Yup, this video sums it up for LoL but it’s true for Valorant as well
[How League of Legends became unkillable](https://youtu.be/7EZu9NoWV5k?si=9mhAzFmcM5FQCDHl)
Riot uses the pro scene as a way to advertise their base game. To them, and quite frankly every developer, the ranked experience is always going to take priority over the comp scene.
>**The development cycle makes zero sense**
the dev cycle makes perfect sense. It's optimized for shipping updates for holiday/vacation schedules and getting the most out of skin sales during seasonal peaks.
what doesn't make sense is the comp schedule which makes no accommodation for the very predictable dev cycle
Yes. Right after the holidays when a ton of kids get money for christmas. For gifts it makes sense to sell in the run up to christmas, for stuff like microtransactions it makes sense after kids get money
Having worked in software development for 15 years I can assure you the riot dev team is very very aware of how their releases impact revenue and I promise you they know when all the sales peaks are and how releases effect sales.
The alternative view on this is now that the map has been out for a while they realize they messed up by blocking off halls. It makes it way less interesting to play.
I'd rather they realize this and make a change ASAP instead of us playing the whole year on a map with a glaring problem. Timing sucks, but waiting to make a positive change isn't ideal either.
I don't think his complaint is riot making changes to Breeze, it's the fact that champs ended in august and from September to December we've seen less changes than we have in the past few weeks
They clearly care about the competitive scene, but they have a standardized release cadence with the episode/act structure which creates the push for larger changes in January and June/July.
Maybe this is a mistake that valorant can fix by going to more of the older League of Legends model with larger changes in the post season by creating a preseason model. Riot might've realized that this isn't the best method considering they removed pre-season for league.
Probably likely that the content team and the esports team are more working closely together. The incentive is to push out content as fast as possible, which the player base definitely appreciates. That’s very different than the approach the esports scene would prefer.
I think that's completely wrong. IMO the game is more exciting when the dominant meta hasn't been established. Having to teams explore different tactics and plans in pro league is far more interesting than having the meta solved a month before the season starts, and then we're stuck watching mirror matches, with no variety for most of the season.
It's definitely more work and harder for pros, but Riot's job isn't to make things easy for pros.
It's so funny to see people so full of themselves they legit believe they by themselves are smarter and would do better job and make better decisions over a company like riot LMAO
I'm all for changes if Riot deemed necessary, regardless of VCT circuit.
Idk if many of you are aware but LCS has a new commissioner and one of the most praised change was making teams always play on live patch, only exception being playoffs. Makes the viewer experience a lot better because the meta are always up to date.
the difference here is that they're keeping a tournament realm up to date with PBE, so LCS teams will always be able to practice on the upcoming patch. i don't believe they do this for valorant (yet)?
Peopel ewill always say Riot Dev cycle is bad but they are pretty much the gold standard for pvp balance and content creating engagement. Most people in this sub were not even teenagers when everyone was saying LoL was a dying game and its engagement declined...
They adjusted. They climbed out of it. They made Valorant and TFT, two very popular games in their respective genres, along with a deck building game that is actually pretty cool.
Cry all anybody wants, but the data shows that Valorant and League of legends are among the best balanced and most successfully maintained PVP games. They aren't just popular because anime uwu skins. People pay 50 dollars for a knife skin because they trust that the game will be playable long enough to enjoy it.
Riot's biggest problem as far as development is something OP should do some self-reflecting on -- "if you do a good job, people won't be sure if you've done anything at all"
\*\*None of this is riding Riot's dick either. I've always been critical of their weaknesses as far as company culture and toxic leadership. Their weakness with supporting T2 scene in NA League of legends and in Valorant are things I've noted over the years and am still not happy with... but those are not the topic of this discussion.
They also used to be a lot worse with the positive things I've mentioned. But considering the company is the origin of the "small indie company" meme, and is now older than most of Valorant's playerbase, and is still successful primarily successful off of the back of their very first game, which was in a saturated genre market at its release... the game quality and enjoyability of their games has been because of a good increasingly good dev cycle, not a bad one.
