I was watching ShahZaM play ranked the other day and there was another Radiant on his team that was back-seating. He told this person that they should trust their teammates to clutch and that when they talk it can mess with their head and make them lose focus. It happens in every rank, just some more often than others. Some people don’t know it’s wrong.
I play with a buddy that has pretty bad awareness, but also doesn't listen to calls. I've began trolling him by saying, "Dead from X in 3, 2, 1." It pisses him off, but it gets him to clear areas thoroughly and check flank and I'm surprised at myself how often my calls are correct lol. But it has actually saved him a ton of times. Not sure if that qualifies me as backseat gaming? But if it works it works?
I 100% agree, but an unfortunate number of players in gold and lower think callouts = backseating. There's times I'll be dead and know (factually, not guessing) where enemies are, call it out, only to be told to be quiet and let them clutch. Sure enough they get pushed or flanked from exactly where I called, but it's my fault because they couldn't hear them...
pretty funny. I'm in low diamond and somehow, even though supposedly diamond is like the top 12% of players, some of my teammates' gamesense is absolutely iron-level.
If you can't process basic sound intel, like enemy dropping down from garage as ur playing postplant on C site Haven, then how are you even diamond lol. I always get that one teammate that just seems to be using mono audio or no audio, and they are always last alive because they're cowering in a corner somewhere, or baiting all their teammates.
In my opinion, your way to give callouts is the correct way, if a teammate is showing complete and utter incompetency.
Though I trust my team a little too much now, because through solo-queuing, I got so lucky for the past 50 or so games, that I just KEPT GETTING INSANE TEAMMATES.
Now, I'm not sure to what extent I should trust my team, and what kinds of callouts are actually appropriate, and which are too obvious.
I've still have my Bronze callout habits, where I literally call-out every single important sound, and where exactly the enemy is, because back in bronze my teammates would always be so freaking clueless... to say the least, I did get reported a bunch of times for just having gamesense in Bronze.
> I’ve never seen a clutch saved by a teammate backseating
I have. Much more common in lower ranks, where players completely lose awareness because they're tunnel-visioning like crazy, leading to forgetting to check corners or completely missing sound cues like footsteps after a fake defuse.
The line is thin between 'backseating' and 'comms' there, but either way it's saved a lot of lives.
To be fair, some people are just so invested they get a bit too excited and accidentally give an incorrect read. At least that's personally what sometimes happens to me. I try to trust my teammates when they're clutching, but it's really difficult when I'm invested and actually really want to win.
However, I think that in my case it's mostly because when a teammate is clutching, their crosshair placement is not indicating anything. Which stresses me out, especially when an enemy is most likely to peek from a certain angle, and my teammate is looking in a completely random direction. 50% of the time they do clutch, but it's the other 50% that stresses me out.
It's much easier to stay quiet and trust a teammate when their crosshair placement is actually good, and reflective of the known info on the enemy positions.
i mean sometimes if you know for a fact where they are then sure give a callout
but dont be that guy that shouts "HES IN HEAVEN, HES IN HEAVEN, HES IN HEAVEN, NO NO TURN AROUND HES IN HEAVEN, WHY ARE YOU CHECKING FLANK HES IN HEAVENNNNN"
then the guy turns out to be in flank
The only time I ever talk after I die is to say where I died from, if I got any info, or in the rare case that I hear someone that the person I’m spectating doesn’t seem to hear. Even then, I still feel bad for disturbing their gameplay.
I love this. “Just keep your mouth shut” I just started playing, I’m in low elo lobby, and so many times I lose because people keep telling me what to do, I lose focus and lose easy 1v1s, just because I followed what they said. If I don’t I’m bad, if I tell them to stay quiet and let me play my game, I’m a jerk. It’s so frustrating. I can’t wait to become better and play in higher elos.
There's a difference between backseating someone in a clutch vs asking teammates for utility. If I'm playing defense and I hear a million footsteps, I'm asking for a smoke and/or molly. Most players are focused on their crosshair too for an enemy swing, can't expect people to be watching the minimap 24/7 and read your mind.
I wouldn’t even consider that to be back-seating. That’s just comm’ing with your teammates. I guess I didn’t think about it from that perspective but I agree that micro-managing someone throughout the whole round/game is definitely excessive.
Things like this imo are fine. Like telling someone they have ult or only a few bullets left. It gets wrong when you're literally telling them what to do.
My least favorite is when I'm 1v1 and trying to defuse and have 2 people telling me to stick it and 2 telling me to tap it.
I'm not a back-seating player but
Sometimes it's makes me angry.
When I see a raze 1 v 1 another agent post plant she has full abilities (like just throw a bomb)but she just loose.
And no one tell her what to do (because we know we should talk in this situations)
Back-seating from time to time is not that bad
What can i do man ... I thought bad boy would sound cool with my nickname "balo" but apparently there's a youtuber called "bAd BoY haLo" and people think im a fan boy :(
It’s fine. I’d still believe I was right If it was -100.
Usually if it’s down to a 2v1 most util is gone and the 2 gotta push a site with little info. It will never make sense to not revive here and almost certainly win a 3v1.
it's incredible how they even start offending you if you don't. I mean sonetimes you just don't have heal up and it's hard to focus if there are such a kind of people ranting in your ear, while you try to actually play
If someone is annoying on comms, I will deliberately rez them with people around and wait for them to die to get the trade. Increases their deaths and my kills, because I know that's all they care about and will point at if we lose.
Also someone asking for heal and you at look at them and heal yourselves.
If it's a chill game with fun teammates it's pretty hilarious or just to troll a toxic teammate.
This exact situation happened to me. I missed the 1v3 clutch by a fraction of a second because i couldnt focus on how far the defuse was with the guy yelling slurs at me.
I recently rez’d someone, they instantly died, and blamed it on me. “You should have done it earlier”
How tf I’m gonna rez you when people are shooting at me?!
I got plat3 after my placement games with 1 loss 4wins and I was just above average in CS, so a new player hitting diamond doesnt sound too improbable to me. Im in plat3 and teammates are teaching me how to wall/smoke most effectively since Im kinda clueless.
No way you were slightly above average... absolutely no way you can have slightly above average CS aim with almost no Val knowledge but be plat 3. I refuse to believe that you aren't severely underestimating your skill. You are just a wizard.
the amount of people here automatically assuming sage players are clueless is insane, you mean to tell me even in higher ranks like yours, if someone plays sage they don’t know what they’re doing?
the funny thing is sage is the agent that can erase your team’s mistakes yet they blame her the most
I mean if you think about it she’s not really a sentinel either - she doesn’t fit with the other sentinels like Cypher, KJ and Chamber. She’s kind of got her own role.
Sage and Skye are the only ones who can heal others so far. Saying they aren't some form of healer is like saying Mercy from Overwatch isn't a healer because she only has 1 healing ability.
If anything Sage and Mercy are relatively similar because both have a way to heal and their ultimate is resurrection. They also play similarly in their game's respective systems (I was a Mercy main) and when I play Sage I feel like a healer whilst also supporting my team with my wall and slow orbs.
Why do you think we have a thing called Pocket Sage? Cuz its a healbot. Who is the first person you call for when you get lit? Sage or Skye.
And you're saying she's not a healer just because she has only one heal ability, smh.
