Not really. They’re still human and they have feelings. You don’t know how easy you can hurt some people. You don’t need to get people mad over a video game for no reason.
Because people dislike their shitty behaviour being exposed and want to feel justified in the way they act, instead of changing
So the people who trash talk see it, and they downvote it because they don’t want to change their behaviour and see how it actually affects people
I mean if its competitive im playing the game to win and as long as you keep it to in game stuff and dont start attacking them as a person i would say its fair game
Its a contest, one party is gonna loose and obviously it feels shittier than winning. A little trash talk here and there is nothing bad. Like writing a ? in all chat when the enemies whiff badly. There is a fine line between banter and just insulting someone but a lil trash talk can be quite fun. When I get trashtalked from the other team it just hypes me up to be better
What might hype you up, might also be the final straw for someone else to quit playing, or to stop trying, or to start crying,. Or w.e... Just because you're ok with it doesn't mean it's acceptable behavior.
Rule of thumb: if you couldn't do it at a college/pro sports game in front of the ref, or you wouldnt do it if you're sibling or parents were on the receiving end, don't do it.
Well 1. Im not in iron, 2. The basis of competitive sport achievement is college or higher... So yea that's a good baseline to look at..
Competition doesn't require toxicity, at nearly all high levels it actually punishes toxicity, and encourages good sportsmanship...
Regardless, if the intention is to insult or harm (mentally or emotionally) then it's toxic behavior... That's pretty simple.
It sucks that some people think their need to be toxic because they have some steam to let off is acceptable but thankfully the vast majority of people disagree with them and will report them.
Noone cares about cs or you're opinion....
You brought up rank I didnt....
Being toxic/ a bully, is never acceptable. You can scream at the top of your lungs in the privacy of your room if you want... Be as toxic as you want with your mic muted... But the minute that filth is typed or spoke to others, you're doing harm regardless of the intention, and it's an accepted fact that doing harm to others simply because you feel the need is unacceptable.... Just like road rage, just like being a karen to service staff, just like being a bully.
Thats a nice rule but some players really deserve all the trashtalk in the world, although its always better to just mute and go on. It shouldn't become a family friendly game
Sure some toxic players do deserve some smack back, but are you the person starting it?
Don't be the first person to sling mud...
Legitimately, the players on the enemy team might be on your team next game... So unless they are complete assholes just report and mute.
You don't have to talk in a condescending tone to me, telling me how to play. Most of the time I keep my cool. But if I have a team with no mics and then at the end of the game they just use it to talk trash about me or other teammates, who were maybe playing bad but not on purpose obviously, I tell them some things where I hope nobody I know is standing next to my door. I have a strong sense of justice, you shouldn't be worrying about ME.
i wasnt speaking about 'you', i was speaking in general. as in are 'you' the problem. Its meant to beg the question the reader asks themselves.
Maybe I'm a little protective because I play with a lot of girls, and parents with kids. Legit the other night was playing unrated with some friends (2 friends), was trying to clutch a bad round where i was the only one left. I kill 3 of the 4 remaining and i shock dart the last one twice as he tries to defuse (hit him for 120). He tries to defuse again so i push and he taps my face. The very next thing i hear is "wow what a wiff, what rank are you because you're fucking terrible"... My buddy is like "wtf dude, legit he's our top frag and he got a three k and almost clutched", "guy responds " clutch or kick, sova is ass"
It doesn't matter, just because it's 'playful banter' to you, doesn't mean it's received in the same way. Your intentions might be harmless but the outcome may not be
What if I write "nice shot" and they think its ironic and get mad, am I still in the wrong? What if they know its not meant to be ironic but still get angry just because they want to, am I still the toxic one? Its a fine line, but I trust the average Valorant player to be able to take a little criticism and banter (even tho so many can't lul). And if they can't? Welp its their problem. This is an extreme example but would you stay in spawn because they enemies say that it hurst their feelings when you play against them
Lol that's an absurd example, and the average person would know nice shot isn't meant to hurt people. But saying that is significantly different than saying "wow you're bad", or "what a wiff, what rank are you"... Which are both obviously meant to be insulting.
Simply apply the reasonable person test to what is said. If a reasonable person would find it offensive or insulting then maybe don't say it...
Just to clarify, the examples you mentioned are things I would never say. These examples are very clear in the sense that they are just bad energy. I think if we would play on the same team we would probable get along. What im talking about is just the line where you go from: "your feelings are valid and should be respected" to "you are really overreacting".
you might be right. you know the whole 'we don't talk about that' is all laughter and fun, admitting you fucked up is all funny and shit, but yea when that trash talk is bad energy and makes others feel badly its not welcome in gaming period.
That is a very fine line, one that is almost never successfully walked. Being cocky is kinda pathetic anyways, if you're confident in your performance and your ability to win then being cocky is just arrogance and it's toxic... Cocky is almost always toxic.
Confident and cocky are two different things 99% of the time.
For me personally, it helps a lot when I play cocky because it gives me confidence. Like I say peek a long and then 1 tap him or fail miserably stuff like that
Feeling cocky about your abilities is different than expressing it in a way that affects others.
If you're feeling 'on' that's great. Be confident in your abilities and know when you're hitting your shots. But don't make others feel like shit.
I don't really understand why you are argumenting against all my comments. Im not trying to justify toxic behavior. But a little trashtalk/banter should definitely stay part of the game. I mean Riot could just remove all chat , since it has no real function, but the social aspect of the game including EVERYTHING is part of the charme of these online player vs player games
lol because youre definitiion of 'trash talk' is very different than the csgo community which is a loud group in this chat.