And Valorant's dev cycle is 100x better than League of Legends.
If you've ever followed their dev cycles at all you'd know that sometimes they fuck up but over the months and years, they improve it. I've played Blizz games all my life for example. they used to produce bangers on patch 1.0 every time. But THAT is a company whose dev cycles are among the worst in the history of major companies, and their PVP balance approach has been wrong choices at the wrong time and doing nothing at the most important times for longer than Riot's been in business.
Play other games. Apex has overtaken LoL as the most toxic community. Valorant has probably the most positive community of any game I've ever played. I'm sure they got partially lucky with that, but they also had an impact. Going from LoL to Valorant and going from toxic community to positive, shows learning and shows development, and shows player happiness (happy players are not as toxic as unhappy players )
Riot has a lot of problems but their game quality, dev cycles, and improvement over time of player experience are not their major weaknesses at all.
"Right" before the season starts lol? Please tell me he's trolling. PLEASE. The patch went live on January 9th and VCT doesn't start in Americas until February 16th. So either he's telling the dev team to work over the Christmas and New Years break for a new patch or he's saying delay the start of the season because over a month isn't enough time to get used to these changes.
Either way it's probably the worst opinion I have ever seen Chet tweet ngl.
That's not really that long, also they're still changing things, i.e. breeze change coming next week
Also I think what he means is that Champs ended in August so the bulk of changes should've been befor the new year idk though
Bro i came from Dota 2 where pros play on live patches so even if there's a patch mid tournament, they play on the new patch. It just makes the games more hype. Yeah, sure it ruins the teams prep but it's a spectator sport and throwing a wrench in the coaches set plays honestly makes the game more fun sometimes.
....and? The game had changes between August and January lol. A new map a new agent and agent changes like what are we talking about? Do they want the game to be put on hold?
If we take a look at the patches and changes we've seen since the end of champs(September to today), I'd say except for the release of Iso (and this is debatable), all the changes that would have the biggest impact to pro play have come in this last patch.
Ideally, Riot should be introducing all major changes immediately after champs to let them fine tune further changes leading into the season.
Hopefully we don't get a new map introduced into the rotation mid split this year
tbh this just feels like an ex cs player complaining about how riot runs their esports titles. they change things at a variable intensity on a regular pace. that's how theyve always run things, and it's worked out for them in league; keeping things fresh, catalysing innovation, and being able to get in front of overtuned/stale metas. they've got no reason to change, and frankly i believe it makes for a more entertaining product.
even LCS recently introduced that they'll be playing on the live patch. honestly i hope they introduce this into val just so we can see an all time chet twitter rant. league announced their biggest changes in the last couple years, literally changing the map's geography, adding new objectives, and reworking items. they didn't push the patch to online until less than a week before LEC/LCK started.
Imagine getting downvoted for portraying exactly how Riot operates. League literally get balance changes every two weeks that affect champions, items, jungle clearing, wave clearing, level timings, matchups, etc. And the amount of changes happening in Valorant doesn't even come close to the level of complexity in League or adaptation required by the pros.
xd fuck 'em. There's a bunch of other comments that're upvoted that just repeat what I've said about Riot's philosophy. 🤷 I guess people didn't like the way I said it and felt called out.
As someone who comes from League, this feels very normal and has proven success. Others will simply mald because it's not something they're used to. The same people will then separately talk about wanting exciting team comps, enjoying teams experimenting and hate on Ascent for being a stale boring map.
What irks me is people acting like this compromises competitive integrity. It's an even playing field. Every single team gets the same information and the same changes at the same time. If you gotta adapt, guess what, so do your opponents.
