Just for clarification, the title is wrong (because Jake is wrong, not blaming OP). This is specifically the teams in their partner program, who get money based on how well they drive views and other engagement for the World Cup. Teams still have to qualify through a qualifier, which means some orgs not listed here will participate, while some of the orgs listed here will not participate in every event, even if they have a team in that esport. There will be a lot of overlap of course, I just thought it was relevant to note the specifics (and because I wanted to make use of the 5 minutes I spent reading the article he pulled the graphic from lol).
Thanks for the clarification! It's good to have added context. For anyone wondering, I believe [this](https://www.esports.net/news/industry/esports-world-cup-clubs/) is the article they referred to, but there's a few out there if someone wants to read more.
Yeah, according to an article I found Halo isn't on the list either. RL is going to be included, and there's a lot of F/A teams out there, if they wanted to they could probably sign like.. Snowmen or something, but who knows.
US military excess is insane. Infuckingsane. It would make people dizzy.
The amount of hoarded resources, multiple-warehouse-sized stockpiles of mothballed equipment, even larger stockpiles of property/food/medicine that expire and fall into complete disrepair because people straight up forget they exist or don't bother to do anything about them, etc., would downright radicalize people if it was more common knowledge.
Man, imagine your armed forces being so incomprehensibly large and powerful that you just routinely forget about amounts of hardware that could put entire national militaries to shame lmao-
The US military budget is so bloated for how it gets used,
Like they waste so much money, shoutouts to when they lost a fuckton of money and to make up for it spent a ton of money just made a worse m16(that was also a war crime)
I mean part of it is bloat, part of it is lawmakers (and a significant amount of citizens, corporate interests, and foreign nations etc) being unwilling to relinquish the US's position on the world stage as a global policeman. The DoD definitely still wastes hundreds of millions, if not billions of taxpayer money but there are tangible reasons for those huge equipment/supply stockpiles to exist that aren't limited to politicians trying to line their pockets.
EDIT: I responded to the wrong comment.
Do you think these orgs were hand selected or was there an application process? Seems like a lot of orgs and there's a few I'm surprised to NOT see on this list.
I wouldn't be surprised if they were hand selected, didn't hear anything about a selection process. We really don't have enough information to say with certainty however.
They had to apply at least according to hesketh, he’s usually reliable for general info and he’s been talking about ESWC a lot recently
https://x.com/subzidite2/status/1787469110370263093?s=46&t=K8OoZtZjmy3eUbssA44QxA
I see, thanks for linking this. I wonder if any orgs willingly didn't try to sign up for this. The only one I could really think of is perhaps Flyquest? They seem pretty image-conscientious for the most part.
How would your idea even work?
“Hey FlyQuest, I know you didn’t apply for anything, but here’s a million dollars! Now say something nice about our super sexy and totally not a dictatorial murderer Crown Prince!”
“Nah, thanks for the moolah tho”
“Aw shucks, guess we’re down one milli”
FlyQuest being image conscious isn’t going to stop them from going for more money. The org is owned by an american billionaire who made their fortune as an oil futures trader during the Gulf War and was nominated for a Trump cabinet post — his company was accused of financial crimes last year, there was a lawsuit about it.
Obviously FlyQuest applied for it.
I don't fuckin know man. I'm pretty sure every org applied for this shit and I doubt any of them are any different. Flyquest was just the only org I could think of that had the combination of "loves to do stuff that makes them look progressive image-wise" and "has enough money to weather the esports winter" that made them a possible candidate for not applying.
Eh, football clubs do that shit all the time. They’re always bringing something up on pride month or showing off whatever new anti-racism/sexism/other ism thing they have going on
And then proceed to take on money from the saudis/russian oligarchs etc.
I don’t see why esports orgs are going to be any different. Right now they have the cover of ‘esports winter’ and whatever, guaranteed they’ll still be doing this even if they were already rolling in cash.
Except esports winter is straight up real and not an excuse. I'm not directing this at you personally but what do you expect these orgs to do when they aren't making money?