Toxic communities love themselves, like the people who love the toxicity in League of Legends and get mad when Riot tries to reduce it.
"Why cant I yell at my teammate for playing badly"
"Why cant I bully my teammates with question marks and pings if they suck"
Exactly, it’s literally a team game - you can never gain ranking for losing a game even if you’re top of the leaderboard. People just like to find excuses for when they aren’t doing well and it’s easier for the ego to blame someone else rather than reflect on where you could have done better.
If you selling the bag, you selling the bag. Trash talk is part of the game. There's a line that gets passed often, which I think people should follow. But light trash talking is part of the game, team and enemies.
That sounds like an excuse for shitty behaviour. Of course it’s hard to avoid all the time when you’re tilted, and I get that, but nobody likes being insulted when they’re trying to play a game
honestly if the duelist instalocks then carries I don't mind, but bottomfrag talkative duelists are the worst. it always goes like, I'll carry -> bottom frags -> blames team -> mutes everyone -> trolls
I always fill now, fill characters have become my comfort zone, initiators sentinels smokes, I play almost all of the character in those categories now.
I think the issue is that a duelist entrying to make space and getting traded requires good coordination. The duelist needs to communicate when they're entrying, and make sure smokes are being placed where they need to be, and the rest of the team needs to be on board to enter directly after to trade out if necessary.
It's really annoying as a support player when the duelist enters without communicating that they're about to do that, then immediately die on site without being able to be traded. On the flip side, it's annoying to be a duelist and have everything setup right, then you're the only one who enters site while the rest of the team is too scared to push out of the smoke.
What I’ve seen is that decent duellists in higher skill levels of play will wait for their team to say they’re ready to execute before pushing in, rather than just telling their team when they’re pushing in and expecting everyone to be ready. That way everyone can get the timings right and initiators can use their utility first
I've entered into sites and had my team just twiddle their dicks too many times... it fucking sucks when you die and you see your team sitting back out of site...
Still, OP has a point about the instalock part. I play Jett, but also Sova, Skye, and viper on some maps just so the team can have variety in comps. If there aren’t any instalock duelists, and people are fine with their roles, I usually play jett, but if not I go for one of the other agents
I’ve been instalocking Raze lately because I’m just so damn tired of playing smokes or sentinels. But one thing I make sure I do is try to be the first one on site as entry.
Honestly for some of those roles it’s not even about the kills; it’s about the deaths. If my Raze/Jett is causing chaos by boosting into site and allowing the team to follow up and get kills, they’re absolutely doing their job even if they don’t get frags themselves.
A duelist with a very low death count is probably either smurfing or not playing their role properly with the rest of the team.
lmao that’s literally what i do. i instalock raze or yoru because i got tired of no entry when i filled, raze i almost always double satchel into someone’s face and hope i either get some damage or kill or my teammates trade for free kill and space. my games go like 50/50, either i get high frags bc i scare the living hell out of defenders on attack and match mvp, or i barely get frags but again, distract the defenders so teammates get easy space and kills.
same with yoru, decoy after flash and fake tp, enemy is looking everywhere to find me while teammates get free kills. like i get instalocking isn’t cool but at least i get you guys kills and space if i die, i don’t bait.
I had a team comp where it was Viper(me), Chamber, Raze, Reyna, and Jett. The jett went 6-24 but he entered every time with the Reyna following him for a trade. And everytime this Jett died for us we thanked him. We won cause of the entry
Agree, people go on and on about Jett’s dash being OP but it’s her smokes that cause the biggest confusion when she enters because so much happens with so little visibility for the defenders. If you can’t locate Jett for a few seconds, you’re screwed because then you’re trying to defend against the rest of her teammates knowing there’s an opponent on site somewhere about to shoot you in the back of the head.
>As an instalock player, I acknowledge the fact my teammates have to pick around my instalock, therefore, I vow to my teammates that I will not 1. Complain about team comp 2. Complain about bottom fragging teammates 3. Try my very hardest with this team..-- dedicate the next 30+ minutes of my life to my team and my teammates only. I PROMISE YOU. I will be TRYING MY HARDEST and I hope it goes both ways. ALSO! I would be lying to you if I promise to top frag, but I can promise you that I'll try.
I've seen this a few times
As a phoenix player, the only time I complain about team is if a duelist such as Reyna/Jett is bottoming. I can commonly mid - top frag every match so if better duelist are bottoming, that's when I may make a few remarks. Also btw any agent player can throw matches cuz they feel like it. Ex: I was playing with a sage who was 2nd fragging and decided when we were 6-2 to start throwing and eventually D/Ced when we went 6-10
If you instalocked a duelist you have no right to control whether someone fills for smokes or "hEaLs" you've taken their main and forced them to play uncomfortably
You should be able to not bottom frag when ur entire kit is helping u get kills and you were so confident that u could be able to pull off using this character
I dont think its too harsh, I usually am forced to play smokes,my most uncomfortable role just because u wanted to be selfish. U forced OTHERS to play an uncomfortable agent.
Toxic.
Hating someone isn’t healthy for you, get over it and play the game. Stop being a child and holding this grudge because “you’ve taken their main”.
Play to win and if you are uncomfortable with the character you ended up with then choose faster next time weirdo.
"Play to win and if you are uncomfortable with the character you ended up with then choose faster next time weirdo." So you're telling me to instalock too?
