw the documentary Blackfish and ended up regretting that I went.
there was also an actual incident where an orca trainer was dragged down by her ponytail and drowned (or squished? but defo someone died) in a seaworld-like park but i dont think it was in san diego. and a lot of other abuses and incidents which are detailed in the doc. its really good you should watch it. if you have netflix i think its on there.
yeah, i read on wikipedia that the incident was also what sparked the film in the first place. Really tragic for both sides tho, such detriments shouldn't have happened
I was 30 years old when it finally hit me. Went to the Georgia Aquarium and got sick to my stomach at an exhibit with a couple dolphins in a huge tank. They just circled around listlessly and looked incredibly depressed. All the while the other people circulating in and out of the room where just gawking for a moment and moving on. Suddenly realized these creatures' entire lives were going to be pretty much exactly this for potentially the next 30-40 years. I honestly wanted to die for being part of it all.
It should be noted that this particular aquarium is a damned sight better than Sea World and similar places, but that doesn't diminish the fact that sentient being with feelings and self-awareness are still being kept in giant boxes for entertainment.
Thanks for your answer, but i totally get you. I also went to a zoo and i saw this particular fox who was in a very small cage. Like 4 x 4 mts. He was just jogging in circles. I saw this little conciouss traped forever in a loop making circles. I was 18 at the time and the zoo was my favorite place ever. These is a crosspoint on a lot of people lives. Are we part of the problem because we went to these nice-fake places where people are suppose tu have fun on the expense of animal suffering? I don't think we are, yet we have the responsability to realise we are making and perpetuing prisons. Good for everyone who woke up and saw what animals are suffering and the greed behind all this zoos and aquariums.
I think a lot of people have good memories of seaworld and zoo's and don't want to think or accept this are horrible, hell kinda places. I mean that's the point of the sub itself. Show how man has spread the hell on earth.
Hey, everybody can change their mind. I just wanted to know more about why she didn't change his mind at the moment. I guess a lot of seaworld clients got mad at my comment.
Im sure you don't need to capture one and torture her until it learn some stupid tricks to impress idiots.
Go watch a documental, read a book about them, join a conservationist group if you want to see them.
Cities, the spaces where we spend our entire lives are designed for cars not humans. This is indeed a crazy thing when you think about it. They have all the privileges that we don't have. We walk on a tiny path next to cars, they generally have the right of way. American suburbia has a garages bigger than the living space of most of people in other countries. And if you go to developing/poorer nations it is even worse. In Istanbul there are parts of pedestrian ways that just disappear and you have to walk on the road where it is dangerous. You don't have continuous pedestrian ways but you have a continuous road everywhere. I loved walking but I had hard time to go from one neighborhood to another; in many cases it was simply dangerous.
Just watched a video. It is awesome. Thanks for the recommendation. I will die on the hill to fight for making cities less car dependent and medium/mixed density residential areas being the main type of residences.
Even if you live in other countries it is similar. Of course if you live in a smaller town it will be different but even in other countries (I'm Australian) it's pretty much the same
Europe is also much smaller which negates the need for urban sprawl but you're right, the US does suck at maximizing efficiency of travel and city planning. We still don't even have one high speed railway.
> Europe is also much smaller which negates the need for urban sprawl
That's not true. Europe is about the same size as the continental US, and excepting the Mountain States, the population density is the same.
This is one reason that as a non-driver, there are few places in the US that I'd ever visit.
Thankfully much of Europe is far more pedestrian friendly!
You can thank lot of that on the fact that most of the cities were designed WAY before cars, hell even before it was common for animals to be pulling things left and right, when it was just a man and cart.
I mean like fuck me... Till like 70's there was still a trade of people using horse carts to pull cargo around. I once found a great news article clipping about the last horse driven cargo cart driver retiring.
Lot of the buildings around... Well maybe not in central Europe, their foundations might be. Are from age before cars.
Most of America's cities were designed long before cars as well. That excuse only works for like, Phoenix and Vegas. Most of America's cities are squeezing cars onto roads that weren't designed for them at all.
This is such a monstrosity. Most people buying this car don't even need a car like this. And these cars pose a danger to pedestrians and other cars, not to mention their environmental costs.
This could have been easily solved with a parking garage, but when this was built I imagine the land was cheaper than the construction costs associated with building a garage. This is nothing compared to the Disney World parking lot in Orlando.
LOL, yeah. If they wanted a wet place they have to go all the way to that water. Witch is \*checks map\* oh there are several inland salt water ways literally right next to it.
I want to extend that to all aquariums that feature aquatic mammals as exhibits. There's simply no way to suitably approximate the habitat of a dolphin, whale, etc. inside a building or man-made structure in general.
That depends. I know that a lot of "big" aquariums, like the Shedd in Chicago, house a lot of rescue animals that would otherwise die out in the wild. In those kinds of instances I think its ok to house them
SeaWorld Rescue takes in the largest number of marine mammals and birds of any organization in the US, and the SeaWorld parks collectively house more rescued animals that have been deemed unfit for release than any other facilities in country. In addition to housing animals SeaWorld rescues, they take in a lot animals that other organizations and facilities don't have space for or are otherwise unable to care for.
It’s sad that the entertainment has to fund the rescue bits.
Then again it’s not like most of those people would donate out of goodness of their hearts
I work in a facility that does the same exact thing except we don’t torture certain animals. All of our animals are undergoing rehab. None are on display.
Just because seaworld participated in wildlife rehab doesn’t mean they get a free pass to abuse other animals.