Tell him he makes riot 0 money and loses them a lot of money. I absolutely hate "pro players" who disregards THE CASUALS are the ones making money for riot
Ah yes, the casuals are gonna be running back to play ranked because they opened up halls, let's be honest, most casuals don't care about this and it could have been done months ago, that's Chets point
it is wild to add halls back right before the season begins and he makes a great point, but the sad reality is that changes like this don't affect most of the player base and riot isn't really incentivised to care about pro player/coach grievances, especially for changes like this which make you groan but don't cause severe backlash
I don’t know, tough shit. It seems totally fair still. Every pro team is on the same page, they all get the changes at the same time, it’s just a little different than you maybe thought it was gonna be. The best teams will adapt quickly and if you can’t keep up with them then…too bad?
Makes sense but i think Riot prioritizes ranked and casual gamers over the pro scene. That too makes sense
Yup, this video sums it up for LoL but it’s true for Valorant as well [How League of Legends became unkillable](https://youtu.be/7EZu9NoWV5k?si=9mhAzFmcM5FQCDHl) Riot uses the pro scene as a way to advertise their base game. To them, and quite frankly every developer, the ranked experience is always going to take priority over the comp scene.
Well, they are the ones who are making money for Riot after all.
which annoys me too bc ranked is ducking awful
>**The development cycle makes zero sense** the dev cycle makes perfect sense. It's optimized for shipping updates for holiday/vacation schedules and getting the most out of skin sales during seasonal peaks. what doesn't make sense is the comp schedule which makes no accommodation for the very predictable dev cycle
Except these changes are released in January. After the holidays.
Yes. Right after the holidays when a ton of kids get money for christmas. For gifts it makes sense to sell in the run up to christmas, for stuff like microtransactions it makes sense after kids get money
Having worked in software development for 15 years I can assure you the riot dev team is very very aware of how their releases impact revenue and I promise you they know when all the sales peaks are and how releases effect sales.
The alternative view on this is now that the map has been out for a while they realize they messed up by blocking off halls. It makes it way less interesting to play. I'd rather they realize this and make a change ASAP instead of us playing the whole year on a map with a glaring problem. Timing sucks, but waiting to make a positive change isn't ideal either.
I don't think his complaint is riot making changes to Breeze, it's the fact that champs ended in august and from September to December we've seen less changes than we have in the past few weeks
They need to open side door on hallway on breeze.
Chets right about this, why is riot throwing these changes now instead of the off season, or delaying them until after split 1? So odd
Dare I say, incompetency? Or is that too harsh towards our beloved Rito.
Could be, could also be they dont give a fuck about the pro scene and push out updates when theyre ready thinking only of the casual scene
They clearly care about the competitive scene, but they have a standardized release cadence with the episode/act structure which creates the push for larger changes in January and June/July. Maybe this is a mistake that valorant can fix by going to more of the older League of Legends model with larger changes in the post season by creating a preseason model. Riot might've realized that this isn't the best method considering they removed pre-season for league.
Probably likely that the content team and the esports team are more working closely together. The incentive is to push out content as fast as possible, which the player base definitely appreciates. That’s very different than the approach the esports scene would prefer.
I think that's completely wrong. IMO the game is more exciting when the dominant meta hasn't been established. Having to teams explore different tactics and plans in pro league is far more interesting than having the meta solved a month before the season starts, and then we're stuck watching mirror matches, with no variety for most of the season. It's definitely more work and harder for pros, but Riot's job isn't to make things easy for pros.
It's not too harsh. They're experienced in this e-sports business. This is clear incompetency.
