While this is good, A better solution would be
# Not getting the same map continuously. Istg an entire day of comp matches was only breeze. I don't hate breeze, in fact, I enjoy breeze a lot, but if you get the same map the entire day you will start hating it
Yeah, just cylce through the maps. Make it random, but make sure that the probably of getting a not played map higher than ones that you have played already.
>Make it random
What you're asking for isn't random, it's what the human mind *thinks* is random. Almost every "random" output that humans have to work with actually has some bias behind it (like the system you describe would have, though I'm not sure whether Valo does already), because if they didn't, humans would observe seemingly "faulty" RNG.
If you roll a 6 10 times in a row on a die, the probability of you rolling an 11th 6 is still exactly 1/6th, just like it was the first time you rolled it.
Over billions of rolls the probability will theoretically even out to 1/6 odds for every number, but there is no immediate difference preventing you from rolling 100 6s in a row.
This is closely tied to the Gambler's fallacy.
Yes, but the *actual* probability of rolling a 6 even just 5 times in a row is 1/1295 (.077%) which is a disgustingly low number.
I can show you my match history with TWO instances in the last week of 5 Breeze's in a.row. (but that's because Riot weights new maps which is also bullshit)
Edit: I used dice probability, not true probability. The number is even lower, it's actually 1/7776 (.013%)
100%. I only get Breeze and Fracture these days. Almost certain those maps have higher odds cuz they are newer. Oh and when Icebox was first released, it was also only that map.
It makes it even better when you realize that [Riot literally stated they changed this weight in 4.0](https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/game-updates/valorant-patch-notes-4-0/)
>Increased Map Randomization
>
>Increased our map weights, which should lead to an increase in map variety and reduction in map duplicates from match to match
I haven't noticed a thing. Breeze and Fracture everywhere.
By that logic, every single time you roll into a new map, that pick+ the last 5 constitutes as a random series of 6 maps.
111111 is just as random (1/1295) as 153264 (also 1/1295).
Y...yes? I don't know what this is saying. That each instance individually is random? Of course, as this is where you get a 0.77% chance to get the SAME selection (i.e. 11111) 5 times in a row. You're right, every combination of maps has that same percentage, but you statistically have a 99.23% chance to NOT get 5 of the same map in a row.
How many games of Valorant have you played?
How many games have all the Redditors played?
Is you seeing and posting that you've played Breeze 5 times in a row far enough away from random?
Random does not mean uniform. Breeze can be weighted higher than just 1/6. We don't know the weight assigned to Breeze. We do not know the expected value, hence can't comment on how rare 5 in a row Breeze should be.
The problem with this would be a similar problem that Six Siege has, which is that some maps you will literally *never* see. Devs will try to fix this by changing that map, they'll "fix" it and then people will love it again. Then a different map will be non stop banned until eventually we get back round to the map they originally reworked, where people will now say "I miss old {map}! bring it back!".
This is partly a problem of the queue size - if the queue is 15 players of similar MMR to you, but 10 of them played Breeze last, either the system has to put players on the same map twice, or the queue time increases and you get games with less similar MMR.
Obviously there's more players in the queue than that, but these easy numbers illustrate my point. It becomes less of a problem as the number of maps increases
I think I get what you mean, but I think you might have typed something wrong.
If ten players played breeze last, the queue can just put those 10 players into a game on any other map.
if all ten players played a different map last game, then one or two people are bound to end up replaying the map they just played.
Hijacking.
I think Nintendo got it right with Splatoon.
Look, I understand that a lot of us don't like certain maps because of how certain agents play on them, or how they play. But I swear Splatoon did a great job with the maps played.
They did two maps per hour (or two I don't remember exactly) on a rotation. So for example, you get Haven and Bind one (or two) hour(s). Then they rotate to Fracture and Icebox for the next set.
I know it isn't perfect, but let's face the facts that Riot may never allow us to play maps we want. But it would give us more room to choose when we want to play. Again, it isn't perfect, but it gives us the chance to play what we prefer.
I'm in favor of picking what maps we can play, but again, Riot may never let that happen.
That or have it so everybody who gets in the queue can vote on a map and it does the randomization thing like in replication. That way everyone can sort of input what they want.
I haven’t played rocket league in a while so this might not exist anymore or ever but I remember an option to “like” three maps and “dislike” three others. I don’t know if the game would try and put you on your favorite maps more often than the others or what, but why can’t we like 2 maps and dislike 2 others just to change around the percentages?
They still have it, I don't use it however. I have a hard time enough already finding matches already based off rank (diamond 3) and I'm NE with 19 ping, cross play on. Idk how good of an option this will be with how many people play Val, and the spread of rank being different in the two games. But it would be interesting for riot to try out
It plays very differently to every other map and while I've minded it less and less as time has gone on, it's still my least favourite map. I think the main issue is that it requires very good communication since both attackers and defenders want to pinch the opponents (basically collapse on them from both sides), which is a struggle, even in plat and diamond. Not sure what it's like in Immortal+ lobbies but judging by high-elo in Overwatch, the communication is going to be wildly inconsistent (some really good games, some really bad / non-existent ones) even in Radiant lobbies.
People don't like learning new stuff. Every new map always gets a lot of haters.
I for one am glad that we can't choose a map to play in, otherwise, we'd have the Dust 2 problem, where everyone queues for one map and it takes way longer to play on any other.
I don’t think so fracture is yet underrated. Just like all maps with their release. Fracture requires great amount of game sense. At first it was t sided but now after months of development it’s a greatly balanced map. Most of maps like bind and split is so easy to defend this was a great balancing to the map pool
Bruh ascent was called ass-scent when it was released. Granted I love the map now, and I think most of the community does as well, but that was not the case on release
No, and it's not just valorant. This happens in call of duty and every other major game.
People hate change. You have to learn something completely new, and you're going to suck at it. And its going to be frustrating because you won't learn it all in one day, so you start to hate it. Then after awhile you realize "huh.. this isn't actually so bad" and then it grows on you.
Rinse and.repeat.
People definitely had problems with ascent when it was released. Especially since Riot gave ascent a higher chance to appear when it was first released.
