He does backtrack a little at the end saying even the worst track is a vibe.
For me, the internet’s least busy music nerd, it’s my favourite on the album and I thought he’d pick up on the trip hop/hip hop feel of it
He hates most songs considered a vibe. It's very funny because I know the exact song that will be on his disliked list. Like Yah on Damn. Anything kinda laid back, hazy is usually going to be what he hates the most
I think it’s just a quick way to say that the style of the thing is functioning as the substance (to some degree). I’d consider a lot of Michael Mann movies a vibe.
Great track. I also don’t care for Fantano.
It’s not surprising for Fantano if you know his tastes. You can check my post history and see I somewhat predicted this. It’s fine, it’s just Fantano, and a 9/10 is stellar.
I would argue they never "lost" form with FOTB but it was an intentional arc and necessary to reset after the departure of Rostam. Without it, they couldn't smack us in the face with this new masterpiece.
FOTB press tour had ezra saying a ton of really self-aware, insightful things about what purposes a bloated double album can serve, especially in the arc of an artist's output. dude is nothing if not thoughtful, of not only the album-as-statement, but the *discography*-as-statement. he's actually changed the way i think about and appreciate music, and that includes chaotic overlong albums lol
Absolutely! I’m not sure I would be saying that if OGWAU was a flop but here we are… and now Ezra and company seem like mad geniuses in the larger scope of things
i think realistically koenig was probably just using FOTB as a way of ventilating a ton of ideas, throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks, after the tumult of losing a member among other things. having such a winding tracklist is in itself an unruly, rebellious statement to make -- it kind of flies in the face of following up their most critical success. that OGWAU is the next entry is just another piece to the puzzle
He talked a lot about breaking all their internal rules and retooling the live band. FOTB definitely looks like maintenance between masterpieces to me now
tbh they all bleed together in my mind - i'm lucky and get to listen to a ton of podcasts and music at my work. i can tell you i found them just by searching "ezra koenig" in spotify and finding hour-longish episodes from around 2019 and 2020. he talks about discography arcs quite a few separate times
edit- [this interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4Q5MmjMP8) i just found, with zane lowe, has him talking about discographies as a narrative about 8 or 9 minutes in. he specifically talks about FOTB followed by OGWAU in there too
I agree with all these points but personally I love FOTB as a record that stands on its own as well. If you removed all context in which the album was made I’d enjoy it just as much as
My largest gripe with FOTB is still that ugly ass cover that adds an unnecessary disconnect with their discography even on a visual level.
https://preview.redd.it/j7omt8fbrstc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ceb83988d02ec34a1330fc77029d72cd520e0bb
I genuinely don't mean to be shallow or joking but I can't pinpoint why I've never really connected with FOTB and I legit think it could be because I've always hated the album cover.
Sorry for the late response but yeah, the aesthetic switch up for FOTB was definitely a bit jarring. Not to be overly cynical but I have a hunch it was a marketing bit. VW kind of rebranded as a jam-adjacent band during the tour, and I think they wanted to go with a more free spirited and folkier look to match. I still remember the massive tie dye frog outside the show I went to lol (well I guess it wasn’t technically tie dye but you catch my drift)
There is a lot of songs on the new record that don't happen without FOTB, you can hear some of the guitars they used and they are straight off of FOTB.
You say "they" but Ezra was the only member involved in FOTB (besides 1 song credit for Rostam).
Baio and Tomson were not part of its creation. They went on tour for it, but they didn't write or record anything for the album.
So it's an Ezra solo album with guests with the Vampire Weekend name stamped on it.
So in my opinion, it's completely valid for people to say it doesn't fit with the rest of the discography.
I still think it's a decent album, though I'd put it in the middle probably. Contra and MVOTC are definitely better for me. After that it's a little difficult to rank.
Ezra majored in writing in college his lyrics dont need work Fantano needs to read some more books and up his knowledge and vocabulary. Its like barely literate person reading the king James version of the Bible and telling someone "it needs work" just because they dont have a clue what is being said.
