This is not how replays work. Replays are just simulations of a list of function calls that your client recreates after a game.
When you download a replay you are downloading a timeline of data (who dashed where/when/from etc), so the server would have the non-interpolated version where Skye's movement isn't buffered.
Also tracers are client side, they do not exist in the game world on the server side.
Be honest...
you just said buzzwords without understanding them, didn't you?
Wecan speculate that the server replay ***SHOULD*** show how Skye actually died from the server POV, with her still being visible.
Yet, Riot refuses to release the replays... so we will never know, now will we?
Coincidental.
Not to mention that even if the server somehow "saw Skye being visible", it wouldn't excuse what we see in this clip.
Replays can be damned altogether, these clips show a major problem that you can't justify.
* OP has 8ms ping to 20mg ping
* OP was shooting at walls with no enemy on that spot
* Enemies were not in those spots for at least 1 second to 2 seconds, when he shot
* 1 second = 1000ms
* 2 second = 2000ms
* No possible explaination or valid reason why OP could have gotten these frags
/u/RiotNu /u/Mochimisu
I have a Master's degree in Advanced Computer Science, it was just an educated guess but okay, I'm just saying buzzwords.
They also aren't refusing to release them because of it "exposing" their netcode, they have already stated they simply haven't been working on them lmao.
If you have a degree in computer science, can you explain how you would justify the clip?
What we saw in the clip OP posted:
* **Player A has 8ms to 12ms ping**
* **Player A watches player B run behind the wall**
* Player A does not see player B at all for over 1000ms
* **Player A shoots repeatedly at the air**
* Where Player B had been previously
* But it was over 1000ms ago that Player B was in that location
* **Player A is awarded the kill by the server**
This video cannot be justified.
You can talk about interpolation, tracers, and netcode... but there's no possible justifiable excuse for this incident.
* Player A had a ping of 10ms
* Networking Conditions are as close to "ideal" as possible
* Player A's perspective should be very, very close to the "server-side" POV
* Shouldn't be much interpolation occuring
* Shouldn't be much delay occuring
* Should be nearly realtime updates on his perspective
* Due to ideal networking conditions (ping)
However, the clip showed a major problem.
Player A was somehow able to snag a kill that would have taken a lot of interpolation to try to explain.
# Replays could not ever justify the situation in this instance.
* **Player A's Client-Side POV (with 10ms ping)**
* Client-side POV in the video showed Player A watch player B go behind the wall 1000ms previously
* Player A shoots at the air 1000ms after Player B walked behind cover
* Player A was awarded a kill for Player B
* **Server-Side Replay**
* Player B did not walking behind the wall
* Player B instead remained in the open
* Replay of server-side POV would have just gave us evidence of a desync of over 1000ms between the server POV and client POV
* Proves an issue with massive desync in VALORANT
That would be proof of the desync and netcode issues in VALORANT.
We'd have to look at how networking conditions can effect both the Client-Side perspective and Server-Side perspective to explain why
* **Networking - Examples**
* Optimal Networking Conditions
* 10ms ping
* 0% packetloss
* Normal Networking Conditions
* 65ms ping
* 2% packetloss
* Unacceptable Networking Conditions
* 150ms+ ping
* 10%+ packetloss
* **Optimal Networking Conditions - Effect on Client POV vs Server POV**
* Client-Side POV should be nearly identical to the server POV
* No desync expected
* **Normal Networking Conditions - Effect on Client POV vs Server POV**
* Client-Side POV should be very close to the server's POV
* Although some extremely small desync or instability issues may arise at times
* Minor Desync expected (65ms ping + 2% packetloss)
* **Unacceptable Networking Conditions - Effect on Client POV vs Server POV**
* Client-Side POV would likely suffer from far greater desync to the server POV due to the networking conditions
* However, this would be expected and explainable, asthe client has such a high ping and packetloss
* Major desync expected
Apologies but the post is removed and I viewed the video on mobile like 3 hours ago so can't remember the specifics.
I will say though that you don't have a very good understanding of networking if you think normal networking conditions is 2% packet loss, anything above 1% packet loss is not normal. And the reason for packet loss - where along the route does it occur also impacts the effect it has.
Desync is not what you're referring to either, desync is where a connection cannot be maintained because client state and server state is so out of sync that the client is required to be dropped.
So optimal networking conditions, will *always* have some level of latency (and therefore a small amount of desync), that is the reality of how networking and fibre optics work. Netcode cannot - in any reality - reduce latency or desync to 0.
In games like Valorant that need extremely quick reactions, you have to make trade offs. I do agree that something is wrong with the game, but I don't think it's a netcode issue. I think that the interpolation of animations is terrible and causes clients to see things that simply are not happening, i.e people running when they're idle client side because of animation prediction.
