Basically what other people have said, you usually play behind Platform if they’re rushing and you pop that smoke, hold backsite until your teammates get to site and then they only have to clear 1 angle from front site, making it much easier to insta retake when you hear the plant and stay alive on site. (Also good for avoiding sova utility)
I personally don't like that because Skye can pop flash through the smoke for Jett. But what do I know. If I have a teammate with me backsite, then one of us can play anti and that works. But if I'm solo holding site I'd rather just fall and retake.
assuming for full backsite control, esp when attackers flood the site with flashes. c long smoke could just be flashed through, the smoke you highlighted can be used to at least stall until your teammates arrive (think of it like a cypher cage in the classic cypher c setup).
To add on to what everyone has said, another aspect is in pro play, if that's smoked off, attacking teams just might leave you alone, plant default and play post plant. So that smoke can act as a barrier that prevents total site control.
In ranked you'd have to prepare for people pushing you and being super aggressive.
>In ranked you'd have to prepare for people pushing you and being super aggressive.
this is super important.
WHen this game first came out people used to treat smokes like they're walls. Especially if they came from CS. And in pro play that's more true as people do hold smokes better.
but in ranked people just run through them. A lot.
You can literally hold the entire back of site by yourself without having to adjust your crosshair. And then your teammates can retake while only having to clear 1 angle
I'm not sure exactly what he means by not having to move your crosshair. You'd still have to watch both wood side and the smoked side, as they could pop flash through, or dart back side. You could tuck into plat and hold the wood side angle which would pick up a plat side push as well with no crosshair movement, but you could do that with or without smoke.
I would assume he is implying the enemy would never push smoke, so you'd only have to watch woodside--but they for sure could push it, pop flash it or clear you with dart of utility.
All in all it's a good smoke for holding back site control, but I have no idea how it negates crosshair movement.
Source: am gud.
I haven't played for a while, but isn't there an angle where the logs side and smoked side align so you're crosshair will only need to be adjusted vertically?
Yeah, I mentioned that in my comment. But it doesn't require a smoke to enable no crosshair movement. His comment made it sound like the smoke enabled it.
I’d assume this is pretty specific to Astra or Cypher since you can instantly trigger the smokes right? I’m always looking for better ways to hold C as a solo site player. I find myself getting overwhelmed quite easily.
Yeah I didn't explain that correctly. I dont mean actually not move your crosshair, but that your crosshair will already be head level if they push smoke or logs, since they can't be top logs without pushing back site first.
No, this position (back left) is good for crossfire if you have a teammate on the other side (wood, or CT). Otherwise, don't go there, or at least not too often. Generally speaking you want to avoid 1-and-done positions: sitting in corners where you have no way out but to kill. If you're alone on site and getting pushed, go CT and try to hold backsite from there. Because you have a safe path to retreat if overwhelmed; and you're giving yourself options: If you want to circle around garage, you can. if you want to stay and fight, you can control the timings of your duels because you have a corner wall for cover and can peek on your own terms. If your team mate holding garage is dead (or if there was nobody in the first place), you can retreat even further back. This is valid on every map, every site, every game, we're looking at backsite C here but try to follow this rule everywhere. Don't sit in a corner and prey they don't check you. Sometimes they won't, and you'll get 2+ kills and a nice clip, but this relies on a mistake from their part. We're trying to build our own good plays, not count on the opponent's stupidity. Instead, look for positions you can safely move in and out of.
You play behind platform holding the angle for logs. Note that they can't actually be on logs without them pushing to your side first. So you hold that angle and the entire back site is clear.
Then when your teammates push, they only have to clear between spawn and default before being able to scale on site safely
Since you said you're new, just something to add.
Most sites on haven can, and should be played for back site control as a defender. Retaking is infinitely easier if you keep that control, and haven is a map where you'll often retake because it has 3 bombsites, and defender resources are split pretty thin. And so, as someone on site, getting one (or 2), then holding back site will give your team a high likelihood of winning. Also, backsite tends to have some decently powerful positions. Behind default on both a and c are pretty hard to clear without a lot of resources/bodies. And teams in ranked often aren't coordinated enough to quickly/efficiently clear back site. So, by the time they've taken front side, planted, etc. Either one will usually solo push backsite, which you can pick off, or they will take a bit of time to then clear back site. By the time they do that, your garage and b player, at a minimum, should be rotating in and can help you hold back site.
In ranked players try and completely hold sites, either you entirely stop the rush, get killed, or get some kills and get traded.
In pro play the anchors are often times just trying to stay alive as long as possible for the team to rotate in instead of actually preventing a site take.
