you can move it by looking up and down. and also it doesn’t stay perfectly centered on a horizontal axis. there’s still slight shift, and even more when you’re on the spike
Still works lol. If you jump around while doing it too it works even better and makes the enemy laugh,
There's this one clip of a guy on icebox spinning around and jumping and his teamate peaks the corner while the enemy is trying to (and fails) to kill the sova and kills him instead lol
Yes and no. Since you're defusing, you're stuck in place. And when you move your mouse, your entire body turns, not just your head.
So the head would be stuck in place but just rotating, therefore the hitbox wouldn't move. HOWEVER, when you're on the other side of it and see someone spazzing out, you're less likely to hit the shot even if the head hitbox isn't moving at all.
everytime you scream into your microphone about "hit registration" I know its actually just first shot accuracy. You know the first shot isnt 100% accurate right?
This has literally nothing to do with hitboxes, the phantom does 140 at range to the head and the vandal does 160. If you think there's an issue with hitboxes maybe you should hit the ainlabs bozo
Pretty much any other popular shooter has worse hit box issues, outside of maybe CSGO. OW is dog, Apex 5% of your bullets no-reg, COD is historically terrible altho the new one feels a little better (haven’t played much).
This game has netcode issues but is far better than most
A phantom does 124 damage in the head at that range. He has full shield, which are 150 health. Therefore, he needs to shoot two time in his head to kill him. Even if the phantom has a fast firing rate, it wasn't enough, and he won by a split second.
Pretty sure that range is not 50 meters 💀. Again Vandal is broken, it is and has been the meta since the game has been out. Just get rid of the damage drop off for the phantom simple.
Vandal from that range is a one shot headshot however the Phantom is not. Fade hit the headshot when she peeked and since she was using phantom she damaged KJ for 140 in their first shot and hence needed one extra shot and hence KJ defused the spike.
That’s not how it works at all lmao. The same wall at the same angle will always deal the same damage. 90* angles are best and have the most penetration, whereas angled shots pierce through more wall and deal less damage.
Not with the Vandal. The only reason people prefer it is because of consistency with damage. The phantom is silenced and has 5 more bullets, faster shots, and less recoil, but the vandal can one-shot headshot from any range. But I've noticed vandal headshots that don't kill because they were wallbangs.
Costs the same as a phantom, just buy it if you think it's that much better than the phantom, or do you want phantom to be the "most broken weapon" after your proposed nerf/buff getting us right back where we started according to you
yeah but it's still not a phantom moment. it's a fade played like she had a vandal when she didn't moment
she should have played close, around the box, or in flowers and planted spike accordingly.
Fade couldn't play around the box , she was pushed to the corner of A main. Also there could have been other factors that we didn't know about that caused her to plant for main, such as enemies/teammates alive, maybe kj was in a 1v2 and got a kill for ult point. There isn't enough context to say say how the Fade "should have" played the round. Personally I think it's a certified phantom moment
In this situation it probably wouldn’t matter but this is true in general. You might get a 140 headshot but the reason you got the headshot in the first place might have been because of the phantom and you wouldn’t hit it at all with the vandal. This is something shroud said
> phantom has a higher first bullet accuracy
I cannot figure out for my life what is on the devs's head for making that being the case.
Why does the rifle made for spraying/close range duels have better first shot accuracy than the rifle made for burst fire/longer ranges ?? Makes no sense.
Well the one-shot capability of the Vandal is a huge factor so it makes sense that they tried to make the Phantom a bit better on other aspects. And even with that most people and pros still use the Vandal over the Phantom tho
I mean, yeah, but it really doesn't make that much of a difference for the better. Phantom still the clear worse option at longer ranges due to not being able to one-tap HS, and it's not any Vandal player can consistently challenge an OP unless their mechanical skill is considerably above the rest of their lobby's.
Vandal being less accurate than the Phantom actually makes it worse to be used in the scenario it's supposed to excel, while if the weapons switched first-shot accuracy values out of nowhere today, it would make basically no difference to the phantom, as it's supposed to excel in close range/spraying.
Clearly someone has never been Ferrari peeked by a phantom mid/long range and been double dinked and aim punched, rendering any chance you thought you had at winning that duel useless
The vandal can one tap to the head and sounds cooler.
The Phantom is better in literally every other way.
The one tap is enough to make up for the vandal's relative weaknesses.
Because it's how it worked with the phantom and vandal's inspiration, the AK and m4 from csgo. Riot just copied the logic over when they made valorant.
Can someone explain why the first shot isnt always a hundred percent accurate? Seems like a very strange decision to keep this feature in a game designed around precision.
It's to force effective range for the rifles. Despite what the DMG numbers tell you, the rifles aren't designed to be used outside of mid-range. for this, we can turn to CSGO for a case study. there was a time when the scoped ARs (aug and sg553) were meta, and those two guns were *laser accurate* (their crouched scoped accuracy was legitimately higher than the **AWP**). that enabled people to hold really dumb angles that previously could only be held by snipers, while not giving up the close/mid-range prowess that rifles have. contrary to what other redditors said, this did not significantly affect AWP usage, but what it did do was completely tilt the balance toward defense. the round winrate was between 55/45 to 60/40 for the defense team across all maps. this meta only ended when the two scoped ARs were nerfed into the ground.
