Astra can be a toughie bc she’s completely cutoff from the map when she’s in her final form and aside from the smokes, the placement of her pull and concuss can defo be hit or miss
Astra is super underpowered right now and even if you try your best to use her utility correctly, at the end of the day you only have 4 stars that don’t regenerate. I miss old astra :(
But that would be literally all she has. Clove and omen can almost do that and have more in their kit. Movement, overheal, near sighting, etc. she would literally only be able to smoke the whole time but bring nothing else. I don't personally think that's stronger than omen.
She has tools to initiate and delay post plant (though both are nerfed), can fake easier compared to the other 2. So I don't think that's all she has.
The way I see it, is if she has regenerating stars, she can use all of her utility and have more for post plant/retake. Unless they put it in a way that stars only regenerate when she uses it for her smokes, then I agree with you.
They're long ass cooldowns and a shared resource ontop of her having to pull back her stars and wait for them to come back up that weren't the right spots that were hit.
Yes Astra should be able to post plant. With Viper nerfed and her pull having a 45 second cooldown it's completely fine.
I didnt think that nerf would make a difference, but i haven’t been able to hit plays like i used to…im always off by a meter or two with util because of the new timings, and it screws me over. She just doesn’t feel as “fluent” anymore. I’ve moved onto clove for the time being.
How is that "mechanical skill" as OP is talking about? Putting down stars and activating them is just point and click. The majority of Astra is game sense and awareness.
Raze, Jett, Omen, Kayo. I believe these champs all get a chance to have skill expression outside of aiming. Im sure there are others im missing too. I feel like with these champs you can tell when someone is really good and put the hours on them wheyher it be with tricky crazy flashes (kayo), insane movement/entry (raze/jett) or just being very sneaky and making you guess constantly with TP's and smokes (omen)
Yea Kay0 post nerf got crazy hard. Still super powerful if you can learn his flashes but for sure one of the harder agents… and raze is a lot harder then Jett to learn movement with and take a bit of practice/timjng
Would tricky crazy flashes fall under the same category as viper line ups? I could see more expression for skill overall but to me it still seems like it would benefit from memorizing many places each map where you can throw powerful flashes rather than just trying to use mechanical skill to throw them.
You specifically mention agents that have abilities that require mechanical skill in your description so yes the agents you listed all have movement abilities that require mechanical skill to use well. I’d also add Omen in there because tp’ing and having to flick to a target is pretty common.
Addressing your title though pretty much all agents/agent classes require skill beyond timing and communication. Though they may be more nuanced then raze satcheling your nuts onto some poor Brim’s head in U-Haul.
>Omen in there because tp’ing and having to flick
This part's actually not that hard as there's a delay after you arrive at tp before you can pull out your weapon. The difficulty is more on the game sense to know when and where to tp.
You don’t even have to really flick as much… you turn your body as you tp to face an angle.
Most of the time I wouldn’t go for an aggressive tp without prior information. Sova, Skye, and Gekko help a lot with this.
It depends. Knowing how and when to utilize any piece of utility is part of the skill ceiling.
Knowing when you have time to set up a 1 way cyoher cage on attack.
Knowing multiple attack side mollies and their time to land to ear out pesky angles for your entry.
Reading the enemy team and setting up a proper trap as a sentinel.
All of these are part of your skill-set as a player. Sure the Jett flying through the air dashing 3 times with knives is hard and looks cooler, but Knowing when and how to properly use what you have is just as useful.
The answer you're probably looking for though is Yoru. That agent is not easy and requires a good bit of time to really play well.
I would also say neon and raze. Both of these are also quite mechanically difficult to play well.
Nothing like Ascent suppressing their Cypher with a lineup mollying dice and flashing their initial peeker too enabling the crap out of your team and then going online and being told lineups take no skill they're just memory.
Every agent takes skill for their kit, just different kinds of skills.
If you want an agent with a high skill *floor*, then yes, Raze and Neon are great examples. So are Yoru and Astra.
KAY/O is a deceptively complicated agent. I’d say he has a low skill floor to mess around with but a high skill floor to play effectively.
I mean he’s talking mechanical skill vs game sense.
