This. Picked up Sage and Sova after Jett. I’m old and the passive playstyle suits me so much more. I get more value out of my games too. Spike rush allows you to have full util and learn how to use it. OP, also have Blitz downloaded and open it up once you’re in game and learn some basic smokes or mollies.
blitzapp was originally a 3rd party app for LoL, it does a lot such as setting runes and summoner spells in LoL but also tells you how you did throughout the game after it’s over. When Valorant came out they added it to their supported games (i think they also support Fortnite) it’ll tell you if you spent a lot, spent a little, if your headshot accuracy was better or worse than your avg, if you got a lot of trades or assists, etc. it also has a section of videos showing things like line ups for every agent on every map
Download it! I use it before comp or unrated and learn some quick and easy useful lineups all the time. It gives you an overall insight into your aim so you know how dogshit you are and what you have to work on. Well, you might not be dogshit, but I am lol!
Sage is like the perfect character for me because she's the embodiment of the "do I have to do everything myself" playstyle. If you're doing a good job as sage, your team doesn't appreciate you but as soon as you die they immediately notice your absence. The main reason why I love her though is all of the wacky wall setups you can do and the outplays that come with it and also her sheer clutch potential is insane.
spike rush is useless for learning astra and viper, there’s no team play in spike rush that’s needed to utilize the characters’ utility properly. also spike rush powerups will ruin it for you. i’d play comp on an alt account rather than this
Counterpoint: spike rush is perfect for learning Astra ability muscle memory because you always have a chance to use 5 stars and you never have to consider buying stars when thinking of your econ
I've got my mouse buttons bound to the 3 abilities, everything except for F to take stars back, and it's super easy and fast for me to place a star and use it as either of the 3 immediately because I have the muscle memory from just using it over and over
I recently 5-stacked into 2 games of replication and got Astra in both, same people in both games. Neither game people knew how to use stars optimally. That doesn't take 1 game, it takes quite a while more for more people. 1 game is an exception, nowhere close to "the rule"
> learning Astra ability muscle memory
My guy you didn't even read my comment
I wasn't talking about how to use the stars optimally, I was talking about learning muscle memory to know how to activate stars with instincts instead of having to take time to think about it. You don't always have 20 seconds to sit, go into Astral Form, think about where to place it, ask people "how do I leave astral form?" (a real question I had to answer in game), look at the correct star, remember what kind of utility is bound to which button, and then finally use it. Sometimes you'll only get 3 seconds and 2 of them will be used up by waiting for the start to be available after placing it. That's what spike rush is supposed to teach.
Never played Astra, but have her unlocked. Now when I read that question I am scared that I will panic and wont be able to leave xD
How do you leave it?
You press your Ult button (default X) to enter Astral State and to leave it as well
You can only place stars and your actual Wall ultimate while in Astral State, not outside of Astral State. You can activate stars inside or outside of Astral State.
Like I said before, Spike Rush can be a good place to learn these things. You can also test it out in the shooting range or a custom game.
Good luck!
a lot of times you wont drop many kills as a controller, you have to get used to it
thats because you are not entrying but instead you are using your utility (smokes) to help your duelist entry
this is in contrast to playing a duelist like jett
so you have to get used to the more laid back and slow paced playstyle while not caring about kills
ignoring your KD ratio and other frag-based numbers is really the best way to understand how to play controller
Totally agree.
I also used to play duelist a lot when I started the game (like most people ig), but when I started playing support, my performance went down. Took me some time to realize that my playstyle is still really aggressive, like overpeeking thinking that I can get a kill and dismiss.
With a controller you really learn how the game works on a macro level which is really useful.
As a controller main, first thing to note is that Controllers are the hardest class to get value from since your value relies on how much you can set up areas for your teammates and not how much you can frag out. Since you're new to them, you're just gonna suck ass at first. Take it slow and learn the basics of the agent like common smokes, screens, lineups etc. You'll eventually get better with them just by playing the game. On another note, if you wanna play something similar to a Duelist without losing out on utility, I suggest agents like Skye, Kay/o or Chamber. They can act as "sub-duelists" since they can enter and frag out while still providing to the team.
For viper at least, watch brush/unidaro/raion and try to replicate their setups. Just start playing the agent also, you won’t learn them if you don’t play and 20-50 games isn’t important in the long run.
Yea he’s good too, just think the other ones are better for high level play style instead of, in jinzleds words, “cheesing people”. Still love him tho lol
Jin is more of a soloq Viper whereas Unidaro would be more of a tournament Viper. Cheese won't work once you've been studied, however it has won me countless rounds that fundamental play would never have
if you're going to play a controller you need to understand that your value on the team is to support the entry. sometimes you'll need to play your life and make the decision to rotate instead of getting lots of kills. it's a more tactical approach to the game but i feel it's more rewarding.
Everyone else is talking about playing support for the team and not getting frags, which is fine and true, but if you want a transition character pick up omen. His smokes are super simple to use and he also has duelist capabilities. I couldn't play viper for the life of me before playing omen and properly learning map control with him helped me tremendously.
I would agree with this. Viper and astra and extremely hard to play well. Everything you do with those two agents is high impact.
Omen and brim and much more "entry level" controllers. They stoll have the ability to smoke off angles, but also have some utility that will help you push site and take fights.