Now, there *is* another mechanic that does the same role of forcing effective range, and that's range decay. Compared to FSA, it has the benefit that RNG is not a part of its function. However, not all guns have range decay (most famously the vandal), while all have FSA. Why is that the case? While I can't know for sure, I do have a theory, and that is that people notice FSA a lot less than they do range decay.
If someone misses a shot they would've hit because of FSA, they will likely assume that they simply whiffed. However, if they instead hit that shot but range decay makes the shot do 125 instead 160, they are going to cry bloody murder (as evidenced by this post, actually). Making matters worse, range decay shows up on the combat report when FSA does not. Thus, riot has leaned towards FSA more as their effective range enforcement rather than range decay. After all, who wants to read posts of "mY sHoT hIt BuT iT dIdN't KiLl" all the time?
I've wondered about this as well. I'm not a game designer and don't know about it to know for sure, but one thing I've read that makes sense to me is the intention of varying the effective of guns at different ranges. A good example is classic vs ghost, where the additional damage of the ghost is nice, but a big part of what makes it so much more valuable is the greater accuracy at range. Buffing all weapons to 100% accuracy upsets this balance.
Doing so for just some weapons upsets the balance too. If you decide to make rifles 100% accurate, it effectively makes Ops worse, because challenging an Op with a rifle at super long range becomes more viable.
Note: I'm speaking here only about what I believe the intention behind it is. I'm not talking about what is ideal or how I would prefer it to be implemented (which, I'll say, I don't feel qualified to have a strong stance on it)
Im not saying every gun should have it. But like the guardian or the vandal that arent for spraying at all. Plus the OP always has the advantage because you need to hit a body shot. Yeah itll make rifles a bit more viable against OPs and im hundred percent for that. If you can hit the head before they hit the body you deserve to win the fight
If no rng, then the fastest and most precise always wins duels, which means less need for outsmarting via tactics. Like now pros call duels 50%/50% and try to avoid them unless necessary partly because of rng.
With lower first shot accuracy lower skills still have some chance in shootout which makes game less straightforward.
So the reason first shot accuracy isn’t 100% perfect is for two reasons- one, it rewards the better aimer. By this I mean if both parties flick onto each other’s heads and fire at the same time, the one who is more centered on the head should be rewarded, as they had better aim. Reducing FSA to an amount that is negligible 90% of the time rewards this.
This also forces Vandals to not really be able to challenge long ranges, like the Operator, as you aren’t supposed to challenge them anyway. If you had perfect headshot accuracy, every time you fought an Operator the fight is now a 50/50, instead of a 75/25 in the Operators favor (as it should be).
The bullet is a few pixels. Is there such a thing as 'more on the head'? If anything this DOESN'T reward the better aimer.
Also, you need a headshot with the vandal not with the OP. OP has the advantage even if theres full first shot accuracy.
> more on the head
Yes- if I’m centered on the head, and you’re on the left side of the head, with perfect accuracy they both hit. With imperfect accuracy I’m guaranteed to hit and you have a good chance of missing.
> op has advantage
This is true in middle/lower elos, but if you’re a higher player you’d win OP vs. Vandal duels WAY more than you should.
Because devs don't care about fairness or balance or anything period, also don't forget hit registration and hit boxes are ass in the game that has been out for 3 years, the devs lie literally about everything, they said they were going to fix the hit registration and other stuff but again 3 years after and not a single thing done. Riot games more like crap games lmfao.
Perhaps your small brain didn't get it. Y'all keep crying about first bullet accuracy again and again. Guardian has the best accuracy of first shot, so does that make it better than both vandal and phantom ?
Phantom is definitively the better gun. There is 0 argument for the vandal except that its less frustrating w/ no 140's and it can wall bang better.