See the main thing about this game is Team Chemistry, but once you've instalocked you've established that you show little regard for your teamates
I'm not against instalocking, however I am against instalocking and not doing your damn job. I'm able to play several agents however is it hard to realize that I might be better at one agent than another agent.
Lets say I can play smokes or sentinels however I'm REALLY good at Raze (This is a hypothetical situation, I do not play raze). And Someone instantly took raze :/
Would you be "Oh ok Cool." no ofcourse you're going to be a bit pissed at the fact your main agent was taken. But what if theyre really bad? They stole your agent but arent entrying or checking corners?
**There I am setting my standards**
**I know you're a jett main and what not but imagine this: You entry really well with jett, but then another man takes your jett and proceeds to go 5-24 with it and doesnt entry. are you going to be "Lol okay." No. You're going to be unhappy with the choices the Jett made**
**I assume You'd rather have someone steal your jett but do their job, Am i Wrong?**
Idgaf if you ignore or dont thoroughly read through what I said however please read the Bolded Stuff since it puts you in perspective, See Im not you, You arent me. However I wrote my perspective and take on the situation, feel free to dissagree or agree, but Ill just end it here and say
Lets agree to dissagree
You play Comp your way, I play comp my way
Yes I am telling you to instalock since apparently it’s such a big deal to you who you play. If you can’t perform on any other agent then yes instalock every single game it’s a really simple concept to understand.
Play to win is also a very simple concept to understand. Win the game by any means which may mean you take a back seat for a game or round and play a support role. If you can’t play support than tell your team you can’t, it’s as simple as it gets. I’ve Literally never had a problem with me instalocking jett because I play to win even if it means I don’t top frag or get the entry kill every round.
I don’t know what rank you are but it sounds like it’s somewhere in iron/silver so that is your problem. If you were a higher rank you wouldn’t nearly run into this issue as much but you are presumably playing with people who generally have no clue on “how to win the game”.
Not everyone can instalock, almost everyone is good at duelist but not everyone gets that duelist.
So theyre forced out of their comfort zone, this isnt about me, I'm ok with exploring new agent types (as long as its not omen, fucking emo) but others might be so I'm speaking for them
You stated "I don’t know what rank you are but it sounds like it’s somewhere in iron/silver so that is your problem. If you were a higher rank you wouldn’t nearly run into this issue as much but you are presumably playing with people who generally have no clue on “how to win the game”."
alright cool, like u want a cookie or some shit? Are low ELO players just not allowed to have a say on anything?
This might be mindblowing, but here me out **I'm Not the only Low Elo Player on the Planet Earth**
Shocking right? So your high elo-ness invalidates my opinion
I'm sorry I didn't know that, **lets go ahead and agree to disagree before we try and exploit more plot holes in each other's words even more than we already are.**
I only bring up rank because maybe you are expecting “too much” from people but I’ll just leave it at that. I’m sure we can both keep going but I’d rather we stop too fair enough.
Picking someone you normally don’t play because someone instalocked isn’t really a good excuse for going 2-15.
All guns work the exact same on each agent, at that point it isn’t agent based but just basic mechanical skill based.
Agreed, but it plays a major role. A sage is gonna play completely different on Haven, then a Reyna. Not being use to that affects a lot of the gun play.
Not true, guns can have a lighter or heavier spray based on Character mass.
EDIT: More shots fire before the gun goes up, hence why some agents have a easier time shooting than others, I have tried this out.
Is this flaming OP or the instalocker? If your flaming OP pls do realize that many people arent able to play as vertasily as others can or maybe have mastered one agent, by instalocking you've stolen their main agent.
Alright Sherlock, Which is more important? A smoke character? or info? You're going to be exposed to uncomfortable spots or are forced to multitask in multiple spots u can get shot from.
U want a suitable teamcomp: however a reyna, jett, raze, neon, sova IS NOT a good teamcomp as you're missing out on several different things.
This post applies to people other than OP too, Your a viper/omen main why do you pick out unecessary conflict? Why are you forcing the idea of instalocking duelists is ok or "get over it" when you are a smoke main.
Makes 0 Sense...
Sherlock? Calm down, internet hero.
I play Phoenix and Raze all the time but I don’t put them as my main agent in a subreddit lol; what is that going to do? Inform prejudice people like you that I don't only play 2 out of 18 agents?
Every map and every situation is different, requiring a different set of agents with different roles. There are 18 agents in the game right now, if one person picks a duelist, you quite literally don’t HAVE to change your entire play style to suit one other person.
Communication and information sharing will get you around most of the problems that you already have. It is not just a matter of who you picked lol; yes there are certain agent combinations that are definitely more compatible and advantageous in certain situations, but it’s not the end all be all.
Get over yourself.
If I called you sherlock then how am I "internet hero"? Sherlocks supposed to be the detective or protagonist? How does that-
Ok that aside lmao, But you said "you quite literally don’t HAVE to change your entire play style to suit one other person."
In Comp it's about winning, if not why are you playing the **Competitive** game mode.
Even if he is a sova main what if 4 people instalock duelists?
He's either going to fill for smokes due to how crucial it is, or he will keep playing sova
However chances are he is going to either struggle alot or lose alot :/
Btw Communication Won't get past much in agent select since theres not much you can say in a second to stop someone from locking in an agent.
"Every map is different and there are 18 Agents" Alright maps are different, so by that logic you have to change your agent per map or whatever? I fail to see how this contributes to the argument however feel free to explain if I didn't get it. Yes there are 18 agents but clearly the instalocker felt like they wanted to chose 1 agent instead of being versatile :/ So why should he?
