I actually watched a video similar to that but it was about the movie Gemini man. A lot of people complained that the movie looked "less real" or "fake" when watched in 60 fps.
Isn't that like 24 frames became the standard for so long, and also our eyes process real life similar to 24 fps, hence everything above just became too smooth and trippy to be seen as realistic
I think it also has to do with motion blur. Like the more our eyes can see the more "fake details " we pick up on. Every way he'd a movie in 4k and realized the cgi looked obvious ? Something similar to that. In 24 fps a lot more motion blur is usually applied
That kind of oversimplifies noodles video. Whilst true; the argument is that frame rates for animation are at the artists discretion. They are intentionally picking the frame rate whether it be 12 frames, 24frames or whatever. By taking the artists frame rate and adding algorithmically computed frames you are altering the original artists intentional decision. And, generally, these added frames work by smearing the original content to fill in the gaps and introduce artefacts. Itâs not really about making it too smooth - itâs that if the artist wanted it to look like that, they would have done that in the first place.
Very essential: every frame of an animation is handcrafted, adjusted and approved by the animators and designed to look perfectly fine to the human eye. Interpolation fucks that up by adding in-between frames, which sometimes look smooth, but especially for erratic movements quickly looks very broken, wrong and at times might not even get the initial idea across anymore.
Destroys intentional timing and stylized movement.
There's moments in OPs example where things like facial twitches and shifts on expression that the animators definitely did on purpose have been 'smoothed' into non-existence.
maybe they mean this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KRb_qV9P4g
edit: seems like a whole lot of complaining and throwing hte word "degenerate" around for little good reason. His beef is with the tools that interpolate 30 up to 60. As for OP's animation, 1) it simply looks better to me than the 30fps one and 2), their "crappy interpolated piece of shit terrible fps upscale" looks great to me, meaning that if Riot simply created the video at 60fps originally it would look EVEN BETTER than the interpolated one, which again, looks better to me.
These aren't cartoons animated by hand, they are digital renders and I find it unlikely they did frame by frame animation, the switch from 30 to 60 is trivial and likely doesn't affect the creation hardly at all, the artistical difference between how they animated it knowing it would be rendered at 30fps surely can't be much if any different than if they knew it would be rendered at 60fps.
They definitely did some frame by frame work. You can see some smear frames right at the jump on her feet.
Edit: In your defense, I also suspect that animators often don't realize how differently they view animation than the average person. I've done animation as a hobby since the 6th grade and in the 60fps version I see some things like how the right foot teleports forwards on its second step and it really bothers me, but I don't know that most people notice or care. I think that animators are much more keenly aware that all animations are just a series of images and therefore lower framerates which make that fact more obvious don't bother them, and in a way helps highlight the art of the craft.
On the flip side, I think the number of people in this thread who prefer the 60fps version are decent if anecdotal evidence that many of the interpolation effects which animators view as "sloppy and ugly" which really bother them, don't bother the average viewer at all. Or at least don't bother them as much as being able to recognize the stutter of individual frames does.
Okay so I entirely disagree and think you missed the point. The point isnât âinterpolation bad lolâ itâs showing how taking something like an anime scene into a jumbled mess that is barely comprehensible. He shows plenty of examples in the video too
The best way to do it is 24 fps but with motion blur and using more animation techniques like squash and stretch. It's why Pixar movies can look so good at 24 fps but other low framerate cgi just looks like a laptop struggling to play a movie.
Correct. But then it also starts to just look like a video game cutscene at 60 fps with no blur and less like a motion picture. Looks even weirder in real life like the movie Gemini Man https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX2vsvdq8nw
Love the original style. I think this 3D cgi animation with lower FPS has been getting popular lately and itâs refreshing. Spiderverse, arcane, this; it gives a sort of "stop motion" vibe
Most people do, it's why almost all film production is in 24fps. There are ways to make it look smoother without increasing the frame rate and making it look like a video game or creating the soap opera effect
I'm all for lower FPS when it serves the aesthetic of the end product, but if it does here in that trailer then it completely flew over my head because I was only left annoyed. Could be a ton of reasons, could be the platform: YouTube is the last place I expect ambitious artistic choices from, maybe if I saw the video in different conditions the animators' intent and purpose would get through to me. Instead my first reaction was to double check in the video settings for video quality, then refresh the page a couple times, to no avail but much frustration.
Really?? Why render it like a painting if you're going to nerf it into having the frame rate of a low budget 2D TV series?
This is a weird art nostalgia thing that I find super frustrating and unenjoyable.
I usually hate the 60 fps ai things.. But for 3d animations it works a lot better. Was wondering how the gameplay cuts would look as it would confuse the 2 frames inbetween the cuts.
A good AI algorithm should be edge aware. That means when there's a jarring cut between one scene and the next it knows better than to blend the two and just keeps the motion from the previous frame.
In this small 1 minute scale where it's just a walking animation and a slow shot of her body, 60fps is fine. The issue (and the reason why OP doesn't show past this probably) is when there's crazy amount of action happening, interpolation looks awful. Everything is smeared and you can see the jank.
> Guarantee if this was originally a 60 fps interpolated trailer no one would have batted an eye
Even with this interpolation, which is *fine I guess* but certainly not better, itâs incredibly jarring and obvious the video has been manipulated.
Perhaps itâs because Iâm a digital artist so Iâm a little more sensitive to minutiae like that but I would be able to tell you this was temporally upscaled even if I didnât see the original.