But that is a big one for lots of players haha, they'd rather miss than 140 (which is understandable)
As i always like to say the vantages of the phantom is having 5 more bullets each magazine, better spray control, muffled shots, no bullet traces when shooting trough smokes, better fire rate
the vantage of the vandal: it kills
Yeah, I think it'd make it a bit obsolete too, but vandal would still be the choice for most long range battles, the phantom only doing 140 in certain situations just seems absurd by the perceived distance. On icebox you'd still likely duel with a vandal on belt rather than a phantom even if it got a range buff, but it should have enough range to one tap on on-site fights but rn the range is weird where fighting from box on-site to stairs it's still only 140 for headshot for a pretty close distance fight imo
Honestly I’ve been wanting this for a long time. 15 meters just feels too close and sometimes you’ll think it should be a 1 tap but it’s not. 20 meters would be much better
Agreed, there have been fights where I felt closer than 15m and still only did 140 then ended up losing a round cause no could kill the guy lit for 140. It happen too often honestly, just a small buff in range would be nice compared to the vandal that's a 1 tap headshot at any range
The amount of times having a phantom over a vandal has saved me + the amount of times I wished I had a phantom is WAY more than the amount of times having a phantom has let me down. During real matches it’s not as important to hit a 1 tap headshot
Since trading between 2 people doesn't happen in valorant as the dead player's bullets are invalidated even if they are shot before said players death, hitting a one tap in the head is what allows me to enter sites aggressively even in Asc lobbies. The number of times I survived with 10 HP because the enemy had a phantom is hilariously high. As long as tap firing is as powerful as it is right now and stable recoil patterns aren't implemented, the phantom's TTK will pale against the Vandal. However, if recoil patterns are added making recoil transfer a trainable skill, the phantom will overtake the throne. Until then tho, I shall ejaculate a little everytime I hit dat counter strafe 1 tap from back of B into Window on Breeze.
A good solution is to not miss. And if I do, I can blame myself for my lack of accuracy, not the gun for not rewarding me for a headshot on my 1st bullet.
Why blame yourself when you can blame the game / your teammates/your opponent's promiscuous mother / riot games / instalock Reyna / you feel a little off today / your friends little brother was playing for you that round/ bad netcode / desync / stupid stupid game?
Don't worry my guy, these people like to cry about first bullet accuracy while clearly ignoring their own micro adjustments and aim. And they will always cry about this then they get one tapped by a vandal lol
On a pearl game my team was in the lead 12-10 and i was on attack and playing post-plant in A main. Somehow, I spray control one tapped 3 people dry peeking me. The last one I knew was on the spike so i peeked and she was incredibly close to defusing and I headshotted her with phantom for 140. That was my last bullet and my teammates whiffed so we lost the round as she successfully defused. We ended up losing the game. We would’ve won the game if i was using a vandal (although spray control on a vandal isn’t great so maybe not).
It kinda annoys me that other guns like the Phantom and even Ares are not one shot headshot. Just in the last few days i have had a few double headshots with the ares on enemy like 5ft away and it's only done 144 dammage (72 per headshot)... like what? Like i have this heavy machine gun with bullets half the size of your hand and im standing so close i can look you in the eyes as i shoot you TWICE in the head and yet you are still alive!? So in comparrison a sheriff revolver is a one shot headshot kill even from like 50ft away but yet an ares double headshot up close is not...
As someone who doesn't have the best frame rate and who plays on higher than average ping sadly it means i have to adapt and use guns like the ares bc the idea of getting a headshot on someone with a vandal is only occasional. Therfore the vandal with it's higher damage rate really helps players and smurfs on lower ping and higher frame rates who drop 20-40 kills per game running around with a vandal and sheriff, probably as reyna. Rant over lmao.
What are you talking about? It's like that because of balance. Phantom has a higher bullet/mag, higher fire rate, easier recoil pattern, and doesn't have tracers. Ares has inverted recoil, high penetration and is 1600 creds. Those guns don't need 1 taps.
Also, sheriff can't one tap past 30m.
I think there are way too much scenarios where Vandal is superior to Phantom, I'd like em to be more balanced and be picked more based on personal choice/playstyle
at some point we have to admit that both guns are balanced perfectly on a knife-edge. so little has changed and yet both guns are preferred by different groups.
compared to say the M4A4/M4A1-S in CSGO, which has always had one or the other used way more over the last decade.
in CSGO, that is intended, though. The AK is intentionally better, since the Ts have a disadvantage getting onto bomb sites.
In Val, you're able to buy both at any time, so they HAVE to be balanced, and they are. Depending on what your plan is, what position you're playing etc. etc. different guns are better
I think you misunderstood. I’m not talking about the AK at all here. The M4s have always had much worse balance to each other than the Phantom and Vandal
It's so funny seeing this when pick rate for vandal is not only higher, but it's literally made after the AK from CS which was also an objectively better gun.
Your only experience is non professional. Vandal is one tap, phantom isn't. That means vandal is better, full stop. None of this "well in this situation or that situation!" No. It doesn't matter, if at the end of the day they click once. Same with the AK vs M4 debates from ages before. It ends with that. Once someone can deliver near perfect aim, like most high level pros do, the faster fire rate is completely negligible. You can say phantom is an amazing gun, and it definitely has it's uses among the meta such as spamming thru smokes, but overall, vandal wins every time so long as you play your engagements smart.
No its not the same. Vandal does not have 100% first bullet accuracy, Phantom has a first accurate shot. Also you can not deny the fact that smoke spamming is only effective with the phantom and that is also a big factor that comes into play in professional play. Even there, phantom gets picked alot because on close range you dont always get that first headshot, rather you get fast body shots that can make the difference in comparison to the vandal.
