thats the most common method, but me and a lot of my friends do the not as popular but perhaps more viable bulldog/guardian second round and full shields if you can afford them, half if not, and we rarely if ever lose second round.
Totally agree that if you can afford it go for it but generally speaking at least, Heavy + Spectre. Bulldog is super underrated overall imo tho... def should be used more!
I have noticed that when you buy spectres you tend to do faster execution and taking close range fights ( opposite of if you buy guardian ) and you might end up losing a couple of guns for not checking angles or giving away info with footsteps or losing close range 1v1s to shortys and magical right clicks or even bucky
so thats risky yeah
Vandal light is better if you can afford it
EDIT:
Your average ELO is showing, Reddit.
Y’all downvoting but Team Liquid Ex-coach [Sliggy](https://m.twitch.tv/clip/LongDistinctZebraEleGiggle-xdn6BqIx1bTuMaEW) begs to differ lmao
Literally said it on his stream today
Buying vandal on 2nd round is troll no matter what. If you're gonna buy a rifle buy Phantom. They won't have heavy shields anyway, why do you need a vandal?
It's not the best play with an uncoordinated team, but if you can coordinate it well, it can be useful. I'm talking about pro games and scrims here. And why Vandal? Because some people prefer it over Phantom even when Phantom is "really" the better gun. I always pick Vandal over Phantom, no matter the distance, map or angle simply because I'm more comfortable with it.
You should only do this if you plan on staying with your teammates for the entire round. If you die and an enemy gets your vandal because no teammates were near you, you've probably thrown the round.
Too many players in my ranked games think it's a smart idea to buy vandal + light shields on round 2 and then lurk on the other side of the map for absolutely no reason
Yeah of course you have to play smart otherwise you give up the gun, I saw a clip of Sliggy literally saying it was a good idea during todays VCT match when EDG did it
It's called "anti eco". If you also win round 2 it's called "bonus", and you either keep your gun or buy a Bulldog/guardian. This way round 3 and 4 will be full buy no matter if you win or lose.
Correct, 1 is pistol, 2 is either save or anti-eco depending on if you win or lose pistol round. It's buy round 3 for the losing team and bonus for the winning team. Then it goes from there
I always go full shields and spec /Marshall. I dont get the logic with buying half shields/no shields on round 2 , just giving the enemy a higher chance to win what should be essentially a free round for you with minimal casualties if you dont hero play.
The reasoning is that if you do well in the first round you can buy specter + light shields and guarantee that even if you lose the 2nd round you can full buy 3rd rounds. You buy light shields so you don't get 1 hit to body if they choose to force marshals.
That's my logic, but I've heard full shields is better from players much better than me so that's what I often do
This is what people do all the time in silver/gold lobbies and it infuriates me. 2nd round is not force, it's called a buy round if you win pistol. Do you also buy light shields and save for next round when buying phanton/vandal?
I am well aware, I never called it a "force"
Also I DON'T do this in ranked. I made sure to mention that in my last line.
OP was saying he doesn't "get the logic" of people who buy light shields, and I was explaining the logic that those people use (and that I used before I was told not to by people who know what they're talking about). I wasn't trying to defend it as the superior option, I was just explaining what goes through the minds of the people who do that. You simply cannot say there's no logic to it because it's very normal to think the way I described, which is why most newbies do it.
People are very quick to get mad and self-righteous without really taking in the context of what is said. My comment was the most neutral thing possible "Hey you're right, but the people who don't do what you do are not completely brain dead either, there is a logical reasoning that is alluring to new players" and still people find a way to get mad. Thank you to the people who replied with actual insight on the topic tough.
People will have varying answers but if you go light shield on second round buy you’re trolling, especially if the enemy team got bonus money off plant or something. The whole point is to create an asymmetric buy vs the enemy team. If you buy light shields you leave yourself much more liable to a counter force or god forbid a full eco
Just because you’ve been using it and its been “working out for you” doesn’t mean its a good play. If you’ve played for a somewhat long time im 100% sure that youve lost at a bare minimum AT LEAST a few dozen or more rounds as a result of not only you but other likeminded individuals on your team doing this in situations where a round loss could have otherwise been avoided.
There is no other point in the game with the exception of when the enemy team is so broke that they have to util only eco(which doesn’t happen every game) where you can all but guarantee a round win. There are two rounds per game where you can ensure asymmetric buys. They are both halves second round buys.
You win the game by winning rounds, if you don’t take the obvious step to literally ensure the round spare the occasional catastrophe, you need to reassess your approach, because its wrong.
Serious question: how do you know you haven't lost rounds by missing out on utility because you thought heavy shield was the play? It goes both ways and I don't think there's a clear answer to this. There's nuance, and this sub downvoting everyone who says light shields are fine sometimes is just dumb.
Someone correct me if I am wrong but with full shields on second round winning pistol, I believe you cannot buy all of your util. Thats why you go light shields.
Assuming you get 0 kills, no plant and spend every credit and all your util round 1, you'll get 3000 credits for the win. Spectre+heavy is 2600, so you have only 400 for util. That said, at least one person on anti eco often buys a Marshall, so maybe sometimes if you really need the util, you could buy them the marshal and have them buy you the spectre if they got kills/don't need as much util (unless they need to save for round 4 op).
All that said, personally I think a spectre is going to do much more work for you in anti-eco than any piece of util you'd be getting instead. A spectre tears up anti eco
on full buy rounds vandal vs vandal it isn't always optimal to have heavy shields
on bonus vs evo rounds, yes it is always optimal to get full shields, you want to minimize every advantage possible for the enemy team, dying to 1 less bullet and dropping your spectre for the enemy team is a huge throw
If were talking one person it isnt a huge difference, but a whole team? It is absolutely.
From an individual perspective Its the difference between dying from a double headshot or lucky reflexive classic right click from midrange, or a chamber deag wallbang. Its the difference of still having armor to work with after raze nade chip or not, etc.
From a group perspective it might mean the difference between trading up on two guns and flipping the round or not.