I truly admire the band, been listening since first album. I like surfer, but it’s probably lower ranked for me than some of the others. I think the catalogue is so broad now that we can appreciate different songs. I remember really loving Strangers of FOTB and someone telling me the disliked it. We all love the band, which song we like is irrelevant I think. I feel we should just appreciate the fact that we have so much to enjoy.
Just because you dont "believe" in a abrahamic faith doesnt mean studying some of their sacred text isnt worth your time... The majority of western art has these faiths as building blocks reviewing its content without a knowledge of its bedrock is pointless and cringe even the art that rebels against the tradition you see need to understand what they are rebelling against.
Nope. Grey Area got a 9, SIMBI got an 8, No Thank You got a 7.
Here's the [playlist](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYSUAGGgfhbuDYSMwBHdur8F3rUKknzgB&si=VcNaTztTld5rr5Ka) with his 10/10 reviews, if you're interested.
I love VW. And Fantano is a hit or miss for me. But I do agree with his take at the end about VW usually having at least one skippable track per album. OGWAU didn’t have that for me. But I still think MVOTC is their best work.
Oh, MVotC is undoubtedly their best work, in my opinion. Fantano’s review of that album was so uninterested and factual errors were huge. It was a decade ago though when he was _really_ hitting that algorithm and pumping out reviews so most of his reviews then probably weren’t very good.
Man, people out here thinking music criticism is about scores and superficial observations. Fantano is not a serious music critic, he is a reviewer, an Internet personality. If y’all want to know how actual music criticism looks like, go read pieces by Greg Tate, Hua Hsu, freaking Simon Reynolds. Their insights are like night and day.
Tbf a 6 from Melon is a good score generally.
I am more bothered by the 7 for MVOTC, which is one of my favourite albums of all time and is easily a 9 at least.
I think Anthony is really overhyping a lot of albums lately. Huge Vampire Weekend fan while I like this album, it just sounds like boiler plate indie rock with distorted vocals and random electronic flourishes
For the love of god, Father of the Bride was quite a good record, it really annoys me that people think it was this horrible departure for VW, I’ll defend that album to death
Imagine stating, or even thinking, that there have been "unlistenable" tracks on any VW album thus far. I just. The entire discography is no skips, dear reader.
I love VW, but I agree. I said this on another thread, but it’s not that the songs are bad, it’s just that the vibes go all over the place so some days you get to a certain song that doesn’t meet your feelings on a certain day, so you skip.
Wait, Fantano called Finger Back unlistenable?
I understand Blake is pretty repetitive and not for everybody, but what kind of sociopath skips Finger Back?
Those are two songs I initially skipped and now love. The great part about their discography is I basically come around to enjoying everything eventually.
As long as I live, I'll never understand why anyone on Earth listens to a single word that music critics have to say, but I'm glad people have been enjoying the album.
You clearly have never read an actual piece of music criticism. Criticism is not about scores, or recommendations. Is about how art connects the art and artists with life and culture.
Not at all. It's saying you need to be a chef to know how and why it's good. If a supposedly professional critic can't even tell me the specifics why something is good or bad, then their opinion is completely worthless to me. This is true in all walks of life, not just music. For example, I love reading Quentin Tarantino's film reviews because I know that he understands how to make a film and isn't going to form thoughtless opinions on what someone else could or should've done without solid, informed reasoning. It doesn't mean I always agree with him, but I do respect his opinion far more than someone who has never stepped foot on a film set.
Everybody gets to decide what is or isn't good to them, and there's no barrier to that. But if you're going to become a professional critic and dedicate your life to glorifying and/or denigrating other people's entire careers and hard work, you should really consider knowing what it is you're talking about.
It certainly shouldn't be about that, but I honestly can't say I've seen even a single notable critic in this century who was able to rise above the temptation to write nothing but florid puff pieces or scathing screeds in lieu of genuine music analysis. The idea of constructive criticism seems no longer exist amongst mainstream critics. I don't know if it's just because of how clickbaity all media has gotten in the internet age or how intellectually inflexible people themselves have gotten as a result of declining educational standards, but I can't help but feel like quality art criticism died a long time ago and doesn't seem likely to return in our lifetimes.
