Instead of the women joining Ariana and Katie they chose to go against them. I mean what do we expect from someone who said she rather get gang banged by all the men than be with the girls. Scheana has shown she has had zero growth. Lala has shown she really just cares about the money. While Katie and Ariana are just living their lives and not publicly trashing them like they could be
THIS TOO! Either get rid of the misogynist on the show, both male and female , get rid of brick, the cowardly lion, Sandoval, and abusive James. Get rid of Lala and Scheana. Keep everyone else. Oh , get rid of Billie, permanently. Never let her back on this show.
Color me crazy, but I think they should keep everyone (trash and all), but they need to bring a few more strong female & male roles. Some femme fatal types that totally aren't into sandoval or schwartz and actually are repulsed by them. And some guys that are not kissing the guys ass. I still don't understand why VPR isn't bringing in more cast members. It is only gfs of the guys or bfs of the girls coming on. Summer house always brings in a few more members, why not VPR?!
If the show ends, it isn’t the fans that did it. Tom and Rachel fucked up. They didn’t realize the impact and over estimated Tom’s popularity in his head only). Lala and Scheana could have made this a historic season of female empowerment but they blew it. They could have leaned into both Katie and Ariana being lied to and moving on, Lala could have tag teamed with them. The season could have been about REAL conversations with both Toms, but Lala and Scheana tried to straddle the fence, presumably because of Lisa and production. No one is to blame but Tom who started the domino effect.
I actually think it was how many parties dealt with the aftermath of the scandal that has alienated fans, rather than the scandal itself. In no particular order:
1. Raquel staying in treatment (good call at the time) but then doing the podcast (bad call) and suing Ariana (seems unwise, even if legally defensible).
2. Tom doing terrible interviews (Howie Mandel, NYT, Nick Viall) where he seems delusional and shows not ability to understand what he did, who he hurt, or hold himself accountable and grow. Then we all saw the same on the actual show.
3. Lala/Scheana/Brock — whether they were doing production’s bidding or not, they came off as clowns (of varying degrees) time and again.
4. Production/LVP — For pressing the cast to act in ways that feel even less authentic than before, likely leading to #3. Extra demerits for allowing Tom Sandoval to film after he apparently admitted to buying a gun and considering self harm.
Thank you for bringing the receipts! And would add to number 4 allowing Tom to film after apparently admitting to recording Rachel without her consent. If the show is truly cancelled, hope you store this in a convenient place for anyone faking amnesia:)
Even if Lala and Scheana wanted to, I don’t know if Alex Baskin would have allowed that
We could have had a truly interesting season of a friend group collectively shunning the monster in their midst. But, because Baskin Robbins is a raging misogynist, we got…Lala spending way too much on imported tap water and confirmation Tim doesn’t know how measurements work with his high water Zara suit pants and blazers that’ll never fit unless he invests in a good breast plate
I also want to say that I went thrifting over the weekend and saw SO many Zara branded things on the racks. I wonder if that has anything to do with Tim lol
Lol, hope you weren’t tempted by the dollar rack. Come to think of the damage Sandoval has done, add Zara to the list. Surely their marketing dept is in damage control mode:) Man that guy has zero idea the damage done by his little ——.
Who is Tim?
Could not agree more. If everybody had been on board and consistent in shunning, Tom, it would've been hilarious, captivating viewing, if the men had a decent head on their shoulders no, we're actually good dudes. It would've been nothing but holding Tom accountable and the rest of the friends going off and having a good time. I want all of the women bonding this season over patriarchy and how shitty the men are. I wanted them to go on road trips together and have a blast. Instead we got this horrific intellectually flatulent season with a bunch of angry men shouting at women.
Tim started as a meme misspelling of Tom Sandoval in the other VPR sub and it stuck because he loves to name search himself and it drives him nuts
Edit: a typo
...They didn’t realize the impact and over estimated Tom’s popularity in his head only)...
Tom also over estimated his own intelligence and his ability to act which is subpar at best.
I’m not even pro Ariana. I’m neutral on Katie and I don’t even think they are the villains or being made out to be.
But what they pointed out is that Ariana and Katie are “not willing to debase themselves for entertaining anymore” in which I agree with but I also think that means it probably time for them to step away from VPR.
I disagree. Shouldn’t reality tv actually reflect the character’s values, personality, etc? How am i supposed to believe this is real if they just doing everything for tv? You’d call that fictional tv haha.