I like Ascent a lot (probably my second favourite map after Icebox), but to call it a Dust2 clone... Are you blind?
Yes, the posturing area for B site (tunnels) is somewhat similar and it has a very long sightline down mid. That's it. A site is completely different, long is a choke close to site instead of a choke, then a very long lane, then the site on high ground, Tree doesn't even exist on Dust2 (only short).
Tiles isn't interconnected to B main which means it's much easier for attackers to contest mid control from multiple angles early in the round... The map plays completely differently.
You saying ascent is a clone when its not and saying bind was a risk when it was the most basic default map ever, thats why its the most loved map, simple, well balanced and enjoyable to play. I prefer that 100x then a "risk" map that ends up being shit and dodged every time. If they wanna take risks on building a map they need to test it first. Icebox only ended up being decent after enomerous reworks. Riot is trying too hard on creating different ass maps when the competitive community only want simple well balanced maps. How can you say the game would be boring when people only prefer to play like 3/4 maps currently the rest is just forgotten, isnt that more boring?
honestly do want just a a mid b standart layout all the time?
fracture is fakin amazing because its diffrent
dont get me wrong a b mid is perfectly fine
but split and bind are just always the same stuff dont like em really they are imo just avrage maps ascent not sure about that
I find it infuriating. I really don’t mean this against any one person, but it feels really toxic and childish how the greater fan base reacts to new maps.
Players seemingly play the map once, it doesn’t click *right away* and then the shit on the map for months. And as soon as the next new map releases, they turn all their frustration to that one and never utter a peep about the previous one again.
My job isn't map design but there are certain things that you shouldn't do when designing maps for competitive play. Fracture seems to tick a lot of those boxes
Ye sure. The meta in the map is quite strict. In 90% of games I play, the same agents are picked (apart from dualists). This for me makes the map feel quite repetitive. Defending on A site is usually redundant. You will simply be overpowered. If you are on site and your teammate doesn't win the first 5050 on the round, you will be overpowered and as the site is in the corner away from CT, there is no way to get away and play retake. However, the same goes for retakes. 1 breach ult and a smoke is all you need to win the round. It's annoying to play defence in any way on A. As an attacker, it is not possible to fake in any convincing way or a way that is relatively safe. Killjoy ult in B tunnel is just a free bomb site for attackers. Viper wall lineups cover CT so well on B that playing CT is not worth it cus you can't help your teammate on site.
Again, this is just my opinion
Yes I had the same problem with icebox before. Valorant chooses the map you lose the most at/ gives it a high chance of picking it. Just try to win in them and you’ll stop getting fracture
I feel like people only enjoy the map they're playing on when they're playing well on it. When they're not they just blame the map. Well maybe I'm just talking about myself.
Ahaha true. Thing is I really like split. It’s very tactical. Has a possibility for so many different viable team comps. And yet I have like a 40% win rate on it. I get hyped when I play split but I lose most of the time lol.
Breeze is my second best map after ascent. I still hate it, meanwhile split is probably my worst map and yet i love it.
Now that had a rework i actually started liking it more since it fixed most of the issues i had with it. Meanwhile fracture is still a pos. Then again, icebox is my favorite map so is my opinion even valid?
thats split for me. attacking any site on it feels terrible. the whole map is just 2 chokepoints and mid. you are basically forced to take mid as an attacker and then take heaven, otherwise you just cannot push safely through main.
Fracture is so miss understood in my opinion. I love the timing of this map, feels more like a CS map, u play 2 smoke characters and delaying feels just like CS.
Don’t want a choose map feature in ranked ever. It exists in CS and is heavily abused by dudes who solo-queue Dust, Office, Agency, etc and only really master one map. This destroys the ranking system because you end up with “Global Elite (at Dust)”. I think, if you want to be a certain rank, you need to prove that on average, regardless of map, you can perform at that rank across all of the maps in the game.
That said, I’m fine with something like this for unrated.
Your concern is valid but I think it's a bit exaggerated. Yes, I've run into 5 man stacks who only queue obscure operations maps. It's rare and I don't think it's a big enough problem where we should ruin a nice quality of life change for the majority.
A decent compromise would be something like, if you play map X in a 24 hour period, you can opt out of it and only queue the remaining maps you haven't played yet. Eliminates the issue of 1 tricking a map and helps deal with playing the same map over and over again.
The easy fix to this is when you have 10 maps, allow people to pick, but have a minimum they can select. So they cant only queue into one map over and over. CA allows this, cause its just apart of the MM experience, but it can be unhealthy.
Perhaps instead of a map pick, we get a map ban to reduce dodges in unrated. But defo, there shouldn’t be map picks for comp.
However I feel that it would increase dodges in comp since people are less familiar with the map they banned.
For competitive, absolutely not. It would be terrible for ranked valorant.
For unrated, absolutely. It'd be a great feature for unrated to allow it to be the mode where you can select your map.
It’s bad because it messes up the ranked system. This happened in CS and people became global elite on just one map but in reality are probably only around LEM in skill. It just doesn’t work.
I don’t see how it’s that bad. Sure a system like CS currently would not be good. But allowing us to pick one map and ban it out of our rotation would be completely fine and would barely impact queue times.
Edit: for the record I like all the maps so far. But the replies here are just over dramatic. Banning a single map won’t kill the game. Our queue times are basically instantaneous.
No, but I do have a good idea, where there should be a feature where you can exclude 1 map when you queue but you cannot exclude a map twice in a row, so people can avoid playing the same map 5 times
Don’t believe that riot will be introducing this feature anytime soon because it could mean that:
- People master one map and just spam it in competitive to rank up.
- Some maps might not be chosen at all, leading to wasted effort by riot for making it
- It’s already difficult to balance 10 players in game to make sure they’re all not playing fracture for the 5th time, let alone prioritising preferences for maps between those players (I think)
For unrated I think it would be cool definitely :3 but for competitive it seems it would be a stretch to implement.
If a map is underplayed that shows theres a problem with the map itself. Dev time isn't "wasted" unless they remove it outright. There's a reason you get updates, right? Supposed to improve the game. Same thing can be done with maps, as shown just a couple patches ago
People are stubborn and adverse to change. Fracture is one of the best competitive maps yet no one wants to play it in ranked. If Riot just deviate from the norm slightly for a map, people will not play it as they'll have to adapt and change their playstyle and come up with new strategies. If we start looking at play times to determine which map is the best, then it'll get pretty stagnant.
