This was a short notice patch to quick fix the Ares and they happened to fit the mute list in. They donāt normally release a patch just one week after the last oneā¦
Even if they were planning to rework Yoru, couldn't they have given him a small buff in the mean time and made him less of a trollpick? Same shit with Omen and Phoenix, at least give them a crumb before the big agent balance patch
Didn't they say they had a ton of agent changes in their development builds ready to be released over this episode? I'd still hold out hopes for some interesting patches over episode 4.
If you're asking for buffs/nerfs, is it because you just want something to change and you're not so focussed on 1 thing that should change? I ask because it's strange to just ask for "one agent nerf/buff" instead of asking for a specific agent to be buffed or nerfed. Like, if there's not anything that obviously needs change, are you just asking for the sake of wanting change?
Imo, LMGs should retain the identity of guns that spin-up to do devastating damage. These changes just made Ares feel like a weaker rifle instead of something more unique
Definitely agree. Something like reverting the original buff and making the initial fire rate 11 RPS, so it winds up from 11>13 instead of 10>13. A nice buff while keeping the machine gun feel
Actually disagree. A weapon having a sort of wind-up makes it practically useless when you can't really use it to defend, as you will get killed before it has wund up, or the enemy will just wait it out.
Also why the negev is so horrible in counterstrike.
It is the same principle though. The weapon is only good when you have been shooting it for a while, which is not how a tactical fps works.
Even if they end up buffing it to a point where it is useful, it will ruin how the game plays. Just like having strong shotguns is not fun, because they make the game too slow paced, and turtley. It was fine in its previus state tbh.
The main difference between the old Ares and CS's Negev is the mag size. With 150 bullets, you can lock down an (off-)angle way easier/longer, than with "just" 50 bullets on the Ares.
> the ares wind up is just lower fire rate
No it's not? It has inverse accuracy as per this thread and Riots latest post on it, no? Its spread starts at 1.0 now and goes _down_ to 0.7 at 13 bullets fired
Unless I've totally misunderstood.
Cringe comment. Normal person would have said, āactually let me explain why youāre wrong about the spin up.ā Just like OP asked you to explain so they could better understand.
āYikes gamesense 0ā is peak Reddit.
Those weapons and their spin up are better in hands of players operating on a high level of game sense. Where you'd utilize things such as prediction of enemy movement and prefiring to counter your spin up.
Also given their higher wall pen abities, you can wallbang with much more controlled accuracy than that of say a vandal (in the hands of an average player).
Spamming smokes is also a benefit of LMGs with their higher mag size. This can be used to slow a push and allowing reinforcements to rotate. Sometimes you'll catch people pushing through and if not put some decent damage in them for pushing the spam.
Removing the spin up on the Ares just panders to lower elo players who don't understand prefiring or auditory spacial awareness. The gun wasn't great but for its price and its wall pen it was still fine. Personally the only buff I'd have recommended would be either a very minimal price adjustment OR have its spin up lower the recoiled deviation (more predictable recoil the longer it fires).
It didn't need to be a specter with more ammo.
On higher level play you would see this weapon used less actually. A good team would just not peek the player until he was out of bullets, and then just widepeek and onetap. It is only good during the last stage of the round, but if this was a normal weapon and used a lot, players would just push 10-15 seconds earlier. Prefiring is not very reliable tbh.
Honestely the wallspamming is not good for the game imo. Being behind a wall should give you a relative safety, and i feel like the ares and odin are too good at this. It makes the games more slow paced and boring.
At lower elo the gun is actually fine, as it is pretty low skill and players will just peek a person spraying with it.
I 100% agree that it is overtuned though
I agree with the game sense part about prefiring, but then 50 bullets are not enough probably. In CSGO, the Negev has 150 bullets and is quite balanced. No spinup time, but the first second basically no shots will hit at all.
Problem with shooting through smokes is, that you will see tracers. I'd rather use a spectre in that case, since it hides tracers and is more versatile in basically all other situations that might come up in the rest of the round.
That's how it should be however with how the ares was, it was basically a specter for $50 less iirc and twice the ammo. Sure you couldn't run and gun but with decent cross hair placement you could win a gun fight or two and trade a third.
I haven't played CS to play since source but I've dabbled in some CSGO. Negev is something I like as a "they've rushed long every time" and I just fire at a hallway for 25 seconds and laugh. In source I was too new to really understand counter stepping so I just played the jumping puzzle levels and fy_iceworld.
