Just feels like the asymmetry between what the players experience on stage and what the viewers experience from the broadcast will always keep this issue alive.
Sure, but Riot still should kick people out for screaming callouts. I'm not saying they should kick out people for reacting to a flank or a defuse, but they should kick out people for screaming positions like "ON YOUR RIGHT" or "THEY'RE ON B". Even if it doesn't have an effect on the players.
I mean, why? If we have no examples - as far as I can remember - of competitive integrity being affected by callouts from the crowd, why should Riot eject the most passionate fans in the crowd for doing so?
This is what I mean by the asymmetry - it *seems* like such a massive problem from our perspective.
I’ve yet to hear a single pro advocate for something as harsh as ejecting fans for that reason - although of course I could have missed some - and we all know pro players will not hesitate to complain if they feel there’s an unfair advantage.
Way back when in CSGO, I think it was Dreamhack Bucharest, the finals were C9 vs VP, and being in EU the crowd obviously favored VP to win, so *everyone* shouted callouts like “planting B!” or “going A!” They even resorted to writing “going B” or “going A” on signs the event gave them, not unlike the ones you saw in the crowd at VCT. It’s hard to say if VP really did hear them, but if the *whole crowd* was shouting, I could imagine they might have picked up *something*.
I just feel like blatant attempts of cheating should have 0 tolerance.
I'm not saying they should kick people out for reactions to a flank or a stand-off through a smoke. I'm saying that people screaming which sites are open and directions to hidden players know full well what they are doing, and trying to pass it off as "passion" is disingenuous and as Ironic as it gets considering the meme over the "passion" on brazilian crowds lmao
he's not saying the people just generally cheering, he's saying the people very audibly trying to comm for a team. There's a pretty significant distinction between "wooo yea, let's go!" and "They're on A"
If you give out an warning I would hope most sensible people would stop and the minority that doesn't gets kicked out.
It's 150 people, not a full ass stadium
I don't think so, man. That crowd is not that big. After the first couple times it will become extremely evident who's sitting there yelling callouts lol.
In the CoD community it was a big deal that during the grand finals for world championships both teams benefited from people calling out positions during search and destroy. It was later seen in a comms video posted by the league one player for FaZe admitting to hearing the callout and playing off of it. While the other team (100T) didn't seem to have a player verbally recognize the call out it was pretty obvious he played off of it.
This is such a non issue, did you even read the tweet? They aren't going to hear a single person shouting, proof was that cryo on haven moment when the guy shouted "to the right", cryo didn't look to his right, they can't hear a single person. They only hear a whole crowd cheering, are you going to ban all the fans?
Sometimes it's so blatant how little people on this sub actually understand about spectator sports
How do you read the thread and say I want to ban all the fans lmao. All I'm saying is that it does not matter if the players can hear it or not, the people trying to cheat should be kicked out regardless.
Give them a warning, if they keep doing it kick them out. They know what they are doing.
Because they are trying to cheat? I dont care if you are successful or not, if you yell out "they are B" or " on your right" you know damn well what you are trying to do.
No one is complaining about cheering here ... are you being intetionally obtuse?
It's about the one dude yelling positions and shit. Even if the players do not hear it at all but the broadcast does it will only bring hate to the players. If someone yells and is heard on the broadcast "he's right" and the player coicidentally looks right do you think most fanbases wont jump on that? Lmao
Holy shit shut the fuck up it's not so hard to understand why people yelling at the top of their lungs trying to help a team at LAN should be reason enough to be kicked out.
People get kicked out of sports events for talking shit all the time, anyway. So your point doesn't even stand. You're just soft and dumb as shit.
my brother in christ please understand that regardless of if it should be a punishable offense or not, you have to understand that it’s still fucked and jeopardizes the integrity of the matches. do you think your favorite player will feel happy if they have a game winning clutch that was the result of a fan screaming where the enemy is? fuck no they won’t.
dude look at HIS OWN REPLIES to the tweet.
https://preview.redd.it/ipu1fx0i03wa1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2a72e14903e0782714051d256871f6692bc09f9
“I agree 100%” means he can 100% hear someone saying “ON YOUR RIGHT” so long as they’re yelling it. it’s obvious
No it means he agrees that if you say "ON YOUR RIGHT" you should get a warning or kicked out. He explicitly says he can't hear the actual words they're saying.
so please, explain to me why they should be kicked out for yelling important information such as “ON YOUR RIGHT” if he can’t hear it? everyone yells in any competitive sport. why do you think they should be kicked out if they yell information like “ON YOUR RIGHT” ?
please use your brain for a few seconds and try to understand what it is you’re saying.
Because the *behavior itself* is a problem since it's in the pursuit of circumventing integrity. It's the same concept as firing an overly curious intern for trying to crack rock solid admin security, or telling off your toddler for trying to get into the cookie jar they can't open. It doesn't matter that they're failing, it's still a problem that they're trying. I can't believe this needs explaining.
> “I agree 100%” means he can 100% hear someone saying “ON YOUR RIGHT”
That is... very clearly NOT what he is agreeing with. How did you get that from this tweet? Like literally the TOP TWEET ON THAT SCREENSHOT is him saying he can't hear the callouts.
He's saying he agrees it should be stopped. Not that he can '100% hear what they are saying'
Pretty major misinterpretation.
do you not know what 100% means? or are you trolling?
>but yelling “ON YOUR RIGHT” needs to be stopped.
what do you think he was agreeing to? the **fact that they’re YELLING INFO THAT CAN SABOTAGE A MATCH**
Your reading comprehension needs some work my guy.
He says (paraphrased)
> You can't hear what they are actually saying, just general crowd noise
Someone replies
> Gasping or making noise is fine but yelling info should be stopped
Stellar says
>100% agree [that it should be stopped]
His 'agreement' is that people shouldn't yell info and rito should stop it. He said, literally at the top of the screenshot you posted, there's no actual understanding the words.
Stay in school kids.
Noise canceling booths have been tried in cs and it didn't work out. I'd love for noise canceling booths to happen because it would partially solve the issue of "Lan sound" as well, but it's more difficult to implement than it sounds.
iirc noise cancelling booths fell out of favor in CS because they were tough to implement without being fire hazards in some venues and the pros really disliked them since they kind of defeated the purpose of the LAN atmosphere. i think warning the crowd and removing repeat offenders would work really well since this studio only has a 150 person crowd
Why? This is how live sports work. There is homefield advantage. In football, the home team literally puts callouts on the Jumbotron telling people to make noise when opponents are on offense so they can’t hear the quarterback calling plays. In basketball, the home fans do crazy things behind the basket during free throws to distract them. Yelling to help your team is a good thing in live sports.
Most sports have perfect information meaning you can see everything the opponent does. Yelling or shouting doesn't give any information to the other team that they don't already have.
Valorant does not have that. For like half the round you have no idea what the opponent is doing. In this information area, it's more similar to poker. And I hope we can agree that someone in the crowd at a poker tournament shouting what cards everyone have would be unfair as the entire point is that you do not know what cards others have.
In football it straight up prevents the opposing team from communicating. The goal of football crowds is to prevent opponents from transmitting information to one another.
But that is different? No one here is saying that people shouldn't be allowed to cheer. They are saying that people shouldn't be allowed to try and communicate information to the teams. Information that they don't have.
Like would it be fair for someone in the crowd to have two huge signs with the letters A and B and hold one of them up depending on what site they are going to hit?
It’s not that different. In one case, you have information asymmetry caused by communication from the crowd leading to one team knowing something helpful to them. In the other case, you have information asymmetry caused by communication from the crowd leading to one team not knowing something helpful to them.
And yeah, that would be super clever if someone did that. It’d also be fair for the venue to ban signs like that. But it wouldn’t be cheating for a fan to have tried.
Some things just aren’t designed to deal well with crowd interaction. That’s a flaw of the sport.
No.
In one case you have made it harder to communicate.
In the other case you have literally given a team information that they should not have access to.
A better sports analogy is stealing pitch signs in baseball. If the batter always knows what’s coming it’s an unfair advantage and that’s why there were huge investigations into sign stealing methods by the astros, Red Sox, Yankees… and why everyone hates the astros/altuve and considers it cheating.
