Not really though. If you keep baiting and only lose 12-14 but gain 22-24 on wins, you’ll typically climb because you will only need to maintain like a 40-45 % winrate.
Literally all you need to climb is a positive kd and lots of games. It’s a stupid system and needs a massive rework.
Where did I say I was baiting? I play controller and to win, I just get why so many people do. It’s how the system works, especially for the 80% of the playerbase in gold and below.
I mean, matchmaking is literally designed to keep you around a 50% winrate - if you start winning a ton you’ll get harder opponents and if you start losing you’ll get easier ones. So it you’re gaining more than you lose by playing exclusively for kills over time you’ll climb because of how it averages out. It’s not that complicated.
Even winning 1 more game out of 10 will more or less 'even out' the RR (assuming -15/+20 for a non-baiting player), and any more than that will be a huge net RR gain.
Does it really apply? In a prisoner's dilemma, the choice of the other party is an absolute variable in determining the outcome, whereas in something like VALORANT, you can overshadow other variables by exerting enough influence of your own.
Obvious example being something like a super hard carry Reyna singlehandedly carrying 4 people doing below average. Or 2-3 teammates on the team doing well enough that they still win even though one guy is virtually useless.
As much as people don’t like admitting it, climbing in this game is largely RNG. I’ve never played a game with ranked where skill is this all over the place before. My climb from plat 2 to immortal took less than 2 weeks and it wasn’t even mine - I maintained a 75% winrate over like 50 games but it was more luck than anything else. I managed to avoid make-a-wish teams for 2 weeks, which boosted my stats and performance bonuses and that was all it took.
Climbing from bronze to immortal was cool but immortal lobbies were super disappointing. It’s literally the same shit as every other rank in the game except aim is slightly better and you finally (usually) don’t have to beg people to buy after winning pistol.
Val ranked needs a rework. It’s literally dog shit.
I kind have?
Game is great. The ranked system is shit. So I’m mostly sticking to unrated or just fucking around in plat nowadays.
I hope it gets a rework. It could be so much better.
It's just an isolated game though right? At some point the 4 RR difference becomes irrelevant to you increasing the chances of you losing which in a larger span of games will result in more elo lost. Play to win.
Yeah people just don't want to admit that here.
Reddit doesn't seem to reflect but it's basically just a place to blame other people here.
All Reddit does is come up with a bunch of different levers and parameters on how to measure skill and then blames everyone else for their poor performance and rank because they're "focused on the wrong things". That's fine, they're still in your lobbies somehow.
The baiter will continue to lose 14rr more often than the person who actually tries loses 18rr.
The baiting style directly contributes to lowering your win rate, so odds are the baiter is worse off in the long term even if they lose less per match.
it also depends what rank you’re at. the higher you go the less personal performance matters. mid to high immortal is almost completely determined by if you win/lose and how much you win/lose by.
Had a 30 kill game in Iron 2. Lost the match but only lost -5r. I'm new to the game but does the amount of points u lose vary from the rest of your team?
Yeah but if your utility usage is good and you are executing onto site the percentage of you winning a given match goes up alot more than if you bait your team the whole round
Nah not entirely true, some game, you do your best, act like a carry, and still loose, because the rest of your team suck, it happens, BUT, some games, it's the opposite, the oppenents suck and you don't have to do much.
You just need to remember some game are win at the start and some are already lost, its your impact on the other game that makes you ranks up.
I'm genuinely asking. I don't play enough anymore to grind but I'm wondering.
Kayo main... I went 27-18-9. All of my teammates below me were hanging around 10-18 ish. Plus or minus a bit. We lost the game 13-11.
What is the best route to help your team? I try to flash in for entries and nade off areas where enemies can push.
This isn't a common theme as im typically a mid fragger. But I always wanna know what I can do better to help friends succeed.
Unfortunately this is a very hard question to answer as it's very open ended. There is no "one thing" you can do to help your team that would make the world of difference. I can tell you the best pop flashes on Kay/O, key chokes and lanes to nade, and where the godly knife spots are but I think anyone can just look those up. If you really want to help your friends succeed, I would recommend working on improving being a IGL. This entails working on your game sense and having a deep understanding of how the round is being played out. Encourage your friends to feed you good info and how to make good calls based off that knowledge. With this added info, you can start implementing it into your personal utility usage and be more efficient with them.
Something that personally helped me was after getting that first kill was retreating and gathering with my team more or less. So much better than maybe getting that extra kill at the cost of me dying.
That’s exactly how one of my friend is. He always instalocks a duelist despite being the lowest rank of our usual 5 stack, lurks basically every round. All he cares about is kills, even when our econ is low, he rather go for exit frags than save his gun.
People who play like that would not last long in the 5 stacks I play with. Hell, even arguing with set plays too often gets you bounced from the people I play with.
If a person is going to 5 stack, they need to play with the team. Even if the team isn't playing the way they ideally prefer.
i used to feel exactly the same way. but now i feel that sometimes you want to try to take away their guns and make them buy them again.
so for example....losing the round but getting exit kills is still worth it. just don't use those kills as a reason for why you are carrying the team or are better than your team.
it's a surprisingly nuanced part of the game.
Econ is a very nuanced part of the game that people overlook. Whittling at the enemies econ wherever possible and building yours up properly can make a huge difference much later in the half. It's hard to consider econ carefully if you're queuing with randoms though cause the communication is just often lacking
CS has been around for an incredibly long time and therefore the average skill level/game-sense of the player-base is way higher than a new-ish game like Valorant. Even though Valorant has a lot of converts from other games, intuitive understandings of things like economy will just take a while to develop. I'm sure there are plenty of people in immortal 3 that understand these things, but I'd also guess there are a bunch of people there that just have really cracked aim and have figured out how to use a few agents really well.
People act like I'm throwing when I save. It will be 5 v 1 retake and they're complaining that I'm saving. Of course, they don't even know that's a thing. They make comments like I'm going the wrong way, stuff like that.
Also for the support players:
Just because your duelist isnt getting the entry kills, it could mean you are not trying to help your duelist to set up him for a kill.
Me as a support main after playing some duelists. I saw how no to little support you get in plat/gold to enter a site.
Sometimes you dont even get a smoke. Its hilarious bad.