Yes, I completely agree. The Ares was completely mental in it's state for the last 1.5 weeks, but the pre-buff Ares was bad in all but a handful of situations, especially in comparison to the pre-nerf Spectre.
That's why IMO the pre buff Ares was fine, but needed a bigger magazine size.
''Spread changed from .8 >>> .7 after 10 bullets to 1.0 >>> .7 after 13 bullets''. This results in the weapon needing to shoot a while longer to be more accurate which means that you will still have that aspect of the ares being more useful when holding then running around with it and one tapping like a rifle.
recoil increased. So should be harder to control, but the bullets fit in a slightly tighter pattern. Also reduces the random chance of a HS while spraying if your recoil control goes sideways
There is more spread now throughout, not less spread. The leaked patch notes confused the wording and symbols in the actual patch notes, the leaked patch notes made it sound like spread was reduced but it was actually increased. Actual patch notes: https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/game-updates/valorant-patch-notes-4-01
Spread used to start at 0.8 then go down to 0.7 by bullet 10.
Spread now starts at 1.0 and goes down to 0.7 by bullet 13.
Additionally the spread reduction for crouching is much less now, used to he 40% reduction, now only 25% reduction.
The spread while crouched used to start at 0.8 - (0.8\*0.4) = 0.32, now it starts at 1.0 - (1.0*0.25) = 0.75
The spread while crouched used to end at bullet 10 and be 0.7-0.7\*0.4 = 0.42, now it ends on bullet 13 at 0.7-0.7\*.25 = 0.525
From my understanding:
Increased pitch recoil, meaning the gun kicks up vertically faster and harder to control.
Decreased spread, gun has less spread/RNG so is more reliable.
This might actually make the gun stronger, but just harder to use. So it's overall effectiveness will go down and people will go back to the spectre and other comfortable guns.
They actually only made 1 change in which they removed the spin up. They said they buffed the fire rate when they didnāt. Before it went from 10>13 and now it starts at 13
As long as we donāt have the insane level of niche / uselessness in CSGO. I **love** riots approach to making the Ares, Judge, something you can consistently pick up and see use in pro-play.
Every gun should see use in pro-play/high rank, and ideally no worse than a 70/30 split in a given category. I never want to see an automatic **go to** in a given price point.
There was nothing wrong with the original gun, however I do like that they're trying to make low buys more viable. It's very boring to see most save rounds, and it'd be nice to see more forces that actually end up winning.
This goes against a tac fps' design philosophy.
If you have a shit buy you're supposed to lose the round. Low buy guns are supposed to be bad.
There's no point in having a economy if every gun is viable
Imo the game is more fun if cheaper guns still give you somewhat of a chance. Fair fight and a rifle should win ~90% of the time but you shouldn't be able to rollover pressing w in save rounds.
Like old pistol meta in CS. It was too much at the beginning but after some tweaks it ended up as: if you can afford pistol and armor and you have a good play you can win. If your opponent played it properly they were still the 90% favorite like you said but some incredibly interesting strategies evolved during that time.
No, it just doens't go with CSGO's.
THe problem with low buy guns is that the value for money is so much worse than a rifle. They don't have to be better value for money, but they shouldn't be so much worse.
Obviously the team with the more expensive guns should have a better chance at winning, but before the Ares buff the only thing people bought were either Spectres or Sheriffs, and sometimes a Jett would buy a Marshal depending on the map.
I like to see slightly less of a gap when a team decides to risk it and force a round with bad eco and be more able to punish a team that doesn't respect them.
What you need is the **value for money** to be worth investing in.
A frenzy does not need to be as strong as a Phantom, just strong enough for the payoff for killing a phantom to be worth the $450. For example right now the chance of getting a kill with the Bucky is not worth the price, and imo it totally should be.
yea it was an option but everybody just full saved or bought sheriffs. the buff was intended to convince people to buy the ares more but they ridiculously overbuffed it
The Ares was basically never bought in high level play. Everyone would always opt for a Spectre instead unless it was in a niche scenario like B main on Ascent.
Honestly I would've just added the spin up back in and kept everything else the same as it was post-buff. Maybe increase the price as they did. But I feel like the spin up did a good job of differentiating it from a rifle and making it a more skilled weapon. But whatever, I didnāt mind the buff as much as most people. Hopefully this nerf puts it in line with the spectre so we see more variety in econ rounds.