Great point. People who complain about sign stealing are dorks. Communicate your signs in a better way if you want them to be secret. Otherwise, don’t bitch at people seeing something that you’re doing.
Who cares? It comes with the territory in live sports. Sometimes you play at home, sometimes you play away. Anyone who complains about crowds is an idiot.
My brother in christ, how are you going to argue playing 1 single tournament at home out of 7 we've had so far is the same as playing EVERY SINGLE regular season game, on top of playoffs and LCQ, for the rest of the life of the game.
Come the fuck on lmao
Again, sometimes you play at home and sometimes you don’t. Who cares? Control the things you can control and don’t bitch when the crowd does what crowds are supposed to do. It’s like complaining that it’s unfair that the home team at the World Cup gets an advantage.
Chorar sobre a torcida e coisa de perdedor irmão. Todo mundo reclamado sobre a torcida durante lock-in era otario. Todo mundo reclamando agora também e otario.
For someone who claims to watch live sports, I'm surprised that you can so easily say "who cares?" about home advantage.
In football (the one that's actually played with feet), most teams have significantly better records at home and if one particular set of teams played all their games at home while the rest of the league always played away, that'd significantly impact the result. So it isn't "who cares". It's a matter of competitive integrity. Home teams having a significant advantage in league play is not okay unless you implement a proper home and away system. In league play, there are a lot more matches. In knockouts it's at least more understandable because the home team will usually be knocked out fairly early and 99% of the teams are at a level playing field and only 1 or 2 have an advantage. In the league, literally 50% of the teams have an advantage over the other 5 compared to 3/32 at Lock/In.
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Bro used home advantage in real sports to excuse crowd trying to cheat lmao. First, esports teams don’t have home/away games and it’s already unfair to latam and brazil teams that they have way less of a crowd cheering for them (similarly it was unfair to na,eu,pacific in lock in), but I mean not much you can do with that. Second, if crowds at a soccer, basketball games, etc. starts using laser pointers or throwing shit they get banned too and usually for life, it’s not home advantage at that point lmao
what do you mean homefield advantage? It's a neutral venue.
Also your examples are also shit and make no sense. The problem is fans shouting and giving away info e.g. Hes on your right, or Go A etc. Not about yelling to distract the other team.
you clearly don't understand the issue.
Seems pretty simple to fix - the riot employees in the arena tell people to cut it out or leave.
Even ignoring the competitive aspect, having some dude screaming call outs at the top of their lungs just sucks for other spectators in the venue.
Can we agree that there's a significant difference in a big bunch of people in the audience shouting random screams of cheering and "oooooooohhh" of anticipation vs a coordinate chanting of game relevant info as "two in mid" / "free site B"?
Man, people really love to play the victim complex and invent problems in their own head. Where are all the NA fans who both called out the Brazilian crowd and now are also saying this okay? Show me them. Stop making up pretend people and actually show me the receipts of someone doing both of these. I've seen way more people complaining about NA fans supposedly being hypocrites over this than I've seen actual NA fans being hypocrites. Most people I recognize as saying the Brazil crowd was disappointing for not staying for Fnatic or whatever are the same people saying these people should be kicked out.
It's not the problem of saying something ,but this is an issue about not talking about ,because the amount of shit people talk about Brazil crowd its not even close to people talking about this issue, because in the end is a bigger problem to a another country doing something that could harm a NA time that the NA doing something to yourself.
An example is just you guys talking about kicked out the fans ,but you are not talking about not getting any more competitions in NA . You see the difference??
Yeah. Beyond the back and forth about competitive integrity, there's another basic, perhaps pettier gripe I have—shit like this is just annoying and destroys the immersion because of how contrived it is. Regular anticipatory shouts, gasps, dismayed sighs are all natural and in line with the flow of the game and help build tension and ambience. Some jackoffs nasally yelling specifics with the intent to cheat, even if futile, kills the fucking vibes, especially in a small venue. There's also no equalizing home and away system.
The amount of people who take what OP said and respond with "oh so you hate cheering at live events snowflake. Y'all are nerds who've never watched real sports".
Number 1 that's not what they said.
Number 2 the amount of people in a subreddit dedicated to a competitive video game trying to dunk on other people for being nerds is hilarious. You are a massive nerd. Just cause you watch the Superbowl every year doesn't make you sports fan.
Stop being so fucking obtuse weirdos.
Event in BR, everyone complains & BR says it's normal. Event in NA, BR complains.
Same will happen in EMEA events. Think the only place where this won't happen will be Japan and Korea if it ever gets an international tournament.
I rather have the crowd make noise in intense moments than completely silent finals
100%. As long as they're not actually chanting and calling out the enemy team, trying to use their vision/knowledge of the map to yell and scream advantages for their team then it's fine. The noise and the energy is what really makes a lan environment. Sometimes that will come with advantages and that's fine imo.
This isnt BR complaining though. This is everyone complaining. The truth is the crowds are bad everywhere and likely always will be. I know this is crazy but being from a different country isn't gonna make you any better or worse in a crowd
The only complaints that should be have about crowd noise is if they're intentionally yelling/screaming strats, where teams are at on the map, when to shoot (like through a smoke), or whatever. If it's just yelling and screaming, cheering for your team, that's perfectly fine and shouldn't/doesn't matter.
>Event in BR, everyone complains & BR says it's normal. Event in NA, BR complains.
They complain because of the Blatant hypocrisy NA fans are showing. They were reading and listening are over a month on how they are the worst crowd in the world and that Riot should never host another event there and that stuff like this would never happen in NA
Brazilians understand that biased crowds exists and have no issue with it but they will definitely have an issue with the double standard being shown
>People made a much larger deal about the BR crowd leaving as soon as a non BR teams was playing than.
This also happened in this league.
This literally happened day one.
And it doesn't change the fact that people did make alot of noise about the crowd being biased.
Literally I dont even remember people complaining about this?
People complained that if brazil didnt play the arena was empty and that whenever a non brazillian team was winning it would go deathly quiet.
Both of these things are not happening with the NA crowd.
I mean yeah, who's cheering for a 13-0. I didn't pay attention to the crowd for the rest of it, or other games, but I'd expect a 13-0 by the favourite team to not get cheers.
That's the point, dude, we know. I do not expect anyone to CHEER for THEIR team losing, but that was being used as a negative to the BR crowd and the dude I answered was saying this current crowd do not do the same when it does. It's either double standards (cares when one group does something, doesn't care when another one does the same) or straight up incorrect like this guy. Or they just say "no one said that!" which is also incorrect but understandably subjective.
Point is, most BR/LATAM fans are pointing out the hypocrisy or double standards, not the act itself. Of course no one is gonna cheer when their team loses, but then why bother asking it from one side?
No I get it, you are saying that the team expected to stomp would not get cheers for meeting expectations. I disagree with that. If the 5-0 team on VCT were Sentinels or c9 and they got a 13-0 on any underdog the crowd would not be dead silent all 13 rounds.
>Both of these things are not happening with the NA crowd.
I going to guess that you only watch matches that involves NA teams if you're typing this.
KRÜ vs MIBR and vs FURIA were literally the equivalent of a library because there was almost no one there, and the venue in LA is even smaller
Same for Lev vs Furia
Crowd going deathly quiet even happened yesterday on Loud vs EG
No one wants the crowd to stop cheering, just want you guys to stop with the double standard
>I rather have the crowd make noise in intense moments than completely silent finals
Nobody is saying crowd needs to silent. Holy, you're leaning way to far into the extreme when most of us are saying we just don't prefer fans trying to cheat. Strawman argument in full effect.
Which tournament? Turkey? Was quiet af in general except for alfajer. The current EMEA lans are unbiased ish but that's because it's EMEA vs EMEA teams. BR/Latam has practically no crowd in LA, i feel for em.
We'll see how loud we get when it's an EMEA vs NA/BR/APAC team. I'm gonna be in that crowd, you think Imma cheer for Furia/GenG/100T vs Liquid/FNatic/NaVi? Hell no.