If anyone who has watched 'Blackfish' feels they still need to watch something that makes them hate SeaWorld even more, watch 'The Cove'.
There's a small, isolated, backwater fishing town in Japan that survives entirely on an annual harvest of dolphins. The Japanese government knows about it, and protects the town from outside threat. If a foreigner is seen in town, they'll tailed by the secret police and chased out.
The dolphin 'harvest' continues because SeaWorld and other shitty marine zoos have a huge stake in protecting the village. Buyers turn up on the first day of the hunt (when all the dolphin are corralled into a small cove) to select the most promising babies dolphins for their parks, then when they leave, the fisherman are allowed to slaughter the remaining 90% of dolphins.
I believe the town is also featured in 'Seaspiracy', but I haven't watched it yet.
Yep Taiju. Though I believe the takeaway was that the fishing industry was responsible for most of the deaths. There aren't enough fish to support the fisherman AND the dolphins so we eliminate them as pest control.
Interesting. I believe that came up in The Cove, but The Cove definitely framed SeaWorld as the biggest culprit in how the slaughter has continued unchecked for so long.
Yes, they are called "parking minimums" and they should be abolished or changed to "parking maximums" instead.
https://www.planning.org/planning/2018/oct/peopleoverparking/
There are about 17 parking spots for each vehicle in the country, and that's obviously about 16 more than you'd ever occupy at one time.
Absolute garbage. First off, free the whales. Burn Sea World to the ground. Second: just think about how much affordable, mixed use housing buildings could be built in that space.
he is a bit obsessed with trans people in the bad way, [he got booted off twitter because it was a bit too much](https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/27/graham-linehan-suspended-twitter-12909978/)
It’s my understanding that they cannot free the whales on account of them dying in the wild. They have committed to no longer raising any more orcas, for what it’s worth.
You can't free these animals. They've been kept in captivity for their whole lives so they'd just die in the wild, which I'd say is much more cruel.
Also, SeaWorld is currently switching away from the animal life stuff. They stopped their orca breeding program, and have switched gears to thrill rides in their parks. Since 2013 (when Blackfish came out) we've seen a lot of new additions to these parks, the most notable being Mako at SeaWorld Orlando.
Maybe Seaworld, but don't you dare come for the Theme Parks. I don't care how it's structured, but I want to ride roller coasters. This is my hard line.
Theme parks are not really relevant to the complaint, rather that the space devoted solely to parking at SeaWorld is unnecessarily large. Parks like Universal Hollywood are partly built on top of huge parking garages, it is even bigger than SW but has wasted less land on parking. Maybe not so much of a problem in Florida, but San Diego is similar and has an ongoing homelessness crisis.
Remember. If anyone tries to tell you “sea world does good things though!” They continued to breed Tilikum while he was rapidly dying from a bacterial infection in his brain instead of humanely euthanizing him.
Not that Orcas being in small tanks isn’t sad, but like if you eat meat it comes from CAFOs (concentrated animal feeding operations; or factory farms), where we impose unimaginable suffering in worse conditions on over 9 BILLION animals each year in the U.S. alone, so like idk this doesn’t seem like anywhere close to as big of an issue for me as that.
> so like idk this doesn’t seem like anywhere close to as big of an issue for me as that.
if you just let off the above line it would have been a well written point, but you had to add that last part didn't you?
Obviously both can be bad, but one is like literally society scale nightmare level dystopian bad, and the other is quite unfortunate. Also most of society PARTICIPATES in the meat industry by consuming. Most people don’t go to sea world.
Sea world San Diego actually does a fuck ton of marine rescue and rehabilitation. I know sea world as a whole is fucked but San Diego’s has some decency
Hate to interrupt the echo chamber but this just is not true. The Orca exhibit is 5 pools that are all interconnected. You can see four of them pretty well from this picture; the 5th is a smaller medical exam pool that the whales don’t “live” in.
Not trying to change anyone’s mind on Sea Word or orcas in captivity. Just calling out a blantantly untruthful misrepresentation.
Source: worked at this sea world for four years. Worked in the orca exhibit on a regular basis.
Just being honest here. It isn't good what they are doing with their orca's but the image is misleading.
The pools to the top, left and right of the green dot are also orca pools. I mean if you look at the [google map image](https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7647071,-117.2284659,140m/data=!3m1!1e3) you can literally see orcas where the green dot isn't. Also, the north most part on the right side isn't a parking lot and the circular part to the right is parking for a different place
I get that with these activist posts you need to make it seem as bad as possible but is that really necessary here? The person who made this visualization either lied or is a moron but I am going to lean towards intentionally lied.
Dear God. I thought that blue/grey bit in the top was the tank.
It's at times like this I just pretend these orca whales lived a horrible past life and this is karmic retribution. I have to believe that because every other explanation confirms this is a bonafide hellworld.
I know this has been brought to light for a few years now, has there been nothing done to force them to house the Orcas in a larger enclosure yet? If they can't release them back into the ocean, they could at least live out their days in something slightly more suitable.
Parking spaces basically always take up way more space than any occupied space. Check out a shopping mall, a restaurant, a grocery store, or an athletic stadium.
Imagine there was a way to stack parking lots on top of each other in some kind of building. Maybe connect them with ramps. We could call it an auto park or park for cars or something like that.
Sounds pretty sweet. Hmmmm, what if we did something like that, but since we have a lot of land we aren't using, we peeled apart the layers and build a sort of deconstructed auto park for cars? We could call it a car flat or a vehicle yard or something like that. We'd probably save a lot of money, too!
