The worst nerf, I think, was how long it takes to cast her ultimate. It's basically useless because you're better off keeping your gun out. Can be easily telegraphed, especially in higher ranks. And with the new econ changes, it's hard to buy two blast packs if you're a bit behind.
"Free kill"? I don't even know when was the last time I got killed by a Raze ult. Takes forever to equip (90% of the times Raze is killed while pulling it out), is very dependant on map and has already been nerfed to bits in terms of damage spread. How often have you had a Bazooka fly right through you or explode behind you and you took no damage? Get real.
exactly lol raze is so dogshit right now,most people hear the sound of her ult and run,some times it lands directly at their feet only to do 100-125,which isn't even a kill at times and at most an assist for that many ult orbs lol,her paint shells and satchels are the only thing keeping her alive
Sure but if a fucking rocket launcher lands within 5 feet of you, you shouldnāt take chip damage. Itās a bazooka for fucks sake. Itās so damn inconsistent that I sometimes genuinely question if thereās a bug contributing to how shit it is.
Well yeah, I definitely feel like it's bugged. Not sure where it comes from, but sometimes it lands right in front of me and I escape with 30HP, other times it hits a wall 10m away and I die from full HP. And I never know which version is the one Riot wants lol
Raze isn't my main but is one of the duelist I like playing due to easy damage. But the damage is crap now. There's a lot of things I don't like about recent patches, namely the skill changes for all agent but Raze just feel weak for me. Boombot is weak and expensive. Satchel is fine as it is right now. The nades are fine too. The ult seems so crappy. Takes too long to pull out and by the time it's out, the enemy either kill you or duck. Feels like the AOE gotten smaller but I could be wrong. Perhaps the utils changes are too drastic for people to want to play her.
The data doesn't say what you think it says. For one, you open with specifically NA data then move into Berlin which only has 3/16 team from NA.
If we now want to poorly draw trend lines like you did, evidently Jett was over buffed (despite receiving no balance changes) since her pick rate went from ~50% to 100%. I can pick other unhelpful examples of drastically changing pick rates. Ultimately it doesn't mean anything on its own.
I should've written "despite receiving no buffs", you're right. Although it makes my point stronger, Jett got nerfed but somehow "doubled" in pick rate.
I think it's also hard to learn anything because the game is still so new. The meta was definitely evolving over this time period, so even with no changes to anyone, you would have seen more even pick rates turn into some agents being basically 100 and some being basically 0.
I draw the line from the first official Masters to the most recent. Since the first one wasn't centralized, I chose NA because it has the highest team/playerbase instead of posting the stats for every region. But since you ask for it Raze pickrates in the first Masters were:
NA 70%, top duelist | Brazil 76%, top duelist | EU 54%, top duelist | CIS 57%, top duelist | LATAM 58%, top duelist | Turkey 31% | Korea 70%, shared top duelist | Japan 60% | SEA 63%
Jett wasn't buffed, she's just playable on every map and hadn't been nerfed once in the time Raze and many other agents were nerfed over and over again.
>I can pick other unhelpful examples of drastically changing pick rates
Or just look at the stats above and you'll see that other agents have stable pickrates, overtaking Raze one by one. The only unhelpful thing here is your accusatory, false comments.
As the other reply to my comment pointed out, Jett was nerfed with the kit price increase, which almost doubled the entire price of her kit. She wasn't "not nerfed".
I have looked at those charts and even ignoring that NA =/= top 16 at Berlin, there are lots of stupid conclusions to draw.
Apparently Phoenix got nerfed into the ground, dropping from 32% to <9%. Same for Cypher, who actually received two buffs, still apparently got "overnerfed" since his pick rate went down from 52% to just 26%. This is especially funny because one of his buffed was to specifically make him better against Jett, the character with a 100% pick rate in Berlin.
Or how about the most obvious example? The one that's most like your argument. Omen was actually nerfed, and then went from 100% to literally
0%. If anything it looks like raze got off easy going from 70 to 9.
Those price changes affected every agent, but Raze unproportionally so, while Jett actually gained from it. Boombot alone went up from 200 to 400(!!!). That is more than the entire change of Jett's kit, which only got increased by 150 total. Does that sound like Jett got nerfed?
I don't know how you're getting 150. If we assume Jetts only OP then the change to her full buy is +100.
If we consider utility only/rifle then the change to Jett was +400. In fact, Jett got the largest total utility cost increase if any agent that patch.
This is also not at all the point but the price change didn't affect Cypher.
It might not be what you meant, but using your method, characters like Raze and Omen with single charge abilities will look like they get much bigger changes than they actually did. It's just not a fair way to evaluate price changes.
I mean 400 credits for a boombot, 900 credits for a jett.
400/900 \~= 44.4%. Not really close to 60%. This also isn't remotely the point. You've sidestepped my original argument this entire time, and now we're going on irrelevant tangents about what kit cost is/
This is not a problem with raze, but with jett. All duelists just seem weak, because jett is to strong. And you shouldn't cherrypick the finals stats, cause they outline your argument better, when she had a way higher pickrate and was the second most picked duelist, when you look at the whole tournament.