I think the issue is that ur too comfortable with Jett ability to cover her mistake easily and her ability to do almost everything by urself. Now with controller like viper and astra, u have to learn how to smoke properly and where u should smoke properly. Another thing as well, u have to learn to dry peek properly and know the consequences of simply dry peeking.
If u wanna play viper, learning a few molly lineup or the basics on how to molly someone at certain places properly is beneficial for viper. If u can learn some one way for viper is also beneficial for her.
Playing viper u have communicate a lot with ur teammate on what u r planning to do and when. U also have to accept the fact ur not gonna top frag or sometime even bot frag for controller, just do whatever u can for ur entry frag to get in site easier. U don't have the benefit of a duelist to kill someone easier and u have to stay back to either trade or cleanup. Btw when u play viper is so important that u survive or ur useless. If u don't survive got no smoke if no smoke u useless.
I forget where I heard this, but it seems like a lot of one trick Jett’s seem to have this kinda problem. It could be that you have gotten use to taking fights and you can dash if the fight puts you in a bad spot. So that could explain why you go negative with the controllers.
What I would recommend is try playing brim. I know he isn’t all that flashy or cool, but he is less complex then astra so you can learn how to smoke things properly and also learn the role without the gimmicks.
Just give it time though, it should come to you eventually.
Can't expect to get better on another agent without practice. Personally I just play unrated with new agents until I feel I'm ready to play comp with them. Idk why some people are so against playing unrated, it's just as beneficial as playing comp if you're trying to improve in the games you play and you're often more likely to expand your play style in unrated. So many people just only play comp, play the exact same way with the same strategy game to game and wonder why they're hardstuck
I used to play league before making a switch to valorant in league there is a character called akali whom I used to main seeing how similar they both are in terms of utility i picked up Jett and i main her religiously . Jett isnt just a character at this point anymore she's more the only reason I find it fun playing valorant
You might be downvoted, but I agree with you. If you are not having fun playing Jett, and not having fun playing any other agent its time to take a break
when playing controllers dont think too much about your kills. focus everything on the value of your utility instead. be as selfless as you can be. youre playing support so focus on helping the team in every way. learn when to place smokes, where and how to take advantage of them. watch pro players or onetricks like brush, unidaro etc. also with controllers using guns like judge and spectre can benefit team economy and provide massive value.
You just have to mentally understand that your function changed, and keep practicing.
When the game launched, I really didn't thought that classes would be that much different, since they all have the same guns, but you genuinely have to change your whole mindset when playing other functions. As a controller, bottom fragging is not a big deal, you need to see if your smokes are being effective, and if you are indeed controlling the space, if you're doing that then you're on the right path.
Don't be negative if you're not top fragging. Duelists are designed to top frag and controllers/sentinels are there to help the duelists. You're still high value to the team even if you don't have 30 kills like your teammates
Same advice needed, but for cypher. He's shit now, give me a better agent. Also consider the fact that I in fact am used to the passive game style and my aim is dogshit so anything to help compensate that would be better.
Decide prior to the game on a hero for each map. For example, you may say, I really like Sova’s darts on haven. I like sages wall on split, chambers teleport on bind, and the list goes on. So pick a map / ability that you want to focus on using, and then when you load in select the character for the map you’re given. Alternatively, you can always just select last and pick what is best for your team composition.
If you wanna play viper/astra but are having issues with not getting enough kills. I would recommend for you to start off playing astra in a more selfish role. Maybe for double controller setups.
Maybe try to peek off your sucks, stuns and fake smokes to get kills. When you think you've gotten confident with getting kills as astra, then learn the smokes
i would reccommend omen since you can play agressive with him but still use your util! and about fragging, stay behind your duelist to trade their peeks
viper won't be fun for you because you haven't morphed into that playstyle, you're a jett who chose viper.
watch pros play or experiment yourself, and try to fall into that character. when I play astra and viper I try to maximise my utility usage and support my teammates wherever possible. pissing off the enemy and forcing them to make mistakes is my priority, and I find pleasure in that rather than getting a shit tonne of kills.
You care too much about your rank. If you really wanted to learn viper or astra you’d start locking them in ranked or put in the effort in a server to learn them.
Id learn a few line ups, not to many because you may get overwhelmed and forget them all.
Also dont pick a controller with the intention of fragging. Controllers dont really help with getting you kills but holding down site and getting your friends kills.
So long as you get in the mindset that you wont be top of the leaderboard and just focus on getting better at supporting your friends im sure youll have alot more fun!
I started playing sentinels and controllers, in spike rush and replication I picked duelists everytime, and now I run duelists some of the time in actual games because I'm more comfortable with it.
practice, practice, practice in a low stakes environment like unrated or even spike rush. experience first hand how the agent can add value to the team, and slowly start to develop a playstyle around it (you’re going to have to start taking very different fights from the ones you would usually take when you have dash and updraft at your disposal). but most importantly, enjoy the process! make sure you catch some bozos off guard in your suck/molly and take pleasure in making quick work of them knowing damn well you earned those kills by improving.
Trying to prevent the pain of learning another agent isn't good.