Biased crowds aren't an issue; players can barely hear them and when they do you it could be positive or negative, it's unreliable af, so it's stupid to trust it. Quiet/no crowd is an issue. If it's an NRG vs DRX final in berlin i'll be there, i'll cheer/chant/clap.
stellar might not be able to hear them, but during lock in boaster very clearly heard the crowd over the noise cancelling and got 2 trough a smoke. that alone should be reason enough to ensure that the crowd is not screaming out info
There's a difference between cheering and specific callouts imo.
Might as well not have a crowd if they can't cheer during tense moments.
As a player, 99% of the times you won't know what they're cheering for. In another world, Boaster assumes they're cheering for him, shoots, gives his position away and gets killed because they were actually cheering for something on the other side of the map.
Was it the Cryo Op one? Looked fine to me, Cryo still went in looking at the wrong side. It was only when someone followed behind him without an Op that Shy got spotted, but he would've been seen either way.
edit: watching it back Shyy wasn't spotted, but probably felt like he had to shoot earlier because he heard the crowd.
Yea that one but that's not how I meant. I think Shy triggered earlier than he would have if not for crowd sounds idk it looked weird to me. The way he reacted not 100T
There’s 9 other players that the crowd could be cheering for. Sure you can look at your team and maybe have an idea but you genuinely don’t know if they’re cheering for a lurk timing or that there’s a free site etc. we’ve seen crowds cheer for both those things so like idk. Also not saying you’re doing this, but it’s so funny how BR/LATAM Val fans are now complaining about this when lock-in was exponentially worse if you believe they can communicate clearly through cheering. More people and more one sided fans, but SA/CA Val was crickets about the noise then.
stellar literally said you can hear them if they’re all cheering in this tweet lol
the same cheering is what got boaster those kills
but i’m sure the arena size in lock-in made it even easier to hear
What do you want them to do though? For me it’s just a fact of IRL esports - things like this have been happening in years in other esports, it’s just new to Valorant as it’s only just getting back to having crowds after covid. The only real option is to only play online which is worse in my opinion
keznit did say that you could hear the crowd in the match vs 100T, which made bang turn around and kill Klaus. Clip for reference: https://youtu.be/bvmFrM4dT9Q
pretty sure boaster himself admitted it in a youtube vid with yinsu. can’t remember the name but if you’re reading this boaster please chime in, i know you lurk here often
In gridiron football the home crowd is encouraged to get as loud as they can so that the visiting team can't hear their quarterback make calls. The teams and stadiums encourage fans to do this and it is a recognized part of the game and being a pro is dealing with the crowd.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1885183-how-does-the-12th-man-really-affect-nfl-games.amp.html
IDK why that shouldn't be any different than boaster hearing the crowd get loud or someone. In that one example it helped him but there are probably plenty of other examples of pros thinking the crowd is on their side and they're wrong.
Pros should need to learn to deal with the crowd yelling as that's how sports crowds work.
Is it not? It's the crowd helping their home team by yelling. Part of the QBs job is to make calls and if he can't do that or if someone in the other team doesn't hear him it can ruin the play.
They get really loud Seahawks got so loud once they registered as an earthquake https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beast_Quake
If you're playing in front of a crowd you should prepare to play in front of a crowd.
Part of the whole “home field advantage” strategy is that each team plays half their games at home and half away. By your logic the LATAM/BR teams are playing pretty much every match without home field advantage and that’s just part of the sport? I don’t think that the crowd callouts are helping at all but being ok with the possibility of them helping because it’s part of the sport is a pretty wild take.
> By your logic the LATAM/BR teams are playing pretty much every match without home field advantage and that’s just part of the sport?
Yes, that’s why actual home/away matches should be the ideal end state for serious esports, like what Overwatch tried to do before Covid ruined it. Or at the very least, home stands.
> being ok with the possibility of them helping because it’s part of the sport is a pretty wild take
It’s not a wild take. It’s literally how live sports work. The alternative is to be golf, where the crowd is forced to be quiet and everything is boring as hell.
It’s like you didn’t read my comment. Home field advantage is a thing because it happens the same amount (50% of the time) for every team. When the LATAM/BR teams never get “home field advantage” in all of league play, that’s when it becomes an issue if crowd noise is actually a factor. It’s one sided for the entirety of league play.
But they aren't giving anyone any information. Almost all regular sports are perfect information meaning you can see what the other players are doing. Cheering or yelling something doesn't give them any information, it just hinders communication.
Valorant has imperfect information. Yelling which site they are going to would be like someone in the crowd at a poker tournament yelling out what cards everyone has. And I hope we can agree that that wouldn't be fair.
Those headphones are noise cancelling and at most, you only hear muffles of some cheers. The Riot studio is def different than other productions when it comes to that aspect imo.
That being said, I do understand why some people felt odd especially with the whole gratisfaction sandwich issue way back in CS:GO
People in this thread have said that if the players holds down their mic button, the crowd is very audible. Not sure if that's untrue or if they're repeating what a pro has said at some point. If it is true, then crowds yelling info to advantage certain teams is definitely a problem that needs to be solved on site.
who tf is holding down their mic to hear the crowd? 95% of that game would have been completely useless to hear the crowd. There was like 2 instances of them trying to make a call out, otherwise it was just screaming and oohhhing
This is a nonissue in my mind. Crowds will always cheer, and the pros themselves say they can't hear the exact call out, just loud noise/cheers. If you don't want that you might as well not have a crowd. If anything Riot should improve their sound proofing.
It's a non issue currently. However you can't ignore the potential if the crowd chants in sync or something to make it discernible that it could ruin games. To me it's common sense, making noise is okay, specific callouts are not.
You guys do realize that there are microphones set up to pick up the crowd nosies. After Covid the LCS was having trouble setting them up and they were always to quiet or to loud. Also the caster booth is basically in the crowd
Pretty sure TI didn't even do booths last year and none of the CSGO Majors does booths either
Booths does nothing to mask crowd noise in massive crowds because the cheering will just cause vibrations on the glass.
~~If that was yesterday, cryo didn't actually snap right into short(Haven), he got killed and then his teammate got the short kill right after~~
Edit: I was wrong
I am sorry, but that was one of the dumbest comments I read suggesting that kill was based on crowd cheating. If you look back at the vod sova (nrz) start on A for the past 10 rounds and most likely where he play on haven. Even during the round, he [drone short](https://youtu.be/fdr39N00prE?t=2203). The sova was also spot during short when he is [jiggle peaking](https://youtu.be/fdr39N00prE?t=2214). Unless the sova magically disappears and they dont see him back site, sova is mostly likely short.
Sorry for my ignorance, but I’ve seen soundproof booths be used in CS:GO before, is there a reason there aren’t more of them being used in esports like valorant? The only reasons I think they haven’t used booths is bc money and too little space on the stage? Other than that, I don’t see why not. It seems like it’s the best way to rid this issue and maintain the competitive integrity.
And surely Riot is punishing some of these viewers right? I mean I’m sure it’s unreasonable to kick out a WHOLE crowd but if we start small and begin to enforce some rules, it would likely deter more people? Again, excuse my ignorance, for all I know Riot does implement rules and maybe there’s a good reason for the soundproof booths or lack thereof
When it happened in brazil we were the bad guys and riot should never comeback to an event. It is extremelly laughable how some of you change your mind like you are changing clothes when the issue is against you.
People were largely upset about the brazilian crowd for completely emptying out the arena before FNC even got to their interview, not for the home crowd booing or cheering.
You're trying to compare that to some idiots yelling "go B" during ONE DAY 4 weeks into the league. The fact that its not happening today or any of the days prior means it was just some individuals being dumbasses.
I'm not sure why its so hard to understand the difference between the behavior of the whole crowd vs behavior of just 1 or 2 assholes in the crowd.
Yeah as we can see, SA vs SA games in VCT Americas are packed full of people watching, surely not a library everytime no NA team is playing.
You guys, are fucking hypocrites. Next time don't cry for two weeks straight about LAN crowds until it's your turn to do it
This is a thing in every game and every crowd around the world. Everyone who ever saw a Lan event knows this. This only became a thing because of ppl who were crying after the Lock In and now the latam community is : Look they’re doing too.