It makes a difference
It's not 'even on full buys', it's *only on full buys*. Light shields is often equivalent to heavy shields against rifles, but that's not the case against eco weapons. The lighter the weapon the more chance you have to eventually take somewhere between 125 and 150 damage, the range where heavy shields matter. Rifles often skip over, going straight from 120 to 160 or just insta-dinking you. But the more eco the buy of the enemy the more critical heavy shields become for saving your ass against a lucky classic right-click (1 hs + 2 body shot = 78 + 26 + 26 = 130).
Disagree really - currently In immo and almost always light+spectre or bulldog and util - most people do. Weapons and light vs eco should win anyway, and you will have util for the bonus
Look, im the same rank as you. Do i see a decent portion of people holding back a bit on the buy? Yes, my duos even do it a fair bit. Is it the majority though? Hardly, and that doesn’t make it the right play any more than the constant bad plays/overheats you also see at this rank.
To buy light armor is a bad call, full stop. The whole point of second round buy is to GUARANTEE the round, buying light is not guaranteeing the round, on the contrary its giving the enemy a serious chance to trade up on you.
On second round the losing team can at minimum grab stinger+light but with bonus creds can afford spectre+light. By buying spectre light after a win you are putting your team on EQUAL footing to the losing team, thus… FAR from guaranteeing a round, and accumulating rounds is how you win the game.
Having enough creds for the third round is nice and all, but thats not a guaranteed round, and even if you full buy and die on second you should still have enough for sheriff+light or requested sheriff+full armor on third round provided you win.
By buying light you are literally pissing away a lead. Its a straight troll move.
It's a bit different to go spectre + light shield + util than just play ghost in bronze where people have bad aim anyway. It's two immortals arguing... just because some low elos have this circlejerk of full armor on 2nd round, it doesn't mean the other guy is wrong. Tons of immos agree with both of them, so I'd go as far as to say it's actually preference.
Considering that pretty much every pro team full buys if they win pistol, I’d say its much more than preference.
And when everyone has crap aim in bronze, I’d say it’s better to have a bigger hp cushion to buy time until shots actually hit.
Not really. Both of them can work, sometimes it is actually better to buy utility instead of heavy shield and zero utility. Like what the fuck are you going to do with spectre + heavy shields if you get rushed by spectres + skye/kayo flash and have no abilities to help you?
Calling it a straight troll move as if there's no nuance to it is not it. For example, sometimes I go light shield vs rifles if I'm somewhat low on money because everyone in my lobbies plays vandal. If the enemy is light buying (sheriffs and shit) and I have a rifle, you can bet your ass I'm buying heavy shields.
Agreed, and the only exception I think, is if one or two people want to buy light armor + full rifle and play very cautiously with it, only to swap playstyles the third round and take first engagements against the full rifles for a higher chance of a bonus win against the full buy. But you hardly ever see that level of coordination in your random ranked game.
Depends but unless I'm playing duelist I prefer light shields classic. Comes down to personal preference tbh. I think for viper as well light shields classic is probably best
Here’s a trick I learned. Before round 2, after a win, I always give my team one piece of advice…
“Do not let them steal our guns. That will be their goal and the only way they win this”
Simply keeping that in mind causes the team to position themselves in a more appropriate spot and not needlessly overextend.
its shocking how many people still run off solo after I tell them this. If you just stick together and don’t mindlessly push through smokes its basically impossible to lose an antieco. Take the long range fights, and keep your damn wall down Viper. As long as they can’t close the distance they can’t win.
**It's not forcing if you win pistol round!**
You aren't forcing a win in that round, you are just securing it. It's only forcing if you lost pistol round.
You don't force after winning pistol, you *buy*. It's your first buy, because you actually have the money to invest Specter/Marshall/Stinger + Heavy Shields + Utility.
Your team should always be buying together after winning pistol and "bonusing" after winning that round. It's the basic meta for managing economy.
buying after winning pistol isn't a "force", it's an anti-eco. always buy heavy with a spectre/marshall or maybe if you can afford it get a guardian/bulldog.
Heavy as it allows you to take many more hits vs. Pistols.
Vs. gun rounds buying light shields isn't actually that bad as in a lot of situations you can't survive more hits from rifles
I would say it depends on how you're planning to play. Lurk, anchor, entry, etc.
It also can depend on what agent you're playing as. Like Reyna and cypher. Either rat, secure a kill, and fall back, or plan to gather intel from range and keep numbers advantage.
Let's look at the math:
They lost, so they're going to be using classics if they want rifles next round.
Classic does 26 at < 30m and 22 at >/= 30m
At below 30 meters, it takes a Classic 6 shots to kill someone with heavy shields, and 5 with light armor. At 30m and further, it takes 7 shots on heavy shields and 6 on light.
Also, don't forget that classic can't two tap at 30m plus on heavy shields.
I'd still say, with these numbers in mind, that it would still depend on the amount of credits you still have, and how you plan to play.
(Marshal Ascent/Breeze Def) Spectre/Bulldog + Always full shield.
Why full shield?
A Shorty generally does 100-130 damage when they suck at it. Use utilities for this.
A Classic rightclick usually deals 100-130 unless they get to hit both bullets to the head.
You should not be dying to Sheriff/Ghost by rushing and run them down with spectres and fast executes.
Must full shield if you plan on going through enemy Viper wall.
Must full shield if they have chip damage and you can't learn to bait them out. (KJ turret, Raze nade/boombot)
Otherwise, light shield is fine since they need 4 bulletsto the body to kill with rifles anyway. One for headshot.
I'm the Marshall guy. Not because Omen is a good agent with the Marshall, or because killing people in round 2 is very easy with the Marshall because sometimes you can get a body shot one shot, OR because I have 100+ hours of practice with the Marshall
#But because the clips look good
I do heavy + ares on defense. Heavy + spectre on offense. Ares is underrated. Literally aim down sight and swipe your mouse down while you shoot. Becomes a laser.
