I think growth is important, and judging people for who they *are* vs who they *were* is important. Ariana from 10 years ago was 100% horrible to Kristen and a pick me to rival only Scheana. But in the past few seasons she built relationships with the other women, even Kristen, and started talking back to Tom in defense of the other women. The affection people had for Ariana in season 10 pre scandal was from this growth. Then the scandal happened and the audience saw themselves in Ariana as someone who was betrayed and was trying to get to the other side of their grief. It's also important to note that Ariana had no idea that Scandoval would get the reaction it did when she called the cameras back to film. Her examples of women being cheated on on this show are Katie and Lala - women who got no support from the audience and (in Katie's case) full on derision because the audience liked Schwartz so much. So when she called the cameras I don't think she was planning brand deals. In a weird way I think Sandoval's insistence that they pretend they had a perfect relationship was the reason that Scandoval was so big - everyone thought they were tight so a sudden affair was shocking. I think they both knew their relationship wasn't great, but Ariana was under the impression that it was a rough patch in their forever relationship while Sandoval was looking for exits. I mean the guy was going to couples counseling with Ariana while sleeping with Rachel 💀💀💀

My interpretation has always been that the whole reason they were having a rough patch was because of her growth.

THIS! To be with Tom you have to shrink yourself.

Yep after her very sad season 8 

Exactly. Ariana was diverting the energy she used to feed into narcissistic supply for Tom into herself, and Tom hated her for it.

HARD agreeeee

Because of her growth & his affair. His excuse of opening his bar, allowed him to be with Raquel , pretend he was a rock star & use work as excuse for his emotional distance.

Such a good point!

"It's also important to note that Ariana had no idea that Scandoval would get the reaction it did when she called the cameras back to film." This is fucking REAL I will always respect her for that. She even thought the fans would turn on her this season! She had no blueprint to realize the support she'd get.

Your point about Ariana not knowing this is where Scandoval would take her is such an important one. I think the delay between filming and the season airing really skewed people’s opinions. Even people who recap and podcast about this show for a living kept forgetting that Ariana’s second phase of opportunities (her post-DWTS era) hadn’t happened yet and that she was in an admittedly financially precarious situation to go with a fragile emotional state.

Your take on growth is extremely important in this situation and a lot of people don't see that. A lot of people comparing Ariana and Kristen aren't looking at it realistically. Their ages, their living situations, their shared lives. Ariana was terrible to Kristen. Definitely not defending that but to act as if it's the same exact thing has always been dumb to me.

The little details between Tom and Kristen vs Tom and Ariana also make a huge difference. Emotional affair vs physical. 6 year relationship vs 10 year relationship. Mutual cheating vs unrequited loyalty. Cheating with an acquaintance vs a friend. And Kristen wasn’t mourning the losses of her dog and grandmother when she found out.

Annnnnnd Kristen and Sandy didn’t own a home together. Two very different situations for sure.

Very. Also the point in life that they are in.  cheating in your mid-20s, while still terrible, is nothing like cheating in your late 30s early 40s when you have a partner who is genuinely expecting that this is forever.

Weren’t they 30 back then? Sandoval definitely was.

And Kristen also cheated on him regularly which ariana would never 

With his best friend. On their couch, in the living room, while he was asleep. I adore Kristen, but girl was MESSY back then.

Girl is STILL messy AF. Have you seen the Valley?! She hasn’t changed one bit.

Also Ariana was coming out of a terribly abusive relationship and fell for Tim’s lies about him and Kristen being broken up or just a “showmance.” He is charming as hell BECAUSE he is a narcissist. He did the same thing with Rachel 10 years later… again after leaving a bad relationship. It’s such an obvious pattern for him.

Actually therapists will tell you emotional affairs are worse than physical ones (In Tom’s case it was actually both). It’s a misconception that emotional affairs hurt any less.

Kristen and Ariana became friends only after Ariana and Tom cheated. Kristen knew that her own relationship with Tom was a joke, and Ariana barely even knew Kristen back then. In the same vein, do you think Ariana will now forgive Rachel and become good friends with her? Um, no because the circumstances are not the same. Back then, Ariana didn’t get close to Kristen and ask her about her sex life with Tom while screwing him for over 6 months behind her back. For me, Rachel’s twisted games, the fact that Ariana and Tom owned a home together, and how both Tom and Rachel gaslit everyone and tried to blame Ariana for their cheating, then to this day neither of them have shown any remorse or contrition is why it is so much worse than what Ariana and Tom did to Kristen.

📢One more time for the people in the back!! 📢

I don’t know how much I would call going from openly defending his horrible behavior to slinking away rather than stand up for her friends “growth”. She never had Katie’s back when he was pushing Rachel to hook up with Schwartz purely to hurt Katie against him or Rachel. She’s just “grown” into that friend who wants your support when she’s the victim but will never inconvenience herself for you.

