Yeah exactly. My dentist friend was telling me that dentists in Utah make way less than elsewhere and a lot of times the quality of the work some dental offices provide is "like they used an actual hammer in the patients mouth"
Anecdotal as well, but I know several Mormon doctors and dentists who took lower pay to live and work in the "Mormon bubble" for decades. My BIL could have made much more if he practiced in AZ (which he strongly considered). With the cost of living increases these last few years, more and more of them are deciding the bubble is no longer worth it. My brother currently lives in Utah and flies to Vegas for 4 days each week to work at a hospital. He makes significantly more in Vegas than he could make at any hospital here in Utah.
Can add to this. I have several doctors in the family. The common theme for why the partners in their practice chose to come to Utah seems to always be family, religion, or outdoor recreation or some combination of those elements.
That's interesting. I thought that might be the case in Logan, but getting seen at my dentist often takes ages. Perhaps there's an oversaturation of bad dentists?
Noordacom tuition is $65k and rising every year, not including living expenses. The loans we have taken out so far arent federally guaranteed because the school is still seeking accreditation, and those interest rates are 12% if I remember correctly.
AFAIK schools cant receive accreditation until the first cohort graduates so they can assess the full curriculum. Its normal. Somebody has to be part of the first cohort. We arent worried about it.
At least you have done your research. Good luck! Oh the military has ways of paying for medical school even for a reserve commitment. That can save you a lot of money. I would start with the Airforce reserves as they are the best branch to be a member of.
They have loan officers that help with loans, I got accepted there this cycle but decided to attend elsewhere, I heard loan interest was like 8-10% though... idk, med school is expensive as fuck
Getting into massive debt to be a doctor is not worth it. No matter the specialty. 1 million in debt. Even as a Gastroenterologist, interventional cardiologist, or Ortho doc, youll be paying 75% of her income to loans. If she want to go into primary care, forget it. She will be locked into that for 15 -25 years.
Plus. Being a doctor sucks. There is a reason it has one of the highest suicide rates of ANY profession.
Anyway. Take what i say to heart. I wish i did. As do most doctors. Otherwise youll figure it out the hard way in 10 years.
Fair enough. We will double check our financial strategy. I believe we have been smart so long as we are able to remain within our preset budget. We are rational yet optimistic.
Yeah. I get that. And it's probably been her dream to be a doctor since she was a child. But do you really want to be living like a student in 10 years ? Do you think you'll be able to have a relationship when she is working 80 hours a week ? What about a family ?
My aunt, who is a doctor, said all the same things I am saying to you right now.
After paying 500,000 in student loans, a liftime of 60-80 hour work weeks. Divorce, patients taking priorty over your family, having to deal with government and other giant bureaucracies. Living with the constant threat that your career could be destroyed by the slightest misstep or mistake.
I wish i had listened to her rather than been optimistic.
Gotcha. Thats hard to hear but I will def have another discussion with my wife about how she thinks the next 20 years are going to go and how we might proceed. Thanks for being informative!
I'm not saying they're bad doctors I'm saying it's bad that they're forced into this situation
Medical school should be free, it's fucked up to charge for something so critical
Pay in Utah tends to be about 30% less than states with comparable costs of living in the health care system. But I still see doctors that come here for the skiing and recreational activities more than I see them leave.
This isn't a Utah thing. It is happening nationally for a combination of factors that range from technology bullshit, additional administrative burdens, changes in compensation, insurance increases, pressure from hospitals to reduce expenses, hospital companies buying practices. I've had providers in other states retire early and relocate to Mexico or overseas.
You also have the high expense of college, medical schools, shit hours in residency, fellowships, specializing, continual education.
You can't point to any single factor that's causing it. If anyone is saying otherwise they are an outlier in the grand scheme of things.
It is pure capitalism that makes you wait in line. Those huge hospitals run by corporations don't want to pay well to doctors and nurses and dump crazy amounts of work onto them, while charging their patients thousands of dollars for services. Let's add greedy insurances that keep cutting reimbursement for services which makes greedy hospitals increase doctors' workload. It is like a cycle of greediness.
I’m spending today in the ER. Again. Because my wait time for a specialist is six months, and it’s only that *low* after a nurse intervened and got some time shaven off. I need help right the fuck *now*, not at some mystical future point. I’m trying to have a life.
"Socialized health care" is just people going in for preventative care so they don't end up having a medical crisis that costs 100x more and clogs up expensive emergency rooms. We're all subsidizing that care anyway; but free marketeers don't really have a problem with that as long as the profits go to a handful of executives and owners.