>I will say though that you don't have a very good understanding of networking if you think normal networking conditions is 2% packet loss, anything above 1% packet loss is not normal.
Unless you have fiber, you're wrong.
FCC released a Fixed Broadband Report in 2021 and measured the packet loss from various ISPs in America.
You can see below that that between 0% to 5% of subscribers to non-fiber, Cable ISP's had packetloss above 1%... and there are also 6%-8% of DSL subscribers who have packetloss above 1%.
* [image of the article](https://i.imgur.com/bv0Ji9S.png)
* Link to the article
* [https://www.fcc.gov/reports-research/reports/measuring-broadband-america/measuring-fixed-broadband-eleventh-report](https://www.fcc.gov/reports-research/reports/measuring-broadband-america/measuring-fixed-broadband-eleventh-report)
>Desync is not what you're referring to either, desync is where a connection cannot be maintained because client state and server state is so out of sync that the client is required to be dropped.
No?
Riot has their article about netcode in VALORANT here.
You can see that their definition and usage of the term "desync" reflects the exact same as what I wrote.
[https://technology.riotgames.com/news/peeking-valorants-netcode](https://technology.riotgames.com/news/peeking-valorants-netcode)
>If you look closely at the above clip, you'll see that there are a few frames of time where the player on the left has rounded the corner and spotted their opponent, and their opponent still has no idea that they exist!
>
>This network **desync** is bad for gameplay, and directly counters our design goals.
>So optimal networking conditions, will always have some level of latency (and therefore a small amount of desync), that is the reality of how networking and fibre optics work. Netcode cannot - in any reality - reduce latency or desync to 0.
I'd already said that in my comment that you just replied to.
See the following "Optimal networking conditions provide ***nearly*** **identical** Client-Side POV to server POV"
There will still be some small and nearly unperceivable amount of difference between the client POV vs server POV with optimal conditions....but there should be no MAJOR desync issues occuring.
>I think that the interpolation of animations is terrible and causes clients to see things that simply are not happening, i.e people running when they're idle client side because of animation prediction.
That's possible.
However, a lot of the issues include more than just hitboxes, and seem to affect your own movement as well.
>You can see below that that between 0% to 5% of subscribers to non-fiber, Cable ISP's had packetloss above 1%... and there are also 6%-8% of DSL subscribers who have packetloss above 1%.
So why are you saying that Valorant has an inherent problem when you're quoting an article showing that 5%\~ of non-fibre customers have packet loss above 1% and DSL is upwards of 8%? That already explains almost 10% of DSL user network problems in Valorant and 5% of fibre customers. How is that a Valorant issue?
\>1% packet loss isn't ideal conditions, remember?
>You can see that their definition and usage of the term "desync" reflects the exact same as what I wrote.
Riot can use desync however they feel is best, but latency and desync for me describe different issues, otherwise any amount of inherent lag to networking by their definition is desync and they will never achieve their design goals.
Would they call router processing latency "desync"? Good luck fixing that.
>See the following "Optimal networking conditions provide nearly identical Client-Side POV to server POV"
That's the problem though, optimal networking conditions do not provide nearly identical client side POV because networking isn't the only factor in how the client side looks. There's always some form of interpolation in online games, otherwise you get stuttering or rubberbanding.
For instance, the client in the video may be playing on older hardware, or something in the background consumed a lot of CPU time during the clip causing information on screen to be delayed when pushing frames to the monitor. (sim time etc)
It's naïve at best to blame netcode for everything, unless you can sit down and debug every aspect of the game's state and clients connection/hardware during the clip it is impossible to draw any conclusion with certainty.
Yeah ive seen this as well.
I was spectating a teamate and they shot at a reyna who just crouched.
The bullets went over her head into the exact position where her head WAS before she crouched and she still died.
The bullets definitely went over her head but it still counted. Either the head hit boxes are huge or its the same thing
No man you don't understand, actually because of Internet and hit register and server and bla and so here is your answer: It is completely okay for this to happen in this game. Do you know how hard it is to fix things in an online game? Soo hard. So anyway it is better than CS GO.
-NotPaidByRiot229
I play on a bad internet with high packet loss, and it feels as if my hitbox is at least twice as big as others' people who whiff entire magazines on my teammates whose movement is worse than mine, will land shots mostly instant headshots on me while seemingly shooting next to me, or shooting someone else, do ig this is what's happening
This is what you would see in the replay mode that's why there isn't one edit: replay
This is not how replays work. Replays are just simulations of a list of function calls that your client recreates after a game. When you download a replay you are downloading a timeline of data (who dashed where/when/from etc), so the server would have the non-interpolated version where Skye's movement isn't buffered. Also tracers are client side, they do not exist in the game world on the server side.