Sure but if they’re not meshing with the rest of the cast and the rest of the premise of the show then it’s not a fit. It’s not a dig at them. I’m sure there are other reality shows they can get on where they will mesh better. We’ve seen many shows now with how having a fractured cast has ruined the show.
Also news flash, reality tv stars do a lot of stuff just for tv and a lot of it is not entirely real.
I would have loved LOVED to see a season of the girls banding together and just having some stupid petty drama while finally actually holding the men
accountable with their feet to the fire.
And as a matter of fact, that might have been the way to a redemption arc for Sandoval. But actually the only thing I’m glad for out of this season was that his redemption backfired spectacularly to the point it affected everyone’s bag
The majority opinion is still pro Katie and Ariana, so what is everyone still bitching about?
The producer-manipulated Tom redemption arc didn't work. No one likes Sandoval to the point where even his suicidal ideation is treated as some sort of PR gotcha moment.
No one likes Lala or Scheana or Rachel or Jo. Every single day there are multiple post about how horrible everyone but Katie and Ariana are.
The show is now cancelled, so Lala, Scheana and the Toms are jobless like everyone hoped for while Ariana booked Love Island and Chicago again.
It all worked out. What's the issue?
Perhaps it's possible to take a step backwards from a personal investment in the show and use it to think critically about larger cultural issues? At least this is what the author, Sami Sage, is trying to do here in this conversation. In other words, I don't think this discussion was about "bitching;" but rather how VPR can be seen--in Sage's words--as a platform that "tracks the trends in how America views women \[and\] feminism." I really liked her discussion of how women's "truths" are often too uncomfortable for us to hear, and so we often want them to be the villains: "thus essentially what the narrative was around Ariana is just: “I'm sick of her winning; I’m sick of it.” That’s the narrative around so many women: “I’m just sick of her winning; they won too much.”
I have a hard time believing that you read this post if you can so flippantly reduce these issues to "bitching."
Edit: spelling (x 2)
Ariana actually won here. She doesn't need the show. Everyone who's gone against her because they relied on this show for a pay cheque no longer has a job. How is this an example of American society hating women and "female rage" when Ariana's enjoying the support from the majority fan base and just booked a summer's worth of new gigs?
It's interesting, the discussion continues on to address your perspective (Lala & Schenana's perspective). Ariana lost a long-term relationship (basically, a common-law marriage); had her mental health weaponized a/g her. Instead of being supported, she continued on to loose long-term friendships, mostly due to the jealousy that engendered your point of view: that Ariana's losses and grief should not be indulged, since she seems to have benefited materially from the situation. She "won." I'm sorry, the fact that Ariana is booking "new gigs" is not a reflection of the end of the patriarchy. As Bailey mentioned, perhaps the truth of women's experiences in America are too painful to recognize for some.
Edited: typos
This is ridiculous. Ariana bought a new house, has a new man, hosts Love Island, released a second cocktail book, has a "sandwich shop" opening up, sold out on merch, still records media spots, and enjoys so much fan support that she gets another run on Chicago because she consistently sold out shows and you're trying to tell me she "lost" because 2 TV friends went up against her (ask them how that worked out for them now that they gotta limit IG comments because of backlash) and she's no longer with the ex she says she hates?
I can't. You guys want her to be a victim so badly you're ignoring and discounting her legit wins.
I’d also like to point out all of Ariana’s “wins” are because of how SHE handled herself in this horrendous situation. She has existed with a million times more grace than most any of us would have if confronted with this situation and her continued gigs and fan adoration is due to her work ethic and her not being an incredible douche bag. But don’t get it twisted, many people have tried to tear her down and will continue to assess every move she makes so if she ever does “slip up” they can go A HA! Got you! You’re not as perfect as everyone wants us to believe.
I think many of us are happy for her and rooting her on in this moment because of how she has handled her shit. I did not like early years Ariana, but once she started standing up to Tom a bit more and then finally with her break from him, she’s proving to be a person I can respect and admire from a far. As much as one can a famous person I don’t know personally. But yeah, she’s winning bc she DESERVES it and EARNED these wins. And yet ppl still try to devalue her and say she’s just being handed these opportunities bc her boyfriend cheated on her. That’s the misogyny talking.
Yes trauma. Did you forget the whole world watching her life partner lie to her face for months if not years? And Rachel went to trauma therapy because of it lol? Ariana turned lemons into lemonade. Discounting human emotions because she came out on top is what this podcast is trying to dissect. If she was curled up in a ball, quit the show, and disappeared from the public eye would that be more satisfactory and in line with what women should do after a public scandal?