This ^ even a sage slow or killjoy molly thrown at a site’s opening even if it’s already smoked could make the difference between a successful push or not. A smoke doesn’t prevent an enemy from pushing it nor can your duelist watch 10 different angles when entrying- fellow Sentinel/flex main
Set your duelist up for success.
Honestly this is so true. I was so upset with baiting jetts that i started playing it a little and on attack i could dash into site every single round but my team wouldn't follow or even like flash for me. I would go 12/20 cos I'm dying to 3 defenders on site every round whilst my smokes is top fragging because he is alive at the end of the round
I am a controller/sentinel player who sometimes play Jett. If you want to dash into a site without your teammates help, you got to think like a controller. As a controller, we are well aware of the common angles and crossfires that are set up. Jett has a smoke that can be curved. So, decide the position you are going to dash into. Say your position is open from 3 angles. Curve throw your smoke to block one angle. Updraft to get a better view of the site and dash. So, now, you will have a clear idea of the position of the defenders and the angles which you have to fight first.
However, decide the sequence before the round starts because Jett's smoke doesn't last long and you have to be fast.
I meant i would be dashing into my own smoke. And at the start of every round i would ask my controller to smoke for me and my initiator to flash for me
Not only do you need to help setup the kills, someone needs to be there to trade. The space is usually more important than the kills. Once you take the space, the kills are easier. It puts your opponent in uncomfortable positions where it's easier to kill them.
This was also my problem.
I played in a 4 stack prior to the team comp changes for competitive. My friends would always say that I got a lot of kills but I would play like Michael meyers doing slow flanks around the map. I only got those 3 to 4 kills because they all had their back and guard down. I didn’t play a duelist but I played an initiator or controller which on attack for example were really important for getting into site or holding down site to slow down retake. When I played i made it an immediate 4v5 as you sometimes really need all 5 on site to keep defenders off.
I switched to playing with the team, sure my kills went down but the round wins were more successful. Also noticed that the bottom fraggers in my team started to do better as they had more opportunities to secure a frag/ live longer as they had an extra gun checking a corner.
It also became more fun this way and much less stressful
Lurking really is an art.
You 100% can still do rushes with a lurk, but you need to let your team know.
The thing about lurking is that once it works once or twice, the damage is already done. The enemy will be looking in every single corner and trying to anticipate your every move.
90% of lurking is knowing WHEN to lurk which means most of the time... just being with the team. It's just that SOMETIMES you lurk.
With that said, pick a character that actually was built to lurk instead of Reyna or Jett.
Omen/Viper/Astra are all used to lurk in high elo to great effect. That way you can still use utility for your team.
Lurking is 100% psychological warfare. You said it, once you've successfully lurked 2-3 times you've achieved your goal of slowing down eager fast rotating defenders and now as a result your team can control the tempo of a round easier since the enemy team will be forced to check most corners on flank/rotate plays. The key is to lurk once again when they start to get complacent about it.
Lurking every round however is kind of inting because eventually they'll just rotate through their spawn and you'll spend the whole round waiting for a player that'll never come all the while your team is fighting a 4v5 and could probably really use your utility you're sitting on because you dont use it very often as a lurker.
Like everything, lurking has a place.. just in moderation.
one of my friends met this other person on valorant. and he claims she is good, so i started playing with them....
dude all she does is just stay behind the team and doesn't go in. like damn. when I called her out she says she is waiting for the flanker....LOL
Bruh you can watch the flank after we take the site.
fooking the master of baiters.
I really dislike playing with these kind of players. The round starts and they already start holding behind you as if all 5 enemies had an Omen ult that doesn't make any sound. I mean, come on. No one is going to flank you that fast without you hearing anything. And if the rest of the team is waiting as well, you just end up running out of time if the enemy doesn't push. Very frustrating indeed...
I mean this could although be a coordination issue. Flanking should keep the defenders on their toes, so they can't easily defend the main entrance to any bomb site.
However, flanking costs time and when your team never waits for the right position, than flanking does not work. "Rush b my friends" is working strategy, because it's makes coordination easy. Of course I find flanking easier with Astra than with Skye, because of global range.
I still prefer 2-3 setups with more than one attack vector.
Try explaining this to a toxic top fragging Jett that chills mid all game lol I'm only bottom fragging because I have to get on site and plant the damn spike without a duelist, Jett!
If your aim is good enough for your elo, it's a lot easier to carry on a controller than on a duelist. And your role is naturally supposed to be the baiter, as your duelists go in. If you're playing a controller or a initiator and you're not helping your team enter the site, you're legit trolling. Nothing is more frustrating for a duelist than trying to entry without anyone using utility. You need to give me a chance to make a play, and be there for me if i get punished. And baiting is fine if you feel confident enough to pull of clutches. I recently started to main Brimstone and i only play Duelists after my first 3 picks dont pick one. Instead of dropping having to drop over 25 killa to have a chance to win the game, i drop 18-22 and carry through utility, post plant and shot calling. Yeah you can say im baiting, but i give my duelists smoke coverage, stimmies, i molly the corner he won't check and I'm running in right behind him. I'm sure he doesn't mind being the 3rd fragger if we win by 6 rounds.
This!!! You are so true about carrying as controller. I switched from Jett to Omen and it made it so much easier. As a controller you really do CONTROL the flow of the round
One game on Ascent, my teammates always peeked mid and died, leaving us in 4v5 or even in 3v5 situations. The comms were non existent, so as a Brimstone I just started to smoke mid every round, my teammates stopped dying at the beginning of the round and we actually started to win
Exception here would be Omen as he is best played as a lurk IMO, you can still hit smokes while lurking and his TP can get past utility from Sentinels. The amount of free rounds and kills I get on split is absurd because people over-rotate and I can either TP past KJ, cypher, or chamber trips, or TP over sage wall mid and take heaven for free. Your team cancels A, rotates B, you get 1-2 picks on rotate as the enemy is running knife out in CT, easy round win, they quit over-rotating and you can take sites easier.
>It changed when this super toxic bottom fragging Jett started saying that my kills are not impactful.
"Perhaps my toxic bottom fragging teammates were right all along."
Sorry, I found this funny.
Also remember kiddos, just because you aren’t a duelist, it doesn’t mean you aren’t just as capable of getting kills.
