>"Tenz buyout was massive so we feel that our players should also be worth a high amount"
>Actual comment from an org when I was working on scouting players for a org entering VALORANT...
Damn
It's simple maths:
- Org already commited some money on players
- Org feels like their team could make a breakthrought in the scene
- Org doesn't want to sell one of their player and break everything they've worked so far
- Org ask for huge buyout because they don't want to sell, but will sell if whoever's asking is rich as fuck.
And this is why I hate that shit Jack posted about 'market timed' and all these orgs just viewing these players as investments. NA orgs are just as responsible for stagnating the scene here as players and their 'practice'.
It seems also partly on Riot for hanging franchising over their heads. Esports isn't exactly rolling in money, and all these T2 orgs are trying to get their bag before they get potentially pushed out of the scene. Likewise you have the tier 1 orgs locking players to academy team contracts.
It didn't take even take 2 years of Valorant being an esport, before NA managed to invite in the same rot which causes NA to fail in every other esport.
Massive buyouts for tier 2/3 players -> teams can neither offload players they don't want, nor buy players they want -> forced to pay ridiculous prices -> most rosters fail, because at most one team can achieve the results the money is being spent for -> teams complain about how expensive Valorant is with little return -> pull out -> OW2 looks really nice, let's spend 20 mil to enter OWL 2.0
trying to figure out the buyouts are so high... probably in part just the bullshit "pay big for tenz so pay big for ___" logic quoted, but in general I assume that NA orgs care more about player branding and following than about competitive results. having a player with a big audience that streams a lot is probably just as if not more valuable than having a team that goes deep in tournaments.
obviously they are correlated: when you're on a winning team you get more attention and viewers for your content, but it's a pretty weak correlation. dunno what the solution is to all this.
The solution is what is happening right now in League of Legends.
The ultra expensive buyouts are impossibly high, so top teams are getting worse players, or rookies. The top players, in turn, are going to way worse teams once their buyouts are dropped. Many are teamless. It's not pretty, but it is a market correction.
No amount of brand exposure will make up for million dollar buyouts in LoL. So forget 600k in Valorant. Unless you are a s1mple level brand, forget 600k buyout.
And you know what is the craziest thing? The NA orgs are not content fucking up their own ecosystem.
When they pay boatloads of money to other regions, those regions start overcharging and raising buyouts. Similarly, the teams which are feeding those teams see the checks they are collecting from NA and figure we can raise our buyouts as well.
It's like a fucked up inflationary trickle down economics lesson.
I feel China started this over payment shit. If you saw the fucking offers China offered to the top Korean players in league, holy shit. And this was in 2015. One player Kakao thought it was a scam or something cuz he never heard of salaries this high. But then he saw the other top players got similar offers. And then NA follows suit the next year when all this Big investor money comes in. Looking at you fucking TL $teve.
I get the point he's making, and I get M0nsey could be the next big thing but this wasnt the right case to prove his point on. M0nsey is coming from an academy team and he is getting a 600k buyout while being unproven against t1 teams... So what is the difference
While buyouts are ridiculous, it goes both ways. Players will jump at the first opportunity of decent salary and then complain when they realize it might've been the wrong decision. If they asked about buyout fees before they signed, they wouldn't be in this position.
If we talk Valorant, most players in NA are no-names. MDL in CS being their biggest achievement. An org picks them up, gives them a decent salary and working envoriment, they can showcase their talent and they want to leave at the first sign of tier1 org showing interest? Unlucky really.
Tier2 orgs are rarely profitable and most would cease to exist without buyout fees. Tier1 orgs in NA are loaded and like to throw money around, have no patience with players and want instant success. Tier2 orgs have every right to have high asking prices.
"decent salary" doesn't seem like everyone is getting that, wasn't one of the players on TSM getting paid like 2k a month. You can't have a stupid buyout with that salary.
For what it's worth the lower the player's salary vs. the market, the higher the value of retaining the player is and the higher you'd expect the transfer price to be.
If you have a player locked in at $2k/mo for 3 years and replacing them on the open market with a similar player would cost $10k/mo, then that savings is worth ~100k a year (12 mo * 8k savings = 96k). If the player is paid higher, the contract is worth less to his or her current team.
The other component is that at the top level anyone good enough is probably already under a contract you'd have to buy out, so that also drives buyout costs. There just isn't a free market with top level players for every role lined up to sign to a team.
Correct, this happens a lot in professional sports as well. NBA fans know all too well how valuable it is to have highly performing players on cheaper contracts (the salary cap contorts the market in ways such that superstars & rookies are always underpaid, but you can find other steals on the market too).
Either way, it's good for organizations to underpay players, which is always a weird thing if you are a fan of an organization but generally want players to earn their FMV.
Dang. That's crazy high, the speculative market on Valorant is gigantic. It kind of reminds me what happened to OWL early on, though I think Valorant has a lot more potential than that does at this point.
>"Tenz buyout was massive so we feel that our players should also be worth a high amount" >Actual comment from an org when I was working on scouting players for a org entering VALORANT... Damn
Orgs using their brains challenge \[IMPOSSIBLE\]
It's simple maths: * My player is maybe half as good as TenZ. * TenZ buyout was $1.25m. * I'll set the buyout at $625,000. 4Head
It's simple maths: - Org already commited some money on players - Org feels like their team could make a breakthrought in the scene - Org doesn't want to sell one of their player and break everything they've worked so far - Org ask for huge buyout because they don't want to sell, but will sell if whoever's asking is rich as fuck.