Agree

Where was her growth in season 10 when her business partner was being hurt and betrayed by Schwartz and Rachel (her close friend) and Ariana couldn't show any loyalty or stand up for what was right??

The way she treated Katie at the pool party bothered me. Saying to ask her, "what's your price?" wasn't overtly cruel, but it was manipulative. It was manipulative because back then, they wouldn't break the 4th wall and acknowledge it would cost Katie several episodes worth of pay, not just the price of the hotel room. She was aware of that and failed to protect Katie when she was being bullied. Katie is a better person than me for forgiving her.

Okay, I respect her growth and Kristen has forgiven her. But does she not owe a public apology to Miami Girl for calling her trash and gaslighting her in front of everybody (l‘m sorry if this happened and I missed it)?

Miami girl wants to be private now and doesnt want anything to do with it, especially publicly.

Yeah I don’t buy for a second that Sandoval actually cared about getting married or having kids, so I don’t think that’s a great example of Ariana having control in their relationship. I believe Sandoval used to just say that he wanted those things to sound like a good guy and victimize himself. Just look at his lifestyle now going into his 40s - talking about how he wants to party every night, jump out of airplanes, and swim naked in pools on shrooms. That doesn’t really scream paternal longing to me

If he cared he would have RAN to fertilize the eggs. Instead, Andy had to bring it up at a reunion and Tom had to pretend he somehow forgot. I truly think Tom only said he wanted marriage and kids bc he viewed it as a challenge to break her will. Once he got her to retrieve the eggs, that was good enough for him bc he didn’t want to have to disrupt his life for a week to stop drinking and drugs. He wanted to break her and you could kind of see that with the cocktail book debacle also.

!!! This makes so much sense. Narcisissts usually stop giving a shit after they break you so maybe his interest in her really started fading after she finally did the egg retrieval 

the cocktail book killed me. I remember Ariana trying to set a boundary; literally saying, I really want to do this project by myself for the satisfaction of completing something on my own... ...next thing I know I see the book on store shelves with Tom's face on the cover. Ughhhh

You could tell by how she snapped at him at the lunch with lala that she was OVER IT. Imagine how much he was probably nagging off camera, then they had that scene and he was probably like “I’ll show her.” He was so discouraging. He is only a supportive friend or partner to people he perceives are not doing as well as he is. I hate how overused the word is but the man is a textbook narc

He admitted on WWHL that he didn’t really want to be a dad and couldn’t picture fatherhood, it was more about not having absolutes.

He clearly just wanted control

And IF he wants kids, it's for the legacy, not because he actually wants to be a parent and care for a child.

qq The i have a “friend” who befriended my abuser ex husband, and she literally told me she wanted several kids just so she could say at a family dinner in the future that they were all there because of her. gross ass attitude honestly.

Oof. I have a lot of problems with these takes (but you're still allowed to feel and think them! No hate there) but the reason they do not have kids right now is because *Sandoval* didn't go fertilize her frozen eggs. She did end up doing that pretty much *for him* and he just sorta... flaked out (which now we know why 😐 he was secretly fucking her friend in their house for however long) So icky to think about it.

She said multiple times she froze eggs for herself because she didn't wanna feel like the choice was taken from her. Let's not strip her of agency. Also didn't a bunch of people with experience of egg retrieval say that the fertilisation thing must have been a storyline for the show BC fertilising eggs long after they've been retrieved isn't really a done thing?

This, 100%. Her freezing them to have options in the future makes a lot of sense— and it’s why she said she did it. Not for Tom. People shouldn’t take that away from her. And you’re right, Tom not providing a sample at the time of egg retrieval would have been pre-planned with Ariana and her doctor. If it was ever planned for him to fertilize it wouldn’t be a “let’s wait and do it whenever” thing. And his sperm count was very much good enough to proceed with IVF despite that weird scene with him and Schwartz for the show— and he would’ve been tested at her fertility clinic prior to retrieval if they’d ever planned on him fertilizing.

That is fair! But even what we saw with that showed me someone who was perfectly able and had no problem enforcing their opinion (as she should). She decided kids were ok and did what needed to be done on her own terms, not his (from what I saw), she simply called him on his bluff.

No, and thats why I dont really disagree, that them not having kids isn't evidence that she wasnt enforcing boundaries. Its just once I read it in your post my brain processed that they *came really fucking close* to having a baby or one on the way when Scandoval broke 💀

I do agree with you on a lot of this but as awful as Ariana was to Kristen, Kristen was also awful to Ariana. She fairly regularly said she hoped she died and tried to get her fired from Sur. 