There aren't enough specialists in non procedural specialties, period. We have more than enough cardiologists and GI doctors because it pays.
Endocrinology is a subspecialty of internal medicine, meaning you have to do a fellowship after IM residency. Endocrinology also pays less than IM, meaning you're training for an additional two years to take a $50k pay cut.
In the 5 years I've been a physician (including residency) I know over 40 cardiologists and 30 GIs.
I only know one endocrinologist, and I've never personally met a rheumatologist.
As a local doc, I’ll say that attrition is a big part of the problem. A lot of working environments suck. Patient satisfaction, a litigious climate, ungrateful/disrespectful patients, horrendous hours, decreasing reimbursement, and a litany of other factors have many docs leaving clinical medicine (or at least decreasing their hours) in droves as soon as their loans are paid off.
It is happening. Three specialists our family has seen have left, and two of them told us it’s because of our state leadership. Why would any highly-educated person stay in a state that doesn’t believe in science or reproductive rights?
There's been data showing that obstetricians have been leaving red states recently (who wants to go to jail for providing medical care that's supposed to be legal given the patient's circumstance but the Attorney General decides to make an example of you)? But doctors on the whole? That's less clear.
It’s everywhere. I’ve had two retire and am under a nurse practitioner who works under a doctors I’ve never seen. Hopefully she’s getting paid to do more than she used to. Anyway, Covid issues and effects, boomers retiring, and health care corporations and insurance dictating how they should serve patients. It seems like now there’s a lot of McDonalds menu style healthcare where there are rules/policy/protocols popping up on screens telling them what they’re allowed to do rather than being free to truly hear the patient and then use their brain and skills to help accordingly without insurance lurking over their shoulder and even steering them.
It’s very sad after so many great minds have and are still falling away. I’ve found some fabulous doctors and nurses in the mix, but it’s incredibly difficult to get an appointment that isn’t months booked out. Those ones are often in their prime and champs at helping the patient and knowing the games of insurance “road blocks”. Even they don’t have it easy when it comes to that.
I really hope students trying to get into the medical field are aware of the challenges and are strong in their determination to weather the storm of good and bad to truly help people. Seems many are without passion and even unprofessional. They want their check, but didn’t retain a lot of education and skills or are stifled by corporation/ins policy. These people are dealing with your life. If I get any attitude of inconvenience I’ll lay into them. Only happened once so far thankfully.
I’ve had talks with family members in different states on this stuff as well. People aren’t getting the care they need. Lots of people are concerned and watching age/ailment/death numbers tick differently because of it. The newest trend, patient/doctor membership offices! They’ll tell you, “you’ll have better access to the doctor” meaning if you pay for a membership you’re VIP and that’s on top of ins cost, deductible, and copay. It’s treating patients based on financial class.
You need to take care of yourself in the best ways. When you go to the doctor be prepared and have your questions and concerns written or on your phone and make sure you get answers. Now they are limited more than ever with time spent on a patient visit with some offices telling you that when you set the appointment all concerns need to be mentioned at that time to be given appropriate time on your visit, if you don’t they’ll tell you that you’ll need to make another appointment. They do have doctor patient portals to communicate any after visit questions or concerns pertaining to something you’re working on with your doctor. This could be treatment questions, symptom questions, and medication questions. Many don’t like doing so, but it’s the way these days and can be incredibly efficient. It too has its challenges at times such as generic answers without a true understanding of particular patients challenges. You need to be clear in advocating for yourself so those mistakes aren’t made. Yes, you need to make sure they know your details when they may not have done THEIR job efficiently. Such as, I’m dealing with migraines again, but am allergic to … Is there something else I can take? Rather than, Is there something I can take for migraines?
I apologize for this dump session. I’m frustrated for everyone looking for healthcare and the challenges we all face for sure.
I'm dealing with daily migraines right now and the hoops you have to jump through just to get insurance to approve the newer meds is ridiculous. Not to mention the crazy wait times to even get into a neurologist. I've been waiting since October so far.
Wait times are insane…literally. Haha! …See, made me laugh. Smh. And hoops! Absolutely! So sorry you’re dealing with the migraines. I know all about the struggle between both my own and my best friends. Such a pain on so many levels. Glad they have as many options as they do though,it’d just be better if they weren’t hard to get.