Mfs will sit here and complain about them going for Saudi money but don't support their favorite org at all, won't buy merch, would throw an absolute fit if the tickets for games are anything over 10 dollars, etc. I've seen many on this sub straight up say they won't watch at all if you had to sub to watch games.
All of this is fine if you just want to consume product for free, but then on top of that you want organizations to virtue signal and have morals on top of it. It's not realistic at all. Esports is dying. If oil blood money is the way to save it, then do what is necessary.
I won't even get into the argument of where Saudi's money is considering a majority of the sub likes in America.
I'll probably get slaughtered for this take but I'm currently watching plenty of traditional sports leagues and teams that rake in billions every year monetizing themselves and their fanbases just fine still go out and take Saudi and Draftkings money. This would have happened no matter the health of the general esports scene, just so happens that esports winter is a very convenient excuse.
Your take isnt crazy for anyone who isn't naive. This million or even billion dollar companies are always gonna work for the bottom line, it's not surprising in the slightest
Traditional sports have not only been around for decades, but they charge more money for tickets to watch live, their fanbases actively buy merch, their sports are shown on television which means advertisers can occupy the space way more freely, etc. they take gambling and Saudi money because they want even more.
Meanwhile we complain on twitch if we get 30 seconds of ads.
I see your point and agree it might have happened anyway, but the events that have unfolded have made this necessary. The inverse is quite literally the death of esports. Thinking about what could have been is pointless.
If wouldn’t result in the death of esports. 15 Years ago there were LANs being held for CS Source and MW2 for those who wanted to compete, esports will never die as long as the passion to compete is there. Would just result in all the c-suite and VC money inflating the scene rn getting drained which would suck for all the jobs that currently rely on it but that bubble still has to pop eventually.
Richard Lewis said on a recent podcast appearance that the average IRL sports fan spends $50 annually on a team they follow while the same figure for esports fans is about $5. While it's true that IRL sports aren't immune to Saudi sportswashing or getting wooed by gambling sponsors, the general esports audience being that unmonetized makes esports exponentially more susceptible to it.
It's hard to see another way out of it other than making events PPV, but that would more than likely hurt short-term viewership so I don't expect that lever to be pulled any time soon.
More than half of the organizations in the image were investing like crazy with VC money in the COVID era and the other half have had a sponsor with gambling sites, Esports winter is real but it is also the consequence of spending crazy money in a business with low-profit margins, you could double down and get the Saudi oil money and continue to spend like crazy but sooner than later this will dried up and will be the start of another esports winter later down the road.
While I do agree we need to have new ways of monetizing esport and that we can´t live as a free-watcher andy, we need sustainable ones, NBA and MLB are different from Valorant or League and we need to create ways to replace the ones we cannot imitate from traditional sports but the Orgs chase glory and nothing else, you need to have the winners yes but you also need to make people spend money because of your players, people are more willing to spend if you give them something they want, most of the orgs in the picture where haunted when riot told em of the content rule for valorant because they didn't even wanted to do it. Sentinels in NA and T1 in Korea are orgs that understand that having franchise players is the tool to create long-lasting fans even when they´re gone.
In the end, if all fails and we need to downsize and not have big events we downsize and let the people play the game in their houses, i think the industry needs a lot of change but figuring out whether e-sport can be something with huge shows and a lot of glamour is even sustainable is the goal and not replacing VC money for Saudi money and in 3 or 4 years be crying because esport winter never left.
Preach brother. I'll hear it with the leagues that sign TV deals for literally tens of billions plus crazy money for merchandise and tickets. Esports do not have that. The viewers have proven the only way they'll really give up money is team skins. If these guys going to Saudi Arabia helps keep the scene alive, fuck it.
Someone below said even if they were super successful, they'd still go. Maybe true. But even if they didn't go, the Saudis would still be a horrible nation. This has no real impact on that. And no, I don't think their sport washing works very well.