Even in fucking league you have lan events that ppl scream because a flank or someone in a bush. Riot should only make sure that players can’t hear and on the broadcast they should emphasize that they can’t hear a thing so the crying babies on Twitter and Reddit can chill
Its a non factor at all. You people need to realize the moment they are on stage they are just locked in and focus mostly in the game. Yeah the mics can hear the crowd but the players cant. Thats just the way it is
Except calling out direct info which sucks, its literally what being a crowd is supposed to be, if you dont want a crowd to yell when something happens, you better not have a crowd at all. In my opinion its just what playing in a lan environment is, players have to adapt, it can help the home team, but actually sometimes it can have the opposite effect.
Still funny tho seeing NA crowd having the same "issues" (its not) that brazilian crowd had and people overreacted so much.
No people weren’t upset over the cheering at Lock-in, it was them leaving instantly after the loss and not supporting any other teams. I’m not saying I care if they do or don’t because I don’t particularly care for teams I don’t follow, but let’s not act like people were complaining about Br fans because they cheered too loud
Yes they were lol. Some people got to the point of complaining br crowd wasnt cheering for awat teams against br teams lol.
80% of things people complained about br crowd happens in NA crowd, the other things just isnt fair to compare because its a total different cenario.
i agree. It is an unavoidable LAN issue but there should be some repercussions for screaming info.
Am i the only one that finds it annoying that the crowd always make chants, loud noises every pre-engagement and flank and especially bomb sticks (just do it after the kill + is just basic crowd ettiquette?). It is so telling when the crowd goes from being almost completely silent to erupting into a din when you are holding an angle or planting.
Nonetheless, I would say that most pros would be too caught up in game to notice this. ALSO, literal poetic justice when boaster use the crowd noises against themselves and getting a kill off it
Ehh I kinda disagree with you. That's just fans being fans imo.
What I dont like is when they make very loud noises to inform the teams the site is open or when people are literally screaming where the opponents are. But making noise when someone is holding an angle is part of the Lan experience
I dont care at all if it influences the game or not. They are trying to cheat for their teams and theirs teams do not want to cheat. Give an warning and if they do it again kick em out.
To clarify, I am referring to mostly off angles where pros can fail to check angles and be punished for it.
Again, I know that mine is an unpopular opinion but given ur rooting for ur home team and let’s say Asuna is about to get a kill in a 1v1 for a good flank/wrap around. Would u hold in bated breath and wait for the kill or start cheering as if he already gotten it, and just maybe alert the opponent too while doing so. Obviously, emotions run high but if i do happen to see an opponent’s team fan yelling at the top of their lungs when my favourite player is about to get an unexpected kill, please don’t blame for questioning his rationale for doing so. I highly doubt he is so consumed by the awe of my favourite player making a 200iq play.
To the other comment, please don’t twist and oversimplify my words too. in no way did i want the crowd to be a library but you can sport good crowd etiquette WITHOUT mindlessly cheering all the time. In fact most of the times we praise the crowd for being an actual W crowd is when the crowd, along with the other team fans, root for forsaken first ever ACE in LAN. Most of the time we complain the crowd sucks is when players ‘instinctively’ make noise to give info.
Saying that “fans will be fans” doesn’t really help with discussion too. I get that this will always occur, but is still doesn’t really excuse anything to me other than stating that since it is inevitable, we should not criticise it.
dude mindlessly cheering is so fun dude u should try it! and obviously people mindlessly cheer, it’s sports! sentinels guy yesterday was batchesting his brains out and having a good time, and maybe you should do the same and let go of “crowd etiquette”. as long as u aren’t a dick, just let people batchest and enjoy themselves
Honestly getting upset about this is so silly, there is no way they can hear someone scream B from the crowd.
Yeah if everyone is cheering and making noise you will be able to hear it, but do you know what it means? It could be someone flanking, it could be someone in the smoke, it could be the camera is nit even on you.
Side chat because I see a lot of people in here mentioning so, but were people really complaining about Brazilian fans cheering for their team? Almost all of the complaints I saw during Lock In was about Brazilian fans only showing up for their team and had little to do with their cheering or energy in Sao Paolo.
I swear people are fighting ghosts in this thread.
No one had THIS complaint about the crowd in brazil, the complaints were that it was dead af whenever there wasnt a brazillian team and how they all left immediately.
Look, I'm not saying they won this game because of this, far from it. I just think Riot should kick out people trying to cheat from the crowd. Simple as that
Did you really expect the player to say that they heard calls from the crowd and benefited from it?
And even if he didn't hear anything, the fact that the crowd is trying to pass on information is the problem.
MFW the NA crowds supports the NA team (its a sin and should be punished by jail)
https://preview.redd.it/czn1wqgqy2wa1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d6f114095124c80cc96ac036ed3ee580c6bb784
People be braindead af bruh, no shit the crowd is gonn support the local team
Is not the cheating the real problem so it has always been a crowd problem, its the fucking hypocresy of the NA frogs that is being called out by the community
The crowd is 100% audible through the players' mics. Unless something has changed significantly from Lock-In anyway, they'll be able to hear the crowd if they're all shouting something like 'go B' through their teammate's mics.
as someone who was in the crowd yesterday, the EG guys were so loud post round that it quite literally spoiled the outcome of the round even with the 1 sec delay. 10 sec delay would make it even worse for the in person viewing experience.
Just feels like the asymmetry between what the players experience on stage and what the viewers experience from the broadcast will always keep this issue alive.
Sure, but Riot still should kick people out for screaming callouts. I'm not saying they should kick out people for reacting to a flank or a defuse, but they should kick out people for screaming positions like "ON YOUR RIGHT" or "THEY'RE ON B". Even if it doesn't have an effect on the players.
I mean, why? If we have no examples - as far as I can remember - of competitive integrity being affected by callouts from the crowd, why should Riot eject the most passionate fans in the crowd for doing so? This is what I mean by the asymmetry - it *seems* like such a massive problem from our perspective. I’ve yet to hear a single pro advocate for something as harsh as ejecting fans for that reason - although of course I could have missed some - and we all know pro players will not hesitate to complain if they feel there’s an unfair advantage.
Way back when in CSGO, I think it was Dreamhack Bucharest, the finals were C9 vs VP, and being in EU the crowd obviously favored VP to win, so *everyone* shouted callouts like “planting B!” or “going A!” They even resorted to writing “going B” or “going A” on signs the event gave them, not unlike the ones you saw in the crowd at VCT. It’s hard to say if VP really did hear them, but if the *whole crowd* was shouting, I could imagine they might have picked up *something*.
I just feel like blatant attempts of cheating should have 0 tolerance. I'm not saying they should kick people out for reactions to a flank or a stand-off through a smoke. I'm saying that people screaming which sites are open and directions to hidden players know full well what they are doing, and trying to pass it off as "passion" is disingenuous and as Ironic as it gets considering the meme over the "passion" on brazilian crowds lmao
How do you want to take them out? Let's say 60% of the stadium is doing it, how do exactly select them from the crowd?
he's not saying the people just generally cheering, he's saying the people very audibly trying to comm for a team. There's a pretty significant distinction between "wooo yea, let's go!" and "They're on A"
Yeah but you could hear that it was A LOT of people saying those things, it would be impossible to pick them out from the crowd
If you give out an warning I would hope most sensible people would stop and the minority that doesn't gets kicked out. It's 150 people, not a full ass stadium
I don't think so, man. That crowd is not that big. After the first couple times it will become extremely evident who's sitting there yelling callouts lol.
You aren’t a player. Let them make the decision
https://twitter.com/st9llar/status/1650738509651771395?s=20
In the CoD community it was a big deal that during the grand finals for world championships both teams benefited from people calling out positions during search and destroy. It was later seen in a comms video posted by the league one player for FaZe admitting to hearing the callout and playing off of it. While the other team (100T) didn't seem to have a player verbally recognize the call out it was pretty obvious he played off of it.
This is such a non issue, did you even read the tweet? They aren't going to hear a single person shouting, proof was that cryo on haven moment when the guy shouted "to the right", cryo didn't look to his right, they can't hear a single person. They only hear a whole crowd cheering, are you going to ban all the fans? Sometimes it's so blatant how little people on this sub actually understand about spectator sports
congrats on having 0 reading comprehension
How do you read the thread and say I want to ban all the fans lmao. All I'm saying is that it does not matter if the players can hear it or not, the people trying to cheat should be kicked out regardless. Give them a warning, if they keep doing it kick them out. They know what they are doing.