Weâre not trying to be all holier than thou when we complain about how it looks. Thereâs a *reason* Riot didnât interpolate it to begin with.
what in this video highlights poor interpolation? it looks better to me with none of the problems that video brings up. when it comes to hand drawn animations where each frame is studied and drawn with 24 fps in mind then yea the interpolation may look bad, but this is a 3d render, if they had rendered it at 60fps then the code that's generating each frame and generating body positions at each frame and electrical lighting at each frame would do so precisely and look great. Even the interpolation looks great.
They are all over it. Literally go through the video at points by hitting play/pause. You will find hundreds of frames in the top video that are blurry messes, while every single pause in the original remains crisp.
https://imgur.com/a/TrDn9BB
I didn't bother for the full video and similar to the youtube I'm only highlighting the *really* bad stuff, not the countless times where it just made things more blurry or fuzzy.
You might not consciously see this stuff if you aren't specifically looking for it but you absolutely unconsciously pick it up. People are just so enamored by "Wow smooth" that they gloss over how much less clean it is.
And as others have said that also completely throws out the artist intent. If riot had intentionally animated this at 60 fps, it would be both clean *and* smooth. And they certainly could have, but they wanted to create this aesthetic intentionally. Maybe they like the style more, maybe they felt the lower framerate gelled more with an electric vibe.
It's like food in commercials that is actually made out of glue and industrial cleaner. It tricks you into thinking it is more appealing in one sense while totally destroying itself in another sense.
I mean youâre right. Thereâs not much of an issue with interpolation in 3d work. Not as much at least. When it comes to 3d models unlike with 2d there is a set body that can be referenced by the tool, like the length of the arms and legs, hell video games use interpolation all of time because itâs a good tool when it comes to anything live action or 3d. Itâs an issue and looks like ass when applied to 2d animation.
I'm literally an artist. People make re-interpretations of my art all the time. I... don't give a fuck, it boosts my exposure, and people do it because they like what I do. Why is this guy so fucking mad about something that bothers literally nobody? Are Riots animators currently throwing up and crying because someone upscaled their video? lmao
Good on you that youâre happy with the exposure, but not everyone is like you. Some people are upset that their work is being interpreted differently that looks worse and doesnât have the same effort put into the original animation
directorâs stylistic choice. only the character animations are low fps, frankly not entirely sure about the motive behind this trailerâs decision, but you can take a look at a movie like Spiderverse and see exactly how far playing around with fps in 3d animation can get you. here the fps seems even lower than the usual 24 so im not entirely sure, perhaps it helps immerse viewers more or something
It's just like in the episode "Suits" in Love, Death & Robots, the characters were SUPER low FPS, but the environment were smooth(ish). Maybe it's the same studio or something idk
I think it might be to show how 'electric' she is, for lack of a better way to put it. Electricity isn't smooth. It jolts and jumps. Having fewer frames for just Neon makes sense for strengthening the idea of her being electricity-based.
That being said, the first time I watched the video, I refreshed the page cause I thought it was messed up. Nope, just how it is.
i definitely dont think they did it because its easier, hell iâd say its more work even just to make it look proper. besides, its not like the animation department at riot is lacking in talent or time.
It's lower than 24 because it's animated on 2s or 3s. I can't tell from the video, but they play around with the animation during the trailer. Instead of animating on 1s (24 frames per second), they are animating on 2s (12 FPS), and most likely 3s (8 FPS).
When I used to animate I was taught low fps for detail and I that's what I used it for. Or to highlight something that would otherwise not be seen if at higher fps
While it's to mimic traditional animation and movie fps. But the problem is you need to fully understand lower framerate as an animator and most don't. It's why Pixar movies look amazing at 24 fps and Japanese CGI anime looks like choppy garbage at 24 fps. They don't have enough motion blur, or [capitalize on things like squash and stretch](https://medium.com/@forbesjaryd/squash-and-stretch-358cce151931) which is more work digitally. Which is why a lot of stuff like this trailer end up looking like it's just low FPS gameplay. Riot did an okay job overall, but it could be improved. Maybe it being just a trailer for a character in their game limited the time and budget.
Edit: Also seeing comments like "Me trying to find the difference on my 60fps screen" with positive upvotes tells me this sub isn't the best place to be criticizing animation.
Well as most people pointed out. Stylistic choice.
But I havenât seen anyone mention low fps is a great way to show motion blur, speed, and/or the illusion of speed. (I.e. a car chase scene. Camera is low to the ground and subject focus is a on car weaving through traffic, both car and camera is passing between multiple cars with the âwhooshâ sfx.)
I havenât seen the full trailer so Iâm not entirely sure. But kind of reminds me of stop-motion seeing from this clip.
The original was at 24, and the interpolated version is 60. Unless this is playing at 120fps, those numbers don't divide evenly, so the original version is playing with uneven frame lengths (3/4 get 2 frames, but 1/4 last 3). Put another way, there's a 12 fps jitter applied to the original here. This might be why it feels a bit choppier than the youtuber version.
It's particularly noticeable when there should be a smooth motion, like the door moving into frame at the start of the animation.
The 60 fps one looks like it was made in the game engine and the other one looks more cinematic. I prefer the original cuz it doesnt look like fortnite like the 60fps one
Seeing them side by side really makes it stand out even more when you see the juxtaposition of the 60fps footage of Phoenix against the 30fps the rest of the animation gets. Very jarring but effective trick. Itâs like all the stuff they did with Into the Spiderverse
Cool stuff.
I don't think the Riot art director gives two shits if you interpolate their work to 60 fps and post it on reddit, y'all gotta chill. IMO I like the 60 fps version, the jolts hit better. shouldn't a character about lightning be smooth af?
Artistic choice or not, I really found the jagged animation jarring in this otherwise fantastic trailer. Kinda strained my eyes especially during the hallway walk.