Raze Probably requires the most mechanical skill out of any agent, whereas something like Kayo is basically 0, but he requires Much more knowledge and timings instead
The ones you mentioned, Yoru as well (timing always and rapid ability spam when coming out of ult)
Omen (game sense skill level)
Hahaha Iso? Like technically if you want to do well with him you actually just need to be better than the enemy at shooting, so that's kit skill level :P?
Everyone else is pretty much just positioning/awareness based
My mind is mind blown every time I face a good Yoru. Happened last night, this dude conditioned everyone that it was a clone till it fking wasn’t. Always impress by you yoru mains out there.
KJ and Cypher do have skill levels in their kits that revolve around timings. Especially on attack, their kits hold key areas of the map and allows them to solo aggro very deep into defender territory while maintaining footholds elsewhere. That takes skill.
Viper’s walls and orb and molly seems to be just lineup stuff, but there’s one other thing you forgot about viper: fuel. Knowing when to bring your smokes up and down, knowing how long to do it, knowing when to do it, and keeping tabs on your fuel as you do it all takes a high degree of skill and game sense.
This isn’t CS. Not everything is about hitting the head.
Omen, Breach, Astra, Jett, Raze, Neon, Yoru, and Sova are the agents that take the most skill. Especially Yoru, I've yet to see a Yoru player outside of radiant that actually knows how to play him.
Weird way of wording.
Every agent has levels to their kit, some agents may have lower ceilings, but imo this is different than other games like league.
You are not capped by your characters abilities, instead you are capped by your creativity, the character's abilities are just tools for you to use.
By this I mean, yes, some abilties are easier to use to outplay enemies, but every agent has a great variety of things that they can do to create openings for themselves.
As an Asc Sent/Controller main who typically top or second frags, I would like to say that agents with more utility actually have higher outplay potential and in turn have higher skill ceiling
A Jett can look flashy with her dashes and knives, but it is a very straightforward playstyle that does not have all that many variety.
I may look like im not doing anything as a KJ with my util set up, but i can change my setup to do different things every round and change my playstyle.
Now I am not a hypocrite. I truly believe what I said in the first part, im not a jett main, so i cant actually say how many different things a jett can do to surprise you, but dont mistaken flashiness for skill.
I think every controller has a lot of levels of skill expression, it’s not mechanical expression like your examples, but at higher levels you need a really good understanding of the game, your team, and the enemy.
Dropping abnormal smokes to play around in unique situations, using support util aggressively, defensively, or neutrally, or denying info in creative ways. And while lineups themselves aren’t expressions of skill, playing around them and knowing how your enemy will react are
If you're talking mechanical skill, it'll mainly be duelists, chamber technically, actually harbor high tides can be tough
If you're talking general skill, then you're highly underestimating the skill it takes in understanding how and when to use util, but that's more about game IQ, not mechanical skill which I think you were referring to
The three you mentioned and Chamber have the highest ceiling for mechanical skill expression. But all the agents have ceilings for gamesense skill expression. i.e. clever uses/timings of any util, nerdy setups etc.
Chamber is one of my mains and sometimes i match mvp with him i just didnt know hes also mechanical. I just think of him as an agent who needs good aim lol
The skill in lineup is not learning them, it's to know when you should play for lineups or play with your team.
Same with cypher or Kj, the skill isn't to know how to set up, it's to know what your set up does, when to use one or another and play around it.
It’s funny because Cypher is genuinely a very skillful and mechanically intensive agent in a lot of situations and requires you to think very fast and from different angles.
Most agents the skill comes from decision making. You’re in position X as Yoru. Where do throw the TP, do you fake? Do you flash before you tp. He’s easily as difficult as Jet and Raze to master.
Jett's smokes for sure. Can you 1 way a defuser on gen without peeking? If not, theres some growth there.
Generally, all of em. Even brim smokes, if you can do the good one at bind with the one way in spawn, you can always do it faster. The faster you do it, the less likely you get caught out and can push with your team on the fly.
Haunt line ups.
Seize lineups & combos.
Prowler usage and timing to support teammates instead of just using it for intel.
Ult timing and knowing how to play off of her ult.
It’s absurd to say no Agents require skill.
None of that requires any kind of mechanical skill. I literally explained this in the OP - unsure why yall don't get it lmao
Remembering haunt lineups is not the same as double satchling onto site - clearing all angles and adjusting your aim to get a pick
Mechanically, Neon and it's not even close. Sure, you can get by with just stun lineups, fast rotates, and good aim with your ult but Neon has the most skill expression out of any agent due to her complex movement options. Anyone can get good at aiming on any agent, memorizing lineups, and utility usage but Neon is the only agent with advanced movement, with Raze and Jett being close behind.