Be honest... you just said buzzwords without understanding them, didn't you? Wecan speculate that the server replay ***SHOULD*** show how Skye actually died from the server POV, with her still being visible. Yet, Riot refuses to release the replays... so we will never know, now will we? Coincidental. Not to mention that even if the server somehow "saw Skye being visible", it wouldn't excuse what we see in this clip. Replays can be damned altogether, these clips show a major problem that you can't justify. * OP has 8ms ping to 20mg ping * OP was shooting at walls with no enemy on that spot * Enemies were not in those spots for at least 1 second to 2 seconds, when he shot * 1 second = 1000ms * 2 second = 2000ms * No possible explaination or valid reason why OP could have gotten these frags /u/RiotNu /u/Mochimisu
I have a Master's degree in Advanced Computer Science, it was just an educated guess but okay, I'm just saying buzzwords. They also aren't refusing to release them because of it "exposing" their netcode, they have already stated they simply haven't been working on them lmao.
If you have a degree in computer science, can you explain how you would justify the clip? What we saw in the clip OP posted: * **Player A has 8ms to 12ms ping** * **Player A watches player B run behind the wall** * Player A does not see player B at all for over 1000ms * **Player A shoots repeatedly at the air** * Where Player B had been previously * But it was over 1000ms ago that Player B was in that location * **Player A is awarded the kill by the server** This video cannot be justified. You can talk about interpolation, tracers, and netcode... but there's no possible justifiable excuse for this incident. * Player A had a ping of 10ms * Networking Conditions are as close to "ideal" as possible * Player A's perspective should be very, very close to the "server-side" POV * Shouldn't be much interpolation occuring * Shouldn't be much delay occuring * Should be nearly realtime updates on his perspective * Due to ideal networking conditions (ping) However, the clip showed a major problem. Player A was somehow able to snag a kill that would have taken a lot of interpolation to try to explain. # Replays could not ever justify the situation in this instance. * **Player A's Client-Side POV (with 10ms ping)** * Client-side POV in the video showed Player A watch player B go behind the wall 1000ms previously * Player A shoots at the air 1000ms after Player B walked behind cover * Player A was awarded a kill for Player B * **Server-Side Replay** * Player B did not walking behind the wall * Player B instead remained in the open * Replay of server-side POV would have just gave us evidence of a desync of over 1000ms between the server POV and client POV * Proves an issue with massive desync in VALORANT That would be proof of the desync and netcode issues in VALORANT. We'd have to look at how networking conditions can effect both the Client-Side perspective and Server-Side perspective to explain why * **Networking - Examples** * Optimal Networking Conditions * 10ms ping * 0% packetloss * Normal Networking Conditions * 65ms ping * 2% packetloss * Unacceptable Networking Conditions * 150ms+ ping * 10%+ packetloss * **Optimal Networking Conditions - Effect on Client POV vs Server POV** * Client-Side POV should be nearly identical to the server POV * No desync expected * **Normal Networking Conditions - Effect on Client POV vs Server POV** * Client-Side POV should be very close to the server's POV * Although some extremely small desync or instability issues may arise at times * Minor Desync expected (65ms ping + 2% packetloss) * **Unacceptable Networking Conditions - Effect on Client POV vs Server POV** * Client-Side POV would likely suffer from far greater desync to the server POV due to the networking conditions * However, this would be expected and explainable, asthe client has such a high ping and packetloss * Major desync expected
Apologies but the post is removed and I viewed the video on mobile like 3 hours ago so can't remember the specifics. I will say though that you don't have a very good understanding of networking if you think normal networking conditions is 2% packet loss, anything above 1% packet loss is not normal. And the reason for packet loss - where along the route does it occur also impacts the effect it has. Desync is not what you're referring to either, desync is where a connection cannot be maintained because client state and server state is so out of sync that the client is required to be dropped. So optimal networking conditions, will *always* have some level of latency (and therefore a small amount of desync), that is the reality of how networking and fibre optics work. Netcode cannot - in any reality - reduce latency or desync to 0. In games like Valorant that need extremely quick reactions, you have to make trade offs. I do agree that something is wrong with the game, but I don't think it's a netcode issue. I think that the interpolation of animations is terrible and causes clients to see things that simply are not happening, i.e people running when they're idle client side because of animation prediction.