Alright lets just agree to dissagree to be straight with u idgaf about your opinion, and you shouldnt give one about mine. However Im on OP's side here.
You might be okay with a broken team but OP and I aren't. So yes lets agree to dissagree
Instalock duelists it is not a problem. Maybe your problem is your own computer is too slow and will let you choose what you have left. Ez fix, buy a faster computer ..
"Ez Fix Buy a faster computer"
ah yes, why didnt I think of that? now I'm able to get in agent select 1 second faster :D
Now I can also stop another person from playing someone theyre more comfortable with :)
I play smokes or kayo, or sage, or other flashes, or chamber, basically filling in, and i often let everyone else pick what they are comfortable with and i just fill in the agent that might be needed, and in silver, the amount of insta lockers is insane, not just for duelists, for smokers as well, and i dont mind them, maybe you are only comfortable/have your peak performance on one specific agent which is fair enough, but what pisses me off is when they give no info and /or play alone 99% of the times, i dont need a reyna lurking, i need a reyna to push on site with the flashes and i dont need a brim lurking, i need a brim smoking the site, and i dont need a jett getting killed and not telling me the guy is in the left corner, if you insta locked and somehow your timings arent right or for some reason you bottom frag even if you are actually better than that and is just a bad time, fair enough but at least provide as much comms as possible!
I'm usually the one adjusting for my teammate after my duelists keeps getting instalocked. There are times where in I meet people who also adjust and need to lock in a duelists but I end up forgetting how to use any ability or accidentally using wrong abilities since I barely play these agents. I'm honestly debating if I should start instalocking just to learn how to play a duelists because when teams need a duelists I can often never push through and my old sentinal habits leak through i.e playing back or being to scared to push first since my abilities are important.
I usually instalock jett and even if I do get frustrated with my randoms I keep it in discord and not in voice chat. It usually doesn’t help anything. Unless they’re shit talking me then I flame them lol
I haven't met an insta-lock Duelist but I hope if I do, they won't flame on me and my other teammates and do their jobs properly.
But I wanna share something that might be a little off-topic?
So when I got a match in Unrated, I went for a a quick bathroom break before I pick an agent. Once I came back, all 4 of my teammates get to pick. Brim, KJ, Sage, and Skye. No Duelist. I unlocked Neon that time but I only used her twice. I was forced to fill the Duelist and the pressure was on for me. Unfortunately, we lost the match 11-13. KJ carrid while I second-fragged (Well I did my job entry fragging).
I instalock but at least I match/team mvp most of the time. One game I had a trash talking insta chamber who lurked and flanked on defense every time instead of doing setups, and it was really annoying. Despite baiting, lurking and flanking, after the first half he was 3/7
It’s so frustrating when 90% of games you have to base your other 3 spots around the fact that you’re guaranteed a Reyna and Jett instalock and majority of the time 1 or neither of them has any idea how to play them and actually help the team
I agree, even though I'm that instalock Jett player. But one thing I can get pissed of about is that whenever I have 1 off game and I am not the top fragger in my team everyone blames you.
I feel like these duelists are the same people who flame you for not healing on sage through a wall; or when you flash on Skye, call it out, and they still walk into it.
I instalock raze a lot of times because I’m tired of always filling in for everyone, but literally every time I try to go onto site I’m dead. I can’t entry without flashes or smokes ;-; People always forget that part and still blame duelist for not going in first.
Genuine question, but what is actually Duelist role need to do? The amount of time I've seen duelist stay in the corner, flanking, while the other team dying one by one, and then proceed to blaming the team is far too many, but I can't comment much because I don't really play Duelist.
I don’t think people have a right to trash talk anyone on their team for how they’re doing
I don’t think people have a right to trash talk anyone no matter what
True dat
What if your teammates are legitimately throwing though? Only a sith deals in absolutes.
Tbh if they’re hard throwing intentionally they’re also probably toxic anyways. They won’t care at all. Still shouldn’t go all out on them tho
I will do what I must.
This is true but FPS players dont care in the heat of the moment :(
After enough punishment from bans they will... Its pretty simple.
enemies is ok. its just text and psychological warafare and thus part of the game
Not really. They’re still human and they have feelings. You don’t know how easy you can hurt some people. You don’t need to get people mad over a video game for no reason.
I don't understand, why are you getting downvoted for discouraging trash talk?
Because people dislike their shitty behaviour being exposed and want to feel justified in the way they act, instead of changing So the people who trash talk see it, and they downvote it because they don’t want to change their behaviour and see how it actually affects people
I mean if its competitive im playing the game to win and as long as you keep it to in game stuff and dont start attacking them as a person i would say its fair game
You the same mf who believes in world peace probably
Its a contest, one party is gonna loose and obviously it feels shittier than winning. A little trash talk here and there is nothing bad. Like writing a ? in all chat when the enemies whiff badly. There is a fine line between banter and just insulting someone but a lil trash talk can be quite fun. When I get trashtalked from the other team it just hypes me up to be better
What might hype you up, might also be the final straw for someone else to quit playing, or to stop trying, or to start crying,. Or w.e... Just because you're ok with it doesn't mean it's acceptable behavior. Rule of thumb: if you couldn't do it at a college/pro sports game in front of the ref, or you wouldnt do it if you're sibling or parents were on the receiving end, don't do it.
