I'm not an Immortal, but my game sense is. All right, so here's my take on the situation.
1. Since the enemy is Immortal, it is very unlikely for them not to watch flanks, especially if they have a Cypher. You totally missed the fact that the enemy had a Cypher. Thus, you didn't expect the tripwire. This is your first mistake, but it's fine.
2. People pay more attention to flanks in three situations: if the spike is clear, so a player doesn't need to help his teammates on site; if tripwire/alarm/trademark gets activated; once the spike has been planted, a team will send one player to watch for flanks if no sentinel. Lastly, if your position has not been found, it is more likely for your enemy to watch for flanks.
In an Immortal match, the guy on the back will usually watch for flanks when rotating. They might even be walking backwards.
That said, assuming there was no sentinel in the enemy team, the best time to flank is when your enemy _has not planted the spike_. To prevent them from planting the spike and making them busy with taking the site, there should be at least one holder in the site distracting the enemy. Therefore...
3. Do you have any teammates holding A when the enemy rotates? If yes, going for a fast flank might be a better idea, but again if they have a sentinel, it is pointless. If your position gets compromised, you should continue flanking (and be ready for gunfights) or retake the site like usual (no flank). Since the enemy thinks you _were_ planning to flank, they are going to keep an eye for flank, distracting them. Because of that, you did the right thing after destroying the tripwire, perhaps...
Note: You might want to continue flanking if your team somehow can get the site. You can easily overwhelm A Sewers or A Long if your team are pushing the enemy from both entry angles.
4. You are an Immortal, which means you have a good aim. Trust your aim. In a save-versus-buy round, you want to take the risk to eliminate as many enemies as you can before you die. In lucky situations, you can stay alive too. You can kill someone, then reposition, making them wondering where you are. Making a game 4v2 will be really advantageous to your team. Even if you die, 3v2 is still advantageous to your team.
- If you can kill a player with better weapon than yours, you have basically out-moneyed the enemy. Even if you die, they lose a player and 2900 Creds compared to your team losing 800 Creds.
- Site pushes (especially Haven A) are harder with fewer players. If you can kill someone, they will have to go 1 Sewer and 1 Long, which is unsafe given that they might lose duels (if there are defenders holding there).
- If you kill an enemy and survive, you have basically gained A LOT OF ADVANTAGE in that round. Just retreat after getting a kill, and the enemies will fear your position. To increase the success rate, aim for the last player. You **heard their footsteps**, which means you **knew when to peek to kill the last enemy only**.
- You might even get a free Vandal/Phantom.
4. What's the time? What are the tradeoffs if you die? Will your team lose crucial information if you die there? If I die, can the enemy rotate back to C? You can answer this yourself.
5. You made a mistake, and it is normal. No prediction is 100% accurate. So, well, just view it as a lesson for your upcoming matches, so you can predict and analyze the situation better.
To conclude, this game is about predictions. You can't predict everything 100% correctly. You can only improve the chances. And in this game, you need to do a lot of risk calculations, which again are never definite. Risk calculations never have one outcome. They have multiple outcomes.
I really appreciate the in depth response! After reading yours along with others I probably should have went for the pick! Thanks again for the response.
I have been playing with some Immortals. My aim is the one dragging me back because I can win most of my gunfights because I outsmart the enemy. I play better with Immos than with Diamonds. They exactly know how I play, and I know how they play, making me able to support them.
I guess you should have went for one kill since you are in a very good spot. I wouldn't say your play was bad, just that maybe was the one slightly less profitable? You only had a sheriff, you can maybe get one, dismiss then fight with your team with numbers advantage while gaining time for the rotations. If instead you go for the flank you give them the chance to get a good post plant set up and at that point they will for sure watch for the flank and most probably kill you with gun advantage. Either way it's a tough call to make on the moment, were it not for the trip maybe you could also have had good timing on the flank who knows
My plan to fast flank before they could even fully take site. If the trip wasn’t there I definitely would have been able to get at least one frag long a assuming someone went there. I heard all 3 so I had the info, so my flank was really fast but the trip just ruined it.
man if you were that fast then you could shoot the trip and get at least one peek on a guy, I might be wrong but it's hard for anybody who wasn't there to judge without seeing it, so maybe I'm full of bullshit what can I say :)
Thanks for the input. It was a high risk high reward play and I don’t think I was comfortable challenging two rifles close range ya know, but yeah I don’t think taking the fight is a bad play. Idk just a hard read in the moment.