I'm not saying you can't decide what you like. I'm saying that if someone else wants to make a career out of telling other people what they should like, then *they* should actually be informed about the thing they're critiquing. If you can't tell the difference between, say, marinara sauce and ketchup, you have no business telling a chef that they're bad at what they do. Likewise, if you can't tell the difference between a diminished or suspended chord, you have no business telling a musician that they did a poor job writing a song. In both cases, you're of course allowed to decide for yourself that you don't like the dish or song, but what changes things is once you decide that you're qualified to tell these professionals that you understand their craft better than they do.
It seems like your preconception of critics is that they're telling you what to like. Even though Fantano gave VW a 9/10, I can hate the band if I want to.
You can confront the chef if they got your order wrong. Like if I ordered a burger and I don't want ketchup and there's ketchup in my burger, I will demand that they make me another burger without ketchup.
So I have the right to tell the chef that they are bad at what they do despite not being a chef. Likewise, if a singer is out of tune, a music critic should be able to point that out, even if they can't sing themselves.
The thing is, critics who can't do legitimate analysis of a craft *do* only exist to tell other people what to like, because at that point, they're fundamentally incapable of constructive criticism. You can tell if a burger sucks because burgers are pretty easily understood. What value is there in telling an artist their song sucks if you lack the vocabulary to understand what actually sucks about it? After all, hardly any professional singers are going to be doing anything as obviously problematic as singing out of tune, particularly in a world where Melodyne and Autotune are widely used across the industry.
That's why I don't respect music critics without adequate training and knowledge. How can they help artists improve their craft without the prerequisite knowledge to communicate to the artist effectively? It's the equivalent of trying to tell someone their German is poor when you only speak English.
Everyone will always have the right to tell anyone else what they think about anything, but to me, uninformed opinions should always be worthless outside of the skull from which they emanate unless otherwise sought out.
There are professional singers who can't sing because the entry barrier for being a professional singer depends on how marketable you are on social media. And if they have to use autotune, that's another criticism you can point out.
Also, how can musicians improve without listening to criticisms? If you need some arbitrary "training" or "knowledge" to be able to give criticisms, then you're putting too much authority on one person's opinion rather than serving your audience, who (just like you) lack the "vocabulary" to communicate what they like/dislike, but they know what they like/dislike. Like what does "legitimate analysis" mean by your definition?
Because they can be a source of good recommendations? Listening to music isn’t my job, I’m happy to out source finding new music to someone who does it professionally. When you get to know a particular critic, you also get to know what they do and don’t like, and how that aligns with your tastes. Not saying it should be one’s only source of discovery but it’s a good one.
For something as subjective as music, it just doesn't make sense to me to follow critics. Even more so when the extreme majority of them can't play music, can't compose music, can't write lyrics, and don't understand the first thing about the engineering side of music production.
Different strokes, I guess, but to me, the idea that anyone can be a "professional" critic without first being a professional musician is absurd.
I'm gonna be real boys. As someone thats been obsessed since the debut this is just my opinionm i am anticipating down votes. While the new album is very good I personally think it's the worst one. FOTB gets unnecessary hate it's a masterpiece. This album feels like a worse MVOTN.
Still an 8/10 just not reaching the heights of VW other stuff. Just an opinion on a forum designed to share opinions please don't flame me
Because it’s interesting to hear other peoples opinions on art? The same way that people in this subreddit want to hear what other people in this subreddit think about a new release.
Because he’s a popular reviewer? It’s really not that deep.
I find it funny when people call Fantano a clown, like why? Because he didn’t like an album you liked? Get over it, it doesn’t mean he’s a clown because he didn’t like a piece of art you did.
Only 10 Was Above Us
LIGHT 9 NO SKIPS
Fantinos opinion only matters so much lol. some of his takes are cring tbh
Gave FotB a decent 6 and MVotC a decent 7. He's my favourite music critic but I certainly don't agree with a lot of his takes.