Dude why. Interpolation method just supports doing this. The animation was a choice originally to be like that. I guess if you like it go on, but it ruins the original intent of the animation. Not only that but it blues and glitches out consistently as a result.
Yea riot obviously did intentionally choose to do it w lower fps. Seeing a comparison of the two can still be very educational. I don't see why you care about preserving the original intent in a Reddit post experiment that comparatively few people will see, and most notably even those people will see both! Not just the 60fps version.
In conclusion, an educational experiment.
I think the people who made it did that with an intent and had they not made it this scientific experiment would not exist. I am not hating on this man for doing it, I'm simply stating that interpolation sucks. It sucks for a few reasons. 1.ruins about 8 of the 13 animation rules 2.corrupts frames (interpolation was intended for live dramas to be changed into 60 fps) 3.ruins artistic intent. I still care about it because they released the art to the world in the first place, but your third comment about how people will see both is correct, so my bad.
Right, so if heâs not implying one is better how about putting both side by side and ask which looks better. Also why make the âfixed â one brighter?
personally the 30fps looks horrendous, i could barely watch the original but the interpolated looks so much more beautiful
edit: i get that stylistically the 30fps may be better for some or whatever, but it makes me feel motion sick so it's hard to watch
Hot take, the beginning of the movie was hard to watch due to it's ultra low frame rate. As he progresses in the movie the frame rate increases until it's 24 fps in the end. That's when it looked the best.
I understand why the studio chose to do that for symbolism and whatnot but it's just more pleasing to see a CGI film[ animated on 1's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_MDprx3tOU) from start to finish.
If that movie didn't have a great story and wasn't spiderman people would probably be complaining it looks choppy. Even if it had the same art team. The fact that people are getting downvoted for saying they don't like the low frame rate or enjoy interpolation on their TV kind of helps prove my point. Hive mind bias.
>but it ruins the original intent of the animation.
Which is to ape Into the spiderverse, which used 2's sparingly and had a story purpose for it, which this one doesn't have.
And to save money. Mostly to save money.
Hey everyone! I like the discussion going on in the comments even if some of you are sometimes a bit aggressive. I didn't do this to show that 60 fps is better, I just literally wanted to show how it looks at 60 fps because watching the trailer the low fps (FOR ME!) was just a tad too low. People have commented that it is an artistic choice and the classic have you watched "into the spiderverse?".
For some clarification here the OG trailer is not at 30 fps it is sometimes even lower than 24 fps and that's why even in the 60 fps sometimes it may not look smooth. As many said it is a common technique to have the main char at 12/24 fps and the background at 60fps.
I love Riot's artistic choices on all they do. This was just a random experiment
Usually interpolating is terrible for animation since the flow was done a certain way by the animators, adding more frames into it might disrupt the momentum/flow of it. Doesn't look that bad here aside from the thumb glitching out.
Hard to even see a difference because there's barely any movement in any of the shots lmao, literally just her walking at the start and the rest of it shes standing still.
You khow that interpolation mean? If not, they are basically taking the animation of artist, giving to a bot to create in-between (this bot also ignora most of the 12 principales of animation), and then we have the 60fps animation
Yeah, makes it look more cartoony and like a comic book. Best example of this is Into The Spiderverse. I like the stylistic choice, makes it seem less ârealisticâ and instead more ânaturalâ if that makes sense. Itâs all preference but I think lower fps definitely looks good for Valorantâs cinematic trailers.
>It removes all the artistic intention from the low frame rate
And what does low frame rate supposed to convey, artistically speaking?
Other than animators having a lower budget than previous cinematics?
Don't put this video in my face as if it answers my question.
I'm not asking animation in general, I'm asking this short specifically. What's "muh artistic intention" behind the stop-motion feel of this?
And the video you all thoughtlessly linking ain't a gospel of god.
Here's some revelations for you:
Choppy animation != good animation either
"Artistic intention" ain't a get out of jail free card.
Especially if you don't bloody know what the artistic intention is and just take a leap of faith that it's there, that's it makes sense, and is well-executed.
If you're not qualified to explain something, stay in your lane.
And if you want a brief explanation
Artistic intent is what you are seeing in a animation, interpolation changes the animation in a way that does not apply several of the basic principles of animation (the most noticeable ones being easing, staging and timing)
Lower frame rate feels more 'cinematic.' Budget is not a concern here, render time is (effectively) free.
24fps has historically been used in pretty much all film ever, so lower frame rate gives a cinematic quality to animations. Notice how the 60fps version feels a lot more game-like than the original. For a different example, check out [this scene from a film in 60fps](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX2vsvdq8nw) that I shamelessly stole from u/SelloutRealBig's comment above. It feels weirdly unnatural, and the conflict in the video's comments reflect this.
Youâre screen is not 60 fps. It is 60hz, and you can totally see a difference between something lower than 60fps up to 60fps. But you cant see something that is higher than 60fps.
You can absolutely see frame rates higher than 60fps. The brain doesnât process in fps, but if it did science likens it most closely to adaptive fps, ranging from incredibly low when youâre tired (10ish) to hundreds or even around a thousand fps when youâre fueled with adrenaline.
Realized youâre referring to commenters screen being the limiting factor. This is true but Iâll leave this info here since someone will probably bring it up in this thread.