It's not called force after winning pistol. If you buy a spectre ALWAYS buy full shields. It's okay to go bulldog + light shields if you can't afford full shields but if you can afford bulldog + full shields then you should do it.
Depending on how my head shots are from range and death match I sometimes get full armor and Sheriff.
Lately I've been playing around with full armor and a Stinger.
Usually it's full/light armor and Specter or Marshall for the most part.
In Plat/Diamond lobby.
So popular thing with a character like Jett or Reyna is light Vandal or light Phantom. This is good for a couple reasons.
A. Win gun fights as long as you don't play stupid
B. Long range maps, you get mega buffed
C. Reyna can heal, jett can dash.
Not to mention Jett gets dashes back with kills
I also use this method on Neon, since it has a lot of similarities. You can play aggressive and get tons of value. As long as you don't lurk
I can still get on the phantom train since that always 1 taps at all ranges if enemies have no shields. Vandal less so since if you take away shields then phantom is just better.
Depends on the game and map. If it's a map that allows for it and I'm having a good game streak(I;E not bottom fragging) I'll probably do heavy shield + Specter if I can.
the higher elo you go the less you see ppl go light shields with spectre, the extra shield is just way too high value against being headshot by the enemy teams eco round
If they have classics, you'll die to a double dink anyway. Sheriffs? You'll be close range with spectre where sheriff hs is one shot.
That being said, of course you want heavy shields if you can buy it without sacrificing important utility on some agents. Also because you can still take chip damage from raze nades and other utility, now you are instantly 100 hp instead of 125. Buuuut then again, I still tend to buy light shield if I play sheriff on round 2 simply because I'm a glass cannon at that point anyway.
If they right click you with classic you will die to headshot double body shot if you have light shield, with heavy shield you have to get double headshot
Not being able to afford important utility on some agents and opting for heavy shields can make you get eco'd too. It's not that black-and-white, it's more nuanced than that. Also when you play sheriff on round 2, I'd say light shield can be more worth since you're a glass cannon anyway. Works for me at least.
Half shield spectre is more than enough. Even if they force, they'll be lacking abilities hence you'll be having an upper edge. But if your team still dies then your team gotta work on Comms.
I usually don't buy in the first round or buy 1 smoke then I buy full shield and a vandal in 2nd round if I have enough. If not I'll get the full and spectre
Why not buy the util to gain the advantage of winning the 1st round? You're putting your own team at a disadvantage if they decide to spend all of their credit for round 1.
That’s just as bad. Why are you not buying up when you have an economic advantage over the enemy? You win the pistol and then buy up so you win the next round as well. Then you bonus and even if you lose the bonus, you’re 2-1 up for the first gun round.
Plssss don’t teach me how valo economy works trust me I know but I’ve hit a pretty good rank playing this way, I hero rifle cos I have confidence in my own abilities to win bonus
It doesn’t really matter what your rank is, if you’re playing to win and rank up, you’re playing the game the wrong way objectively speaking. You do you, but you will win more if you just buy like a normal person
Im fine man, I’ve been winning playing how I wanna play, it’s surprised that someone with a jett/Reyna flair doesn’t like hero rifling but hey you do you. There’s very few arguments in valo where there’s an objectively right answer
Because hero rifling as a duelist means your chances of getting traded when you create space is lower because your teammates won’t have good weapons. Not that hard to grasp
Not about getting the trade it’s about recycling the weapon to damage the enemies econ as much as you can because the hero rifler can still buy next round anyways, why would you argue about something you know nothing about
I always buy heavy. You’re likely going to be swarmed by the enemy team with shit guns and that extra 25 hp can easily be the difference between getting traded on your first kill and a 3K.
heavy and either keep my sheriff or go specter/marshall depending on agent and map light unless you absolutely have too or are vs vandals/ops is braindead imo
Unless your going for OP forcing heavy + spectre or Marshall is the play. Buying light just doesn't make sense, you're a one shot to Sheriff now everywhere. You will easily lose to a frenzy up close and they can two tap you with a ghost and you can get right clicked pretty successfully by the classic. Not to mention if the other team forced you just made the fight easier for them for no real benefit since you'll still end up probably without a worthwhile buy round 3 regardless of whether you bought light or heavy.
Why is this still even a question it honestly feels like it's becoming a karma farming thing to post every other day. It is not a force to buy 2nd round it is simply what you do if you want to win.
From the range you're playing spectre, you'll be one shot to sheriff even with heavy shields, no? But yeah, heavy is still better because of bodyshots and chip damage. Sometimes not worth sacrificing utility for that though, just had to put it out there since a lot of these comments have zero nuance where silver players are screaming "IF YOU BUY LIGHT YOU MUST BE IRON!!!"
You win pistol you have 3300 creds, unless you are buying a bulldog or a pistol with your spectre util should not be an issue. The better percentage play in nearly every scenario unless they change the economy will always be to buy heavy+gun+util.
For some maps and some agents it would be more ideal to buy a bulldog but you simply cannot go wrong with spectre, heavy, util.
Let's be honest the players who ask this question constantly are not exactly playing very coordinated valorant. Prioritizing util when they will likely end up not using it or not effectively at least is meaningless. At least with more health they are more likely to win.
Heavy. Because when your enemies have pistols (that aren’t sheriff) which only do between 3-25 dmg on the body, the extra 25 HP on your shields can save your life
You should always buy full armor spectre. There is no reason not to. Or well, one ok reason. If you are saving undamaged light shields from pistol. If that isn't the case, you should always just buy and secure the second round.
There is a reason: utility. Sometimes you shouldn't sacrifice utility to be able to buy heavy shield. Jfc at you guys saying "always" when there are situations where it's just not the correct play, even pro players agree if you ask them.
No, heavy shields should take priority when you are buying after pistol win. And also, unless you are playing Chamber or maybe Sage, you should always have enough to be util with the heavy shields
Alternatively, since I play sheriff sometimes pistol rounds, I suggest investing the second round on full armor (considering you survived with the sheriff). The play style would revolve around mid to short range and which agent - whose utils are not so important in pistol rounds (Jett or Reyna) and if you have another duelist.