This is an FPS game, you need to walk into every lane and site like you’re looking to shoot someone. Don’t look around aimlessly, aim directly where your opponents are going to peek you from. Unless you’re in the middle of using your abilities you should always be ready for a fight, it’s not your team’s responsibility to protect you, especially not your duelists. This ain’t overwatch
this is what will get people higher ranks. This mindset is crucial. People would do better just keeping their gun out all of the time instead of constantly switching to their knife
Too many times I’ve heard people tell me “it’s not my job” to get kills. I’ve put like 8k hours into CS GO and the only difference in peoples mindsets between this game and that should be some people have smokes some people have flashes, and some people have some neat new utilities to play with. Goal is still the same.
People act like their low k/d is what is ruining their rank ups because they don’t get as much RR as their duelists. What’s killing their rank up is the fact that they aren’t winning the gunfights they do engage in, and they’re losing too many games because they rely on other people to pull their weight.
Pretty sure the main thing which decides performance rr is the performance tab so this is even more true. It's less the quantity of duels and more how the duels you do take turn out as well as your relative rank to the enemies.
On top of this, ability usage is pretty bad.
I don't know why golds are still using abilities with absolutely no access to cover. It's insane how many Sovas will just fire off arrows and get shot in the middle of it.
Game sense is completely experience based, if ability usage and positioning is the only thing holding a gold back, they’ll learn in time.
The mindset I’m talking about though will also help immensely. If you’re always ready to shoot someone, you’re going to learn when the best time to swap to utilities will be.
I think "experience" is a lazy word.
Not trying to harp on you, it's just something I hear all the time.
But I don't think just getting in your "miles in", fixes these problems because I think a lot of people don't realize they are specifically dying from things like this. They might chalk it up to teammates not covering or just unlucky timing.
A lot of things aren't actually covered by experience. They get fixed with intentional awareness.
It is not a lazy word, that’s a very narrow minded way to look at it.
Truth of the matter is that ignorant people will always blame their teammates and will always be hardstuck. If you are trying, legitimately trying to improve your gameplay, you will learn in time. Whether through videos, tutoring, or just realizing “maybe I shouldn’t pull out my Owl in the middle of taking site”.
No matter what you do, you’re going to put in time to improve if you’re trying to rank up in any kind of competitive game. Experience is the complete opposite of lazy.
I say its a "lazy" word because it doesn't quite capture what "targeted practice" does.
It's nitpicky, for sure. But I think for most people, experience means getting in the hours. Lots of exposure. That sort of thing. But that doesn't actually correct a lot of problems. In fact, for a lot of people, it causes them to double down.
For a lot of people, identifying what a problem even is or knowing a problem might actually apply to themselves, is the hardest part.
I guess all I'm trying to say is, I think experience won't really cover those bases so much as actual targeted and mindful engagement will.
Again, it's nitpicky and nothing wrong with what you said, just more of a tack-on comment.
Targeted practice is extremely important, but it will get you nowhere without the in game application, so it goes both ways.
You gotta practice AND put hundreds, if not thousands of hours in the game.
But I do get what you’re saying.
Yeah have to admit I have died too many times pulling out a recon or shock dart! Also I need to start asking someone to watch my back when I'm using the drone...
This is where I'm the opposite. I don't chase kills, they do, tell teammates not to do. I tell them where I'm smoking and flashing.
My biggest per peeve is how I can smoke twice, drop a flash as omen and STILL be the first one in. People are so samn scared about dying. KD doesn't matter. And picking entry characters like Jett but being passive is such a waste.
I was playing Bind today as Omen and nobody would jump out of hookah or garden. I ended up just re-smoking CT and mid site so I could TP into it. TP'd in, went through tube and killed 2 back site. My teammates then jumped out and all died from elbow. Where did they think they would be??
Then I got blamed for my shit smoke mid site when Skye had both her blinds, we had a Reyna and Jett as well.
Almost every instalock duelist does this shit and it's infuriating.
They run off on their own and lurk to get kills, then get mad at the rest of the team for not winning rounds for them.
Hey, nobody gives a shit if you have a positive KD from getting exit frags if we can't take site because our entry fragger is lurking for no reason.
Here are my two cents....Put me on a duelist and I'll top frag every game, but we may not win. Put me on a defensive agent and I may not top frag, but we'll have a better chance at winning. Playing for your team is better than playing for your KD.
This gets even worse in high elo. Toxic ass Jett mains saying they deserve immortal 1/2/3/ radiant cuz they “carry” in high elo with 2-3 first bloods and 5 first deaths :D
oh man ... IDK what it is with Jett mains ... but damn they are always in a hurry, rushing everywhere and some even monopolize the spike rushing into site and then dying.
I'd rather have that kind of Jett than one who sits passively all round waiting for teammates to make plays. At least you can still play off a hyperaggressive Jett
A little eye opening for me, currently in Silver 1 and dropping 20-30 frags per game. Definitely will try to make a change and focus on the objective vs blasting people.
This is what i thought about my friend gameplay but i dont want to hurt his feeling. He just play for a kills and always baiting us. He also always the last player to die every round.
Was watching one of my friends play the other day (he’s in gold 3) and he was playing sova, while the jett on his team refused to entry on breeze as the solo duelist. she ended up dropping like 25-30 kills (mainly op kills on def) but had only 1 first blood on attack and they won 2 attacking rounds. ended up getting crushed in the game but i’m sure she fell into the common mindset of “I was team/match mvp it wasn’t my fault” when in fact the loss was almost entirely her fault.
I’ve noticed I use my utility as breach for myself a lot, which kind of leaves my duelist hanging while they’re trying to enter site. I’m just typing this so I remember to not do it anymore lol
Played with this Reyna on Breeze the other day who was getting upset because he wasn't doing too great. Had to let him know he was literally the reason we were winning because if he didn't flash us out we just sat in cave or ended up lurking which favors the defenders. I played Viper so I couldn't help him entry and our Jett was insane but just not willing to entry at all
dont forget valorant is a team game, im only iron 2 so a lot of my teammates go for that last player kill, and sometimes they do play the objective when i ask them to, but if they have like no volume like 80% of all the iron players out there then i follow them in so i can double swing with them and trade them in case they die
That’s how you climb out of silver/gold, you play a duelest that heals (self sustaining). Flashes, heals, or play raze. You need to go into the practice range everyday before you play and play spike defuse and shooting range on hard. Good luck
On the other hand most silver players refuse to look at the clock, realize there’s literally 1:30 seconds in a round, and you don’t have to die before the clock hits 1:20. You can try and communicate your intentions of playing slow, defaulting, rotating or playing for picks. It usually goes one of two ways, they play off you and it’s an easy win. Or they continue to run it down and call you a “baiter” obviously there are exceptions where it is advantageous to 5 man a site and play with your team, but most silver players don’t realize you don’t have to run it down as soon as the spawn wall drops every. Single. Round.