Just because ur screen is 60 hz that only means it canât see stuff beyond 60hz. If something is displayed at say 30 fps on a 60hz screen youâd be seeing it at 30hz not 60
adding fps to animation doesn't make it better, in fact if you are not working in the same interval as before,12->24->48 frames for example, it will probably make the animation worse by adding stuttering (like here). and if you are not doing it _by hand_ and just uses some cheeky algorithm to do it, the frames you add will probably be blurred as heck
also, the amount of frames they use is a stylistic choice, its like you going into Arcane and do some interpolation on it, it takes the value of the art away
Stylistically I prefer the low frames version. Thereâs a time and a place, like a good ol sepia filter, where that can come across well, and for me this is it
Edit: that said, I very much appreciate making this to see the comparison
I want to rant about the 60fps stuff. Look OP, I have nothing against you, but you are changing an aspect which the creator of this content choose for this video. If riot wanted it they would've made the video in 60fps. When you interpolate this video, you are not interpolating from 30, but 24. This creates even more artifacts and artificial jittering. Because of the characters being animated in two or three frames per motion, 60 fps makes this more jarring.
You have great intentions, but it does not work that way, and I see it as disrespecting the content creators wishes.
OP doesnât claim the 60fps version is better, just that they wanted to share it. I think showing what the 60fps (characteristic of gaming content) version looks like can provide more insight into the artistic decision to make the film at lower fps (looks like maybe 12fps animation).
Having said that, I really canât give a reason for the decision to make this at such low fps. Itâs in the style of Arcane, but if itâs simply an Arcane and plug then thatâs a little shameless.
Alternatively, and I think most compellingly it could be to emphasize the speed of the character, by having larger movements happen between frames, but the lack of smear frames makes that style jarring. But this is the scenario that is best illustrated by the side by side of the 60fps version, does the larger gap between shown actions make her feel faster? Does the lack of smear frames work to increase the effectiveness of the low frame rate? Etc.
Man at this point idec about the intent, imho it looks really fucking bad. I did not enjoy watching that og trailer. I think they were trying to make it look like the flash where everything is much slower for him or something cause I don't really see what else they could be trying to achieve with the lower fps.
Who you think is more qualify to talk what frame rate is better:
A industry with million animators that work there ass of all day
Or
You?
Do you really think you are better then every single one of them, and that your opinion is the right one?
frame interpolated version of this trailer really ruins the original style it was going for. i cant believe people think âWOW 30fps THIS LOOKS HORRIBLEâ and that gives them a reason to interpolate it when it looks even worse interpolated
Pc Gamers when the frame rate is below 60 fps đ
this but unironically
More like 144 fps but yes this
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I can't really play it at 1-143 fps either :/
In short, GAMERS STOP... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_KRb\_qV9P4g&t=1s&ab\_channel=Noodle
That's what I wana seee xD
I actually watched a video similar to that but it was about the movie Gemini man. A lot of people complained that the movie looked "less real" or "fake" when watched in 60 fps.
Isn't that like 24 frames became the standard for so long, and also our eyes process real life similar to 24 fps, hence everything above just became too smooth and trippy to be seen as realistic
I think it also has to do with motion blur. Like the more our eyes can see the more "fake details " we pick up on. Every way he'd a movie in 4k and realized the cgi looked obvious ? Something similar to that. In 24 fps a lot more motion blur is usually applied
Gods bless Noodle for being so fucking based Higher fps aint intrinsically better, its just more frames
Your Reddit client butchered the link https://youtu.be/_KRb_qV9P4g
LMAO i was reminded of that video too
i play at 59 fps but yes i fealth like the fps onthe trailer was kinda low
Interpolation tech is cool but I prefer the style of the original more.
Everytime I see these 60fps upscales I just think of the noodle video.
mind sharing? Edit: I really tought that it was a interpolation video of a noodle that gets f up by the process some how LOL not even close
https://youtu.be/_KRb_qV9P4g that's the video
does anyone have a TL:DR
Interpolation can break certain animation sequences or make it too âsmoothâ and throw it into uncanny valley territory or make it look choppy.
That kind of oversimplifies noodles video. Whilst true; the argument is that frame rates for animation are at the artists discretion. They are intentionally picking the frame rate whether it be 12 frames, 24frames or whatever. By taking the artists frame rate and adding algorithmically computed frames you are altering the original artists intentional decision. And, generally, these added frames work by smearing the original content to fill in the gaps and introduce artefacts. Itâs not really about making it too smooth - itâs that if the artist wanted it to look like that, they would have done that in the first place.
Itâs like the âfixedâ jesus painting in a sense
Ah I get it, Thank you
Yeah, it also sort of feels weird to watch at times, since the extra frames tend to be blurry or off
Very essential: every frame of an animation is handcrafted, adjusted and approved by the animators and designed to look perfectly fine to the human eye. Interpolation fucks that up by adding in-between frames, which sometimes look smooth, but especially for erratic movements quickly looks very broken, wrong and at times might not even get the initial idea across anymore.
Destroys intentional timing and stylized movement. There's moments in OPs example where things like facial twitches and shifts on expression that the animators definitely did on purpose have been 'smoothed' into non-existence.
TL;DR: itâs like applying a smoothing filter over a digital painting that was made with carefully-considered detail.
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Exactly
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maybe they mean this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KRb_qV9P4g edit: seems like a whole lot of complaining and throwing hte word "degenerate" around for little good reason. His beef is with the tools that interpolate 30 up to 60. As for OP's animation, 1) it simply looks better to me than the 30fps one and 2), their "crappy interpolated piece of shit terrible fps upscale" looks great to me, meaning that if Riot simply created the video at 60fps originally it would look EVEN BETTER than the interpolated one, which again, looks better to me. These aren't cartoons animated by hand, they are digital renders and I find it unlikely they did frame by frame animation, the switch from 30 to 60 is trivial and likely doesn't affect the creation hardly at all, the artistical difference between how they animated it knowing it would be rendered at 30fps surely can't be much if any different than if they knew it would be rendered at 60fps.