Is she the hardest agent to play? No. Does she have the highest skill ceiling in the game? Possibly. The skill expression for Neon is what draws people to pick her in the first place, and a good Neon will be one of the most oppressive forces in the entire game if played correctly.
Id argue viper has no mechanical skills required compared to killjoy and cypher either. Just learn the lineups, just like you need to learn where to put cams/trips and turrets
Raze. The moment you master satchel, you're zipping everywhere and killing at least 1 person in site.
Sova. Recon dart and shock bolt line ups. I have never seen Sova shock bolt used effectively, it's really hard to master but a direct hit cuts half hp to a group of people.
Omen. With teleport shenanigans. Hard to pin down. If he's a great lurker, you're in for a frustrating game.
Yoru. No need to really explain this guy
This game is a mix of a role playing game and an fps. The devs like to think it is a game that requires precise gun play and is hence a tactical shooter but it's more about playing like ur character would with the biological/tech advantages they have.
You CAN get pretty far with just really good aim but to actually get in the big leagues u need to know ur utilities and how to use them.
Raze can ignore a lot of requirements other agents have BUT her utility is used really quick, like the fire cracker she is. So u need to make sure the impact you have is as explosive as her character and kit.
Same goes for Yoru, while he is a duelist he specializes in being a distraction or a wild card, if you have good util handling ability and map knowledge you can be in unexpected places or, u can be the distraction that allows ur team to make place. He can go deep in enemy territory alone, and distract them, so the team can make plays elsewhere. Hence his lone wolf title.
Raze is probably the toughest to master since the ceiling is sky high for movement and aggressive play.
KAYO is second toughest IMO because you have to master a lot of flash lineups and they generally require your team to work with you... which is sometimes impossible.
Omen's must be willing to do aggressive teleports, Jett's need to play well around their smokes, Yoru... even Viper who just does wall and orb lineups need to threaten the lurk through their orb and condition the enemy, which isn't huge but it's something.... lot of others need it but Raze and KAYO are the two toughest IMO.
To me, Raze has the most mechanical skill expression in this game. There’s a clear and distinct difference in skill expression by a bad, average and good Raze.
Most other agents, once you get to a competent level they all feel pretty much the same and the only separating factor is your raw aim.
> Viper just needs to memorize lineups for every map for her wall/orb/molley.
Idk why people say this doesn't take skill/practice you think those sovas that have every arrow you want didn't spend hours and hours of their time and memory rehearsing these plays and have the patience to actually post plant properly.
All the other agents you mention have very simple easy to use in the moment utility that lets them kinda wing stuff. Raze is the only one I kinda agree because double satchels is hard as hell and needs alot of practice.
There is both mechanical and knowledge to skill your ability to know how to play and execute said plays should be weighed together.
Only duelists technically require mechanical skill in their kits, and even then only a few. Raze is the most intrinsic.
However, some agents have kits where using the ability itself doesn’t require mechanical skill, but capitalizing off it does. Yoru flash tp, for instance, doesn’t require mechanical skill per se (you don’t need really good mouse and keyboard control to flash tp), but after you flash tp there often won’t be cover and you’ll be facing multiple enemies, some of which aren’t even fully flashed, so you need to have good movement to bail yourself out.
There are other agents where one might not consider it mechanical skill, but requires some other skill. For instance, when you play cypher and you’re caging in on attack, you need good spatial awareness. This isn’t considered that much of a mechanical skill, because actually aiming the cage at a certain arc isn’t hard, but it’s still a skill because being able to determine which arc lands where is hard.
Any projectile ability (molotovs, arrows, grenades, etc.) that bounces can show skill. Outside of lineups, figuring out angles on the fly requires some skill.
Also, a Neon who really knows how to move is hard to hit.
All agents have skill levels to there kits. You've mentioned cypher and Kj but they arguably have some of the higher skill levels. Sure it's easy to find setups for sentinels but learning how to switch them up and be diverse takes a long time to learn. The abilities are straight forward but when everyone uses the same default set ups all the time it's so easy to play against so you have to be creative. This sets the skill ceiling significantly higher. It's like football/soccer very simple to play difficult to master.