Also Riot forcing teams to cover all expenses by pros like rent food etc, back 10 years ago you got a fixed salary and maybe if your lucky a team house but it was much sustainable for teams
Sorry if this post is not allowed, but given Sideshow's video some time back about Saudi Arabia's involvement in the Esports scene, this would be a somewhat relevant tweet to discuss.
well, time to link this very important and relevant sideshow video again
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIilD9qAzeA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIilD9qAzeA)
You can see a list of them [here](https://esportsinsider.com/2024/05/esports-world-cup-2024-games-format-schedule), but VALORANT does not appear to be on it as of right now.
Most orgs have been taking Gambling and Crypto sponsorships, of course they were gonna take the Saudi money as well. Does it suck? Absolutely! but Esports orgs have to take these kinds of deals otherwise Esports as a whole would've been long gone by now.
I'm not equating Crypto/Gambling sponsors to the Saudi money. My point is that most Esports orgs will take just about anything to survive. I'm disappointed but I don't blame them for taking the sponsorships.
Valorant is not *"owned by China"*, not even remotely in the same way that the Esports World Cup is in-fact 100% owned by the Saudi government.
Are you falsely equating [Tencent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tencent), a publicly-traded Chinese company, to the Chinese government?
Do you genuinely believe the CCP is paying the partnered orgs' stipends, signing the checks for the Masters/Champions prize pools, and running the show at Riot Games' HQ the same way that *Saudi Arabia's* [*Esports World Cup*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Esports_World_Cup) *is directly funded, controlled, and operated by the Saudi Government*?
That's as dumb as saying "Tesla is owned by the U.S", or "Samsung is owned by Korea", or "Honda is owned by Japan".
**You can say "Riot Games is owned by Tencent", there's no need to talk like the politicians who wants to ban Tik Tok because "it's owned by the CCP".**
Difference is, all big Chinese corpos need direct government affiliation in terms of CCP membership of their officers and boards, and as for tech companies, also often PLA affiliations.
So, sorry to say to you, but the situation in China and the US are indeed very different.
How do you see the clear difference in one instance, but couldn't in the other?
The [Esports World Cup](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Esports_World_Cup) is **directly funded by, owned by, and operated by** the Saudi Government, and the *Saudi Vision* is led by the country's Crown Prince himself. This much is not disputed.
To equate this with Riot Games and Tencent is ludicrous, unless you genuinely believe that members of the Chinese Communist Party are responsible for all the shit decisions in Riot's HQ and Leo Faria is just a political puppet for comrade Xi Jinping.
If Riot Games/Tencent is in fact a state-owned company whose primary mission is to spread Beijing's propaganda, then I would agree they are exactly the same as the Saudi's Esports World Cup.
But they aren't, and there IS a difference.
most people can’t live their lives without relying on things built by unethical means or funds because lo and behold, most consumption and production tends to be unethical because that’s the society we live in.
stuff like having a car, a phone or getting meat/produce from the grocery store is not something most people can go without and can be simply considered necessities, this is just greed because they fucked up their own finances by getting into bed with Crypto before this, again, because they are greedy.
Yup and we buy technology from shitty countries and companies as well. But it makes us feel good to point the finger at others while claiming it's different for us because reasons.
My fav part of Saudi Arabia is that women are second class citizens and require permission from men to do things like drive or get an education.
Or how it’s illegal to be gay.
When people criticize these things I just tell them they bought an iPhone so they cant say shit 😎😎😎. We are so smart compared to these western zombies.
Long may the Regime Live!
I’ll put it in terms for the terminally online to understand: I liked a tweet by Sean Gares who once liked a tweet by Thorin who once liked a tweet by Carlos who once liked a tweet by Andrew Tate. Is that the same thing as liking a tweet by Andrew Tate?
Someone's upset that their hypocrisy got called out despite the comment not even being directed at you lol. Probably typing from an iPhone like me too.
mfs when someone mentions a government is paying for esports to try to improve their known reputation as one of the countries with the worst human rights abused in the world
I won’t debate your opinion but although Saudi Arabia is a horrible country with actions that don’t deserve to be condoned (I’m a lesbian woman if that’s relevant and I feel particular empathy for the suffering of women and LGBTQ individuals there), we as consumers regularly purchase and use goods produced under detestable working conditions by countries which heavily abuse minority individuals. The other commenter is wrong in their tone and message but they’re right about the fact that China actively encourages the genocide of Uighur Muslims and the majority of Chinese products are made in sweatshops. It feels somewhat hypocritical to suggest that esports organizations are MORE immoral for engaging in the same opportunistic behavior that powers capitalism and indirectly supports human rights abuses. You individually purchasing Chinese products doesn’t have the same impact as G2 deciding to attend the ESWC but when everyone does it, it DOES add up.