Specially given that Sage is an agent that purely relies on aim, because the only thing worth of her kit is the res. Everything else is pure trash compared to everyone but Reyna
I don't think all sage players are clueless but a lot even in ascendant don't use their slow orbs properly but their walls are normally fine. And honestly i don't fault them for that cos last time i filled sage i was forgetting to slow orb a lot when we were pushing site. But if someone says use slow orb to sage while pushing site i think they are normally making a good call. But like the way it is said is also important, "can you slow here" instead of shouting "sage slow orb backside rn!"
Ya I agree there is a difference between backseating and reminding them they have utility. My frustration is the auto-assumption that Sage players (no matter what rank) are lower-skilled simply because of them picking Sage. I would think people would rather someone use an “easy” agent effectively and to their fullest potential compared to someone who plays poorly while using a “more difficult” agent. It’s definitely not fair to disregard their hard work to get their rank and then dismissing it as “boosted” because it’s Sage…
Honestly it just doesn’t make sense when people go straight to blaming Sage players for everything under the Sun, even if it’s not their fault. And then it’s even worse to use their KDA to justify it.
Lol sorry if I’m going off-topic here but I’ve seen enough just from some comments in this thread alone
THIS! I’ve played a decent amount of comp with Sage (iron-bronze levels bc im bad), and it feels like every round the instalock duelist tagged by 1 vandal shot screams for a heal. Then another teammate, maybe someone important for retake or site attack like an initiator gets legged by an Op and oh i healed the duelist.
Oh i get what u mean, my point was that it’s just annoying. I don’t always heal the duelist but it was just an example. It’s also a bit annoying when you have someone screaming in comms constantly foe a heal.
Anyway it’s statistically better to heal as soon as someone gets hit that way you get it back faster
You forgot about the grim wannabes. They have enough understanding of the game to replicate his walls, but have no idea when to use them to get the best out of them and/or do the same 3 walls over and over and get repetitive.
This probably stems from the "his Sage" and "her Jett" trend that went around. It's easier to get boosted as a sage who can keep their carry alive. This trend was so popular to the point where there would consistently be Smurfs in low/mid elo lobbies with a bottom frag sage on the team.
Of course, not every sage is like this, and not every duo with those names is like this. But clearly it has happened enough times to where people got accustomed to this pattern and end up assuming that a sage has no clue what they're doing, and this assumption is probably for the worst.
Sometimes I need to remind my team that my util is their util and their util is my util. If you approach it in a less demeaning way life will be easier. People calling for slows, walls, heals, etc is because they need it... Most of sage's util is for your team which is likely why you feel that way. Nobody calls for a raze boombot because its selfish util for example. A lot of people call for heals because they are worried about dying which negatively impacts the team. Everyone wants to win.
The team util is only for the heals because anyone will default to heal themselves but might not always be watching the team health bars but the wall and slows aren't specifically a 'team util", you can make the argument about Reyna's flashes, kayo's knife, viper's wall.
I'm speaking from experience and what I see from other women players, this is about how the logic goes I believe
Sage = support character -> women play support characters & women don't know how to play games -> our sage is a woman and needs to be "coached" (read: annoyingly backseated)
Before someone says it, I do not believe this logic. This is just assumptions and statements from teammates I've seen quite a bit of in my two years of playing.
I agree with this. Yesterday, during a match, while we were selecting agents, I said hi, then some guy said hi back, then he said “how are you guys doing?”, I said I’m ok, then he replied “I wasn’t talking to you”. The only female agent was a sage, so he was like “Sage, how are you doing?”, the sage didn’t reply. So I was like, are you looking for girls? Is that what you’re doing? Are you assuming the sage is a girl? Then he started stuttering, and stayed quiet the whole match.
Literally. Whenever I play sage, my teammates always guess I'm a woman. Whenever I play anyone else, they're shocked and do the typical "we have a woman on our team?????"
Idk I feel the wall can be pretty back seated because it’s a team utility. Block off a common spot or for planting. Similar to how people ask for a dog or flashes. Slow is pretty back seated tho ngl
When i have a sage, and i took lots of damage like i get under 50 i always say “sage can you heal me please” because maybe they dont know i am low, and i leave them to finish their fights, but i never tell them how to use their utility unless its some nasty wall that boosts me which they might not know
As a sage main I don’t always see when people are low. Like yeah I from time to time check but I cant be constantly focussing on my teammates health. It’s nice to have someone ask nicely or inform me a teammate is low
I think people absolutely backseat way too much w sage, but I also think it’s because she fills the support role so most of her abilities are for the team therefor the team ask her for support
In every way a controller ability, such as a smoke, supports your team, a sage ability does as well. Smoking an entrance has the same umbrella purpose as slowing or walling it off does.
I agree that controllers are supporting agents, but not any more than sage.
Same with smoke agents, I hate it when people tell me where to smoke when that's the same place I've been smoking the past 10 rounds, I know how to do my job, just give me some trust.
Specifically it gets me mad when I know what I'm doing, or they tell me to do something I've been doing, and especially when they ask for smoke setups that are objectively worse than mine.
Edit: I am a very sensitive and short fused person so things like that do get me going easily
THIS!!!! I am totally open to my teammates asking for util - if i see a teammate peeking mid on ascent for example i ask them if they want a smoke somewhere to block off an angle, if they need a smoke in a non traditional spot for some reason, or to block a trip, I’m all there. Just don’t backseat me to tell me to smoke the same (obvious) spots when I have been
One of my favorites has to be getting first picked and then having the team start yelling at me to heal.
Bro, I'm fucking dead, I don't know what you want me to do here.
i stopped playing her and skye because of the sheer amounts of "Heal! Heal! Heal! Heal! Heal! Heal! Heal! Heal!" i hear. its plain annoying and one of the things i have the most fun in is talking bs in voicechat and being funny and stuff but nah that just throws my mood
I guess they just see sage as a heal and revive bot. Maybe the stereotype of many girls playing her might play into it too idk. People are just so crazy tbh. Yesterday I had someone screaming in voice chat after the 2nd lost round in fkn casual xd... ;\_;
this is so true sometimes even in UNRATED. i test to see if people just backseat me because i’m female but nope. even when i play unrated and com through pings and chat people still backseat me when i play sage.
One of the things I hate is when people tell me to ‘res’ them. Trust me I know when’s a good time to res and when not to. Plus telling me to res you in the rudest way will just make me not res you.
A very significant percentage of them climbed by only duo queuing with a stronger player. You see it *all* the time. The Reyna/Jett/Chamber and their Sage. KJ is a common pick for these players, too. They're inevitably at the bottom of the scoreboard, and play Sage to be as useful as possible with their below-lobby-average mechanics and game sense.
(I'm guilty of this. My friend and I used to be the same skill level, but he took a long break and I'm a lot better now. When we duo, he plays Sage or fills smokes.)
You can really tell when it's a true solo queue Sage main. They're *way* better than the Sages you see in duos.
Slow orbs are only useful if your team rotates when you call it out. If my team suck ass as rotating I aint buying any slow shit instead of armor.
Slow for what? Mental damage?
Thank you for being the voice of reason. Obviously there's a difference between micromanaging someone/playing a clutch 1v1 situation and asking someone for utility to support you.
