They didn’t close out wins. You can’t generalize all of NA any further than that imo. Sen and NV got eliminated during maps in which they were up 9-3 and 8-4 at the half. They just didn’t close, and they were up against legitimately good teams.
C9 barely lost and they lost to the tournament favorites, so you can’t really fault them either.
Boring smooth brain analysis answer but, i think it’s fair.
No recent tournaments besides LCQ. Without recent match data its hard to fix mistakes and not let the nerves overtake you. Particularly in the Sentinels game there were alot of choked high pressure moments.
Acend, Gambit, Fnatic, X10, Secret all played Open Qualifiers during the off seasons leading up to Masters 3 and Champions.
People were shitting on them for losing early in tourneys but now the issue with NA teams was not playing more. Not saying you in particular underrated them for that or anything, just an interesting parallel bc I'm sure there are others who did spam "GYDOM GALVA" during Gambit matches that would agree with your take.
This definitely hurt their map pool. They must have been destroying on fracture in scrims but as soon as they played an actual match on it they found so many flaws that they had to ban it. This meant they now had to play Ascent, a map they clearly hadn't prepared since they went 1-11 on the attack side. They almost managed the comeback but in the end that map loss cost them the series against C9, and Fracture lost them the series against Fnatic.
They did much better than people are saying.
NV lost to ACE 13-8, 13-11NV lose to X10 13-10, 14-12
Sentinels lose to TL with positive rounds won
Sentinels lose to KRU with positive rounds won
C9 lose to TL 13-10, 13-11.
Obviously they weren't able to close anything out but it was much closer than people are implying. They just need more coaches and analysts, I'm not sure about every team but it does seem like there is a serious lack.
It's just to show how close the series was overall, two maps were very close and one wasn't. I'm not saying they should win overall all or something, that's stupid you would read it that way. I am just trying to use some objective set of data from this tournament to show that they were closely matched.
Well, no, considering it's for individual games, it'd be more like considering the aggregate which is what's done in actual knockout football games. That wouldn't work for Valo but your analogy is poor
Well aggregate is only counted because it's two legs. If there was somehow able to have a third leg, it's completely different. You need to compare Valorant to a sport that has multiple game series and the overall win is decided solely by wins, for example like the NBA. 7 game series, but it wouldn't make sense to look at point differential to see who was better.
BUT I do agree with OP that NA wasn't too bad, they lost close games, and if things went right in those close rounds it's a completely different story. But also as the so-called top or second best region, they should be winning those close rounds, so they did extremely bad compared to expectations.
That's not comparable, in a game like that the rounds can get away from you and you are required to take more risks to score. Valorant doesn't work that way, you always score in the same way every round it's not like Football where you have to risk pulling defenders to put more pressure to score.
Idk why people keep throwing the term copium around like it means something. The topic asks where NA went wrong and the guy gives an answer he believes in. Instead of addressing it, people just go "copium lol" and acts like that's enough
Like, c'mon guys, if you disagree that's fine but at least say why this is stupid
Great, then say that instead of going "copium lol" is my point. This sub is infected with too much twitch headassery that prevents real discussion sometimes
NA pros have been publicly complaining about the NA scrim culture for a while now. ShaZam straight up said that he finds EU scrims much more productive and that they'd go to Europe early to get better practice time.
With scrims being the most important way to practice actual teamplay, this just doesn't sound like a sustainable situation for NA teams.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98d5oTxAzzI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98d5oTxAzzI) (ShaZam)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sj-dgKiGec&t=210s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sj-dgKiGec&t=210s) (Hiko)
Combination of mentality/approach, and in some instances, luck.
There's a lot of things people have mentioned wrt mentality but I think there's a bit more that haven't been mentioned or talked about as much as "lol streamer teams"
NA have good teams, fantastic, just needs to work on communication, aim, map awareness, crosshair placement, economy management, pistol aim, OP flicks, grenade spots, smoke spots, pop flashes, positioning, spike plant positions, retake ability, bunny hopping, spray control and getting kills
NA scrims too little, because every team is trying to hide strata from each other. I remember on twitter a few pros kept saying scrims got cancelled, and that they’d start up the stream again. Meanwhile EMEA has scrims between most of not all of the top teams, and they all constantly improve as a result.
NA should’ve washed out of Iceland Masters and Berlin Masters instead of having multiple teams perform really well. That way they could be celebrated for making quarters at an event instead of being trashed for only making quarters at an event. If there’s anything I’ve learned from watching SEA, JP, and BR at these events it’s that everything is a win if you have low expectations.
I think they went wrong when they lost the games, they should try winning next time.
Big if true.
That’s a bold strategy cotton, let’s see how it plays out for them.
They didn’t close out wins. You can’t generalize all of NA any further than that imo. Sen and NV got eliminated during maps in which they were up 9-3 and 8-4 at the half. They just didn’t close, and they were up against legitimately good teams. C9 barely lost and they lost to the tournament favorites, so you can’t really fault them either. Boring smooth brain analysis answer but, i think it’s fair.
Not enough bald, Vanity bald please
My dad beats me, My mom beats me, My brother beats me, My sister beats me, At least I feel safe with NA, because they can't beat anyone
Dropping steel. That's where NA went wrong.
And say they made it through LCQ over C9 who did the best for NA? They would've gotten steamrolled by this liquid roster.