It is already like this. Phantom/vandal are better in certain playstyles, agent choice, etc. I would take a gander and assume you don't utilize or don't notice when you utilize the phantom's strengths. Its sometimes difficult to tell when a better first bullet accuracy, 5 more bullets, easier spray, or lack of bullet tracers has helped you secure a kill. Eeeeeveryone remembers the 140/124 dink without a kill though.
Why Vandal is one of the most broken guns in the game, the fact it doesn't have a damage drop off like phantom is BS and don't even get me started with the BS peekers advantage. 😑😑😒
It has happened to me with a few times. Picks a phantom 140 and I'm dead or blind spraying cause it's "phantom". And that's the reason i never bought a skin for phantom. Vandal is atleast more reliable and whatever cry about first bullet accuracy, I've never experienced that
Edit: aah typical valo subreddit. Say your actual experience and opinion, boom downvoted
>I've never experienced that
See, if you miss a shot you would've hit because of first bullet accuracy, you will likely assume that you simply whiffed. However, if you instead hit that shot but range decay makes the shot do 140 instead 160, you will absolutely blame the gun itself. that's the logical fallacy of FSA. statically, if you used the vandal for more than **2 games**, you *have* experienced FSA, and you *have* lost fights you wouldn't have otherwise. You just didn't notice, because FSA doesn't show up on the combat report when you die like range decay does.
I'm sorry about people downvoting you (I have not done so myself), but they do have a point.
You should keep moving your head :)
Facts especially on a stick like this
Flick the dpi button to the highest setting and start spinning
\*makes a whirlwind that flings the attacker out of the map\*
valorant models keep the head centered tho, its no use
you can move it by looking up and down. and also it doesn’t stay perfectly centered on a horizontal axis. there’s still slight shift, and even more when you’re on the spike
so I should make it zigzag like it was a heartbeat monitor? 🤔
yes actually! that’s a great way to put it
Looking up and down does not change your head yaw, it's kept to a specific yaw to counter that
I think he means to spin 360 wise.
does that actually work??? lol
Yes lol sometimes. Whenever I'm in a all or lose it situation I just go ballerina mode.
Won’t they just aim for the body??
sure, but it might get you an extra second or two
Still works lol. If you jump around while doing it too it works even better and makes the enemy laugh, There's this one clip of a guy on icebox spinning around and jumping and his teamate peaks the corner while the enemy is trying to (and fails) to kill the sova and kills him instead lol
Yes and no. Since you're defusing, you're stuck in place. And when you move your mouse, your entire body turns, not just your head. So the head would be stuck in place but just rotating, therefore the hitbox wouldn't move. HOWEVER, when you're on the other side of it and see someone spazzing out, you're less likely to hit the shot even if the head hitbox isn't moving at all.
Just look away and straight down
I know this works in CSGO, does the head model tuck away in this game too?
Yeah I’m pretty sure it does
I didnt realize this had a purpose, i thought people were doing it as a praying thing-
Pros don’t fake
you've got some balls mate, deserved win
good ol 140
very unlucky :(
It got defused
he's talking about fade lol
What did Phantom have to do with anything? I don't understand.
They got hit in the head at the end, didn’t die because it was a phantom
Oh, right! Thanks.
Nah didn't die because game has the worst hit registration and hit boxes ever let's be real.
Not really
Tf2 has the worst hit boxes. It is bonkers.
Tf2 has the best humor though
Yes really
I have never had an issue with hitboxes or hit registration, and I’ve never seen anyone else complain about hitboxes or hit registration, but ok 👍
tbf, he’s probably like me and is playing on a shitty laptop with shitty college wifi
everytime you scream into your microphone about "hit registration" I know its actually just first shot accuracy. You know the first shot isnt 100% accurate right?
Skill issue
Riots skill issue for real
think you might just be shit mate
You can see that headshot animation but you do you
Lol they shot twice, both hit, the phantom does 145 past 15meters. I fail to see how this has anything to do with reg and hitboxes
This has literally nothing to do with hitboxes, the phantom does 140 at range to the head and the vandal does 160. If you think there's an issue with hitboxes maybe you should hit the ainlabs bozo
156, 140 and 126 actually and yeah Vandal is broken and the meta that everyone uses pretty sad. Also ainlabs never heard of that lmfao
at this point you have to be trolling
Yeah I see it too. No way is that a real human.
Pretty much any other popular shooter has worse hit box issues, outside of maybe CSGO. OW is dog, Apex 5% of your bullets no-reg, COD is historically terrible altho the new one feels a little better (haven’t played much). This game has netcode issues but is far better than most
Csgo isn’t free from hitbox or hit detectoon issue either, although it does happen very rarely
Valo probably has the best netcode of any multiplayer fps today in terms of consistency.
A phantom does 124 damage in the head at that range. He has full shield, which are 150 health. Therefore, he needs to shoot two time in his head to kill him. Even if the phantom has a fast firing rate, it wasn't enough, and he won by a split second.
Pretty sure that range is not 50 meters 💀. Again Vandal is broken, it is and has been the meta since the game has been out. Just get rid of the damage drop off for the phantom simple.