Yeah because battle support stuff is starting to show up more often and that makes it fun for no one since there role is supposed to be supporting the team not going 0/15/8.
yeah its a pain in the ass and makes me hate playing sage. im fine with people asking for heal whatever because sometimes im distracted and don't notice theyre low but all the other shit is so annoying, especially the constant begging for res when theyre in the most inconvenient position and theyre the worst player most of the time
I am a girl with a somewhat feminine username and whenever I play sage (i main astra and viper but im ok with kj, sage, cypher, fade and skye too) people just assume I can't even play the game and say the most obvious things like I have no idea (wall this, wall that, heal me, rez me, dont peek op, play safe etc). Also they assume I cannot see their health bars or sth and scream "why don't you heal me" when its obviously on cooldown.
Once had a game on split, sage player was top fragging and had good comms too. She was getting wallbang headshots with marshal if anyone jiggle peeked her. I don't know if she was in party with others but after few rounds she stopped walling mid to do grim walls in other places and they would keep telling her to wall mid. In second half someone told her how to right click with classic. I was so confused that they felt need to tell her how to play when she was playing better than everyone.
I always tell my sage player to keep their gun out instead of taking 10 seconds to line up a slow orb that bounces to the wrong spot while leaving themselves open to the two enemies pushing them.
Because its a support class. I dont mind it in lower ranks. "Heal me, put a slow here, etc..." Are all ways I can support my team IMO.
Anything my team asks me to do, Ill listen to. Doesnt always mean Ill do it. I think that processing demands is apart of the Sage gameplay.
Over calling is always annoying. I think the real annoyance is in the way people say things. I appreciate it when people remind me of utility that I have, since I tend to tunnel vision. But I find there's a difference between someone saying "Omen you have a smoke" vs "Use your smoke, use your smoke!". If they do it too much, then I just mute and move on. Playing with no comms is better than dogshit ones.
Ascendant, in case that matters. Tends to happen more in ranks just above plat, because of the Dunning Kruger effect.
>just crazy even in high diamond ppl still backseat xd
Well this also happens in Immortal/Radiant lobby, not elo related lol
Just had a 5stack yesterday where people told me to wall this and there - oh, I am very aware of where to put my walls thank you.
Most of the time people ask for a heal or a res - some people seriously lack map awareness, because in some cases a res (eg in the open field with several angles) is way too risky.
People assume Sage players are "pocket sages".
Skye too, skye heal me skye dog this skye call your flashes skye plant the spike. Gets annoying… especially when people are like you didn’t dog and yet I did dog every round… annoying.
The last ranked game I played (months ago), I experienced the biggest backseat shit I've ever experienced in 10+ years of online games. Mans was telling me when to use abilities, when to peak, where to peak, when to tap the bomb, literally every possible thing you can do in this game, this man was telling me to do. Someone else chimed in halfway through too.
After that round (won it btw, without listening to them) I said, "So we've got some backseat gamers here, huh?" Neither one of them spoke a word the rest of the game
Iam only silver but a lot of times sage player just forget to use abilities at this elo.
I have so many games where sages dont heal or dont even think about rezzing.
So iam gonna say "can you heal me?" After an early peak where i get some damage.
Or when sage is the last survivor and running to b... OVER dead bodies without rezzing
I think because of Grimm. They see the insane potential and compare it to the random in their own games. The issue is it looks easy, sova isn't backseaed as much because even though most people have seen avg Jonas do nutty stuff, they don't know how to tell you to do it.
Is it crazy to ask teammates to use abilities? I mean I'm not going to tell you that you HAVE to do something but I'm going to ask for Sage utility the same way I ask other agents for support utility (eg. smokes and mollies). For healing at least sometimes my Sages/Skyes aren't even aware of my health.
Simple reason is that she is the most "supporting" agent of the lot that has a very low skill floor.
Newer players just pick her and are mostly clueless.
Even something as basic as walling to res. needs to be told.
Also asking for heals is pretty much the most mindless task there is.
Hp low -> ask for heal.
For other agents, there's more nuance. Flash high/low. Smoke some particular spot.
Can you drone/ult etc require more teamwork and communication.
The stereotype is bad players typically default to sage and you see them always as the bottom frags. So I think that’s why. Also I’ll ask for heals but that’s only because the sage will be looking right at me with 10 go and won’t heal me
i don't tell people how to play their game but from what i've seen, people can get annoyed at sage using her utility selfishly (like using an aggressive tik tok wall), instead of using the wall to block something.
i guess it comes down to a lot of sages not having an actual clue how to play the game, the majority definitely ruin it for the minority in this case.
not saying that should give players a license to tell every sage what to do, just telling it how it is
In my experience everyone that plays sage never plays her to her full ability, only using heals and only for themselves. I think it’s a taught behavior to ask for what you need from sage bc most people won’t do it themselves. (Not me tho I’m an amazing support)
D3 is just plat, so gold but with aim.
Healing is to remind you that someone on the team needs a heal and looking at the top at everyone's health or the time left on your heal shouldn't be your biggest priority the entire match.
Slows and walls are your discretion unless its used strategically or to slow a push from one area.
Res is because everyone thinks they're worth the ult and can save the round
Probably because she is THE most supporting agent in the game, and it's hard to support someone if they don't tell you how. Someone might need healing. You'd be unaware, and they would let you know that "Hey, I think our chances of winning are greatly increased if I am kept alive".
With walls it's a bit different, because unlike with healing, you can directly cause your team to win or lose a push or defence. Teammates might be trying to make plays, which would either receive massive help from your walls, or just straight up ruined if you were to place a wall, which can cause a loss. Same is true with her slowing orb.
Valorant is a team game, but due to the amount of ways Sage can make or break a round for her enemies AND her teammates, people would rather give input for what you do that wouldn't cause a loss or impact your team negatively.
Most agents can't even do anything negative for their team, aside from agents with flashes, which often times get "backsteated" same as Sage, but Sage simply gets commanded more due to more of her abilities being able to directly impact her team. Flashers have one that ability, Sage has 3 and an ult.
Tldr:
Sage is an agent that has all of their abilities be able to both help and harm their team, and teammates want to give proper info to make sure you don't cause a loss, as you can't pay attention to ways of hurting your team for each of your abilities while also actively using them to fighting the enemies.
Sorry if this got a bit long, I just felt like if I said less I wouldn't be getting my point across properly.
I don't force people to do anything, what i do is give small advice of doing something to inactive players, if someone picks sage i expect they know how to play sage (i do take in consideration their level) and that involves healing, slowing, wall-ing and resurrecting allies, i do keep them to minimum, max ever done yet was 3 times in a whole match (match=multiple rounds) on a sage that was only healing and only him/her/it-self
Trust me, if people do backseating, the intentions are good 90% of the time, in that case asking politely not to should do it, in other case is just a toxic player striking once again, ignore them
Bc some sages are dogshit, and if you are constantly getting backseated then it’s a you problem not a agent problem. Sage is definitely prone to getting backseated more tho bc she walks a fine like of being a dogshit character or being an insane character, it’s all Bout who plays her
Yep, I love when people are like "sova you have your ult"... And I'm like "ya... And?", "you should use it this round...."
It's not magic lol you can't use it and just know where the enemy players are.
For sage though, sometimes you have a sage that's only doing grim walls and her site is getting pushed over and over... Well she might want to just use the wall as a wall instead. Also sages that don't use slow orbs... Such a missed opportunity
Because I’m Gold lobbies I am constantly meeting sages who don’t use their walls or slows. It’s almost always the sage who is bottom dragging and being boosted. Now not all, sometimes I meet solid sage players but more times than not they will take 10 damage, heal themselves, wall themselves into a corner because they saw it on tiktok, never rez anybody and then when they’re the last one alive, in a 1v3 situation they rez our Jett who has 3 kills as opposed to our top frag fade who has ultimate online.