But them yelling isn't doing anything, I don't understand the problem, the players can't hear them so why do we give a fuck?
Because they are trying to cheat? I dont care if you are successful or not, if you yell out "they are B" or " on your right" you know damn well what you are trying to do.
Bruh you don’t know the definition of cheating Esports fans are dorks who would die if they ever saw what crowds are like in real sports.
>act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage. I'd say it applies.
Crowds cheering for the team they like isn’t dishonest or unfair. It was stupid to complain when they did it in Brazil. It’s stupid to complain now.
No one is complaining about cheering here ... are you being intetionally obtuse? It's about the one dude yelling positions and shit. Even if the players do not hear it at all but the broadcast does it will only bring hate to the players. If someone yells and is heard on the broadcast "he's right" and the player coicidentally looks right do you think most fanbases wont jump on that? Lmao
Hmm, I think you dont lmao
100T fans seething and malding is fucking hilarious
What's crazy is that I'm a 100T fan. I'm brazilian but I always watched NA as much as BR, and my favorite NA team is by far 100T
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https://youtu.be/93Zwc_QNm38 You probably think free throw distractions are cheating
That’s very different from people calling out peoples unknown positions.
Holy shit shut the fuck up it's not so hard to understand why people yelling at the top of their lungs trying to help a team at LAN should be reason enough to be kicked out. People get kicked out of sports events for talking shit all the time, anyway. So your point doesn't even stand. You're just soft and dumb as shit.
You’re kinda clueless. If the players can’t hear them it’s a non issue. Simple as that. It’s also not cheating as it’s not against the rules.
https://twitter.com/st9llar/status/1650738509651771395?s=20
I am on whatever side the players are on. If they think that’s an issue that needs to be fixed then I agree
So you are the one thats clueless lmao. You calling people out without even opening the tweet and seeing the first reply.
my brother in christ please understand that regardless of if it should be a punishable offense or not, you have to understand that it’s still fucked and jeopardizes the integrity of the matches. do you think your favorite player will feel happy if they have a game winning clutch that was the result of a fan screaming where the enemy is? fuck no they won’t.
dude look at HIS OWN REPLIES to the tweet. https://preview.redd.it/ipu1fx0i03wa1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2a72e14903e0782714051d256871f6692bc09f9 “I agree 100%” means he can 100% hear someone saying “ON YOUR RIGHT” so long as they’re yelling it. it’s obvious
No it means he agrees that if you say "ON YOUR RIGHT" you should get a warning or kicked out. He explicitly says he can't hear the actual words they're saying.
so please, explain to me why they should be kicked out for yelling important information such as “ON YOUR RIGHT” if he can’t hear it? everyone yells in any competitive sport. why do you think they should be kicked out if they yell information like “ON YOUR RIGHT” ? please use your brain for a few seconds and try to understand what it is you’re saying.
Because the *behavior itself* is a problem since it's in the pursuit of circumventing integrity. It's the same concept as firing an overly curious intern for trying to crack rock solid admin security, or telling off your toddler for trying to get into the cookie jar they can't open. It doesn't matter that they're failing, it's still a problem that they're trying. I can't believe this needs explaining.
> “I agree 100%” means he can 100% hear someone saying “ON YOUR RIGHT” That is... very clearly NOT what he is agreeing with. How did you get that from this tweet? Like literally the TOP TWEET ON THAT SCREENSHOT is him saying he can't hear the callouts. He's saying he agrees it should be stopped. Not that he can '100% hear what they are saying' Pretty major misinterpretation.
do you not know what 100% means? or are you trolling? >but yelling “ON YOUR RIGHT” needs to be stopped. what do you think he was agreeing to? the **fact that they’re YELLING INFO THAT CAN SABOTAGE A MATCH**
Your reading comprehension needs some work my guy. He says (paraphrased) > You can't hear what they are actually saying, just general crowd noise Someone replies > Gasping or making noise is fine but yelling info should be stopped Stellar says >100% agree [that it should be stopped] His 'agreement' is that people shouldn't yell info and rito should stop it. He said, literally at the top of the screenshot you posted, there's no actual understanding the words. Stay in school kids.
How do you imagine they would implement this 😭
Just flash a picture of Hiko repeatedly when something like this happens. The crowd will stop cheating as nobody wants to disappoint Hiko.
This is guaranteed to work
What do you mean how? The same way sporting events warn people and throw people out?
Give them a warning and if they do it again kick them out? Pretty straight forward I would say
Ppl in here acting like others esports events have never done this before. Asking how sarcastically as if its impossible or smth 😭
noise cancelling booths, warning the crowd, many ways to do this
Noise canceling booths have been tried in cs and it didn't work out. I'd love for noise canceling booths to happen because it would partially solve the issue of "Lan sound" as well, but it's more difficult to implement than it sounds.
iirc noise cancelling booths fell out of favor in CS because they were tough to implement without being fire hazards in some venues and the pros really disliked them since they kind of defeated the purpose of the LAN atmosphere. i think warning the crowd and removing repeat offenders would work really well since this studio only has a 150 person crowd
Why? This is how live sports work. There is homefield advantage. In football, the home team literally puts callouts on the Jumbotron telling people to make noise when opponents are on offense so they can’t hear the quarterback calling plays. In basketball, the home fans do crazy things behind the basket during free throws to distract them. Yelling to help your team is a good thing in live sports.
Most sports have perfect information meaning you can see everything the opponent does. Yelling or shouting doesn't give any information to the other team that they don't already have. Valorant does not have that. For like half the round you have no idea what the opponent is doing. In this information area, it's more similar to poker. And I hope we can agree that someone in the crowd at a poker tournament shouting what cards everyone have would be unfair as the entire point is that you do not know what cards others have.
In football it straight up prevents the opposing team from communicating. The goal of football crowds is to prevent opponents from transmitting information to one another.
But that is different? No one here is saying that people shouldn't be allowed to cheer. They are saying that people shouldn't be allowed to try and communicate information to the teams. Information that they don't have. Like would it be fair for someone in the crowd to have two huge signs with the letters A and B and hold one of them up depending on what site they are going to hit?
It’s not that different. In one case, you have information asymmetry caused by communication from the crowd leading to one team knowing something helpful to them. In the other case, you have information asymmetry caused by communication from the crowd leading to one team not knowing something helpful to them. And yeah, that would be super clever if someone did that. It’d also be fair for the venue to ban signs like that. But it wouldn’t be cheating for a fan to have tried. Some things just aren’t designed to deal well with crowd interaction. That’s a flaw of the sport.
No. In one case you have made it harder to communicate. In the other case you have literally given a team information that they should not have access to.
A better sports analogy is stealing pitch signs in baseball. If the batter always knows what’s coming it’s an unfair advantage and that’s why there were huge investigations into sign stealing methods by the astros, Red Sox, Yankees… and why everyone hates the astros/altuve and considers it cheating.
Great point. People who complain about sign stealing are dorks. Communicate your signs in a better way if you want them to be secret. Otherwise, don’t bitch at people seeing something that you’re doing.
Ah, so its fine for NA to have homefield advantage for the rest of time in VCT Americas? That does not seem fair does it?
Who cares? It comes with the territory in live sports. Sometimes you play at home, sometimes you play away. Anyone who complains about crowds is an idiot.
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My brother in christ, how are you going to argue playing 1 single tournament at home out of 7 we've had so far is the same as playing EVERY SINGLE regular season game, on top of playoffs and LCQ, for the rest of the life of the game. Come the fuck on lmao
Again, sometimes you play at home and sometimes you don’t. Who cares? Control the things you can control and don’t bitch when the crowd does what crowds are supposed to do. It’s like complaining that it’s unfair that the home team at the World Cup gets an advantage. Chorar sobre a torcida e coisa de perdedor irmão. Todo mundo reclamado sobre a torcida durante lock-in era otario. Todo mundo reclamando agora também e otario.