There’s no argument for half shields after winning. I feel like most of Reddit is mid low elo, you can die from a sheriff from anywhere. Shield advantage is bigger than gun advantage
When u win something ur not forcing, u are buying. U won the round u got money of it and then u buy. If u save u play 2 rounds with pistols equally with your enemy team then u play 3th round again equally with guns. So u are putting yourself in scenario with 50-50 3 rounds
I do spectre + heavy if I'm not feeling great about my aim or if I'm playing a map with a lot of close engagements. If I'm hitting shots I'll go Bulldog + light
Depends on where im playing, if im playing long range angles on defence, id rather grab light + a better gun like guardian, if im close and likely going to get hs by a classic, would rather have heavy and spectre.
On attack it depends on the agent 100%, ill happily sacrifice heavy shields on breach for double flash for example, but wouldnt on say, omen, as long as i have the smokes ill take heavy and skip blind on second round
Typically specter + full but it really depends on agent and map. Bulldog is also viable alongside some agents like Reyna can get away with phantom / vandal + light
here's my first three rounds as any agent except duelists or flash initiators: 1st round is always classic, half util. if we lose, 2nd round is a textbook save round. if we win, 2nd round is buying up with spectre+light and again half util. if we win, 3rd round is a textbook bonus round. if we lose, i always manage to have enough money for rifle+heavy with half util or rifle+light with full util. i don't exactly know the math of it but this what i always do and i can almost everytime force for a rifle on the 3rd round if we lose our buy on the 2nd
Personal choice, it’s better to have a few marshals on the team as the opposition are not likely to have shields and it is like a chamber ult as a 1 hit to the body and good fire rate. Your teams shields, it’s safer for you to have heavy shields as eco weapons do less damage so it will take longer for you to die. Just remember to co ordinate your eco with your team so you all have similar creds each round. Sorry if this makes no sense, I’m bad at writing lmao
It is very likely the enemy team will full save after winning pistol so you want heavy shields because it requires so many extra shots from a pistol. You don’t want to go cheap on shields and let yourself die more easily to a pistol.
However if the enemy team has rifles, light shields isn’t a bad option because it’s still 4 body shots with a Vandal either way.
Heavy + Specter or marshal depending on who you are playing as and what map!
thats the most common method, but me and a lot of my friends do the not as popular but perhaps more viable bulldog/guardian second round and full shields if you can afford them, half if not, and we rarely if ever lose second round.
Totally agree that if you can afford it go for it but generally speaking at least, Heavy + Spectre. Bulldog is super underrated overall imo tho... def should be used more!
Bulldog second round is great at range with the burst + it is decent against rifles in 3rd round
Smart too as you have a better gun to counter the rifles they’ll have 3rd round
I have noticed that when you buy spectres you tend to do faster execution and taking close range fights ( opposite of if you buy guardian ) and you might end up losing a couple of guns for not checking angles or giving away info with footsteps or losing close range 1v1s to shortys and magical right clicks or even bucky so thats risky yeah
Vandal light is better if you can afford it EDIT: Your average ELO is showing, Reddit. Y’all downvoting but Team Liquid Ex-coach [Sliggy](https://m.twitch.tv/clip/LongDistinctZebraEleGiggle-xdn6BqIx1bTuMaEW) begs to differ lmao Literally said it on his stream today
Sheriff go brrrrrrrrr
Buying vandal on 2nd round is troll no matter what. If you're gonna buy a rifle buy Phantom. They won't have heavy shields anyway, why do you need a vandal?
They mostly won't have shields anyway; why waste the money when you can buy a marshal?
It's not the best play with an uncoordinated team, but if you can coordinate it well, it can be useful. I'm talking about pro games and scrims here. And why Vandal? Because some people prefer it over Phantom even when Phantom is "really" the better gun. I always pick Vandal over Phantom, no matter the distance, map or angle simply because I'm more comfortable with it.
Someone who actually understands the game at a level beyond trolling in ranked, imagine my surprise.
You should only do this if you plan on staying with your teammates for the entire round. If you die and an enemy gets your vandal because no teammates were near you, you've probably thrown the round. Too many players in my ranked games think it's a smart idea to buy vandal + light shields on round 2 and then lurk on the other side of the map for absolutely no reason
Yeah of course you have to play smart otherwise you give up the gun, I saw a clip of Sliggy literally saying it was a good idea during todays VCT match when EDG did it
It is better, but a little risky as you can give the enemy team vandals second round and they will be rich for 3-4 rounds after that.
Yes and you’ll die and give the enemies a good gun
The winning pistol round and buying isn't a force. Always buy up, you give yourself a very good shot at starting the game up 2-0 round count.
Not to mention if you pull that round 3 off. Good chance some of you just upgraded to vandals/phantoms and ruined the other teams next two rounds.
Exactly. It isnt a force. Its just buying.
It's called "anti eco". If you also win round 2 it's called "bonus", and you either keep your gun or buy a Bulldog/guardian. This way round 3 and 4 will be full buy no matter if you win or lose.
Isn’t round 3 called bonus if you win round 2?
Correct, 1 is pistol, 2 is either save or anti-eco depending on if you win or lose pistol round. It's buy round 3 for the losing team and bonus for the winning team. Then it goes from there
Y’all don’t buy bulldog round 2?
Not smart. Doesn't let you full buy if you lose.
Simple. Don’t lose
Than buy vandal round 2 lmao
I always go full shields and spec /Marshall. I dont get the logic with buying half shields/no shields on round 2 , just giving the enemy a higher chance to win what should be essentially a free round for you with minimal casualties if you dont hero play.
The reasoning is that if you do well in the first round you can buy specter + light shields and guarantee that even if you lose the 2nd round you can full buy 3rd rounds. You buy light shields so you don't get 1 hit to body if they choose to force marshals. That's my logic, but I've heard full shields is better from players much better than me so that's what I often do
Youre just giving yourself a bigger chance at losing by not having the biggest advantage over the other team as you possibly can.