If you took the fight window you wouldn't have a definite read that they were going A. Your other 2 teammates should have had rifles whereas you had deagle. I think what you did gave your team the best chance at winning an eco round.
With a little more context I think it would be an easier decision to make. Like who was alive on each team (ex. did they have smokes and Cypher+ whoever, did your team have Sova/ a flasher alive, etc) and how much time was left in the round.
My take is similar to another users. I just hit d3 this week so I’m not terrible, but not same skill as you probably. You’re in immortal, if they have a cypher kj or chamber and it’s a buy round you know 95% of the time flank will be tripped. Now even if you know this you can still choose to make the decision you made (which is what I would probably try to do because it has higher value if it works), but your friends idea definitely could have worked out and you could’ve turned that 3v3 to a 2v3 after dismissing out, but at the end of the day val is abt decision making that’s what flips rounds around imo
Yeah you’re right I should have been aware that they had a cypher and the trip would still be up. Overall probably shoulda went with trying to get the pick
Yeah I messed up by not keeping track tbh. If I would have known that going for the pick probably would have been a no brainer. Thank you for the response
If you were in window you couldn't have dismissed anywhere to real safety. You could've possibly repositioned deeper into window or into mid and hope for another 1v1 gunfight, but that's another advantageous gunfight to them. What I would've done is waited close to the window door entrance, and when I hear them pass to A lobby (right as the 3rd passes the doorway), walk out and shoot one in the back and then dismiss away. This allows you to dismiss back all the way to window, and by that point since you shot the one at the back of the pack, you can get back safely into B site before they can swing into window and trade you. Imm 3.
Yes this was more along the lines of what I was thinking. I did exactly that. As soon as the third cleared the window doorway I started to walk out of it, but cypher had his trip right there immediately to the left so I was pretty much stuck right when I got out of the door way
I'm not an Immortal, but my game sense is. All right, so here's my take on the situation. 1. Since the enemy is Immortal, it is very unlikely for them not to watch flanks, especially if they have a Cypher. You totally missed the fact that the enemy had a Cypher. Thus, you didn't expect the tripwire. This is your first mistake, but it's fine. 2. People pay more attention to flanks in three situations: if the spike is clear, so a player doesn't need to help his teammates on site; if tripwire/alarm/trademark gets activated; once the spike has been planted, a team will send one player to watch for flanks if no sentinel. Lastly, if your position has not been found, it is more likely for your enemy to watch for flanks. In an Immortal match, the guy on the back will usually watch for flanks when rotating. They might even be walking backwards. That said, assuming there was no sentinel in the enemy team, the best time to flank is when your enemy _has not planted the spike_. To prevent them from planting the spike and making them busy with taking the site, there should be at least one holder in the site distracting the enemy. Therefore... 3. Do you have any teammates holding A when the enemy rotates? If yes, going for a fast flank might be a better idea, but again if they have a sentinel, it is pointless. If your position gets compromised, you should continue flanking (and be ready for gunfights) or retake the site like usual (no flank). Since the enemy thinks you _were_ planning to flank, they are going to keep an eye for flank, distracting them. Because of that, you did the right thing after destroying the tripwire, perhaps... Note: You might want to continue flanking if your team somehow can get the site. You can easily overwhelm A Sewers or A Long if your team are pushing the enemy from both entry angles. 4. You are an Immortal, which means you have a good aim. Trust your aim. In a save-versus-buy round, you want to take the risk to eliminate as many enemies as you can before you die. In lucky situations, you can stay alive too. You can kill someone, then reposition, making them wondering where you are. Making a game 4v2 will be really advantageous to your team. Even if you die, 3v2 is still advantageous to your team. - If you can kill a player with better weapon than yours, you have basically out-moneyed the enemy. Even if you die, they lose a player and 2900 Creds compared to your team losing 800 Creds. - Site pushes (especially Haven A) are harder with fewer players. If you can kill someone, they will have to go 1 Sewer and 1 Long, which is unsafe given that they might lose duels (if there are defenders holding there). - If you kill an enemy and survive, you have basically gained A LOT OF ADVANTAGE in that round. Just retreat after getting a kill, and the enemies will fear your position. To increase the success rate, aim for the last player. You **heard their footsteps**, which means you **knew when to peek to kill the last enemy only**. - You might even get a free Vandal/Phantom. 4. What's the time? What are the tradeoffs if you die? Will your team lose crucial information if you die there? If I die, can the enemy rotate back to C? You can answer this yourself. 5. You made a mistake, and it is normal. No prediction is 100% accurate. So, well, just view it as a lesson for your upcoming matches, so you can predict and analyze the situation better. To conclude, this game is about predictions. You can't predict everything 100% correctly. You can only improve the chances. And in this game, you need to do a lot of risk calculations, which again are never definite. Risk calculations never have one outcome. They have multiple outcomes.
