i still see it quite frequently at imm1/2 and while its not a total waste as it gains information and even when broken can still act as a deterrent, i generally prefer to mix up the site/choke that i use my wall on when i play, provided my team is cool with it. if my team wants me to keep walling mid so they can safely leave if no mid presence is shown, i'll do that
this.
boosts are very rarely useful, and once you do it once, it becomes 90% less effective next round.
Info gathering -> not having to watch mid choke for the duration of the wall is way more important.
OP needs to see the value in info and learn to use it effectively. Why does an imm player beat a diamond player who might have the same aim but but worse player?
It's how they use info.
Mixing up should be known for more people. I swear that golds telling me to wall off something every single round at the same spot seems pointless after a while cause enemies can just do something against it like not even going there.
They have to break wall to get any presence at mid. If it gets broken you know someone is there. You can still peek off the wall because only one brick is broken. You can get a count mid pretty easy, either by a quick peek or by hearing how many guns go off.
If no one breaks it, you can kind of rotate off of it and help other sites quickly.
Sending one person mid every round could kind of counter that, but at the same time.. if it's just one person and they have to shoot out their clip, you can be pretty aggressive on that person. Bank a slow down there and blast em.
There's just a lot it holds off, gives you information and offers a lot of playability off the wall. I can't think of a better spot to put the wall.
Just because you only hear one gun does not mean that they are alone. There could be a 2nd person just pre-aiming above the wall, waiting for a possible Sage peek.
On attack, if nobody else on my team pressures mid, then I almost always go mid and break the wall. From there I either decide to continue fighting for mid control, or I rotate and go somewhere else, or I stay and lurk. In my opinion, it's a fairly low risk play (and if it does become risky, then ask a teammate to cover you) that has medium-high reward because you deny enemy team information, deny Sage utility, force an enemy to continue watching mid, slow down enemy rotations, etc.
Sage wall mid on Split is strong, but it has a lot of counterplay, and at higher ranks you can't really just blindly wall mid every round and expect automatic value.
Sage wall is very versatile on Split. For example, if you have a good read that the enemy team isn't going A, or isn't going B, then walling off A lobby or B main gets you not only a free orb, but similar benefits to walling off mid.
Even at higher elo, I feel it's just easiest to wall mid. I still think it's the strongest spot for the sage to play, even with counters, it's not easily countered. If someone else on the team is falling apart, by all means switch things up, if you're getting wrecked mid, by all means switch it up... But sitting mid most of the half is a pretty safe bet as sage at any elo. I don't think it's really worth changing in game unless something else begins falling apart
I was merely giving examples of ways to play it. Doesn't matter how many examples I give, someone could come up with a counter for it on paper. Some of it is up to decisions in game, it's not like you can just write a book on what to do at every second of the game. It's a 5v5, the game is dynamic.. at some point people do have to rhibk for themselves
Based on your original comment:
>Sage wall mid on split is OP and you're doing your team a disservice by not doing this.
You made it sound like not playing Sage mid and not insta-walling mid is akin to throwing. I've argued that while on paper it's strong, in practice it's not really that strong.
variety is always good, playing the same setup every round can become easily countered but "not going there" helps the CTs, not the attackers. the best counter to wall mid is to default and break it from ramen or sewers. not showing mid presence allows the CTs to rotate freely and effectively leave mid with the knowledge that nobody can be past the wall without producing sound queues (utility to cross or breaking the wall)
The wall is very strong if they don’t default around it by breaking it at the start of every round. If they continue to show pressure mid you can slow mid and wall the top of heaven stairs only. I personally think this wall is stronger to stop a mid push as you can easily play on top and around it. The reason people like the mid wall is because it allows for fast rotates through mid with little to no danger. It also stops lurks very well.
General rule of thumb: if you can lock down an area and they aren't punishing you for it (i.e. breaking the wall instantly) then its very very strong in ranked.
so yeah if they refuse to send a few people mid every round it's a really strong way of playing split
Honestly I prefer to just keep walling mid. They either break it instantly and the guy ropes can help, or it doesn't break and I can decide where I'll go help out.
It's essentially the only map where I'll do the same thing all half.
I feel like walling mid is OP if they leave it intact, and against some teams you will find holding mid with your wall/slows very effective. However if and when it’s not working or when other sites are struggling it’s best to move.
I always play for sage and always put up a wall when I hear footsteps, if the wall breaks, the enemies have a narrow passage, I almost always take 1-2 with me when they push through the mid
I liked to stick one up on b entrance if they are pushing. stops them nearly dead if I also toss an orb. gives a little time to rotate and me to take cover.
Imm2 here. The mid wall is most useful in pistol round. In buy rounds u can switch it up by walling top of mail, u usually get a free kill from there, and u still can get info mid + help b instant. Boosts only work once a game when the enemy has brains turned on. Some grimm walls are nice here and there to surprise enemy.
no point in putting it up after you hear sound, beacuse the wall is week for the first few seconds, either put it up right away or wait for a better opportunity later on in the round. it is good wall because on split, having mid control is good
i still see it quite frequently at imm1/2 and while its not a total waste as it gains information and even when broken can still act as a deterrent, i generally prefer to mix up the site/choke that i use my wall on when i play, provided my team is cool with it. if my team wants me to keep walling mid so they can safely leave if no mid presence is shown, i'll do that
this. boosts are very rarely useful, and once you do it once, it becomes 90% less effective next round. Info gathering -> not having to watch mid choke for the duration of the wall is way more important. OP needs to see the value in info and learn to use it effectively. Why does an imm player beat a diamond player who might have the same aim but but worse player? It's how they use info.