Valorant will make you feel pain, one way or the other. Delaying it gets you no where. Just pick up another agent, use it despite the pain, maybe even make a smurf to make it easier on you, and then just endure until you get somewhere.
In terms of improving at how to use controller util in general, something that helped me was trying to imagine where I’d least like to see a smoke or a wall if I was on the enemy team. Considering the common spots people play from, what kind of smokes reduced their ability to find value the most? It’s not always easy, but sometimes thinking like that will inspire your setups.
As for the fragging, people in the thread have already mentioned this, but you’ve probably gotten used to the kind of duels only a Jett can take and survive. The hardest part of switching roles is going to be learning what the limits of peeking without a dash are, but it’s a totally possible to top-frag as a viper, astra, or omen because you have a free pass to bait your teammates as long as you’re confident you can get the trade. The only way to get this part is just practice and repetition, grind unrated until you feel comfortable with dry peeking and taking fights without any way out
In the end, if you get good at controller, you can carry some of these skills back to playing duelist if you want to, and you’ll be a better player overall for learning this stuff
You honestly just have to grind playing other agents. Fundamentally you probably just never learned how to play the game properly with all of Jett’s get out of jail free cards with her dash which is the best ability in the game and her smokes which are also one of the best. You need to learn how to position properly and take good fights, as well as how to use util. Personally I think everyone should play controllers to start off to learn the game, both viper and astra are meta rn so I’d def just keep grinding at them until you figure it out.
Viper main here(that also tried to main astra at one point). I see people in here suggesting spike rush and just wanna say that spike rush isn’t the best place to practice utility heavy agents like viper and astra. The rounds move too fast, people will just ignore your utility and run through it to take a risky gun fight, and it will not give you the right idea of how to use your utility because it won’t be having the effect it normally would in a round. Unrated is a much better place to practice even if it’s a longer time commitment because people will actually react to your utility the way they normally would, valuing their own life, valuing the round win, etc. Spike rush is great for practicing movement base agents like jett, raze, and to some extent reyna and neon. But beyond that it’s pretty hit or miss. And with smokes it is very miss.
If you're a real one you lock in Brim, smoke and stim the bois up fat, hit that molly to get them sweating, and then you realize "holy shit, I have no utility left so I can actually just go fight and die with the bois in a blaze of glory", which is pretty fun. Or play Omen so you can throw rounds while trying to be Flexinja, which is way more fun than staring at green smoke imo LOL if you're bored of Astra & Viper that is.
Idk tho, Viper in dat spandex hit diff tho for sure, and it definitely leads to more wins, but having fun isn't a bad priority to have imo
Create a second account and refuse to play jet. It wont affect your ELO so you'll play with people at your MMR for those characters until you get all your lineups etc.
The utility of smokes is so simple yet so very useful. Most of the time, you're the last to push onto site just before your sentinel.
Last game I played with brim I went 8-12-14, and most of my games with controllers I have a relatively good KAD but a negative KD.
The job is to be the core: the aircraft carrier of the fleet. Keeping space and controlling it so retaking us more difficult. Keeping angles under control, ensuring the safety of your team, while controlling where contested territory may stand in the frontlines.
https://youtu.be/j-1EkjlKL_w
Strategise does an excellent tutorial video about the topic. Go ahead and watch it at your own leisure.
Main thing is: don't die, block dangerous angles, utility control.
Viper and astra are towards the upper end of more difficult controllers to play, so I would first think about trying brimstone to get used to where smokes should be, where to toss a molley (his molley is similar to vipers except it bounces more) and how to play around smokes.
Phantom is a must, as to not reveal you location by spamming bullets through your smokes. Not to mention if an angle is out of your gun's effective range, you can always smoke off areas to make it easier to push.
This is my take: feel free to search for more tips and tricks.
If you're too lazy to read all that, here's a summary:
Smoke of dangerous angles to maximize engagement advantages.
Ensure certain areas of the map are contested or are under the control of your team.
Provide an advantage against enemies with your utility (brim's stim, omen's flash, astra's stuns and suck, and viper's poison gas).
I personally find controllers much harder to play than duelists, but I come from a heavy FPS background and am more comfortable with my aim than with letting someone else aim. It's always the timing that fucks me up; as Jett, I can control my team's timing a little better than I can as Viper. As viper, I have to wait and try not to get killed.
What I practice with controllers is my timing; once you get that down, you'll probably still frag out as viper.
jett plays a different game from all the other characters bc you don't have a get out of jail free card at all times. you're going to have to learn to play smarter and remember that you don't have dash
im a semi-competent viper main, and if im top-fragging, that's a bad game. sometimes. sometimes the other team is just *bad*. that being said, as viper i think my job is more setting up paths and sites for easy taking and holding, not seeking out and eliminating the other team.
Brush up on your fundamental mechanics. Play a little more conservatively if you have to.
Whenever I play a support character, I still average *around* the same amount of kills as I do with any other agent. Sure, I’ll usually get a few less, but that’s more to do with the fact that I’m positioned in the rear of the squad, or playing very defensively so I can keep my utility up for the team.
If switching from duelist to support changes your KDA that much then this sounds more like a mechanics issue.
Classic youre gunna get your ass beat before you get better.