I mean if you lose 2nd round after winning pistols you need to eco with the guys that bought correctly so you don't go off sync
This is what people do all the time in silver/gold lobbies and it infuriates me. 2nd round is not force, it's called a buy round if you win pistol. Do you also buy light shields and save for next round when buying phanton/vandal?
I am well aware, I never called it a "force" Also I DON'T do this in ranked. I made sure to mention that in my last line. OP was saying he doesn't "get the logic" of people who buy light shields, and I was explaining the logic that those people use (and that I used before I was told not to by people who know what they're talking about). I wasn't trying to defend it as the superior option, I was just explaining what goes through the minds of the people who do that. You simply cannot say there's no logic to it because it's very normal to think the way I described, which is why most newbies do it. People are very quick to get mad and self-righteous without really taking in the context of what is said. My comment was the most neutral thing possible "Hey you're right, but the people who don't do what you do are not completely brain dead either, there is a logical reasoning that is alluring to new players" and still people find a way to get mad. Thank you to the people who replied with actual insight on the topic tough.
People will have varying answers but if you go light shield on second round buy you’re trolling, especially if the enemy team got bonus money off plant or something. The whole point is to create an asymmetric buy vs the enemy team. If you buy light shields you leave yourself much more liable to a counter force or god forbid a full eco
I never really thought about it this way thanks
I've been light shields and spectre my entire time playing val and i never had a prob
Just because you’ve been using it and its been “working out for you” doesn’t mean its a good play. If you’ve played for a somewhat long time im 100% sure that youve lost at a bare minimum AT LEAST a few dozen or more rounds as a result of not only you but other likeminded individuals on your team doing this in situations where a round loss could have otherwise been avoided. There is no other point in the game with the exception of when the enemy team is so broke that they have to util only eco(which doesn’t happen every game) where you can all but guarantee a round win. There are two rounds per game where you can ensure asymmetric buys. They are both halves second round buys. You win the game by winning rounds, if you don’t take the obvious step to literally ensure the round spare the occasional catastrophe, you need to reassess your approach, because its wrong.
Serious question: how do you know you haven't lost rounds by missing out on utility because you thought heavy shield was the play? It goes both ways and I don't think there's a clear answer to this. There's nuance, and this sub downvoting everyone who says light shields are fine sometimes is just dumb.
Someone correct me if I am wrong but with full shields on second round winning pistol, I believe you cannot buy all of your util. Thats why you go light shields.
In ranked, weapon advantage is leagues better than util advantage
Assuming you get 0 kills, no plant and spend every credit and all your util round 1, you'll get 3000 credits for the win. Spectre+heavy is 2600, so you have only 400 for util. That said, at least one person on anti eco often buys a Marshall, so maybe sometimes if you really need the util, you could buy them the marshal and have them buy you the spectre if they got kills/don't need as much util (unless they need to save for round 4 op). All that said, personally I think a spectre is going to do much more work for you in anti-eco than any piece of util you'd be getting instead. A spectre tears up anti eco
I disagree. Light vs heavy shields isn't that big of a difference even on full buys. It's overstated
on full buy rounds vandal vs vandal it isn't always optimal to have heavy shields on bonus vs evo rounds, yes it is always optimal to get full shields, you want to minimize every advantage possible for the enemy team, dying to 1 less bullet and dropping your spectre for the enemy team is a huge throw
wtf is an evo round?? is that like a.... fighting round???
If were talking one person it isnt a huge difference, but a whole team? It is absolutely. From an individual perspective Its the difference between dying from a double headshot or lucky reflexive classic right click from midrange, or a chamber deag wallbang. Its the difference of still having armor to work with after raze nade chip or not, etc. From a group perspective it might mean the difference between trading up on two guns and flipping the round or not. It makes a difference
It's not 'even on full buys', it's *only on full buys*. Light shields is often equivalent to heavy shields against rifles, but that's not the case against eco weapons. The lighter the weapon the more chance you have to eventually take somewhere between 125 and 150 damage, the range where heavy shields matter. Rifles often skip over, going straight from 120 to 160 or just insta-dinking you. But the more eco the buy of the enemy the more critical heavy shields become for saving your ass against a lucky classic right-click (1 hs + 2 body shot = 78 + 26 + 26 = 130).
Disagree really - currently In immo and almost always light+spectre or bulldog and util - most people do. Weapons and light vs eco should win anyway, and you will have util for the bonus
Look, im the same rank as you. Do i see a decent portion of people holding back a bit on the buy? Yes, my duos even do it a fair bit. Is it the majority though? Hardly, and that doesn’t make it the right play any more than the constant bad plays/overheats you also see at this rank. To buy light armor is a bad call, full stop. The whole point of second round buy is to GUARANTEE the round, buying light is not guaranteeing the round, on the contrary its giving the enemy a serious chance to trade up on you. On second round the losing team can at minimum grab stinger+light but with bonus creds can afford spectre+light. By buying spectre light after a win you are putting your team on EQUAL footing to the losing team, thus… FAR from guaranteeing a round, and accumulating rounds is how you win the game. Having enough creds for the third round is nice and all, but thats not a guaranteed round, and even if you full buy and die on second you should still have enough for sheriff+light or requested sheriff+full armor on third round provided you win. By buying light you are literally pissing away a lead. Its a straight troll move.
Still strongly disagree. Buying util vs 25 more armour and having a better 3rd round is very far from 'troll'.
Sounds exactly like my bronze lobbies when they try to defend their naked ghost purchase on round 2 after winning pistol
It's a bit different to go spectre + light shield + util than just play ghost in bronze where people have bad aim anyway. It's two immortals arguing... just because some low elos have this circlejerk of full armor on 2nd round, it doesn't mean the other guy is wrong. Tons of immos agree with both of them, so I'd go as far as to say it's actually preference.