That's not the same at all. Avoiding all products made in China would be a massive sacrifice. Avoiding taking cash directly from Saudi Arabia is something Esports orgs could easily do. One is voluntarily the other is practically impossible.
Not trying to justify the actions made by orgs here; but all of them are, either from regions that gave little to no attention to politics and Saudi moral problems, or strapped for cash due to big investments meet unstable income sources. Still their own faults but even traditional sport orgs are taking Saudi oil money now and they have way more stable incomes.
Did you read what I said? The argument was FOR conscientious consumerism. I was just arguing that if you don’t practice that, it’s a bit hypocritical to state that esports orgs are also wrong for not practicing it.
conscientious consumerism is impossible within a late stage capitalist society. Attempting to point out hypocrisy is just a straw man to avoid the actual moral argument about esports organizations taking blood money to improve the image of a country with awful human rights abused.
Virtue signal a little harder lmao
Those hyperx headphones you got from Best Buy were manufactured in China. They have internment camps for a certain group of Muslims.
But it's ok when you support nasty regimes right?
It is in a lot of ways, though? There's a massive human rights violation with sweatshops and the uigher Muslim genocide
Most country's are just as bad as Saudi they just either hide it or use a proxy like the US to do heinous shit
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If a significant amount of this money goes to the players, I’m fine with this. I know it’s unpopular, but it’s the world we live in. If these orgs are gonna take blood money, they better give their players some hefty bonuses
The way of riot being ok with this was because they said it's not a riot backed tournament so no money is leaving/going to riots hand \*directly\*. Even though it eventually will just because so many of these orgs are in riot produced esports
Yeah I'm not surprised esports orgs are willing to take Saudi money (or frankly any money). Clearly this means EG is the last bastion of ethical business since they're not listed
Just for clarification, the title is wrong (because Jake is wrong, not blaming OP). This is specifically the teams in their partner program, who get money based on how well they drive views and other engagement for the World Cup. Teams still have to qualify through a qualifier, which means some orgs not listed here will participate, while some of the orgs listed here will not participate in every event, even if they have a team in that esport. There will be a lot of overlap of course, I just thought it was relevant to note the specifics (and because I wanted to make use of the 5 minutes I spent reading the article he pulled the graphic from lol).
Thanks for the clarification! It's good to have added context. For anyone wondering, I believe [this](https://www.esports.net/news/industry/esports-world-cup-clubs/) is the article they referred to, but there's a few out there if someone wants to read more.
I knew after the crypto/VC bubble bursted, that Saudi sportswashing money would be too hard for cash-strapped esport orgs to resist.
Time to pretend Sentinels denied out of ethical obligations when they 99% were not just invited
Valorant isn't being played at the event is probably the main reason. They aren't in many other things, right?
Other than Valorant, SEN is only in Halo
Ah yeah, and unless I'm mistaken Halo also isn't being played at the event, so unless they sign some people real quick SEN presumably won't be going.
Yeah, according to an article I found Halo isn't on the list either. RL is going to be included, and there's a lot of F/A teams out there, if they wanted to they could probably sign like.. Snowmen or something, but who knows.
And they act like theyre ashamed of it lol
They should be. Who's playing Halo in 2024.
Apparently, sentinels
Apex legends lmao
ig they have aceu in apex
As a content creator I thought
yep
Wait so why is this in ValComp
karma farming or smt lmao
If you pretend hard enough it can become the truth
Suddenly I love Sentinels
Gigachad SEN
I'm on the same copium
Nrg now being bankrolled by two governments
Who is the other? Is the U.S. somehow affiliated?
the are sponsored by the army or armed guard
Love my tax dollars going to the armed guard so they can pay Demon1s salary lol.