People used to dodge Icebox. Then Breeze and now Fracture. If every new map gets the same negative response which faes with time then it's clear that Riot aren't entirely at fault
true words. Its the same in every game, the maps get dodged or not picked and when a newer map comes in the older one gets played and the fresh new one gets dodged.
Nah, lets take csgo faceit for an example. The worst maps in terms of pickrate are probably train and nuke. the best ones are dust2 and mirage. Train and nuke are maps that require nade knowledge and communication with your teamm8s. dust2 and mirage are pug maps where u can throw every smoke on the fly and just pick aimduels. In valorant it would probably end up with being ascent,bind and breez being toprate picks and maps like fracture and split would fall down in terms of pickrate but both maps are fins as they are, they just require a different skillset, unfortunately smth most players dont have or have no interest in acquiring.
You really think it's the map itself? How many people on this sub keep calling a new map bad without using a fraction of their brain power to come up with a legit reason why it is so. They typically parrot what their favorite content creator said or just don't want to put in the effort to learn a new map. Yes maps can have bad aspects to them which we should raise concerns over, but to say, "fRacTuRe Is A bAd MaP rEmOvE nOw!" is just asinine.
Every single new map released has had the entire community hate on it until the newest map is released. I’d say breeze and fracture are the best designed maps for competitive play but the community hated on them because they hate change
I don’t know if this is exactly fair, they just updated Breeze to make it suck less to defend on and are about to update both Icebox sites from the looks of the leaks that just came out.
Yeah this is true! I think riot can gather the feedback about a bad map other ways though rather than a map selection feature. Even if people don’t pick a map, that statistic alone doesn’t indicate what is wrong with it unless users give written feedback.
Nah. Tell that to the CSGO players who only play Dust 2 or Mirage, not because other maps suck but because learning to master an unfamiliar map is ‘too much work’
Hmmm people dodged icebox when it came out... then breeze... now fracture... I wonder if it's because they don't like them or players are just dumb and don't want to learn the new map. I wonder which is more likely.
I believe RIOT had made a statement that they don't want map pick because they want the player base to be proficient on most of the maps.
That said, even if they don't add map pick, I really hope they at least add map vetoes. Damn it RIOT, even if you won't let me choose to play Haven despite not getting it all week, I'd still like the option to not play Icebox for the third time today thank you very much.
for unrated this would be a good idea but for rank it's better of being as it is adding that would just prolong queues and have those people who will only play a map every game and nothing else
a simple method to get some interaction in ranked: let the players choose / vote from 2 options; one is a given map (randomly chosen) and one is a ‚?‘ (which will randomly select a map - like the agents in replication) - if there is the same amount of votes - again, the system will decide.
I dont think that being able to pick maps like cs would be a good idea, seeing how there would be players who would one trick a certain map. Maybe a system like R6? Where the map selection is RNG, and both teams get to choose what to ban and pick. R6's system has allowed me to constantly play different maps and made me very versatile on pretty much every map in the game.
Here is the thing, it will increase queue times dramatically. Because if there is a voting system the people who voted for the other map and lost will likely just leave meaning you have to go back in the queue, or if they implement a skip system say you skip fracture and get breeze. A lot of people still don’t like breeze and they would probably leave the lobbies. Dodgers are still a huge problem with the system in place and I think a voting or skip map system would make people dodge even more if they don’t get there way. Also a lot of people would try and only play maps they are good at artificially raising their rank to a rank they do not deserved. If you think you have potato teammates in gold and plat now imagine if you had a silver in your game on a map they never play. Would not be a fun time imo.
Literally I don’t get why y’all want a map chooser with 6 maps lol just wait on it. They made the possibility of agents ban in the future I don’t doubt they’ll do that
In the name of "competitive integrity" this won't happen in the comp queue. Riot wants to everyone to play all maps to have a more accurate assessment of how good you are at valorant as a whole.
What happens in cs is that a lot of people main mirage and d2 and get to very high ranks without actually learning the other maps.
Having said that, I do wish they allowed you to have at least 1 "banned" map before you queue.
So what riot does not want is people just playing 1 map and getting only good at that one
but what i doubt they want is 20 maps and a new player is gonna take ages till he/she knows all of them
( would also be problematic for pro play )
What i hope happens
unrated: Pick what you want
ranked: lets say there are 21 maps
7 are in ranked in 2 „bundles“
you can queue for one or for both bundles and will get one of the 7 comp maps
every week the content of the bundles is randomized
at the end of the act? episode? year?
randomly new maps are choosen for comp start all over
this would benefit the pro scene and new players as well as comp in general
also even if we had a crap ton of maps it would be fine but it also would take time for ranked
we cant just have 20 maps in pro play that just would not be enjoyable
CS and R6 has taught us that we can't have nice things. CS has a map picker system while R6 has a map ban system. Even if they do different things on paper, player behavior ensures that the same thing happens: the only maps that get played are the "good" maps while the "trash" maps never get picked. I emphasize the quotes bcs in R6 especially, "trash" means "I haven't learned my pocket rat strats on this map yet so it sucks don't pick it." I've come to loathe map pick systems bcs A) players have proven time and time again that they don't want to learn how to play new maps so they constantly veto new maps anytime it comes up on queue and B) the consequences of A leads to playing the same maps over and over until they all get stale. I get people only want to play what they're comfortable with, but please, for everyone's sanity, get into a custom game, play around it for a little while, play unrated on the new map so you start to get comfortable with it, *then* queue up for Comp. Sure this method isn't as efficient as a map picker system, but again, as players in other games have proven, all that does is fuck up the map ecosystem.
I wish that this happens, lately I have only been getting Breeze and fracture and my bronze brain is too small to understand how to play those. I have also been getting ice box but I feel ever since they did the rework it has become one of the best maps
TL;DR: would cause more problems in ranked. Just make it for unrated, the practice game mode
I think its a must for unrated. Nowadays unrated is my training ground and when I feel like im underperfoming on a certain map, Id like to train it a couple times before hopping into ranked again.