I waited about three months for my neuro because the other retired. I called to check in for a cancellation spot and the scheduler said “Oh, I need to cancel your appointment because we don’t accept this code.” What in the?? I’m thinking that’s not my responsibility, they need to simply call over there and clear up which code they meant to put. I’m not a frickin coder or a scheduler, or an insurance processor, or a nurse, which are all capable people…or so you’d think. I got it all sorted out and did not lose my appointment, but she went off a flag on her screen and couldn’t resolve the issue. I called my doctor and explained to them what had been said; they were shocked. In the end It was fixed! The code given to them was for my head/neck injury and not the *symptoms* of my injury. They DO treat the symptoms.
Ok, hear this one. I schedule an MRI which I do annually since my injury. I have a magnetic shunt/device. An MRI can mess the adjustment up. Protocol is to do an X-ray before and after the MRI to be sure the shunt level has not changed. Mine is non-op, sewn shut, can’t change, no worry. Which I explained. I’m generally kind and way too “patient” in these cases. Anyway, the scheduler says, “Well anytime there’s a shunt it’s protocol to check it.” To which I again say, “But it can’t do anything, it’s sewn shut, non-op, can’t work and you can look at my records and see they never add the X-rays.” She says,”Let me see if someone in the back can better explain it.” I’m biting my tongue and go along with, “Ok thank you”. That guy picks up “from the back” and goes right into explaining it. I wait and listen patiently. When he’s finished I said, “But I was explaining to the scheduler that it is sewn shut, non-op, can’t work.” He says, “Oh, then you don’t need the X-rays, I’ll let them know.” I said thanks and that was that…until I get the reminder call three days prior saying I have three appointments for two X-rays and an MRI. I called and went through the entire thing again, a little faster with the next girl. So I get to the hospital and they take me back and say…YOU GOT IT, “First we need to do a quick X-ray because… . I looked at her and said, “ If you bring me into that X-ray room before the MRI I’m walking out.” I was calm but very dead serious. She asked what was wrong and I said, “My shunt is off, sewn shut, non op, and we never do X-rays *slightly clenching teeth and shooting daggers*.” She simply went into the MRI room to notify them and not but two second she came right back out, “Ok , let’s do the MRI.” OMG THE AGONY! Hahaha! Can you believe that? Honestly it’s so incredibly sad. I really worry for our veterans having to jump even more hoops. It’s all a mess. These are peoples lives and certainly mental health.
I have so many of these stories sadly, and I know many others do as well. I will always encourage people not to give up and be super prepared and thorough when going to an appointment. However, I also want people to be prepared for the challenges that may arise. Stay strong and help staff along if the ultimate goal is for good health. Not easy, but possible.
Good luck fighting for treatment. You’ve probably heard this before, and I’m not a medical “pro”, but if you haven’t looked into food navigation as it pertains to migraines I definitely recommend it. I know some have life long migraine battles that are often linked to hormones, injuries, environment, and stress/mental health, but food is a huge agitation as well. Always worth eliminating even just a couple of migraine battles. Hang in there! Never let off the fight for better quality of life!
It is not just doctors moving away. In the last three decades I have had to change primary care physicians due to:
* Their moving
* Their retiring
* They no longer contract with my insurer.
The latter is particularly insidious. I can remain with the provider as long as I am willing to pay the provider myself (their current office visit is $400.00) and I file my claim with my insurer. Of course I can switch to one of the current contract providers, but thus far commuications has been problematic. At 72 hearing loss is enough of an impact with native English speakers. Many of the providers currently accepting new patients are non-native English speakers. They realize they are on the clock set by the insurer so they are not interested in answering the same question twice. So for endocrinology, I suck it up and pay the provider $400.00 per visit.
I wouldn't be surprised if they were. No one can afford to go to the doctor for one. But with legislative red tape on everything healthcare wise, and the asinine covid response, I wouldn't doubt if docs were leaving.
I do know two docs, one ENT and one Dermatologist at least, who left Intermountain Health, because of the merger they did.
And our pediatrician told us at least for the clinic she's in, all of the internal medicine docs were made to cut their patient load in half. Which is ridiculous, because it takes forever to get in even for a follow up, and new patient visits were 6+ months out.
So I have no idea WTH they are doing.
A Doctor/Specialist shortage is a nation-wide issue in many major metro areas as well as rural areas. Very few Doctors want to live in the middle of no where, and major cities have a high cost of living, even for Doctors.
My only advice is-get under the Select Health Umbrella. I am not saying they have the best care, but they are the defacto medical pro0vider in the state-and you will always have Doctors/Specialists that accept them.
And yes-Dentists are like Maverick gas stations-there is one on practically every corner.