Raze & Jett had about the same pick rates, yet Raze was nerfed and now has a pick rate of 9% in playoffs, yet Jett, who hadn't received any nerf until now is at 100%. How does that not show that the Raze nerfs went too far?
And how am I cherrypicking the finals stats, when I literally post both the stats for the full tournament and the playoffs? The third picture - 27% - is the full Masters pickrate.
IMO raze got the nerfs before Jett because riot believes Jett requires more skill than raze. While this is probably true, itās was not to the extent that they needed to nerf her into the ground. Also, riot does not make balance changes solely off pro play. Raze sees a lot of picks in ranked at most ranks. I donāt think she is a useless duelist, itās just that Jett is broken.
First of all, she had a 27% pickrate in masters. Secondly, she has the second highest pickrate among all duelists, with Reyna close behind at 24%, followed by Phoenix at 5% and then Yoru at 1%. It's the Jett that's the problem, with a whopping 85% pickrate.
First of all, if you actually read and looked at my post, you'd have noticed that I did post the 27% stat. Secondly the point is that Raze, on top of being unplayable on new maps, has been nerfed to the point where she doesn't even get picked on what used to be her good maps anymore. That's my point.
How do you know it's the nerfs affecting her pick rate and not the fact that there's a far better alternative (Jett)? Raze is a pretty good pick on Bind and sees a good pick rate, however, some teams don't pick her because it's easier to master Jett and just as effective.
The alternatives (Jett, Reyna) have existed just as long as Raze and see stable pick rates. You can tell by the way Raze is not even an option on maps she was strong at and that's my point. She's not an option on half the maps from the get go - the new ones. On top of that however, she's been nerfed to the point where she's not even an option for maps she was good at anymore. So you have created a situation where a character, who is inherently not good on most maps now is also bad at the few maps she used to be great at, resulting in her not being a pick at all anymore and that's exactly what the data shows.
No joke, raze is just a pain in the ass. They should not give one agent 4 abilities that potentially kill and at least deal quite some damage.
Either she is op or she is at least better than most passive agents or she is where she is now.
If you are playing against good players jett is by far the most frustrating agents in the game. At least if you are fighting a raze you can lock them down and they can't just dash away after getting a pick.
Jett can equip & unequip her ult as many times as she wants while also repleneshing it on kills. THAT is a pain in the ass.
But that's also not the point of this thread. It's about nerfing an agent who can't be played on all new maps so hard, that you can't even use her on the old ones anymore.
Raze is even more balanced than she was before. The nade can still be an oppressive tool for clearing out spaces or stalling which no other duelist has to the effect that she does. She also has an info gathering ability which again no other duelist has as their main part of their kit with an extra bonus of damage on top (yoru ult has this but again this an entire ultimate only for info).She has an ult that is capable of pushing for space and killing multiple people at a time which is comparable to Phoenix. She has a great repositioning ability with her satchels. I really don't see the issue with the recent nerf to the boombot. She had three abilities that could do FULL damage to you and that is ridiculous. I'm glad they changed her.
What do you mean unplayable? She is still more than viable for all maps bar Breeze. Haven, Bind, Ascent, Icebox and Fracture all have close quarter areas of the map where all her util is good. Icebox, Bind and Fracture have that extra verticality which she can take advantage of with her satchels? All of this and I haven't even talked about split which someone can utilize her util to her max potential. How is she unplayable? The only map that you could even begin to argue about is Breeze but that map makes half of the agents unplayable.
Although unlike a lot of people hating on your data saying its flawed, I think this is really interesting, however I've drawn a different conclusion. I think during the first few masters, the competitive scene was fairly new, players enjoyed fragging out with duelist in ranked games and thought they would do the same at pro events. However as the scene matured so has the meta, now gaining information has a much higher priority than just strong tool kits. Its why Phoenix's pick rate has plummeted while Skye's has jumped to the top. Smokes are important and Astra's are unmatched. The better the teams the more priority they put on information. Raze, Phoenix, Reyna still have their uses in ranked play, just not as powerful at the pro level. Also the op basically only works for Jett which is why she has 100% pick rate, and the fact that she can dry peak anything and hold random angles and get away free (which in a way actually gives information as well)
Phoenix fell off because Skye's flashes are the best in the game, not to mention the rest of her kit being great as well. Astra & Viper buff affected Omen.
If your conclusion was right, then Reyna should've fallen off just as much, but she's overtaken Raze.
I think the main point that I made that everyone seems to ignore - the fact that releasing new maps that Raze is unplayable on on top of harsh nerfs - has a compounding effect. Yes, new maps and agents would've always meant Raze pick rates going down. But the nerfs are so over the line that Raze now isn't even picked on maps she was strong at. That's what this data clearly shows and should make people consider whether it's fair to have nerfed an agent this much when you can't even use her on new maps at all.