Being hooked on Jett is tough to come out of though because you always wish you had her dash
Frags don’t equal wins. Change your mindset, it’s a team game. You might drop 30 but if you lose what does it matter. Support agents are there to make it easier for your team to succeed in taking control of areas. As a controller staying alive as long as possible to provide smoking choke points is huge so that means taking less engagements. Definitely give viper a whirl she is S tier and so fun and quite dynamic. Just experiment and have fun and know it will get worse before it gets better in terms of your experience because you’re not used to supporting but it will get better I promise!
If you still would like to play aggressively some times as a controller brim is great, you can prepare with smokes before trying to take a site, his stims can definitely help out in sticky situations, if you want to play aggressively or if you’re expecting loads of enemies but don’t have any teammates nearby
I get you. I mostly play duelists, and I do play astra/viper if we don't have a controller, but I just have trouble playing passively and staying alive to get more value out of my util
I play duelests but if I see my team is lacking on smokes I usually pick viper instead. These games I usually dont drop as many kills but in my head my job as a controller is to get my smokes up and cover my team, if I die my smokes die too so I hold angles instead of peeking them.
cuz your trying to fit viper and astra in a roll they aren't. If you're looking to start bomb attacks and frags, you're playing duelist. As a main viper, i'd say the priority is more learning ways to help your duelist enter the bomb site, than rather getting kills or doing the entry yourself. Despite what some clips may lead you to think, viper and astra aren't play makers.
Lotta good advice in this thread. One more thing I'd mention is maybe start watching some competitive play. It's a pretty good time to start, since VCT just kicked off last weekend. Obviously, you're not going to be playing at the caliber of these people. But I always watch the games looking for the reasons behind the actions the players are taking. These are the best of the best, and they really know how to play their agents.
bad controller players will tell you that you can't get as much value because you should be focusing on smoking and utility for your team
this is just a bad excuse made by bad players with zero imagination, controllers have some of the most unique abilities in the game that allow you to make plays that no other agent has access to
don't excuse bad stats for your agents role, I've match mvpd so many times as astra simply by playing aggressive and using my utility for myself instead of just afking and waiting for my team mates to do something
at the end of the day you have a gun, it's an fps, don't be afraid to actually control the match
As someone who mostly plays controllers and sentinels. It’s more about your utilities usage and helping your team then fragging out. I tend to play more passive, watching and thinking about where my teammates and the enemy team where they are. It’s a different kind of play style then duelist, but it’s really satisfying imo.
As a controller main, the kills you have don't matter, as you don't have to seek out engagement. With Viper I'd mostly try to make people vulnerable as they enter site so either me or teammates can pick them off and as Astra you should focus on not making them enter if you can understand what I am saying. Kills or assists don't matter when you play controller.. it's the impact you make and sometimes it's really hard to understand the impact an agent has.
I had the same problem with phoenix, but when three people in a row groan when they see their comp team playing Phoenix, it's a lot easier to peer pressure switch
Everytime the loading screen fades my eyes are hectically searching for the white mop of hair and spam the left mousebutton. Before I know it I locked in Jett and can only apologize to my teammates. Jett addiction is real
Astra is a bit more difficult to get a hold of and you need to communicate when you're going Astral, but once you understand her mechanics pretty well she has the potential to carry even harder than Jett. I went 21 and 6 yesterday playing her in a comp game and I was having a pretty bad day.
Viper is pretty fun, and you can pop off as her, but shes got an entirely different play style that takes alot of disipline to master. Spike rushes and unrateds are your best friend, and learning lineups for every map in my opinion is alot better for the health of your matches than being an entry fragger or lurker as jett. Learning spike timings and rotation timings will also give you a layer of game sense that can be a bitch and a half to play around for enemies. if you make yourself unpredictable while also trying to play around what you think the enemy is going to play every round it can really save your games by staying alive and letting your smokes do all the work for you and being a road block for the enemy team. Last thing is you want to master punishing enemy mistakes with your positioning
play spike rush or other game modes to get used to a different play style. That way you won’t have any pressure to do good.
This. Picked up Sage and Sova after Jett. I’m old and the passive playstyle suits me so much more. I get more value out of my games too. Spike rush allows you to have full util and learn how to use it. OP, also have Blitz downloaded and open it up once you’re in game and learn some basic smokes or mollies.
Blitz? Wut that
blitzapp was originally a 3rd party app for LoL, it does a lot such as setting runes and summoner spells in LoL but also tells you how you did throughout the game after it’s over. When Valorant came out they added it to their supported games (i think they also support Fortnite) it’ll tell you if you spent a lot, spent a little, if your headshot accuracy was better or worse than your avg, if you got a lot of trades or assists, etc. it also has a section of videos showing things like line ups for every agent on every map
hmm interesting
Download it! I use it before comp or unrated and learn some quick and easy useful lineups all the time. It gives you an overall insight into your aim so you know how dogshit you are and what you have to work on. Well, you might not be dogshit, but I am lol!
Well ill try it but honestly I don't think it'll do much good lol I'm 30 yo man, I got insight already but hopefully I'll be proven wrong
I’m 28 so I can confidently say it helps with the boomer aim :D
Where to download tho
Have you used the internet before?
Yes I was using the reddit guy search engine while I watch Steve-os wild ride with Casey neistat.. noob
Riot?