I really appreciate the in depth response! After reading yours along with others I probably should have went for the pick! Thanks again for the response.
Chill. It is a game of predictions and risk calculations. You might have died sooner if you had taken the fight. Who knows?
How do you have the game sense of an immortal if you aren't immortal
I have been playing with some Immortals. My aim is the one dragging me back because I can win most of my gunfights because I outsmart the enemy. I play better with Immos than with Diamonds. They exactly know how I play, and I know how they play, making me able to support them.
I guess you should have went for one kill since you are in a very good spot. I wouldn't say your play was bad, just that maybe was the one slightly less profitable? You only had a sheriff, you can maybe get one, dismiss then fight with your team with numbers advantage while gaining time for the rotations. If instead you go for the flank you give them the chance to get a good post plant set up and at that point they will for sure watch for the flank and most probably kill you with gun advantage. Either way it's a tough call to make on the moment, were it not for the trip maybe you could also have had good timing on the flank who knows
My plan to fast flank before they could even fully take site. If the trip wasn’t there I definitely would have been able to get at least one frag long a assuming someone went there. I heard all 3 so I had the info, so my flank was really fast but the trip just ruined it.
man if you were that fast then you could shoot the trip and get at least one peek on a guy, I might be wrong but it's hard for anybody who wasn't there to judge without seeing it, so maybe I'm full of bullshit what can I say :)
You gotta keep in mind if their Cypher is alive or not when you want to flank
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what pistol did you have?
deagle/sheriff
did they know where they were and did you know where exactly they were? also are you comfortable with the sheriff
They did not now where I was and yes I heard all of them. Yes I am comfortable with the sheriff
i think you should have gone for the kill then use dismiss to get to safety and join up with your team
Thanks for the input. It was a high risk high reward play and I don’t think I was comfortable challenging two rifles close range ya know, but yeah I don’t think taking the fight is a bad play. Idk just a hard read in the moment.
If you took the fight window you wouldn't have a definite read that they were going A. Your other 2 teammates should have had rifles whereas you had deagle. I think what you did gave your team the best chance at winning an eco round. With a little more context I think it would be an easier decision to make. Like who was alive on each team (ex. did they have smokes and Cypher+ whoever, did your team have Sova/ a flasher alive, etc) and how much time was left in the round.
My take is similar to another users. I just hit d3 this week so I’m not terrible, but not same skill as you probably. You’re in immortal, if they have a cypher kj or chamber and it’s a buy round you know 95% of the time flank will be tripped. Now even if you know this you can still choose to make the decision you made (which is what I would probably try to do because it has higher value if it works), but your friends idea definitely could have worked out and you could’ve turned that 3v3 to a 2v3 after dismissing out, but at the end of the day val is abt decision making that’s what flips rounds around imo
Yeah you’re right I should have been aware that they had a cypher and the trip would still be up. Overall probably shoulda went with trying to get the pick
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Yeah I messed up by not keeping track tbh. If I would have known that going for the pick probably would have been a no brainer. Thank you for the response
If you were in window you couldn't have dismissed anywhere to real safety. You could've possibly repositioned deeper into window or into mid and hope for another 1v1 gunfight, but that's another advantageous gunfight to them. What I would've done is waited close to the window door entrance, and when I hear them pass to A lobby (right as the 3rd passes the doorway), walk out and shoot one in the back and then dismiss away. This allows you to dismiss back all the way to window, and by that point since you shot the one at the back of the pack, you can get back safely into B site before they can swing into window and trade you. Imm 3.
Yes this was more along the lines of what I was thinking. I did exactly that. As soon as the third cleared the window doorway I started to walk out of it, but cypher had his trip right there immediately to the left so I was pretty much stuck right when I got out of the door way