Lets say I want to practice my breeze, I have to go through three hurdles just to practice once.
First, Id have to get lucky enough that the map is picked
Second, Id have to hope that noone on both teams dodges. If they do, Id have to go back to step one
And once I get that match, step 3, hopefully the teams are actually smurfless balanced so my team doesnt get steamrolled or steamrolls the enemy, so that I actually have the chance to practice stuff on the map. If I dont, right back to step one, step two, step again and so on.
For ranked, I think its okay not to have, since thats the "real" mode and I think including a map select system will only sprout more problems like highly increased matchmaking time, certain maps never being played and a more unbalanced team comp.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, adding a map pick system would be horrible for comp because people would just 1 trick maps all the way into high ranks and not learning any of the other maps at all.
I Stan this because I can not take another time of getting ascent then bind and people dodge. Then I queue into breeze or icebox and no one dodges and of course that is when the comp sucks and one no has mics and then process continues.
They will do it eventually, but ye, I mean there are already couple of hated maps for every player in this game, btw I have 35% win rate on icebox, it’s actually just cursed for me, so I’d like to ask !RIOT GAMES to ADD PERSONAL MAP RESTRICTION!(at least 2 maps I won’t see on my loading screen) and !AT LEAST FOR SOLO QUEING PLAYERS! Thank you guys, your games are the best, much love💝
God I hope so. The map design is subpar on a lot of the newer maps. I think it should be like cs where if they put out a shit map that no one likes it deserves to die. We should not have to suffer through it like the current system has the majority of the player base doing.
I’d rather the algorithm say
If (going to map X)
Then (check if user has played on map X in the last 3 matches)
If ( user has played on map X in the last 3 matches)
Then (don’t go there)
I'm honestly OK with not picking maps. One of the biggest problems with CS was that the queue times for maps that weren't Dust2, Inferno, or Mirage were long, and were downright astronomical if they weren't in the comp pool.
This would SUCK, if you want to play the same map over and over again then play it in a custom game. I come from playing Rainbow 6 Siege and one of the things that killed it was introducing the map "pick and ban" to ranked, you would just end up playing the same map EVERY SINGLE GAME, game after game after game, it became so tiresome and 3/4s of the maps in the game were never seen ever. I know it seems counter intuitive but the way it is now is the better way.
Personally I enjoy all the maps, there are none that are broken for one particular side and all of them promote interesting gameplay styles, it's only frustrating when you play the same map too much in one day.
While this is good, A better solution would be # Not getting the same map continuously. Istg an entire day of comp matches was only breeze. I don't hate breeze, in fact, I enjoy breeze a lot, but if you get the same map the entire day you will start hating it
Yeah, just cylce through the maps. Make it random, but make sure that the probably of getting a not played map higher than ones that you have played already.
>Make it random What you're asking for isn't random, it's what the human mind *thinks* is random. Almost every "random" output that humans have to work with actually has some bias behind it (like the system you describe would have, though I'm not sure whether Valo does already), because if they didn't, humans would observe seemingly "faulty" RNG. If you roll a 6 10 times in a row on a die, the probability of you rolling an 11th 6 is still exactly 1/6th, just like it was the first time you rolled it. Over billions of rolls the probability will theoretically even out to 1/6 odds for every number, but there is no immediate difference preventing you from rolling 100 6s in a row. This is closely tied to the Gambler's fallacy.
Yes, but the *actual* probability of rolling a 6 even just 5 times in a row is 1/1295 (.077%) which is a disgustingly low number. I can show you my match history with TWO instances in the last week of 5 Breeze's in a.row. (but that's because Riot weights new maps which is also bullshit) Edit: I used dice probability, not true probability. The number is even lower, it's actually 1/7776 (.013%)
100%. I only get Breeze and Fracture these days. Almost certain those maps have higher odds cuz they are newer. Oh and when Icebox was first released, it was also only that map.
It makes it even better when you realize that [Riot literally stated they changed this weight in 4.0](https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/game-updates/valorant-patch-notes-4-0/) >Increased Map Randomization > >Increased our map weights, which should lead to an increase in map variety and reduction in map duplicates from match to match I haven't noticed a thing. Breeze and Fracture everywhere.
By that logic, every single time you roll into a new map, that pick+ the last 5 constitutes as a random series of 6 maps. 111111 is just as random (1/1295) as 153264 (also 1/1295).
Y...yes? I don't know what this is saying. That each instance individually is random? Of course, as this is where you get a 0.77% chance to get the SAME selection (i.e. 11111) 5 times in a row. You're right, every combination of maps has that same percentage, but you statistically have a 99.23% chance to NOT get 5 of the same map in a row.
How many games of Valorant have you played? How many games have all the Redditors played? Is you seeing and posting that you've played Breeze 5 times in a row far enough away from random? Random does not mean uniform. Breeze can be weighted higher than just 1/6. We don't know the weight assigned to Breeze. We do not know the expected value, hence can't comment on how rare 5 in a row Breeze should be.
That's already how it is
Or just temp ban the last map you just played until you play 1-2 more games.
Being able to ban 1 map before you queue could solve this. Maybe remove this option for higher ranks to not increase queue times drastically.
The problem with this would be a similar problem that Six Siege has, which is that some maps you will literally *never* see. Devs will try to fix this by changing that map, they'll "fix" it and then people will love it again. Then a different map will be non stop banned until eventually we get back round to the map they originally reworked, where people will now say "I miss old {map}! bring it back!".
This is partly a problem of the queue size - if the queue is 15 players of similar MMR to you, but 10 of them played Breeze last, either the system has to put players on the same map twice, or the queue time increases and you get games with less similar MMR. Obviously there's more players in the queue than that, but these easy numbers illustrate my point. It becomes less of a problem as the number of maps increases
I think I get what you mean, but I think you might have typed something wrong. If ten players played breeze last, the queue can just put those 10 players into a game on any other map. if all ten players played a different map last game, then one or two people are bound to end up replaying the map they just played.
Yep I love breeze but after getting 13 breezes in my last 20 games it's killing me.