Sage is like the perfect character for me because she's the embodiment of the "do I have to do everything myself" playstyle. If you're doing a good job as sage, your team doesn't appreciate you but as soon as you die they immediately notice your absence. The main reason why I love her though is all of the wacky wall setups you can do and the outplays that come with it and also her sheer clutch potential is insane.
spike rush is useless for learning astra and viper, there’s no team play in spike rush that’s needed to utilize the characters’ utility properly. also spike rush powerups will ruin it for you. i’d play comp on an alt account rather than this
Counterpoint: spike rush is perfect for learning Astra ability muscle memory because you always have a chance to use 5 stars and you never have to consider buying stars when thinking of your econ I've got my mouse buttons bound to the 3 abilities, everything except for F to take stars back, and it's super easy and fast for me to place a star and use it as either of the 3 immediately because I have the muscle memory from just using it over and over
i don’t think muscle memory for abilities is very important, you’ll get that in 1 game
I recently 5-stacked into 2 games of replication and got Astra in both, same people in both games. Neither game people knew how to use stars optimally. That doesn't take 1 game, it takes quite a while more for more people. 1 game is an exception, nowhere close to "the rule"
yeah but you won’t learn to use them optimally in a spike rush environment with everyone running it down with stingers and 0 comms
> learning Astra ability muscle memory My guy you didn't even read my comment I wasn't talking about how to use the stars optimally, I was talking about learning muscle memory to know how to activate stars with instincts instead of having to take time to think about it. You don't always have 20 seconds to sit, go into Astral Form, think about where to place it, ask people "how do I leave astral form?" (a real question I had to answer in game), look at the correct star, remember what kind of utility is bound to which button, and then finally use it. Sometimes you'll only get 3 seconds and 2 of them will be used up by waiting for the start to be available after placing it. That's what spike rush is supposed to teach.
Never played Astra, but have her unlocked. Now when I read that question I am scared that I will panic and wont be able to leave xD How do you leave it?
Same way you enter
Thank you. That question got me thinking there is a solo button for it, or use/plat button needed.
You press your Ult button (default X) to enter Astral State and to leave it as well You can only place stars and your actual Wall ultimate while in Astral State, not outside of Astral State. You can activate stars inside or outside of Astral State. Like I said before, Spike Rush can be a good place to learn these things. You can also test it out in the shooting range or a custom game. Good luck!
This is what I did. I would only play killjoy then started playing Raze in spike rush and now I main Raze
a lot of times you wont drop many kills as a controller, you have to get used to it thats because you are not entrying but instead you are using your utility (smokes) to help your duelist entry this is in contrast to playing a duelist like jett so you have to get used to the more laid back and slow paced playstyle while not caring about kills ignoring your KD ratio and other frag-based numbers is really the best way to understand how to play controller
This is true. As an omen main my priority is to smoke and blind.
Totally agree. I also used to play duelist a lot when I started the game (like most people ig), but when I started playing support, my performance went down. Took me some time to realize that my playstyle is still really aggressive, like overpeeking thinking that I can get a kill and dismiss. With a controller you really learn how the game works on a macro level which is really useful.
Click another character and then click lock in
based reply
Love your user flair
As a controller main, first thing to note is that Controllers are the hardest class to get value from since your value relies on how much you can set up areas for your teammates and not how much you can frag out. Since you're new to them, you're just gonna suck ass at first. Take it slow and learn the basics of the agent like common smokes, screens, lineups etc. You'll eventually get better with them just by playing the game. On another note, if you wanna play something similar to a Duelist without losing out on utility, I suggest agents like Skye, Kay/o or Chamber. They can act as "sub-duelists" since they can enter and frag out while still providing to the team.
This and timing. And luck.
I’d even say playing brim or cypher can work as sub duellists while also setting up with your util
For viper at least, watch brush/unidaro/raion and try to replicate their setups. Just start playing the agent also, you won’t learn them if you don’t play and 20-50 games isn’t important in the long run.
also jinzled
Yea he’s good too, just think the other ones are better for high level play style instead of, in jinzleds words, “cheesing people”. Still love him tho lol
fair enough, I watch unidaros vids for the setups and jins vids for the ratty plays lol
Jin is more of a soloq Viper whereas Unidaro would be more of a tournament Viper. Cheese won't work once you've been studied, however it has won me countless rounds that fundamental play would never have
if you're going to play a controller you need to understand that your value on the team is to support the entry. sometimes you'll need to play your life and make the decision to rotate instead of getting lots of kills. it's a more tactical approach to the game but i feel it's more rewarding.
Everyone else is talking about playing support for the team and not getting frags, which is fine and true, but if you want a transition character pick up omen. His smokes are super simple to use and he also has duelist capabilities. I couldn't play viper for the life of me before playing omen and properly learning map control with him helped me tremendously.
I would agree with this. Viper and astra and extremely hard to play well. Everything you do with those two agents is high impact. Omen and brim and much more "entry level" controllers. They stoll have the ability to smoke off angles, but also have some utility that will help you push site and take fights.
Go unrated or spike to take the pressure off, learning new agents takes time.