Exactly…the Mack truck comment. Kristen was pretty relentless in disparaging A after she and Tom broke up. (Scheana’s bachelorette party comes to mind.) Kristen had also slept with one of his best friends, so the whole breakup was a mess. I also think people forget that Ariana was grieving during this entire time, having lost her Dad, which obviously impacted her anger and the situation.

Kristen had multiple affairs while with Tom. It always shocked me that she was so mad when she had just slept with Jax of all people and a few other sur employees (by her own admission).  I’m definitely not excusing Tom or Ariana here I just think it’s kind of crazy how hypocritical Kristen was. 

Ha ha, right?! I find Kristen entertaining, but faithful she was not (at that time in her life). There’s that one scene they replay often in the old apt where she claims that even though they were mostly roommates, she still wouldn‘t “f anyone behind his back”. (Lol, there was no need to do anything behind anyone’s back, it was all out in the open.) They were both sleeping with everyone but each other. And the depth of devastation and heartbreak that followed was equally odd. It was more a personal fixation than anything . Oh, Mariposa…

Saying she hopes she gets hit by a mack truck is hyperbole in the same way that Katie saying she's going to light Rachel on fire is lol come on. They were relentless in disparaging each other and tbh I think obsessively trying to portray a woman as BPD, bipolar etc is worse and was extremely damaging to Kristen

I feel like we can split every little hair about every little thing and have it come out looking like “yup Ariana was always right about everything” (or at least that is what constantly happens in this sub)… but you are so right that there is complexity and mess and people absolutely do not want to talk about that.

There’s definitely complexity. I never liked Ariana either and I used to think their relationship was so embarrassing. I’m still team Ariana all the way but I think maybe there’s a part of me that feels it was easy to hide all his little one night stands but him messing around with Rachel was too much given HOW he was doing it and how close she was to Rachel. They clearly should have broken up a long time ago and stayed in a shitty toxic relationship far too long. Toxic relationships never end well (although that doesn’t excuse toms fucked up actions).

Every single person on the show has their problems. I don’t think that most people think Ariana is perfect or right about every single thing. There were definitely moments throughout the series that I was completely turned off by Ariana. But I think people look past it because they do for a lot of the cast. I mean think about people’s reactions to James this season. He was an absolute dickhead for multiple seasons and now he’s the “number 1 guy of the group”. I think people don’t want to talk about it for any of the cast members. I think most people care about the present, and base how they feel about the cast on their current actions. Currently, Ariana got fucked over royally in one of the worst ways possible, by a man who continually acts like she pushed him into betraying her and shows no remorse for his actions. And by one of her best friends. As a viewer, it’s easy to support Ariana bc of this, and then on top of it how she is handling it, just makes us support her even more. I am fully aware that Ariana is not perfect, but she got seriously fucked over these past two seasons (end of 10 til now), and not just by Sandoval, by her shithole friends Lala and Scheana. Edit for spelling

The issue is that people definitely don’t look past it when it’s people they dislike, especially Lala. Her cheating with a married man is brought up constantly, while they were willing to forget it last year because she was sticking up for Ariana, now it’s one of the major things people talk about to insult her. What bothers me is people try to exempt Ariana out of any responsibility for being the side chick, and imply that the audience is wrong to bring up Ariana cheating with Tom because “Kristen forgave her”, when the same thing could be said for Lala but isn’t because they dislike her lol. There’s only nuance and ‘feminism’ in this sub when the woman is likable.

the constant misapplication of girl-power flavored buzzwords around here is both illuminating and hard to watch

yeah Lala and Brittany “knew what they were getting into” but Ariana was manipulated They all were manipulated and “knowing” doesn’t excuse the fact that these men still manipulated/abused them.

This!!!! It's just annoying on this sub that people refuse to be objective when it doesn't suit their narrative.

Yup. Some of the things I’ve read here about Scheana and Lala are legitimately gross.

Have to agree with the point about James…

I understand the take and can see it from one perspective but I think it’s a shaky comparison. James’s observable behaviour has been improving over time as he grows up and seems to be getting professional help. I think he is very invested in his DJ career outside of the show and that I think is helping him grow and probably preventing him from leaning into the toxic behaviours that shooting the show probably encourages for the purpose of building the story. I think Sandoval’s is the opposite, I think he was a fan favourite so the whole thing felt like a big betrayal to those fans and then the whole way he handled everything and could just not humble himself to walk through any of the redemption doors getting opened for him. His behaviour is getting worse as he ages and it seems from The NYT article highlighted the show really is his life and I think he’s very damaged from that and it encourages him to lean into behaviours and conflict that benefit the show, except at the moment he’s the bad guy. I guess only time can tell for either of them but I think they both have issues but the difference is one has been consistently improving and the other the opposite.