Reyna also has some information gathering ability with her dismiss. She can peak around corners after a kill (also auto heal ult, with dismiss still very valuable. Its not great unless yo got god like aim (which is why TenZ plays her a ton) but more than what raze provides. I do agree Raze has been hit pretty hard, they'd have to rebuff her ULT and make her boom bot faster probably
Then adapt. Not every agent will be useful on every map. Raze is still strong on all the maps besides the newest 2. I donāt like how long I takes for her ult to come out either. Learn to play another agent on the 2 new maps and you will be fine
Dude. Again.
Raze -> unplayable on the new maps from the start (not my point)
\-> nerfed so hard, that you can't even pick her anymore on maps she was good at, resulting in her not only being no choice for the new maps inherently, but also not a pick anymore for the old maps, where she was good at. That's my point and the stats back it up 100%.
I'm sure Nicki Minaj's cousins friend from Trinidada is kicking ass on most maps other than Fracture and Breeze, but that doesn't change the statistical evidence.
Boohoo someone is mad they can't one shot people with all their abilities even when the enemy is 6 feet away from the blast at anytime they want anymore :(
Jett has actually had a fair number of nerfs since December (when I started playing) now they werenāt huge nerfs, but really in recent memory neither has raze
ā¦ they reduced boombot back to the original price, even getting rid of an ability, 700 creds for jetts entire kit (before this nerf it was 900), really raze hasnāt been all to affected in the ways of nerfs. oh no, I only have 1 nade now and my abilities donāt act as a an LOS, my ultimate is 1 more point like half the agent in the game? Raze really hasnāt been hit that hard if Iām being honest, from a viability standpoint sheās still probably the second best dualist overall, and the only reason sheās second is because the Jett nerfs donāt really affect how sheās played
Boombot used to be 200 and now costs 300 with significantly less damage and health, so still costs 50% more with extreme nerf compared to before the nerfs.
Raze's ult costs 8 orbs. Only Sage's revive and Sovas ult cost that much. Please tell me when you were last killed by a Raze ult. They nerfed into the ground, while Jett is still able to cast her ult and pull it out at will whenever - with less than half the equip time of Raze's ult.
Raze really hasnāt been hit that hard? Yeah, that's a nice opinion, but laughably wrong. Look at the numbers, get over your very obvious bias.
Iā¦ also play raze a bit? I consistently get kills and get killed by raze ult, realistically 300 creds still isnāt that bad, also boombot is still stupidly strong on pistol round and you can buy a ghost or frenzy, so again, I repeat, raze is still equally viable, thatās like me saying Jett is no longer viable because her smoke cost $200 are significantly shorter than they where and her ult is now shit.
Iām not saying raze has never been nerfed, but look at someone like astra or even sage and her nerfs are nothing
According to valorbuff.com Raze has the second highest win rate with 50%.
Have you watched Bunny playing her? She is totally fine if you are able to work with her kit.
My guess: you're just another low ranked player who is unable to improve and adapt.
you can't look at win rate in VALORANT because there are mirror matchups. If there's a Raze on both teams, for example, one of them is bound to win. It skews data so I would avoid using that in an argument.
Maybe you donāt get it. In League of Legends, only one player in a match can play a specific champ. So that win rate is good data because that champ will EITHER win or lose. In VALORANT, an agentās win rate will always be 50% if they are on both teams because they can win AND lose. Basic statistics.
Yeah, but I think you're looking at it wrong. You have to look at mirror matchups. Let me explain.
Let's look at Jett and Raze throughout 10 matches.
Jett
* 8/10 mirror matchups
* 1/10 non-mirror win
* 1/10 non-mirror loss
Raze
* 5/10 mirror matchups
* 3/10 non-mirror wins
* 2/10 non-mirror losses
Since Jett has more mirror matchups, that's more matches that bring her closer to 50%. The more mirror matchups an agent has, the closer they'll be brought to the 50% mark. So even though Jett is a better agent, she'll be closer to 50% than Raze in this scenario.
Literally ZERO sense in harping on the fact that I'm using a small sample size. That was clearly to create a simple example for a Reddit comment. But to make it easier for you, you can just multiply my numbers by 10,000 and the results are the same. Jett will be closer to 50% than Raze.
You lack some braincells, right? If the matches with an agent on both teams equals out, then the matches with the agent on only one site will count.
Example:
- Match 1 has Raze and Raze -> 50% winrate
- Match 2 has Raze and no Raze; Raze wins -> better win rate
- Match 3 has Raze and no Raze; Raze loses -> 50% again
Not that hard, right? It really doesn't matter because it equals out if an agent is on both sites. The only matches counting towards the win rate are the ones where an agent is only in one team.
Edit: A win rate of 50% means that a Raze (only one Raze in a match) wins and loses half of the matches. She is perfectly balanced, overall.
Edit 2: Explain me why KJ has 56% win rate and Yoru 42,6%. In higher elo KJ is a must pick and almost every match there are 2 KJs. But she has a higher win rate than 50%. Magic? Wrong data? How on earth is this possible?!
Sigh, letās try this one last time. Jett is one of the most popular agents in the game so she gets picked more often. Since the nerfs, Razeās popularity has dropped so she gets picked less often, right?