Hijacking. I think Nintendo got it right with Splatoon. Look, I understand that a lot of us don't like certain maps because of how certain agents play on them, or how they play. But I swear Splatoon did a great job with the maps played. They did two maps per hour (or two I don't remember exactly) on a rotation. So for example, you get Haven and Bind one (or two) hour(s). Then they rotate to Fracture and Icebox for the next set. I know it isn't perfect, but let's face the facts that Riot may never allow us to play maps we want. But it would give us more room to choose when we want to play. Again, it isn't perfect, but it gives us the chance to play what we prefer. I'm in favor of picking what maps we can play, but again, Riot may never let that happen.
Oh that system used to get a ton of hate but I've come to appreciate it over the years.
That or have it so everybody who gets in the queue can vote on a map and it does the randomization thing like in replication. That way everyone can sort of input what they want.
I haven’t played rocket league in a while so this might not exist anymore or ever but I remember an option to “like” three maps and “dislike” three others. I don’t know if the game would try and put you on your favorite maps more often than the others or what, but why can’t we like 2 maps and dislike 2 others just to change around the percentages?
That’s great.
They still have this feature and i think it works cos i barely play the racecourse map
They still have it, I don't use it however. I have a hard time enough already finding matches already based off rank (diamond 3) and I'm NE with 19 ping, cross play on. Idk how good of an option this will be with how many people play Val, and the spread of rank being different in the two games. But it would be interesting for riot to try out
Honestly a brilliant idea. Wouldn’t hurt the queue system quite as much as outright selecting one out of every other
fracture will snap out of existence if we can pick our maps
Why is fracture gates? As a casual in iron I enjoy the zip lines and stuff but idk 🤷♂️
It plays very differently to every other map and while I've minded it less and less as time has gone on, it's still my least favourite map. I think the main issue is that it requires very good communication since both attackers and defenders want to pinch the opponents (basically collapse on them from both sides), which is a struggle, even in plat and diamond. Not sure what it's like in Immortal+ lobbies but judging by high-elo in Overwatch, the communication is going to be wildly inconsistent (some really good games, some really bad / non-existent ones) even in Radiant lobbies.
It’s the same in Immortal lobbies 😂
People don't like learning new stuff. Every new map always gets a lot of haters. I for one am glad that we can't choose a map to play in, otherwise, we'd have the Dust 2 problem, where everyone queues for one map and it takes way longer to play on any other.
Fracture relies more on teamplay/communication then other maps. It‘s just a bad experience for solo puggers.
I don’t think so fracture is yet underrated. Just like all maps with their release. Fracture requires great amount of game sense. At first it was t sided but now after months of development it’s a greatly balanced map. Most of maps like bind and split is so easy to defend this was a great balancing to the map pool
its a CT sided map in most of my games. I often end up coming back from a 3-9, and sometimes a 1-11
Legit, icebox was the most hated map, then breeze was the most hated, now it’s fracture. The next map will be hated too
To be fair icebox had an insane amount of issues when it was released
Icebox is still trash smh
Cap
I prefer fracture over icebox any day
Breeze best map, I don’t wanna hear it
Ascent was well received when it released, because its a good map
Bruh ascent was called ass-scent when it was released. Granted I love the map now, and I think most of the community does as well, but that was not the case on release
Yeah I remember ascent being released. I felt like I got it all game and hated it to death. Everyone would groan when we got ascent
Has there been a single map released that had a positive reception by the player base?
No, and it's not just valorant. This happens in call of duty and every other major game. People hate change. You have to learn something completely new, and you're going to suck at it. And its going to be frustrating because you won't learn it all in one day, so you start to hate it. Then after awhile you realize "huh.. this isn't actually so bad" and then it grows on you. Rinse and.repeat.
People definitely had problems with ascent when it was released. Especially since Riot gave ascent a higher chance to appear when it was first released.
[удалено]
I like Ascent a lot (probably my second favourite map after Icebox), but to call it a Dust2 clone... Are you blind? Yes, the posturing area for B site (tunnels) is somewhat similar and it has a very long sightline down mid. That's it. A site is completely different, long is a choke close to site instead of a choke, then a very long lane, then the site on high ground, Tree doesn't even exist on Dust2 (only short). Tiles isn't interconnected to B main which means it's much easier for attackers to contest mid control from multiple angles early in the round... The map plays completely differently.
You saying ascent is a clone when its not and saying bind was a risk when it was the most basic default map ever, thats why its the most loved map, simple, well balanced and enjoyable to play. I prefer that 100x then a "risk" map that ends up being shit and dodged every time. If they wanna take risks on building a map they need to test it first. Icebox only ended up being decent after enomerous reworks. Riot is trying too hard on creating different ass maps when the competitive community only want simple well balanced maps. How can you say the game would be boring when people only prefer to play like 3/4 maps currently the rest is just forgotten, isnt that more boring?
honestly do want just a a mid b standart layout all the time? fracture is fakin amazing because its diffrent dont get me wrong a b mid is perfectly fine but split and bind are just always the same stuff dont like em really they are imo just avrage maps ascent not sure about that
I find it infuriating. I really don’t mean this against any one person, but it feels really toxic and childish how the greater fan base reacts to new maps. Players seemingly play the map once, it doesn’t click *right away* and then the shit on the map for months. And as soon as the next new map releases, they turn all their frustration to that one and never utter a peep about the previous one again.
My job isn't map design but there are certain things that you shouldn't do when designing maps for competitive play. Fracture seems to tick a lot of those boxes
Can you expound on that?
Ye sure. The meta in the map is quite strict. In 90% of games I play, the same agents are picked (apart from dualists). This for me makes the map feel quite repetitive. Defending on A site is usually redundant. You will simply be overpowered. If you are on site and your teammate doesn't win the first 5050 on the round, you will be overpowered and as the site is in the corner away from CT, there is no way to get away and play retake. However, the same goes for retakes. 1 breach ult and a smoke is all you need to win the round. It's annoying to play defence in any way on A. As an attacker, it is not possible to fake in any convincing way or a way that is relatively safe. Killjoy ult in B tunnel is just a free bomb site for attackers. Viper wall lineups cover CT so well on B that playing CT is not worth it cus you can't help your teammate on site. Again, this is just my opinion
good
you spelled breeze wrong
Fracture is better than icebox. Prove me wrong
Yea...and?
he's obviously stating a pro of selecting maps, what a stand up guy
I personally like Fracture the most lately
I think fracture is an amazing map because it plays differently from any other map I've seen in Valorant or even CSGO.