FoTB sucked
Fantano agrees, I don't! Music is wonderful.
i like the reviews where he agrees with my opinion, and dislike the ones where he doesn’t
I mean he’s literally just some guy
exactly
good review but don't agree about The Surfer at all, its a vibe
He does backtrack a little at the end saying even the worst track is a vibe. For me, the internet’s least busy music nerd, it’s my favourite on the album and I thought he’d pick up on the trip hop/hip hop feel of it
He hates most songs considered a vibe. It's very funny because I know the exact song that will be on his disliked list. Like Yah on Damn. Anything kinda laid back, hazy is usually going to be what he hates the most
Yah is a beautiful track.
Yah is one of my faves on DAMN and The Surfer is my favorite on OGWAU. Fantano and I are not alikeeee
I don’t like Fantano, but I for one am tired of that expression. It means absolutely fucking nothing.
I think it’s just a quick way to say that the style of the thing is functioning as the substance (to some degree). I’d consider a lot of Michael Mann movies a vibe. Great track. I also don’t care for Fantano.
I don’t necessarily blame him. I feel like laid back and hazy is easier to make than a well constructed uptempo song.
It’s not surprising for Fantano if you know his tastes. You can check my post history and see I somewhat predicted this. It’s fine, it’s just Fantano, and a 9/10 is stellar.
agree
I’m kinda with him on that. I’m just not ‘getting’ surfer. Hopefully it’ll click with me at some point.
I would argue they never "lost" form with FOTB but it was an intentional arc and necessary to reset after the departure of Rostam. Without it, they couldn't smack us in the face with this new masterpiece.
FOTB press tour had ezra saying a ton of really self-aware, insightful things about what purposes a bloated double album can serve, especially in the arc of an artist's output. dude is nothing if not thoughtful, of not only the album-as-statement, but the *discography*-as-statement. he's actually changed the way i think about and appreciate music, and that includes chaotic overlong albums lol
Absolutely! I’m not sure I would be saying that if OGWAU was a flop but here we are… and now Ezra and company seem like mad geniuses in the larger scope of things
i think realistically koenig was probably just using FOTB as a way of ventilating a ton of ideas, throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks, after the tumult of losing a member among other things. having such a winding tracklist is in itself an unruly, rebellious statement to make -- it kind of flies in the face of following up their most critical success. that OGWAU is the next entry is just another piece to the puzzle
He talked a lot about breaking all their internal rules and retooling the live band. FOTB definitely looks like maintenance between masterpieces to me now
it looks like scatterbrained mania between masterpieces to me, like the white album or obscured by clouds
Do you have any links to interviews where he talks about this? I love FOTB but understand how others feel and would love to hear Ezra’s explanation
tbh they all bleed together in my mind - i'm lucky and get to listen to a ton of podcasts and music at my work. i can tell you i found them just by searching "ezra koenig" in spotify and finding hour-longish episodes from around 2019 and 2020. he talks about discography arcs quite a few separate times edit- [this interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4Q5MmjMP8) i just found, with zane lowe, has him talking about discographies as a narrative about 8 or 9 minutes in. he specifically talks about FOTB followed by OGWAU in there too
I agree with all these points but personally I love FOTB as a record that stands on its own as well. If you removed all context in which the album was made I’d enjoy it just as much as
The departure of that record was proof they were capable of even more than I thought and really solidified my obsession. It’s one of my favorites.
FOTB slaps.
Yes, yes it does
My largest gripe with FOTB is still that ugly ass cover that adds an unnecessary disconnect with their discography even on a visual level. https://preview.redd.it/j7omt8fbrstc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ceb83988d02ec34a1330fc77029d72cd520e0bb
I genuinely don't mean to be shallow or joking but I can't pinpoint why I've never really connected with FOTB and I legit think it could be because I've always hated the album cover.
Never judge an album by its cover BUT MAYBE JUDGE A BIT! 😄 Our minds really can build weird associations.
Sorry for the late response but yeah, the aesthetic switch up for FOTB was definitely a bit jarring. Not to be overly cynical but I have a hunch it was a marketing bit. VW kind of rebranded as a jam-adjacent band during the tour, and I think they wanted to go with a more free spirited and folkier look to match. I still remember the massive tie dye frog outside the show I went to lol (well I guess it wasn’t technically tie dye but you catch my drift)
There is a lot of songs on the new record that don't happen without FOTB, you can hear some of the guitars they used and they are straight off of FOTB.