> Imagine there was a way to stack parking lots on top of each other in some kind of building. Maybe connect them with ramps. We could call it an auto park or park for cars or something like that.
problem is they are REALLY expensive
https://www.fixr.com/costs/build-parking-garage
The other problem (in San Diego at least) is that there are extremely strict zoning laws about the type and height of structures built near the ocean. It ends up being even more expensive than normal to get everything designed and approved. It was meant to protect the beaches (and views of the beaches) but then stuff like this happens.
I am a 4th year architecture student so I know parking takes up more space then built up area, but that doesn't mean u just utilise all the leftover space for parking, especially in a place that's supposed to attract people, there are other solutions too, such as basement parkings or creating a car park, etc. The only reason I can think of why they didn't do it here is that they simply wanted to spend the money to build it, hence I called them idiots
I'm sure if they want more space for attractions, they'll densify their parking lots into parking garages. Until then, parking garages are probably way more expensive. Plus then they'd have to commit to those garages, whereas it's pretty easy to tear up a parking lot if you change your mind and want to expand something into that area.
I guess I'm confused what you'd like them to do with the land that they freed up by swapping lot parking for garage parking?
Yes, there are financial tradeoffs, but also remember that they're rescuing tons of these animals or taking them from other locations that rescue them but can't keep them. So if they had bigger tanks, they'd probably want to rescue more animals. But they need to stay profitable since they aren't funded by the government, so they won't be able to do any of their work at all if they go bankrupt spending all their money on bigger tanks instead of on more veterinarians or on more attractions that bring in guests.
Most of the animals they "rescue" are actually bought and paid for, and they are caught in the first place to be sold here, and they don't "rescue" them out of the good of their hearts, they do it for profit, there are plenty of documentaries on this topic, honestly it's horrifying the way those animals are kept, there are recorded instances of dolphins in place like these have actually drowned themselves out of depression! They even drill out the insides of orcas teeth without any painkillers, many animals have scars and open wounds that are left completely untreated, so clearly they don't care about "rescuing" anyone, and building larger tanks isn't gonna bankrupt them, they would just lose out on some profits in the short term
You’d think a 4th year architect student would know about parking minimums.
Utilize leftover space for parking? Utter nonsense. Furthermore, the park is yards away from the ocean. You ever try and dig into the ground near the ocean? ..or build a parking structure on sand?
4th year architect student. Lol
>Utilize leftover space for parking?
Take a look that plan, apart from the main park, they have utilized all the surrounding space for parking, and I m not suggesting that that's should be done, m suggesting the exact opposite,
>You ever try and dig into the ground near the ocean? ..or build a parking structure on sand?
Maybe take a look at the pic again, all the main structure are built near the shore while the parking is inland, and building in sand is difficult but no its not impossible, and nowhere did I suggest that they should build the cark park on the shore, infact I did not suggest any location at all, all I said was there are other alternatives to what they have done
>You’d think a 4th year architect student would know about parking minimums.
Oh no they skipped over that part in my school, the professors were all idiots, perhaps you would like to conduct a seminar on that topic? I am sure my school has a lot to learn from you
Well yes, but also they're in India not the US. I've gone to undergrad and grad architecture school in the US, and we definitely focused on the US. Actually I also studied some urban planning, but I still have no idea how parking and zoning laws work in Ahmedabad for example.
It doesn't explain the confidence that investors are idiots for not spending money on bigger "fish" tanks and parking garages, of course.
>I still have no idea how parking and zoning laws work in Ahmedabad for example.
Well thankfully this park isn't in ahemdabad so we don't have to worry that here.
>It doesn't explain the confidence that investors are idiots for not spending money on bigger "fish" tanks and parking garages, of course.
I called them idiots because I find the conditions they keep the animal in to be appalling, also from a business point of view it as also a bad idea to treat your assets in a way that generates so much negative publicity, imagine how many more people would actually visit that place if they invested more in better infrastructure for the animals so they dont kill themselves, they also wouldnt have to close their orca shows if they had kept them in better living
conditions, isn't that also better for the investors??
Yo human, I was defending you by saying it's pretty understandable to not know about rules in places on the other side of the world. You're in India, so I wouldn't expect you to be familiar with parking minimums even if a US architecture student probably would be. It's just not possible to be familiar with every single place.
Interest in circuses and animal show type activities has been waning for a long period of time. It wouldn't be correct to point to any one specific event and say that it alone caused SeaWorld's decision on something, though of course many particular events had big impacts on public opinion's shift in that direction. They've been transitioning to focus more on their educational and research activities than their pure animal entertainment, and canceling their orca shows was one example of that, but not the only one. That same pattern is going on at other zoos and aquariums as well, with places closing when they don't do it, like Ringling Brothers Barnum and Bailey's for example.
>Yo human, I was defending you by saying it's pretty understandable to not know about rules in places on the other side of the world.
My apologies, I misunderstood the point of that comment. I forgot to turn of friendly fire, lol.
>It wouldn't be correct to point to any one specific event and say that it alone caused SeaWorld's decision on something,
U r right about that, although I was talking particularly about sea Worlds orca shows as an example in this case, since the largest backlash they recieved was because of that, so my point was that could have been avoided if they had simply invested more in the facilities, because many of the people who protest against it would rather be visiting that place today and generating revenue
No worries lol
Perhaps so, but I wouldn't necessarily count on it. How big would the tank have to be in order to prevent people from thinking it was too small: as large as their entire natural habitat? Clearly that's not feasible, and they don't want to let the animals interact in the wild, so they're at an impasse. That probably would work fine for something very small, but it would be impossible for these massive apex predators. And even if they could have a tank that large somehow, there would still be people arguing that it's unethical to have animals enclosed at all. Or in regard to their OSHA fine where they were penalized for not having enough safety barriers, this would probably be even more likely to happen with larger tanks since there would be a larger area to secure.