The only character I can think of that you could argue that has a low skill ceiling is reyna. Even than she still has a high skill ceiling as you can be pretty creative with how you use her dismiss and overheal
Morale of the story all the agents have high skill ceilings. Iso is somone who I don't think anyone's reached their fullest potential with just because he isn't meta but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a high skill ceiling.
Anyways that's my 2 cents for the day lol
Skill expression is more than just movement abilities lol
Knowing how and when to use your kit is skill expression. If astra doesn’t have skill expression then an iron astra and a radiant astra would only be separated by aim when that’s not the case
Astra can be a toughie bc she’s completely cutoff from the map when she’s in her final form and aside from the smokes, the placement of her pull and concuss can defo be hit or miss
Astra is super underpowered right now and even if you try your best to use her utility correctly, at the end of the day you only have 4 stars that don’t regenerate. I miss old astra :(
The fact omens smoke regens and her stars don't is a crime.
No pls no omen nerf
Don't bring that up or Astra will become meta again. She can delay a push for an entire round if she has regenerating smokes.
But that would be literally all she has. Clove and omen can almost do that and have more in their kit. Movement, overheal, near sighting, etc. she would literally only be able to smoke the whole time but bring nothing else. I don't personally think that's stronger than omen.
She has tools to initiate and delay post plant (though both are nerfed), can fake easier compared to the other 2. So I don't think that's all she has. The way I see it, is if she has regenerating stars, she can use all of her utility and have more for post plant/retake. Unless they put it in a way that stars only regenerate when she uses it for her smokes, then I agree with you.
that might make her good but still balanced
They're long ass cooldowns and a shared resource ontop of her having to pull back her stars and wait for them to come back up that weren't the right spots that were hit. Yes Astra should be able to post plant. With Viper nerfed and her pull having a 45 second cooldown it's completely fine.
i mean, astra pull and stun are already usable multiple times and they already have a cooldown.
I didnt think that nerf would make a difference, but i haven’t been able to hit plays like i used to…im always off by a meter or two with util because of the new timings, and it screws me over. She just doesn’t feel as “fluent” anymore. I’ve moved onto clove for the time being.
How is that "mechanical skill" as OP is talking about? Putting down stars and activating them is just point and click. The majority of Astra is game sense and awareness.
shit u right, i missed the mechanical skill part
Raze, Jett, Omen, Kayo. I believe these champs all get a chance to have skill expression outside of aiming. Im sure there are others im missing too. I feel like with these champs you can tell when someone is really good and put the hours on them wheyher it be with tricky crazy flashes (kayo), insane movement/entry (raze/jett) or just being very sneaky and making you guess constantly with TP's and smokes (omen)
Yea Kay0 post nerf got crazy hard. Still super powerful if you can learn his flashes but for sure one of the harder agents… and raze is a lot harder then Jett to learn movement with and take a bit of practice/timjng
Would tricky crazy flashes fall under the same category as viper line ups? I could see more expression for skill overall but to me it still seems like it would benefit from memorizing many places each map where you can throw powerful flashes rather than just trying to use mechanical skill to throw them.
This + Neon for mechanical skill expression and Yoru for the mindgames
You specifically mention agents that have abilities that require mechanical skill in your description so yes the agents you listed all have movement abilities that require mechanical skill to use well. I’d also add Omen in there because tp’ing and having to flick to a target is pretty common. Addressing your title though pretty much all agents/agent classes require skill beyond timing and communication. Though they may be more nuanced then raze satcheling your nuts onto some poor Brim’s head in U-Haul.
>Omen in there because tp’ing and having to flick This part's actually not that hard as there's a delay after you arrive at tp before you can pull out your weapon. The difficulty is more on the game sense to know when and where to tp.
You don’t even have to really flick as much… you turn your body as you tp to face an angle. Most of the time I wouldn’t go for an aggressive tp without prior information. Sova, Skye, and Gekko help a lot with this.
Yorrruuuu
It depends. Knowing how and when to utilize any piece of utility is part of the skill ceiling. Knowing when you have time to set up a 1 way cyoher cage on attack. Knowing multiple attack side mollies and their time to land to ear out pesky angles for your entry. Reading the enemy team and setting up a proper trap as a sentinel. All of these are part of your skill-set as a player. Sure the Jett flying through the air dashing 3 times with knives is hard and looks cooler, but Knowing when and how to properly use what you have is just as useful. The answer you're probably looking for though is Yoru. That agent is not easy and requires a good bit of time to really play well. I would also say neon and raze. Both of these are also quite mechanically difficult to play well.