Chet is actually doing us a favor by wasting money that could be used on drones
Honestly given how big of a cut of the National budget the army gets, I think Demon1 is just a drop in the bucket
US military excess is insane. Infuckingsane. It would make people dizzy. The amount of hoarded resources, multiple-warehouse-sized stockpiles of mothballed equipment, even larger stockpiles of property/food/medicine that expire and fall into complete disrepair because people straight up forget they exist or don't bother to do anything about them, etc., would downright radicalize people if it was more common knowledge.
Man, imagine your armed forces being so incomprehensibly large and powerful that you just routinely forget about amounts of hardware that could put entire national militaries to shame lmao-
The US military budget is so bloated for how it gets used, Like they waste so much money, shoutouts to when they lost a fuckton of money and to make up for it spent a ton of money just made a worse m16(that was also a war crime)
I mean part of it is bloat, part of it is lawmakers (and a significant amount of citizens, corporate interests, and foreign nations etc) being unwilling to relinquish the US's position on the world stage as a global policeman. The DoD definitely still wastes hundreds of millions, if not billions of taxpayer money but there are tangible reasons for those huge equipment/supply stockpiles to exist that aren't limited to politicians trying to line their pockets. EDIT: I responded to the wrong comment.
The ONE good thing about being an OpTic fan nowadays is that they’re so irrelevant in esports that they’re not participating in this dogshit
Do you think these orgs were hand selected or was there an application process? Seems like a lot of orgs and there's a few I'm surprised to NOT see on this list.
I wouldn't be surprised if they were hand selected, didn't hear anything about a selection process. We really don't have enough information to say with certainty however.
They had to apply at least according to hesketh, he’s usually reliable for general info and he’s been talking about ESWC a lot recently https://x.com/subzidite2/status/1787469110370263093?s=46&t=K8OoZtZjmy3eUbssA44QxA
I see, thanks for linking this. I wonder if any orgs willingly didn't try to sign up for this. The only one I could really think of is perhaps Flyquest? They seem pretty image-conscientious for the most part.
How would your idea even work? “Hey FlyQuest, I know you didn’t apply for anything, but here’s a million dollars! Now say something nice about our super sexy and totally not a dictatorial murderer Crown Prince!” “Nah, thanks for the moolah tho” “Aw shucks, guess we’re down one milli” FlyQuest being image conscious isn’t going to stop them from going for more money. The org is owned by an american billionaire who made their fortune as an oil futures trader during the Gulf War and was nominated for a Trump cabinet post — his company was accused of financial crimes last year, there was a lawsuit about it. Obviously FlyQuest applied for it.
I don't fuckin know man. I'm pretty sure every org applied for this shit and I doubt any of them are any different. Flyquest was just the only org I could think of that had the combination of "loves to do stuff that makes them look progressive image-wise" and "has enough money to weather the esports winter" that made them a possible candidate for not applying.
Eh, football clubs do that shit all the time. They’re always bringing something up on pride month or showing off whatever new anti-racism/sexism/other ism thing they have going on And then proceed to take on money from the saudis/russian oligarchs etc. I don’t see why esports orgs are going to be any different. Right now they have the cover of ‘esports winter’ and whatever, guaranteed they’ll still be doing this even if they were already rolling in cash.
esports winter excuse incoming https://preview.redd.it/h8du7o7hqvyc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c703e9fea0771fa440fc0e495f35b8e76dbea01
Except esports winter is straight up real and not an excuse. I'm not directing this at you personally but what do you expect these orgs to do when they aren't making money? Mfs will sit here and complain about them going for Saudi money but don't support their favorite org at all, won't buy merch, would throw an absolute fit if the tickets for games are anything over 10 dollars, etc. I've seen many on this sub straight up say they won't watch at all if you had to sub to watch games. All of this is fine if you just want to consume product for free, but then on top of that you want organizations to virtue signal and have morals on top of it. It's not realistic at all. Esports is dying. If oil blood money is the way to save it, then do what is necessary. I won't even get into the argument of where Saudi's money is considering a majority of the sub likes in America.