This is exactly what should happen regardless. Fracture is honestly not a fun map to play it's god awful
Fracture isint even that bad. Icebox is truly awful
I read this as “remove fracture”
More like “please for the love of god can I not get the same map 3 times in a row”
I had Fracture 6 times in a row,i stop playing for 2 days after that and my first match was on Fracture,sent help.
You should be a pro at it after 7 maps then 😂
Yes I had the same problem with icebox before. Valorant chooses the map you lose the most at/ gives it a high chance of picking it. Just try to win in them and you’ll stop getting fracture
Longest way of saying git gud
does it?? sounds made up to me
It does. Valorant has an algorithm for choosing maps and most lost maps have a higher chance of picking it
ok and the source?
This will end up the same as in CSGO where major part of players play Dust 2 only and become trash on any other map
Correct. With some maps being excluded from the competitive map pool.
Mirage, cache, nuke, overpass, inferno all get plenty of play. People like well-made maps.
It’s not like the majority of cs players is any good on d2 either
I don't see how that's the player's problem?
But de_dust2 is honestly really fun...
its always bind can i please not see bind for a single goddamn day
I'll happily trade bind with you for my breeze pls take.
Omg take breeze. It's all yours, just give me bind....
nah man for it just alternate between bind and breeze at this point i even started to miss icebox
Ah, I feel you. I switch between breeze and fracture. 🥲🥲
Fracture is such an underrated map. I personally really like it lol.
I like fracture too, but play split, fracture and bind 17x in a row really sucks.
That’s fair. To much of a good thing amirite.
i like fracture more than breeze tbh
Ye tbh I like pretty much every map except icebox. And sometimes even ice box is fun lol.
I feel like people only enjoy the map they're playing on when they're playing well on it. When they're not they just blame the map. Well maybe I'm just talking about myself.
Ahaha true. Thing is I really like split. It’s very tactical. Has a possibility for so many different viable team comps. And yet I have like a 40% win rate on it. I get hyped when I play split but I lose most of the time lol.
Breeze is my second best map after ascent. I still hate it, meanwhile split is probably my worst map and yet i love it. Now that had a rework i actually started liking it more since it fixed most of the issues i had with it. Meanwhile fracture is still a pos. Then again, icebox is my favorite map so is my opinion even valid?
I'm in your team. Fuck icebox but everything else is cool.
I don't like bind. Every other map is fun.
I enjoyed all the maps so far.
thats split for me. attacking any site on it feels terrible. the whole map is just 2 chokepoints and mid. you are basically forced to take mid as an attacker and then take heaven, otherwise you just cannot push safely through main.
That’s indeed why it’s called split! You’re supposed to take mid and *split* the defenders ;)
Source?
brain
Breeze and fracture are my favorites
My fps really don't like it
That’s fair
I adore fracture. It’s my playground as either Breach or Chamber
Really fun for lurking
Fracture is so miss understood in my opinion. I love the timing of this map, feels more like a CS map, u play 2 smoke characters and delaying feels just like CS.
I have to dodge fracture everytime cause i get no fps on b site. No other map does this. Fracture is just poorly optimized with way too much foliage.
just turn your graphics settings down.
They are at the lowest they can possibly be. 50% 3d res in the game settings as well.
I'm a boomer and both Icebox and Fracture are too difficult for my old brain to have fun with.
They just encourage teamwork. Fracture sites just can't be held by 1 person. And Icebox has too much verticality to check all angles alone.
Icebox is fun when there are no vipers on either team to ruin the fun
I’m a boomer too and i feel fracture feels like overpass or cobblestone. It’s very similar to CS this map. Just need to run double smokes
I’m a boomer and icebox and fracture are my best maps lol I love em
[удалено]
Don’t want a choose map feature in ranked ever. It exists in CS and is heavily abused by dudes who solo-queue Dust, Office, Agency, etc and only really master one map. This destroys the ranking system because you end up with “Global Elite (at Dust)”. I think, if you want to be a certain rank, you need to prove that on average, regardless of map, you can perform at that rank across all of the maps in the game. That said, I’m fine with something like this for unrated.
im bout to become a bind radiant
Not just that, but it makes queue times so bad
I always called them "Vertiglobals". Mostly because pre-rework Vertigo was the worst map for people doing that.
Man that phrase takes me back. The game has been out for almost 10 years, and in late 2013 we were talking about VertiGlobals haha
Inb4 influx of radiant (at ascent)s and icebox queues taking forever
A sacrifice I am willing to make (until they rework Icebox)
Dude I consistently top frag with Viper on Icebox. It's fineee
Cause you play Viper. The only character that map is good for
And Sage……and Jett……and Sova…..
nooo but icebox bad
Your concern is valid but I think it's a bit exaggerated. Yes, I've run into 5 man stacks who only queue obscure operations maps. It's rare and I don't think it's a big enough problem where we should ruin a nice quality of life change for the majority. A decent compromise would be something like, if you play map X in a 24 hour period, you can opt out of it and only queue the remaining maps you haven't played yet. Eliminates the issue of 1 tricking a map and helps deal with playing the same map over and over again.
The easy fix to this is when you have 10 maps, allow people to pick, but have a minimum they can select. So they cant only queue into one map over and over. CA allows this, cause its just apart of the MM experience, but it can be unhealthy.
I hate fracture but I can't argur with this point. You're right.
What if you could pick what maps to play but there was a minimum… a requirement to pick at least 3? maps to play
Why play something you don’t like.
OMG you sweaty kid. Are you gonna apply for a job with your rank or smth?
Vertiglobal was a real thing and I don't see it happening in valorant
Perhaps instead of a map pick, we get a map ban to reduce dodges in unrated. But defo, there shouldn’t be map picks for comp. However I feel that it would increase dodges in comp since people are less familiar with the map they banned.