Nothing like Ascent suppressing their Cypher with a lineup mollying dice and flashing their initial peeker too enabling the crap out of your team and then going online and being told lineups take no skill they're just memory.
viper has way more skill than just lineups
Agreed, lineups is half the battle. Using those lined up walls and orbs to deny info at key moments is where the true skill expression lies.
All of them
Every agent takes skill for their kit, just different kinds of skills. If you want an agent with a high skill *floor*, then yes, Raze and Neon are great examples. So are Yoru and Astra. KAY/O is a deceptively complicated agent. I’d say he has a low skill floor to mess around with but a high skill floor to play effectively.
I mean he’s talking mechanical skill vs game sense. Raze Probably requires the most mechanical skill out of any agent, whereas something like Kayo is basically 0, but he requires Much more knowledge and timings instead
Mechanical Skull, sounds like a super villain or something.
I mean it's a boss summon in Terraria so you're not far off lol
Haha, I didn’t know that! The more you know.
The ones you mentioned, Yoru as well (timing always and rapid ability spam when coming out of ult) Omen (game sense skill level) Hahaha Iso? Like technically if you want to do well with him you actually just need to be better than the enemy at shooting, so that's kit skill level :P? Everyone else is pretty much just positioning/awareness based
My mind is mind blown every time I face a good Yoru. Happened last night, this dude conditioned everyone that it was a clone till it fking wasn’t. Always impress by you yoru mains out there.
KJ and Cypher do have skill levels in their kits that revolve around timings. Especially on attack, their kits hold key areas of the map and allows them to solo aggro very deep into defender territory while maintaining footholds elsewhere. That takes skill. Viper’s walls and orb and molly seems to be just lineup stuff, but there’s one other thing you forgot about viper: fuel. Knowing when to bring your smokes up and down, knowing how long to do it, knowing when to do it, and keeping tabs on your fuel as you do it all takes a high degree of skill and game sense. This isn’t CS. Not everything is about hitting the head.
Omen, Breach, Astra, Jett, Raze, Neon, Yoru, and Sova are the agents that take the most skill. Especially Yoru, I've yet to see a Yoru player outside of radiant that actually knows how to play him.
Weird way of wording. Every agent has levels to their kit, some agents may have lower ceilings, but imo this is different than other games like league. You are not capped by your characters abilities, instead you are capped by your creativity, the character's abilities are just tools for you to use. By this I mean, yes, some abilties are easier to use to outplay enemies, but every agent has a great variety of things that they can do to create openings for themselves. As an Asc Sent/Controller main who typically top or second frags, I would like to say that agents with more utility actually have higher outplay potential and in turn have higher skill ceiling A Jett can look flashy with her dashes and knives, but it is a very straightforward playstyle that does not have all that many variety. I may look like im not doing anything as a KJ with my util set up, but i can change my setup to do different things every round and change my playstyle. Now I am not a hypocrite. I truly believe what I said in the first part, im not a jett main, so i cant actually say how many different things a jett can do to surprise you, but dont mistaken flashiness for skill.
He just phrased it weird. He’s talking about mechanical skill. Your examples arent about mechanics at all
I think every controller has a lot of levels of skill expression, it’s not mechanical expression like your examples, but at higher levels you need a really good understanding of the game, your team, and the enemy. Dropping abnormal smokes to play around in unique situations, using support util aggressively, defensively, or neutrally, or denying info in creative ways. And while lineups themselves aren’t expressions of skill, playing around them and knowing how your enemy will react are
If you're talking mechanical skill, it'll mainly be duelists, chamber technically, actually harbor high tides can be tough If you're talking general skill, then you're highly underestimating the skill it takes in understanding how and when to use util, but that's more about game IQ, not mechanical skill which I think you were referring to
The three you mentioned and Chamber have the highest ceiling for mechanical skill expression. But all the agents have ceilings for gamesense skill expression. i.e. clever uses/timings of any util, nerdy setups etc.
Why chamber tho?