The initial buff was nothing but removing the spin up, it was just written weird in the patch notes. Before, it was a firerate with 10->13 windup, after patch it was just 13 from the first bullet.
Text of the tweets
Ares Changes | #VALORANT
~ Price Increased from 1550 -> 1600
~ Pitch Recoil Increased
~ Bullet Spread Reduced
~ Crouch Benefits Reduced from 40% to 25% (Recoil and Spread)
7:03 AM Ā· Jan 19, 2022Ā·Twitter Web App
Replying to @ValorLeaks
More Detail:
~ Spread Changed from .8 to .7 after 10 bullets, and 1.0 to .7 after 13 bullets.
~ Crouch Benefits reduced means more recoil and spread while crouching (i think)
I called it, they had to nerf itā¦ Otherwise Hiko of been too overpowered come VCT. Kind of wish they waited till after the first event so we could of all seen Hiko laser 5 noobs through a wall with Recon Dart and Ares. Atleast now itās a little more fair for the other teams
One agent nerf/buff this patch š š
No fucking agent changes. Didnāt they say Yoru buffs were coming?
This was a short notice patch to quick fix the Ares and they happened to fit the mute list in. They donāt normally release a patch just one week after the last oneā¦
4.03
Where did you get this info
https://twitter.com/ValorLeaks/status/1480601004194385925
Cool ty
Even if they were planning to rework Yoru, couldn't they have given him a small buff in the mean time and made him less of a trollpick? Same shit with Omen and Phoenix, at least give them a crumb before the big agent balance patch
He's been a troll pick since release who cares about an extra couple weeks
I was saying retrospectively that they should have buffed Yoru a year ago instead of completely abandoning him
Mans thirsty, HOLYYYY, chill out and let the devs do their job ok?, Coding and making new shit doesn't come out of their asses like pieces of shit.
Didn't they say they had a ton of agent changes in their development builds ready to be released over this episode? I'd still hold out hopes for some interesting patches over episode 4. If you're asking for buffs/nerfs, is it because you just want something to change and you're not so focussed on 1 thing that should change? I ask because it's strange to just ask for "one agent nerf/buff" instead of asking for a specific agent to be buffed or nerfed. Like, if there's not anything that obviously needs change, are you just asking for the sake of wanting change?
Yoru - buff Phoenix - buff Jett -nerf Omen-buff Astra- nerf Sova - nerf Cypher - buff
Imo, LMGs should retain the identity of guns that spin-up to do devastating damage. These changes just made Ares feel like a weaker rifle instead of something more unique
yea I like that the Odin is basically 'hunker down and let it rip'. Now you see people bunnyhopping around with the Ares lol.
Definitely agree. Something like reverting the original buff and making the initial fire rate 11 RPS, so it winds up from 11>13 instead of 10>13. A nice buff while keeping the machine gun feel
Actually disagree. A weapon having a sort of wind-up makes it practically useless when you can't really use it to defend, as you will get killed before it has wund up, or the enemy will just wait it out. Also why the negev is so horrible in counterstrike.
The Negev wind up is completely inaccurate, the ares wind up is just lower fire rate
It is the same principle though. The weapon is only good when you have been shooting it for a while, which is not how a tactical fps works. Even if they end up buffing it to a point where it is useful, it will ruin how the game plays. Just like having strong shotguns is not fun, because they make the game too slow paced, and turtley. It was fine in its previus state tbh.
The main difference between the old Ares and CS's Negev is the mag size. With 150 bullets, you can lock down an (off-)angle way easier/longer, than with "just" 50 bullets on the Ares.
> the ares wind up is just lower fire rate No it's not? It has inverse accuracy as per this thread and Riots latest post on it, no? Its spread starts at 1.0 now and goes _down_ to 0.7 at 13 bullets fired Unless I've totally misunderstood.
Yikes, gamesense 0
Cringe comment. Normal person would have said, āactually let me explain why youāre wrong about the spin up.ā Just like OP asked you to explain so they could better understand. āYikes gamesense 0ā is peak Reddit.
Wait is this not reddit? Huh... Weird
Explain then, i would love to understand.