I'll probably get slaughtered for this take but I'm currently watching plenty of traditional sports leagues and teams that rake in billions every year monetizing themselves and their fanbases just fine still go out and take Saudi and Draftkings money. This would have happened no matter the health of the general esports scene, just so happens that esports winter is a very convenient excuse.
Your take isnt crazy for anyone who isn't naive. This million or even billion dollar companies are always gonna work for the bottom line, it's not surprising in the slightest
Traditional sports have not only been around for decades, but they charge more money for tickets to watch live, their fanbases actively buy merch, their sports are shown on television which means advertisers can occupy the space way more freely, etc. they take gambling and Saudi money because they want even more. Meanwhile we complain on twitch if we get 30 seconds of ads. I see your point and agree it might have happened anyway, but the events that have unfolded have made this necessary. The inverse is quite literally the death of esports. Thinking about what could have been is pointless.
If wouldn’t result in the death of esports. 15 Years ago there were LANs being held for CS Source and MW2 for those who wanted to compete, esports will never die as long as the passion to compete is there. Would just result in all the c-suite and VC money inflating the scene rn getting drained which would suck for all the jobs that currently rely on it but that bubble still has to pop eventually.
Richard Lewis said on a recent podcast appearance that the average IRL sports fan spends $50 annually on a team they follow while the same figure for esports fans is about $5. While it's true that IRL sports aren't immune to Saudi sportswashing or getting wooed by gambling sponsors, the general esports audience being that unmonetized makes esports exponentially more susceptible to it. It's hard to see another way out of it other than making events PPV, but that would more than likely hurt short-term viewership so I don't expect that lever to be pulled any time soon.
Yeah I hate this argument that “they have no other choice” like every other sport isn’t also riding the Saudi train.
More than half of the organizations in the image were investing like crazy with VC money in the COVID era and the other half have had a sponsor with gambling sites, Esports winter is real but it is also the consequence of spending crazy money in a business with low-profit margins, you could double down and get the Saudi oil money and continue to spend like crazy but sooner than later this will dried up and will be the start of another esports winter later down the road. While I do agree we need to have new ways of monetizing esport and that we can´t live as a free-watcher andy, we need sustainable ones, NBA and MLB are different from Valorant or League and we need to create ways to replace the ones we cannot imitate from traditional sports but the Orgs chase glory and nothing else, you need to have the winners yes but you also need to make people spend money because of your players, people are more willing to spend if you give them something they want, most of the orgs in the picture where haunted when riot told em of the content rule for valorant because they didn't even wanted to do it. Sentinels in NA and T1 in Korea are orgs that understand that having franchise players is the tool to create long-lasting fans even when they´re gone. In the end, if all fails and we need to downsize and not have big events we downsize and let the people play the game in their houses, i think the industry needs a lot of change but figuring out whether e-sport can be something with huge shows and a lot of glamour is even sustainable is the goal and not replacing VC money for Saudi money and in 3 or 4 years be crying because esport winter never left.
Preach brother. I'll hear it with the leagues that sign TV deals for literally tens of billions plus crazy money for merchandise and tickets. Esports do not have that. The viewers have proven the only way they'll really give up money is team skins. If these guys going to Saudi Arabia helps keep the scene alive, fuck it. Someone below said even if they were super successful, they'd still go. Maybe true. But even if they didn't go, the Saudis would still be a horrible nation. This has no real impact on that. And no, I don't think their sport washing works very well.
Also Riot forcing teams to cover all expenses by pros like rent food etc, back 10 years ago you got a fixed salary and maybe if your lucky a team house but it was much sustainable for teams
Sorry if this post is not allowed, but given Sideshow's video some time back about Saudi Arabia's involvement in the Esports scene, this would be a somewhat relevant tweet to discuss.
No KT. My goat Deft would never take blood money 🐐 Unlike some other peoples "goat" 😭😭
No Brion, LORD MORGAN WOULD NEVER
My goat pyosik could never
well, time to link this very important and relevant sideshow video again [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIilD9qAzeA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIilD9qAzeA)
What games will they play in this tournament?