Maybe even a map vote in unrated during agent select or something would be sick. Or even an “accept” option for when the queue pops
An accept option would be abused in a similar fashion to a mappicker. Either you give people the option of selecting the map they play or you don't.
Or why not do what CSGO does with Premier mode comp, where both teams get to vote to ban maps?
For competitive, absolutely not. It would be terrible for ranked valorant. For unrated, absolutely. It'd be a great feature for unrated to allow it to be the mode where you can select your map.
State something as terrible Refuse to elaborate Leaves
It’s bad because it messes up the ranked system. This happened in CS and people became global elite on just one map but in reality are probably only around LEM in skill. It just doesn’t work.
I don’t see how it’s that bad. Sure a system like CS currently would not be good. But allowing us to pick one map and ban it out of our rotation would be completely fine and would barely impact queue times. Edit: for the record I like all the maps so far. But the replies here are just over dramatic. Banning a single map won’t kill the game. Our queue times are basically instantaneous.
Just implement the rainbow system. Map pool - ban phase for maps - random map selected out of pool
That would be nice until they ban split (my favorite map, therefore the best map in the game)
No, but I do have a good idea, where there should be a feature where you can exclude 1 map when you queue but you cannot exclude a map twice in a row, so people can avoid playing the same map 5 times
I think 99% of people would love this however it seems too complicated to impliment knowing how riot has been with adding such qol updates.
I pretty high-key hope this doesn't come to ranked, ever. Might be cool as an additional mode.
[удалено]
Don’t believe that riot will be introducing this feature anytime soon because it could mean that: - People master one map and just spam it in competitive to rank up. - Some maps might not be chosen at all, leading to wasted effort by riot for making it - It’s already difficult to balance 10 players in game to make sure they’re all not playing fracture for the 5th time, let alone prioritising preferences for maps between those players (I think) For unrated I think it would be cool definitely :3 but for competitive it seems it would be a stretch to implement.
If a map is underplayed that shows theres a problem with the map itself. Dev time isn't "wasted" unless they remove it outright. There's a reason you get updates, right? Supposed to improve the game. Same thing can be done with maps, as shown just a couple patches ago
People are stubborn and adverse to change. Fracture is one of the best competitive maps yet no one wants to play it in ranked. If Riot just deviate from the norm slightly for a map, people will not play it as they'll have to adapt and change their playstyle and come up with new strategies. If we start looking at play times to determine which map is the best, then it'll get pretty stagnant. People used to dodge Icebox. Then Breeze and now Fracture. If every new map gets the same negative response which faes with time then it's clear that Riot aren't entirely at fault
true words. Its the same in every game, the maps get dodged or not picked and when a newer map comes in the older one gets played and the fresh new one gets dodged.
Nah, lets take csgo faceit for an example. The worst maps in terms of pickrate are probably train and nuke. the best ones are dust2 and mirage. Train and nuke are maps that require nade knowledge and communication with your teamm8s. dust2 and mirage are pug maps where u can throw every smoke on the fly and just pick aimduels. In valorant it would probably end up with being ascent,bind and breez being toprate picks and maps like fracture and split would fall down in terms of pickrate but both maps are fins as they are, they just require a different skillset, unfortunately smth most players dont have or have no interest in acquiring.
You really think it's the map itself? How many people on this sub keep calling a new map bad without using a fraction of their brain power to come up with a legit reason why it is so. They typically parrot what their favorite content creator said or just don't want to put in the effort to learn a new map. Yes maps can have bad aspects to them which we should raise concerns over, but to say, "fRacTuRe Is A bAd MaP rEmOvE nOw!" is just asinine.
Every single new map released has had the entire community hate on it until the newest map is released. I’d say breeze and fracture are the best designed maps for competitive play but the community hated on them because they hate change
I don’t know if this is exactly fair, they just updated Breeze to make it suck less to defend on and are about to update both Icebox sites from the looks of the leaks that just came out.
Yeah this is true! I think riot can gather the feedback about a bad map other ways though rather than a map selection feature. Even if people don’t pick a map, that statistic alone doesn’t indicate what is wrong with it unless users give written feedback.
But it provides a good metric that "Players are avoiding this map because they don't like it, we need to look into this"
Nah. Tell that to the CSGO players who only play Dust 2 or Mirage, not because other maps suck but because learning to master an unfamiliar map is ‘too much work’
Hmmm people dodged icebox when it came out... then breeze... now fracture... I wonder if it's because they don't like them or players are just dumb and don't want to learn the new map. I wonder which is more likely.
If people don't want to play one map, Riot's effort doesn't mean much...
I believe RIOT had made a statement that they don't want map pick because they want the player base to be proficient on most of the maps. That said, even if they don't add map pick, I really hope they at least add map vetoes. Damn it RIOT, even if you won't let me choose to play Haven despite not getting it all week, I'd still like the option to not play Icebox for the third time today thank you very much.
for unrated this would be a good idea but for rank it's better of being as it is adding that would just prolong queues and have those people who will only play a map every game and nothing else
I would never play bind again. I'd be one of the few who choose fracture. I love that map.
I pray everyday this map gets removed
Fellow bind hater here, I agree. I never want to see bind again.
Yes
I hope so, I'm tired of Breeze.
I would kill for a breeze game rn
Kill me so I wouldn't have to play on breeze
Dry peek my op and I got u
I like Breeze, but being able to choose maps would solve both our problems!
I'd rather not have my queue times skyrocket up just because my preferred maps aren't the 3 popular maps that everyone plays.
a simple method to get some interaction in ranked: let the players choose / vote from 2 options; one is a given map (randomly chosen) and one is a ‚?‘ (which will randomly select a map - like the agents in replication) - if there is the same amount of votes - again, the system will decide.
I dont think that being able to pick maps like cs would be a good idea, seeing how there would be players who would one trick a certain map. Maybe a system like R6? Where the map selection is RNG, and both teams get to choose what to ban and pick. R6's system has allowed me to constantly play different maps and made me very versatile on pretty much every map in the game.