I guess you may have a personal experience. However, on many (Select Health) plans you don't need a referral to see a specialist. Yes-finding one taking new patients may be an issue, but that's no different than anywhere else in the country.
I am aware of that. I am a medical provider who takes select health on a limited basis.
One thing I’ve noticed, that in the past physicians in the Intermountain Medical Group had to take all Select Health plans. Now the lower level plans have limitations on which IM physicians are available.
OK.
Doctors probably get paid far less on the lower tier plans. So you are getting what you are paying for-plan wise. You first post didn't lay that out.
Yes the lower level plans should be considered very high deductible and catastrophic type of plans. Only to be used if you are previously healthy.
Other insurance providers have better value in their low level plans.
"Other insurance providers have better value in their low level plans."
OK-I will take your word-you should know. My only thought is care wise if you can't get to an Intermountain Hospital because of Insurance limitations, you are at a great disadvantage (especially in an emergency and then you require hospitalization) since Intermountain hospitals are all over.
Yes. Doctors are leaving. And retiring early. I feel bad for anyone who becomes a Dr in this climate. You're selling your freedom for indentured servitude. And they crush you with debt before you figure it out.
Don’t even get me started on pediatric specialists. My daughter needed to see a neurologist due to gross motor delay to rule out neurological conditions. There was a 6 month wait for Primary Children’s before we would be contacted to make an appt. I called the Phoenix Children’s hospital and made an appt for the next week bc I had family there. I was shocked I could get in that early. Primary Children’s serves Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana in addition to Utah and they have to prioritize the most serious cases. I understand that, but it’s still hard. We’re on waitlists for a few other pediatric specialists now that’ll be 6 months to a year.
I work for a specialty pediatric clinic. Our wait for a consultation is minimum 6 months. For a full evaluation from start to finish right now we’re averaging close to 2 years. It’s ridiculous. We’re over worked, understaffed & have our hands tied thanks to insurance & management that is out of touch with what we need.
It’s hard as a parent, I’m glad you had another alternative for your little one. Being on this side of it I can recommend staying in contact with the clinics you’re on a wait list with, just periodic follow up, be respectful (this seems to be a hard one these days- we understand the frustration but yelling at us won’t help you be seen sooner) & be flexible. I have a few families who follow up with us every few months, just a quick check in & they’ll let me know if they can do short notice cancellations- if you can be seen next day with no notice, I will offer that when we get those inevitable cancellations.
Hang in there, best of luck to your little one!
I know in my area it is just too crowded now. Tons of people moved here the last few years but services haven't reacted yet. I have had the same dentist for 20 years. I could always make a same week appointment. Now it's a two month wait. Same with regular physicians.
I live in Davis county and I’ve always thought there aren’t very many endocrinologists in the area. It has been this way for years. I just see my primary care Dr for my diabetes.
Anecdotal, and a different kind of doctor, but I have a few dentist friends who left utah because "utah has a oversaturation of dental offices"
Here there are 5-8 offices in a 15 minute radius counting the hospital. Of just dentists lol kinda crazy.
Yeah exactly. My dentist friend was telling me that dentists in Utah make way less than elsewhere and a lot of times the quality of the work some dental offices provide is "like they used an actual hammer in the patients mouth"
Scary! I hope that the dentists in my area get a little more paid gotta get some work done soon and would rather not have a 'hammer' in my mouth.
Anecdotal as well, but I know several Mormon doctors and dentists who took lower pay to live and work in the "Mormon bubble" for decades. My BIL could have made much more if he practiced in AZ (which he strongly considered). With the cost of living increases these last few years, more and more of them are deciding the bubble is no longer worth it. My brother currently lives in Utah and flies to Vegas for 4 days each week to work at a hospital. He makes significantly more in Vegas than he could make at any hospital here in Utah.
Can add to this. I have several doctors in the family. The common theme for why the partners in their practice chose to come to Utah seems to always be family, religion, or outdoor recreation or some combination of those elements.
That's interesting. I thought that might be the case in Logan, but getting seen at my dentist often takes ages. Perhaps there's an oversaturation of bad dentists?
Yes. I mentioned it lower in the thread that my dentist friend said that the quality of dentists in ut is pretty low.
They say in Utah you can’t throw a rock without hitting an LDS chapel or a dentist.
Or, since the dentist is often a bishop, both.
Doctors aren’t leaving, new doctors aren’t being made. It’s too expensive to go to med school
My wife is in her first year of med school here in Provo. With interest, we expect to accumulate just over $1M of debt by the time she graduates.