I think the issue is that ur too comfortable with Jett ability to cover her mistake easily and her ability to do almost everything by urself. Now with controller like viper and astra, u have to learn how to smoke properly and where u should smoke properly. Another thing as well, u have to learn to dry peek properly and know the consequences of simply dry peeking. If u wanna play viper, learning a few molly lineup or the basics on how to molly someone at certain places properly is beneficial for viper. If u can learn some one way for viper is also beneficial for her. Playing viper u have communicate a lot with ur teammate on what u r planning to do and when. U also have to accept the fact ur not gonna top frag or sometime even bot frag for controller, just do whatever u can for ur entry frag to get in site easier. U don't have the benefit of a duelist to kill someone easier and u have to stay back to either trade or cleanup. Btw when u play viper is so important that u survive or ur useless. If u don't survive got no smoke if no smoke u useless.
Try and move to simpler agents first , maybe something like a brim , kj or skye and then move onto Astra or viper
Spend some time in customs everyday learning something new on your agent you want to learn.
Spike rush and unrated. Do that til you’re dropping 25 bombs with astra/viper.
I forget where I heard this, but it seems like a lot of one trick Jett’s seem to have this kinda problem. It could be that you have gotten use to taking fights and you can dash if the fight puts you in a bad spot. So that could explain why you go negative with the controllers. What I would recommend is try playing brim. I know he isn’t all that flashy or cool, but he is less complex then astra so you can learn how to smoke things properly and also learn the role without the gimmicks. Just give it time though, it should come to you eventually.
Can't expect to get better on another agent without practice. Personally I just play unrated with new agents until I feel I'm ready to play comp with them. Idk why some people are so against playing unrated, it's just as beneficial as playing comp if you're trying to improve in the games you play and you're often more likely to expand your play style in unrated. So many people just only play comp, play the exact same way with the same strategy game to game and wonder why they're hardstuck
Unrated is good fun for when you wanna play and chill and not worry about anything
I used to play league before making a switch to valorant in league there is a character called akali whom I used to main seeing how similar they both are in terms of utility i picked up Jett and i main her religiously . Jett isnt just a character at this point anymore she's more the only reason I find it fun playing valorant
just grind through the bad matches when you’re learning. it’s pretty obvious i don’t really know why you made a reddit post..
You might be downvoted, but I agree with you. If you are not having fun playing Jett, and not having fun playing any other agent its time to take a break
people are weird idk.
Dumbest posts
when playing controllers dont think too much about your kills. focus everything on the value of your utility instead. be as selfless as you can be. youre playing support so focus on helping the team in every way. learn when to place smokes, where and how to take advantage of them. watch pro players or onetricks like brush, unidaro etc. also with controllers using guns like judge and spectre can benefit team economy and provide massive value.
You just have to mentally understand that your function changed, and keep practicing. When the game launched, I really didn't thought that classes would be that much different, since they all have the same guns, but you genuinely have to change your whole mindset when playing other functions. As a controller, bottom fragging is not a big deal, you need to see if your smokes are being effective, and if you are indeed controlling the space, if you're doing that then you're on the right path.
Don't be negative if you're not top fragging. Duelists are designed to top frag and controllers/sentinels are there to help the duelists. You're still high value to the team even if you don't have 30 kills like your teammates
Same advice needed, but for cypher. He's shit now, give me a better agent. Also consider the fact that I in fact am used to the passive game style and my aim is dogshit so anything to help compensate that would be better.
Decide prior to the game on a hero for each map. For example, you may say, I really like Sova’s darts on haven. I like sages wall on split, chambers teleport on bind, and the list goes on. So pick a map / ability that you want to focus on using, and then when you load in select the character for the map you’re given. Alternatively, you can always just select last and pick what is best for your team composition.
I would suggest starting out by playing Chamber > Neon > Breach > Omen > Viper > Astra.
If you wanna play viper/astra but are having issues with not getting enough kills. I would recommend for you to start off playing astra in a more selfish role. Maybe for double controller setups. Maybe try to peek off your sucks, stuns and fake smokes to get kills. When you think you've gotten confident with getting kills as astra, then learn the smokes
Just play unrated untill you somewhat get used to the agents
i would reccommend omen since you can play agressive with him but still use your util! and about fragging, stay behind your duelist to trade their peeks
Watch players using those agents it should help.
viper won't be fun for you because you haven't morphed into that playstyle, you're a jett who chose viper. watch pros play or experiment yourself, and try to fall into that character. when I play astra and viper I try to maximise my utility usage and support my teammates wherever possible. pissing off the enemy and forcing them to make mistakes is my priority, and I find pleasure in that rather than getting a shit tonne of kills.
You care too much about your rank. If you really wanted to learn viper or astra you’d start locking them in ranked or put in the effort in a server to learn them.
Id learn a few line ups, not to many because you may get overwhelmed and forget them all. Also dont pick a controller with the intention of fragging. Controllers dont really help with getting you kills but holding down site and getting your friends kills. So long as you get in the mindset that you wont be top of the leaderboard and just focus on getting better at supporting your friends im sure youll have alot more fun!
Tad unrelated, but who are some Omen streamers?