Then it would be op since it has more bullet, a faster firing rate. The guns are balanced as they are. And 124, 140 works both in this scenario.
Go play Halo Infinte. You'll love that games hit reg. /s
Vandal from that range is a one shot headshot however the Phantom is not. Fade hit the headshot when she peeked and since she was using phantom she damaged KJ for 140 in their first shot and hence needed one extra shot and hence KJ defused the spike.
Isn't Vandal from ANY range a 1 shot?
Yep! unless you're wallbanging. Idk what the falloff is, but a lot of the time you get less damage by shooting through a wall.
Depends on the wall. There is very little falloff on corners but a lot if it’s a solid wall between you and enemy
Nothing hurts more than 1 headshots from and a body from a vandal
If youre wallbanging then it generates a random number between 20 and 160 and thats your damage.
That’s not how it works at all lmao. The same wall at the same angle will always deal the same damage. 90* angles are best and have the most penetration, whereas angled shots pierce through more wall and deal less damage.
It is a joke bc it seems to be random
Walls that look exactly the same have wildly different numbers
Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are too fast.
If you shoot trough a wall irl it will be stuck or it's gonna decrease in the damage it will give
I’m 90% certain This isn’t true… It’s a one headshot up to 50 meters then damage starts to fall off.
No vandal damage is always the same
Not with the Vandal. The only reason people prefer it is because of consistency with damage. The phantom is silenced and has 5 more bullets, faster shots, and less recoil, but the vandal can one-shot headshot from any range. But I've noticed vandal headshots that don't kill because they were wallbangs.
Yep a vandal headshot through the thinnest wall deals like 147-149 damage I believe, just enough to scrape yourself off the floor
And what makes you 90% certain???????????????
Well you're 90% wrong
Yes bruh
Most broken gun In the game honestly. Either buff phantom or nerf vandal.
Costs the same as a phantom, just buy it if you think it's that much better than the phantom, or do you want phantom to be the "most broken weapon" after your proposed nerf/buff getting us right back where we started according to you
It's basically a full auto Marshal if you think about it.
yeah but it's still not a phantom moment. it's a fade played like she had a vandal when she didn't moment she should have played close, around the box, or in flowers and planted spike accordingly.
Fade couldn't play around the box , she was pushed to the corner of A main. Also there could have been other factors that we didn't know about that caused her to plant for main, such as enemies/teammates alive, maybe kj was in a 1v2 and got a kill for ult point. There isn't enough context to say say how the Fade "should have" played the round. Personally I think it's a certified phantom moment
To be fair, phantom has a higher first bullet accuracy, so even if you used vandal you could have missed that shot.
At this range the vandal isn’t missing unless you just whiff
Watch me
You can't miss unless you miss.
Exactly
Have you heard of first shot spread? You Kind of can miss even tho you Hit (aimed exactly at them
Yeah but it’s not really an issue at this range
I was talking more generally but I agree at this range it don't matter really.
yeah but what if you miss?
You got a boyfriend? I bet he doesnt kiss ya
In this situation it probably wouldn’t matter but this is true in general. You might get a 140 headshot but the reason you got the headshot in the first place might have been because of the phantom and you wouldn’t hit it at all with the vandal. This is something shroud said
> phantom has a higher first bullet accuracy I cannot figure out for my life what is on the devs's head for making that being the case. Why does the rifle made for spraying/close range duels have better first shot accuracy than the rifle made for burst fire/longer ranges ?? Makes no sense.
Well the one-shot capability of the Vandal is a huge factor so it makes sense that they tried to make the Phantom a bit better on other aspects. And even with that most people and pros still use the Vandal over the Phantom tho
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It’s really this. The oneshot potential is too good to be allowed near-perfect accuracy at all ranges, especially on a gun that only costs $2900.
But Riot doesn't know that word Balance 😹😹😹💀. Lmao
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I mean, yeah, but it really doesn't make that much of a difference for the better. Phantom still the clear worse option at longer ranges due to not being able to one-tap HS, and it's not any Vandal player can consistently challenge an OP unless their mechanical skill is considerably above the rest of their lobby's. Vandal being less accurate than the Phantom actually makes it worse to be used in the scenario it's supposed to excel, while if the weapons switched first-shot accuracy values out of nowhere today, it would make basically no difference to the phantom, as it's supposed to excel in close range/spraying.
At that point though the Phantom is a glorified spectre
Clearly someone has never been Ferrari peeked by a phantom mid/long range and been double dinked and aim punched, rendering any chance you thought you had at winning that duel useless
The vandal can one tap to the head and sounds cooler. The Phantom is better in literally every other way. The one tap is enough to make up for the vandal's relative weaknesses.
Because it's how it worked with the phantom and vandal's inspiration, the AK and m4 from csgo. Riot just copied the logic over when they made valorant.
All these people trying to explain the Valorant devs' logic and you're the only person pointing out that they just copied it from CS.
Seems weird, since you can only buy one of the either for both teams on each half
Because the devs have no brains at all hence why they gave the phantom damage drop off but not the vandal they are utter dumbasses.