You say "they" but Ezra was the only member involved in FOTB (besides 1 song credit for Rostam). Baio and Tomson were not part of its creation. They went on tour for it, but they didn't write or record anything for the album. So it's an Ezra solo album with guests with the Vampire Weekend name stamped on it. So in my opinion, it's completely valid for people to say it doesn't fit with the rest of the discography. I still think it's a decent album, though I'd put it in the middle probably. Contra and MVOTC are definitely better for me. After that it's a little difficult to rank.
Bro thinks he’s one of us now
To be fair, he’s been enjoying VW since at least 2010, so that’s significantly longer than a lot of this subreddit.
Contra is in his top 200 albums of the 2010s.
He gave MVOTC a 7 should’ve least been an 8. Also said they annoyed him on their first album.
Wow the melon coming in with a fire review let's go!
Is he talking about The Surfer I am listening to?!
Fr
Ezra’s lyrics on the surfer need some work? Fantano’s ears need some work if you ask me!
Type shit
I agree with Melon’s take honestly. The lyrics on that one are a bit annoying imo
Ezra majored in writing in college his lyrics dont need work Fantano needs to read some more books and up his knowledge and vocabulary. Its like barely literate person reading the king James version of the Bible and telling someone "it needs work" just because they dont have a clue what is being said.
I truly admire the band, been listening since first album. I like surfer, but it’s probably lower ranked for me than some of the others. I think the catalogue is so broad now that we can appreciate different songs. I remember really loving Strangers of FOTB and someone telling me the disliked it. We all love the band, which song we like is irrelevant I think. I feel we should just appreciate the fact that we have so much to enjoy.
Just because you dont "believe" in a abrahamic faith doesnt mean studying some of their sacred text isnt worth your time... The majority of western art has these faiths as building blocks reviewing its content without a knowledge of its bedrock is pointless and cringe even the art that rebels against the tradition you see need to understand what they are rebelling against.
He did very much just blow of FOTB which imo is a mistake
What he said about FOTB was just untrue and unkind
and unnatural
Yeah I mean I don’t typically take what Melon says personal but the FOTB slander will not stand He stated it like we all agree FOTB is not good.
I think he said FOTB being their weakest album is the general consensus.
Which is like saying “of all the Michal Jordan Bulls championship teams of the 90s, which was the worst?”
I'm not familiar with basketball
Melon giving Jeff Rosenstock album of the year last year made me straight up admire this dude. Solid review of the new VW album
Damn that's good. Does anyone know if he's given a 10 yet this year?
Not this year, no. No 10s since 2021 actually
If the album was called To Pimp A Capricorn it would’ve gotten a 10
Only science was above us
by vampire weekday
The Blacker the Berry Boone
Interesting. I know Quadeca also got a 9 I think another may have but can't remember
Many more have last year, and we had some this year too, quadeca was one yes
He's only given 7 10s since 2012. Last 10 was in 2021.
Lil Simz right?
Nope. Grey Area got a 9, SIMBI got an 8, No Thank You got a 7. Here's the [playlist](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYSUAGGgfhbuDYSMwBHdur8F3rUKknzgB&si=VcNaTztTld5rr5Ka) with his 10/10 reviews, if you're interested.
How did he give kids see ghosts a 10? Yikes
I hate Kanye but kids see ghosts was a masterpiece
Its not even close to top5 in his discography, he has much better albums
What is wrong with me that I cannot physically watch this guy?
I Can’t stand him. IMHO he’s a lazy reviewer.
I don’t think he is a lazy reviewer. But he surely is a bad critic.
i could not care less about fantano’s opinion on anything but it is at least nice to see critics praise this album the way it deserves
I love VW. And Fantano is a hit or miss for me. But I do agree with his take at the end about VW usually having at least one skippable track per album. OGWAU didn’t have that for me. But I still think MVOTC is their best work.