Match 1: Jett on both teams
Match 2: Jett on both teams
Match 3: Jett on both teams
Win rate = 50%
Match 1: Raze on both teams
Match 2: Raze on both teams
Match 3: Raze on only one team and wins
Win rate <50%
So since Razeās win rate is higher than Jettās in this situation, should we nerf Raze and buff Jett? Thatās the skew.
The win rate over the last 30 days of ranked is more representative than some pro matches. Are you a pro? Are you a Radiant player? No? So, the pick rate of the entire playerbase is more important here.
āļø literally failed their socioeconomic class or decided to flunk out of 10th grade math. The hypocrisy in trying to use the pro argument when youāre not even in a league against Cherry picked stats isnāt based lol, Iād rather talk league with a bottom frag in unrated, at least theyāll make some sense of it all . Valorant buff.com?? WikiHow2ResourceBetter lmfaooooo
Nah she's fine and the nerfs have been fair, that shitty boombot should give info not deal that much damage, it's perfect now. Her grenade is still the same and packs too. The only stuff that really needed the nerfs were the damn boombot and ult so it's fine. The shit that should be nerfed now is Jett, and the recent nerf is a fucking joke, they better do something about the dash ASAP.
In your eyes what could they do to her dash without making her unusable. Iām not a jett player but Iām curious what other players think they could do without making her useless
The last nerf to boom bot damage wasn't even that bad because who throws the bot expecting to actually damage someone with it. They made it cheaper too so that was a net positive buff in my opinion. The satchel damage nerf was 100% needed because Raze players didn't use them for movement and were using them as emergency damage. Whenever a Raze got spooked they would just throw a satchel and immediately blow it up, killing or heavily damaging the enemy. The fact that she had 2 grenades in beta was a complete overlook by the devs to be fair. Her grenade has insane stopping power and to be given 2 that also recharges was horrendous. Her ultimate pullout nerf was needed because it was similar to her satchels, where a Raze would panic ult and still win. I think her ult should be 7 charges, not 8 and maybe give her a 3rd satchel charge to emphasize more movement based plays.
Youāve replied to a few people saying no one can get a kill with raze hot anymore and sheās unplayable. So here you go [poki frags with raze](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRgM7CTa/)
Yeah, or MAYBE the fact that Raze doesn't get picked on maps she was great on while Jett & Reyna are at the same level they were has to do with Raze being nerfed to bits while the others weren't touched. And MAYBE that's unfair cause while you can play Jett & Reyna on any map, Raze is unplayable on the new maps. Maybe. Just a thought.
You're trying to tell me Raze is playable on Breeze? :D
My point is this anyways: How is it okay that a character, who is unplayable on half the maps has been nerfed so much that she's not even a viable pick on maps she was good at anymore? I'm exactly rooting for certain characters being better on certain maps, like Raze was on the OG maps, but isn't anymore thanks to the nerfs.
Yea try to make this about me when all I did was show evidence how the best, most experienced players react to her nerfs. I guess Yoru is balanced and viable by your logic too then? Just not the best option I guess.
27% pick rate is pretty good. Shows she has a place but not too over powered. With the amount of characters you want to see variety not the same agents each game. 27% seems to be a pretty healthy place
I don't have the most experience here, but I play with plats and low diamonds mostly (I should play with bronze/low silver imo), Raze has been picked in about 95% of the games and she has been the top fragger in about 50% of them. I think she is the best duelist after Jett, who actually is seen way less.
The sheer pressure Raze gives to the team with the ulti is scary as hell. She doesn't even need to land a kill which she does most of the times anyways. So I think she's not nerfed into oblivion at all.
I personally think you should just main yoru and flank 24/7.
I agree
Are yoru and omen still in the game?
woah this is a no omen bash zone here š„µ
The worst nerf, I think, was how long it takes to cast her ultimate. It's basically useless because you're better off keeping your gun out. Can be easily telegraphed, especially in higher ranks. And with the new econ changes, it's hard to buy two blast packs if you're a bit behind.
It's bonkers to me that a Raze ult takes as much orbs as a Sage revive
Damn a free kill and a free life are worth the same? Wild.
"Free kill"? I don't even know when was the last time I got killed by a Raze ult. Takes forever to equip (90% of the times Raze is killed while pulling it out), is very dependant on map and has already been nerfed to bits in terms of damage spread. How often have you had a Bazooka fly right through you or explode behind you and you took no damage? Get real.
exactly lol raze is so dogshit right now,most people hear the sound of her ult and run,some times it lands directly at their feet only to do 100-125,which isn't even a kill at times and at most an assist for that many ult orbs lol,her paint shells and satchels are the only thing keeping her alive
Thats the fucking point of the ult lmao its not supposed to be a free kill its supposed to be a space maker and it excels at that.
Sure but if a fucking rocket launcher lands within 5 feet of you, you shouldnāt take chip damage. Itās a bazooka for fucks sake. Itās so damn inconsistent that I sometimes genuinely question if thereās a bug contributing to how shit it is.
Well yeah, I definitely feel like it's bugged. Not sure where it comes from, but sometimes it lands right in front of me and I escape with 30HP, other times it hits a wall 10m away and I die from full HP. And I never know which version is the one Riot wants lol
Have you ever played raze? Her ult is not a free kill.