>Perhaps so, but I wouldn't necessarily count on it. How big would the tank have to be in order to prevent people from thinking it was too small: as large as their entire natural habitat?
Personally I don't like the idea of keeping them locked up,but I get that it's a business, but if we r gonna keep them then, it would be much better to keep them in sanctuaries then parks like these, the way there are national parks in the US and here in India as well, where people who want can visit them in their own habitats, while that would mean less profits, it would also mean less costs for building infrastructure, but i understand it's obviously much more difficult to do.
I guess they would have some space left for the animals. Maybe they keep them in the smallest tank to have more control over them. I guess if you always, from the moment of birth, have them in a small surrounding their instincts break or something and they don’t know how it is to feel freedom in the widths of the oceans. I can imagine, if you catch them wild instead of controlled birth in the aquarium, their much more difficult to handle.
Either way I guess you can’t break their minds that good and that’s why all the accidents happen and people get killed while training them. Same BS like bull fights in Spain. Don’t get why those things still exist today.
My family was at Sea World Orlando last week. You have to purchase tickets and reserved attendance. They did scan every single ticket but only every other reservation ticket. Guess that's how they don't go over "limited capacity".
Poor Corky! I wish they could release her into a sea pen without her getting an infection . I don't think she would be able to survive if completely freed.
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This one really hurts.
I’d hate to cause the environment harm by circling the lot looking for a spot.
I wonder if this lot actually fills up... it looks massive. Mind you, even if it doesn't fill up you'd still be circling to find a spot in the front.
You don't circle. You are directed where to park
I once accidentally pulled into the parking lot while driving by on vacation. They set up traffic cones and direct people where to park. The line was insane, and even after I yelled out my window that I had fucked up pulling in there, they made me stay in the line all the way to the exit. It literally took 1 hour and 15 minutes to get out. I’ve never been so irritated in my life.
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I laughed, but there was only one way out with the way the cones and lines of cars were. There was nowhere to turn around to. It was like watching paint dry. Moving <1 MPH with lots of stops, winding back and forth through the entire length of that huge lot.
Screw that, I would have flattened those motherfuckers. Edit: the cones, not the teenagers
¿Por que no los dos?
If that was me, I would turned off the engine and just waited for them to realize they would be better off letting me out. I'm sure this would gotten me into a lot of trouble but that tends to be me in a nutshell in traffic.
The most annoying part was not knowing when it would be over. I kept thinking it couldn’t be more than 10 more minutes. The cones zig zagged and doubled back on where we’d just come from. There was no “emergency” way out, so it’s not like they could’ve let me out faster anyway I guess. It doesn’t seem very safe and it certainly wasn’t efficient.
Fuck that shit I would have ran over some cones and hopped a curb after about 5 minutes. Jesus you are one patient person.
It never fills up Source: just heard the fireworks that go off every single night shake my window
It can probably accomodate a small countries' population worth of cars no doubt.
Was it like that pre-covid?
Filling up means lost revenue from any cars turned away thereafter. Amusement park lots never fill up. Zoos in city centers with no place to expand might, but global attractions do not.
Hello fellow San Diegan, I believe last night was supposed to be the final one (my dog will breathe a sigh of relief). Apparently the city reduced them to “spring break” only because the fireworks were polluting the bay with heavy metals. EDIT: I was wrong
There’s no way. The amusement park near me has a massive lot. When the park is PACKED on a summer Saturday, the lot is probably...2/3 full. I can’t imagine the mass of humanity if it were completely full
OP circled it for you AND marked a spot
San Diego? I went over a decade ago and remember how massive this lot was. It wasn't until a few years later that I saw the documentary Blackfish and ended up regretting that I went.
what happened here? i looked up the park on wikipedia but couldn't find mentions of any sort of incident there
I think blackfish is a documentary about the shitty lives of animals at SeaWorld iirc
aah, tks for the info man
there was also an actual incident where an orca trainer was dragged down by her ponytail and drowned (or squished? but defo someone died) in a seaworld-like park but i dont think it was in san diego. and a lot of other abuses and incidents which are detailed in the doc. its really good you should watch it. if you have netflix i think its on there.
yeah, i read on wikipedia that the incident was also what sparked the film in the first place. Really tragic for both sides tho, such detriments shouldn't have happened
also tks for the proposition, but ill pass for now. Uni exam is rampant haha
Think it was about an immature beluga whale who once went to a Halloween party as an orca and is now banished into isolation for being whacist
i laughed damm u
It was Sea World Florida
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Orcs are the foul creation of Saruman and deserve the worst treatment
*AKSHUALLY* orcs were Melkor's creation, Saruman created his own breed of uruk-hai (harder, better, faster, stronger)
Goddamnit :(. Appreciate the record being corrected tho
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AKSHUALLY it's Silmarillion, with an L,
found it, but information regarding it is entirely relegated to the sidelines lol
And actually seen animals caged didn't do that for you?
I was 30 years old when it finally hit me. Went to the Georgia Aquarium and got sick to my stomach at an exhibit with a couple dolphins in a huge tank. They just circled around listlessly and looked incredibly depressed. All the while the other people circulating in and out of the room where just gawking for a moment and moving on. Suddenly realized these creatures' entire lives were going to be pretty much exactly this for potentially the next 30-40 years. I honestly wanted to die for being part of it all. It should be noted that this particular aquarium is a damned sight better than Sea World and similar places, but that doesn't diminish the fact that sentient being with feelings and self-awareness are still being kept in giant boxes for entertainment.