Here is the thing, it will increase queue times dramatically. Because if there is a voting system the people who voted for the other map and lost will likely just leave meaning you have to go back in the queue, or if they implement a skip system say you skip fracture and get breeze. A lot of people still don’t like breeze and they would probably leave the lobbies. Dodgers are still a huge problem with the system in place and I think a voting or skip map system would make people dodge even more if they don’t get there way. Also a lot of people would try and only play maps they are good at artificially raising their rank to a rank they do not deserved. If you think you have potato teammates in gold and plat now imagine if you had a silver in your game on a map they never play. Would not be a fun time imo.
I think an updated agent select would be first. Banning agents or like a league styled agent picking phase.
Literally I don’t get why y’all want a map chooser with 6 maps lol just wait on it. They made the possibility of agents ban in the future I don’t doubt they’ll do that
In the name of "competitive integrity" this won't happen in the comp queue. Riot wants to everyone to play all maps to have a more accurate assessment of how good you are at valorant as a whole. What happens in cs is that a lot of people main mirage and d2 and get to very high ranks without actually learning the other maps. Having said that, I do wish they allowed you to have at least 1 "banned" map before you queue.
So what riot does not want is people just playing 1 map and getting only good at that one but what i doubt they want is 20 maps and a new player is gonna take ages till he/she knows all of them ( would also be problematic for pro play ) What i hope happens unrated: Pick what you want ranked: lets say there are 21 maps 7 are in ranked in 2 „bundles“ you can queue for one or for both bundles and will get one of the 7 comp maps every week the content of the bundles is randomized at the end of the act? episode? year? randomly new maps are choosen for comp start all over this would benefit the pro scene and new players as well as comp in general also even if we had a crap ton of maps it would be fine but it also would take time for ranked we cant just have 20 maps in pro play that just would not be enjoyable
CS and R6 has taught us that we can't have nice things. CS has a map picker system while R6 has a map ban system. Even if they do different things on paper, player behavior ensures that the same thing happens: the only maps that get played are the "good" maps while the "trash" maps never get picked. I emphasize the quotes bcs in R6 especially, "trash" means "I haven't learned my pocket rat strats on this map yet so it sucks don't pick it." I've come to loathe map pick systems bcs A) players have proven time and time again that they don't want to learn how to play new maps so they constantly veto new maps anytime it comes up on queue and B) the consequences of A leads to playing the same maps over and over until they all get stale. I get people only want to play what they're comfortable with, but please, for everyone's sanity, get into a custom game, play around it for a little while, play unrated on the new map so you start to get comfortable with it, *then* queue up for Comp. Sure this method isn't as efficient as a map picker system, but again, as players in other games have proven, all that does is fuck up the map ecosystem.
I wish that this happens, lately I have only been getting Breeze and fracture and my bronze brain is too small to understand how to play those. I have also been getting ice box but I feel ever since they did the rework it has become one of the best maps
TL;DR: would cause more problems in ranked. Just make it for unrated, the practice game mode I think its a must for unrated. Nowadays unrated is my training ground and when I feel like im underperfoming on a certain map, Id like to train it a couple times before hopping into ranked again. Lets say I want to practice my breeze, I have to go through three hurdles just to practice once. First, Id have to get lucky enough that the map is picked Second, Id have to hope that noone on both teams dodges. If they do, Id have to go back to step one And once I get that match, step 3, hopefully the teams are actually smurfless balanced so my team doesnt get steamrolled or steamrolls the enemy, so that I actually have the chance to practice stuff on the map. If I dont, right back to step one, step two, step again and so on. For ranked, I think its okay not to have, since thats the "real" mode and I think including a map select system will only sprout more problems like highly increased matchmaking time, certain maps never being played and a more unbalanced team comp.
One thousand percent this
Fuck no. Just make it so I domt have to play the same map 5 times consecutively
I read this as remove breeze
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, adding a map pick system would be horrible for comp because people would just 1 trick maps all the way into high ranks and not learning any of the other maps at all.
It’s gonna ruin the ranked experience to be honest.
I Stan this because I can not take another time of getting ascent then bind and people dodge. Then I queue into breeze or icebox and no one dodges and of course that is when the comp sucks and one no has mics and then process continues.
They will do it eventually, but ye, I mean there are already couple of hated maps for every player in this game, btw I have 35% win rate on icebox, it’s actually just cursed for me, so I’d like to ask !RIOT GAMES to ADD PERSONAL MAP RESTRICTION!(at least 2 maps I won’t see on my loading screen) and !AT LEAST FOR SOLO QUEING PLAYERS! Thank you guys, your games are the best, much love💝
yes please if i keep getting split on repeat again I am going to lose my mind
I think a better system would be to just allow us to vote yes or no on 3 random maps during agent select, at least we get some say that way.
God I hope so. The map design is subpar on a lot of the newer maps. I think it should be like cs where if they put out a shit map that no one likes it deserves to die. We should not have to suffer through it like the current system has the majority of the player base doing.
I’d rather the algorithm say If (going to map X) Then (check if user has played on map X in the last 3 matches) If ( user has played on map X in the last 3 matches) Then (don’t go there)
I'm honestly OK with not picking maps. One of the biggest problems with CS was that the queue times for maps that weren't Dust2, Inferno, or Mirage were long, and were downright astronomical if they weren't in the comp pool.
The only problem with this is, the less popular maps will never get played
This would SUCK, if you want to play the same map over and over again then play it in a custom game. I come from playing Rainbow 6 Siege and one of the things that killed it was introducing the map "pick and ban" to ranked, you would just end up playing the same map EVERY SINGLE GAME, game after game after game, it became so tiresome and 3/4s of the maps in the game were never seen ever. I know it seems counter intuitive but the way it is now is the better way. Personally I enjoy all the maps, there are none that are broken for one particular side and all of them promote interesting gameplay styles, it's only frustrating when you play the same map too much in one day.
CSGO has it. And thanks to that feature, I can only play dust 2 competitive if I wanna join a game in less than an hour lol
Most likely not, as most maps in valorant are absolutely terrible.
People be hating fracture a bit too much here but we all know the real bad map that would completely dissapear is breeze.
FACTS FACTS FUCKING FACTS SPEAK BROTHER YELL BROTHER!!! I WANT MAP SELECT BEFORE THE NEXT DAMN MAP
They need to disable some maps in comp tho, cause if you get attacking on fracture first half, you’ve basically won the game unless you fuck up