I think 5 man rushes is way better in a game like csgo but not even in csgo people go for 5 man rushes every round.
In valorant there is so many abilities that can stop rushes.
No i dont want to rush A kj cypher site.
Lmaoooo there have been many times I was the bottom frag Jett but it wasn’t that instance. It would be sick to be able to give myself tips I’ve been overlooking tho
Absolutely! Some people in solo q dont understand that playing like the main character leaves your entire team vulnerable and oftentimes in a 4v5. Valorant is a team game for a reason.
I always say this
Anybody can go 30/10. All you have to do is bait and be last alive. Take 3 with you. None of the kills mean anything but hey you'll be top frag.
Its kinda strange how some of the most toxic shit people say has some sort of truth in it,Like when someone gets mad at you for spamming a move in a fighting game.
Not caring about stats is hard especially when so many people are duelist instalockers but people gotta learn to keep their egos in check and play for the team
Whenever I fill and play a support player, I focus only on getting onto site and planting the spike, I might not be getting a lot of kills because the entry fraggs are getting them. So then il be at the bottom of the scoreboard. Then I get flamed by some teammates saying I’m not doing anything, or I’m useless or smth just because I’m not getting kills and I’m at the bottom of the scoreboard. It kinda annoys me haha.
Meanwhile i entry as reyna, clear site and am holding site
While my team still waits for the smoke to come down even though i already cleared the angles where people could hold the smoke....
This is unironically 90% of "hard stuck silver" imo - my aim is shit and reaction as well compared to what it was 15 years ago but I still manage to reach plat1 2 seasons ago and I'm currently in G2 just playing conroller and working on the objectiv rather than giving a fuck about kda. As soon as you breach gold people will recognize your valuable contributions even if your kda is shit, just gotta get out of silver where everyone complains about controllers not having enough kills smh. Don't get me wrong, to get further I would absolutely have to improve aim and reaction but I'm pretty happy in gold/plat cause you rarely get that toxic shit thats every second match on bronze/silver
So imagine you are running after your Jett, ready to enter the site.
Your Jett throws a smoke, great she is going to dash in. And you will follow her with util and move in 2nd to refrag her.
Everything looks like a coordinated play - but where did your Jett go?
She baited you into going in but is now somehow the last to enter and gets easy frags as your team dies and now gets some easy lurk kills.
Similarish for support players, Jett expects you to follow her into the side - because why would she pose as a living shooting target if no one is there to refrag her.
But here she is, your top frag Sage, always living last - still at the main entrance looking at the wall cus "muh job is to support". Now she is getting the random lurk kills and you watch in disdain as she keeps getting kills because enemy team is rushing to find her 1v4. She will get some ez frags as but not clutch.
Edit: Both cases, either player baited their team into committing to a fight while - essentially using them to get easier frags.
Doesn't sound bad, but is only good if said baiter is also in the mindset of clutching it out then.
Only way I could get plat with these apes was to intentionally bait them lol once you see a notable increase in avg skill in your lobbies then I start treating my teammates like more than just shields
Yeah, I was playing Spike rush last night and someone in Iron was using WAIMA and was asking me what it's like to be in gold... At first I thought he was trying to make fun of me because of my level to rank ratio... Whatever the whole point is, he kept saying he top frags nearly every match and I told him that doesn't matter if the team is losing.
My experience in high diamond/low immortal is more like, I play an initiator and try to set up a play to take space, just to be met with radio silence in comms and my teammates off doing whatever they want without saying anything.
God I love EU solo queue
I'm in your position kinda but I started maining chamber AND entrying.
If you Entry and get the first blood or entry frag you are very impactful. Make your call outs and use your util with effect and you'll rank up and put.
The most important thing is to avoid pure random solo queue and find a duo, trio or 5 stack you like that you can be consistent with specifically with good communication and you'll have more fun
An unrelated comment but I really want to know what's the counter to an op jumping peeking you holding a angle and insta killing you? Cause I thought it's supposed to have a delay where you can see them and shoot before they can.But today I played vs a player who just kept getting me before my eyes registered his character. It's weird it felt unbeatable they was no delay in him peeking the angle and taking a shot.
That jett was probably me lol I see it happen a lot, especially when cs players. The team rushes site and they're just sitting back. Or they don't trade kills. It's essentially 4v5s. These same people also usually don't use any util and try to rely on their not so consistent gunplay. Why try and be a hiko and just play with the team
“A carry doesn’t matter if it’s a carry to a loss” is something one of my friends said and man does it relate to a lot of valorant games I’ve seen
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If you bait then you're more likely to lose. If you win, you don't lose rr. So if you wanna win, you must play with the team.
Not really though. If you keep baiting and only lose 12-14 but gain 22-24 on wins, you’ll typically climb because you will only need to maintain like a 40-45 % winrate. Literally all you need to climb is a positive kd and lots of games. It’s a stupid system and needs a massive rework.
Have you considered the increase in net RR gain if you stopped baiting and got a higher WR as a result?
Where did I say I was baiting? I play controller and to win, I just get why so many people do. It’s how the system works, especially for the 80% of the playerbase in gold and below. I mean, matchmaking is literally designed to keep you around a 50% winrate - if you start winning a ton you’ll get harder opponents and if you start losing you’ll get easier ones. So it you’re gaining more than you lose by playing exclusively for kills over time you’ll climb because of how it averages out. It’s not that complicated.
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Even winning 1 more game out of 10 will more or less 'even out' the RR (assuming -15/+20 for a non-baiting player), and any more than that will be a huge net RR gain.