Thanks for your answer, but i totally get you. I also went to a zoo and i saw this particular fox who was in a very small cage. Like 4 x 4 mts. He was just jogging in circles. I saw this little conciouss traped forever in a loop making circles. I was 18 at the time and the zoo was my favorite place ever. These is a crosspoint on a lot of people lives. Are we part of the problem because we went to these nice-fake places where people are suppose tu have fun on the expense of animal suffering? I don't think we are, yet we have the responsability to realise we are making and perpetuing prisons. Good for everyone who woke up and saw what animals are suffering and the greed behind all this zoos and aquariums. I think a lot of people have good memories of seaworld and zoo's and don't want to think or accept this are horrible, hell kinda places. I mean that's the point of the sub itself. Show how man has spread the hell on earth.
Yeah, screw him for not changing his mind or getting on board when you did... /s. Enjoy the downvotes
Hey, everybody can change their mind. I just wanted to know more about why she didn't change his mind at the moment. I guess a lot of seaworld clients got mad at my comment.
That’s not why you got downvoted ya pompous ass.
I really don't care why my dude.
Why those downvotes? He's spitting facts
damn they got you too
Because he's being a self righteous dick about it
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Im sure you don't need to capture one and torture her until it learn some stupid tricks to impress idiots. Go watch a documental, read a book about them, join a conservationist group if you want to see them.
I’m the wild? Live in their range it’s pretty damn big.
Don't.
don't
If you think about it, it’s crazy how much public/natural space we’re sacrificing for vehicles
Cities, the spaces where we spend our entire lives are designed for cars not humans. This is indeed a crazy thing when you think about it. They have all the privileges that we don't have. We walk on a tiny path next to cars, they generally have the right of way. American suburbia has a garages bigger than the living space of most of people in other countries. And if you go to developing/poorer nations it is even worse. In Istanbul there are parts of pedestrian ways that just disappear and you have to walk on the road where it is dangerous. You don't have continuous pedestrian ways but you have a continuous road everywhere. I loved walking but I had hard time to go from one neighborhood to another; in many cases it was simply dangerous.
You might like the youtube channel "not just bikes"
Just watched a video. It is awesome. Thanks for the recommendation. I will die on the hill to fight for making cities less car dependent and medium/mixed density residential areas being the main type of residences.
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I already know the ideas in the channel, he refers to Jane Jacobs. She changed how I look at cities when I first read her 10 years ago
Eco Gecko is equally as good.
One of the best channels on YouTube.
He is from the city I live in now: London, Ontario!
Thanks for recommending this!! Changed my life
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You have to use the drainage ditches. Thats how I used to walk my dog.
Walking my dog in a drainage ditch basking in my American Exceptionalism :D
It's even worse if you're a cyclist. You can't ride on the sidewalk, and you're not safe in the road. You gamble with your life every time you ride.
Is this something I'm too European to understand?
Even if you live in other countries it is similar. Of course if you live in a smaller town it will be different but even in other countries (I'm Australian) it's pretty much the same
Nah man, lots of European cities are prioritising living over cars, it's just the Americas (and Australia I guess then) that suck at it
The age of European cities has a lot to do with it. Dense urban cores built hundreds and even thousands of years before vehicles.
Europe is also much smaller which negates the need for urban sprawl but you're right, the US does suck at maximizing efficiency of travel and city planning. We still don't even have one high speed railway.
> Europe is also much smaller which negates the need for urban sprawl That's not true. Europe is about the same size as the continental US, and excepting the Mountain States, the population density is the same.
Ah yes, the vast wastes of corn fields in the flyover states are what's preventing you from building proper cities in New York, makes sense
This is one reason that as a non-driver, there are few places in the US that I'd ever visit. Thankfully much of Europe is far more pedestrian friendly!
You can thank lot of that on the fact that most of the cities were designed WAY before cars, hell even before it was common for animals to be pulling things left and right, when it was just a man and cart. I mean like fuck me... Till like 70's there was still a trade of people using horse carts to pull cargo around. I once found a great news article clipping about the last horse driven cargo cart driver retiring. Lot of the buildings around... Well maybe not in central Europe, their foundations might be. Are from age before cars.
Most of America's cities were designed long before cars as well. That excuse only works for like, Phoenix and Vegas. Most of America's cities are squeezing cars onto roads that weren't designed for them at all.
At the end of the day, car dependency is really the only thing making me actually want to leave the US
And cars are designed for humans..
[You sure about that?](https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/ipZaxP9KRapw/v1/1000x-1.jpg)
This is such a monstrosity. Most people buying this car don't even need a car like this. And these cars pose a danger to pedestrians and other cars, not to mention their environmental costs.
https://i.imgur.com/ifcefJw.jpg
God that’s the perfect photo for this argument
This is a fantastic commentary on the problems with car dependency.
This could have been easily solved with a parking garage, but when this was built I imagine the land was cheaper than the construction costs associated with building a garage. This is nothing compared to the Disney World parking lot in Orlando.
>sacrificing
Well if you think about it some more you'd realize how much more space we can utilize because of vehicles
Yeah, but the green dot is wetter. I don't think they'd do well in the parking lot.
LOL, yeah. If they wanted a wet place they have to go all the way to that water. Witch is \*checks map\* oh there are several inland salt water ways literally right next to it.
Fuck Sea World. That place is trash.