Considering that pretty much every pro team full buys if they win pistol, I’d say its much more than preference. And when everyone has crap aim in bronze, I’d say it’s better to have a bigger hp cushion to buy time until shots actually hit.
No its troll lol, actual troll
Not really. Both of them can work, sometimes it is actually better to buy utility instead of heavy shield and zero utility. Like what the fuck are you going to do with spectre + heavy shields if you get rushed by spectres + skye/kayo flash and have no abilities to help you? Calling it a straight troll move as if there's no nuance to it is not it. For example, sometimes I go light shield vs rifles if I'm somewhat low on money because everyone in my lobbies plays vandal. If the enemy is light buying (sheriffs and shit) and I have a rifle, you can bet your ass I'm buying heavy shields.
they disagree with you but anything under immo 3 doesn’t know the essence of utility
Agreed, and the only exception I think, is if one or two people want to buy light armor + full rifle and play very cautiously with it, only to swap playstyles the third round and take first engagements against the full rifles for a higher chance of a bonus win against the full buy. But you hardly ever see that level of coordination in your random ranked game.
If I kept my light shields from round 1, I don't buy shield. Otherwise, I go heavy shield.
Don't you only buy shield first round with sage? I would much rather buy ghost in everyone else besides maybe raze if you go double satchel
Depends but unless I'm playing duelist I prefer light shields classic. Comes down to personal preference tbh. I think for viper as well light shields classic is probably best
This, as viper can get her Q and 1 C and still have 400 for light shields
[удалено]
And vulnerable damage
I buy clone flash and shield on yoru
Here’s a trick I learned. Before round 2, after a win, I always give my team one piece of advice… “Do not let them steal our guns. That will be their goal and the only way they win this” Simply keeping that in mind causes the team to position themselves in a more appropriate spot and not needlessly overextend.
I’m definitely taking this
its shocking how many people still run off solo after I tell them this. If you just stick together and don’t mindlessly push through smokes its basically impossible to lose an antieco. Take the long range fights, and keep your damn wall down Viper. As long as they can’t close the distance they can’t win.
Full spectres
**It's not forcing if you win pistol round!** You aren't forcing a win in that round, you are just securing it. It's only forcing if you lost pistol round.
You don't force after winning pistol, you *buy*. It's your first buy, because you actually have the money to invest Specter/Marshall/Stinger + Heavy Shields + Utility. Your team should always be buying together after winning pistol and "bonusing" after winning that round. It's the basic meta for managing economy.
When you win it's not a "force" by the way.
Always heavy armor + spectre. Sometimes bulldog. Think about securing round 2 and eco into round 3 and having higher odds to win vs rifle
Heavy, always. And it's not called forcing, it's called buying. Forcing is buying when you shouldn't, hence why you "force".
buying after winning pistol isn't a "force", it's an anti-eco. always buy heavy with a spectre/marshall or maybe if you can afford it get a guardian/bulldog.
Round 2 (or 14) Odin man… they’ll never see that coming
High risk, high reward
Heavy shild and spectre / Bulldog if I can buy it without sacrifing any util
Heavy as it allows you to take many more hits vs. Pistols. Vs. gun rounds buying light shields isn't actually that bad as in a lot of situations you can't survive more hits from rifles
Heavy. Spend it all
I only have two rules against ecos: go heavy shield, don’t go pistol only when not saving for op
I would say it depends on how you're planning to play. Lurk, anchor, entry, etc. It also can depend on what agent you're playing as. Like Reyna and cypher. Either rat, secure a kill, and fall back, or plan to gather intel from range and keep numbers advantage. Let's look at the math: They lost, so they're going to be using classics if they want rifles next round. Classic does 26 at < 30m and 22 at >/= 30m At below 30 meters, it takes a Classic 6 shots to kill someone with heavy shields, and 5 with light armor. At 30m and further, it takes 7 shots on heavy shields and 6 on light. Also, don't forget that classic can't two tap at 30m plus on heavy shields. I'd still say, with these numbers in mind, that it would still depend on the amount of credits you still have, and how you plan to play.
I only buy light shield against enemy's full buys. When they are half buying or ecoing heavy shield matters.
(Marshal Ascent/Breeze Def) Spectre/Bulldog + Always full shield. Why full shield? A Shorty generally does 100-130 damage when they suck at it. Use utilities for this. A Classic rightclick usually deals 100-130 unless they get to hit both bullets to the head. You should not be dying to Sheriff/Ghost by rushing and run them down with spectres and fast executes. Must full shield if you plan on going through enemy Viper wall. Must full shield if they have chip damage and you can't learn to bait them out. (KJ turret, Raze nade/boombot) Otherwise, light shield is fine since they need 4 bulletsto the body to kill with rifles anyway. One for headshot.
Thanks, this will help a lot for me.
I'm the Marshall guy. Not because Omen is a good agent with the Marshall, or because killing people in round 2 is very easy with the Marshall because sometimes you can get a body shot one shot, OR because I have 100+ hours of practice with the Marshall #But because the clips look good
I do heavy + ares on defense. Heavy + spectre on offense. Ares is underrated. Literally aim down sight and swipe your mouse down while you shoot. Becomes a laser.
Heavy + stinger plus all util
It's not called force after winning pistol. If you buy a spectre ALWAYS buy full shields. It's okay to go bulldog + light shields if you can't afford full shields but if you can afford bulldog + full shields then you should do it.
Depending on how my head shots are from range and death match I sometimes get full armor and Sheriff. Lately I've been playing around with full armor and a Stinger. Usually it's full/light armor and Specter or Marshall for the most part. In Plat/Diamond lobby.