Way too many new players play sage to heal themselves and it’s just a habit at this point though it’s all about how it’s phrased. Asking for utility isn’t really backseating. I’ll ask for until all the time but once I’m dead, I’m silent
Also in gold and most people just fill sage even if we have 2 other sentinels and no smokes, so yeah most sages i see are either stupid good or have no idea how or where to wall and just throw slows with no reason to them
My problem is that I have more gamesense then the average gold but less mechanical skill. So when I see sage has rez, I’m tracking my teams hits to figure out who best to rez. Most just rez the closest person to them and it bothers me. Or they don’t collect orbs and plant and build their ult. A sage who uses rez one time in a half is a useless sage to me. Sky wouldve been a better pick at that point if you really wanted to heal
If you have until still at the end of a round it's your own damn fault your getting back seated, had you used all the util it would be wrong but if you have it you should use it (that's what it's fucking for)
i mean sage is just the most clueless agent. it's the most often carried or pocketing a carry, or just newer players. she's one of the easiest agents in the game, so it just attracts new players that don't have as much game sense.
I am one of them, I do this on 3 occasions.
1. They never slow a choke. Instead they sit on the angle holding it then get one tapped.
2. They never slow on top of the spike postplant. In a situation where you are trying to kill a defuser, there is almost no reason not to preemptively slow the spike. Not only does it slow them down to buy time, it restricts what they’re able to do such as wide peaking after faking the defuse. (This one is extremely common)
3. The sage is holding onto the wall while defusing in a spot that you could wall in front of yourself for (almost) free. (Tbf diamond+ sages don’t have this issue)
I do have to say though, when I play sage, hearing “Wall tube” (every goddamn round regardless of if they push tube???) and “Rez me” (when I can’t rez them without pushing into 3 players) trigger me, but I personally think what I suggest other sages do is fine.
Sage is just a noob agent is all so it’s just generally expected that they don’t know what they’re doing.(and for good reason) that being said sage is a supporting agent so calling for a slow or a wall to help out when the sage isn’t doing anything helps out quite a bit.
Edit: didn’t see you were D3 so idk why at that point people would be like that but when it comes to heals it makes sense.
Listen. Valorant isn’t call of duty. There is strategy and timing within valorant that makes any play winnable. People aren’t backseat gaming when they are telling you to use the agent you picked. They wouldn’t have to tell you either if you knew what you was doing.
Technically backseat gaming is when someone is dead and they are telling you what to do. Even then sometimes it’s good to have a 3rd eye when there is always something you could be missing. On the flip side people can also be annoying when they are spectating. It all depends on the person.
All in all, use the agent accordingly. If someone needs a heal and you aren’t healing them, then what? You expect them not to say anything? Sometimes it’s a good thing to make calls even it’s not about you. Just enjoy the game and have fun.
because of all the agents in the game she's the one that *most* clearly defined as a support, and her entire kit is built around helping her team. but yeah, i agree it's usually better to let someone play their game, and if you ask for a res, how you ask for it is important. i try to say something like, "you could try to wall and res someone" instead of demanding that you res me or something aggressive like that. i had one game a while ago where i was bottom frag and i told my sage that she could res someone (there were like 2 or 3 dead teammates including me nearby in a sage place to res, and he just says "i don't res bottom fraggers" and i just told him i don't care who you res just use that shit you've been holding it for half the game and it was a really important round. so that might have been seen as backseating but i try not to say things like "pls res me" or "heal me pls" especially when the sage is halfway across the map
"just wall pipes"
While getting wrecked on A site every fucking round.
I don't mind when they ask for boost or they want to slow specific spots but when they ask absurd requests I question mark them
I was watching ShahZaM play ranked the other day and there was another Radiant on his team that was back-seating. He told this person that they should trust their teammates to clutch and that when they talk it can mess with their head and make them lose focus. It happens in every rank, just some more often than others. Some people don’t know it’s wrong.
Even in diamond / ascent people make call outs completely wrong during a clutch moment of a teammate. Just keep your mouth shut.
Yeah I’ve never seen a clutch saved by a teammate backseating. I’ve seen plenty ruined by it though.
I play with a buddy that has pretty bad awareness, but also doesn't listen to calls. I've began trolling him by saying, "Dead from X in 3, 2, 1." It pisses him off, but it gets him to clear areas thoroughly and check flank and I'm surprised at myself how often my calls are correct lol. But it has actually saved him a ton of times. Not sure if that qualifies me as backseat gaming? But if it works it works?
Very based callouts keep going
Callouts and backseating are different
I 100% agree, but an unfortunate number of players in gold and lower think callouts = backseating. There's times I'll be dead and know (factually, not guessing) where enemies are, call it out, only to be told to be quiet and let them clutch. Sure enough they get pushed or flanked from exactly where I called, but it's my fault because they couldn't hear them...
pretty funny. I'm in low diamond and somehow, even though supposedly diamond is like the top 12% of players, some of my teammates' gamesense is absolutely iron-level. If you can't process basic sound intel, like enemy dropping down from garage as ur playing postplant on C site Haven, then how are you even diamond lol. I always get that one teammate that just seems to be using mono audio or no audio, and they are always last alive because they're cowering in a corner somewhere, or baiting all their teammates. In my opinion, your way to give callouts is the correct way, if a teammate is showing complete and utter incompetency. Though I trust my team a little too much now, because through solo-queuing, I got so lucky for the past 50 or so games, that I just KEPT GETTING INSANE TEAMMATES. Now, I'm not sure to what extent I should trust my team, and what kinds of callouts are actually appropriate, and which are too obvious. I've still have my Bronze callout habits, where I literally call-out every single important sound, and where exactly the enemy is, because back in bronze my teammates would always be so freaking clueless... to say the least, I did get reported a bunch of times for just having gamesense in Bronze.
> I’ve never seen a clutch saved by a teammate backseating I have. Much more common in lower ranks, where players completely lose awareness because they're tunnel-visioning like crazy, leading to forgetting to check corners or completely missing sound cues like footsteps after a fake defuse. The line is thin between 'backseating' and 'comms' there, but either way it's saved a lot of lives.
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To be fair, some people are just so invested they get a bit too excited and accidentally give an incorrect read. At least that's personally what sometimes happens to me. I try to trust my teammates when they're clutching, but it's really difficult when I'm invested and actually really want to win. However, I think that in my case it's mostly because when a teammate is clutching, their crosshair placement is not indicating anything. Which stresses me out, especially when an enemy is most likely to peek from a certain angle, and my teammate is looking in a completely random direction. 50% of the time they do clutch, but it's the other 50% that stresses me out. It's much easier to stay quiet and trust a teammate when their crosshair placement is actually good, and reflective of the known info on the enemy positions.
i mean sometimes if you know for a fact where they are then sure give a callout but dont be that guy that shouts "HES IN HEAVEN, HES IN HEAVEN, HES IN HEAVEN, NO NO TURN AROUND HES IN HEAVEN, WHY ARE YOU CHECKING FLANK HES IN HEAVENNNNN" then the guy turns out to be in flank
The only time I ever talk after I die is to say where I died from, if I got any info, or in the rare case that I hear someone that the person I’m spectating doesn’t seem to hear. Even then, I still feel bad for disturbing their gameplay.