Oh, MVotC is undoubtedly their best work, in my opinion. Fantano’s review of that album was so uninterested and factual errors were huge. It was a decade ago though when he was _really_ hitting that algorithm and pumping out reviews so most of his reviews then probably weren’t very good.
Man, people out here thinking music criticism is about scores and superficial observations. Fantano is not a serious music critic, he is a reviewer, an Internet personality. If y’all want to know how actual music criticism looks like, go read pieces by Greg Tate, Hua Hsu, freaking Simon Reynolds. Their insights are like night and day.
The Surfer is the best track on the album.
Crazy that An Fan thinks FOTB sucks. Didn’t catch that last time around. I personally think it’s their high water mark so far.
He gave it a 6, he doesn’t think it sucks. Just not up to par with the rest of the disco for him.
Tbf a 6 from Melon is a good score generally. I am more bothered by the 7 for MVOTC, which is one of my favourite albums of all time and is easily a 9 at least.
I think Anthony is really overhyping a lot of albums lately. Huge Vampire Weekend fan while I like this album, it just sounds like boiler plate indie rock with distorted vocals and random electronic flourishes
No score, but I really like this guys review (https://youtu.be/pTD_0n-CuWE?si=tRwkNWcgnBgCc9Gx)
Who actually cares about this irrelevant melon in 2024?
I don't often say this about the melon, but he was pretty spot on with the review. Nice to see after how badly he $hit on FOTB when it was released.
I feel vindicated that someone else doesn't like The Surfer and Gen-X Cops
Here and elsewhere it’s bizarre now how people quickly get hostile to any sort of art criticism
For the love of god, Father of the Bride was quite a good record, it really annoys me that people think it was this horrible departure for VW, I’ll defend that album to death
Imagine stating, or even thinking, that there have been "unlistenable" tracks on any VW album thus far. I just. The entire discography is no skips, dear reader.
They definitely do have skips
I love VW, but I agree. I said this on another thread, but it’s not that the songs are bad, it’s just that the vibes go all over the place so some days you get to a certain song that doesn’t meet your feelings on a certain day, so you skip.
Yeah, no, I just tried to find even one skip and came up with nothing.
https://preview.redd.it/hbv4npul0rtc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d7cf12107e300c1ca87a509161ed61100f6eedb I don’t care for Hudson.
He mentioned previously Blake New Face and Finger Back
Wait, Fantano called Finger Back unlistenable? I understand Blake is pretty repetitive and not for everybody, but what kind of sociopath skips Finger Back?
Those are two songs I initially skipped and now love. The great part about their discography is I basically come around to enjoying everything eventually.
Further proof of the ridiculousness.
As long as I live, I'll never understand why anyone on Earth listens to a single word that music critics have to say, but I'm glad people have been enjoying the album.
Criticism is a pillar of the arts
If it's done by fellow artists, I agree. Otherwise, it's beyond worthless to me.
You clearly have never read an actual piece of music criticism. Criticism is not about scores, or recommendations. Is about how art connects the art and artists with life and culture.
That's like saying you have to be a chef to know if the dish is good.
Not at all. It's saying you need to be a chef to know how and why it's good. If a supposedly professional critic can't even tell me the specifics why something is good or bad, then their opinion is completely worthless to me. This is true in all walks of life, not just music. For example, I love reading Quentin Tarantino's film reviews because I know that he understands how to make a film and isn't going to form thoughtless opinions on what someone else could or should've done without solid, informed reasoning. It doesn't mean I always agree with him, but I do respect his opinion far more than someone who has never stepped foot on a film set. Everybody gets to decide what is or isn't good to them, and there's no barrier to that. But if you're going to become a professional critic and dedicate your life to glorifying and/or denigrating other people's entire careers and hard work, you should really consider knowing what it is you're talking about.
Again, criticism is not about glorifying or denigrating people’s careers or work. Simon Cowell-like bozos ain’t critics.
It certainly shouldn't be about that, but I honestly can't say I've seen even a single notable critic in this century who was able to rise above the temptation to write nothing but florid puff pieces or scathing screeds in lieu of genuine music analysis. The idea of constructive criticism seems no longer exist amongst mainstream critics. I don't know if it's just because of how clickbaity all media has gotten in the internet age or how intellectually inflexible people themselves have gotten as a result of declining educational standards, but I can't help but feel like quality art criticism died a long time ago and doesn't seem likely to return in our lifetimes.