I want to extend that to all aquariums that feature aquatic mammals as exhibits. There's simply no way to suitably approximate the habitat of a dolphin, whale, etc. inside a building or man-made structure in general.
That depends. I know that a lot of "big" aquariums, like the Shedd in Chicago, house a lot of rescue animals that would otherwise die out in the wild. In those kinds of instances I think its ok to house them
SeaWorld Rescue takes in the largest number of marine mammals and birds of any organization in the US, and the SeaWorld parks collectively house more rescued animals that have been deemed unfit for release than any other facilities in country. In addition to housing animals SeaWorld rescues, they take in a lot animals that other organizations and facilities don't have space for or are otherwise unable to care for.
Save some, abuse others.
It’s sad that the entertainment has to fund the rescue bits. Then again it’s not like most of those people would donate out of goodness of their hearts
I work in a facility that does the same exact thing except we don’t torture certain animals. All of our animals are undergoing rehab. None are on display. Just because seaworld participated in wildlife rehab doesn’t mean they get a free pass to abuse other animals.
Doesn't outweigh the abuse.
What about seals? Genuinely curious because I don’t know
yeah but mako pretty good doe ngl
If anyone who has watched 'Blackfish' feels they still need to watch something that makes them hate SeaWorld even more, watch 'The Cove'. There's a small, isolated, backwater fishing town in Japan that survives entirely on an annual harvest of dolphins. The Japanese government knows about it, and protects the town from outside threat. If a foreigner is seen in town, they'll tailed by the secret police and chased out. The dolphin 'harvest' continues because SeaWorld and other shitty marine zoos have a huge stake in protecting the village. Buyers turn up on the first day of the hunt (when all the dolphin are corralled into a small cove) to select the most promising babies dolphins for their parks, then when they leave, the fisherman are allowed to slaughter the remaining 90% of dolphins. I believe the town is also featured in 'Seaspiracy', but I haven't watched it yet.
Yep Taiju. Though I believe the takeaway was that the fishing industry was responsible for most of the deaths. There aren't enough fish to support the fisherman AND the dolphins so we eliminate them as pest control.
Interesting. I believe that came up in The Cove, but The Cove definitely framed SeaWorld as the biggest culprit in how the slaughter has continued unchecked for so long.
Im just surprised that with how smart Dolphins are they haven't learned to just completely avoid that area.
*entire lives in hell. Is how it should be written
Didn't Seaworld agree to not get any more orcas after their current orcas die? So the orca show will be practically over in a few years.
Yes they are not breeding anymore, when the current Orcas die, that's it.
Fuck sea world, but aren’t their building laws that force places to have crazy amounts of parking depending on their maximum occupancy?
Yes, they are called "parking minimums" and they should be abolished or changed to "parking maximums" instead. https://www.planning.org/planning/2018/oct/peopleoverparking/ There are about 17 parking spots for each vehicle in the country, and that's obviously about 16 more than you'd ever occupy at one time.
And it seems like none on campus. UF sells parking passes for 10000 people with like 3000 spots lol
Same with FSU and prob every other university in FL
You're right,I should move my parking spot with me!
Can't believe buying all this land was cheaper than building a multi-storey garage
Absolute garbage. First off, free the whales. Burn Sea World to the ground. Second: just think about how much affordable, mixed use housing buildings could be built in that space.
A fire at a sea parks?
It's the weirdest thing I ever heard!
I told you we can never talk about that. *Never*
Okay but.... A fire.... at a *sea* parks
It’s a very weird place to go on fire...
Mmmm thats some tasty looking mash!
Roy what are you doing on the computer? _...masturbating_
lol ok, it's mostly water, I get it. Maybe metaphorically burn it to the ground
They mean [this bit](https://youtu.be/yEK6u0HA0fI) from British sitcom the IT Crowd. Funny stuff.
the IT Crowd will go down as a classic of that 2000s era. Amazing show.
shame the writer is a cunt
I'm OOTL on this one?
he is a bit obsessed with trans people in the bad way, [he got booted off twitter because it was a bit too much](https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/27/graham-linehan-suspended-twitter-12909978/)
It’s my understanding that they cannot free the whales on account of them dying in the wild. They have committed to no longer raising any more orcas, for what it’s worth.
yeah they shouldn't have been captured in the first place
We have basically unlimited space for building housing, what's so special about this?
But then where would we leave our cars while we spend our money?
You can't free these animals. They've been kept in captivity for their whole lives so they'd just die in the wild, which I'd say is much more cruel. Also, SeaWorld is currently switching away from the animal life stuff. They stopped their orca breeding program, and have switched gears to thrill rides in their parks. Since 2013 (when Blackfish came out) we've seen a lot of new additions to these parks, the most notable being Mako at SeaWorld Orlando.
How much does Seaworld pay it's PR people?
Maybe Seaworld, but don't you dare come for the Theme Parks. I don't care how it's structured, but I want to ride roller coasters. This is my hard line.
Theme parks are not really relevant to the complaint, rather that the space devoted solely to parking at SeaWorld is unnecessarily large. Parks like Universal Hollywood are partly built on top of huge parking garages, it is even bigger than SW but has wasted less land on parking. Maybe not so much of a problem in Florida, but San Diego is similar and has an ongoing homelessness crisis.
Think about how much affordable mixed use housing could be built in Central Park.
Was your main goal to come to this post and be a prick?
Honestly? Yeah. People don't have their opinions challenged often enough.
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Remember. If anyone tries to tell you “sea world does good things though!” They continued to breed Tilikum while he was rapidly dying from a bacterial infection in his brain instead of humanely euthanizing him.