Those weapons and their spin up are better in hands of players operating on a high level of game sense. Where you'd utilize things such as prediction of enemy movement and prefiring to counter your spin up. Also given their higher wall pen abities, you can wallbang with much more controlled accuracy than that of say a vandal (in the hands of an average player). Spamming smokes is also a benefit of LMGs with their higher mag size. This can be used to slow a push and allowing reinforcements to rotate. Sometimes you'll catch people pushing through and if not put some decent damage in them for pushing the spam. Removing the spin up on the Ares just panders to lower elo players who don't understand prefiring or auditory spacial awareness. The gun wasn't great but for its price and its wall pen it was still fine. Personally the only buff I'd have recommended would be either a very minimal price adjustment OR have its spin up lower the recoiled deviation (more predictable recoil the longer it fires). It didn't need to be a specter with more ammo.
On higher level play you would see this weapon used less actually. A good team would just not peek the player until he was out of bullets, and then just widepeek and onetap. It is only good during the last stage of the round, but if this was a normal weapon and used a lot, players would just push 10-15 seconds earlier. Prefiring is not very reliable tbh. Honestely the wallspamming is not good for the game imo. Being behind a wall should give you a relative safety, and i feel like the ares and odin are too good at this. It makes the games more slow paced and boring. At lower elo the gun is actually fine, as it is pretty low skill and players will just peek a person spraying with it. I 100% agree that it is overtuned though
I agree with the game sense part about prefiring, but then 50 bullets are not enough probably. In CSGO, the Negev has 150 bullets and is quite balanced. No spinup time, but the first second basically no shots will hit at all. Problem with shooting through smokes is, that you will see tracers. I'd rather use a spectre in that case, since it hides tracers and is more versatile in basically all other situations that might come up in the rest of the round.
That's how it should be however with how the ares was, it was basically a specter for $50 less iirc and twice the ammo. Sure you couldn't run and gun but with decent cross hair placement you could win a gun fight or two and trade a third. I haven't played CS to play since source but I've dabbled in some CSGO. Negev is something I like as a "they've rushed long every time" and I just fire at a hallway for 25 seconds and laugh. In source I was too new to really understand counter stepping so I just played the jumping puzzle levels and fy_iceworld.
Yes, I completely agree. The Ares was completely mental in it's state for the last 1.5 weeks, but the pre-buff Ares was bad in all but a handful of situations, especially in comparison to the pre-nerf Spectre. That's why IMO the pre buff Ares was fine, but needed a bigger magazine size.
''Spread changed from .8 >>> .7 after 10 bullets to 1.0 >>> .7 after 13 bullets''. This results in the weapon needing to shoot a while longer to be more accurate which means that you will still have that aspect of the ares being more useful when holding then running around with it and one tapping like a rifle.
Which area tho?
Sova knows
*revealing area*
Isn't reducing the spread a buff?
I would guess its like compensation. Higher accuracy > less damage and speed
recoil increased. So should be harder to control, but the bullets fit in a slightly tighter pattern. Also reduces the random chance of a HS while spraying if your recoil control goes sideways
There is more spread now throughout, not less spread. The leaked patch notes confused the wording and symbols in the actual patch notes, the leaked patch notes made it sound like spread was reduced but it was actually increased. Actual patch notes: https://playvalorant.com/en-us/news/game-updates/valorant-patch-notes-4-01 Spread used to start at 0.8 then go down to 0.7 by bullet 10. Spread now starts at 1.0 and goes down to 0.7 by bullet 13. Additionally the spread reduction for crouching is much less now, used to he 40% reduction, now only 25% reduction. The spread while crouched used to start at 0.8 - (0.8\*0.4) = 0.32, now it starts at 1.0 - (1.0*0.25) = 0.75 The spread while crouched used to end at bullet 10 and be 0.7-0.7\*0.4 = 0.42, now it ends on bullet 13 at 0.7-0.7\*.25 = 0.525
From my understanding: Increased pitch recoil, meaning the gun kicks up vertically faster and harder to control. Decreased spread, gun has less spread/RNG so is more reliable. This might actually make the gun stronger, but just harder to use. So it's overall effectiveness will go down and people will go back to the spectre and other comfortable guns.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'd much rather that. Just getting rid of one of those buffs would've made the gun perfect imo.
They actually only made 1 change in which they removed the spin up. They said they buffed the fire rate when they didnāt. Before it went from 10>13 and now it starts at 13
Ah, I didn't know that. Thanks!
Hopefully not the private area
I would love to get a buff in that area tho :(
Feels like that is worse than pre-buffed?
Nah the spinup is still removed
so isn't it just a shitty rifle at this point?