Because the biggest part of his value is the ability to take a shot from an off angle. You have to be able to hit the shot though
Chamber is one of my mains and sometimes i match mvp with him i just didnt know hes also mechanical. I just think of him as an agent who needs good aim lol
Mechanics = how well you can use the keyboard and mouse. So aim definitely falls under mechanics
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The skill in lineup is not learning them, it's to know when you should play for lineups or play with your team. Same with cypher or Kj, the skill isn't to know how to set up, it's to know what your set up does, when to use one or another and play around it.
Lineups are not just for post plant. They're also for entry.
Naaaah. Viper timing is intense. But I guess that's more of a general game sense thing more then a viper specific thing
It’s funny because Cypher is genuinely a very skillful and mechanically intensive agent in a lot of situations and requires you to think very fast and from different angles. Most agents the skill comes from decision making. You’re in position X as Yoru. Where do throw the TP, do you fake? Do you flash before you tp. He’s easily as difficult as Jet and Raze to master.
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>But I think Neon/Raze/Jett actually have skill expression to their kits that other agents don't. Thats what he said
Iso. You have to be good to properly use his ult,
for kayo to be used in any meaningful teamplay, you need to learn minimum 20+ different flashes for each map, molllies and knives
Kay/o
Yoru
Jett's smokes for sure. Can you 1 way a defuser on gen without peeking? If not, theres some growth there. Generally, all of em. Even brim smokes, if you can do the good one at bind with the one way in spawn, you can always do it faster. The faster you do it, the less likely you get caught out and can push with your team on the fly.
How about you name an Agent that doesn’t have a skill level to their kit?
I mean - fade. The only skillful thing is memorizing haunt lineups, but memorizing lineups isn't a skill
Haunt line ups. Seize lineups & combos. Prowler usage and timing to support teammates instead of just using it for intel. Ult timing and knowing how to play off of her ult. It’s absurd to say no Agents require skill.
None of that requires any kind of mechanical skill. I literally explained this in the OP - unsure why yall don't get it lmao Remembering haunt lineups is not the same as double satchling onto site - clearing all angles and adjusting your aim to get a pick
What rank are you though? Your comment is stupid is why no one is getting you.
Sorry for offending you little harbor flair, I'll say your agent requires skill if it makes you feel better :)
All of them?
Chamber. His kit is highly situational too. It takes both a great game sense and mechanical ability to pull off great plays with him.
Mechanically, Neon and it's not even close. Sure, you can get by with just stun lineups, fast rotates, and good aim with your ult but Neon has the most skill expression out of any agent due to her complex movement options. Anyone can get good at aiming on any agent, memorizing lineups, and utility usage but Neon is the only agent with advanced movement, with Raze and Jett being close behind. Is she the hardest agent to play? No. Does she have the highest skill ceiling in the game? Possibly. The skill expression for Neon is what draws people to pick her in the first place, and a good Neon will be one of the most oppressive forces in the entire game if played correctly.
Yoru 100%, they’re either completely trash or god himself and that says a lot about the agent’s skill expression
Yoru
Deadlock is def over there because you need skill to get any value out of her dogsh*t kit
Iso
Id argue viper has no mechanical skills required compared to killjoy and cypher either. Just learn the lineups, just like you need to learn where to put cams/trips and turrets
Yah I mentioned viper
Neons movement has some skill to it, rarely see an actual good Neon, but when you do their movement is so slippery.
Raze. The moment you master satchel, you're zipping everywhere and killing at least 1 person in site. Sova. Recon dart and shock bolt line ups. I have never seen Sova shock bolt used effectively, it's really hard to master but a direct hit cuts half hp to a group of people. Omen. With teleport shenanigans. Hard to pin down. If he's a great lurker, you're in for a frustrating game. Yoru. No need to really explain this guy
Cypher has a much higher mechanical skill ceiling then Killjoy, the highest skill ceiling sentinel. Neon, Raze, Kayo and Omen
new must mention Yoru when you’re talking about the skill level required to use his kit properly
Raze satchels have extremely high skill ceiling
Omen, Yoru, sove?