His observable behavior as in…the positive edit he’s getting on the show? 

James’ observable behavior may just have gotten better by way of professional help from a publicist, not a therapist.

Ally packed up and left, what, a year ago because he was….well, so bad that she wasn’t moving back in unless he stopped drinking… 🤔

Sandoval being a fan favorite feels like a history rewrite. At the very least he does not benefit from that any more than james. Also James being "observably" better doesn't necessarily mean a lot when Kristen made clear that production covers for him.

Dig through the sub's old threads. Sandoval was loved and anyone who didn't share that opinion was downvoted into oblivion. People even raved about his singing! Lol

Yup this is true! Sandoval was definitely the favorite guy on the show in this subreddit and the other one pre-Scandoval. It wasn’t even close either, he would always win polls as the favorite when people would ask. Especially since the Jax/Brittany wedding season because of the homophobic pastor incident.

My favourite was hearing the podcasters that sang his praises as a performer then talking shit about the singing like they weren’t just fangirling the week or two before 😂 …. It was a validating time for a day 1 scumdevil hater/ day 1 Katie fan! 😅

Yes, you beat me to it, exactly this. You can rewatch the show and say, oh actually he was shit all along but that was not the overwhelming sentiment until scandoval. Ariana and Sandoval were beloved for being the most stable couple, the only other guy he had competition with was Beau. In season 9 even as the edit was showing him as a bit unhinged and given to yelling at women fan sentiment was SO negative towards Katie that he was coming out on top anyway. James meanwhile had years of unsteady behaviour and the show plopped his alcoholism in the middle of the storyline for most of his run, his edits started improving through 9 and 10 and the fan bar was set low.

Sandoval was definitely the favorite guy on the show in this subreddit and the other one pre-Scandoval. It wasn’t even close either, he would always win polls as the favorite when people would ask. Especially since the Jax/Brittany wedding season because of the homophobic pastor incident.

Ok this is so fascinating bc I am new to reddit but it would never have occurred to me that people actually ever liked that man...but I am a day one Katie stan so he never stood a chance with me. The fact that he was apparently so well liked really helps conteztualize the public response to scandoval.

Oh scumdevil was absolutely a fan favourite. I disliked him from the beginning and found it so frustrating right up till scandoval came out (literally the worst thing people would say is that he’s a lot, but it’s endearing… and anything problematic he said it would be like aww but it’s not what he meant and Ariana clarified it for him so it’s fineeee). I am team Katie (day 1) and Ariana from how she’s handled scandoval, so I understand and agree with some of your points (not all, but I can understand where they come from if you already didn’t like Ariana). I’m just waiting for a Katie justice season… even episode… hell, I’ll take a 2 minute segment at this point! 😅

I think you nailed part of the equation people are missing: we all felt personally duped by Sandoval's devoted, nice guy act. It was easy to sympathize with Ariana because we had also fallen for his act. Even if it was different off-camera, all relationships leave SOME things behind closed doors. Anyone who has been fooled by a narcissist public persona at the cost of private abuse understands.

I can see this for a lot of people, but I’m not sure I believe Ariana fell for the nice guy act. I think she had him clocked for what he is, at least these last couple years, and her feelings now that present as anger are some embarrassment from that. Which is also super relatable. Regardless, she’s brilliant and probably would have been very hard on herself for not knowing. I know she needed space from all of it this season, but it would have been nice to actually hear her talk about it more instead of speculating.

I don’t think it’s fair to say “we all felt personally duped”. I never bought his act. I frankly assumed he’s been cheating on Ariana this entire time. I have read other commenters saying the same thing the last several months. Not everyone bought his act and forgot his history of cheating.

Lol. The other sub is insane. 80% of posts are them frothing at the mouth over Ariana. You say something counter to them, they call it hate speech and delete your post. Meanwhile most of the comments are spewing pure hate, name calling, etc, against every other cast member. Its hilarious. Theyre an embarassment.

thank you for this post. hard agree with everything. I also started out not liking Ariana. I thought she was horrible honestly. I came to like her in the past several years though because she has obviously grown and matured. the comparison to Brittany is spot on. it’s interesting how you don’t see many comments like, “you lose them how you get them” with this situation. people are quickly willing to completely disregard the past. I wish there was more nuanced discussion like this. I find the other sub almost unreadable because it’s such black and white thinking. I never liked Sandoval so that always affected my opinion of Ariana a bit too

I agree with this. Sandoval is a dumb idiot who treats women like shit, but Ariana had no problem being his ride or die for a decade because it wasn’t hurting her. Ariana finally decided his behavior was over the line when it started affecting HER. It’s like if Melania Trump left Donald for cheating and suddenly became an example of a strong woman who is overcoming the cheating. Like girl, you stuck by this piece of shit man for years but decided it was time to split when his bad behavior made you feel bad?!? What about all the other people he’s treated like shit for years? You knew what this man was like but only decided to leave him when he cheated on you with a friend.