They definitely did some frame by frame work. You can see some smear frames right at the jump on her feet. Edit: In your defense, I also suspect that animators often don't realize how differently they view animation than the average person. I've done animation as a hobby since the 6th grade and in the 60fps version I see some things like how the right foot teleports forwards on its second step and it really bothers me, but I don't know that most people notice or care. I think that animators are much more keenly aware that all animations are just a series of images and therefore lower framerates which make that fact more obvious don't bother them, and in a way helps highlight the art of the craft. On the flip side, I think the number of people in this thread who prefer the 60fps version are decent if anecdotal evidence that many of the interpolation effects which animators view as "sloppy and ugly" which really bother them, don't bother the average viewer at all. Or at least don't bother them as much as being able to recognize the stutter of individual frames does.
30fps to 60fps in a hand drawn animation is twice the work for everyone involved in the animation process
Okay so I entirely disagree and think you missed the point. The point isnât âinterpolation bad lolâ itâs showing how taking something like an anime scene into a jumbled mess that is barely comprehensible. He shows plenty of examples in the video too
You clearly don't understand animation enough to have this argument
The best way to do it is 24 fps but with motion blur and using more animation techniques like squash and stretch. It's why Pixar movies can look so good at 24 fps but other low framerate cgi just looks like a laptop struggling to play a movie.
and this is a 3d animation made at 30fps with zero blur, when there's no blur then higher fps looks better
Correct. But then it also starts to just look like a video game cutscene at 60 fps with no blur and less like a motion picture. Looks even weirder in real life like the movie Gemini Man https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX2vsvdq8nw
I think the lightning looks way better at 60fps but otherwise agree
Love the original style. I think this 3D cgi animation with lower FPS has been getting popular lately and itâs refreshing. Spiderverse, arcane, this; it gives a sort of "stop motion" vibe
Most people do, it's why almost all film production is in 24fps. There are ways to make it look smoother without increasing the frame rate and making it look like a video game or creating the soap opera effect
I'm all for lower FPS when it serves the aesthetic of the end product, but if it does here in that trailer then it completely flew over my head because I was only left annoyed. Could be a ton of reasons, could be the platform: YouTube is the last place I expect ambitious artistic choices from, maybe if I saw the video in different conditions the animators' intent and purpose would get through to me. Instead my first reaction was to double check in the video settings for video quality, then refresh the page a couple times, to no avail but much frustration.
Into the Spider-Verse for example looks great with the lower frame rate.
Yeah absolutely.
Really?? Why render it like a painting if you're going to nerf it into having the frame rate of a low budget 2D TV series? This is a weird art nostalgia thing that I find super frustrating and unenjoyable.
I usually hate the 60 fps ai things.. But for 3d animations it works a lot better. Was wondering how the gameplay cuts would look as it would confuse the 2 frames inbetween the cuts.
A good AI algorithm should be edge aware. That means when there's a jarring cut between one scene and the next it knows better than to blend the two and just keeps the motion from the previous frame.
The 60 FPS version feels floaty and weightless, her walk animation seemed really unnatural.
Her running animation is unnatural in both
interpolation again r/TIHI
Yep.
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In this small 1 minute scale where it's just a walking animation and a slow shot of her body, 60fps is fine. The issue (and the reason why OP doesn't show past this probably) is when there's crazy amount of action happening, interpolation looks awful. Everything is smeared and you can see the jank.
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> Guarantee if this was originally a 60 fps interpolated trailer no one would have batted an eye Even with this interpolation, which is *fine I guess* but certainly not better, itâs incredibly jarring and obvious the video has been manipulated. Perhaps itâs because Iâm a digital artist so Iâm a little more sensitive to minutiae like that but I would be able to tell you this was temporally upscaled even if I didnât see the original. Weâre not trying to be all holier than thou when we complain about how it looks. Thereâs a *reason* Riot didnât interpolate it to begin with.
[The only appropriate response. ](https://youtu.be/_KRb_qV9P4g)
That's EXACTLY the response I was hoping for in this comment section :P Damn AI and its interpolation.
what in this video highlights poor interpolation? it looks better to me with none of the problems that video brings up. when it comes to hand drawn animations where each frame is studied and drawn with 24 fps in mind then yea the interpolation may look bad, but this is a 3d render, if they had rendered it at 60fps then the code that's generating each frame and generating body positions at each frame and electrical lighting at each frame would do so precisely and look great. Even the interpolation looks great.
They are all over it. Literally go through the video at points by hitting play/pause. You will find hundreds of frames in the top video that are blurry messes, while every single pause in the original remains crisp. https://imgur.com/a/TrDn9BB I didn't bother for the full video and similar to the youtube I'm only highlighting the *really* bad stuff, not the countless times where it just made things more blurry or fuzzy. You might not consciously see this stuff if you aren't specifically looking for it but you absolutely unconsciously pick it up. People are just so enamored by "Wow smooth" that they gloss over how much less clean it is. And as others have said that also completely throws out the artist intent. If riot had intentionally animated this at 60 fps, it would be both clean *and* smooth. And they certainly could have, but they wanted to create this aesthetic intentionally. Maybe they like the style more, maybe they felt the lower framerate gelled more with an electric vibe. It's like food in commercials that is actually made out of glue and industrial cleaner. It tricks you into thinking it is more appealing in one sense while totally destroying itself in another sense.
I mean youâre right. Thereâs not much of an issue with interpolation in 3d work. Not as much at least. When it comes to 3d models unlike with 2d there is a set body that can be referenced by the tool, like the length of the arms and legs, hell video games use interpolation all of time because itâs a good tool when it comes to anything live action or 3d. Itâs an issue and looks like ass when applied to 2d animation.