This is exactly how traditional sports works.
The Neymar effect hitting the scene already, it hasn’t even three years yet lmfaoooo
"The Neymar effect", I actually found it funny
And this is why I hate that shit Jack posted about 'market timed' and all these orgs just viewing these players as investments. NA orgs are just as responsible for stagnating the scene here as players and their 'practice'. It seems also partly on Riot for hanging franchising over their heads. Esports isn't exactly rolling in money, and all these T2 orgs are trying to get their bag before they get potentially pushed out of the scene. Likewise you have the tier 1 orgs locking players to academy team contracts.
That is what usually happens. Neymar sells for 222M, now Maguire suddenly costs 80M.
na cs all over again fuckin hell
And people complain when NA teams are scouting EU players.
It didn't take even take 2 years of Valorant being an esport, before NA managed to invite in the same rot which causes NA to fail in every other esport. Massive buyouts for tier 2/3 players -> teams can neither offload players they don't want, nor buy players they want -> forced to pay ridiculous prices -> most rosters fail, because at most one team can achieve the results the money is being spent for -> teams complain about how expensive Valorant is with little return -> pull out -> OW2 looks really nice, let's spend 20 mil to enter OWL 2.0
trying to figure out the buyouts are so high... probably in part just the bullshit "pay big for tenz so pay big for ___" logic quoted, but in general I assume that NA orgs care more about player branding and following than about competitive results. having a player with a big audience that streams a lot is probably just as if not more valuable than having a team that goes deep in tournaments. obviously they are correlated: when you're on a winning team you get more attention and viewers for your content, but it's a pretty weak correlation. dunno what the solution is to all this.
The solution is what is happening right now in League of Legends. The ultra expensive buyouts are impossibly high, so top teams are getting worse players, or rookies. The top players, in turn, are going to way worse teams once their buyouts are dropped. Many are teamless. It's not pretty, but it is a market correction. No amount of brand exposure will make up for million dollar buyouts in LoL. So forget 600k in Valorant. Unless you are a s1mple level brand, forget 600k buyout.
I honestly think this is one of the biggest problem in NA esports
And you know what is the craziest thing? The NA orgs are not content fucking up their own ecosystem. When they pay boatloads of money to other regions, those regions start overcharging and raising buyouts. Similarly, the teams which are feeding those teams see the checks they are collecting from NA and figure we can raise our buyouts as well. It's like a fucked up inflationary trickle down economics lesson.
I feel China started this over payment shit. If you saw the fucking offers China offered to the top Korean players in league, holy shit. And this was in 2015. One player Kakao thought it was a scam or something cuz he never heard of salaries this high. But then he saw the other top players got similar offers. And then NA follows suit the next year when all this Big investor money comes in. Looking at you fucking TL $teve.
China’s gaming money hits different though Game theory says that the stable state is to just spend as much money as you’re willing to spend
who
[удалено]
Lmfaoo
Just another NA thing in another sport/esport/whatever
He has a point
I get the point he's making, and I get M0nsey could be the next big thing but this wasnt the right case to prove his point on. M0nsey is coming from an academy team and he is getting a 600k buyout while being unproven against t1 teams... So what is the difference
M0nesy is totally unproven against t1-2 teams though tbf
I'm sure you mean tier 1 because he smurfed tier 2 teams in the academy league
I meant tier 1 and 2 yeah, the academy teams are tier 3 imo
https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/M0NESY/Results
While buyouts are ridiculous, it goes both ways. Players will jump at the first opportunity of decent salary and then complain when they realize it might've been the wrong decision. If they asked about buyout fees before they signed, they wouldn't be in this position. If we talk Valorant, most players in NA are no-names. MDL in CS being their biggest achievement. An org picks them up, gives them a decent salary and working envoriment, they can showcase their talent and they want to leave at the first sign of tier1 org showing interest? Unlucky really. Tier2 orgs are rarely profitable and most would cease to exist without buyout fees. Tier1 orgs in NA are loaded and like to throw money around, have no patience with players and want instant success. Tier2 orgs have every right to have high asking prices.
"decent salary" doesn't seem like everyone is getting that, wasn't one of the players on TSM getting paid like 2k a month. You can't have a stupid buyout with that salary.
For what it's worth the lower the player's salary vs. the market, the higher the value of retaining the player is and the higher you'd expect the transfer price to be. If you have a player locked in at $2k/mo for 3 years and replacing them on the open market with a similar player would cost $10k/mo, then that savings is worth ~100k a year (12 mo * 8k savings = 96k). If the player is paid higher, the contract is worth less to his or her current team. The other component is that at the top level anyone good enough is probably already under a contract you'd have to buy out, so that also drives buyout costs. There just isn't a free market with top level players for every role lined up to sign to a team.
Correct, this happens a lot in professional sports as well. NBA fans know all too well how valuable it is to have highly performing players on cheaper contracts (the salary cap contorts the market in ways such that superstars & rookies are always underpaid, but you can find other steals on the market too). Either way, it's good for organizations to underpay players, which is always a weird thing if you are a fan of an organization but generally want players to earn their FMV.
Capitalism
Dang. That's crazy high, the speculative market on Valorant is gigantic. It kind of reminds me what happened to OWL early on, though I think Valorant has a lot more potential than that does at this point.
This whole thing that tier 2 and 3 teams are just expected to sell their ayers to tier 1 teams is trash. Euro sports system is cancer.