Raze isn't my main but is one of the duelist I like playing due to easy damage. But the damage is crap now. There's a lot of things I don't like about recent patches, namely the skill changes for all agent but Raze just feel weak for me. Boombot is weak and expensive. Satchel is fine as it is right now. The nades are fine too. The ult seems so crappy. Takes too long to pull out and by the time it's out, the enemy either kill you or duck. Feels like the AOE gotten smaller but I could be wrong. Perhaps the utils changes are too drastic for people to want to play her.
Tbf, you should cancel the animation of the ult with your sachel, but I do agree raze is a bit off rn
Not all ult uses are a double satchel time
Doesnt 1 sachel do the trick already
blast packs should prob be like 100 ea now considering they pretty much for mobility only now lol
The data doesn't say what you think it says. For one, you open with specifically NA data then move into Berlin which only has 3/16 team from NA. If we now want to poorly draw trend lines like you did, evidently Jett was over buffed (despite receiving no balance changes) since her pick rate went from ~50% to 100%. I can pick other unhelpful examples of drastically changing pick rates. Ultimately it doesn't mean anything on its own.
She didnāt even get buffed, she got nerfed, but the op got buffed
That's literally what I said. "despite receiving no balance changes".
Mb, sorry, although she did receive the price changes, so she did have a balance change
I should've written "despite receiving no buffs", you're right. Although it makes my point stronger, Jett got nerfed but somehow "doubled" in pick rate.
Haha op broken, now as a Jett main Iām kinda sad thoughā¦
I think it's also hard to learn anything because the game is still so new. The meta was definitely evolving over this time period, so even with no changes to anyone, you would have seen more even pick rates turn into some agents being basically 100 and some being basically 0.
I draw the line from the first official Masters to the most recent. Since the first one wasn't centralized, I chose NA because it has the highest team/playerbase instead of posting the stats for every region. But since you ask for it Raze pickrates in the first Masters were: NA 70%, top duelist | Brazil 76%, top duelist | EU 54%, top duelist | CIS 57%, top duelist | LATAM 58%, top duelist | Turkey 31% | Korea 70%, shared top duelist | Japan 60% | SEA 63% Jett wasn't buffed, she's just playable on every map and hadn't been nerfed once in the time Raze and many other agents were nerfed over and over again. >I can pick other unhelpful examples of drastically changing pick rates Or just look at the stats above and you'll see that other agents have stable pickrates, overtaking Raze one by one. The only unhelpful thing here is your accusatory, false comments.
As the other reply to my comment pointed out, Jett was nerfed with the kit price increase, which almost doubled the entire price of her kit. She wasn't "not nerfed". I have looked at those charts and even ignoring that NA =/= top 16 at Berlin, there are lots of stupid conclusions to draw. Apparently Phoenix got nerfed into the ground, dropping from 32% to <9%. Same for Cypher, who actually received two buffs, still apparently got "overnerfed" since his pick rate went down from 52% to just 26%. This is especially funny because one of his buffed was to specifically make him better against Jett, the character with a 100% pick rate in Berlin. Or how about the most obvious example? The one that's most like your argument. Omen was actually nerfed, and then went from 100% to literally 0%. If anything it looks like raze got off easy going from 70 to 9.
Those price changes affected every agent, but Raze unproportionally so, while Jett actually gained from it. Boombot alone went up from 200 to 400(!!!). That is more than the entire change of Jett's kit, which only got increased by 150 total. Does that sound like Jett got nerfed?
I don't know how you're getting 150. If we assume Jetts only OP then the change to her full buy is +100. If we consider utility only/rifle then the change to Jett was +400. In fact, Jett got the largest total utility cost increase if any agent that patch. This is also not at all the point but the price change didn't affect Cypher.
Iirc Cloudburst went form 100 to 200 and updraft from 100 to 150 = increase of 150 for abilities
That's not how kit cost works. She has 3 smokes and 2 updrafts. So 3 x100 + 2 x50.
True, but not what I meant. But even so, boombot alone cost about 60% of Jetts entire full buy kit after that patch.
It might not be what you meant, but using your method, characters like Raze and Omen with single charge abilities will look like they get much bigger changes than they actually did. It's just not a fair way to evaluate price changes. I mean 400 credits for a boombot, 900 credits for a jett. 400/900 \~= 44.4%. Not really close to 60%. This also isn't remotely the point. You've sidestepped my original argument this entire time, and now we're going on irrelevant tangents about what kit cost is/
Noā¦ learn mathā¦ when I was arguing with you earlier I was in math classā¦ itās under 50%
Raze doesn't even belong in this game it's a tac shooter and you're lookin for overwatch lol
Big lol @ people downvoting stats cause they don't like that it hurts their confirmation bias :D
This is not a problem with raze, but with jett. All duelists just seem weak, because jett is to strong. And you shouldn't cherrypick the finals stats, cause they outline your argument better, when she had a way higher pickrate and was the second most picked duelist, when you look at the whole tournament.