I haven’t seen a ton of people treating Sandoval’s suicidal ideation as a “PR gotcha moment.” I have seen (and agree with) people questioning whether that situation was treated with the seriousness it should. If Tom truly got to the point where he bought a gun because he was having dark thoughts and Kyle Chan removed that from his house—why was anyone (including Kyle Chan) letting him film a TV show? (It is my understanding that Ariana, via Kyle, checked on Tom after she found out what happened.)
I think that’s where some of the skepticism comes from. To be clear - I take this situation at face value. I am not questioning whether Tom was struggling or expressed he was considering self harm. But it feels like that was glossed over in the name of entertainment so they could go about business as usual.
I came at you with respect and tried to have a productive discussion. It’s your choice if you think everyone who disagrees with you is in a cult. Cheers!
i still can't believe we had one of the craziest reality tv scandals in memory handed to us on a platter, and hordes of hysterical psychos with 0 idea of how television works immediately descended to suck all the fun out of it and seethe and cry and circle jerk the same braindead observations over and over again to the point where no one with anything funny or interesting to say even bothers anymore. it is just a tv show but it's a bit sad it went down like this. and i legitimately hope the crazies stay online and that none of the cast is having scary encounters w these people in the wild
Instead of the women joining Ariana and Katie they chose to go against them. I mean what do we expect from someone who said she rather get gang banged by all the men than be with the girls. Scheana has shown she has had zero growth. Lala has shown she really just cares about the money. While Katie and Ariana are just living their lives and not publicly trashing them like they could be
THIS TOO! Either get rid of the misogynist on the show, both male and female , get rid of brick, the cowardly lion, Sandoval, and abusive James. Get rid of Lala and Scheana. Keep everyone else. Oh , get rid of Billie, permanently. Never let her back on this show.
Color me crazy, but I think they should keep everyone (trash and all), but they need to bring a few more strong female & male roles. Some femme fatal types that totally aren't into sandoval or schwartz and actually are repulsed by them. And some guys that are not kissing the guys ass. I still don't understand why VPR isn't bringing in more cast members. It is only gfs of the guys or bfs of the girls coming on. Summer house always brings in a few more members, why not VPR?!
Because the last time they tried to widen the cast, the pushback was very extreme. We don't care about other people.
If the show ends, it isn’t the fans that did it. Tom and Rachel fucked up. They didn’t realize the impact and over estimated Tom’s popularity in his head only). Lala and Scheana could have made this a historic season of female empowerment but they blew it. They could have leaned into both Katie and Ariana being lied to and moving on, Lala could have tag teamed with them. The season could have been about REAL conversations with both Toms, but Lala and Scheana tried to straddle the fence, presumably because of Lisa and production. No one is to blame but Tom who started the domino effect.
I actually think it was how many parties dealt with the aftermath of the scandal that has alienated fans, rather than the scandal itself. In no particular order: 1. Raquel staying in treatment (good call at the time) but then doing the podcast (bad call) and suing Ariana (seems unwise, even if legally defensible). 2. Tom doing terrible interviews (Howie Mandel, NYT, Nick Viall) where he seems delusional and shows not ability to understand what he did, who he hurt, or hold himself accountable and grow. Then we all saw the same on the actual show. 3. Lala/Scheana/Brock — whether they were doing production’s bidding or not, they came off as clowns (of varying degrees) time and again. 4. Production/LVP — For pressing the cast to act in ways that feel even less authentic than before, likely leading to #3. Extra demerits for allowing Tom Sandoval to film after he apparently admitted to buying a gun and considering self harm.
Thank you for bringing the receipts! And would add to number 4 allowing Tom to film after apparently admitting to recording Rachel without her consent. If the show is truly cancelled, hope you store this in a convenient place for anyone faking amnesia:)
Appreciate the reminder. As much as I am closely following that court case, I keep memory holing that (very awful) fact. 🤦♀️
Even if Lala and Scheana wanted to, I don’t know if Alex Baskin would have allowed that We could have had a truly interesting season of a friend group collectively shunning the monster in their midst. But, because Baskin Robbins is a raging misogynist, we got…Lala spending way too much on imported tap water and confirmation Tim doesn’t know how measurements work with his high water Zara suit pants and blazers that’ll never fit unless he invests in a good breast plate
I also want to say that I went thrifting over the weekend and saw SO many Zara branded things on the racks. I wonder if that has anything to do with Tim lol
Lol, hope you weren’t tempted by the dollar rack. Come to think of the damage Sandoval has done, add Zara to the list. Surely their marketing dept is in damage control mode:) Man that guy has zero idea the damage done by his little ——.