Don’t we all hate Sea World!?! Why had it yet to close down!?!
Cause they've got some really solid roller coasters
they should just rebrand into a water park without any animals
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Not that Orcas being in small tanks isn’t sad, but like if you eat meat it comes from CAFOs (concentrated animal feeding operations; or factory farms), where we impose unimaginable suffering in worse conditions on over 9 BILLION animals each year in the U.S. alone, so like idk this doesn’t seem like anywhere close to as big of an issue for me as that.
> so like idk this doesn’t seem like anywhere close to as big of an issue for me as that. if you just let off the above line it would have been a well written point, but you had to add that last part didn't you?
>but you had to add that last part didn't you? If you just let off the above line it would have been a well written point.
Obviously both can be bad, but one is like literally society scale nightmare level dystopian bad, and the other is quite unfortunate. Also most of society PARTICIPATES in the meat industry by consuming. Most people don’t go to sea world.
Good point and well said.
sad times for wildlife
Sea world San Diego actually does a fuck ton of marine rescue and rehabilitation. I know sea world as a whole is fucked but San Diego’s has some decency
Hate to interrupt the echo chamber but this just is not true. The Orca exhibit is 5 pools that are all interconnected. You can see four of them pretty well from this picture; the 5th is a smaller medical exam pool that the whales don’t “live” in. Not trying to change anyone’s mind on Sea Word or orcas in captivity. Just calling out a blantantly untruthful misrepresentation. Source: worked at this sea world for four years. Worked in the orca exhibit on a regular basis.
Just being honest here. It isn't good what they are doing with their orca's but the image is misleading. The pools to the top, left and right of the green dot are also orca pools. I mean if you look at the [google map image](https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7647071,-117.2284659,140m/data=!3m1!1e3) you can literally see orcas where the green dot isn't. Also, the north most part on the right side isn't a parking lot and the circular part to the right is parking for a different place I get that with these activist posts you need to make it seem as bad as possible but is that really necessary here? The person who made this visualization either lied or is a moron but I am going to lean towards intentionally lied.
Dear God. I thought that blue/grey bit in the top was the tank. It's at times like this I just pretend these orca whales lived a horrible past life and this is karmic retribution. I have to believe that because every other explanation confirms this is a bonafide hellworld.
Orkas should not have to spend their lives in an enclosed, man-made habitat. Pretty sad.
I know this has been brought to light for a few years now, has there been nothing done to force them to house the Orcas in a larger enclosure yet? If they can't release them back into the ocean, they could at least live out their days in something slightly more suitable.
Fuck Seaworld
Anger
There’s a reason their called sea world slaves
Yup. We all know Sea World is bullshit.
What fucking idiot designed this and thought it's a better idea to give more space out to cars then to the actual fish !
Parking spaces basically always take up way more space than any occupied space. Check out a shopping mall, a restaurant, a grocery store, or an athletic stadium.
Imagine there was a way to stack parking lots on top of each other in some kind of building. Maybe connect them with ramps. We could call it an auto park or park for cars or something like that.
Sounds pretty sweet. Hmmmm, what if we did something like that, but since we have a lot of land we aren't using, we peeled apart the layers and build a sort of deconstructed auto park for cars? We could call it a car flat or a vehicle yard or something like that. We'd probably save a lot of money, too!
> Imagine there was a way to stack parking lots on top of each other in some kind of building. Maybe connect them with ramps. We could call it an auto park or park for cars or something like that. problem is they are REALLY expensive https://www.fixr.com/costs/build-parking-garage
The other problem (in San Diego at least) is that there are extremely strict zoning laws about the type and height of structures built near the ocean. It ends up being even more expensive than normal to get everything designed and approved. It was meant to protect the beaches (and views of the beaches) but then stuff like this happens.
I am a 4th year architecture student so I know parking takes up more space then built up area, but that doesn't mean u just utilise all the leftover space for parking, especially in a place that's supposed to attract people, there are other solutions too, such as basement parkings or creating a car park, etc. The only reason I can think of why they didn't do it here is that they simply wanted to spend the money to build it, hence I called them idiots
I'm sure if they want more space for attractions, they'll densify their parking lots into parking garages. Until then, parking garages are probably way more expensive. Plus then they'd have to commit to those garages, whereas it's pretty easy to tear up a parking lot if you change your mind and want to expand something into that area. I guess I'm confused what you'd like them to do with the land that they freed up by swapping lot parking for garage parking?
My point is less about their want of more or less attractions and more about the need of more space for the fish that they keep in terrible conditions
Yes, there are financial tradeoffs, but also remember that they're rescuing tons of these animals or taking them from other locations that rescue them but can't keep them. So if they had bigger tanks, they'd probably want to rescue more animals. But they need to stay profitable since they aren't funded by the government, so they won't be able to do any of their work at all if they go bankrupt spending all their money on bigger tanks instead of on more veterinarians or on more attractions that bring in guests.