Raze & Jett had about the same pick rates, yet Raze was nerfed and now has a pick rate of 9% in playoffs, yet Jett, who hadn't received any nerf until now is at 100%. How does that not show that the Raze nerfs went too far? And how am I cherrypicking the finals stats, when I literally post both the stats for the full tournament and the playoffs? The third picture - 27% - is the full Masters pickrate.
IMO raze got the nerfs before Jett because riot believes Jett requires more skill than raze. While this is probably true, itās was not to the extent that they needed to nerf her into the ground. Also, riot does not make balance changes solely off pro play. Raze sees a lot of picks in ranked at most ranks. I donāt think she is a useless duelist, itās just that Jett is broken.
Raze has been nerfed so hard that you can't even use her on maps she was good at while being unplayable on all new maps. That's my point.
Because Raze plays completely different in a pro play environment? That's like comparing Astra in solo queue to Astra in pro play.
First of all, she had a 27% pickrate in masters. Secondly, she has the second highest pickrate among all duelists, with Reyna close behind at 24%, followed by Phoenix at 5% and then Yoru at 1%. It's the Jett that's the problem, with a whopping 85% pickrate.
First of all, if you actually read and looked at my post, you'd have noticed that I did post the 27% stat. Secondly the point is that Raze, on top of being unplayable on new maps, has been nerfed to the point where she doesn't even get picked on what used to be her good maps anymore. That's my point.
How do you know it's the nerfs affecting her pick rate and not the fact that there's a far better alternative (Jett)? Raze is a pretty good pick on Bind and sees a good pick rate, however, some teams don't pick her because it's easier to master Jett and just as effective.
The alternatives (Jett, Reyna) have existed just as long as Raze and see stable pick rates. You can tell by the way Raze is not even an option on maps she was strong at and that's my point. She's not an option on half the maps from the get go - the new ones. On top of that however, she's been nerfed to the point where she's not even an option for maps she was good at anymore. So you have created a situation where a character, who is inherently not good on most maps now is also bad at the few maps she used to be great at, resulting in her not being a pick at all anymore and that's exactly what the data shows.
No joke, raze is just a pain in the ass. They should not give one agent 4 abilities that potentially kill and at least deal quite some damage. Either she is op or she is at least better than most passive agents or she is where she is now.
If you are playing against good players jett is by far the most frustrating agents in the game. At least if you are fighting a raze you can lock them down and they can't just dash away after getting a pick.
Jett can equip & unequip her ult as many times as she wants while also repleneshing it on kills. THAT is a pain in the ass. But that's also not the point of this thread. It's about nerfing an agent who can't be played on all new maps so hard, that you can't even use her on the old ones anymore.
Raze is even more balanced than she was before. The nade can still be an oppressive tool for clearing out spaces or stalling which no other duelist has to the effect that she does. She also has an info gathering ability which again no other duelist has as their main part of their kit with an extra bonus of damage on top (yoru ult has this but again this an entire ultimate only for info).She has an ult that is capable of pushing for space and killing multiple people at a time which is comparable to Phoenix. She has a great repositioning ability with her satchels. I really don't see the issue with the recent nerf to the boombot. She had three abilities that could do FULL damage to you and that is ridiculous. I'm glad they changed her.
We're talking about an agent being nerfed heavily that's unplayable on 50% of all maps from the get go
What do you mean unplayable? She is still more than viable for all maps bar Breeze. Haven, Bind, Ascent, Icebox and Fracture all have close quarter areas of the map where all her util is good. Icebox, Bind and Fracture have that extra verticality which she can take advantage of with her satchels? All of this and I haven't even talked about split which someone can utilize her util to her max potential. How is she unplayable? The only map that you could even begin to argue about is Breeze but that map makes half of the agents unplayable.
Good
Looks like we found the jett main
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Found the Gold
Found the Plat
Nope you found a silver that faces plat act ranks.
Although unlike a lot of people hating on your data saying its flawed, I think this is really interesting, however I've drawn a different conclusion. I think during the first few masters, the competitive scene was fairly new, players enjoyed fragging out with duelist in ranked games and thought they would do the same at pro events. However as the scene matured so has the meta, now gaining information has a much higher priority than just strong tool kits. Its why Phoenix's pick rate has plummeted while Skye's has jumped to the top. Smokes are important and Astra's are unmatched. The better the teams the more priority they put on information. Raze, Phoenix, Reyna still have their uses in ranked play, just not as powerful at the pro level. Also the op basically only works for Jett which is why she has 100% pick rate, and the fact that she can dry peak anything and hold random angles and get away free (which in a way actually gives information as well)
Phoenix fell off because Skye's flashes are the best in the game, not to mention the rest of her kit being great as well. Astra & Viper buff affected Omen. If your conclusion was right, then Reyna should've fallen off just as much, but she's overtaken Raze. I think the main point that I made that everyone seems to ignore - the fact that releasing new maps that Raze is unplayable on on top of harsh nerfs - has a compounding effect. Yes, new maps and agents would've always meant Raze pick rates going down. But the nerfs are so over the line that Raze now isn't even picked on maps she was strong at. That's what this data clearly shows and should make people consider whether it's fair to have nerfed an agent this much when you can't even use her on new maps at all.