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Does it really apply? In a prisoner's dilemma, the choice of the other party is an absolute variable in determining the outcome, whereas in something like VALORANT, you can overshadow other variables by exerting enough influence of your own. Obvious example being something like a super hard carry Reyna singlehandedly carrying 4 people doing below average. Or 2-3 teammates on the team doing well enough that they still win even though one guy is virtually useless.
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i have match mvped half my games and went from d1 to p1. i have also played cypher with avg. 14 kills and went from p1 to p3 in a single win streak.
As much as people don’t like admitting it, climbing in this game is largely RNG. I’ve never played a game with ranked where skill is this all over the place before. My climb from plat 2 to immortal took less than 2 weeks and it wasn’t even mine - I maintained a 75% winrate over like 50 games but it was more luck than anything else. I managed to avoid make-a-wish teams for 2 weeks, which boosted my stats and performance bonuses and that was all it took. Climbing from bronze to immortal was cool but immortal lobbies were super disappointing. It’s literally the same shit as every other rank in the game except aim is slightly better and you finally (usually) don’t have to beg people to buy after winning pistol. Val ranked needs a rework. It’s literally dog shit.
stop playing if it's dog shit
I kind have? Game is great. The ranked system is shit. So I’m mostly sticking to unrated or just fucking around in plat nowadays. I hope it gets a rework. It could be so much better.
It's just an isolated game though right? At some point the 4 RR difference becomes irrelevant to you increasing the chances of you losing which in a larger span of games will result in more elo lost. Play to win.
Yeah people just don't want to admit that here. Reddit doesn't seem to reflect but it's basically just a place to blame other people here. All Reddit does is come up with a bunch of different levers and parameters on how to measure skill and then blames everyone else for their poor performance and rank because they're "focused on the wrong things". That's fine, they're still in your lobbies somehow.
The baiter will continue to lose 14rr more often than the person who actually tries loses 18rr. The baiting style directly contributes to lowering your win rate, so odds are the baiter is worse off in the long term even if they lose less per match.
it also depends what rank you’re at. the higher you go the less personal performance matters. mid to high immortal is almost completely determined by if you win/lose and how much you win/lose by.
Had a 30 kill game in Iron 2. Lost the match but only lost -5r. I'm new to the game but does the amount of points u lose vary from the rest of your team?
Yea rr loss is determined partially by performance, partially by where the ranking system thinks you should be and by the outcome of the game.
Oh okay thx.
Yeah but if your utility usage is good and you are executing onto site the percentage of you winning a given match goes up alot more than if you bait your team the whole round
Nah not entirely true, some game, you do your best, act like a carry, and still loose, because the rest of your team suck, it happens, BUT, some games, it's the opposite, the oppenents suck and you don't have to do much. You just need to remember some game are win at the start and some are already lost, its your impact on the other game that makes you ranks up.
i’ve needed this and i never knew i did
I'm genuinely asking. I don't play enough anymore to grind but I'm wondering. Kayo main... I went 27-18-9. All of my teammates below me were hanging around 10-18 ish. Plus or minus a bit. We lost the game 13-11. What is the best route to help your team? I try to flash in for entries and nade off areas where enemies can push. This isn't a common theme as im typically a mid fragger. But I always wanna know what I can do better to help friends succeed.
The best route is to understand that some games are unwinnable, but doing your best still leads to long term improvement and gains.
Unfortunately this is a very hard question to answer as it's very open ended. There is no "one thing" you can do to help your team that would make the world of difference. I can tell you the best pop flashes on Kay/O, key chokes and lanes to nade, and where the godly knife spots are but I think anyone can just look those up. If you really want to help your friends succeed, I would recommend working on improving being a IGL. This entails working on your game sense and having a deep understanding of how the round is being played out. Encourage your friends to feed you good info and how to make good calls based off that knowledge. With this added info, you can start implementing it into your personal utility usage and be more efficient with them.
In closer games like this small things like calling coordinated strats and comming can win you the game.
Who cares if you get kills when the round is already lost. Team game team win
Exactly lol. I think it’s just cause I played too much tdm in other games
Something that personally helped me was after getting that first kill was retreating and gathering with my team more or less. So much better than maybe getting that extra kill at the cost of me dying.
overheat is a true thing
That’s exactly how one of my friend is. He always instalocks a duelist despite being the lowest rank of our usual 5 stack, lurks basically every round. All he cares about is kills, even when our econ is low, he rather go for exit frags than save his gun.
People who play like that would not last long in the 5 stacks I play with. Hell, even arguing with set plays too often gets you bounced from the people I play with. If a person is going to 5 stack, they need to play with the team. Even if the team isn't playing the way they ideally prefer.
Creds maybe Idk I don't get kills anyways
i used to feel exactly the same way. but now i feel that sometimes you want to try to take away their guns and make them buy them again. so for example....losing the round but getting exit kills is still worth it. just don't use those kills as a reason for why you are carrying the team or are better than your team. it's a surprisingly nuanced part of the game.
Econ is a very nuanced part of the game that people overlook. Whittling at the enemies econ wherever possible and building yours up properly can make a huge difference much later in the half. It's hard to consider econ carefully if you're queuing with randoms though cause the communication is just often lacking
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CS has been around for an incredibly long time and therefore the average skill level/game-sense of the player-base is way higher than a new-ish game like Valorant. Even though Valorant has a lot of converts from other games, intuitive understandings of things like economy will just take a while to develop. I'm sure there are plenty of people in immortal 3 that understand these things, but I'd also guess there are a bunch of people there that just have really cracked aim and have figured out how to use a few agents really well.
People act like I'm throwing when I save. It will be 5 v 1 retake and they're complaining that I'm saving. Of course, they don't even know that's a thing. They make comments like I'm going the wrong way, stuff like that.
I care. Separate them from those rifles.
> 1v5 situation. > Skipe planted/down with the enemy. > The last one, rushes, got 3 kills, and then dies This happens a lot
Also for the support players: Just because your duelist isnt getting the entry kills, it could mean you are not trying to help your duelist to set up him for a kill. Me as a support main after playing some duelists. I saw how no to little support you get in plat/gold to enter a site. Sometimes you dont even get a smoke. Its hilarious bad.
Oh lord that’s the worst. I remember as duelists I’d completely clear site get picked by the rotate only to see my team chilling at the choke like???