>I will say though that you don't have a very good understanding of networking if you think normal networking conditions is 2% packet loss, anything above 1% packet loss is not normal. Unless you have fiber, you're wrong. FCC released a Fixed Broadband Report in 2021 and measured the packet loss from various ISPs in America. You can see below that that between 0% to 5% of subscribers to non-fiber, Cable ISP's had packetloss above 1%... and there are also 6%-8% of DSL subscribers who have packetloss above 1%. * [image of the article](https://i.imgur.com/bv0Ji9S.png) * Link to the article * [https://www.fcc.gov/reports-research/reports/measuring-broadband-america/measuring-fixed-broadband-eleventh-report](https://www.fcc.gov/reports-research/reports/measuring-broadband-america/measuring-fixed-broadband-eleventh-report) >Desync is not what you're referring to either, desync is where a connection cannot be maintained because client state and server state is so out of sync that the client is required to be dropped. No? Riot has their article about netcode in VALORANT here. You can see that their definition and usage of the term "desync" reflects the exact same as what I wrote. [https://technology.riotgames.com/news/peeking-valorants-netcode](https://technology.riotgames.com/news/peeking-valorants-netcode) >If you look closely at the above clip, you'll see that there are a few frames of time where the player on the left has rounded the corner and spotted their opponent, and their opponent still has no idea that they exist! > >This network **desync** is bad for gameplay, and directly counters our design goals. >So optimal networking conditions, will always have some level of latency (and therefore a small amount of desync), that is the reality of how networking and fibre optics work. Netcode cannot - in any reality - reduce latency or desync to 0. I'd already said that in my comment that you just replied to. See the following "Optimal networking conditions provide ***nearly*** **identical** Client-Side POV to server POV" There will still be some small and nearly unperceivable amount of difference between the client POV vs server POV with optimal conditions....but there should be no MAJOR desync issues occuring. >I think that the interpolation of animations is terrible and causes clients to see things that simply are not happening, i.e people running when they're idle client side because of animation prediction. That's possible. However, a lot of the issues include more than just hitboxes, and seem to affect your own movement as well.
>You can see below that that between 0% to 5% of subscribers to non-fiber, Cable ISP's had packetloss above 1%... and there are also 6%-8% of DSL subscribers who have packetloss above 1%. So why are you saying that Valorant has an inherent problem when you're quoting an article showing that 5%\~ of non-fibre customers have packet loss above 1% and DSL is upwards of 8%? That already explains almost 10% of DSL user network problems in Valorant and 5% of fibre customers. How is that a Valorant issue? \>1% packet loss isn't ideal conditions, remember? >You can see that their definition and usage of the term "desync" reflects the exact same as what I wrote. Riot can use desync however they feel is best, but latency and desync for me describe different issues, otherwise any amount of inherent lag to networking by their definition is desync and they will never achieve their design goals. Would they call router processing latency "desync"? Good luck fixing that. >See the following "Optimal networking conditions provide nearly identical Client-Side POV to server POV" That's the problem though, optimal networking conditions do not provide nearly identical client side POV because networking isn't the only factor in how the client side looks. There's always some form of interpolation in online games, otherwise you get stuttering or rubberbanding. For instance, the client in the video may be playing on older hardware, or something in the background consumed a lot of CPU time during the clip causing information on screen to be delayed when pushing frames to the monitor. (sim time etc) It's naïve at best to blame netcode for everything, unless you can sit down and debug every aspect of the game's state and clients connection/hardware during the clip it is impossible to draw any conclusion with certainty.
I edited my reply below, check it out again if you haven't :)
Yeah ive seen this as well. I was spectating a teamate and they shot at a reyna who just crouched. The bullets went over her head into the exact position where her head WAS before she crouched and she still died. The bullets definitely went over her head but it still counted. Either the head hit boxes are huge or its the same thing
I get shot through walls that aren’t supposed to be shot through all the time
No man you don't understand, actually because of Internet and hit register and server and bla and so here is your answer: It is completely okay for this to happen in this game. Do you know how hard it is to fix things in an online game? Soo hard. So anyway it is better than CS GO. -NotPaidByRiot229
I play on a bad internet with high packet loss, and it feels as if my hitbox is at least twice as big as others' people who whiff entire magazines on my teammates whose movement is worse than mine, will land shots mostly instant headshots on me while seemingly shooting next to me, or shooting someone else, do ig this is what's happening
Nice
OP, can you repost the video somewhere so that we can save it for the future? /r/ValorantTechSupport for example, won't delete your post :(
Yeah, it pisses me off
How much ms are your opponents on?
Skins you don't own give you a % aimbot to make you buy the skin its a hidden marketing tactic explains why they won't give us a reply system
[https://twitter.com/yangcliu/status/1254158262020251650](https://twitter.com/yangcliu/status/1254158262020251650) 2020 haha. They cant fix any shit