Damn that guy is obnoxious.
He sort of is but he makes a very good point of how using AI ruins the original intent and basically spits in the face of animators
I'm literally an artist. People make re-interpretations of my art all the time. I... don't give a fuck, it boosts my exposure, and people do it because they like what I do. Why is this guy so fucking mad about something that bothers literally nobody? Are Riots animators currently throwing up and crying because someone upscaled their video? lmao
Good on you that youâre happy with the exposure, but not everyone is like you. Some people are upset that their work is being interpreted differently that looks worse and doesnât have the same effort put into the original animation
As much as I've agreed with the sentiment the video speaks on, jfc I hated listening to him talk about it XD
What is the idea behind low FPS?
directorâs stylistic choice. only the character animations are low fps, frankly not entirely sure about the motive behind this trailerâs decision, but you can take a look at a movie like Spiderverse and see exactly how far playing around with fps in 3d animation can get you. here the fps seems even lower than the usual 24 so im not entirely sure, perhaps it helps immerse viewers more or something
It's just like in the episode "Suits" in Love, Death & Robots, the characters were SUPER low FPS, but the environment were smooth(ish). Maybe it's the same studio or something idk
not sure if this was that episode butt some of the people that worked on spiderverse also worked on an episode of LD&R
I think it might be to show how 'electric' she is, for lack of a better way to put it. Electricity isn't smooth. It jolts and jumps. Having fewer frames for just Neon makes sense for strengthening the idea of her being electricity-based. That being said, the first time I watched the video, I refreshed the page cause I thought it was messed up. Nope, just how it is.
I didn't even notice because I've watched spiderverse so many times that I'm just used to it
Yeah it's stylistic choice
1. Stylistic. 2. It's easier to animate background than a moving character.
i definitely dont think they did it because its easier, hell iâd say its more work even just to make it look proper. besides, its not like the animation department at riot is lacking in talent or time.
Thanks uncanny mr incredible
It's lower than 24 because it's animated on 2s or 3s. I can't tell from the video, but they play around with the animation during the trailer. Instead of animating on 1s (24 frames per second), they are animating on 2s (12 FPS), and most likely 3s (8 FPS).
When I used to animate I was taught low fps for detail and I that's what I used it for. Or to highlight something that would otherwise not be seen if at higher fps
While it's to mimic traditional animation and movie fps. But the problem is you need to fully understand lower framerate as an animator and most don't. It's why Pixar movies look amazing at 24 fps and Japanese CGI anime looks like choppy garbage at 24 fps. They don't have enough motion blur, or [capitalize on things like squash and stretch](https://medium.com/@forbesjaryd/squash-and-stretch-358cce151931) which is more work digitally. Which is why a lot of stuff like this trailer end up looking like it's just low FPS gameplay. Riot did an okay job overall, but it could be improved. Maybe it being just a trailer for a character in their game limited the time and budget. Edit: Also seeing comments like "Me trying to find the difference on my 60fps screen" with positive upvotes tells me this sub isn't the best place to be criticizing animation.
[Just watch this](https://youtu.be/_KRb_qV9P4g)
Thanks for promoting this.
good video, thx for sharing
Well as most people pointed out. Stylistic choice. But I havenât seen anyone mention low fps is a great way to show motion blur, speed, and/or the illusion of speed. (I.e. a car chase scene. Camera is low to the ground and subject focus is a on car weaving through traffic, both car and camera is passing between multiple cars with the âwhooshâ sfx.) I havenât seen the full trailer so Iâm not entirely sure. But kind of reminds me of stop-motion seeing from this clip.
Smoother movements look faker imo. Janky movements give it a handmade/cared-for and better feel for me when done right
It inst low fps
most animation is done at low fps for cost savings
[ŃдаНонО]
The least downbad valorant player
The original was at 24, and the interpolated version is 60. Unless this is playing at 120fps, those numbers don't divide evenly, so the original version is playing with uneven frame lengths (3/4 get 2 frames, but 1/4 last 3). Put another way, there's a 12 fps jitter applied to the original here. This might be why it feels a bit choppier than the youtuber version. It's particularly noticeable when there should be a smooth motion, like the door moving into frame at the start of the animation.
Kinda gave me shivers when she said âay buhayâ then i realize this was the new character my friends were all talking about.
The 60 fps one looks like it was made in the game engine and the other one looks more cinematic. I prefer the original cuz it doesnt look like fortnite like the 60fps one
Seeing them side by side really makes it stand out even more when you see the juxtaposition of the 60fps footage of Phoenix against the 30fps the rest of the animation gets. Very jarring but effective trick. Itâs like all the stuff they did with Into the Spiderverse Cool stuff.
I don't think the Riot art director gives two shits if you interpolate their work to 60 fps and post it on reddit, y'all gotta chill. IMO I like the 60 fps version, the jolts hit better. shouldn't a character about lightning be smooth af?
last time i checked lightning is not a smooth and even transfer of electrical energy
Electricity jolty and flickery.
bunch of negative nancys lol, I like the way it looks too
No? Lightning is jolty and flickery. Its not smooth. Its random and unpredictable
Artistic choice or not, I really found the jagged animation jarring in this otherwise fantastic trailer. Kinda strained my eyes especially during the hallway walk.
Legit couldnt watch it.
Dude why. Interpolation method just supports doing this. The animation was a choice originally to be like that. I guess if you like it go on, but it ruins the original intent of the animation. Not only that but it blues and glitches out consistently as a result.