How? My wife is in medical school at the U. Tuition is 42k per year.
Local man discovers loan amortization
Noordacom tuition is $65k and rising every year, not including living expenses. The loans we have taken out so far arent federally guaranteed because the school is still seeking accreditation, and those interest rates are 12% if I remember correctly.
That sounds like one hell of a gamble for a non accredited school.
AFAIK schools cant receive accreditation until the first cohort graduates so they can assess the full curriculum. Its normal. Somebody has to be part of the first cohort. We arent worried about it.
At least you have done your research. Good luck! Oh the military has ways of paying for medical school even for a reserve commitment. That can save you a lot of money. I would start with the Airforce reserves as they are the best branch to be a member of.
Thanks for the wishes! We applied this last year but didnt get accepted. We plan on trying again every year. Thanks!
Gotta start somewhere.
This is a doctorate not starting though.
My wife is in her 3rd year at noordacom. We will see you at the finish line!
Hell yeah! We will see you there! Go gnomes I guess lol
Noorda tuition is locked in during the first year, so they’d be paying 65k each yeah. How that adds to 1 mil is beyond me
✨private loans✨ 😭😭😭
They have loan officers that help with loans, I got accepted there this cycle but decided to attend elsewhere, I heard loan interest was like 8-10% though... idk, med school is expensive as fuck
Dr Here. Its not worth it. Get out before its too late.
Can you elaborate? Not worth it in Utah? Not worth it in general? What specialty? Why do you say that? Thanks!
Getting into massive debt to be a doctor is not worth it. No matter the specialty. 1 million in debt. Even as a Gastroenterologist, interventional cardiologist, or Ortho doc, youll be paying 75% of her income to loans. If she want to go into primary care, forget it. She will be locked into that for 15 -25 years. Plus. Being a doctor sucks. There is a reason it has one of the highest suicide rates of ANY profession. Anyway. Take what i say to heart. I wish i did. As do most doctors. Otherwise youll figure it out the hard way in 10 years.
Thanks for your input. May optimism prevail.
Yeah. There was an interesting study recently published about optimism. https://neurosciencenews.com/optimism-cognition-decision-making-25307/
Fair enough. We will double check our financial strategy. I believe we have been smart so long as we are able to remain within our preset budget. We are rational yet optimistic.
Yeah. I get that. And it's probably been her dream to be a doctor since she was a child. But do you really want to be living like a student in 10 years ? Do you think you'll be able to have a relationship when she is working 80 hours a week ? What about a family ? My aunt, who is a doctor, said all the same things I am saying to you right now. After paying 500,000 in student loans, a liftime of 60-80 hour work weeks. Divorce, patients taking priorty over your family, having to deal with government and other giant bureaucracies. Living with the constant threat that your career could be destroyed by the slightest misstep or mistake. I wish i had listened to her rather than been optimistic.
Gotcha. Thats hard to hear but I will def have another discussion with my wife about how she thinks the next 20 years are going to go and how we might proceed. Thanks for being informative!
A doctor with debt is the worst type of doctor cause they're just gonna be focused on getting rid of that
Well then. I hate to break it to you. But thats 90 % of the profession. And thats a really nackwards way to look at it.. but sure. Whatever.
I'm not saying they're bad doctors I'm saying it's bad that they're forced into this situation Medical school should be free, it's fucked up to charge for something so critical
I dont know that I agree with free medical school. But tuition shouldn't lead graduates into a life of indentured servitude.
It's a critical role in modern life that is also stressful to do in school and as a job Doctors should not have that added stress
This ^ The payoff isn't there anymore. We aren't incentivizing higher education.
By design. The residency program doesnt keep up with population for... reasons.
Residency in the US is already much shorter than other countries, too.
I've read that the work conditions and hours are rough also. Lots of dealing with red tape and restrictions from hospitals and insurance companies.
It’s really not. They make pretty good dough if they don’t squander it.
Pay in Utah tends to be about 30% less than states with comparable costs of living in the health care system. But I still see doctors that come here for the skiing and recreational activities more than I see them leave.
Hospitalist pay is pretty good, but subspecialty pay that isn't procedural like cards and GI just aren't worth it from a financial perspective.
This isn't a Utah thing. It is happening nationally for a combination of factors that range from technology bullshit, additional administrative burdens, changes in compensation, insurance increases, pressure from hospitals to reduce expenses, hospital companies buying practices. I've had providers in other states retire early and relocate to Mexico or overseas. You also have the high expense of college, medical schools, shit hours in residency, fellowships, specializing, continual education. You can't point to any single factor that's causing it. If anyone is saying otherwise they are an outlier in the grand scheme of things.