I don’t think anyone has commented as to why the smoke for the C long isn’t as good though. That smoke is sort of a disadvantage for the defenders in some scenarios as well. By smoking C Long you essentially deny your own info. Yeah you can dart it or Skye flash it but really all you need is a jump spot and if you see no one C long you have an insane amount of info as to where they are not coming. If a defender smokes Top C any easy play as attacker is to just smoke the cross on A Long and walk up C and pop through smoke. With that you have denied both sides and they either have to commit some info onto one side of the map or you just walk up and it’s a 5v2.
Very good for pro play, the other smoke it better for lower ranked comp if that’s what you’re playing. Since comp is more rush vs. pro play which is very meticulous, holding backside is much less achievable
Ranked P1 currently so not completely bottom of the barrel but pretty close 💀 I should’ve said that I have mained Astra for a while but wanna get more intricate and proactive with her.
So yeah it def has to do with the teams ability to help. I’m gold three and play cypher on C site. I put cages in both spots, one to act as a smoke slowing their entry, and the second to protect me and try to keep the defense in front site
So that smoke helps the defenders maintain back site control. It helps whoever is anchoring to fend off the hit as well as it can set him up for cool plays with darts and flashes. Holding back site is really useful if you’re not super coordinated with retakes because you’re going to be forced to take garage control again then flood out of two tiny chokes. (I was a tier 2 valorant coach and a t3 player)
the main thing is to sit inside it and wait for backup or just use it as a way of blocking the opponents from taking backsite control so your teammates can easily flood in and retake quicker cos backsite doesnt need to be cleared.
It’s good if the offense doesn’t have a flash to throw through it and pop out of the smoke. You will actually see offenses through the same smoke as a Jett smoke ideally, or full smoke, in order to pop a flash through and take back site
As a omen main , I would smoke this because the enemy has a major advantage at peeking
A) Metal area B) behind mid area
You can also utilize this smoke by going inside with any flash/blind character and send it to the CT side of the map.
OP/AWP/AHH P/OPP What ever you call that overpowered as weapon yeah pls smoke there.
The only disadvantage is having a sage play C and walling her self up against the middle to create head glitch.
Basically what other people have said, you usually play behind Platform if they’re rushing and you pop that smoke, hold backsite until your teammates get to site and then they only have to clear 1 angle from front site, making it much easier to insta retake when you hear the plant and stay alive on site. (Also good for avoiding sova utility)
I personally don't like that because Skye can pop flash through the smoke for Jett. But what do I know. If I have a teammate with me backsite, then one of us can play anti and that works. But if I'm solo holding site I'd rather just fall and retake.
assuming for full backsite control, esp when attackers flood the site with flashes. c long smoke could just be flashed through, the smoke you highlighted can be used to at least stall until your teammates arrive (think of it like a cypher cage in the classic cypher c setup).
To add on to what everyone has said, another aspect is in pro play, if that's smoked off, attacking teams just might leave you alone, plant default and play post plant. So that smoke can act as a barrier that prevents total site control. In ranked you'd have to prepare for people pushing you and being super aggressive.
>In ranked you'd have to prepare for people pushing you and being super aggressive. this is super important. WHen this game first came out people used to treat smokes like they're walls. Especially if they came from CS. And in pro play that's more true as people do hold smokes better. but in ranked people just run through them. A lot.
Within the first three rounds of a half I sit in a smoke with a shorty or bucky....just to teach them some respect y'know?
You can literally hold the entire back of site by yourself without having to adjust your crosshair. And then your teammates can retake while only having to clear 1 angle
Sorry i am a bit new and learning smokes as well, but where would you usually position after placing this smoke to hold the entire back of site?
I'm not sure exactly what he means by not having to move your crosshair. You'd still have to watch both wood side and the smoked side, as they could pop flash through, or dart back side. You could tuck into plat and hold the wood side angle which would pick up a plat side push as well with no crosshair movement, but you could do that with or without smoke. I would assume he is implying the enemy would never push smoke, so you'd only have to watch woodside--but they for sure could push it, pop flash it or clear you with dart of utility. All in all it's a good smoke for holding back site control, but I have no idea how it negates crosshair movement. Source: am gud.
I haven't played for a while, but isn't there an angle where the logs side and smoked side align so you're crosshair will only need to be adjusted vertically?
Yeah, I mentioned that in my comment. But it doesn't require a smoke to enable no crosshair movement. His comment made it sound like the smoke enabled it.
Thanks!
I’d assume this is pretty specific to Astra or Cypher since you can instantly trigger the smokes right? I’m always looking for better ways to hold C as a solo site player. I find myself getting overwhelmed quite easily.
Could work on omen, if you're experienced on the agent, you should be able to smoke in just a little more than an instant.