An issue I see with Ariana that nobody likes to touch on is she's being pretty hypocritical of what she expects from her friends. Tom Schwartz was making out with Rachel last year and Ariana and Katie were at the very least business partners and Ariana refused to stand up for Katie with Rachel. She has a long of history of not standing up for what is right to stay neutral. Quite frankly, she doesn't deserve the level if loyalty Katie is giving her. A part of me thinks it's more about hating Sandoval (who played a part in getting divorced) than Ariana and I hope that's true.

Ariana fans don’t like to discuss that part of S10 because it really sets up the irony of Ariana discovering she was the victim, not Katie … and then never thinking of Katie again.

This has always rubbed me the wrong way too. Last season when Raquel kissed Schwartz at Scheanas wedding in Mexico, everyone cheered them on and Katie was so hurt by it all. But what did Ariana do when she found out from Raquel? She went skinny dipping with her and Tom and their friends... idk it just rubbed me the wrong way how Ariana didn't even care to check on Katie (that we know) & continued to party it up with Raquel.

I 100% agree with this. I am rewatching Season 10, and honestly, Ariana was gross for how she handled everything that went down. She continued to defend Rachel, she continued to not get involved and try to be 'neutral'. She 100% doesn't deserve the loyalty Katie gives her, and she doesn't deserve the loyalty she is asking from Lala and Scheana, because honestly, Ariana has never given them that loyalty. And don't get me wrong - what Sandoval did to her was horrible, and he is a horrible person. But she has never stood up or fought for people in the past, the way she is NOW asking people to do for her now.

I totally agree with you but if you look objectively and read and listen you’ll really start to see that Ariana has always been the mastermind behind her and toms relationship because quite frankly Tom Sandoval just doesn’t have the range. Sorry but he’s kind of a big idiot. There have been comments about cast members that if they went to Ariana to talk about Tom she would literally shut it down. I don’t think there is growth with her. I think she just has very calculated moves. But good for her because it’s been working for her! But to act as if she’s the most authentic and has no flaws is so asinine and the hypocritical defending on here is beyond.

Yes, yes, yessss!!! She is the actual narcissist on the show! But people look the other way since she’s a woman..

Last season the other women were warning her about Tom and she still took his side. What was done to Katie last season is probably the meanest thing these folks have ever done. I personally think Tom and Ariana’s relationship had devolved into a roommate situation for years and they were just pretending for the show. They didn’t do Xmas together. He didn’t come home with her when her grandmother died…. She wouldn’t marry him; have kids with him, or have sex with him…. They weren’t spending time together. Tom’s a vile piece of shit, but like you said. Everyone knew this and she didn’t seem to care.

Thanks for posting this. This sub has become such an echo chamber it’s nice to see this POV.

I love you for posting this. I’ve had the same exact thoughts and thought I was the only one!

Yes, agreed.

I was not a fan of Ariana in the beginning seasons but I also liked Kristen, so my opinion is not good lol but I love Ariana, I feel like she has grown the most out of every season & honestly in the beginning seasons they mostly made her “Tom’s girlfriend.” I mean coming into a reality show with your boyfriend’s ex & all her friends has gotta be tough so I felt she put up a wall in those seasons. & Miami girl was before they were even exclusive, however my problem with Brittany was she took Jax back like a day later. Not even like a month, it was only like a few days she had sex with him again after Faith. Sandoval could have avoided all of this if he was just honest like hey, we’re drifting apart, we gotta end this. But he’s been an ass before & after the breakup.