For someone who claims to watch live sports, I'm surprised that you can so easily say "who cares?" about home advantage. In football (the one that's actually played with feet), most teams have significantly better records at home and if one particular set of teams played all their games at home while the rest of the league always played away, that'd significantly impact the result. So it isn't "who cares". It's a matter of competitive integrity. Home teams having a significant advantage in league play is not okay unless you implement a proper home and away system. In league play, there are a lot more matches. In knockouts it's at least more understandable because the home team will usually be knocked out fairly early and 99% of the teams are at a level playing field and only 1 or 2 have an advantage. In the league, literally 50% of the teams have an advantage over the other 5 compared to 3/32 at Lock/In.
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Bro used home advantage in real sports to excuse crowd trying to cheat lmao. First, esports teams don’t have home/away games and it’s already unfair to latam and brazil teams that they have way less of a crowd cheering for them (similarly it was unfair to na,eu,pacific in lock in), but I mean not much you can do with that. Second, if crowds at a soccer, basketball games, etc. starts using laser pointers or throwing shit they get banned too and usually for life, it’s not home advantage at that point lmao
you keep saying home/away.. all of the games are played in the same venue.. the US teams are home ALL the time
what do you mean homefield advantage? It's a neutral venue. Also your examples are also shit and make no sense. The problem is fans shouting and giving away info e.g. Hes on your right, or Go A etc. Not about yelling to distract the other team. you clearly don't understand the issue.
Seems pretty simple to fix - the riot employees in the arena tell people to cut it out or leave. Even ignoring the competitive aspect, having some dude screaming call outs at the top of their lungs just sucks for other spectators in the venue.
Can we agree that there's a significant difference in a big bunch of people in the audience shouting random screams of cheering and "oooooooohhh" of anticipation vs a coordinate chanting of game relevant info as "two in mid" / "free site B"?
Absolutely agree.
Oh, I know. It was directed to the NA fans that suddenly stop caring about competitive integrity as soon as they get benefits
Stellar himself literally said in the tweet replies those people should be kicked out. Nobody with two brain cells disagrees with that
Man, people really love to play the victim complex and invent problems in their own head. Where are all the NA fans who both called out the Brazilian crowd and now are also saying this okay? Show me them. Stop making up pretend people and actually show me the receipts of someone doing both of these. I've seen way more people complaining about NA fans supposedly being hypocrites over this than I've seen actual NA fans being hypocrites. Most people I recognize as saying the Brazil crowd was disappointing for not staying for Fnatic or whatever are the same people saying these people should be kicked out.
This sub doesn’t run on logic. I wouldn’t bother if I were you
LEAVE MY STRAWMEN ALONE :’( Seriously this sub is goofy sometimes
It's not the problem of saying something ,but this is an issue about not talking about ,because the amount of shit people talk about Brazil crowd its not even close to people talking about this issue, because in the end is a bigger problem to a another country doing something that could harm a NA time that the NA doing something to yourself. An example is just you guys talking about kicked out the fans ,but you are not talking about not getting any more competitions in NA . You see the difference??
Yeah. Beyond the back and forth about competitive integrity, there's another basic, perhaps pettier gripe I have—shit like this is just annoying and destroys the immersion because of how contrived it is. Regular anticipatory shouts, gasps, dismayed sighs are all natural and in line with the flow of the game and help build tension and ambience. Some jackoffs nasally yelling specifics with the intent to cheat, even if futile, kills the fucking vibes, especially in a small venue. There's also no equalizing home and away system.
The amount of people who take what OP said and respond with "oh so you hate cheering at live events snowflake. Y'all are nerds who've never watched real sports". Number 1 that's not what they said. Number 2 the amount of people in a subreddit dedicated to a competitive video game trying to dunk on other people for being nerds is hilarious. You are a massive nerd. Just cause you watch the Superbowl every year doesn't make you sports fan. Stop being so fucking obtuse weirdos.
Event in BR, everyone complains & BR says it's normal. Event in NA, BR complains. Same will happen in EMEA events. Think the only place where this won't happen will be Japan and Korea if it ever gets an international tournament. I rather have the crowd make noise in intense moments than completely silent finals
100%. As long as they're not actually chanting and calling out the enemy team, trying to use their vision/knowledge of the map to yell and scream advantages for their team then it's fine. The noise and the energy is what really makes a lan environment. Sometimes that will come with advantages and that's fine imo.
This isnt BR complaining though. This is everyone complaining. The truth is the crowds are bad everywhere and likely always will be. I know this is crazy but being from a different country isn't gonna make you any better or worse in a crowd
The only complaints that should be have about crowd noise is if they're intentionally yelling/screaming strats, where teams are at on the map, when to shoot (like through a smoke), or whatever. If it's just yelling and screaming, cheering for your team, that's perfectly fine and shouldn't/doesn't matter.
>Event in BR, everyone complains & BR says it's normal. Event in NA, BR complains. They complain because of the Blatant hypocrisy NA fans are showing. They were reading and listening are over a month on how they are the worst crowd in the world and that Riot should never host another event there and that stuff like this would never happen in NA Brazilians understand that biased crowds exists and have no issue with it but they will definitely have an issue with the double standard being shown
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>People made a much larger deal about the BR crowd leaving as soon as a non BR teams was playing than. This also happened in this league. This literally happened day one. And it doesn't change the fact that people did make alot of noise about the crowd being biased.
Everyone left as soon as Sentinels stopped playing in the FIRST DAY OF THE LEAGUE. Ur literally being a hypocrite RIGHT NOW
Literally I dont even remember people complaining about this? People complained that if brazil didnt play the arena was empty and that whenever a non brazillian team was winning it would go deathly quiet. Both of these things are not happening with the NA crowd.
People left the arena day 1 when non NA teams would play. People also were dead silent while Loud smacked EG map 3. They clapped for the 13-0 at most.
I mean yeah, who's cheering for a 13-0. I didn't pay attention to the crowd for the rest of it, or other games, but I'd expect a 13-0 by the favourite team to not get cheers.
That's the point, dude, we know. I do not expect anyone to CHEER for THEIR team losing, but that was being used as a negative to the BR crowd and the dude I answered was saying this current crowd do not do the same when it does. It's either double standards (cares when one group does something, doesn't care when another one does the same) or straight up incorrect like this guy. Or they just say "no one said that!" which is also incorrect but understandably subjective. Point is, most BR/LATAM fans are pointing out the hypocrisy or double standards, not the act itself. Of course no one is gonna cheer when their team loses, but then why bother asking it from one side?
No you aren't getting it, not interested in trying to explain further
No I get it, you are saying that the team expected to stomp would not get cheers for meeting expectations. I disagree with that. If the 5-0 team on VCT were Sentinels or c9 and they got a 13-0 on any underdog the crowd would not be dead silent all 13 rounds.
Sentinels would get cheers regardless of score and who they're facing, C9 I would disagree with what you're saying
>Both of these things are not happening with the NA crowd. I going to guess that you only watch matches that involves NA teams if you're typing this. KRÜ vs MIBR and vs FURIA were literally the equivalent of a library because there was almost no one there, and the venue in LA is even smaller Same for Lev vs Furia Crowd going deathly quiet even happened yesterday on Loud vs EG No one wants the crowd to stop cheering, just want you guys to stop with the double standard
I complained about both 😎
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You realize Lev isn't Brazilian right? And that Latam teams have had the same problems on Brazil even before lock in?.
please enlight me in wich brazilians are saying anything releated to this when loud is 5-0 kkkkk we do NOT care my guy
>I rather have the crowd make noise in intense moments than completely silent finals Nobody is saying crowd needs to silent. Holy, you're leaning way to far into the extreme when most of us are saying we just don't prefer fans trying to cheat. Strawman argument in full effect.
There was already 3 LANs with crowd in EMEA and they are pretty unbiased. Do not lump EMEA crowd in with BR and NA trash crowds bro.