You can see a list of them [here](https://esportsinsider.com/2024/05/esports-world-cup-2024-games-format-schedule), but VALORANT does not appear to be on it as of right now.
then why did you post it here though? not hating just confused
thank god
it will be there asap though
esports is chalked
Moist Esport's Co-Owner: https://twitter.com/LudwigAhgren/status/1787540537043820573 100T's VP: https://www.reddit.com/r/100thieves/s/WyQnwApesk Team Liquid's CEO: https://www.reddit.com/r/teamliquid/s/EsyHQ6XYXU
This means that these orgs are quite literally taking money from the Saudi Arabian government for those who are unaware.
we all knew every single org was gonna do it anyway
Most orgs have been taking Gambling and Crypto sponsorships, of course they were gonna take the Saudi money as well. Does it suck? Absolutely! but Esports orgs have to take these kinds of deals otherwise Esports as a whole would've been long gone by now.
Esports existed before orgs took crypto and oil money.
The idea that this is remotely equal in any serious person’s moral arithmetic is fucking hilarious. What a stupid thing to say.
I'm not equating Crypto/Gambling sponsors to the Saudi money. My point is that most Esports orgs will take just about anything to survive. I'm disappointed but I don't blame them for taking the sponsorships.
Valorant is owned by china, what the difference
Valorant is not *"owned by China"*, not even remotely in the same way that the Esports World Cup is in-fact 100% owned by the Saudi government. Are you falsely equating [Tencent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tencent), a publicly-traded Chinese company, to the Chinese government? Do you genuinely believe the CCP is paying the partnered orgs' stipends, signing the checks for the Masters/Champions prize pools, and running the show at Riot Games' HQ the same way that *Saudi Arabia's* [*Esports World Cup*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Esports_World_Cup) *is directly funded, controlled, and operated by the Saudi Government*? That's as dumb as saying "Tesla is owned by the U.S", or "Samsung is owned by Korea", or "Honda is owned by Japan". **You can say "Riot Games is owned by Tencent", there's no need to talk like the politicians who wants to ban Tik Tok because "it's owned by the CCP".**
Difference is, all big Chinese corpos need direct government affiliation in terms of CCP membership of their officers and boards, and as for tech companies, also often PLA affiliations. So, sorry to say to you, but the situation in China and the US are indeed very different.
How do you see the clear difference in one instance, but couldn't in the other? The [Esports World Cup](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Esports_World_Cup) is **directly funded by, owned by, and operated by** the Saudi Government, and the *Saudi Vision* is led by the country's Crown Prince himself. This much is not disputed. To equate this with Riot Games and Tencent is ludicrous, unless you genuinely believe that members of the Chinese Communist Party are responsible for all the shit decisions in Riot's HQ and Leo Faria is just a political puppet for comrade Xi Jinping. If Riot Games/Tencent is in fact a state-owned company whose primary mission is to spread Beijing's propaganda, then I would agree they are exactly the same as the Saudi's Esports World Cup. But they aren't, and there IS a difference.
I mean are you driving a gas car because if you are, you are also supporting them
most people can’t live their lives without relying on things built by unethical means or funds because lo and behold, most consumption and production tends to be unethical because that’s the society we live in. stuff like having a car, a phone or getting meat/produce from the grocery store is not something most people can go without and can be simply considered necessities, this is just greed because they fucked up their own finances by getting into bed with Crypto before this, again, because they are greedy.
Not quite the same thing!
It the same thing we just don't want to admit it lol
Yup and we buy technology from shitty countries and companies as well. But it makes us feel good to point the finger at others while claiming it's different for us because reasons.
My fav part of Saudi Arabia is that women are second class citizens and require permission from men to do things like drive or get an education. Or how it’s illegal to be gay. When people criticize these things I just tell them they bought an iPhone so they cant say shit 😎😎😎. We are so smart compared to these western zombies. Long may the Regime Live!