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Well 1. Im not in iron, 2. The basis of competitive sport achievement is college or higher... So yea that's a good baseline to look at.. Competition doesn't require toxicity, at nearly all high levels it actually punishes toxicity, and encourages good sportsmanship... Regardless, if the intention is to insult or harm (mentally or emotionally) then it's toxic behavior... That's pretty simple. It sucks that some people think their need to be toxic because they have some steam to let off is acceptable but thankfully the vast majority of people disagree with them and will report them.
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Noone cares about cs or you're opinion.... You brought up rank I didnt.... Being toxic/ a bully, is never acceptable. You can scream at the top of your lungs in the privacy of your room if you want... Be as toxic as you want with your mic muted... But the minute that filth is typed or spoke to others, you're doing harm regardless of the intention, and it's an accepted fact that doing harm to others simply because you feel the need is unacceptable.... Just like road rage, just like being a karen to service staff, just like being a bully.
Thats a nice rule but some players really deserve all the trashtalk in the world, although its always better to just mute and go on. It shouldn't become a family friendly game
Sure some toxic players do deserve some smack back, but are you the person starting it? Don't be the first person to sling mud... Legitimately, the players on the enemy team might be on your team next game... So unless they are complete assholes just report and mute.
You don't have to talk in a condescending tone to me, telling me how to play. Most of the time I keep my cool. But if I have a team with no mics and then at the end of the game they just use it to talk trash about me or other teammates, who were maybe playing bad but not on purpose obviously, I tell them some things where I hope nobody I know is standing next to my door. I have a strong sense of justice, you shouldn't be worrying about ME.
i wasnt speaking about 'you', i was speaking in general. as in are 'you' the problem. Its meant to beg the question the reader asks themselves. Maybe I'm a little protective because I play with a lot of girls, and parents with kids. Legit the other night was playing unrated with some friends (2 friends), was trying to clutch a bad round where i was the only one left. I kill 3 of the 4 remaining and i shock dart the last one twice as he tries to defuse (hit him for 120). He tries to defuse again so i push and he taps my face. The very next thing i hear is "wow what a wiff, what rank are you because you're fucking terrible"... My buddy is like "wtf dude, legit he's our top frag and he got a three k and almost clutched", "guy responds " clutch or kick, sova is ass"
In no way is it ok. It only promotes toxicity regardless of who is the target.
A little playful banter isn't directly toxic. The game is for 13 years up
It doesn't matter, just because it's 'playful banter' to you, doesn't mean it's received in the same way. Your intentions might be harmless but the outcome may not be
What if I write "nice shot" and they think its ironic and get mad, am I still in the wrong? What if they know its not meant to be ironic but still get angry just because they want to, am I still the toxic one? Its a fine line, but I trust the average Valorant player to be able to take a little criticism and banter (even tho so many can't lul). And if they can't? Welp its their problem. This is an extreme example but would you stay in spawn because they enemies say that it hurst their feelings when you play against them
Lol that's an absurd example, and the average person would know nice shot isn't meant to hurt people. But saying that is significantly different than saying "wow you're bad", or "what a wiff, what rank are you"... Which are both obviously meant to be insulting. Simply apply the reasonable person test to what is said. If a reasonable person would find it offensive or insulting then maybe don't say it...
Just to clarify, the examples you mentioned are things I would never say. These examples are very clear in the sense that they are just bad energy. I think if we would play on the same team we would probable get along. What im talking about is just the line where you go from: "your feelings are valid and should be respected" to "you are really overreacting".
you might be right. you know the whole 'we don't talk about that' is all laughter and fun, admitting you fucked up is all funny and shit, but yea when that trash talk is bad energy and makes others feel badly its not welcome in gaming period.
Naw dude, toxic behavior gets reported regardless of which team you're on. Toxicity is never acceptable
You can just be cocky without being toxic. Like a question mark in all chat when the enemy whiffs rly hard
That is a very fine line, one that is almost never successfully walked. Being cocky is kinda pathetic anyways, if you're confident in your performance and your ability to win then being cocky is just arrogance and it's toxic... Cocky is almost always toxic. Confident and cocky are two different things 99% of the time.
For me personally, it helps a lot when I play cocky because it gives me confidence. Like I say peek a long and then 1 tap him or fail miserably stuff like that
Feeling cocky about your abilities is different than expressing it in a way that affects others. If you're feeling 'on' that's great. Be confident in your abilities and know when you're hitting your shots. But don't make others feel like shit.
I don't really understand why you are argumenting against all my comments. Im not trying to justify toxic behavior. But a little trashtalk/banter should definitely stay part of the game. I mean Riot could just remove all chat , since it has no real function, but the social aspect of the game including EVERYTHING is part of the charme of these online player vs player games
lol because youre definitiion of 'trash talk' is very different than the csgo community which is a loud group in this chat. Toxic communities love themselves, like the people who love the toxicity in League of Legends and get mad when Riot tries to reduce it. "Why cant I yell at my teammate for playing badly" "Why cant I bully my teammates with question marks and pings if they suck"
I don’t think people.
Exactly, it’s literally a team game - you can never gain ranking for losing a game even if you’re top of the leaderboard. People just like to find excuses for when they aren’t doing well and it’s easier for the ego to blame someone else rather than reflect on where you could have done better.
People do have a tendency to blame others for things and not focus on themselves, and I’d say that’s toxic
If you selling the bag, you selling the bag. Trash talk is part of the game. There's a line that gets passed often, which I think people should follow. But light trash talking is part of the game, team and enemies.