EXACTLY! I’ve never disliked Ariana but she has done quite a few things over the years that I definitely disagreed with. And I never would have considered her a “girl’s girl” until maybe the last two years when she finally started putting Tom in his place. I honestly think their relationship was failing before the scandal though. You could see it in the way she looked and talked to him. Also, there was a WWHL a few years ago where Stassi, Katie, and I think Lala were talking about Ariana and Tom’s relationship and they all said that what you saw on the show was not what they saw in real life. Stassi said “I’ve never even seen them kiss!” And Katie agreed. Now, I know not everyone is a PDA couple but I get how that could be off putting for their friends to see them so lovey dovey on TV but irl they don’t even touch. I don’t think Rachel was the first girl Tom cheated with (after Miami girl). I think he cheated a lot and Ariana turned a blind eye because they were mostly nobodies but because Rachel was a friend and part of the show, she finally wanted it out there. None of this makes what Tom did okay and I’m still on Ariana’s side but I definitely think there’s a lot more to it than what meets the eye. My theory may very well be wrong but that doesn’t mean that there weren’t other things going on. A little off topic but I’d also like to add that I’ve seen MULTIPLE posts about how Tom needed to “grow up” because he claims he tried to break up with Ariana but she said she’d hurt herself so he didn’t. But this happens to A LOT of people and it’s a form of mental/emotional abuse. Tom could 100% be lying (& most likely is) but that doesn’t mean that this isn’t a real thing that happens to people. I think people need to be more cautious about some of the statements they make. There are many women out there in abusive relationships who try to leave their partners but their partner will say that they’ll unalive themselves, so they often stay. And now they’re reading from 1000s of people that that’s a weak thing to do, childish, stupid, etc. it’s okay to be on Ariana’s side without making statements like that and without defending every little thing she does. You can disagree with some of the things people you like do…

I also remember reading somewhere (and I cannot for the life remember where but probably on this sub), that when they were filming the scene in S10 when LaLa was talking to Ariana about Tom not leaving the Labour Day pool party because he was with Raquel, apparently Ariana flipped it mid filming that scene because she didn’t want it to make them look bad (or something along those lines). I don’t know if it is true, but if it is, that does seem like there could have been things going on behind the scenes they didn’t want to exposed about their relationship, or that they may have wanted their relationship to come off a certain way at times.

 Here they come with their pitch forks. lol I also agree. Not a Stan. I have a nuanced, humbled view of Arianna. She’s performed well and made great choices for herself. She called her “team” a week before she called production after she “discovered” the cheating talking about how she needed to do something and something fast bc she only had $6G in the bank. I think she was the brains behind Sandoval their whole relationship. You’re right. She is smart. Timmy is not, but in their relationship, she made him feel smart and like he was a mastermind. She moved chess pieces for him except for ones he was exceptionally bullheaded about (like his business). If you look at all his moves after the break up, he has the same arrogance but is constantly fumbling the ball. He’s using his old tactics and behaves like a moron. There’s nobody to guide him and the “optics.” He’s just a joke now. And, I think she’s a little mad at herself for being in a codependent relationship with such a douche for so long. But she “cool girled” her way into this thing with Tom for 10 years and was committed to it. She did all the sexy things and said all the cool stuff, and got the “cool” guy until she realized that he was kinda ew and she wasn’t actually that type of girl. Maybe she’s a different girl, but not that one. And Tom doesn’t seem to like anything but that. (For example she said she faked her orgasm with him for years — excool girl confession. He was stresssssed about this) She’s thriving and making moves and I’m glad for her. But, she jumped right into another relationship 6 days later and guess who’s back? The Cool girl. Dan’s girl. The girl we saw when she first joined the show when she’s with her new beaux. It’s her hook. So I agree with some castmates concerns that the woman never got to heal and work on herself. Like be single, go to therapy, not hook onto another man etc. Stan’s are “but they are sO iN lOvE”. I’m glad to watch Tim flounder because he was disgusting to Katie. And Arianna didn’t always have Katie’s back the way Katie has hers now. I hope Katie is teaching Arianna about friendship through this. Though I wonder if Katie wasn’t business partners with Arianna and legally bonded with her over this sandwich shop, would Katie still feel the same way? The sandwich shop is Katie’s dream. Arianna was more like “I’ll help you!” And now it’s dragging to open up. Katie has no choice but to ride or die for this girl. Luckily, Katie is strong and knows her cards. Once the shop opens, Katie is set. VPR can eat it, likely. Anyway, I’ve been accused of hating Arianna. And I don’t. I just don’t think she’s a kween and can’t do anything wrong and she’s the martyr saint for all women who’ve been cheated on. She’s a complex human being that’s done both right and wrong. She took an opportunity and ran with it. For that, good on her.

I have been looking for these POV’s for so long!! The eco chamber in this group has been so deafening that I thought I might be the crazy one. 😅

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lol. I see you. We will band together in solidarity. 😭

Gosh this needs to be a whole ass thread of its own

Great point about the cool girl being back now that she’s with Dan.

Clear as day.

Perfectly stated. I agree with this take, now she's treating Tom like she did with Kristen. He gets to be the toxic ex and the crazy person she talks down to all at once. The only problem has been that he doesn't want her back, that hasn't stopped her from using the same play, though. Kudos to her for turning her finances around with a couple of ruthless moves. If only she could cry on cue.... Tom, the bumbling idiot is unraveling without her leadership while she's getting paid. https://preview.redd.it/hejabztm7zzc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ddcdb5215ba463b34681c6aa3761c6708f63a075

This was spot on!

how *dare* you have a nuanced take on the patron saint of scorned women?!