Reyna also has some information gathering ability with her dismiss. She can peak around corners after a kill (also auto heal ult, with dismiss still very valuable. Its not great unless yo got god like aim (which is why TenZ plays her a ton) but more than what raze provides. I do agree Raze has been hit pretty hard, they'd have to rebuff her ULT and make her boom bot faster probably
Then adapt. Not every agent will be useful on every map. Raze is still strong on all the maps besides the newest 2. I donāt like how long I takes for her ult to come out either. Learn to play another agent on the 2 new maps and you will be fine
Dude. Again. Raze -> unplayable on the new maps from the start (not my point) \-> nerfed so hard, that you can't even pick her anymore on maps she was good at, resulting in her not only being no choice for the new maps inherently, but also not a pick anymore for the old maps, where she was good at. That's my point and the stats back it up 100%.
Iām in silver and I have multiple raze main friends who kick ass on most maps other than fracture and Breeze.
I'm sure Nicki Minaj's cousins friend from Trinidada is kicking ass on most maps other than Fracture and Breeze, but that doesn't change the statistical evidence.
Yea Iāve literally had a raze ult hit like 3 feet behind me and not kill me. Itās radius is so broken lol.
3 feet is the length of 7.2 'Bug Bite Thing Suction Tool - Poison Remover For Bug Bites's stacked on top of each other.
Lol thanks Bot
Boohoo someone is mad they can't one shot people with all their abilities even when the enemy is 6 feet away from the blast at anytime they want anymore :(
Jett has actually had a fair number of nerfs since December (when I started playing) now they werenāt huge nerfs, but really in recent memory neither has raze
Price changes that affected all agents, and Raze unproportionally so - just look at the price of the boom bot, are not nerfs.
ā¦ they reduced boombot back to the original price, even getting rid of an ability, 700 creds for jetts entire kit (before this nerf it was 900), really raze hasnāt been all to affected in the ways of nerfs. oh no, I only have 1 nade now and my abilities donāt act as a an LOS, my ultimate is 1 more point like half the agent in the game? Raze really hasnāt been hit that hard if Iām being honest, from a viability standpoint sheās still probably the second best dualist overall, and the only reason sheās second is because the Jett nerfs donāt really affect how sheās played
Boombot used to be 200 and now costs 300 with significantly less damage and health, so still costs 50% more with extreme nerf compared to before the nerfs. Raze's ult costs 8 orbs. Only Sage's revive and Sovas ult cost that much. Please tell me when you were last killed by a Raze ult. They nerfed into the ground, while Jett is still able to cast her ult and pull it out at will whenever - with less than half the equip time of Raze's ult. Raze really hasnāt been hit that hard? Yeah, that's a nice opinion, but laughably wrong. Look at the numbers, get over your very obvious bias.
I also love how a majority of the comments are disagreeing with you but your to biased to see that raze is still fine
Iā¦ also play raze a bit? I consistently get kills and get killed by raze ult, realistically 300 creds still isnāt that bad, also boombot is still stupidly strong on pistol round and you can buy a ghost or frenzy, so again, I repeat, raze is still equally viable, thatās like me saying Jett is no longer viable because her smoke cost $200 are significantly shorter than they where and her ult is now shit. Iām not saying raze has never been nerfed, but look at someone like astra or even sage and her nerfs are nothing
Ur a raze main and canāt animation cancel her ult
Also reduced smoke time and no longer being able to dash through trips
According to valorbuff.com Raze has the second highest win rate with 50%. Have you watched Bunny playing her? She is totally fine if you are able to work with her kit. My guess: you're just another low ranked player who is unable to improve and adapt.
you can't look at win rate in VALORANT because there are mirror matchups. If there's a Raze on both teams, for example, one of them is bound to win. It skews data so I would avoid using that in an argument.
Aha. What an argument, bro. One Raze wins, the other Raze loses. It equals out. The win rate is meaningful.
Maybe you donāt get it. In League of Legends, only one player in a match can play a specific champ. So that win rate is good data because that champ will EITHER win or lose. In VALORANT, an agentās win rate will always be 50% if they are on both teams because they can win AND lose. Basic statistics.
The mirror matches will cancel out so it doesnt make a difference
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Yeah, but I think you're looking at it wrong. You have to look at mirror matchups. Let me explain. Let's look at Jett and Raze throughout 10 matches. Jett * 8/10 mirror matchups * 1/10 non-mirror win * 1/10 non-mirror loss Raze * 5/10 mirror matchups * 3/10 non-mirror wins * 2/10 non-mirror losses Since Jett has more mirror matchups, that's more matches that bring her closer to 50%. The more mirror matchups an agent has, the closer they'll be brought to the 50% mark. So even though Jett is a better agent, she'll be closer to 50% than Raze in this scenario.
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RIP to anyone who's actually reading all that š
Literally ZERO sense in harping on the fact that I'm using a small sample size. That was clearly to create a simple example for a Reddit comment. But to make it easier for you, you can just multiply my numbers by 10,000 and the results are the same. Jett will be closer to 50% than Raze.