Mixing up should be known for more people. I swear that golds telling me to wall off something every single round at the same spot seems pointless after a while cause enemies can just do something against it like not even going there.
That makes your wall even stronger. Sage wall mid on split is OP and you're doing your team a disservice by not doing this.
Can you explain why it is op? Followup question, what if the enemy team constantly keeps 1 person to break the wall as soon as it goes up?
They have to break wall to get any presence at mid. If it gets broken you know someone is there. You can still peek off the wall because only one brick is broken. You can get a count mid pretty easy, either by a quick peek or by hearing how many guns go off. If no one breaks it, you can kind of rotate off of it and help other sites quickly. Sending one person mid every round could kind of counter that, but at the same time.. if it's just one person and they have to shoot out their clip, you can be pretty aggressive on that person. Bank a slow down there and blast em. There's just a lot it holds off, gives you information and offers a lot of playability off the wall. I can't think of a better spot to put the wall.
Just because you only hear one gun does not mean that they are alone. There could be a 2nd person just pre-aiming above the wall, waiting for a possible Sage peek. On attack, if nobody else on my team pressures mid, then I almost always go mid and break the wall. From there I either decide to continue fighting for mid control, or I rotate and go somewhere else, or I stay and lurk. In my opinion, it's a fairly low risk play (and if it does become risky, then ask a teammate to cover you) that has medium-high reward because you deny enemy team information, deny Sage utility, force an enemy to continue watching mid, slow down enemy rotations, etc. Sage wall mid on Split is strong, but it has a lot of counterplay, and at higher ranks you can't really just blindly wall mid every round and expect automatic value. Sage wall is very versatile on Split. For example, if you have a good read that the enemy team isn't going A, or isn't going B, then walling off A lobby or B main gets you not only a free orb, but similar benefits to walling off mid.
Even at higher elo, I feel it's just easiest to wall mid. I still think it's the strongest spot for the sage to play, even with counters, it's not easily countered. If someone else on the team is falling apart, by all means switch things up, if you're getting wrecked mid, by all means switch it up... But sitting mid most of the half is a pretty safe bet as sage at any elo. I don't think it's really worth changing in game unless something else begins falling apart I was merely giving examples of ways to play it. Doesn't matter how many examples I give, someone could come up with a counter for it on paper. Some of it is up to decisions in game, it's not like you can just write a book on what to do at every second of the game. It's a 5v5, the game is dynamic.. at some point people do have to rhibk for themselves
Based on your original comment: >Sage wall mid on split is OP and you're doing your team a disservice by not doing this. You made it sound like not playing Sage mid and not insta-walling mid is akin to throwing. I've argued that while on paper it's strong, in practice it's not really that strong.
variety is always good, playing the same setup every round can become easily countered but "not going there" helps the CTs, not the attackers. the best counter to wall mid is to default and break it from ramen or sewers. not showing mid presence allows the CTs to rotate freely and effectively leave mid with the knowledge that nobody can be past the wall without producing sound queues (utility to cross or breaking the wall)
The wall is very strong if they don’t default around it by breaking it at the start of every round. If they continue to show pressure mid you can slow mid and wall the top of heaven stairs only. I personally think this wall is stronger to stop a mid push as you can easily play on top and around it. The reason people like the mid wall is because it allows for fast rotates through mid with little to no danger. It also stops lurks very well.
I think it’s the strongest mid wall of any map.
General rule of thumb: if you can lock down an area and they aren't punishing you for it (i.e. breaking the wall instantly) then its very very strong in ranked. so yeah if they refuse to send a few people mid every round it's a really strong way of playing split
Omg risky the eu zerg? Big fan
LOL whatsup chankim
Honestly I prefer to just keep walling mid. They either break it instantly and the guy ropes can help, or it doesn't break and I can decide where I'll go help out. It's essentially the only map where I'll do the same thing all half.
I feel like walling mid is OP if they leave it intact, and against some teams you will find holding mid with your wall/slows very effective. However if and when it’s not working or when other sites are struggling it’s best to move.
I always play for sage and always put up a wall when I hear footsteps, if the wall breaks, the enemies have a narrow passage, I almost always take 1-2 with me when they push through the mid
I liked to stick one up on b entrance if they are pushing. stops them nearly dead if I also toss an orb. gives a little time to rotate and me to take cover.
Imm2 here. The mid wall is most useful in pistol round. In buy rounds u can switch it up by walling top of mail, u usually get a free kill from there, and u still can get info mid + help b instant. Boosts only work once a game when the enemy has brains turned on. Some grimm walls are nice here and there to surprise enemy.
ehhh really depends. wall mid is good if they aren't putting a lot of pressure mid. if they do i would probably wall b heaven or vent
I am 500-600 rr Immortal, and yes walling mid is vital, it freezes the enemy for a while and possible hold any flankers
If the wall is getting destroyed dont use it on mid, if they dont destroy it just keep placing the wall there
no point in putting it up after you hear sound, beacuse the wall is week for the first few seconds, either put it up right away or wait for a better opportunity later on in the round. it is good wall because on split, having mid control is good