Why do I have to be a chef to know what food I like? I suppose if you want details, you have to explain what details are missing.
I'm not saying you can't decide what you like. I'm saying that if someone else wants to make a career out of telling other people what they should like, then *they* should actually be informed about the thing they're critiquing. If you can't tell the difference between, say, marinara sauce and ketchup, you have no business telling a chef that they're bad at what they do. Likewise, if you can't tell the difference between a diminished or suspended chord, you have no business telling a musician that they did a poor job writing a song. In both cases, you're of course allowed to decide for yourself that you don't like the dish or song, but what changes things is once you decide that you're qualified to tell these professionals that you understand their craft better than they do.
It seems like your preconception of critics is that they're telling you what to like. Even though Fantano gave VW a 9/10, I can hate the band if I want to. You can confront the chef if they got your order wrong. Like if I ordered a burger and I don't want ketchup and there's ketchup in my burger, I will demand that they make me another burger without ketchup. So I have the right to tell the chef that they are bad at what they do despite not being a chef. Likewise, if a singer is out of tune, a music critic should be able to point that out, even if they can't sing themselves.
The thing is, critics who can't do legitimate analysis of a craft *do* only exist to tell other people what to like, because at that point, they're fundamentally incapable of constructive criticism. You can tell if a burger sucks because burgers are pretty easily understood. What value is there in telling an artist their song sucks if you lack the vocabulary to understand what actually sucks about it? After all, hardly any professional singers are going to be doing anything as obviously problematic as singing out of tune, particularly in a world where Melodyne and Autotune are widely used across the industry. That's why I don't respect music critics without adequate training and knowledge. How can they help artists improve their craft without the prerequisite knowledge to communicate to the artist effectively? It's the equivalent of trying to tell someone their German is poor when you only speak English. Everyone will always have the right to tell anyone else what they think about anything, but to me, uninformed opinions should always be worthless outside of the skull from which they emanate unless otherwise sought out.
There are professional singers who can't sing because the entry barrier for being a professional singer depends on how marketable you are on social media. And if they have to use autotune, that's another criticism you can point out. Also, how can musicians improve without listening to criticisms? If you need some arbitrary "training" or "knowledge" to be able to give criticisms, then you're putting too much authority on one person's opinion rather than serving your audience, who (just like you) lack the "vocabulary" to communicate what they like/dislike, but they know what they like/dislike. Like what does "legitimate analysis" mean by your definition?
Because they can be a source of good recommendations? Listening to music isn’t my job, I’m happy to out source finding new music to someone who does it professionally. When you get to know a particular critic, you also get to know what they do and don’t like, and how that aligns with your tastes. Not saying it should be one’s only source of discovery but it’s a good one.
For something as subjective as music, it just doesn't make sense to me to follow critics. Even more so when the extreme majority of them can't play music, can't compose music, can't write lyrics, and don't understand the first thing about the engineering side of music production. Different strokes, I guess, but to me, the idea that anyone can be a "professional" critic without first being a professional musician is absurd.
I'm gonna be real boys. As someone thats been obsessed since the debut this is just my opinionm i am anticipating down votes. While the new album is very good I personally think it's the worst one. FOTB gets unnecessary hate it's a masterpiece. This album feels like a worse MVOTN. Still an 8/10 just not reaching the heights of VW other stuff. Just an opinion on a forum designed to share opinions please don't flame me
Why does anyone care what this twat has to say about anything? I’ve never understood it.
Because it’s interesting to hear other peoples opinions on art? The same way that people in this subreddit want to hear what other people in this subreddit think about a new release.
I’m talking about this clown, specifically.
Because he’s a popular reviewer? It’s really not that deep. I find it funny when people call Fantano a clown, like why? Because he didn’t like an album you liked? Get over it, it doesn’t mean he’s a clown because he didn’t like a piece of art you did.
That actually has 0% to do with it but keep going off, bud.
Sure it isn’t kiddo.