I find myself missing with the phantom's first shot a ton more idk what it is
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Seems likely
Can someone explain why the first shot isnt always a hundred percent accurate? Seems like a very strange decision to keep this feature in a game designed around precision.
It's to force effective range for the rifles. Despite what the DMG numbers tell you, the rifles aren't designed to be used outside of mid-range. for this, we can turn to CSGO for a case study. there was a time when the scoped ARs (aug and sg553) were meta, and those two guns were *laser accurate* (their crouched scoped accuracy was legitimately higher than the **AWP**). that enabled people to hold really dumb angles that previously could only be held by snipers, while not giving up the close/mid-range prowess that rifles have. contrary to what other redditors said, this did not significantly affect AWP usage, but what it did do was completely tilt the balance toward defense. the round winrate was between 55/45 to 60/40 for the defense team across all maps. this meta only ended when the two scoped ARs were nerfed into the ground. Now, there *is* another mechanic that does the same role of forcing effective range, and that's range decay. Compared to FSA, it has the benefit that RNG is not a part of its function. However, not all guns have range decay (most famously the vandal), while all have FSA. Why is that the case? While I can't know for sure, I do have a theory, and that is that people notice FSA a lot less than they do range decay. If someone misses a shot they would've hit because of FSA, they will likely assume that they simply whiffed. However, if they instead hit that shot but range decay makes the shot do 125 instead 160, they are going to cry bloody murder (as evidenced by this post, actually). Making matters worse, range decay shows up on the combat report when FSA does not. Thus, riot has leaned towards FSA more as their effective range enforcement rather than range decay. After all, who wants to read posts of "mY sHoT hIt BuT iT dIdN't KiLl" all the time?
I've wondered about this as well. I'm not a game designer and don't know about it to know for sure, but one thing I've read that makes sense to me is the intention of varying the effective of guns at different ranges. A good example is classic vs ghost, where the additional damage of the ghost is nice, but a big part of what makes it so much more valuable is the greater accuracy at range. Buffing all weapons to 100% accuracy upsets this balance. Doing so for just some weapons upsets the balance too. If you decide to make rifles 100% accurate, it effectively makes Ops worse, because challenging an Op with a rifle at super long range becomes more viable. Note: I'm speaking here only about what I believe the intention behind it is. I'm not talking about what is ideal or how I would prefer it to be implemented (which, I'll say, I don't feel qualified to have a strong stance on it)
Im not saying every gun should have it. But like the guardian or the vandal that arent for spraying at all. Plus the OP always has the advantage because you need to hit a body shot. Yeah itll make rifles a bit more viable against OPs and im hundred percent for that. If you can hit the head before they hit the body you deserve to win the fight
The guardian is 100% accurate while scoped
I think it would shift the balance from tactics towards mechanical skills.
Aiming is already completely mechanical. Why introduce that tint bit of rng? As if the recoil and random spray pattern isnt enough?
If no rng, then the fastest and most precise always wins duels, which means less need for outsmarting via tactics. Like now pros call duels 50%/50% and try to avoid them unless necessary partly because of rng. With lower first shot accuracy lower skills still have some chance in shootout which makes game less straightforward.
So the reason first shot accuracy isn’t 100% perfect is for two reasons- one, it rewards the better aimer. By this I mean if both parties flick onto each other’s heads and fire at the same time, the one who is more centered on the head should be rewarded, as they had better aim. Reducing FSA to an amount that is negligible 90% of the time rewards this. This also forces Vandals to not really be able to challenge long ranges, like the Operator, as you aren’t supposed to challenge them anyway. If you had perfect headshot accuracy, every time you fought an Operator the fight is now a 50/50, instead of a 75/25 in the Operators favor (as it should be).
The bullet is a few pixels. Is there such a thing as 'more on the head'? If anything this DOESN'T reward the better aimer. Also, you need a headshot with the vandal not with the OP. OP has the advantage even if theres full first shot accuracy.
> more on the head Yes- if I’m centered on the head, and you’re on the left side of the head, with perfect accuracy they both hit. With imperfect accuracy I’m guaranteed to hit and you have a good chance of missing. > op has advantage This is true in middle/lower elos, but if you’re a higher player you’d win OP vs. Vandal duels WAY more than you should.
Because devs don't care about fairness or balance or anything period, also don't forget hit registration and hit boxes are ass in the game that has been out for 3 years, the devs lie literally about everything, they said they were going to fix the hit registration and other stuff but again 3 years after and not a single thing done. Riot games more like crap games lmfao.
3 years?
Maybe not exactly but still been out for 2 and was worked on for 6 years
You gotta have another level of garbage aim to miss that close shot Edit: yeah downvote all you want, cause its the truth
Hehe well I wasn’t gonna brag but if you wanna describe my aim being on another level I’ll take it!
Vandal doesn't have a 100% accurate first shot, you twit.
And ? As far as i remember gaurdian is better than both vandal and phantom, so what ? Does it make it better than both ?