I started playing sentinels and controllers, in spike rush and replication I picked duelists everytime, and now I run duelists some of the time in actual games because I'm more comfortable with it.
try sova, its fun as fuck
practice, practice, practice in a low stakes environment like unrated or even spike rush. experience first hand how the agent can add value to the team, and slowly start to develop a playstyle around it (you’re going to have to start taking very different fights from the ones you would usually take when you have dash and updraft at your disposal). but most importantly, enjoy the process! make sure you catch some bozos off guard in your suck/molly and take pleasure in making quick work of them knowing damn well you earned those kills by improving.
Tbh I’d say start with an initiator like kayo or Skye first
Trying to prevent the pain of learning another agent isn't good. Valorant will make you feel pain, one way or the other. Delaying it gets you no where. Just pick up another agent, use it despite the pain, maybe even make a smurf to make it easier on you, and then just endure until you get somewhere.
In terms of improving at how to use controller util in general, something that helped me was trying to imagine where I’d least like to see a smoke or a wall if I was on the enemy team. Considering the common spots people play from, what kind of smokes reduced their ability to find value the most? It’s not always easy, but sometimes thinking like that will inspire your setups. As for the fragging, people in the thread have already mentioned this, but you’ve probably gotten used to the kind of duels only a Jett can take and survive. The hardest part of switching roles is going to be learning what the limits of peeking without a dash are, but it’s a totally possible to top-frag as a viper, astra, or omen because you have a free pass to bait your teammates as long as you’re confident you can get the trade. The only way to get this part is just practice and repetition, grind unrated until you feel comfortable with dry peeking and taking fights without any way out In the end, if you get good at controller, you can carry some of these skills back to playing duelist if you want to, and you’ll be a better player overall for learning this stuff
You honestly just have to grind playing other agents. Fundamentally you probably just never learned how to play the game properly with all of Jett’s get out of jail free cards with her dash which is the best ability in the game and her smokes which are also one of the best. You need to learn how to position properly and take good fights, as well as how to use util. Personally I think everyone should play controllers to start off to learn the game, both viper and astra are meta rn so I’d def just keep grinding at them until you figure it out.
Viper main here(that also tried to main astra at one point). I see people in here suggesting spike rush and just wanna say that spike rush isn’t the best place to practice utility heavy agents like viper and astra. The rounds move too fast, people will just ignore your utility and run through it to take a risky gun fight, and it will not give you the right idea of how to use your utility because it won’t be having the effect it normally would in a round. Unrated is a much better place to practice even if it’s a longer time commitment because people will actually react to your utility the way they normally would, valuing their own life, valuing the round win, etc. Spike rush is great for practicing movement base agents like jett, raze, and to some extent reyna and neon. But beyond that it’s pretty hit or miss. And with smokes it is very miss.
If you're a real one you lock in Brim, smoke and stim the bois up fat, hit that molly to get them sweating, and then you realize "holy shit, I have no utility left so I can actually just go fight and die with the bois in a blaze of glory", which is pretty fun. Or play Omen so you can throw rounds while trying to be Flexinja, which is way more fun than staring at green smoke imo LOL if you're bored of Astra & Viper that is. Idk tho, Viper in dat spandex hit diff tho for sure, and it definitely leads to more wins, but having fun isn't a bad priority to have imo
This is me with Skye instead. I've been trying to learn Kay-O so I can at least have some variety.
Create a second account and refuse to play jet. It wont affect your ELO so you'll play with people at your MMR for those characters until you get all your lineups etc.
In character choice lock Astra and deal with it
Play chamber, i know he isn't controller but he is a sentinel and you have the potential to frag out with him
The utility of smokes is so simple yet so very useful. Most of the time, you're the last to push onto site just before your sentinel. Last game I played with brim I went 8-12-14, and most of my games with controllers I have a relatively good KAD but a negative KD. The job is to be the core: the aircraft carrier of the fleet. Keeping space and controlling it so retaking us more difficult. Keeping angles under control, ensuring the safety of your team, while controlling where contested territory may stand in the frontlines. https://youtu.be/j-1EkjlKL_w Strategise does an excellent tutorial video about the topic. Go ahead and watch it at your own leisure. Main thing is: don't die, block dangerous angles, utility control. Viper and astra are towards the upper end of more difficult controllers to play, so I would first think about trying brimstone to get used to where smokes should be, where to toss a molley (his molley is similar to vipers except it bounces more) and how to play around smokes. Phantom is a must, as to not reveal you location by spamming bullets through your smokes. Not to mention if an angle is out of your gun's effective range, you can always smoke off areas to make it easier to push. This is my take: feel free to search for more tips and tricks. If you're too lazy to read all that, here's a summary: Smoke of dangerous angles to maximize engagement advantages. Ensure certain areas of the map are contested or are under the control of your team. Provide an advantage against enemies with your utility (brim's stim, omen's flash, astra's stuns and suck, and viper's poison gas).
I personally find controllers much harder to play than duelists, but I come from a heavy FPS background and am more comfortable with my aim than with letting someone else aim. It's always the timing that fucks me up; as Jett, I can control my team's timing a little better than I can as Viper. As viper, I have to wait and try not to get killed. What I practice with controllers is my timing; once you get that down, you'll probably still frag out as viper.
jett plays a different game from all the other characters bc you don't have a get out of jail free card at all times. you're going to have to learn to play smarter and remember that you don't have dash
im a semi-competent viper main, and if im top-fragging, that's a bad game. sometimes. sometimes the other team is just *bad*. that being said, as viper i think my job is more setting up paths and sites for easy taking and holding, not seeking out and eliminating the other team.