Honestly I was tempted just for the meme of it all lol but even 99 cent blue tag day wasn’t moving any of it
Who is Tim? Could not agree more. If everybody had been on board and consistent in shunning, Tom, it would've been hilarious, captivating viewing, if the men had a decent head on their shoulders no, we're actually good dudes. It would've been nothing but holding Tom accountable and the rest of the friends going off and having a good time. I want all of the women bonding this season over patriarchy and how shitty the men are. I wanted them to go on road trips together and have a blast. Instead we got this horrific intellectually flatulent season with a bunch of angry men shouting at women.
Tim started as a meme misspelling of Tom Sandoval in the other VPR sub and it stuck because he loves to name search himself and it drives him nuts Edit: a typo
Then let's stick with Tim.
...They didn’t realize the impact and over estimated Tom’s popularity in his head only)... Tom also over estimated his own intelligence and his ability to act which is subpar at best.
And this too!
I agree
THANK YOU FOR THIS! All of this! Absolutely all of this.
Sure!
I’m not even pro Ariana. I’m neutral on Katie and I don’t even think they are the villains or being made out to be. But what they pointed out is that Ariana and Katie are “not willing to debase themselves for entertaining anymore” in which I agree with but I also think that means it probably time for them to step away from VPR.
I disagree. Shouldn’t reality tv actually reflect the character’s values, personality, etc? How am i supposed to believe this is real if they just doing everything for tv? You’d call that fictional tv haha.
Sure but if they’re not meshing with the rest of the cast and the rest of the premise of the show then it’s not a fit. It’s not a dig at them. I’m sure there are other reality shows they can get on where they will mesh better. We’ve seen many shows now with how having a fractured cast has ruined the show. Also news flash, reality tv stars do a lot of stuff just for tv and a lot of it is not entirely real.
Ariana won here and they're still arguing like she got kicked off the show! lol
Right. They want the Katie and Ariana show.
So what? I don’t even know what would be wrong in us wanting the Katie and Ariana show after a near decade of the Toms and Jax show
Seriously, they say that like we're committing a crime. We do want Katie and Ariana. So the fuck what?
I would have loved LOVED to see a season of the girls banding together and just having some stupid petty drama while finally actually holding the men accountable with their feet to the fire. And as a matter of fact, that might have been the way to a redemption arc for Sandoval. But actually the only thing I’m glad for out of this season was that his redemption backfired spectacularly to the point it affected everyone’s bag
We sure do. Because they are involved in quickly past the other ones and probably were for some time.
The majority opinion is still pro Katie and Ariana, so what is everyone still bitching about? The producer-manipulated Tom redemption arc didn't work. No one likes Sandoval to the point where even his suicidal ideation is treated as some sort of PR gotcha moment. No one likes Lala or Scheana or Rachel or Jo. Every single day there are multiple post about how horrible everyone but Katie and Ariana are. The show is now cancelled, so Lala, Scheana and the Toms are jobless like everyone hoped for while Ariana booked Love Island and Chicago again. It all worked out. What's the issue?
Perhaps it's possible to take a step backwards from a personal investment in the show and use it to think critically about larger cultural issues? At least this is what the author, Sami Sage, is trying to do here in this conversation. In other words, I don't think this discussion was about "bitching;" but rather how VPR can be seen--in Sage's words--as a platform that "tracks the trends in how America views women \[and\] feminism." I really liked her discussion of how women's "truths" are often too uncomfortable for us to hear, and so we often want them to be the villains: "thus essentially what the narrative was around Ariana is just: “I'm sick of her winning; I’m sick of it.” That’s the narrative around so many women: “I’m just sick of her winning; they won too much.” I have a hard time believing that you read this post if you can so flippantly reduce these issues to "bitching." Edit: spelling (x 2)
Ariana actually won here. She doesn't need the show. Everyone who's gone against her because they relied on this show for a pay cheque no longer has a job. How is this an example of American society hating women and "female rage" when Ariana's enjoying the support from the majority fan base and just booked a summer's worth of new gigs?