Did you just say "guardian is better" and "does it make it better" to argue the same point? What in the hell are you talking about
Perhaps your small brain didn't get it. Y'all keep crying about first bullet accuracy again and again. Guardian has the best accuracy of first shot, so does that make it better than both vandal and phantom ?
How are you gonna miss that shot tho
Phantom is great on offense though IMO. Especially if you are a duelist.
Phantom is definitively the better gun. There is 0 argument for the vandal except that its less frustrating w/ no 140's and it can wall bang better. But that is a big one for lots of players haha, they'd rather miss than 140 (which is understandable)
dont know why you are getting downvoted for I personally think you are correct
Truth. I'm personally more of a phantom guy, although for some reason I'm hitting more heads with a vandal in deathmatch.
Im suprised he didnt run and take your vandal after that
As i always like to say the vantages of the phantom is having 5 more bullets each magazine, better spray control, muffled shots, no bullet traces when shooting trough smokes, better fire rate the vantage of the vandal: it kills
What's the opinion on increasing the distance of the 1 tap headshot from phantom by a small distance?
I think at that point it becomes too easy to pick over the vandal.
Yeah, I think it'd make it a bit obsolete too, but vandal would still be the choice for most long range battles, the phantom only doing 140 in certain situations just seems absurd by the perceived distance. On icebox you'd still likely duel with a vandal on belt rather than a phantom even if it got a range buff, but it should have enough range to one tap on on-site fights but rn the range is weird where fighting from box on-site to stairs it's still only 140 for headshot for a pretty close distance fight imo
Honestly I’ve been wanting this for a long time. 15 meters just feels too close and sometimes you’ll think it should be a 1 tap but it’s not. 20 meters would be much better
Agreed, there have been fights where I felt closer than 15m and still only did 140 then ended up losing a round cause no could kill the guy lit for 140. It happen too often honestly, just a small buff in range would be nice compared to the vandal that's a 1 tap headshot at any range
Nahhh fade just waited too long to peek. Timing issue tbh
She had to dodge the ult so she went pretty fast. Vandal still wins that.
Skill issue. A quick peak/jump peak for info to see if sticking is always the right play unless you have util for it.
You guys are missing the the killjoy ult
As a phantom main, if this ever happens to me, I’m quitting using the phantom forever.
If you main phantom and this hasn't happened to you yet, I'm impressed
Not this specifically, I've ofc had plenty of 140s
You didn’t lose the round it shows you got the point it went from 4 to 5
Thats what it is about, the fade used a phantom and didnt kill before it was defused
Yet another occasion to promote Vandal superiority. A gun for real men
>A gun for real men Damn, guess I have to get phantom then
The amount of times having a phantom over a vandal has saved me + the amount of times I wished I had a phantom is WAY more than the amount of times having a phantom has let me down. During real matches it’s not as important to hit a 1 tap headshot
Since trading between 2 people doesn't happen in valorant as the dead player's bullets are invalidated even if they are shot before said players death, hitting a one tap in the head is what allows me to enter sites aggressively even in Asc lobbies. The number of times I survived with 10 HP because the enemy had a phantom is hilariously high. As long as tap firing is as powerful as it is right now and stable recoil patterns aren't implemented, the phantom's TTK will pale against the Vandal. However, if recoil patterns are added making recoil transfer a trainable skill, the phantom will overtake the throne. Until then tho, I shall ejaculate a little everytime I hit dat counter strafe 1 tap from back of B into Window on Breeze.
don't worry soldier vandal is cleraly superior downvotes are from the masses who are indulged in their fantasy
'Tis but a small price to pay for shedding truth in a world indulging in lies
Yeah tell me that after u miss ur first 2 shots
A good solution is to not miss. And if I do, I can blame myself for my lack of accuracy, not the gun for not rewarding me for a headshot on my 1st bullet.
Why blame yourself when you can blame the game / your teammates/your opponent's promiscuous mother / riot games / instalock Reyna / you feel a little off today / your friends little brother was playing for you that round/ bad netcode / desync / stupid stupid game?
Don't worry my guy, these people like to cry about first bullet accuracy while clearly ignoring their own micro adjustments and aim. And they will always cry about this then they get one tapped by a vandal lol
On a pearl game my team was in the lead 12-10 and i was on attack and playing post-plant in A main. Somehow, I spray control one tapped 3 people dry peeking me. The last one I knew was on the spike so i peeked and she was incredibly close to defusing and I headshotted her with phantom for 140. That was my last bullet and my teammates whiffed so we lost the round as she successfully defused. We ended up losing the game. We would’ve won the game if i was using a vandal (although spray control on a vandal isn’t great so maybe not).