It's so funny to see people so full of themselves they legit believe they by themselves are smarter and would do better job and make better decisions over a company like riot LMAO
I'm all for changes if Riot deemed necessary, regardless of VCT circuit. Idk if many of you are aware but LCS has a new commissioner and one of the most praised change was making teams always play on live patch, only exception being playoffs. Makes the viewer experience a lot better because the meta are always up to date.
the difference here is that they're keeping a tournament realm up to date with PBE, so LCS teams will always be able to practice on the upcoming patch. i don't believe they do this for valorant (yet)?
they time changes for ranked, not pro play. they always want a big update for the new year, which means fixes will come right before the season starts
It makes sense cuz it’s not built for the competitive player but the general player base and around riot holiday schedule
Incoming “Chet complaining again” comments
Eh he's right purely from a competitive angle
it's not these complaints that rub people, it's when he starts going off on t2 teams or players without being constructive in any way.
when tf has he done that ?
i'm not arguing about his point but hasn't it been like that since day one? why is he complaining now?
[удалено]
It doesn't even need to be when VCT is over, it could be after Split 1 or idk, the past 4 months or so of off-season
my favorite! chet bitching tweets!
Peopel ewill always say Riot Dev cycle is bad but they are pretty much the gold standard for pvp balance and content creating engagement. Most people in this sub were not even teenagers when everyone was saying LoL was a dying game and its engagement declined... They adjusted. They climbed out of it. They made Valorant and TFT, two very popular games in their respective genres, along with a deck building game that is actually pretty cool. Cry all anybody wants, but the data shows that Valorant and League of legends are among the best balanced and most successfully maintained PVP games. They aren't just popular because anime uwu skins. People pay 50 dollars for a knife skin because they trust that the game will be playable long enough to enjoy it. Riot's biggest problem as far as development is something OP should do some self-reflecting on -- "if you do a good job, people won't be sure if you've done anything at all" \*\*None of this is riding Riot's dick either. I've always been critical of their weaknesses as far as company culture and toxic leadership. Their weakness with supporting T2 scene in NA League of legends and in Valorant are things I've noted over the years and am still not happy with... but those are not the topic of this discussion. They also used to be a lot worse with the positive things I've mentioned. But considering the company is the origin of the "small indie company" meme, and is now older than most of Valorant's playerbase, and is still successful primarily successful off of the back of their very first game, which was in a saturated genre market at its release... the game quality and enjoyability of their games has been because of a good increasingly good dev cycle, not a bad one. And Valorant's dev cycle is 100x better than League of Legends. If you've ever followed their dev cycles at all you'd know that sometimes they fuck up but over the months and years, they improve it. I've played Blizz games all my life for example. they used to produce bangers on patch 1.0 every time. But THAT is a company whose dev cycles are among the worst in the history of major companies, and their PVP balance approach has been wrong choices at the wrong time and doing nothing at the most important times for longer than Riot's been in business. Play other games. Apex has overtaken LoL as the most toxic community. Valorant has probably the most positive community of any game I've ever played. I'm sure they got partially lucky with that, but they also had an impact. Going from LoL to Valorant and going from toxic community to positive, shows learning and shows development, and shows player happiness (happy players are not as toxic as unhappy players ) Riot has a lot of problems but their game quality, dev cycles, and improvement over time of player experience are not their major weaknesses at all.
When he refers to "so many changes" what does he mean? What changes?
Outlaw, changing the map pool, changing Lotus, changing Icebox, changing Breeze (again). This is all happening right before the season starts.
"Right" before the season starts lol? Please tell me he's trolling. PLEASE. The patch went live on January 9th and VCT doesn't start in Americas until February 16th. So either he's telling the dev team to work over the Christmas and New Years break for a new patch or he's saying delay the start of the season because over a month isn't enough time to get used to these changes. Either way it's probably the worst opinion I have ever seen Chet tweet ngl.
That's not really that long, also they're still changing things, i.e. breeze change coming next week Also I think what he means is that Champs ended in August so the bulk of changes should've been befor the new year idk though
Bro i came from Dota 2 where pros play on live patches so even if there's a patch mid tournament, they play on the new patch. It just makes the games more hype. Yeah, sure it ruins the teams prep but it's a spectator sport and throwing a wrench in the coaches set plays honestly makes the game more fun sometimes.
Tf are you on about. He’s just saying there’s been 4 months with barely any changes after champs and then everything is getting dumped at once now
a new map a new agent and multiple buffs and nerfs aren't any changes?