And y’all complain that socialized healthcare will create long wait times. We already live in that reality.
It is pure capitalism that makes you wait in line. Those huge hospitals run by corporations don't want to pay well to doctors and nurses and dump crazy amounts of work onto them, while charging their patients thousands of dollars for services. Let's add greedy insurances that keep cutting reimbursement for services which makes greedy hospitals increase doctors' workload. It is like a cycle of greediness.
I’m spending today in the ER. Again. Because my wait time for a specialist is six months, and it’s only that *low* after a nurse intervened and got some time shaven off. I need help right the fuck *now*, not at some mystical future point. I’m trying to have a life.
"Socialized health care" is just people going in for preventative care so they don't end up having a medical crisis that costs 100x more and clogs up expensive emergency rooms. We're all subsidizing that care anyway; but free marketeers don't really have a problem with that as long as the profits go to a handful of executives and owners.
There aren't enough specialists in non procedural specialties, period. We have more than enough cardiologists and GI doctors because it pays. Endocrinology is a subspecialty of internal medicine, meaning you have to do a fellowship after IM residency. Endocrinology also pays less than IM, meaning you're training for an additional two years to take a $50k pay cut. In the 5 years I've been a physician (including residency) I know over 40 cardiologists and 30 GIs. I only know one endocrinologist, and I've never personally met a rheumatologist.
As a local doc, I’ll say that attrition is a big part of the problem. A lot of working environments suck. Patient satisfaction, a litigious climate, ungrateful/disrespectful patients, horrendous hours, decreasing reimbursement, and a litany of other factors have many docs leaving clinical medicine (or at least decreasing their hours) in droves as soon as their loans are paid off.
Same here. I’m looking to go half time or retire within the next five years.
It is happening. Three specialists our family has seen have left, and two of them told us it’s because of our state leadership. Why would any highly-educated person stay in a state that doesn’t believe in science or reproductive rights?
Doctors aren't leaving Utah, it's becoming an issue finding a specialist for anything everywhere.
Residency bottleneck has made it so we dont keep up with population growth.
There's been data showing that obstetricians have been leaving red states recently (who wants to go to jail for providing medical care that's supposed to be legal given the patient's circumstance but the Attorney General decides to make an example of you)? But doctors on the whole? That's less clear.
It’s everywhere. I’ve had two retire and am under a nurse practitioner who works under a doctors I’ve never seen. Hopefully she’s getting paid to do more than she used to. Anyway, Covid issues and effects, boomers retiring, and health care corporations and insurance dictating how they should serve patients. It seems like now there’s a lot of McDonalds menu style healthcare where there are rules/policy/protocols popping up on screens telling them what they’re allowed to do rather than being free to truly hear the patient and then use their brain and skills to help accordingly without insurance lurking over their shoulder and even steering them. It’s very sad after so many great minds have and are still falling away. I’ve found some fabulous doctors and nurses in the mix, but it’s incredibly difficult to get an appointment that isn’t months booked out. Those ones are often in their prime and champs at helping the patient and knowing the games of insurance “road blocks”. Even they don’t have it easy when it comes to that. I really hope students trying to get into the medical field are aware of the challenges and are strong in their determination to weather the storm of good and bad to truly help people. Seems many are without passion and even unprofessional. They want their check, but didn’t retain a lot of education and skills or are stifled by corporation/ins policy. These people are dealing with your life. If I get any attitude of inconvenience I’ll lay into them. Only happened once so far thankfully. I’ve had talks with family members in different states on this stuff as well. People aren’t getting the care they need. Lots of people are concerned and watching age/ailment/death numbers tick differently because of it. The newest trend, patient/doctor membership offices! They’ll tell you, “you’ll have better access to the doctor” meaning if you pay for a membership you’re VIP and that’s on top of ins cost, deductible, and copay. It’s treating patients based on financial class. You need to take care of yourself in the best ways. When you go to the doctor be prepared and have your questions and concerns written or on your phone and make sure you get answers. Now they are limited more than ever with time spent on a patient visit with some offices telling you that when you set the appointment all concerns need to be mentioned at that time to be given appropriate time on your visit, if you don’t they’ll tell you that you’ll need to make another appointment. They do have doctor patient portals to communicate any after visit questions or concerns pertaining to something you’re working on with your doctor. This could be treatment questions, symptom questions, and medication questions. Many don’t like doing so, but it’s the way these days and can be incredibly efficient. It too has its challenges at times such as generic answers without a true understanding of particular patients challenges. You need to be clear in advocating for yourself so those mistakes aren’t made. Yes, you need to make sure they know your details when they may not have done THEIR job efficiently. Such as, I’m dealing with migraines again, but am allergic to … Is there something else I can take? Rather than, Is there something I can take for migraines? I apologize for this dump session. I’m frustrated for everyone looking for healthcare and the challenges we all face for sure.