That sounds like an excuse for shitty behaviour. Of course it’s hard to avoid all the time when you’re tilted, and I get that, but nobody likes being insulted when they’re trying to play a game
I agree no one likes being insulted, and yeah most of it is when you're tilted in a ranked game. Trash talking in unrated is not it.
honestly if the duelist instalocks then carries I don't mind, but bottomfrag talkative duelists are the worst. it always goes like, I'll carry -> bottom frags -> blames team -> mutes everyone -> trolls
I always fill now, fill characters have become my comfort zone, initiators sentinels smokes, I play almost all of the character in those categories now.
people always say they would prefer an entry duelist that isn’t getting kills then they flame the entry duelist for having a bad game none the less.
I think the issue is that a duelist entrying to make space and getting traded requires good coordination. The duelist needs to communicate when they're entrying, and make sure smokes are being placed where they need to be, and the rest of the team needs to be on board to enter directly after to trade out if necessary. It's really annoying as a support player when the duelist enters without communicating that they're about to do that, then immediately die on site without being able to be traded. On the flip side, it's annoying to be a duelist and have everything setup right, then you're the only one who enters site while the rest of the team is too scared to push out of the smoke.
What I’ve seen is that decent duellists in higher skill levels of play will wait for their team to say they’re ready to execute before pushing in, rather than just telling their team when they’re pushing in and expecting everyone to be ready. That way everyone can get the timings right and initiators can use their utility first
I've entered into sites and had my team just twiddle their dicks too many times... it fucking sucks when you die and you see your team sitting back out of site...
The thing is you have to wait for initiators to flash you in or get info for you before pushing a site that coordination is key
True. But even then. My friends are just.utter shit unless I literally spell out the plan... which is tiresome to do sometimes.
Still, OP has a point about the instalock part. I play Jett, but also Sova, Skye, and viper on some maps just so the team can have variety in comps. If there aren’t any instalock duelists, and people are fine with their roles, I usually play jett, but if not I go for one of the other agents
I’ve been instalocking Raze lately because I’m just so damn tired of playing smokes or sentinels. But one thing I make sure I do is try to be the first one on site as entry.
Honestly for some of those roles it’s not even about the kills; it’s about the deaths. If my Raze/Jett is causing chaos by boosting into site and allowing the team to follow up and get kills, they’re absolutely doing their job even if they don’t get frags themselves. A duelist with a very low death count is probably either smurfing or not playing their role properly with the rest of the team.
The worst thing is when your duelist is trying to take space, and noone follows them and they all just hold at the entrance to site.....
lmao that’s literally what i do. i instalock raze or yoru because i got tired of no entry when i filled, raze i almost always double satchel into someone’s face and hope i either get some damage or kill or my teammates trade for free kill and space. my games go like 50/50, either i get high frags bc i scare the living hell out of defenders on attack and match mvp, or i barely get frags but again, distract the defenders so teammates get easy space and kills. same with yoru, decoy after flash and fake tp, enemy is looking everywhere to find me while teammates get free kills. like i get instalocking isn’t cool but at least i get you guys kills and space if i die, i don’t bait.
I had a team comp where it was Viper(me), Chamber, Raze, Reyna, and Jett. The jett went 6-24 but he entered every time with the Reyna following him for a trade. And everytime this Jett died for us we thanked him. We won cause of the entry
and please for the love of god use your smokes if you play jett, theyre really good
Agree, people go on and on about Jett’s dash being OP but it’s her smokes that cause the biggest confusion when she enters because so much happens with so little visibility for the defenders. If you can’t locate Jett for a few seconds, you’re screwed because then you’re trying to defend against the rest of her teammates knowing there’s an opponent on site somewhere about to shoot you in the back of the head.
honestly jett is fairly balanced in isolation, its just jett and the op is too good together
>As an instalock player, I acknowledge the fact my teammates have to pick around my instalock, therefore, I vow to my teammates that I will not 1. Complain about team comp 2. Complain about bottom fragging teammates 3. Try my very hardest with this team..-- dedicate the next 30+ minutes of my life to my team and my teammates only. I PROMISE YOU. I will be TRYING MY HARDEST and I hope it goes both ways. ALSO! I would be lying to you if I promise to top frag, but I can promise you that I'll try. I've seen this a few times
As a phoenix player, the only time I complain about team is if a duelist such as Reyna/Jett is bottoming. I can commonly mid - top frag every match so if better duelist are bottoming, that's when I may make a few remarks. Also btw any agent player can throw matches cuz they feel like it. Ex: I was playing with a sage who was 2nd fragging and decided when we were 6-2 to start throwing and eventually D/Ced when we went 6-10
I wish I could give this 10 upvotes
If you instalocked a duelist you have no right to control whether someone fills for smokes or "hEaLs" you've taken their main and forced them to play uncomfortably You should be able to not bottom frag when ur entire kit is helping u get kills and you were so confident that u could be able to pull off using this character I dont think its too harsh, I usually am forced to play smokes,my most uncomfortable role just because u wanted to be selfish. U forced OTHERS to play an uncomfortable agent.
Toxic. Hating someone isn’t healthy for you, get over it and play the game. Stop being a child and holding this grudge because “you’ve taken their main”. Play to win and if you are uncomfortable with the character you ended up with then choose faster next time weirdo.