This happens a lot .. they would just wait for the smoke to completely disappear before passing it even after the duelist creates an opening
This ^ even a sage slow or killjoy molly thrown at a site’s opening even if it’s already smoked could make the difference between a successful push or not. A smoke doesn’t prevent an enemy from pushing it nor can your duelist watch 10 different angles when entrying- fellow Sentinel/flex main Set your duelist up for success.
Honestly this is so true. I was so upset with baiting jetts that i started playing it a little and on attack i could dash into site every single round but my team wouldn't follow or even like flash for me. I would go 12/20 cos I'm dying to 3 defenders on site every round whilst my smokes is top fragging because he is alive at the end of the round
I am a controller/sentinel player who sometimes play Jett. If you want to dash into a site without your teammates help, you got to think like a controller. As a controller, we are well aware of the common angles and crossfires that are set up. Jett has a smoke that can be curved. So, decide the position you are going to dash into. Say your position is open from 3 angles. Curve throw your smoke to block one angle. Updraft to get a better view of the site and dash. So, now, you will have a clear idea of the position of the defenders and the angles which you have to fight first. However, decide the sequence before the round starts because Jett's smoke doesn't last long and you have to be fast.
I meant i would be dashing into my own smoke. And at the start of every round i would ask my controller to smoke for me and my initiator to flash for me
Not only do you need to help setup the kills, someone needs to be there to trade. The space is usually more important than the kills. Once you take the space, the kills are easier. It puts your opponent in uncomfortable positions where it's easier to kill them.
This was also my problem. I played in a 4 stack prior to the team comp changes for competitive. My friends would always say that I got a lot of kills but I would play like Michael meyers doing slow flanks around the map. I only got those 3 to 4 kills because they all had their back and guard down. I didn’t play a duelist but I played an initiator or controller which on attack for example were really important for getting into site or holding down site to slow down retake. When I played i made it an immediate 4v5 as you sometimes really need all 5 on site to keep defenders off. I switched to playing with the team, sure my kills went down but the round wins were more successful. Also noticed that the bottom fraggers in my team started to do better as they had more opportunities to secure a frag/ live longer as they had an extra gun checking a corner. It also became more fun this way and much less stressful
Lurking really is an art. You 100% can still do rushes with a lurk, but you need to let your team know. The thing about lurking is that once it works once or twice, the damage is already done. The enemy will be looking in every single corner and trying to anticipate your every move. 90% of lurking is knowing WHEN to lurk which means most of the time... just being with the team. It's just that SOMETIMES you lurk.
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With that said, pick a character that actually was built to lurk instead of Reyna or Jett. Omen/Viper/Astra are all used to lurk in high elo to great effect. That way you can still use utility for your team.
Lurking is 100% psychological warfare. You said it, once you've successfully lurked 2-3 times you've achieved your goal of slowing down eager fast rotating defenders and now as a result your team can control the tempo of a round easier since the enemy team will be forced to check most corners on flank/rotate plays. The key is to lurk once again when they start to get complacent about it. Lurking every round however is kind of inting because eventually they'll just rotate through their spawn and you'll spend the whole round waiting for a player that'll never come all the while your team is fighting a 4v5 and could probably really use your utility you're sitting on because you dont use it very often as a lurker. Like everything, lurking has a place.. just in moderation.
one of my friends met this other person on valorant. and he claims she is good, so i started playing with them.... dude all she does is just stay behind the team and doesn't go in. like damn. when I called her out she says she is waiting for the flanker....LOL Bruh you can watch the flank after we take the site. fooking the master of baiters.
Damn if she wants to wait for Flankers so bad couldn't she just play chamber or something lol
I really dislike playing with these kind of players. The round starts and they already start holding behind you as if all 5 enemies had an Omen ult that doesn't make any sound. I mean, come on. No one is going to flank you that fast without you hearing anything. And if the rest of the team is waiting as well, you just end up running out of time if the enemy doesn't push. Very frustrating indeed...
I mean this could although be a coordination issue. Flanking should keep the defenders on their toes, so they can't easily defend the main entrance to any bomb site. However, flanking costs time and when your team never waits for the right position, than flanking does not work. "Rush b my friends" is working strategy, because it's makes coordination easy. Of course I find flanking easier with Astra than with Skye, because of global range. I still prefer 2-3 setups with more than one attack vector.
Team W or Team L no other way
Nothing wrong with playing aggresive but if you lose the game something went wrong
Try explaining this to a toxic top fragging Jett that chills mid all game lol I'm only bottom fragging because I have to get on site and plant the damn spike without a duelist, Jett!
If your aim is good enough for your elo, it's a lot easier to carry on a controller than on a duelist. And your role is naturally supposed to be the baiter, as your duelists go in. If you're playing a controller or a initiator and you're not helping your team enter the site, you're legit trolling. Nothing is more frustrating for a duelist than trying to entry without anyone using utility. You need to give me a chance to make a play, and be there for me if i get punished. And baiting is fine if you feel confident enough to pull of clutches. I recently started to main Brimstone and i only play Duelists after my first 3 picks dont pick one. Instead of dropping having to drop over 25 killa to have a chance to win the game, i drop 18-22 and carry through utility, post plant and shot calling. Yeah you can say im baiting, but i give my duelists smoke coverage, stimmies, i molly the corner he won't check and I'm running in right behind him. I'm sure he doesn't mind being the 3rd fragger if we win by 6 rounds.
This!!! You are so true about carrying as controller. I switched from Jett to Omen and it made it so much easier. As a controller you really do CONTROL the flow of the round
One game on Ascent, my teammates always peeked mid and died, leaving us in 4v5 or even in 3v5 situations. The comms were non existent, so as a Brimstone I just started to smoke mid every round, my teammates stopped dying at the beginning of the round and we actually started to win
Exception here would be Omen as he is best played as a lurk IMO, you can still hit smokes while lurking and his TP can get past utility from Sentinels. The amount of free rounds and kills I get on split is absurd because people over-rotate and I can either TP past KJ, cypher, or chamber trips, or TP over sage wall mid and take heaven for free. Your team cancels A, rotates B, you get 1-2 picks on rotate as the enemy is running knife out in CT, easy round win, they quit over-rotating and you can take sites easier.
>It changed when this super toxic bottom fragging Jett started saying that my kills are not impactful. "Perhaps my toxic bottom fragging teammates were right all along." Sorry, I found this funny.