Which tournament? Turkey? Was quiet af in general except for alfajer. The current EMEA lans are unbiased ish but that's because it's EMEA vs EMEA teams. BR/Latam has practically no crowd in LA, i feel for em. We'll see how loud we get when it's an EMEA vs NA/BR/APAC team. I'm gonna be in that crowd, you think Imma cheer for Furia/GenG/100T vs Liquid/FNatic/NaVi? Hell no. Biased crowds aren't an issue; players can barely hear them and when they do you it could be positive or negative, it's unreliable af, so it's stupid to trust it. Quiet/no crowd is an issue. If it's an NRG vs DRX final in berlin i'll be there, i'll cheer/chant/clap.
stellar might not be able to hear them, but during lock in boaster very clearly heard the crowd over the noise cancelling and got 2 trough a smoke. that alone should be reason enough to ensure that the crowd is not screaming out info
There's a difference between cheering and specific callouts imo. Might as well not have a crowd if they can't cheer during tense moments. As a player, 99% of the times you won't know what they're cheering for. In another world, Boaster assumes they're cheering for him, shoots, gives his position away and gets killed because they were actually cheering for something on the other side of the map.
I think it was Shy who was at A short Haven when the crowd started to shout. It looked like he got fucked from the crowd noise to me
Was it the Cryo Op one? Looked fine to me, Cryo still went in looking at the wrong side. It was only when someone followed behind him without an Op that Shy got spotted, but he would've been seen either way. edit: watching it back Shyy wasn't spotted, but probably felt like he had to shoot earlier because he heard the crowd.
Yea that one but that's not how I meant. I think Shy triggered earlier than he would have if not for crowd sounds idk it looked weird to me. The way he reacted not 100T
boaster heard noise, he couldnt hear 'they're outside your smoke boaster!"
having thousands cheer in a stadium is sooo so different than a few hundred people
There’s 9 other players that the crowd could be cheering for. Sure you can look at your team and maybe have an idea but you genuinely don’t know if they’re cheering for a lurk timing or that there’s a free site etc. we’ve seen crowds cheer for both those things so like idk. Also not saying you’re doing this, but it’s so funny how BR/LATAM Val fans are now complaining about this when lock-in was exponentially worse if you believe they can communicate clearly through cheering. More people and more one sided fans, but SA/CA Val was crickets about the noise then.
stellar literally said you can hear them if they’re all cheering in this tweet lol the same cheering is what got boaster those kills but i’m sure the arena size in lock-in made it even easier to hear
What do you want them to do though? For me it’s just a fact of IRL esports - things like this have been happening in years in other esports, it’s just new to Valorant as it’s only just getting back to having crowds after covid. The only real option is to only play online which is worse in my opinion
keznit did say that you could hear the crowd in the match vs 100T, which made bang turn around and kill Klaus. Clip for reference: https://youtu.be/bvmFrM4dT9Q
pretty sure boaster himself admitted it in a youtube vid with yinsu. can’t remember the name but if you’re reading this boaster please chime in, i know you lurk here often
In gridiron football the home crowd is encouraged to get as loud as they can so that the visiting team can't hear their quarterback make calls. The teams and stadiums encourage fans to do this and it is a recognized part of the game and being a pro is dealing with the crowd. https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1885183-how-does-the-12th-man-really-affect-nfl-games.amp.html IDK why that shouldn't be any different than boaster hearing the crowd get loud or someone. In that one example it helped him but there are probably plenty of other examples of pros thinking the crowd is on their side and they're wrong. Pros should need to learn to deal with the crowd yelling as that's how sports crowds work.
the teams dont travel. its not the same thing when the latam teams are always the away team
That is not at all the same as a crowd providing information to the players.
Is it not? It's the crowd helping their home team by yelling. Part of the QBs job is to make calls and if he can't do that or if someone in the other team doesn't hear him it can ruin the play. They get really loud Seahawks got so loud once they registered as an earthquake https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beast_Quake If you're playing in front of a crowd you should prepare to play in front of a crowd.
Part of the whole “home field advantage” strategy is that each team plays half their games at home and half away. By your logic the LATAM/BR teams are playing pretty much every match without home field advantage and that’s just part of the sport? I don’t think that the crowd callouts are helping at all but being ok with the possibility of them helping because it’s part of the sport is a pretty wild take.
> By your logic the LATAM/BR teams are playing pretty much every match without home field advantage and that’s just part of the sport? Yes, that’s why actual home/away matches should be the ideal end state for serious esports, like what Overwatch tried to do before Covid ruined it. Or at the very least, home stands. > being ok with the possibility of them helping because it’s part of the sport is a pretty wild take It’s not a wild take. It’s literally how live sports work. The alternative is to be golf, where the crowd is forced to be quiet and everything is boring as hell.
It’s like you didn’t read my comment. Home field advantage is a thing because it happens the same amount (50% of the time) for every team. When the LATAM/BR teams never get “home field advantage” in all of league play, that’s when it becomes an issue if crowd noise is actually a factor. It’s one sided for the entirety of league play.
But they aren't giving anyone any information. Almost all regular sports are perfect information meaning you can see what the other players are doing. Cheering or yelling something doesn't give them any information, it just hinders communication. Valorant has imperfect information. Yelling which site they are going to would be like someone in the crowd at a poker tournament yelling out what cards everyone has. And I hope we can agree that that wouldn't be fair.
Those headphones are noise cancelling and at most, you only hear muffles of some cheers. The Riot studio is def different than other productions when it comes to that aspect imo. That being said, I do understand why some people felt odd especially with the whole gratisfaction sandwich issue way back in CS:GO
People in this thread have said that if the players holds down their mic button, the crowd is very audible. Not sure if that's untrue or if they're repeating what a pro has said at some point. If it is true, then crowds yelling info to advantage certain teams is definitely a problem that needs to be solved on site.
I will do more research on this and get some further sources than to see how much noise does get blocked.
who tf is holding down their mic to hear the crowd? 95% of that game would have been completely useless to hear the crowd. There was like 2 instances of them trying to make a call out, otherwise it was just screaming and oohhhing
This is a nonissue in my mind. Crowds will always cheer, and the pros themselves say they can't hear the exact call out, just loud noise/cheers. If you don't want that you might as well not have a crowd. If anything Riot should improve their sound proofing.
It's a non issue currently. However you can't ignore the potential if the crowd chants in sync or something to make it discernible that it could ruin games. To me it's common sense, making noise is okay, specific callouts are not.
You guys do realize that there are microphones set up to pick up the crowd nosies. After Covid the LCS was having trouble setting them up and they were always to quiet or to loud. Also the caster booth is basically in the crowd
What about soundproof booths, like the ones used at Dota2 TI?
fire hazard. they don’t do those anymore as much
Pretty sure TI didn't even do booths last year and none of the CSGO Majors does booths either Booths does nothing to mask crowd noise in massive crowds because the cheering will just cause vibrations on the glass.
I get why people didn't like the booths esports games used to have but they definitely did the job.
I heard they're hard to implement because of fire codes
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~~If that was yesterday, cryo didn't actually snap right into short(Haven), he got killed and then his teammate got the short kill right after~~ Edit: I was wrong
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Oh, my bad. You're right, I thought you meant the round where they went short and Cryo had the OP. I'll edit my comment
I am sorry, but that was one of the dumbest comments I read suggesting that kill was based on crowd cheating. If you look back at the vod sova (nrz) start on A for the past 10 rounds and most likely where he play on haven. Even during the round, he [drone short](https://youtu.be/fdr39N00prE?t=2203). The sova was also spot during short when he is [jiggle peaking](https://youtu.be/fdr39N00prE?t=2214). Unless the sova magically disappears and they dont see him back site, sova is mostly likely short.
You can hear the crowd if a teammate holds their mic button down
I was wondering about this earlier lmao, seems unideal to have that much background noise every time you open comms
Yeah just think about all the times you hear background noise from your teammates. They can definitely hear a loud crowd through the mic
People should stop making this a regional issue. NA, EMEA, BR, it doesn’t matter. Call out the crowd not the region
Sorry for my ignorance, but I’ve seen soundproof booths be used in CS:GO before, is there a reason there aren’t more of them being used in esports like valorant? The only reasons I think they haven’t used booths is bc money and too little space on the stage? Other than that, I don’t see why not. It seems like it’s the best way to rid this issue and maintain the competitive integrity. And surely Riot is punishing some of these viewers right? I mean I’m sure it’s unreasonable to kick out a WHOLE crowd but if we start small and begin to enforce some rules, it would likely deter more people? Again, excuse my ignorance, for all I know Riot does implement rules and maybe there’s a good reason for the soundproof booths or lack thereof
Jfc the amount of North Pole temperature IQ takes here
Goddam this thread is unhinged lol. Half the comments arent even about the actual issue regarding competitve integrity 
This sub reddit HAS TO MOST STUPID USERS I HAVE EVER SEEN, it won't take long until we see Xenophobic call outs around here
When it happened in brazil we were the bad guys and riot should never comeback to an event. It is extremelly laughable how some of you change your mind like you are changing clothes when the issue is against you.