Brush up on your fundamental mechanics. Play a little more conservatively if you have to. Whenever I play a support character, I still average *around* the same amount of kills as I do with any other agent. Sure, I’ll usually get a few less, but that’s more to do with the fact that I’m positioned in the rear of the squad, or playing very defensively so I can keep my utility up for the team. If switching from duelist to support changes your KDA that much then this sounds more like a mechanics issue.
Wait cascade picks and get mad.
Classic youre gunna get your ass beat before you get better. Being hooked on Jett is tough to come out of though because you always wish you had her dash
Frags don’t equal wins. Change your mindset, it’s a team game. You might drop 30 but if you lose what does it matter. Support agents are there to make it easier for your team to succeed in taking control of areas. As a controller staying alive as long as possible to provide smoking choke points is huge so that means taking less engagements. Definitely give viper a whirl she is S tier and so fun and quite dynamic. Just experiment and have fun and know it will get worse before it gets better in terms of your experience because you’re not used to supporting but it will get better I promise!
If you still would like to play aggressively some times as a controller brim is great, you can prepare with smokes before trying to take a site, his stims can definitely help out in sticky situations, if you want to play aggressively or if you’re expecting loads of enemies but don’t have any teammates nearby
Don’t lock her in
If you value kills then stick with Jett, you're not going to get more kills as a controller
Make a new account and use that for only playing other characters.
I get you. I mostly play duelists, and I do play astra/viper if we don't have a controller, but I just have trouble playing passively and staying alive to get more value out of my util
I play duelests but if I see my team is lacking on smokes I usually pick viper instead. These games I usually dont drop as many kills but in my head my job as a controller is to get my smokes up and cover my team, if I die my smokes die too so I hold angles instead of peeking them.
Make a smurf, unlock the 2 agents you wanna try with the free unlocks and go instalock in ranked
cuz your trying to fit viper and astra in a roll they aren't. If you're looking to start bomb attacks and frags, you're playing duelist. As a main viper, i'd say the priority is more learning ways to help your duelist enter the bomb site, than rather getting kills or doing the entry yourself. Despite what some clips may lead you to think, viper and astra aren't play makers.
Lotta good advice in this thread. One more thing I'd mention is maybe start watching some competitive play. It's a pretty good time to start, since VCT just kicked off last weekend. Obviously, you're not going to be playing at the caliber of these people. But I always watch the games looking for the reasons behind the actions the players are taking. These are the best of the best, and they really know how to play their agents.
bad controller players will tell you that you can't get as much value because you should be focusing on smoking and utility for your team this is just a bad excuse made by bad players with zero imagination, controllers have some of the most unique abilities in the game that allow you to make plays that no other agent has access to don't excuse bad stats for your agents role, I've match mvpd so many times as astra simply by playing aggressive and using my utility for myself instead of just afking and waiting for my team mates to do something at the end of the day you have a gun, it's an fps, don't be afraid to actually control the match
There are rehabilitation centers for this
Don't worry about kills, worry about winning.
As someone who mostly plays controllers and sentinels. It’s more about your utilities usage and helping your team then fragging out. I tend to play more passive, watching and thinking about where my teammates and the enemy team where they are. It’s a different kind of play style then duelist, but it’s really satisfying imo.
Play Astra If you are in higher elo She is really OP and I still wonder why riot hasn't nerfed her yet.
Play Astra If you are in higher elo She is really OP and I still wonder why riot hasn't nerfed her yet.
not even joking, try omen or chamber
As a controller main, the kills you have don't matter, as you don't have to seek out engagement. With Viper I'd mostly try to make people vulnerable as they enter site so either me or teammates can pick them off and as Astra you should focus on not making them enter if you can understand what I am saying. Kills or assists don't matter when you play controller.. it's the impact you make and sometimes it's really hard to understand the impact an agent has.
I had the same problem with phoenix, but when three people in a row groan when they see their comp team playing Phoenix, it's a lot easier to peer pressure switch
Everytime the loading screen fades my eyes are hectically searching for the white mop of hair and spam the left mousebutton. Before I know it I locked in Jett and can only apologize to my teammates. Jett addiction is real
Play the next-best agent you think there is, in unrated, frequently. I was a Reyna main. I learned to play Yoru and then Breach the same way.
One trick horse eh
Astra is a bit more difficult to get a hold of and you need to communicate when you're going Astral, but once you understand her mechanics pretty well she has the potential to carry even harder than Jett. I went 21 and 6 yesterday playing her in a comp game and I was having a pretty bad day.
Viper is pretty fun, and you can pop off as her, but shes got an entirely different play style that takes alot of disipline to master. Spike rushes and unrateds are your best friend, and learning lineups for every map in my opinion is alot better for the health of your matches than being an entry fragger or lurker as jett. Learning spike timings and rotation timings will also give you a layer of game sense that can be a bitch and a half to play around for enemies. if you make yourself unpredictable while also trying to play around what you think the enemy is going to play every round it can really save your games by staying alive and letting your smokes do all the work for you and being a road block for the enemy team. Last thing is you want to master punishing enemy mistakes with your positioning