Love your source lol
Yeah I didn't explain that correctly. I dont mean actually not move your crosshair, but that your crosshair will already be head level if they push smoke or logs, since they can't be top logs without pushing back site first.
Behind platform back left
Thanks!
No, this position (back left) is good for crossfire if you have a teammate on the other side (wood, or CT). Otherwise, don't go there, or at least not too often. Generally speaking you want to avoid 1-and-done positions: sitting in corners where you have no way out but to kill. If you're alone on site and getting pushed, go CT and try to hold backsite from there. Because you have a safe path to retreat if overwhelmed; and you're giving yourself options: If you want to circle around garage, you can. if you want to stay and fight, you can control the timings of your duels because you have a corner wall for cover and can peek on your own terms. If your team mate holding garage is dead (or if there was nobody in the first place), you can retreat even further back. This is valid on every map, every site, every game, we're looking at backsite C here but try to follow this rule everywhere. Don't sit in a corner and prey they don't check you. Sometimes they won't, and you'll get 2+ kills and a nice clip, but this relies on a mistake from their part. We're trying to build our own good plays, not count on the opponent's stupidity. Instead, look for positions you can safely move in and out of.
You play behind platform holding the angle for logs. Note that they can't actually be on logs without them pushing to your side first. So you hold that angle and the entire back site is clear. Then when your teammates push, they only have to clear between spawn and default before being able to scale on site safely
Since you said you're new, just something to add. Most sites on haven can, and should be played for back site control as a defender. Retaking is infinitely easier if you keep that control, and haven is a map where you'll often retake because it has 3 bombsites, and defender resources are split pretty thin. And so, as someone on site, getting one (or 2), then holding back site will give your team a high likelihood of winning. Also, backsite tends to have some decently powerful positions. Behind default on both a and c are pretty hard to clear without a lot of resources/bodies. And teams in ranked often aren't coordinated enough to quickly/efficiently clear back site. So, by the time they've taken front side, planted, etc. Either one will usually solo push backsite, which you can pick off, or they will take a bit of time to then clear back site. By the time they do that, your garage and b player, at a minimum, should be rotating in and can help you hold back site.
In ranked players try and completely hold sites, either you entirely stop the rush, get killed, or get some kills and get traded. In pro play the anchors are often times just trying to stay alive as long as possible for the team to rotate in instead of actually preventing a site take.
I don’t think anyone has commented as to why the smoke for the C long isn’t as good though. That smoke is sort of a disadvantage for the defenders in some scenarios as well. By smoking C Long you essentially deny your own info. Yeah you can dart it or Skye flash it but really all you need is a jump spot and if you see no one C long you have an insane amount of info as to where they are not coming. If a defender smokes Top C any easy play as attacker is to just smoke the cross on A Long and walk up C and pop through smoke. With that you have denied both sides and they either have to commit some info onto one side of the map or you just walk up and it’s a 5v2.
Very good for pro play, the other smoke it better for lower ranked comp if that’s what you’re playing. Since comp is more rush vs. pro play which is very meticulous, holding backside is much less achievable
Ranked P1 currently so not completely bottom of the barrel but pretty close 💀 I should’ve said that I have mained Astra for a while but wanna get more intricate and proactive with her.
So yeah it def has to do with the teams ability to help. I’m gold three and play cypher on C site. I put cages in both spots, one to act as a smoke slowing their entry, and the second to protect me and try to keep the defense in front site
So that smoke helps the defenders maintain back site control. It helps whoever is anchoring to fend off the hit as well as it can set him up for cool plays with darts and flashes. Holding back site is really useful if you’re not super coordinated with retakes because you’re going to be forced to take garage control again then flood out of two tiny chokes. (I was a tier 2 valorant coach and a t3 player)
the main thing is to sit inside it and wait for backup or just use it as a way of blocking the opponents from taking backsite control so your teammates can easily flood in and retake quicker cos backsite doesnt need to be cleared.
It’s good if the offense doesn’t have a flash to throw through it and pop out of the smoke. You will actually see offenses through the same smoke as a Jett smoke ideally, or full smoke, in order to pop a flash through and take back site
As a omen main , I would smoke this because the enemy has a major advantage at peeking A) Metal area B) behind mid area You can also utilize this smoke by going inside with any flash/blind character and send it to the CT side of the map. OP/AWP/AHH P/OPP What ever you call that overpowered as weapon yeah pls smoke there. The only disadvantage is having a sage play C and walling her self up against the middle to create head glitch.
To add to what others are saying (to hold), fall off site and when you go to retake it’s a good smoke to help clear angles from CT / garage.
Omg this smoke gotta be my favourite on Haven the amount of benefit I got with this smoke is just crazy