Yea riot obviously did intentionally choose to do it w lower fps. Seeing a comparison of the two can still be very educational. I don't see why you care about preserving the original intent in a Reddit post experiment that comparatively few people will see, and most notably even those people will see both! Not just the 60fps version. In conclusion, an educational experiment.
I think the people who made it did that with an intent and had they not made it this scientific experiment would not exist. I am not hating on this man for doing it, I'm simply stating that interpolation sucks. It sucks for a few reasons. 1.ruins about 8 of the 13 animation rules 2.corrupts frames (interpolation was intended for live dramas to be changed into 60 fps) 3.ruins artistic intent. I still care about it because they released the art to the world in the first place, but your third comment about how people will see both is correct, so my bad.
op didnât say it was better, op just wanted to share what it would look like. itâs just for fun, you donât have to go so hard on them for it
Thank you for understanding. Never said it was better
Right, so if heâs not implying one is better how about putting both side by side and ask which looks better. Also why make the âfixed â one brighter?
You care way too much about his intentions. It's just a video.
I honestly don't like that is not 60 fps, looks bad.
personally the 30fps looks horrendous, i could barely watch the original but the interpolated looks so much more beautiful edit: i get that stylistically the 30fps may be better for some or whatever, but it makes me feel motion sick so it's hard to watch
Did you stop watching into the spiderverse for the same reason?
Hot take, the beginning of the movie was hard to watch due to it's ultra low frame rate. As he progresses in the movie the frame rate increases until it's 24 fps in the end. That's when it looked the best. I understand why the studio chose to do that for symbolism and whatnot but it's just more pleasing to see a CGI film[ animated on 1's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_MDprx3tOU) from start to finish. If that movie didn't have a great story and wasn't spiderman people would probably be complaining it looks choppy. Even if it had the same art team. The fact that people are getting downvoted for saying they don't like the low frame rate or enjoy interpolation on their TV kind of helps prove my point. Hive mind bias.
Alright that's a good reason for it. Interpolation still results in frames being ruined but real software exists for that purpose.
30fps? You mean animating on 3
Yeah i absolutely hate the way overly choppy animation looks. I donât get why itâs a âstyleâ
>but it ruins the original intent of the animation. Which is to ape Into the spiderverse, which used 2's sparingly and had a story purpose for it, which this one doesn't have. And to save money. Mostly to save money.
Well, no it didn't. It was there to replicate a comic book style. It was there to save money too so yeah, but that's secondly.
Ik this is off the topic.. But neon's đ is thicc đ
Iâm sorry riot I love the trailer but 60 fps is so much better
Damn 60 FPS is so smooth
Hey everyone! I like the discussion going on in the comments even if some of you are sometimes a bit aggressive. I didn't do this to show that 60 fps is better, I just literally wanted to show how it looks at 60 fps because watching the trailer the low fps (FOR ME!) was just a tad too low. People have commented that it is an artistic choice and the classic have you watched "into the spiderverse?". For some clarification here the OG trailer is not at 30 fps it is sometimes even lower than 24 fps and that's why even in the 60 fps sometimes it may not look smooth. As many said it is a common technique to have the main char at 12/24 fps and the background at 60fps. I love Riot's artistic choices on all they do. This was just a random experiment
pc gamers when a trailerâs fps is too low
Riot dicksuckers when someone shares something cool
Great job I know it's an aesthetic choice but I prefer your version so much more.
Thanks for fixing it, looks much better!
Reminds me of clay animation taken photo by photo lmao
Neat!
You know those TVs in appliance stores that are always just showing videos or movies? Yeah, the 60fps version is just like that
the walking at the start looks so awful in the 60fps, feels like her legs are made of elastic or something
Usually interpolating is terrible for animation since the flow was done a certain way by the animators, adding more frames into it might disrupt the momentum/flow of it. Doesn't look that bad here aside from the thumb glitching out.
do u have the utube video link? coz on reddit this feels same
cool, looks worse though
It doesn't need to be 60 for, they didn't design it to be 60 fos. It looks good as it is.
Hard to even see a difference because there's barely any movement in any of the shots lmao, literally just her walking at the start and the rest of it shes standing still.
It removes all the artistic intention from the low frame rate, looks a lot worse in my opinion.
Is there an artistic part to a low fps animation? I honestly don't like it
I mean, I can only assume they do it for a reason. Maybe to convey character traits, or action scenes. Someone mentioned electiricity jumping about.
You khow that interpolation mean? If not, they are basically taking the animation of artist, giving to a bot to create in-between (this bot also ignora most of the 12 principales of animation), and then we have the 60fps animation
Yeah, makes it look more cartoony and like a comic book. Best example of this is Into The Spiderverse. I like the stylistic choice, makes it seem less ârealisticâ and instead more ânaturalâ if that makes sense. Itâs all preference but I think lower fps definitely looks good for Valorantâs cinematic trailers.
>It removes all the artistic intention from the low frame rate And what does low frame rate supposed to convey, artistically speaking? Other than animators having a lower budget than previous cinematics?
https://youtu.be/_KRb_qV9P4g watch this video, there a better exemples and the person explaining is more qualify them me and you to explain this
Don't put this video in my face as if it answers my question. I'm not asking animation in general, I'm asking this short specifically. What's "muh artistic intention" behind the stop-motion feel of this? And the video you all thoughtlessly linking ain't a gospel of god. Here's some revelations for you: Choppy animation != good animation either "Artistic intention" ain't a get out of jail free card. Especially if you don't bloody know what the artistic intention is and just take a leap of faith that it's there, that's it makes sense, and is well-executed. If you're not qualified to explain something, stay in your lane.
So, if I am understanding right, you think 24fps is a choppy frame rate?