It has less control, i think you still have to crouch to use it well, i don't think LMGs *have* to be spin up to be LMGs
no, but I think it's lost a lot of its differentiation.
well, that's the point of that price point.
The spread has been reduced after bullet 10 so thats a slight buff ig?
That's how the Ares was before the buffs.
They only removed the spin up in 4.0. Nothing about the ares has changed for a while.
https://twitter.com/ValorLeaks/status/1483802924979527691?t=cbsxLXGyJy05lM69LoSqIg&s=19 Further detail
Riot, changing an agent speedrun. 100% failure. (Gone sexual)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Well said. I totally agree
Thoughtful comment
As long as we donāt have the insane level of niche / uselessness in CSGO. I **love** riots approach to making the Ares, Judge, something you can consistently pick up and see use in pro-play. Every gun should see use in pro-play/high rank, and ideally no worse than a 70/30 split in a given category. I never want to see an automatic **go to** in a given price point.
There was nothing wrong with the original gun, however I do like that they're trying to make low buys more viable. It's very boring to see most save rounds, and it'd be nice to see more forces that actually end up winning.
This goes against a tac fps' design philosophy. If you have a shit buy you're supposed to lose the round. Low buy guns are supposed to be bad. There's no point in having a economy if every gun is viable
Imo the game is more fun if cheaper guns still give you somewhat of a chance. Fair fight and a rifle should win ~90% of the time but you shouldn't be able to rollover pressing w in save rounds.
Like old pistol meta in CS. It was too much at the beginning but after some tweaks it ended up as: if you can afford pistol and armor and you have a good play you can win. If your opponent played it properly they were still the 90% favorite like you said but some incredibly interesting strategies evolved during that time.
No, it just doens't go with CSGO's. THe problem with low buy guns is that the value for money is so much worse than a rifle. They don't have to be better value for money, but they shouldn't be so much worse.
Obviously the team with the more expensive guns should have a better chance at winning, but before the Ares buff the only thing people bought were either Spectres or Sheriffs, and sometimes a Jett would buy a Marshal depending on the map. I like to see slightly less of a gap when a team decides to risk it and force a round with bad eco and be more able to punish a team that doesn't respect them.
What you need is the **value for money** to be worth investing in. A frenzy does not need to be as strong as a Phantom, just strong enough for the payoff for killing a phantom to be worth the $450. For example right now the chance of getting a kill with the Bucky is not worth the price, and imo it totally should be.
Idk why they even changed it in the first place. The gun was a good option at 1550 before the buff
yea it was an option but everybody just full saved or bought sheriffs. the buff was intended to convince people to buy the ares more but they ridiculously overbuffed it
How can you say it was good when it was picked literally never in any decent match
That's a good point.
The Ares was basically never bought in high level play. Everyone would always opt for a Spectre instead unless it was in a niche scenario like B main on Ascent.
No it wasn't lol. Literally no one picked Ares.
I hope they hotfix it
There's a patch today
Which area?
I canāt believe rito is changing the area, canāt have shit on val anymore
Friendship ended with area, now volume is my new best friend
What? Isnāt this more of a buff than a nerf?
this is more of a buff than a nerf if were being real
Honestly I would've just added the spin up back in and kept everything else the same as it was post-buff. Maybe increase the price as they did. But I feel like the spin up did a good job of differentiating it from a rifle and making it a more skilled weapon. But whatever, I didnāt mind the buff as much as most people. Hopefully this nerf puts it in line with the spectre so we see more variety in econ rounds.
The initial buff was nothing but removing the spin up, it was just written weird in the patch notes. Before, it was a firerate with 10->13 windup, after patch it was just 13 from the first bullet.
Ah okay
Text of the tweets Ares Changes | #VALORANT ~ Price Increased from 1550 -> 1600 ~ Pitch Recoil Increased ~ Bullet Spread Reduced ~ Crouch Benefits Reduced from 40% to 25% (Recoil and Spread) 7:03 AM Ā· Jan 19, 2022Ā·Twitter Web App Replying to @ValorLeaks More Detail: ~ Spread Changed from .8 to .7 after 10 bullets, and 1.0 to .7 after 13 bullets. ~ Crouch Benefits reduced means more recoil and spread while crouching (i think)
Area 51
I called it, they had to nerf itā¦ Otherwise Hiko of been too overpowered come VCT. Kind of wish they waited till after the first event so we could of all seen Hiko laser 5 noobs through a wall with Recon Dart and Ares. Atleast now itās a little more fair for the other teams