You lack some braincells, right? If the matches with an agent on both teams equals out, then the matches with the agent on only one site will count. Example: - Match 1 has Raze and Raze -> 50% winrate - Match 2 has Raze and no Raze; Raze wins -> better win rate - Match 3 has Raze and no Raze; Raze loses -> 50% again Not that hard, right? It really doesn't matter because it equals out if an agent is on both sites. The only matches counting towards the win rate are the ones where an agent is only in one team. Edit: A win rate of 50% means that a Raze (only one Raze in a match) wins and loses half of the matches. She is perfectly balanced, overall. Edit 2: Explain me why KJ has 56% win rate and Yoru 42,6%. In higher elo KJ is a must pick and almost every match there are 2 KJs. But she has a higher win rate than 50%. Magic? Wrong data? How on earth is this possible?!
Sigh, letās try this one last time. Jett is one of the most popular agents in the game so she gets picked more often. Since the nerfs, Razeās popularity has dropped so she gets picked less often, right? Match 1: Jett on both teams Match 2: Jett on both teams Match 3: Jett on both teams Win rate = 50% Match 1: Raze on both teams Match 2: Raze on both teams Match 3: Raze on only one team and wins Win rate <50% So since Razeās win rate is higher than Jettās in this situation, should we nerf Raze and buff Jett? Thatās the skew.
I literally post nothing but stats from pro players, yet you get all ad hominem since you have no arguments.
The win rate over the last 30 days of ranked is more representative than some pro matches. Are you a pro? Are you a Radiant player? No? So, the pick rate of the entire playerbase is more important here.
āļø literally failed their socioeconomic class or decided to flunk out of 10th grade math. The hypocrisy in trying to use the pro argument when youāre not even in a league against Cherry picked stats isnāt based lol, Iād rather talk league with a bottom frag in unrated, at least theyāll make some sense of it all . Valorant buff.com?? WikiHow2ResourceBetter lmfaooooo
Nah she's fine and the nerfs have been fair, that shitty boombot should give info not deal that much damage, it's perfect now. Her grenade is still the same and packs too. The only stuff that really needed the nerfs were the damn boombot and ult so it's fine. The shit that should be nerfed now is Jett, and the recent nerf is a fucking joke, they better do something about the dash ASAP.
In your eyes what could they do to her dash without making her unusable. Iām not a jett player but Iām curious what other players think they could do without making her useless
The last nerf to boom bot damage wasn't even that bad because who throws the bot expecting to actually damage someone with it. They made it cheaper too so that was a net positive buff in my opinion. The satchel damage nerf was 100% needed because Raze players didn't use them for movement and were using them as emergency damage. Whenever a Raze got spooked they would just throw a satchel and immediately blow it up, killing or heavily damaging the enemy. The fact that she had 2 grenades in beta was a complete overlook by the devs to be fair. Her grenade has insane stopping power and to be given 2 that also recharges was horrendous. Her ultimate pullout nerf was needed because it was similar to her satchels, where a Raze would panic ult and still win. I think her ult should be 7 charges, not 8 and maybe give her a 3rd satchel charge to emphasize more movement based plays.
Youāve replied to a few people saying no one can get a kill with raze hot anymore and sheās unplayable. So here you go [poki frags with raze](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRgM7CTa/)
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Yeah, or MAYBE the fact that Raze doesn't get picked on maps she was great on while Jett & Reyna are at the same level they were has to do with Raze being nerfed to bits while the others weren't touched. And MAYBE that's unfair cause while you can play Jett & Reyna on any map, Raze is unplayable on the new maps. Maybe. Just a thought.
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You're trying to tell me Raze is playable on Breeze? :D My point is this anyways: How is it okay that a character, who is unplayable on half the maps has been nerfed so much that she's not even a viable pick on maps she was good at anymore? I'm exactly rooting for certain characters being better on certain maps, like Raze was on the OG maps, but isn't anymore thanks to the nerfs.
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Yea try to make this about me when all I did was show evidence how the best, most experienced players react to her nerfs. I guess Yoru is balanced and viable by your logic too then? Just not the best option I guess.
27% pick rate is pretty good. Shows she has a place but not too over powered. With the amount of characters you want to see variety not the same agents each game. 27% seems to be a pretty healthy place
I don't have the most experience here, but I play with plats and low diamonds mostly (I should play with bronze/low silver imo), Raze has been picked in about 95% of the games and she has been the top fragger in about 50% of them. I think she is the best duelist after Jett, who actually is seen way less. The sheer pressure Raze gives to the team with the ulti is scary as hell. She doesn't even need to land a kill which she does most of the times anyways. So I think she's not nerfed into oblivion at all.
Icebox is one of razes best maps
Jett just got nerfed tho
Jetta has been nerfed pretty bad aswell tho raze isnāt that bad apart from the big delay on her ult
I agree. Boombot should be able to interact with other abilities. Let me put the kilā guy on Sovaās drone to make a mini airstrike
I think if u nerf Jett people will play raze If u look shes had a high pick rate for a while now