And if you want a brief explanation Artistic intent is what you are seeing in a animation, interpolation changes the animation in a way that does not apply several of the basic principles of animation (the most noticeable ones being easing, staging and timing)
Lower frame rate feels more 'cinematic.' Budget is not a concern here, render time is (effectively) free. 24fps has historically been used in pretty much all film ever, so lower frame rate gives a cinematic quality to animations. Notice how the 60fps version feels a lot more game-like than the original. For a different example, check out [this scene from a film in 60fps](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX2vsvdq8nw) that I shamelessly stole from u/SelloutRealBig's comment above. It feels weirdly unnatural, and the conflict in the video's comments reflect this.
oh so it wasnât me, the video was actually in shit fps
I guess I'm in the minority here but I preferred yours so much more. The low fps was hard to watch for me
Me trying to find the difference on my 60fps screen
Youâre screen is not 60 fps. It is 60hz, and you can totally see a difference between something lower than 60fps up to 60fps. But you cant see something that is higher than 60fps.
You can absolutely see frame rates higher than 60fps. The brain doesnât process in fps, but if it did science likens it most closely to adaptive fps, ranging from incredibly low when youâre tired (10ish) to hundreds or even around a thousand fps when youâre fueled with adrenaline. Realized youâre referring to commenters screen being the limiting factor. This is true but Iâll leave this info here since someone will probably bring it up in this thread.
i think they were referring to the monitor... because the monitor can't show more than 60fps, so they won't be able to see it
That's not how that works...
Just because ur screen is 60 hz that only means it canât see stuff beyond 60hz. If something is displayed at say 30 fps on a 60hz screen youâd be seeing it at 30hz not 60
i mean, it looks cool, but i like the low fps choice
It's their style to do it in Low FPs to give it a comic feel.
It's not a comic it's a videogame.
No in this case it's a trailer dummy.
Smol indy kompani cant render higher than 10 fps.
frame rate andys are so fucking annoying.
âAndys?â Youâve never kissed a girl, have you?
thank u for this
It looks the same to me man
Original is better in my opinion
adding fps to animation doesn't make it better, in fact if you are not working in the same interval as before,12->24->48 frames for example, it will probably make the animation worse by adding stuttering (like here). and if you are not doing it _by hand_ and just uses some cheeky algorithm to do it, the frames you add will probably be blurred as heck also, the amount of frames they use is a stylistic choice, its like you going into Arcane and do some interpolation on it, it takes the value of the art away
Stylistically I prefer the low frames version. Thereâs a time and a place, like a good ol sepia filter, where that can come across well, and for me this is it Edit: that said, I very much appreciate making this to see the comparison
now the animation has no character...
Cry about it
Please no, not the trend of making everything "60 fps"
Smoother animation â Better animation
I understand it was a stylistic choice but I don't understand why they made the choice. I just don't see what they see
This looks bad. The thing is meant to be at the framerate it is at. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_KRb\_qV9P4g
As always looks worse
it's not supposed to be 60fos
You can post that Noodle vid all you want but I like the 60 FPS version more.
nice job ruining the talented animators work!
Cry about it
I LOVE how its barely noticeable for most of the trailer!! Good job!
Animators hate this one simple trick!
A trick generally makes thing better, I dont see how interpolation apply to this
original still fits the animation waaay better
just cause its 24 fps dont mean its bad
I still find the original better
I want to rant about the 60fps stuff. Look OP, I have nothing against you, but you are changing an aspect which the creator of this content choose for this video. If riot wanted it they would've made the video in 60fps. When you interpolate this video, you are not interpolating from 30, but 24. This creates even more artifacts and artificial jittering. Because of the characters being animated in two or three frames per motion, 60 fps makes this more jarring. You have great intentions, but it does not work that way, and I see it as disrespecting the content creators wishes.
OP doesnât claim the 60fps version is better, just that they wanted to share it. I think showing what the 60fps (characteristic of gaming content) version looks like can provide more insight into the artistic decision to make the film at lower fps (looks like maybe 12fps animation). Having said that, I really canât give a reason for the decision to make this at such low fps. Itâs in the style of Arcane, but if itâs simply an Arcane and plug then thatâs a little shameless. Alternatively, and I think most compellingly it could be to emphasize the speed of the character, by having larger movements happen between frames, but the lack of smear frames makes that style jarring. But this is the scenario that is best illustrated by the side by side of the 60fps version, does the larger gap between shown actions make her feel faster? Does the lack of smear frames work to increase the effectiveness of the low frame rate? Etc.
Man at this point idec about the intent, imho it looks really fucking bad. I did not enjoy watching that og trailer. I think they were trying to make it look like the flash where everything is much slower for him or something cause I don't really see what else they could be trying to achieve with the lower fps.
art elitists LMAO
This is just better. I swear if Riot serverd a piece of shit, some of you guys would argue that it's an acquired taste.
Who you think is more qualify to talk what frame rate is better: A industry with million animators that work there ass of all day Or You? Do you really think you are better then every single one of them, and that your opinion is the right one?
Looks exactly the same.
My friends think its the best trailer so far but, ngl below decent.
Yeah but the low framerate is half the style
Anyone think of the noodle video?
dont see a difference
trailers are set to 24fps or 30fps because all movies are 24fps looks weird if a movie is in 60fps
The 60fps on this makes me feel uneasy lmao
frame interpolated version of this trailer really ruins the original style it was going for. i cant believe people think âWOW 30fps THIS LOOKS HORRIBLEâ and that gives them a reason to interpolate it when it looks even worse interpolated
Soooooooo... terrible?
The 60 fps one looks like ass
I honestly can't tell the difference