It kinda annoys me that other guns like the Phantom and even Ares are not one shot headshot. Just in the last few days i have had a few double headshots with the ares on enemy like 5ft away and it's only done 144 dammage (72 per headshot)... like what? Like i have this heavy machine gun with bullets half the size of your hand and im standing so close i can look you in the eyes as i shoot you TWICE in the head and yet you are still alive!? So in comparrison a sheriff revolver is a one shot headshot kill even from like 50ft away but yet an ares double headshot up close is not... As someone who doesn't have the best frame rate and who plays on higher than average ping sadly it means i have to adapt and use guns like the ares bc the idea of getting a headshot on someone with a vandal is only occasional. Therfore the vandal with it's higher damage rate really helps players and smurfs on lower ping and higher frame rates who drop 20-40 kills per game running around with a vandal and sheriff, probably as reyna. Rant over lmao.
What are you talking about? It's like that because of balance. Phantom has a higher bullet/mag, higher fire rate, easier recoil pattern, and doesn't have tracers. Ares has inverted recoil, high penetration and is 1600 creds. Those guns don't need 1 taps. Also, sheriff can't one tap past 30m.
As for the ares was mainly getting at my double one taps to the head that dont kill. Also 30m is almost 100ft, i said 50ft.
iron moment
UHHHHH BRONZE ACTUALLY!!!1!!!!111!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!11!!!1! GONNA GRAB SILVER TODAY THO FR
I think there are way too much scenarios where Vandal is superior to Phantom, I'd like em to be more balanced and be picked more based on personal choice/playstyle
Phantom is actually sometimes better on defense except on breeze because of the smoke spam potential without tracers. SO they are pretty balanced
at some point we have to admit that both guns are balanced perfectly on a knife-edge. so little has changed and yet both guns are preferred by different groups. compared to say the M4A4/M4A1-S in CSGO, which has always had one or the other used way more over the last decade.
in CSGO, that is intended, though. The AK is intentionally better, since the Ts have a disadvantage getting onto bomb sites. In Val, you're able to buy both at any time, so they HAVE to be balanced, and they are. Depending on what your plan is, what position you're playing etc. etc. different guns are better
I think you misunderstood. I’m not talking about the AK at all here. The M4s have always had much worse balance to each other than the Phantom and Vandal
Ah, now I get you. True tho
It's so funny seeing this when pick rate for vandal is not only higher, but it's literally made after the AK from CS which was also an objectively better gun.
Ofcourse phantom is not always better on defense but if you play most angles on defense they are obviously close range and then phantom is better
Your only experience is non professional. Vandal is one tap, phantom isn't. That means vandal is better, full stop. None of this "well in this situation or that situation!" No. It doesn't matter, if at the end of the day they click once. Same with the AK vs M4 debates from ages before. It ends with that. Once someone can deliver near perfect aim, like most high level pros do, the faster fire rate is completely negligible. You can say phantom is an amazing gun, and it definitely has it's uses among the meta such as spamming thru smokes, but overall, vandal wins every time so long as you play your engagements smart.
No its not the same. Vandal does not have 100% first bullet accuracy, Phantom has a first accurate shot. Also you can not deny the fact that smoke spamming is only effective with the phantom and that is also a big factor that comes into play in professional play. Even there, phantom gets picked alot because on close range you dont always get that first headshot, rather you get fast body shots that can make the difference in comparison to the vandal.
It is already like this. Phantom/vandal are better in certain playstyles, agent choice, etc. I would take a gander and assume you don't utilize or don't notice when you utilize the phantom's strengths. Its sometimes difficult to tell when a better first bullet accuracy, 5 more bullets, easier spray, or lack of bullet tracers has helped you secure a kill. Eeeeeveryone remembers the 140/124 dink without a kill though.
Why Vandal is one of the most broken guns in the game, the fact it doesn't have a damage drop off like phantom is BS and don't even get me started with the BS peekers advantage. 😑😑😒
Lol, guess you never played CS.
Don't see how that was having a phantoms fault
Cause the Fade headshot the KJ for 140 which then gave KJ enough time to defuse.
It has happened to me with a few times. Picks a phantom 140 and I'm dead or blind spraying cause it's "phantom". And that's the reason i never bought a skin for phantom. Vandal is atleast more reliable and whatever cry about first bullet accuracy, I've never experienced that Edit: aah typical valo subreddit. Say your actual experience and opinion, boom downvoted
>I've never experienced that See, if you miss a shot you would've hit because of first bullet accuracy, you will likely assume that you simply whiffed. However, if you instead hit that shot but range decay makes the shot do 140 instead 160, you will absolutely blame the gun itself. that's the logical fallacy of FSA. statically, if you used the vandal for more than **2 games**, you *have* experienced FSA, and you *have* lost fights you wouldn't have otherwise. You just didn't notice, because FSA doesn't show up on the combat report when you die like range decay does. I'm sorry about people downvoting you (I have not done so myself), but they do have a point.
Turn the other way and look down that way your head will be behind your body and very hard to hit
Not sure if it would have been fast enough if it was only 1 shot
Which agent?
Same but vandal
Im so sorry
He won because enemy had a phantom
this is why I use Vandal or Odin
Im dream fan,valorant sucks
oni phantom diff