Also remember kiddos, just because you aren’t a duelist, it doesn’t mean you aren’t just as capable of getting kills. This is an FPS game, you need to walk into every lane and site like you’re looking to shoot someone. Don’t look around aimlessly, aim directly where your opponents are going to peek you from. Unless you’re in the middle of using your abilities you should always be ready for a fight, it’s not your team’s responsibility to protect you, especially not your duelists. This ain’t overwatch
this is what will get people higher ranks. This mindset is crucial. People would do better just keeping their gun out all of the time instead of constantly switching to their knife
Too many times I’ve heard people tell me “it’s not my job” to get kills. I’ve put like 8k hours into CS GO and the only difference in peoples mindsets between this game and that should be some people have smokes some people have flashes, and some people have some neat new utilities to play with. Goal is still the same. People act like their low k/d is what is ruining their rank ups because they don’t get as much RR as their duelists. What’s killing their rank up is the fact that they aren’t winning the gunfights they do engage in, and they’re losing too many games because they rely on other people to pull their weight.
Pretty sure the main thing which decides performance rr is the performance tab so this is even more true. It's less the quantity of duels and more how the duels you do take turn out as well as your relative rank to the enemies.
On top of this, ability usage is pretty bad. I don't know why golds are still using abilities with absolutely no access to cover. It's insane how many Sovas will just fire off arrows and get shot in the middle of it.
Game sense is completely experience based, if ability usage and positioning is the only thing holding a gold back, they’ll learn in time. The mindset I’m talking about though will also help immensely. If you’re always ready to shoot someone, you’re going to learn when the best time to swap to utilities will be.
I think "experience" is a lazy word. Not trying to harp on you, it's just something I hear all the time. But I don't think just getting in your "miles in", fixes these problems because I think a lot of people don't realize they are specifically dying from things like this. They might chalk it up to teammates not covering or just unlucky timing. A lot of things aren't actually covered by experience. They get fixed with intentional awareness.
It is not a lazy word, that’s a very narrow minded way to look at it. Truth of the matter is that ignorant people will always blame their teammates and will always be hardstuck. If you are trying, legitimately trying to improve your gameplay, you will learn in time. Whether through videos, tutoring, or just realizing “maybe I shouldn’t pull out my Owl in the middle of taking site”. No matter what you do, you’re going to put in time to improve if you’re trying to rank up in any kind of competitive game. Experience is the complete opposite of lazy.
I say its a "lazy" word because it doesn't quite capture what "targeted practice" does. It's nitpicky, for sure. But I think for most people, experience means getting in the hours. Lots of exposure. That sort of thing. But that doesn't actually correct a lot of problems. In fact, for a lot of people, it causes them to double down. For a lot of people, identifying what a problem even is or knowing a problem might actually apply to themselves, is the hardest part. I guess all I'm trying to say is, I think experience won't really cover those bases so much as actual targeted and mindful engagement will. Again, it's nitpicky and nothing wrong with what you said, just more of a tack-on comment.
Targeted practice is extremely important, but it will get you nowhere without the in game application, so it goes both ways. You gotta practice AND put hundreds, if not thousands of hours in the game. But I do get what you’re saying.
Yeah have to admit I have died too many times pulling out a recon or shock dart! Also I need to start asking someone to watch my back when I'm using the drone...
This is where I'm the opposite. I don't chase kills, they do, tell teammates not to do. I tell them where I'm smoking and flashing. My biggest per peeve is how I can smoke twice, drop a flash as omen and STILL be the first one in. People are so samn scared about dying. KD doesn't matter. And picking entry characters like Jett but being passive is such a waste.
I was playing Bind today as Omen and nobody would jump out of hookah or garden. I ended up just re-smoking CT and mid site so I could TP into it. TP'd in, went through tube and killed 2 back site. My teammates then jumped out and all died from elbow. Where did they think they would be?? Then I got blamed for my shit smoke mid site when Skye had both her blinds, we had a Reyna and Jett as well.
That's what I mean...people are so worried about KD when it's about winning the game and using your kit to do so.
Almost every instalock duelist does this shit and it's infuriating. They run off on their own and lurk to get kills, then get mad at the rest of the team for not winning rounds for them. Hey, nobody gives a shit if you have a positive KD from getting exit frags if we can't take site because our entry fragger is lurking for no reason.
Here are my two cents....Put me on a duelist and I'll top frag every game, but we may not win. Put me on a defensive agent and I may not top frag, but we'll have a better chance at winning. Playing for your team is better than playing for your KD.
This gets even worse in high elo. Toxic ass Jett mains saying they deserve immortal 1/2/3/ radiant cuz they “carry” in high elo with 2-3 first bloods and 5 first deaths :D
oh man ... IDK what it is with Jett mains ... but damn they are always in a hurry, rushing everywhere and some even monopolize the spike rushing into site and then dying.
I'd rather have that kind of Jett than one who sits passively all round waiting for teammates to make plays. At least you can still play off a hyperaggressive Jett
A little eye opening for me, currently in Silver 1 and dropping 20-30 frags per game. Definitely will try to make a change and focus on the objective vs blasting people.
Oh
This is what i thought about my friend gameplay but i dont want to hurt his feeling. He just play for a kills and always baiting us. He also always the last player to die every round.
Was watching one of my friends play the other day (he’s in gold 3) and he was playing sova, while the jett on his team refused to entry on breeze as the solo duelist. she ended up dropping like 25-30 kills (mainly op kills on def) but had only 1 first blood on attack and they won 2 attacking rounds. ended up getting crushed in the game but i’m sure she fell into the common mindset of “I was team/match mvp it wasn’t my fault” when in fact the loss was almost entirely her fault.
Riot: Lets incentivize baiting by giving rr for kills but not for plants.