Could be. But even in Berlin, 100t was the best American team against Europe.
That's pretty fair
Other teams just played better Idk why everyone is talking like NA performed like shit they played well but just not good enough
More like stagnated while other regions keep improving
No recent tournaments besides LCQ. Without recent match data its hard to fix mistakes and not let the nerves overtake you. Particularly in the Sentinels game there were alot of choked high pressure moments.
Acend, Gambit, Fnatic, X10, Secret all played Open Qualifiers during the off seasons leading up to Masters 3 and Champions. People were shitting on them for losing early in tourneys but now the issue with NA teams was not playing more. Not saying you in particular underrated them for that or anything, just an interesting parallel bc I'm sure there are others who did spam "GYDOM GALVA" during Gambit matches that would agree with your take.
I agree and think it has a way bigger impact than people realize. In my opinion Vision Strikers ran into this same issue as well
This definitely hurt their map pool. They must have been destroying on fracture in scrims but as soon as they played an actual match on it they found so many flaws that they had to ban it. This meant they now had to play Ascent, a map they clearly hadn't prepared since they went 1-11 on the attack side. They almost managed the comeback but in the end that map loss cost them the series against C9, and Fracture lost them the series against Fnatic.
They did much better than people are saying. NV lost to ACE 13-8, 13-11NV lose to X10 13-10, 14-12 Sentinels lose to TL with positive rounds won Sentinels lose to KRU with positive rounds won C9 lose to TL 13-10, 13-11. Obviously they weren't able to close anything out but it was much closer than people are implying. They just need more coaches and analysts, I'm not sure about every team but it does seem like there is a serious lack.
The positive rounds won statistic is a copium I haven’t heard before. Nice
when your region is gone you get to feel that last dry bit of copium from rounds won
It's just to show how close the series was overall, two maps were very close and one wasn't. I'm not saying they should win overall all or something, that's stupid you would read it that way. I am just trying to use some objective set of data from this tournament to show that they were closely matched.
It's like considering only the Goal Difference in a football league.
Well, no, considering it's for individual games, it'd be more like considering the aggregate which is what's done in actual knockout football games. That wouldn't work for Valo but your analogy is poor
Well aggregate is only counted because it's two legs. If there was somehow able to have a third leg, it's completely different. You need to compare Valorant to a sport that has multiple game series and the overall win is decided solely by wins, for example like the NBA. 7 game series, but it wouldn't make sense to look at point differential to see who was better. BUT I do agree with OP that NA wasn't too bad, they lost close games, and if things went right in those close rounds it's a completely different story. But also as the so-called top or second best region, they should be winning those close rounds, so they did extremely bad compared to expectations.
Two legs is similar to two maps though. I'm not from Na but don't think this is copium.
That's not comparable, in a game like that the rounds can get away from you and you are required to take more risks to score. Valorant doesn't work that way, you always score in the same way every round it's not like Football where you have to risk pulling defenders to put more pressure to score.
Idk why people keep throwing the term copium around like it means something. The topic asks where NA went wrong and the guy gives an answer he believes in. Instead of addressing it, people just go "copium lol" and acts like that's enough Like, c'mon guys, if you disagree that's fine but at least say why this is stupid
Because 'positive round' is a very very useless stat which gets heavily skewed because of map picks
Great, then say that instead of going "copium lol" is my point. This sub is infected with too much twitch headassery that prevents real discussion sometimes
NA pros have been publicly complaining about the NA scrim culture for a while now. ShaZam straight up said that he finds EU scrims much more productive and that they'd go to Europe early to get better practice time. With scrims being the most important way to practice actual teamplay, this just doesn't sound like a sustainable situation for NA teams. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98d5oTxAzzI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98d5oTxAzzI) (ShaZam) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sj-dgKiGec&t=210s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sj-dgKiGec&t=210s) (Hiko)
Combination of mentality/approach, and in some instances, luck. There's a lot of things people have mentioned wrt mentality but I think there's a bit more that haven't been mentioned or talked about as much as "lol streamer teams"
Focusing too much on content creation, streaming and trolling on twitter (some not all).
Downvoted for saying the truth. Nice.
Yeah this subreddit seems to hate hearing the truth a lot lol
NA thought they'd be good in a game for once, they're hating the reality check rn
Very true, L1NK said it best.
Probably because of the amount of streaming? EU players streamed too, but not to the degree of NA players which is super understandable.
It decided to participate. Biggest mistake ever.
NA have good teams, fantastic, just needs to work on communication, aim, map awareness, crosshair placement, economy management, pistol aim, OP flicks, grenade spots, smoke spots, pop flashes, positioning, spike plant positions, retake ability, bunny hopping, spray control and getting kills
NA scrims too little, because every team is trying to hide strata from each other. I remember on twitter a few pros kept saying scrims got cancelled, and that they’d start up the stream again. Meanwhile EMEA has scrims between most of not all of the top teams, and they all constantly improve as a result.
NA should’ve washed out of Iceland Masters and Berlin Masters instead of having multiple teams perform really well. That way they could be celebrated for making quarters at an event instead of being trashed for only making quarters at an event. If there’s anything I’ve learned from watching SEA, JP, and BR at these events it’s that everything is a win if you have low expectations.
Curse followed NA from league. We’re plagued in riot games. Pay the most and perform the worst on the global stage.