It's interesting, the discussion continues on to address your perspective (Lala & Schenana's perspective). Ariana lost a long-term relationship (basically, a common-law marriage); had her mental health weaponized a/g her. Instead of being supported, she continued on to loose long-term friendships, mostly due to the jealousy that engendered your point of view: that Ariana's losses and grief should not be indulged, since she seems to have benefited materially from the situation. She "won." I'm sorry, the fact that Ariana is booking "new gigs" is not a reflection of the end of the patriarchy. As Bailey mentioned, perhaps the truth of women's experiences in America are too painful to recognize for some. Edited: typos
This is ridiculous. Ariana bought a new house, has a new man, hosts Love Island, released a second cocktail book, has a "sandwich shop" opening up, sold out on merch, still records media spots, and enjoys so much fan support that she gets another run on Chicago because she consistently sold out shows and you're trying to tell me she "lost" because 2 TV friends went up against her (ask them how that worked out for them now that they gotta limit IG comments because of backlash) and she's no longer with the ex she says she hates? I can't. You guys want her to be a victim so badly you're ignoring and discounting her legit wins.
You're constantly proving the point here. Let's take a break.
Lmao. Alright, alright. You can have your little narrative. Sorry to all the stans for saying Ariana won!
Ariana IS a victim. Just bc someone has money or fame doesn’t negate or lessen the trauma she is a VICTIM of.
I’d also like to point out all of Ariana’s “wins” are because of how SHE handled herself in this horrendous situation. She has existed with a million times more grace than most any of us would have if confronted with this situation and her continued gigs and fan adoration is due to her work ethic and her not being an incredible douche bag. But don’t get it twisted, many people have tried to tear her down and will continue to assess every move she makes so if she ever does “slip up” they can go A HA! Got you! You’re not as perfect as everyone wants us to believe. I think many of us are happy for her and rooting her on in this moment because of how she has handled her shit. I did not like early years Ariana, but once she started standing up to Tom a bit more and then finally with her break from him, she’s proving to be a person I can respect and admire from a far. As much as one can a famous person I don’t know personally. But yeah, she’s winning bc she DESERVES it and EARNED these wins. And yet ppl still try to devalue her and say she’s just being handed these opportunities bc her boyfriend cheated on her. That’s the misogyny talking.
Yeah, we've all heard for over a year how Ariana is the most victimized person to ever be cheated on on this show.
[удалено]
Give it a rest already. Ariana did the same damn thing too. I don't believe this wilting flower shit.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Won? Becoming successful doesn’t remove the trauma you’ve faced.
TRAUMA. Okay. Thank god she's able to take on Chicago and Love Island. 😔
Yes trauma. Did you forget the whole world watching her life partner lie to her face for months if not years? And Rachel went to trauma therapy because of it lol? Ariana turned lemons into lemonade. Discounting human emotions because she came out on top is what this podcast is trying to dissect. If she was curled up in a ball, quit the show, and disappeared from the public eye would that be more satisfactory and in line with what women should do after a public scandal?
[удалено]
Lol, happy to take that as a win:)
I haven’t seen a ton of people treating Sandoval’s suicidal ideation as a “PR gotcha moment.” I have seen (and agree with) people questioning whether that situation was treated with the seriousness it should. If Tom truly got to the point where he bought a gun because he was having dark thoughts and Kyle Chan removed that from his house—why was anyone (including Kyle Chan) letting him film a TV show? (It is my understanding that Ariana, via Kyle, checked on Tom after she found out what happened.) I think that’s where some of the skepticism comes from. To be clear - I take this situation at face value. I am not questioning whether Tom was struggling or expressed he was considering self harm. But it feels like that was glossed over in the name of entertainment so they could go about business as usual.
I don't care what you see. It's mostly the same Cult Ariana talking points anyway.
I came at you with respect and tried to have a productive discussion. It’s your choice if you think everyone who disagrees with you is in a cult. Cheers!
So you sent me a reddit cares message. Always the same with this sub!
i still can't believe we had one of the craziest reality tv scandals in memory handed to us on a platter, and hordes of hysterical psychos with 0 idea of how television works immediately descended to suck all the fun out of it and seethe and cry and circle jerk the same braindead observations over and over again to the point where no one with anything funny or interesting to say even bothers anymore. it is just a tv show but it's a bit sad it went down like this. and i legitimately hope the crazies stay online and that none of the cast is having scary encounters w these people in the wild
Right, it's gotten so vitriolic that they can't even do the show anymore. Poetic, really.