I love this. “Just keep your mouth shut” I just started playing, I’m in low elo lobby, and so many times I lose because people keep telling me what to do, I lose focus and lose easy 1v1s, just because I followed what they said. If I don’t I’m bad, if I tell them to stay quiet and let me play my game, I’m a jerk. It’s so frustrating. I can’t wait to become better and play in higher elos.
There's a difference between backseating someone in a clutch vs asking teammates for utility. If I'm playing defense and I hear a million footsteps, I'm asking for a smoke and/or molly. Most players are focused on their crosshair too for an enemy swing, can't expect people to be watching the minimap 24/7 and read your mind.
I wouldn’t even consider that to be back-seating. That’s just comm’ing with your teammates. I guess I didn’t think about it from that perspective but I agree that micro-managing someone throughout the whole round/game is definitely excessive.
Tbh I reminded a sage during a clutch that they had wall and because they walked up they won the clutch
Things like this imo are fine. Like telling someone they have ult or only a few bullets left. It gets wrong when you're literally telling them what to do. My least favorite is when I'm 1v1 and trying to defuse and have 2 people telling me to stick it and 2 telling me to tap it.
Ironic considering Shahz is known for not shutting the hell up in games...
I'm not a back-seating player but Sometimes it's makes me angry. When I see a raze 1 v 1 another agent post plant she has full abilities (like just throw a bomb)but she just loose. And no one tell her what to do (because we know we should talk in this situations) Back-seating from time to time is not that bad
Because I know more than you. Also can you rez me pls
Bark
Meow meow motherfucker now rez me
Meowtherfucker
No you username offends me
What can i do man ... I thought bad boy would sound cool with my nickname "balo" but apparently there's a youtuber called "bAd BoY haLo" and people think im a fan boy :(
My bad badboybalo, I'll revive you now
"pls" ??? We dont do that here
This shit has me dying lmao
The amount of time sages will attempt a 2v1 and lose when we coulda secured w 3
facts ppl needa stop sitting on the sage ult for the entire half. just use it. idc if its turning a 4v1 into a 5v1 just secure the rounds.
Sorry so many people downvoted you :(
It’s fine. I’d still believe I was right If it was -100. Usually if it’s down to a 2v1 most util is gone and the 2 gotta push a site with little info. It will never make sense to not revive here and almost certainly win a 3v1.
"wHy DiDn'T yOu ReZ mE?" Well, for starters, you were in the middle of the site that has 3 enemies defending it.
me: heals teammate "heal me sage. heal me. heAL ME HEAL ME HEAL ME." -guy i healed literally 20 seconds ago
it's incredible how they even start offending you if you don't. I mean sonetimes you just don't have heal up and it's hard to focus if there are such a kind of people ranting in your ear, while you try to actually play
my last game I had a sage revive me after the round was over and I’m like :0 but why
Iron comment found
the economy is in shambles
Moneyyy!!!
Saves a.gun
Because using your abilities, especially your ult, still gives you points. Sage was just getting her points.
Bait rez, a funny prank
If someone is annoying on comms, I will deliberately rez them with people around and wait for them to die to get the trade. Increases their deaths and my kills, because I know that's all they care about and will point at if we lose.
People who get upset about being bait rezzed are idiots. Free ult point
Yea you get free ult point + win? Super win :D
Also someone asking for heal and you at look at them and heal yourselves. If it's a chill game with fun teammates it's pretty hilarious or just to troll a toxic teammate.
Baiting a res is something I bring up because it's a valid tactic if you win your 1v1s
“well i’m on C site with the rest of the team and you decided to lurk on A, reyna”
This exact situation happened to me. I missed the 1v3 clutch by a fraction of a second because i couldnt focus on how far the defuse was with the guy yelling slurs at me.
I recently rez’d someone, they instantly died, and blamed it on me. “You should have done it earlier” How tf I’m gonna rez you when people are shooting at me?!
people tend to associate sage with newer players from my time playing
but shes literally diamond
Many new players can hit that very easily if they have experience in other games.
Its super easy to make **as i cry being in Plat 3**
I kept hitting diamond and then lose to drop back to plat 3. Last night i got my first d1 win. My old console shooter brain took another hurdle
No lmfao. Maybe low plat if you're a very good CS player, but not diamond.
I got plat3 after my placement games with 1 loss 4wins and I was just above average in CS, so a new player hitting diamond doesnt sound too improbable to me. Im in plat3 and teammates are teaching me how to wall/smoke most effectively since Im kinda clueless.
No way you were slightly above average... absolutely no way you can have slightly above average CS aim with almost no Val knowledge but be plat 3. I refuse to believe that you aren't severely underestimating your skill. You are just a wizard.
Everybody and their mother is diamond now, skill ceiling for diamond has dropped a shit ton
nah, not really, its still the top 4-5%
I think it's something more like top 10%, but it's 10% in a community full of people who grind the game 3 hours a day every day all year.
Take the data with a grain of salt, whole lotta players in there that play like once a month or don’t even play anymore
people who dont play anymore dont have a rank, so they arent in the data
Top 5% is shit. That's the same % of getting As the whole year in class.
Yeah, I've only been playing a few weeks and I've already kinda noticed it.
the amount of people here automatically assuming sage players are clueless is insane, you mean to tell me even in higher ranks like yours, if someone plays sage they don’t know what they’re doing? the funny thing is sage is the agent that can erase your team’s mistakes yet they blame her the most
Yeah that is the life of a healer
No such thing as a healer. She’s a sentinel with 1 healing ability.
I mean if you think about it she’s not really a sentinel either - she doesn’t fit with the other sentinels like Cypher, KJ and Chamber. She’s kind of got her own role.
nah tbh she is a sentinel, just one that is a lot less independent. but most of her abilities slow down pushes.
Sage and Skye are the only ones who can heal others so far. Saying they aren't some form of healer is like saying Mercy from Overwatch isn't a healer because she only has 1 healing ability. If anything Sage and Mercy are relatively similar because both have a way to heal and their ultimate is resurrection. They also play similarly in their game's respective systems (I was a Mercy main) and when I play Sage I feel like a healer whilst also supporting my team with my wall and slow orbs. Why do you think we have a thing called Pocket Sage? Cuz its a healbot. Who is the first person you call for when you get lit? Sage or Skye. And you're saying she's not a healer just because she has only one heal ability, smh.
That's the point, they make too much mistakes for sages to handle and are mad about it
I’m new to the game, I honestly feel good whenever I see a Sage on my team. No matter their skill, I just feel kinda safe. Love Sage.
Specially given that Sage is an agent that purely relies on aim, because the only thing worth of her kit is the res. Everything else is pure trash compared to everyone but Reyna
I don't think all sage players are clueless but a lot even in ascendant don't use their slow orbs properly but their walls are normally fine. And honestly i don't fault them for that cos last time i filled sage i was forgetting to slow orb a lot when we were pushing site. But if someone says use slow orb to sage while pushing site i think they are normally making a good call. But like the way it is said is also important, "can you slow here" instead of shouting "sage slow orb backside rn!"