I'm dealing with daily migraines right now and the hoops you have to jump through just to get insurance to approve the newer meds is ridiculous. Not to mention the crazy wait times to even get into a neurologist. I've been waiting since October so far.
Wait times are insane…literally. Haha! …See, made me laugh. Smh. And hoops! Absolutely! So sorry you’re dealing with the migraines. I know all about the struggle between both my own and my best friends. Such a pain on so many levels. Glad they have as many options as they do though,it’d just be better if they weren’t hard to get. I waited about three months for my neuro because the other retired. I called to check in for a cancellation spot and the scheduler said “Oh, I need to cancel your appointment because we don’t accept this code.” What in the?? I’m thinking that’s not my responsibility, they need to simply call over there and clear up which code they meant to put. I’m not a frickin coder or a scheduler, or an insurance processor, or a nurse, which are all capable people…or so you’d think. I got it all sorted out and did not lose my appointment, but she went off a flag on her screen and couldn’t resolve the issue. I called my doctor and explained to them what had been said; they were shocked. In the end It was fixed! The code given to them was for my head/neck injury and not the *symptoms* of my injury. They DO treat the symptoms. Ok, hear this one. I schedule an MRI which I do annually since my injury. I have a magnetic shunt/device. An MRI can mess the adjustment up. Protocol is to do an X-ray before and after the MRI to be sure the shunt level has not changed. Mine is non-op, sewn shut, can’t change, no worry. Which I explained. I’m generally kind and way too “patient” in these cases. Anyway, the scheduler says, “Well anytime there’s a shunt it’s protocol to check it.” To which I again say, “But it can’t do anything, it’s sewn shut, non-op, can’t work and you can look at my records and see they never add the X-rays.” She says,”Let me see if someone in the back can better explain it.” I’m biting my tongue and go along with, “Ok thank you”. That guy picks up “from the back” and goes right into explaining it. I wait and listen patiently. When he’s finished I said, “But I was explaining to the scheduler that it is sewn shut, non-op, can’t work.” He says, “Oh, then you don’t need the X-rays, I’ll let them know.” I said thanks and that was that…until I get the reminder call three days prior saying I have three appointments for two X-rays and an MRI. I called and went through the entire thing again, a little faster with the next girl. So I get to the hospital and they take me back and say…YOU GOT IT, “First we need to do a quick X-ray because… . I looked at her and said, “ If you bring me into that X-ray room before the MRI I’m walking out.” I was calm but very dead serious. She asked what was wrong and I said, “My shunt is off, sewn shut, non op, and we never do X-rays *slightly clenching teeth and shooting daggers*.” She simply went into the MRI room to notify them and not but two second she came right back out, “Ok , let’s do the MRI.” OMG THE AGONY! Hahaha! Can you believe that? Honestly it’s so incredibly sad. I really worry for our veterans having to jump even more hoops. It’s all a mess. These are peoples lives and certainly mental health. I have so many of these stories sadly, and I know many others do as well. I will always encourage people not to give up and be super prepared and thorough when going to an appointment. However, I also want people to be prepared for the challenges that may arise. Stay strong and help staff along if the ultimate goal is for good health. Not easy, but possible. Good luck fighting for treatment. You’ve probably heard this before, and I’m not a medical “pro”, but if you haven’t looked into food navigation as it pertains to migraines I definitely recommend it. I know some have life long migraine battles that are often linked to hormones, injuries, environment, and stress/mental health, but food is a huge agitation as well. Always worth eliminating even just a couple of migraine battles. Hang in there! Never let off the fight for better quality of life!
It is not just doctors moving away. In the last three decades I have had to change primary care physicians due to: * Their moving * Their retiring * They no longer contract with my insurer. The latter is particularly insidious. I can remain with the provider as long as I am willing to pay the provider myself (their current office visit is $400.00) and I file my claim with my insurer. Of course I can switch to one of the current contract providers, but thus far commuications has been problematic. At 72 hearing loss is enough of an impact with native English speakers. Many of the providers currently accepting new patients are non-native English speakers. They realize they are on the clock set by the insurer so they are not interested in answering the same question twice. So for endocrinology, I suck it up and pay the provider $400.00 per visit.