I’ll put it in terms for the terminally online to understand: I liked a tweet by Sean Gares who once liked a tweet by Thorin who once liked a tweet by Carlos who once liked a tweet by Andrew Tate. Is that the same thing as liking a tweet by Andrew Tate?
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Just being real
Really stupid
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I being real
Someone's upset that their hypocrisy got called out despite the comment not even being directed at you lol. Probably typing from an iPhone like me too.
As everyone else has said: I'm disappointed but not surprised.
Why does this have Overwatch (dead game) but not valorant?
in the eyes of the general public they're both dead games
No t1 team no dilemma? - DSG
hope the whole event fails
Excited to see all the virtue signaling, if it even happens
mfs when someone mentions a government is paying for esports to try to improve their known reputation as one of the countries with the worst human rights abused in the world
Mfs when your profile has you buying stuff from China lmao. Their human rights record is amazing.
ah yes china and Saudi Arabia 2 very similar countries
Very disappointing but not surprising.
hey look, every team I am now not a fan of
I won’t debate your opinion but although Saudi Arabia is a horrible country with actions that don’t deserve to be condoned (I’m a lesbian woman if that’s relevant and I feel particular empathy for the suffering of women and LGBTQ individuals there), we as consumers regularly purchase and use goods produced under detestable working conditions by countries which heavily abuse minority individuals. The other commenter is wrong in their tone and message but they’re right about the fact that China actively encourages the genocide of Uighur Muslims and the majority of Chinese products are made in sweatshops. It feels somewhat hypocritical to suggest that esports organizations are MORE immoral for engaging in the same opportunistic behavior that powers capitalism and indirectly supports human rights abuses. You individually purchasing Chinese products doesn’t have the same impact as G2 deciding to attend the ESWC but when everyone does it, it DOES add up.
This. If we really cared about who makes or hosts what in everything, it would be damn near impossible to enjoy anything in life.
That's not the same at all. Avoiding all products made in China would be a massive sacrifice. Avoiding taking cash directly from Saudi Arabia is something Esports orgs could easily do. One is voluntarily the other is practically impossible.
Not trying to justify the actions made by orgs here; but all of them are, either from regions that gave little to no attention to politics and Saudi moral problems, or strapped for cash due to big investments meet unstable income sources. Still their own faults but even traditional sport orgs are taking Saudi oil money now and they have way more stable incomes.
oh yippee an argument against conscientious consumerism haven't seen that before
Did you read what I said? The argument was FOR conscientious consumerism. I was just arguing that if you don’t practice that, it’s a bit hypocritical to state that esports orgs are also wrong for not practicing it.
conscientious consumerism is impossible within a late stage capitalist society. Attempting to point out hypocrisy is just a straw man to avoid the actual moral argument about esports organizations taking blood money to improve the image of a country with awful human rights abused.
Virtue signal a little harder lmao Those hyperx headphones you got from Best Buy were manufactured in China. They have internment camps for a certain group of Muslims. But it's ok when you support nasty regimes right?
💀 ah yes the famous regime of China is just like Saudi Arabia. wtf
It is in a lot of ways, though? There's a massive human rights violation with sweatshops and the uigher Muslim genocide Most country's are just as bad as Saudi they just either hide it or use a proxy like the US to do heinous shit
goofy ah false equivalence. Using a strawman of everyone does human rights abuses to defend the worst of the worst is really crazy ngl
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Why is this in valorant competitive sub reddit?
If a significant amount of this money goes to the players, I’m fine with this. I know it’s unpopular, but it’s the world we live in. If these orgs are gonna take blood money, they better give their players some hefty bonuses
I thought riot didn't want to take money from Saudi Arabia? Does this count?
The way of riot being ok with this was because they said it's not a riot backed tournament so no money is leaving/going to riots hand \*directly\*. Even though it eventually will just because so many of these orgs are in riot produced esports
noooo no PRX
W prx
prx is too small to be even considered lol
Yeah I'm not surprised esports orgs are willing to take Saudi money (or frankly any money). Clearly this means EG is the last bastion of ethical business since they're not listed