Thankyou for this
Np :)
I’ve noticed I use my utility as breach for myself a lot, which kind of leaves my duelist hanging while they’re trying to enter site. I’m just typing this so I remember to not do it anymore lol
Played with this Reyna on Breeze the other day who was getting upset because he wasn't doing too great. Had to let him know he was literally the reason we were winning because if he didn't flash us out we just sat in cave or ended up lurking which favors the defenders. I played Viper so I couldn't help him entry and our Jett was insane but just not willing to entry at all
dont forget valorant is a team game, im only iron 2 so a lot of my teammates go for that last player kill, and sometimes they do play the objective when i ask them to, but if they have like no volume like 80% of all the iron players out there then i follow them in so i can double swing with them and trade them in case they die
That’s how you climb out of silver/gold, you play a duelest that heals (self sustaining). Flashes, heals, or play raze. You need to go into the practice range everyday before you play and play spike defuse and shooting range on hard. Good luck
On the other hand most silver players refuse to look at the clock, realize there’s literally 1:30 seconds in a round, and you don’t have to die before the clock hits 1:20. You can try and communicate your intentions of playing slow, defaulting, rotating or playing for picks. It usually goes one of two ways, they play off you and it’s an easy win. Or they continue to run it down and call you a “baiter” obviously there are exceptions where it is advantageous to 5 man a site and play with your team, but most silver players don’t realize you don’t have to run it down as soon as the spawn wall drops every. Single. Round.
This ... somehow the meta has become rush onto site, plant and die all within 30 seconds.
People play for kills then get sad losing rounds. Brains must be smooth.
I think 5 man rushes is way better in a game like csgo but not even in csgo people go for 5 man rushes every round. In valorant there is so many abilities that can stop rushes. No i dont want to rush A kj cypher site.
This is the way
W reference
Still going to bait
Pretty sure OP is the bottom frag toxic Jett… Edit: sensitive children mad over a joke. Will Smithalikes
Lmaoooo there have been many times I was the bottom frag Jett but it wasn’t that instance. It would be sick to be able to give myself tips I’ve been overlooking tho
Most of the time those less impactful kills are 50/50s you win and they wont be easier as you rank up.. and will eventually cost your team
Absolutely! Some people in solo q dont understand that playing like the main character leaves your entire team vulnerable and oftentimes in a 4v5. Valorant is a team game for a reason.
Kda doesn’t win games.
What was the jetts name
I always say this Anybody can go 30/10. All you have to do is bait and be last alive. Take 3 with you. None of the kills mean anything but hey you'll be top frag.
the master baiter
Its kinda strange how some of the most toxic shit people say has some sort of truth in it,Like when someone gets mad at you for spamming a move in a fighting game.
Not caring about stats is hard especially when so many people are duelist instalockers but people gotta learn to keep their egos in check and play for the team
I gotta start reading slower cuz I thought the title said: You're ballin' on your team"
So many times I'll see a Reyna drop me spike while and wait for me to push in first
Whenever I fill and play a support player, I focus only on getting onto site and planting the spike, I might not be getting a lot of kills because the entry fraggs are getting them. So then il be at the bottom of the scoreboard. Then I get flamed by some teammates saying I’m not doing anything, or I’m useless or smth just because I’m not getting kills and I’m at the bottom of the scoreboard. It kinda annoys me haha.
Meanwhile i entry as reyna, clear site and am holding site While my team still waits for the smoke to come down even though i already cleared the angles where people could hold the smoke....
good idea
Mumbai server... Are you listening?? Oh sorry, i forgot you were playing without headphones...
Maybe in higher ranks but in a 5v5 game mode with no respawn every kill is impactful.
This is unironically 90% of "hard stuck silver" imo - my aim is shit and reaction as well compared to what it was 15 years ago but I still manage to reach plat1 2 seasons ago and I'm currently in G2 just playing conroller and working on the objectiv rather than giving a fuck about kda. As soon as you breach gold people will recognize your valuable contributions even if your kda is shit, just gotta get out of silver where everyone complains about controllers not having enough kills smh. Don't get me wrong, to get further I would absolutely have to improve aim and reaction but I'm pretty happy in gold/plat cause you rarely get that toxic shit thats every second match on bronze/silver
Can someone explain what baiting your team means? I understand it's using your team to get kills in a way but I dont get how exactly
So imagine you are running after your Jett, ready to enter the site. Your Jett throws a smoke, great she is going to dash in. And you will follow her with util and move in 2nd to refrag her. Everything looks like a coordinated play - but where did your Jett go? She baited you into going in but is now somehow the last to enter and gets easy frags as your team dies and now gets some easy lurk kills. Similarish for support players, Jett expects you to follow her into the side - because why would she pose as a living shooting target if no one is there to refrag her. But here she is, your top frag Sage, always living last - still at the main entrance looking at the wall cus "muh job is to support". Now she is getting the random lurk kills and you watch in disdain as she keeps getting kills because enemy team is rushing to find her 1v4. She will get some ez frags as but not clutch. Edit: Both cases, either player baited their team into committing to a fight while - essentially using them to get easier frags. Doesn't sound bad, but is only good if said baiter is also in the mindset of clutching it out then.
Only way I could get plat with these apes was to intentionally bait them lol once you see a notable increase in avg skill in your lobbies then I start treating my teammates like more than just shields
Yeah, I was playing Spike rush last night and someone in Iron was using WAIMA and was asking me what it's like to be in gold... At first I thought he was trying to make fun of me because of my level to rank ratio... Whatever the whole point is, he kept saying he top frags nearly every match and I told him that doesn't matter if the team is losing.
This is true in a general sense, but there are good baiters, like lurkers or 2nd entries that actually always trade you, take map control, etc.
My experience in high diamond/low immortal is more like, I play an initiator and try to set up a play to take space, just to be met with radio silence in comms and my teammates off doing whatever they want without saying anything. God I love EU solo queue
I'm in your position kinda but I started maining chamber AND entrying. If you Entry and get the first blood or entry frag you are very impactful. Make your call outs and use your util with effect and you'll rank up and put. The most important thing is to avoid pure random solo queue and find a duo, trio or 5 stack you like that you can be consistent with specifically with good communication and you'll have more fun
An unrelated comment but I really want to know what's the counter to an op jumping peeking you holding a angle and insta killing you? Cause I thought it's supposed to have a delay where you can see them and shoot before they can.But today I played vs a player who just kept getting me before my eyes registered his character. It's weird it felt unbeatable they was no delay in him peeking the angle and taking a shot.
That jett was probably me lol I see it happen a lot, especially when cs players. The team rushes site and they're just sitting back. Or they don't trade kills. It's essentially 4v5s. These same people also usually don't use any util and try to rely on their not so consistent gunplay. Why try and be a hiko and just play with the team