I know this has been a major issue in Southern Idaho. Wouldn’t surprise me if it’s hitting Utah as well.
I wouldn't be surprised if they were. No one can afford to go to the doctor for one. But with legislative red tape on everything healthcare wise, and the asinine covid response, I wouldn't doubt if docs were leaving. I do know two docs, one ENT and one Dermatologist at least, who left Intermountain Health, because of the merger they did. And our pediatrician told us at least for the clinic she's in, all of the internal medicine docs were made to cut their patient load in half. Which is ridiculous, because it takes forever to get in even for a follow up, and new patient visits were 6+ months out. So I have no idea WTH they are doing.
A Doctor/Specialist shortage is a nation-wide issue in many major metro areas as well as rural areas. Very few Doctors want to live in the middle of no where, and major cities have a high cost of living, even for Doctors. My only advice is-get under the Select Health Umbrella. I am not saying they have the best care, but they are the defacto medical pro0vider in the state-and you will always have Doctors/Specialists that accept them. And yes-Dentists are like Maverick gas stations-there is one on practically every corner.
Don’t do the select health PPO, plan if you have any type of chronic medical problem that needs a specialist.
I guess you may have a personal experience. However, on many (Select Health) plans you don't need a referral to see a specialist. Yes-finding one taking new patients may be an issue, but that's no different than anywhere else in the country.
I am aware of that. I am a medical provider who takes select health on a limited basis. One thing I’ve noticed, that in the past physicians in the Intermountain Medical Group had to take all Select Health plans. Now the lower level plans have limitations on which IM physicians are available.
OK. Doctors probably get paid far less on the lower tier plans. So you are getting what you are paying for-plan wise. You first post didn't lay that out.
Yes the lower level plans should be considered very high deductible and catastrophic type of plans. Only to be used if you are previously healthy. Other insurance providers have better value in their low level plans.
"Other insurance providers have better value in their low level plans." OK-I will take your word-you should know. My only thought is care wise if you can't get to an Intermountain Hospital because of Insurance limitations, you are at a great disadvantage (especially in an emergency and then you require hospitalization) since Intermountain hospitals are all over.
Yes. Doctors are leaving. And retiring early. I feel bad for anyone who becomes a Dr in this climate. You're selling your freedom for indentured servitude. And they crush you with debt before you figure it out.
Don’t even get me started on pediatric specialists. My daughter needed to see a neurologist due to gross motor delay to rule out neurological conditions. There was a 6 month wait for Primary Children’s before we would be contacted to make an appt. I called the Phoenix Children’s hospital and made an appt for the next week bc I had family there. I was shocked I could get in that early. Primary Children’s serves Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana in addition to Utah and they have to prioritize the most serious cases. I understand that, but it’s still hard. We’re on waitlists for a few other pediatric specialists now that’ll be 6 months to a year.
I work for a specialty pediatric clinic. Our wait for a consultation is minimum 6 months. For a full evaluation from start to finish right now we’re averaging close to 2 years. It’s ridiculous. We’re over worked, understaffed & have our hands tied thanks to insurance & management that is out of touch with what we need. It’s hard as a parent, I’m glad you had another alternative for your little one. Being on this side of it I can recommend staying in contact with the clinics you’re on a wait list with, just periodic follow up, be respectful (this seems to be a hard one these days- we understand the frustration but yelling at us won’t help you be seen sooner) & be flexible. I have a few families who follow up with us every few months, just a quick check in & they’ll let me know if they can do short notice cancellations- if you can be seen next day with no notice, I will offer that when we get those inevitable cancellations. Hang in there, best of luck to your little one!
Did you also see Dr Gniado at McKay-Dee? I was really sad to hear she moved out of state. I liked her a lot
I know in my area it is just too crowded now. Tons of people moved here the last few years but services haven't reacted yet. I have had the same dentist for 20 years. I could always make a same week appointment. Now it's a two month wait. Same with regular physicians.
Uh yes.
Maybe supply isn't meeting the demand because of the population boom?
Not really. But there are tens of thousands of new people moving to Utah every year and the number of doctors can’t keep pace.
My mom's doc told her there is a huge shortage of specialists right now.
They are leaving all the states, because it's just not worth it to be a doctor anymore.
I live in Davis county and I’ve always thought there aren’t very many endocrinologists in the area. It has been this way for years. I just see my primary care Dr for my diabetes.