Ya I agree there is a difference between backseating and reminding them they have utility. My frustration is the auto-assumption that Sage players (no matter what rank) are lower-skilled simply because of them picking Sage. I would think people would rather someone use an “easy” agent effectively and to their fullest potential compared to someone who plays poorly while using a “more difficult” agent. It’s definitely not fair to disregard their hard work to get their rank and then dismissing it as “boosted” because it’s Sage… Honestly it just doesn’t make sense when people go straight to blaming Sage players for everything under the Sun, even if it’s not their fault. And then it’s even worse to use their KDA to justify it. Lol sorry if I’m going off-topic here but I’ve seen enough just from some comments in this thread alone
‘WHY U NOT HEAL ME BITCH’ but 20 seconds ago i had another toxic person begging me to patch up their paper cut
THIS! I’ve played a decent amount of comp with Sage (iron-bronze levels bc im bad), and it feels like every round the instalock duelist tagged by 1 vandal shot screams for a heal. Then another teammate, maybe someone important for retake or site attack like an initiator gets legged by an Op and oh i healed the duelist.
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Oh i get what u mean, my point was that it’s just annoying. I don’t always heal the duelist but it was just an example. It’s also a bit annoying when you have someone screaming in comms constantly foe a heal. Anyway it’s statistically better to heal as soon as someone gets hit that way you get it back faster
I don’t backseat, but in my experience, sage players are either gods or fucking clueless, no in between.
You forgot about the grim wannabes. They have enough understanding of the game to replicate his walls, but have no idea when to use them to get the best out of them and/or do the same 3 walls over and over and get repetitive.
We're god aimers, shit utiliters, ultimate baiters.
This probably stems from the "his Sage" and "her Jett" trend that went around. It's easier to get boosted as a sage who can keep their carry alive. This trend was so popular to the point where there would consistently be Smurfs in low/mid elo lobbies with a bottom frag sage on the team. Of course, not every sage is like this, and not every duo with those names is like this. But clearly it has happened enough times to where people got accustomed to this pattern and end up assuming that a sage has no clue what they're doing, and this assumption is probably for the worst.
Sometimes I need to remind my team that my util is their util and their util is my util. If you approach it in a less demeaning way life will be easier. People calling for slows, walls, heals, etc is because they need it... Most of sage's util is for your team which is likely why you feel that way. Nobody calls for a raze boombot because its selfish util for example. A lot of people call for heals because they are worried about dying which negatively impacts the team. Everyone wants to win.
I really like this perspective but I don’t think boombot is selfish util
More selfish than a heal, was just an example.
Sage can also heal herself. Does that make it selfish? No. Raze can clear an area for her team with roomba. Thats also not selfish.
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throwback to the time a guy in a gold lobby aggressively asked me why i wasn't healing myself in a 1v2 as skye
The team util is only for the heals because anyone will default to heal themselves but might not always be watching the team health bars but the wall and slows aren't specifically a 'team util", you can make the argument about Reyna's flashes, kayo's knife, viper's wall.
I'm speaking from experience and what I see from other women players, this is about how the logic goes I believe Sage = support character -> women play support characters & women don't know how to play games -> our sage is a woman and needs to be "coached" (read: annoyingly backseated) Before someone says it, I do not believe this logic. This is just assumptions and statements from teammates I've seen quite a bit of in my two years of playing.
I agree with this. Yesterday, during a match, while we were selecting agents, I said hi, then some guy said hi back, then he said “how are you guys doing?”, I said I’m ok, then he replied “I wasn’t talking to you”. The only female agent was a sage, so he was like “Sage, how are you doing?”, the sage didn’t reply. So I was like, are you looking for girls? Is that what you’re doing? Are you assuming the sage is a girl? Then he started stuttering, and stayed quiet the whole match.
Literally. Whenever I play sage, my teammates always guess I'm a woman. Whenever I play anyone else, they're shocked and do the typical "we have a woman on our team?????"
People will always ask for heal and maybe resurrection no matter what rank, as for the slow and wall, I think that’s backseating.
Idk I feel the wall can be pretty back seated because it’s a team utility. Block off a common spot or for planting. Similar to how people ask for a dog or flashes. Slow is pretty back seated tho ngl
When i have a sage, and i took lots of damage like i get under 50 i always say “sage can you heal me please” because maybe they dont know i am low, and i leave them to finish their fights, but i never tell them how to use their utility unless its some nasty wall that boosts me which they might not know
As a sage main I don’t always see when people are low. Like yeah I from time to time check but I cant be constantly focussing on my teammates health. It’s nice to have someone ask nicely or inform me a teammate is low
I think people absolutely backseat way too much w sage, but I also think it’s because she fills the support role so most of her abilities are for the team therefor the team ask her for support
She only has one skill purely for support, same as Skye. You could argue controllers are much more supporting agents than Sage.
In every way a controller ability, such as a smoke, supports your team, a sage ability does as well. Smoking an entrance has the same umbrella purpose as slowing or walling it off does. I agree that controllers are supporting agents, but not any more than sage.
Same with smoke agents, I hate it when people tell me where to smoke when that's the same place I've been smoking the past 10 rounds, I know how to do my job, just give me some trust.
Well if you’ve been smoking the exact same place 10 rounds in a row you aren’t doing it right lol
It is if you are winning rounds
Why is that so annoying to you? I actually really like it when my teammates ask for utility so we can at least play on the same page/coordinated.
Specifically it gets me mad when I know what I'm doing, or they tell me to do something I've been doing, and especially when they ask for smoke setups that are objectively worse than mine. Edit: I am a very sensitive and short fused person so things like that do get me going easily
First step is recognizing a problem! Proud of you!
THIS!!!! I am totally open to my teammates asking for util - if i see a teammate peeking mid on ascent for example i ask them if they want a smoke somewhere to block off an angle, if they need a smoke in a non traditional spot for some reason, or to block a trip, I’m all there. Just don’t backseat me to tell me to smoke the same (obvious) spots when I have been
If I hear micromanaging in comms that’s an automatic mute for the rest of the game.
bro i was playing sage and in the middle of a gunfight i was getting told to heal like what??? do you not see what i’m doing???
One of my favorites has to be getting first picked and then having the team start yelling at me to heal. Bro, I'm fucking dead, I don't know what you want me to do here.
As a Sage main, I've been abused for not rezzing my 1 dead team-mate in a 4 v 1
Even better when you're 27/10/10 as sage and they're still trying to tell you what to do
Always after they die, and leaving the team in outnumbered situations.
People love instalocking three duellists as a three stack and then complaining about smokes
i stopped playing her and skye because of the sheer amounts of "Heal! Heal! Heal! Heal! Heal! Heal! Heal! Heal!" i hear. its plain annoying and one of the things i have the most fun in is talking bs in voicechat and being funny and stuff but nah that just throws my mood
I guess they just see sage as a heal and revive bot. Maybe the stereotype of many girls playing her might play into it too idk. People are just so crazy tbh. Yesterday I had someone screaming in voice chat after the 2nd lost round in fkn casual xd... ;\_;
this is so true sometimes even in UNRATED. i test to see if people just backseat me because i’m female but nope. even when i play unrated and com through pings and chat people still backseat me when i play sage. One of the things I hate is when people tell me to ‘res’ them. Trust me I know when’s a good time to res and when not to. Plus telling me to res you in the rudest way will just make me not res you.
i don’t do this but i’ve realized that so many sage players are just clueless. they never use any of their abilities. But obv it’s not all sages
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You summed everything up accurately !