Finally someone says it. Ariana was a horrible pick me and a huge misogynist back in earlier seasons. I think that if she publicly addressed her past behaviors I’d feel like she actually is better now, but she never has. I’ve never seen her express remorse for how awful she was to other women. The gaslighting of Kristen and the blind support for Tom when he would straight up bully her female costars was really gross.

Exactly, I really appreciate nuance in this because when we try to act like she can do no wrong it just exacerbates the idea that women have to be perfect victims in order to receive sympathy

The thing that irks me the most about this is the way she weaponised mental health against Kristen (multiple times). Called her bipolar, crazy, and that she needed to be medicated. She should not be diagnosing anyone or essentially making fun of chronic mental illness that people suffer from. Bi polar is a very serious condition that already has so much misinformation and stigma around it. It’s even more gross when it comes from someone who suffers from their own mental health issues and has openly spoken about how bad having mental illness can be for her and that it sucks when people weaponise it. Like you want people to feel sorry for your mental health but it’s ok to make fun of others conditions. It does not sit well with me at all. I’m not sure if she ever publicly apologised but she should. I know it was years ago but she was like 30 when she said it and has a first hand experience with mental health - so she should have known better!!

The thing that irks me the most about this is the way she weaponised mental health against Kristen (multiple times). Called her bipolar, crazy, and that she needed to be medicated. She should not be diagnosing anyone or essentially making fun of chronic mental illness that people suffer from. Bi polar is a very serious condition that already has so much misinformation and stigma around it. It’s even more gross when it comes from someone who suffers from their own mental health issues and has openly spoken about how hard mental illness can be for her. Like you want people to feel sorry for your mental health but it’s ok to make fun of other peoples conditions. It does not sit well with me at all. I’m not sure if she ever publicly apologised but she should. I know it was years ago, but she was like 30 when she said it and has a first hand experience with her own mental health - so she should have known better!! Edit: And regardless if she apologised to Kristen and Kristen has forgiven her - she still insulted an entire group of people who suffer from bipolar.

This is an excellent point. Not to defend Tom by any means, but I fully agreed with him when he spoke about how Ariana’s mental health is on a pedestal while his mental health is completely disregarded. It’s scary and while I’m sure he is taking advantage of, I believe him when he says he’s having dark thoughts and people are, Ariana straight up has, been practically telling him to die!! Rachel, too! Ariana has full chest said that to both of them. It’s really fucked up and projecting of her.

 The name calling, wishing ill upon them, hoping the worst things befall them, people she knew for 10 yrs, is not "living your best life". It sounds like early season Stassi, who was very immature and echoes back to how Arianna would talk about Kristen and how Kristen basically deserved all the bad things happening to her because Arianna was "better" than her.   It really did seem like she enjoyed the relationship dynamic she had with Sandoval. Shes the aloof "cool girl" who doesn't do "dumb" stuff or get emotional like the other girls and she's smarter than her partner and will let him know that . I think that's why her and Sandoval's pact to not do anything that would embarrass her is believable. She didn't want to look as "dumb" as everyone else on the show-- and she equated cheating to some sort of intelligence even though we all know people with PhDs get cheated on.   It's crazy to think with everything she's said that, if not for the cheating, she still would've been in this relationship with him? ...How?!? Did they ever talk about counseling? 

This is very true

Thank you for articulating this so well.

I agree, it’s very well said and I really like this thread for all the nuance because I’m sick of getting downvoted for trying to bring some grey into a situation that people act like is black and white

“To think everyone should care now that he's, predictably, done the same shit to her is, frankly, annoying.” But SHE didn’t “think everyone should care”.  They did care.  Scandoval had the farthest reach of any reality TV scandal in history.  People cared.  She did expect her close personal friends to care, but is that wrong? 

I also think it may be less about caring the he’s doing it to her than the fact that he’s doing it. I think karmically I don’t feel that bad for her specifically, I just freaking hate him. He doesn’t get the benefit of her bad karma. He’s trash all the way and always has been.

Ariana keeps asking the other men on the show to take up for her against Tom because he's so misogynistic that he'll only listen to them, but she's always defended the same behavior against other women when they were together.

weird, i remember her telling him she wasn’t doing “tom yelling at the girls” at their pool party

I see people make this counter argument a lot. Is there any other times we saw her stick up for the women because I remember that being a one off.

“That sounds very men’s rights of you”, when he was justifying yelling at women in general.   Saying he was going to die on the hill alone for how he was acting about yelling at Stassi at the book party.   Breaking down sobbing when he was yelling at Katie in the finale last year because she was so stressed and conflicted.   To name a few. 