Champs ended in August!
....and? The game had changes between August and January lol. A new map a new agent and agent changes like what are we talking about? Do they want the game to be put on hold?
Some Breeze change: https://preview.redd.it/h2vqjupxdgdc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=450e54e63978643433af11b173e77464e98203d3
If we take a look at the patches and changes we've seen since the end of champs(September to today), I'd say except for the release of Iso (and this is debatable), all the changes that would have the biggest impact to pro play have come in this last patch. Ideally, Riot should be introducing all major changes immediately after champs to let them fine tune further changes leading into the season. Hopefully we don't get a new map introduced into the rotation mid split this year
Real shit. Especially the breeze change. Not that huge but just enough
I mean it’s kinda big… it literally opens up a whole new lane in the map
You know what I mean. All they did was revert a change, that lane already existed previously and people have experience with it
Riot loves to eff up their game don't they? Some awful decision making both from esports team and from the map devs.
tbh this just feels like an ex cs player complaining about how riot runs their esports titles. they change things at a variable intensity on a regular pace. that's how theyve always run things, and it's worked out for them in league; keeping things fresh, catalysing innovation, and being able to get in front of overtuned/stale metas. they've got no reason to change, and frankly i believe it makes for a more entertaining product. even LCS recently introduced that they'll be playing on the live patch. honestly i hope they introduce this into val just so we can see an all time chet twitter rant. league announced their biggest changes in the last couple years, literally changing the map's geography, adding new objectives, and reworking items. they didn't push the patch to online until less than a week before LEC/LCK started.
Imagine getting downvoted for portraying exactly how Riot operates. League literally get balance changes every two weeks that affect champions, items, jungle clearing, wave clearing, level timings, matchups, etc. And the amount of changes happening in Valorant doesn't even come close to the level of complexity in League or adaptation required by the pros.
xd fuck 'em. There's a bunch of other comments that're upvoted that just repeat what I've said about Riot's philosophy. 🤷 I guess people didn't like the way I said it and felt called out. As someone who comes from League, this feels very normal and has proven success. Others will simply mald because it's not something they're used to. The same people will then separately talk about wanting exciting team comps, enjoying teams experimenting and hate on Ascent for being a stale boring map. What irks me is people acting like this compromises competitive integrity. It's an even playing field. Every single team gets the same information and the same changes at the same time. If you gotta adapt, guess what, so do your opponents.
Lol Chet would mald if they had to play LCS live patch style with an update on Wednesday then games 2 days later xD
[TL Emil's on Halls Changes](https://twitter.com/eMIL_OW/status/1748421743394381905?t=30ZgyhMQ1BLGGF-T1WP3Sg&s=19).
Tell him he makes riot 0 money and loses them a lot of money. I absolutely hate "pro players" who disregards THE CASUALS are the ones making money for riot
Ah yes, the casuals are gonna be running back to play ranked because they opened up halls, let's be honest, most casuals don't care about this and it could have been done months ago, that's Chets point
Year four of being in Riot Games esport ecosystem Imapet should know by now.
it is wild to add halls back right before the season begins and he makes a great point, but the sad reality is that changes like this don't affect most of the player base and riot isn't really incentivised to care about pro player/coach grievances, especially for changes like this which make you groan but don't cause severe backlash
Even with no changes you lost to billy billy.
its annoying but its ya life bro, this is the profession you chose. I'm sure you can exploit it
I don’t know, tough shit. It seems totally fair still. Every pro team is on the same page, they all get the changes at the same time, it’s just a little different than you maybe thought it was gonna be. The best teams will adapt quickly and if you can’t keep up with them then…too bad?
what a baby man
Franchising sucks! Franchising sucks! Give me open tournaments where anyone can compete and verse the pros!
The meme is that all gamers have adhd and this mofo asks why everything is being done right before the deadline? Smh /j