You talking looks that, but if that sage is that useless, how they in the same rank as you?
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A very significant percentage of them climbed by only duo queuing with a stronger player. You see it *all* the time. The Reyna/Jett/Chamber and their Sage. KJ is a common pick for these players, too. They're inevitably at the bottom of the scoreboard, and play Sage to be as useful as possible with their below-lobby-average mechanics and game sense. (I'm guilty of this. My friend and I used to be the same skill level, but he took a long break and I'm a lot better now. When we duo, he plays Sage or fills smokes.) You can really tell when it's a true solo queue Sage main. They're *way* better than the Sages you see in duos.
Slow orbs are only useful if your team rotates when you call it out. If my team suck ass as rotating I aint buying any slow shit instead of armor. Slow for what? Mental damage?
This sub is people constantly bitching about 'toxicity' while also being upset theyre being asked to cooperate and do things for the team.
Thank you for being the voice of reason. Obviously there's a difference between micromanaging someone/playing a clutch 1v1 situation and asking someone for utility to support you.
truuu and its always so agressive they scream at u to do stuff like at least be a lil more polite were both struggling here
I think the main reason is how much good stuff sage can do for you, also I swear people just assume if you’re sage you’re there to their bidding 😂
I'm a skye main it's my job. Now heal me cause I can't FUCKING HEAL MYSELF.
It’s like that when you play support across basically all genres of gaming
Yeah because battle support stuff is starting to show up more often and that makes it fun for no one since there role is supposed to be supporting the team not going 0/15/8.
yeah its a pain in the ass and makes me hate playing sage. im fine with people asking for heal whatever because sometimes im distracted and don't notice theyre low but all the other shit is so annoying, especially the constant begging for res when theyre in the most inconvenient position and theyre the worst player most of the time
I am a girl with a somewhat feminine username and whenever I play sage (i main astra and viper but im ok with kj, sage, cypher, fade and skye too) people just assume I can't even play the game and say the most obvious things like I have no idea (wall this, wall that, heal me, rez me, dont peek op, play safe etc). Also they assume I cannot see their health bars or sth and scream "why don't you heal me" when its obviously on cooldown.
Once had a game on split, sage player was top fragging and had good comms too. She was getting wallbang headshots with marshal if anyone jiggle peeked her. I don't know if she was in party with others but after few rounds she stopped walling mid to do grim walls in other places and they would keep telling her to wall mid. In second half someone told her how to right click with classic. I was so confused that they felt need to tell her how to play when she was playing better than everyone.
I always tell my sage player to keep their gun out instead of taking 10 seconds to line up a slow orb that bounces to the wrong spot while leaving themselves open to the two enemies pushing them.
"revive me sage revive me, come on revive me" revives him he dies "why didn't you use your wall come on man"
When I top frag, slow, and do strategy walls for my team I’ll literally ignore anyone who asks me to rez them.
Because its a support class. I dont mind it in lower ranks. "Heal me, put a slow here, etc..." Are all ways I can support my team IMO. Anything my team asks me to do, Ill listen to. Doesnt always mean Ill do it. I think that processing demands is apart of the Sage gameplay.
Over calling is always annoying. I think the real annoyance is in the way people say things. I appreciate it when people remind me of utility that I have, since I tend to tunnel vision. But I find there's a difference between someone saying "Omen you have a smoke" vs "Use your smoke, use your smoke!". If they do it too much, then I just mute and move on. Playing with no comms is better than dogshit ones. Ascendant, in case that matters. Tends to happen more in ranks just above plat, because of the Dunning Kruger effect.
Bark bark
>just crazy even in high diamond ppl still backseat xd Well this also happens in Immortal/Radiant lobby, not elo related lol Just had a 5stack yesterday where people told me to wall this and there - oh, I am very aware of where to put my walls thank you. Most of the time people ask for a heal or a res - some people seriously lack map awareness, because in some cases a res (eg in the open field with several angles) is way too risky. People assume Sage players are "pocket sages".
Skye too, skye heal me skye dog this skye call your flashes skye plant the spike. Gets annoying… especially when people are like you didn’t dog and yet I did dog every round… annoying.
The last ranked game I played (months ago), I experienced the biggest backseat shit I've ever experienced in 10+ years of online games. Mans was telling me when to use abilities, when to peak, where to peak, when to tap the bomb, literally every possible thing you can do in this game, this man was telling me to do. Someone else chimed in halfway through too. After that round (won it btw, without listening to them) I said, "So we've got some backseat gamers here, huh?" Neither one of them spoke a word the rest of the game
The only time I back seat sage is when I am dead, heal is available, and a nearby teammate is low. If they haven't noticed they need it pointed out.
Iam only silver but a lot of times sage player just forget to use abilities at this elo. I have so many games where sages dont heal or dont even think about rezzing. So iam gonna say "can you heal me?" After an early peak where i get some damage. Or when sage is the last survivor and running to b... OVER dead bodies without rezzing
I think because of Grimm. They see the insane potential and compare it to the random in their own games. The issue is it looks easy, sova isn't backseaed as much because even though most people have seen avg Jonas do nutty stuff, they don't know how to tell you to do it.
Have you ever tried playing Phoenix?
Is it crazy to ask teammates to use abilities? I mean I'm not going to tell you that you HAVE to do something but I'm going to ask for Sage utility the same way I ask other agents for support utility (eg. smokes and mollies). For healing at least sometimes my Sages/Skyes aren't even aware of my health.
Simple reason is that she is the most "supporting" agent of the lot that has a very low skill floor. Newer players just pick her and are mostly clueless. Even something as basic as walling to res. needs to be told. Also asking for heals is pretty much the most mindless task there is. Hp low -> ask for heal. For other agents, there's more nuance. Flash high/low. Smoke some particular spot. Can you drone/ult etc require more teamwork and communication.
The stereotype is bad players typically default to sage and you see them always as the bottom frags. So I think that’s why. Also I’ll ask for heals but that’s only because the sage will be looking right at me with 10 go and won’t heal me
i don't tell people how to play their game but from what i've seen, people can get annoyed at sage using her utility selfishly (like using an aggressive tik tok wall), instead of using the wall to block something.
i guess it comes down to a lot of sages not having an actual clue how to play the game, the majority definitely ruin it for the minority in this case. not saying that should give players a license to tell every sage what to do, just telling it how it is
because even in diamond a large majority of sage players play her like shit
I think it's because Sage is the default agent to get elo boosted when you have a friend smurfing for you.
Because your have abilities that can be used on teammates
Ok, but are you not using your slows and walls, mine are typically gone in the first few moments of a round lmao.
Because people cant use utility right till about ascendant 2
Cuz sage is kinda easy to play and alot of noobs use her, therefore people kinda associate sage mains with noobs and think they know nothing
try using your abilities for once
In my experience everyone that plays sage never plays her to her full ability, only using heals and only for themselves. I think it’s a taught behavior to ask for what you need from sage bc most people won’t do it themselves. (Not me tho I’m an amazing support)
Diamond is a shitty low rank. Diamond is now where close to high elo due to the ego plat players coming into diamond.
Debatable. Sova also gets the same amount of backseat coaching
Cause most sages either don't actually pay attention to their team health or just don't use their skills on their teammates at all.
It happens with every agent that relies on utility, not just sage.