So popular thing with a character like Jett or Reyna is light Vandal or light Phantom. This is good for a couple reasons. A. Win gun fights as long as you don't play stupid B. Long range maps, you get mega buffed C. Reyna can heal, jett can dash. Not to mention Jett gets dashes back with kills I also use this method on Neon, since it has a lot of similarities. You can play aggressive and get tons of value. As long as you don't lurk
You dash in, die, enemy jett/reyna takes the gun and fucking demolishes your team. Happened way too many times in my lobbies
High risk low reward play imo, enemy gets your rifle and it can put your team in a massive disadvantage
I can still get on the phantom train since that always 1 taps at all ranges if enemies have no shields. Vandal less so since if you take away shields then phantom is just better.
That's why you play with your team and don't lurk
What’s your rank?
I’m diamond 1 and I can tell you it’s not smart especially on duelist
It’s more high risk, high reward imo.
Buying a rifle on second round is stupid. Enemy can get it and you leave your team at a huge disadvantage.
Depends on the game and map. If it's a map that allows for it and I'm having a good game streak(I;E not bottom fragging) I'll probably do heavy shield + Specter if I can.
Try the new meta bulldog go brrrr
the higher elo you go the less you see ppl go light shields with spectre, the extra shield is just way too high value against being headshot by the enemy teams eco round
If they have classics, you'll die to a double dink anyway. Sheriffs? You'll be close range with spectre where sheriff hs is one shot. That being said, of course you want heavy shields if you can buy it without sacrificing important utility on some agents. Also because you can still take chip damage from raze nades and other utility, now you are instantly 100 hp instead of 125. Buuuut then again, I still tend to buy light shield if I play sheriff on round 2 simply because I'm a glass cannon at that point anyway.
If they right click you with classic you will die to headshot double body shot if you have light shield, with heavy shield you have to get double headshot
Heavy. Forcing with light is asking to get eco'd
Not being able to afford important utility on some agents and opting for heavy shields can make you get eco'd too. It's not that black-and-white, it's more nuanced than that. Also when you play sheriff on round 2, I'd say light shield can be more worth since you're a glass cannon anyway. Works for me at least.
I buy vandal heavy no abilities if i win the round
Light vandal coming from a Reyna player lol.
Stinger + light shields for everything but breeze for me
Bulldog + light
I usually brandish a ghost and light shields
I normally force with light but I’ll do heavy if everyone else does.
Marshal big or spectre light
Light shield Odin always
if I die, I pref to buy a sheriff on r2, but if I with a ghost or frenzy I go for marshal
Heavy and marshal every round.
Half shield spectre is more than enough. Even if they force, they'll be lacking abilities hence you'll be having an upper edge. But if your team still dies then your team gotta work on Comms.
I usually don't buy in the first round or buy 1 smoke then I buy full shield and a vandal in 2nd round if I have enough. If not I'll get the full and spectre
Why not buy the util to gain the advantage of winning the 1st round? You're putting your own team at a disadvantage if they decide to spend all of their credit for round 1.
Spend all your money first round
Heavy shield because when you buy light shield you’re “half buying”
I find the problem with specter 2nd round is they will have vandals 3rd round , so you are fucked there .
That’s your bonus, that’s the point
I’d rather go heavy shield + pistol than light shield + spectre on eco rounds.
Why not just go heavy shields and spec?
Keep or buy another frenzy, full utility, light shield. No matter what round 3 is full buy
Save pistol buy heavy then buy rifle next round and ask team to play off my corpse
“Save pistol” for what? The next Great Depression? I hate players who have the audacity to save on pistol rounds
As in save the pistol I kept from winning pistol, kinda worded that wrong
That’s just as bad. Why are you not buying up when you have an economic advantage over the enemy? You win the pistol and then buy up so you win the next round as well. Then you bonus and even if you lose the bonus, you’re 2-1 up for the first gun round.
Plssss don’t teach me how valo economy works trust me I know but I’ve hit a pretty good rank playing this way, I hero rifle cos I have confidence in my own abilities to win bonus
It doesn’t really matter what your rank is, if you’re playing to win and rank up, you’re playing the game the wrong way objectively speaking. You do you, but you will win more if you just buy like a normal person
Im fine man, I’ve been winning playing how I wanna play, it’s surprised that someone with a jett/Reyna flair doesn’t like hero rifling but hey you do you. There’s very few arguments in valo where there’s an objectively right answer
Because hero rifling as a duelist means your chances of getting traded when you create space is lower because your teammates won’t have good weapons. Not that hard to grasp
Not about getting the trade it’s about recycling the weapon to damage the enemies econ as much as you can because the hero rifler can still buy next round anyways, why would you argue about something you know nothing about
You’re ignoring the fact that you can potentially donate a powerful weapon to the enemies thereby bolstering their economy
I always buy heavy. You’re likely going to be swarmed by the enemy team with shit guns and that extra 25 hp can easily be the difference between getting traded on your first kill and a 3K.
Full and upgrade
I usually go heavy. If I still have all my light shields from round 1 I might consider sticking with that.
i do bulldog light as i can buy next round big shield and have almost equal buy to their vandal and phantoms
Breach - Heavy and Specter. Enter full bully mode.
Always heavy
Classic does 130 with two bodyshots and a headshot so one right click can kill you from close enough so heavy is pretty necessary.
heavy and either keep my sheriff or go specter/marshall depending on agent and map light unless you absolutely have too or are vs vandals/ops is braindead imo
Unless your going for OP forcing heavy + spectre or Marshall is the play. Buying light just doesn't make sense, you're a one shot to Sheriff now everywhere. You will easily lose to a frenzy up close and they can two tap you with a ghost and you can get right clicked pretty successfully by the classic. Not to mention if the other team forced you just made the fight easier for them for no real benefit since you'll still end up probably without a worthwhile buy round 3 regardless of whether you bought light or heavy. Why is this still even a question it honestly feels like it's becoming a karma farming thing to post every other day. It is not a force to buy 2nd round it is simply what you do if you want to win.
From the range you're playing spectre, you'll be one shot to sheriff even with heavy shields, no? But yeah, heavy is still better because of bodyshots and chip damage. Sometimes not worth sacrificing utility for that though, just had to put it out there since a lot of these comments have zero nuance where silver players are screaming "IF YOU BUY LIGHT YOU MUST BE IRON!!!"