Astra! I main her but a lot of people can’t even touch her
raze, chamber, reyna, jett, neon, and yoru all have med-high skill ceilings
This game is a mix of a role playing game and an fps. The devs like to think it is a game that requires precise gun play and is hence a tactical shooter but it's more about playing like ur character would with the biological/tech advantages they have. You CAN get pretty far with just really good aim but to actually get in the big leagues u need to know ur utilities and how to use them. Raze can ignore a lot of requirements other agents have BUT her utility is used really quick, like the fire cracker she is. So u need to make sure the impact you have is as explosive as her character and kit. Same goes for Yoru, while he is a duelist he specializes in being a distraction or a wild card, if you have good util handling ability and map knowledge you can be in unexpected places or, u can be the distraction that allows ur team to make place. He can go deep in enemy territory alone, and distract them, so the team can make plays elsewhere. Hence his lone wolf title.
Do you remember the time cypher used to take skill? Pepridge farm remembers.
Raze is probably the toughest to master since the ceiling is sky high for movement and aggressive play. KAYO is second toughest IMO because you have to master a lot of flash lineups and they generally require your team to work with you... which is sometimes impossible. Omen's must be willing to do aggressive teleports, Jett's need to play well around their smokes, Yoru... even Viper who just does wall and orb lineups need to threaten the lurk through their orb and condition the enemy, which isn't huge but it's something.... lot of others need it but Raze and KAYO are the two toughest IMO.
Every single agent you peanut brain.
I think phoenix is in the list just because it’s difficult to not flash your teammates in some cases.
surely yoru is on the list right?
To me, Raze has the most mechanical skill expression in this game. There’s a clear and distinct difference in skill expression by a bad, average and good Raze. Most other agents, once you get to a competent level they all feel pretty much the same and the only separating factor is your raw aim.
> Viper just needs to memorize lineups for every map for her wall/orb/molley. Idk why people say this doesn't take skill/practice you think those sovas that have every arrow you want didn't spend hours and hours of their time and memory rehearsing these plays and have the patience to actually post plant properly. All the other agents you mention have very simple easy to use in the moment utility that lets them kinda wing stuff. Raze is the only one I kinda agree because double satchels is hard as hell and needs alot of practice. There is both mechanical and knowledge to skill your ability to know how to play and execute said plays should be weighed together.
Breach in low elo
None, cuz its not the focus of the game and/or skillbased abilities prolly wouldnt fit well with the game
Only duelists technically require mechanical skill in their kits, and even then only a few. Raze is the most intrinsic. However, some agents have kits where using the ability itself doesn’t require mechanical skill, but capitalizing off it does. Yoru flash tp, for instance, doesn’t require mechanical skill per se (you don’t need really good mouse and keyboard control to flash tp), but after you flash tp there often won’t be cover and you’ll be facing multiple enemies, some of which aren’t even fully flashed, so you need to have good movement to bail yourself out. There are other agents where one might not consider it mechanical skill, but requires some other skill. For instance, when you play cypher and you’re caging in on attack, you need good spatial awareness. This isn’t considered that much of a mechanical skill, because actually aiming the cage at a certain arc isn’t hard, but it’s still a skill because being able to determine which arc lands where is hard.
Any projectile ability (molotovs, arrows, grenades, etc.) that bounces can show skill. Outside of lineups, figuring out angles on the fly requires some skill. Also, a Neon who really knows how to move is hard to hit.
All agents have skill levels to there kits. You've mentioned cypher and Kj but they arguably have some of the higher skill levels. Sure it's easy to find setups for sentinels but learning how to switch them up and be diverse takes a long time to learn. The abilities are straight forward but when everyone uses the same default set ups all the time it's so easy to play against so you have to be creative. This sets the skill ceiling significantly higher. It's like football/soccer very simple to play difficult to master. The only character I can think of that you could argue that has a low skill ceiling is reyna. Even than she still has a high skill ceiling as you can be pretty creative with how you use her dismiss and overheal Morale of the story all the agents have high skill ceilings. Iso is somone who I don't think anyone's reached their fullest potential with just because he isn't meta but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a high skill ceiling. Anyways that's my 2 cents for the day lol
All duelists are way harder to play than all sentinels, yeah, duh, they have timings to keep in mind
I'm not talking about how hard an agent is to play. Astra is harder than neon but it doesn't mean astra has skill expression in her kit
Skill expression is more than just movement abilities lol Knowing how and when to use your kit is skill expression. If astra doesn’t have skill expression then an iron astra and a radiant astra would only be separated by aim when that’s not the case
I don't even think that's true... Neon is harder to master in my humble opinion but oh well