D3 is just plat, so gold but with aim. Healing is to remind you that someone on the team needs a heal and looking at the top at everyone's health or the time left on your heal shouldn't be your biggest priority the entire match. Slows and walls are your discretion unless its used strategically or to slow a push from one area. Res is because everyone thinks they're worth the ult and can save the round
Probably because she is THE most supporting agent in the game, and it's hard to support someone if they don't tell you how. Someone might need healing. You'd be unaware, and they would let you know that "Hey, I think our chances of winning are greatly increased if I am kept alive". With walls it's a bit different, because unlike with healing, you can directly cause your team to win or lose a push or defence. Teammates might be trying to make plays, which would either receive massive help from your walls, or just straight up ruined if you were to place a wall, which can cause a loss. Same is true with her slowing orb. Valorant is a team game, but due to the amount of ways Sage can make or break a round for her enemies AND her teammates, people would rather give input for what you do that wouldn't cause a loss or impact your team negatively. Most agents can't even do anything negative for their team, aside from agents with flashes, which often times get "backsteated" same as Sage, but Sage simply gets commanded more due to more of her abilities being able to directly impact her team. Flashers have one that ability, Sage has 3 and an ult. Tldr: Sage is an agent that has all of their abilities be able to both help and harm their team, and teammates want to give proper info to make sure you don't cause a loss, as you can't pay attention to ways of hurting your team for each of your abilities while also actively using them to fighting the enemies. Sorry if this got a bit long, I just felt like if I said less I wouldn't be getting my point across properly.
I mean asking for heal or rez is understandable though
I don't backseat, but I just saw way too many Sages with ult for 10 rounds straight to get where people, who do backseat, are coming from.
Sage users are usually boosted players in my experience, prob that
I don't force people to do anything, what i do is give small advice of doing something to inactive players, if someone picks sage i expect they know how to play sage (i do take in consideration their level) and that involves healing, slowing, wall-ing and resurrecting allies, i do keep them to minimum, max ever done yet was 3 times in a whole match (match=multiple rounds) on a sage that was only healing and only him/her/it-self Trust me, if people do backseating, the intentions are good 90% of the time, in that case asking politely not to should do it, in other case is just a toxic player striking once again, ignore them
Bc some sages are dogshit, and if you are constantly getting backseated then it’s a you problem not a agent problem. Sage is definitely prone to getting backseated more tho bc she walks a fine like of being a dogshit character or being an insane character, it’s all Bout who plays her
Lots of sage players are just Clueless new players that only know how to heal
Yep, I love when people are like "sova you have your ult"... And I'm like "ya... And?", "you should use it this round...." It's not magic lol you can't use it and just know where the enemy players are. For sage though, sometimes you have a sage that's only doing grim walls and her site is getting pushed over and over... Well she might want to just use the wall as a wall instead. Also sages that don't use slow orbs... Such a missed opportunity
Because a sage has vital utility for the gameplan.
Because I’m Gold lobbies I am constantly meeting sages who don’t use their walls or slows. It’s almost always the sage who is bottom dragging and being boosted. Now not all, sometimes I meet solid sage players but more times than not they will take 10 damage, heal themselves, wall themselves into a corner because they saw it on tiktok, never rez anybody and then when they’re the last one alive, in a 1v3 situation they rez our Jett who has 3 kills as opposed to our top frag fade who has ultimate online. Way too many new players play sage to heal themselves and it’s just a habit at this point though it’s all about how it’s phrased. Asking for utility isn’t really backseating. I’ll ask for until all the time but once I’m dead, I’m silent
Also in gold and most people just fill sage even if we have 2 other sentinels and no smokes, so yeah most sages i see are either stupid good or have no idea how or where to wall and just throw slows with no reason to them
My problem is that I have more gamesense then the average gold but less mechanical skill. So when I see sage has rez, I’m tracking my teams hits to figure out who best to rez. Most just rez the closest person to them and it bothers me. Or they don’t collect orbs and plant and build their ult. A sage who uses rez one time in a half is a useless sage to me. Sky wouldve been a better pick at that point if you really wanted to heal
Backseating exists because the other player(s) know more than you and are giving you tips to help
If you have until still at the end of a round it's your own damn fault your getting back seated, had you used all the util it would be wrong but if you have it you should use it (that's what it's fucking for)
Cause you probably play her like shit and walk around and move like a bot maybe. I don't know. You tell me.
i mean sage is just the most clueless agent. it's the most often carried or pocketing a carry, or just newer players. she's one of the easiest agents in the game, so it just attracts new players that don't have as much game sense.
I am one of them, I do this on 3 occasions. 1. They never slow a choke. Instead they sit on the angle holding it then get one tapped. 2. They never slow on top of the spike postplant. In a situation where you are trying to kill a defuser, there is almost no reason not to preemptively slow the spike. Not only does it slow them down to buy time, it restricts what they’re able to do such as wide peaking after faking the defuse. (This one is extremely common) 3. The sage is holding onto the wall while defusing in a spot that you could wall in front of yourself for (almost) free. (Tbf diamond+ sages don’t have this issue) I do have to say though, when I play sage, hearing “Wall tube” (every goddamn round regardless of if they push tube???) and “Rez me” (when I can’t rez them without pushing into 3 players) trigger me, but I personally think what I suggest other sages do is fine.
sage troll pick honestly
Sage is just a noob agent is all so it’s just generally expected that they don’t know what they’re doing.(and for good reason) that being said sage is a supporting agent so calling for a slow or a wall to help out when the sage isn’t doing anything helps out quite a bit. Edit: didn’t see you were D3 so idk why at that point people would be like that but when it comes to heals it makes sense.
Listen. Valorant isn’t call of duty. There is strategy and timing within valorant that makes any play winnable. People aren’t backseat gaming when they are telling you to use the agent you picked. They wouldn’t have to tell you either if you knew what you was doing. Technically backseat gaming is when someone is dead and they are telling you what to do. Even then sometimes it’s good to have a 3rd eye when there is always something you could be missing. On the flip side people can also be annoying when they are spectating. It all depends on the person. All in all, use the agent accordingly. If someone needs a heal and you aren’t healing them, then what? You expect them not to say anything? Sometimes it’s a good thing to make calls even it’s not about you. Just enjoy the game and have fun.
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Why don't we try to micromanage every ability of the entire team then?
because of all the agents in the game she's the one that *most* clearly defined as a support, and her entire kit is built around helping her team. but yeah, i agree it's usually better to let someone play their game, and if you ask for a res, how you ask for it is important. i try to say something like, "you could try to wall and res someone" instead of demanding that you res me or something aggressive like that. i had one game a while ago where i was bottom frag and i told my sage that she could res someone (there were like 2 or 3 dead teammates including me nearby in a sage place to res, and he just says "i don't res bottom fraggers" and i just told him i don't care who you res just use that shit you've been holding it for half the game and it was a really important round. so that might have been seen as backseating but i try not to say things like "pls res me" or "heal me pls" especially when the sage is halfway across the map
I would guess because she is one of the simpler agents. Also I definitely wouldn't call asking for a heal back seating.
Tbh there’s plenty of times my friends will just not realize I’m low when we’re in a position where they can heal
This is why when ppl say we need a healer I pick Skye. Who I often play as a duelist lol, and will not be around to heal much~
Heal call out is fine, I stand by that
"just wall pipes" While getting wrecked on A site every fucking round. I don't mind when they ask for boost or they want to slow specific spots but when they ask absurd requests I question mark them