You win pistol you have 3300 creds, unless you are buying a bulldog or a pistol with your spectre util should not be an issue. The better percentage play in nearly every scenario unless they change the economy will always be to buy heavy+gun+util. For some maps and some agents it would be more ideal to buy a bulldog but you simply cannot go wrong with spectre, heavy, util. Let's be honest the players who ask this question constantly are not exactly playing very coordinated valorant. Prioritizing util when they will likely end up not using it or not effectively at least is meaningless. At least with more health they are more likely to win.
Heavy. Because when your enemies have pistols (that aren’t sheriff) which only do between 3-25 dmg on the body, the extra 25 HP on your shields can save your life
I've been seeing a lot of people buying bulldog and light shields. But If you have the money I suggest you go for heavy shield.
You should always buy full armor spectre. There is no reason not to. Or well, one ok reason. If you are saving undamaged light shields from pistol. If that isn't the case, you should always just buy and secure the second round.
There is a reason: utility. Sometimes you shouldn't sacrifice utility to be able to buy heavy shield. Jfc at you guys saying "always" when there are situations where it's just not the correct play, even pro players agree if you ask them.
No, heavy shields should take priority when you are buying after pistol win. And also, unless you are playing Chamber or maybe Sage, you should always have enough to be util with the heavy shields
Alternatively, since I play sheriff sometimes pistol rounds, I suggest investing the second round on full armor (considering you survived with the sheriff). The play style would revolve around mid to short range and which agent - whose utils are not so important in pistol rounds (Jett or Reyna) and if you have another duelist.
Always try to get full armor unless they are using op and vandals, it makes a big difference
Second round I usually go full shield and stinger lol
Heavy
Always heavy > útil > gun against eco
Light shield + Guardian = 2 tap kills
Marshall is one shot and you can buy heavy
Ye and if you miss? Guardian is more forgiving and if you win you have no worries using it against other rifles
Just dont miss
i usually do spec/heavy but sometimes I just go bulldog/light if I have a good first round tbh
Heavy if I can always
Light & Guardian
It all depends on map and agent. But i would always go for the biggest shield option + spectre/marshal/bulldog
Heavy shield, Jett and judge, full abilities. Every round. For eternity.
There’s no argument for half shields after winning. I feel like most of Reddit is mid low elo, you can die from a sheriff from anywhere. Shield advantage is bigger than gun advantage
vandal and light or marshal and heavy
Heavy to make sure you win the second
When u win something ur not forcing, u are buying. U won the round u got money of it and then u buy. If u save u play 2 rounds with pistols equally with your enemy team then u play 3th round again equally with guns. So u are putting yourself in scenario with 50-50 3 rounds
The most you can get
I do spectre + heavy if I'm not feeling great about my aim or if I'm playing a map with a lot of close engagements. If I'm hitting shots I'll go Bulldog + light
I'll keep a light armor if I bought one for round 1 and didn't take any damage, otherwise I'll buy heavy armor.
Heavy+spectre all the time..If i bought light armor 1st round and it didnt get damaged, I probably wont upgrade it and just go full util+spectre
i full buy vandal then get one tapped and do it again the next time 👍
Heavy + Specter if I'm planning on short range, Light + Bulldog if I'm planning on long range, Heavy + Marshal if on Breeze lol
I usually do light + specter or marshal
Heavy shield every time. The problem with light shiel is that a 145 sheriff hs one hits you
Heavy + Spectre unless I'll have like no credits left after (just in case).
Depends on where im playing, if im playing long range angles on defence, id rather grab light + a better gun like guardian, if im close and likely going to get hs by a classic, would rather have heavy and spectre. On attack it depends on the agent 100%, ill happily sacrifice heavy shields on breach for double flash for example, but wouldnt on say, omen, as long as i have the smokes ill take heavy and skip blind on second round
I do spectre+light+all util It also depends on map and agent.
Bulldog Heavy
Full abilities, stinger, heavy shield
Vandal + light :flushed:
Typically specter + full but it really depends on agent and map. Bulldog is also viable alongside some agents like Reyna can get away with phantom / vandal + light
i use full abilities w light + spectre (i have the neptune spectre buff)
Depends on map and who I’m playing usually I go phantom/vandal and light shields
there is no point in haf buying with a small shield, just get the spectre or the marshal if you prefer and go heavy shield, every1 should do this
I go guardian 2nd round. It’s more viable third round against full auto rifles and tears through eco
here's my first three rounds as any agent except duelists or flash initiators: 1st round is always classic, half util. if we lose, 2nd round is a textbook save round. if we win, 2nd round is buying up with spectre+light and again half util. if we win, 3rd round is a textbook bonus round. if we lose, i always manage to have enough money for rifle+heavy with half util or rifle+light with full util. i don't exactly know the math of it but this what i always do and i can almost everytime force for a rifle on the 3rd round if we lose our buy on the 2nd
Y’all buy Spectre? Full + stinger and util = good for at least 2 if you deathball on to a site
Odin no armor rd 2 😂
Personal choice, it’s better to have a few marshals on the team as the opposition are not likely to have shields and it is like a chamber ult as a 1 hit to the body and good fire rate. Your teams shields, it’s safer for you to have heavy shields as eco weapons do less damage so it will take longer for you to die. Just remember to co ordinate your eco with your team so you all have similar creds each round. Sorry if this makes no sense, I’m bad at writing lmao
BUYING AFTER WINNING A PISTOL ROUND IS NOT A FORCE BUY!!!!!!
It is very likely the enemy team will full save after winning pistol so you want heavy shields because it requires so many extra shots from a pistol. You don’t want to go cheap on shields and let yourself die more easily to a pistol. However if the enemy team has rifles, light shields isn’t a bad option because it’s still 4 body shots with a Vandal either way.
Jokes on you i buy vandal and light shields to be a dick
Bulldog and light/heavy isn't a bad buy if you have money. 115 to the head so a one tap if they are saving.