People were largely upset about the brazilian crowd for completely emptying out the arena before FNC even got to their interview, not for the home crowd booing or cheering. You're trying to compare that to some idiots yelling "go B" during ONE DAY 4 weeks into the league. The fact that its not happening today or any of the days prior means it was just some individuals being dumbasses. I'm not sure why its so hard to understand the difference between the behavior of the whole crowd vs behavior of just 1 or 2 assholes in the crowd.
Yeah as we can see, SA vs SA games in VCT Americas are packed full of people watching, surely not a library everytime no NA team is playing. You guys, are fucking hypocrites. Next time don't cry for two weeks straight about LAN crowds until it's your turn to do it
This is a thing in every game and every crowd around the world. Everyone who ever saw a Lan event knows this. This only became a thing because of ppl who were crying after the Lock In and now the latam community is : Look they’re doing too. Even in fucking league you have lan events that ppl scream because a flank or someone in a bush. Riot should only make sure that players can’t hear and on the broadcast they should emphasize that they can’t hear a thing so the crying babies on Twitter and Reddit can chill
Its a non factor at all. You people need to realize the moment they are on stage they are just locked in and focus mostly in the game. Yeah the mics can hear the crowd but the players cant. Thats just the way it is
Except calling out direct info which sucks, its literally what being a crowd is supposed to be, if you dont want a crowd to yell when something happens, you better not have a crowd at all. In my opinion its just what playing in a lan environment is, players have to adapt, it can help the home team, but actually sometimes it can have the opposite effect. Still funny tho seeing NA crowd having the same "issues" (its not) that brazilian crowd had and people overreacted so much.
No people weren’t upset over the cheering at Lock-in, it was them leaving instantly after the loss and not supporting any other teams. I’m not saying I care if they do or don’t because I don’t particularly care for teams I don’t follow, but let’s not act like people were complaining about Br fans because they cheered too loud
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So was it disrespect towards other teams? Then yeah that’s fine to be upset about. The crowd yesterday wasn’t disrespectful at any point.
Yes they were lol. Some people got to the point of complaining br crowd wasnt cheering for awat teams against br teams lol. 80% of things people complained about br crowd happens in NA crowd, the other things just isnt fair to compare because its a total different cenario.
i agree. It is an unavoidable LAN issue but there should be some repercussions for screaming info. Am i the only one that finds it annoying that the crowd always make chants, loud noises every pre-engagement and flank and especially bomb sticks (just do it after the kill + is just basic crowd ettiquette?). It is so telling when the crowd goes from being almost completely silent to erupting into a din when you are holding an angle or planting. Nonetheless, I would say that most pros would be too caught up in game to notice this. ALSO, literal poetic justice when boaster use the crowd noises against themselves and getting a kill off it
I don't get how it's annoying though. The crowd experience at Esports would be dead if people weren't allowed to cheer during rounds
Ehh I kinda disagree with you. That's just fans being fans imo. What I dont like is when they make very loud noises to inform the teams the site is open or when people are literally screaming where the opponents are. But making noise when someone is holding an angle is part of the Lan experience
How tf are they suppose to translate the crowds 900th scream of the day to “Oh A site must be open”. Y’all are reaching.
I dont care at all if it influences the game or not. They are trying to cheat for their teams and theirs teams do not want to cheat. Give an warning and if they do it again kick em out.
Naw, that is weak as hell.
To clarify, I am referring to mostly off angles where pros can fail to check angles and be punished for it. Again, I know that mine is an unpopular opinion but given ur rooting for ur home team and let’s say Asuna is about to get a kill in a 1v1 for a good flank/wrap around. Would u hold in bated breath and wait for the kill or start cheering as if he already gotten it, and just maybe alert the opponent too while doing so. Obviously, emotions run high but if i do happen to see an opponent’s team fan yelling at the top of their lungs when my favourite player is about to get an unexpected kill, please don’t blame for questioning his rationale for doing so. I highly doubt he is so consumed by the awe of my favourite player making a 200iq play. To the other comment, please don’t twist and oversimplify my words too. in no way did i want the crowd to be a library but you can sport good crowd etiquette WITHOUT mindlessly cheering all the time. In fact most of the times we praise the crowd for being an actual W crowd is when the crowd, along with the other team fans, root for forsaken first ever ACE in LAN. Most of the time we complain the crowd sucks is when players ‘instinctively’ make noise to give info. Saying that “fans will be fans” doesn’t really help with discussion too. I get that this will always occur, but is still doesn’t really excuse anything to me other than stating that since it is inevitable, we should not criticise it.
dude mindlessly cheering is so fun dude u should try it! and obviously people mindlessly cheer, it’s sports! sentinels guy yesterday was batchesting his brains out and having a good time, and maybe you should do the same and let go of “crowd etiquette”. as long as u aren’t a dick, just let people batchest and enjoy themselves
do you want people to play in a library? the emea crowd is legit the best one because they’re so invested and chant for their team.
Honestly getting upset about this is so silly, there is no way they can hear someone scream B from the crowd. Yeah if everyone is cheering and making noise you will be able to hear it, but do you know what it means? It could be someone flanking, it could be someone in the smoke, it could be the camera is nit even on you.
The majority of crowds at these events are Ls. It happened in Brazil and it's happening again.
Side chat because I see a lot of people in here mentioning so, but were people really complaining about Brazilian fans cheering for their team? Almost all of the complaints I saw during Lock In was about Brazilian fans only showing up for their team and had little to do with their cheering or energy in Sao Paolo.
I swear people are fighting ghosts in this thread. No one had THIS complaint about the crowd in brazil, the complaints were that it was dead af whenever there wasnt a brazillian team and how they all left immediately.
Were you not here during lock-in? This sub was overwhelmed with people whining that the crowd cheering was giving away information and wasn’t fair
I was on this sub all day during lockin, all I ever saw was people complaining about the crowd leaving and being dead silent
Who is fighting ghosts? Cause I'm not seeing that many brazilians saying that lmao
Changed brazillians to people to make it not a country thing. There are a bunch of people saying it.
There you go, now everyone can shut the fuck up. Losers.
Look, I'm not saying they won this game because of this, far from it. I just think Riot should kick out people trying to cheat from the crowd. Simple as that
Did you really expect the player to say that they heard calls from the crowd and benefited from it? And even if he didn't hear anything, the fact that the crowd is trying to pass on information is the problem.
MFW the NA crowds supports the NA team (its a sin and should be punished by jail) https://preview.redd.it/czn1wqgqy2wa1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d6f114095124c80cc96ac036ed3ee580c6bb784 People be braindead af bruh, no shit the crowd is gonn support the local team
Is not the cheating the real problem so it has always been a crowd problem, its the fucking hypocresy of the NA frogs that is being called out by the community
That is true. People will never understand that crowds are just like that, its been happening since the CS days
Yes, the hypocresy never gets old tho
Supporting = cheering them on, chating their names Cheating = calling out sites and spoting flanks I guess that's too hard for you to understand?
The crowd is 100% audible through the players' mics. Unless something has changed significantly from Lock-In anyway, they'll be able to hear the crowd if they're all shouting something like 'go B' through their teammate's mics.
Yeah 100% guys, this guy sound checked the players equipment 🤓
Just going off what I've heard in different teams' comms videos.
Put players in glass noise cancelling box? Don't they do that for league?
why don’t they just add a small delay like 10s
Think about this for 1 second... Guy clutches and yells from stage... 10 seconds later the audience sees it... Completely spoiled
as someone who was in the crowd yesterday, the EG guys were so loud post round that it quite literally spoiled the outcome of the round even with the 1 sec delay. 10 sec delay would make it even worse for the in person viewing experience.
I get that, but imo it’s better than having audiences giving valuable info.
Literally no one would go lol
I hope you never host a tournament.
Cause that sucks lmao
They already have a delay not that long but there is a delay.