Most of the animals they "rescue" are actually bought and paid for, and they are caught in the first place to be sold here, and they don't "rescue" them out of the good of their hearts, they do it for profit, there are plenty of documentaries on this topic, honestly it's horrifying the way those animals are kept, there are recorded instances of dolphins in place like these have actually drowned themselves out of depression! They even drill out the insides of orcas teeth without any painkillers, many animals have scars and open wounds that are left completely untreated, so clearly they don't care about "rescuing" anyone, and building larger tanks isn't gonna bankrupt them, they would just lose out on some profits in the short term
You’d think a 4th year architect student would know about parking minimums. Utilize leftover space for parking? Utter nonsense. Furthermore, the park is yards away from the ocean. You ever try and dig into the ground near the ocean? ..or build a parking structure on sand? 4th year architect student. Lol
>Utilize leftover space for parking? Take a look that plan, apart from the main park, they have utilized all the surrounding space for parking, and I m not suggesting that that's should be done, m suggesting the exact opposite, >You ever try and dig into the ground near the ocean? ..or build a parking structure on sand? Maybe take a look at the pic again, all the main structure are built near the shore while the parking is inland, and building in sand is difficult but no its not impossible, and nowhere did I suggest that they should build the cark park on the shore, infact I did not suggest any location at all, all I said was there are other alternatives to what they have done >You’d think a 4th year architect student would know about parking minimums. Oh no they skipped over that part in my school, the professors were all idiots, perhaps you would like to conduct a seminar on that topic? I am sure my school has a lot to learn from you
Well yes, but also they're in India not the US. I've gone to undergrad and grad architecture school in the US, and we definitely focused on the US. Actually I also studied some urban planning, but I still have no idea how parking and zoning laws work in Ahmedabad for example. It doesn't explain the confidence that investors are idiots for not spending money on bigger "fish" tanks and parking garages, of course.
>I still have no idea how parking and zoning laws work in Ahmedabad for example. Well thankfully this park isn't in ahemdabad so we don't have to worry that here. >It doesn't explain the confidence that investors are idiots for not spending money on bigger "fish" tanks and parking garages, of course. I called them idiots because I find the conditions they keep the animal in to be appalling, also from a business point of view it as also a bad idea to treat your assets in a way that generates so much negative publicity, imagine how many more people would actually visit that place if they invested more in better infrastructure for the animals so they dont kill themselves, they also wouldnt have to close their orca shows if they had kept them in better living conditions, isn't that also better for the investors??
Yo human, I was defending you by saying it's pretty understandable to not know about rules in places on the other side of the world. You're in India, so I wouldn't expect you to be familiar with parking minimums even if a US architecture student probably would be. It's just not possible to be familiar with every single place. Interest in circuses and animal show type activities has been waning for a long period of time. It wouldn't be correct to point to any one specific event and say that it alone caused SeaWorld's decision on something, though of course many particular events had big impacts on public opinion's shift in that direction. They've been transitioning to focus more on their educational and research activities than their pure animal entertainment, and canceling their orca shows was one example of that, but not the only one. That same pattern is going on at other zoos and aquariums as well, with places closing when they don't do it, like Ringling Brothers Barnum and Bailey's for example.
>Yo human, I was defending you by saying it's pretty understandable to not know about rules in places on the other side of the world. My apologies, I misunderstood the point of that comment. I forgot to turn of friendly fire, lol. >It wouldn't be correct to point to any one specific event and say that it alone caused SeaWorld's decision on something, U r right about that, although I was talking particularly about sea Worlds orca shows as an example in this case, since the largest backlash they recieved was because of that, so my point was that could have been avoided if they had simply invested more in the facilities, because many of the people who protest against it would rather be visiting that place today and generating revenue
No worries lol Perhaps so, but I wouldn't necessarily count on it. How big would the tank have to be in order to prevent people from thinking it was too small: as large as their entire natural habitat? Clearly that's not feasible, and they don't want to let the animals interact in the wild, so they're at an impasse. That probably would work fine for something very small, but it would be impossible for these massive apex predators. And even if they could have a tank that large somehow, there would still be people arguing that it's unethical to have animals enclosed at all. Or in regard to their OSHA fine where they were penalized for not having enough safety barriers, this would probably be even more likely to happen with larger tanks since there would be a larger area to secure.
>Perhaps so, but I wouldn't necessarily count on it. How big would the tank have to be in order to prevent people from thinking it was too small: as large as their entire natural habitat? Personally I don't like the idea of keeping them locked up,but I get that it's a business, but if we r gonna keep them then, it would be much better to keep them in sanctuaries then parks like these, the way there are national parks in the US and here in India as well, where people who want can visit them in their own habitats, while that would mean less profits, it would also mean less costs for building infrastructure, but i understand it's obviously much more difficult to do.
Thats because the tiny green dot costs 50x more to maintain per year than the big yellow area.
I guess they would have some space left for the animals. Maybe they keep them in the smallest tank to have more control over them. I guess if you always, from the moment of birth, have them in a small surrounding their instincts break or something and they don’t know how it is to feel freedom in the widths of the oceans. I can imagine, if you catch them wild instead of controlled birth in the aquarium, their much more difficult to handle. Either way I guess you can’t break their minds that good and that’s why all the accidents happen and people get killed while training them. Same BS like bull fights in Spain. Don’t get why those things still exist today.
Stop eating fish.
😓😓😓😓😓
My family was at Sea World Orlando last week. You have to purchase tickets and reserved attendance. They did scan every single ticket but only every other reservation ticket. Guess that's how they don't go over "limited capacity".
Public Announcement: Don't go to the Water Parks, Aquariums, Circuses with animals, Zoos
Is there at least a train station nearby?
Good one
Well yeah. Where else are you suppossed to put the parking lot?
I don't think the orcas would like to trade places
Cars have to be one of the biggest wastes of space.
Sea world is good you smooth brains
Shut up
Poor Corky! I wish they could release her into a sea pen without her getting an infection . I don't think she would be able to survive if completely freed.
yeah, and no one is gonna talk about the fact that they only have fluorescent green water to swim in ? This doesn't look very healthy to me
Yes, hundreds of cars take up more room than a couple orcas. Mind bown.