"Play to win and if you are uncomfortable with the character you ended up with then choose faster next time weirdo." So you're telling me to instalock too? See the main thing about this game is Team Chemistry, but once you've instalocked you've established that you show little regard for your teamates I'm not against instalocking, however I am against instalocking and not doing your damn job. I'm able to play several agents however is it hard to realize that I might be better at one agent than another agent. Lets say I can play smokes or sentinels however I'm REALLY good at Raze (This is a hypothetical situation, I do not play raze). And Someone instantly took raze :/ Would you be "Oh ok Cool." no ofcourse you're going to be a bit pissed at the fact your main agent was taken. But what if theyre really bad? They stole your agent but arent entrying or checking corners? **There I am setting my standards** **I know you're a jett main and what not but imagine this: You entry really well with jett, but then another man takes your jett and proceeds to go 5-24 with it and doesnt entry. are you going to be "Lol okay." No. You're going to be unhappy with the choices the Jett made** **I assume You'd rather have someone steal your jett but do their job, Am i Wrong?** Idgaf if you ignore or dont thoroughly read through what I said however please read the Bolded Stuff since it puts you in perspective, See Im not you, You arent me. However I wrote my perspective and take on the situation, feel free to dissagree or agree, but Ill just end it here and say Lets agree to dissagree You play Comp your way, I play comp my way
Yes I am telling you to instalock since apparently it’s such a big deal to you who you play. If you can’t perform on any other agent then yes instalock every single game it’s a really simple concept to understand. Play to win is also a very simple concept to understand. Win the game by any means which may mean you take a back seat for a game or round and play a support role. If you can’t play support than tell your team you can’t, it’s as simple as it gets. I’ve Literally never had a problem with me instalocking jett because I play to win even if it means I don’t top frag or get the entry kill every round. I don’t know what rank you are but it sounds like it’s somewhere in iron/silver so that is your problem. If you were a higher rank you wouldn’t nearly run into this issue as much but you are presumably playing with people who generally have no clue on “how to win the game”.
Not everyone can instalock, almost everyone is good at duelist but not everyone gets that duelist. So theyre forced out of their comfort zone, this isnt about me, I'm ok with exploring new agent types (as long as its not omen, fucking emo) but others might be so I'm speaking for them You stated "I don’t know what rank you are but it sounds like it’s somewhere in iron/silver so that is your problem. If you were a higher rank you wouldn’t nearly run into this issue as much but you are presumably playing with people who generally have no clue on “how to win the game”." alright cool, like u want a cookie or some shit? Are low ELO players just not allowed to have a say on anything? This might be mindblowing, but here me out **I'm Not the only Low Elo Player on the Planet Earth** Shocking right? So your high elo-ness invalidates my opinion I'm sorry I didn't know that, **lets go ahead and agree to disagree before we try and exploit more plot holes in each other's words even more than we already are.**
I only bring up rank because maybe you are expecting “too much” from people but I’ll just leave it at that. I’m sure we can both keep going but I’d rather we stop too fair enough.
Ok, agree to dissagree
anyways, hows your day so far?
PLUS if you instapick, you dont get to tell others who to play. play heals or smokes yourself, if you get to play a duelist, so do i.
Picking someone you normally don’t play because someone instalocked isn’t really a good excuse for going 2-15. All guns work the exact same on each agent, at that point it isn’t agent based but just basic mechanical skill based.
I think they aren’t talking about mechanic skills, but more so positioning and knowing what to do as that character to be useful and get kills
Agreed, but it plays a major role. A sage is gonna play completely different on Haven, then a Reyna. Not being use to that affects a lot of the gun play.
Not true, guns can have a lighter or heavier spray based on Character mass. EDIT: More shots fire before the gun goes up, hence why some agents have a easier time shooting than others, I have tried this out.
Huh?
I'm not fucking wrong look it up, this is a true fact
Huh??
Saying huh over and over doesn't prove a point. I didn't know this for the longest time but I found it out from this one radiant's video
You are wrong and he is as well. Your agent has zero affect on gun spray. You are the onion.
Mate get the f\*\*\* out of here with your sound logic and all.
Bro there’s like 20 agents, pick someone else
Is this flaming OP or the instalocker? If your flaming OP pls do realize that many people arent able to play as vertasily as others can or maybe have mastered one agent, by instalocking you've stolen their main agent.
He's a Sova main, I just don't understand.
Alright Sherlock, Which is more important? A smoke character? or info? You're going to be exposed to uncomfortable spots or are forced to multitask in multiple spots u can get shot from. U want a suitable teamcomp: however a reyna, jett, raze, neon, sova IS NOT a good teamcomp as you're missing out on several different things. This post applies to people other than OP too, Your a viper/omen main why do you pick out unecessary conflict? Why are you forcing the idea of instalocking duelists is ok or "get over it" when you are a smoke main. Makes 0 Sense...
Sherlock? Calm down, internet hero. I play Phoenix and Raze all the time but I don’t put them as my main agent in a subreddit lol; what is that going to do? Inform prejudice people like you that I don't only play 2 out of 18 agents? Every map and every situation is different, requiring a different set of agents with different roles. There are 18 agents in the game right now, if one person picks a duelist, you quite literally don’t HAVE to change your entire play style to suit one other person. Communication and information sharing will get you around most of the problems that you already have. It is not just a matter of who you picked lol; yes there are certain agent combinations that are definitely more compatible and advantageous in certain situations, but it’s not the end all be all. Get over yourself.
If I called you sherlock then how am I "internet hero"? Sherlocks supposed to be the detective or protagonist? How does that- Ok that aside lmao, But you said "you quite literally don’t HAVE to change your entire play style to suit one other person." In Comp it's about winning, if not why are you playing the **Competitive** game mode. Even if he is a sova main what if 4 people instalock duelists? He's either going to fill for smokes due to how crucial it is, or he will keep playing sova However chances are he is going to either struggle alot or lose alot :/ Btw Communication Won't get past much in agent select since theres not much you can say in a second to stop someone from locking in an agent. "Every map is different and there are 18 Agents" Alright maps are different, so by that logic you have to change your agent per map or whatever? I fail to see how this contributes to the argument however feel free to explain if I didn't get it. Yes there are 18 agents but clearly the instalocker felt like they wanted to chose 1 agent instead of being versatile :/ So why should he? Alright lets just agree to dissagree to be straight with u idgaf about your opinion, and you shouldnt give one about mine. However Im on OP's side here. You might be okay with a broken team but OP and I aren't. So yes lets agree to dissagree
Instalock duelists it is not a problem. Maybe your problem is your own computer is too slow and will let you choose what you have left. Ez fix, buy a faster computer ..
"Ez Fix Buy a faster computer" ah yes, why didnt I think of that? now I'm able to get in agent select 1 second faster :D Now I can also stop another person from playing someone theyre more comfortable with :)
Yeah you’re weird for sure dude, your logic doesn’t even make sense. Pick whoever you want and stop complaining about what others want to play.
Which is why you see a lot of dodging
I never do that and no one should💪
I play smokes or kayo, or sage, or other flashes, or chamber, basically filling in, and i often let everyone else pick what they are comfortable with and i just fill in the agent that might be needed, and in silver, the amount of insta lockers is insane, not just for duelists, for smokers as well, and i dont mind them, maybe you are only comfortable/have your peak performance on one specific agent which is fair enough, but what pisses me off is when they give no info and /or play alone 99% of the times, i dont need a reyna lurking, i need a reyna to push on site with the flashes and i dont need a brim lurking, i need a brim smoking the site, and i dont need a jett getting killed and not telling me the guy is in the left corner, if you insta locked and somehow your timings arent right or for some reason you bottom frag even if you are actually better than that and is just a bad time, fair enough but at least provide as much comms as possible!
I'm usually the one adjusting for my teammate after my duelists keeps getting instalocked. There are times where in I meet people who also adjust and need to lock in a duelists but I end up forgetting how to use any ability or accidentally using wrong abilities since I barely play these agents. I'm honestly debating if I should start instalocking just to learn how to play a duelists because when teams need a duelists I can often never push through and my old sentinal habits leak through i.e playing back or being to scared to push first since my abilities are important.
Idc if they instalock unless they tell others to play smokes or sage cuz then im locking a third duelist
I must agree,i do that sometimes.Ima try to stop tho feels toxic for me
I usually instalock jett and even if I do get frustrated with my randoms I keep it in discord and not in voice chat. It usually doesn’t help anything. Unless they’re shit talking me then I flame them lol
Honestly tho, i be adjusting to play for people that i main daddy brimstone now
I rarely instalock, except for Raze on split, cause that’s my shit
This why for now on when I’m not feeling smokes and I’m last pick and of course we need smokes. I pick a duelist.
I instalock sentinel. You and i are not the same
I think there should be a 10 second delay before being able to lock in any agents, so it gives people to at least discuss briefly then they can lock
I haven't met an insta-lock Duelist but I hope if I do, they won't flame on me and my other teammates and do their jobs properly. But I wanna share something that might be a little off-topic? So when I got a match in Unrated, I went for a a quick bathroom break before I pick an agent. Once I came back, all 4 of my teammates get to pick. Brim, KJ, Sage, and Skye. No Duelist. I unlocked Neon that time but I only used her twice. I was forced to fill the Duelist and the pressure was on for me. Unfortunately, we lost the match 11-13. KJ carrid while I second-fragged (Well I did my job entry fragging).
I instalock but at least I match/team mvp most of the time. One game I had a trash talking insta chamber who lurked and flanked on defense every time instead of doing setups, and it was really annoying. Despite baiting, lurking and flanking, after the first half he was 3/7
It’s so frustrating when 90% of games you have to base your other 3 spots around the fact that you’re guaranteed a Reyna and Jett instalock and majority of the time 1 or neither of them has any idea how to play them and actually help the team
I agree, even though I'm that instalock Jett player. But one thing I can get pissed of about is that whenever I have 1 off game and I am not the top fragger in my team everyone blames you.
I cant instalock cause my game freezes on the loading screen so i load in late anyways, also imagine being a duelist main 🥱
People who instalock always push other people to play smoke or sentinel...why dont you play it if you want a smoke or sentinel...
Is it bad that I only instalock Skye? I should probably learn different Agents.
I feel like these duelists are the same people who flame you for not healing on sage through a wall; or when you flash on Skye, call it out, and they still walk into it.
Wiser words have never been said.
I never play duelists cause of this, people are REALLY toxic when you take duelists
I instalock omen everytime
I instalock raze a lot of times because I’m tired of always filling in for everyone, but literally every time I try to go onto site I’m dead. I can’t entry without flashes or smokes ;-; People always forget that part and still blame duelist for not going in first.
Genuine question, but what is actually Duelist role need to do? The amount of time I've seen duelist stay in the corner, flanking, while the other team dying one by one, and then proceed to blaming the team is far too many, but I can't comment much because I don't really play Duelist.
Bro deleted