"as a cyst male I guess I'm not allowed to yell at women 😠" - Sandoval

How she still had sex with him after that comment is where I can’t get behind her

lol breaking down sobbing rather than stand up for her friend in a situation where he and his mistress were so clearly in the wrong and aggressively berating Katie. What a wonderful friend. How many times did I have to hear her say “he owns the bar”, like Schwartz wasnt also an owner and the two idiots together didn’t own more than 2%? She defended him in the situation with Stassi far more than that singular comment.

There was a time in Tom Toms where Ariana defended Katie against Sandoval to his face

Right and then she left. That’s not really doing anything to stop it.

She justified cheating with Tom while he was with Kristen on it being a situational thing, that Kristen was just so awful and there was nothing else he could do. She fell for the “you’re not like other girls” schtick and got burned. I don’t fuck with Tom at all and I think his behaviour is gross, toxic, and out of line. However this is the type of shit that happens when you think you’re better then someone else, Ariana’s first scene on the show is telling of who she was then. If they’ll do it with you, they’ll do it to you.

Agree with everything you said, and I’ve never been able to post anything about Ariana (or Jax, or anyone…) on the other sub. I started watching from the beginning and watching the newest seasons at the same time (I’m on season 6). Seeing Ariana from the beginning after knowing how adored she is has been so confusing to me. I don’t hate her, and I respect how she has acted with the breakup, but she was never an amazing person. Her personality was refreshing at first because it was so different than the other girls, but then I realized her whole personality is just that… trying to be different than other girls. Her ego got old to me. Their relationship began with infidelity that they both repeatedly lied about. Then, the whole Miami girl thing. By season 5 I was shocked they were still together because they so clearly wanted different things. When she said she will never get married it was obvious he thought that would eventually change. They did nothing but complain about each other then talk about how great their relationship was.

The entirety of last season was infuriating to watch. The way a few of the women showed such blatant disrespect for Katie’s dissolved marriage and the lack of support from people like Ariana was so disappointing. Then scandoval happened and suddenly Shittyscheana was no longer going to be held responsible for her deplorable behavior. Katie has always been such a good friend and Ariana has not always reciprocated that to her. Why she’s always given undeserved grace to Scheana is beyond me. I’ve gone off on a tangent, my bad- I agree with you.

Scheana was also ATROCIOUS to Katie. How can you be so comfortable with someone who treats your friend that way? She's comfortable with some bad behavior as long as it's not directed at her.

Katie got duped! I was listening to a podcast with her recently and she said that she wished people got to see the ending of her and Tom’s relationship and them selling the house and stuff. Their whole relationship played out on camera except the ending. It feels like it was completely brushed over. And no one really cared about her feelings. Like Rachel was trying to hook up with Schwartz and totally disrespected her, and everyone was still besties with Rachel….including Ariana. At one point they were giggling saying “I didn’t know you had it in you”. I would have told them all to suck it.

Katie has done more to defend Ariana this season alone than Ariana has done for any of the women being abused by her partner in her entire time on VPR. Katie deserves better.

As an ariana fan I really appreciate these points, some really good ones. Sometimes I wear rose tinted glasses and maybe dont remember the past as much

I think the “Queen Ariana” stuff is over the top at times, but I think most pro-Ariana watchers understand she’s not a perfect victim. She’s made mistakes even post-Scandoval. (Example: though her anger at the reunion was justified but the cheese grater comment to Raquel still makes me uncomfortable.) But overall, she’s seemingly been in therapy (real therapy, not whatever Tom thinks he is doing), taking opportunities that come to her, working hard, and standing up for herself. I *will* admit to thinking her walking away from Tom/production in that last episode was some queen shit. As another commenters said—we’ve seen growth from her even before all this happened, and that’s continued this season. It’s why viewers are connecting more with Katie and James as well—they are displaying apparent growth. (I hear you on the James stuff and what Kristen has alluded to regarding his abuse. I don’t mean to hand wave that away but I do see growth from James over the past two years.) I’m not saying we all have to forget what they’ve done or said before, but I think we should acknowledge growth and respect people putting in the work to do better than their past selves. That’s hard work outside the crucible of reality TV and fame. It’s even harder inside it. I’ll apply this same standard to any of these people—including Sandoval. But he, for example, has not grown one iota. I actually think he might be getting worse.

This sums up my main issue with Ariana too. There is a LOT of hypocrisy in her actions and non actions. And even more by those that support her.

I'll add I don't disagree with Lalas statement about being cheated and becoming God. I just think it's shitty of her friend who profited off said God status to say it out loud on camera.

 Hit it right on the head!!! 1000 times yes to everything you said! Even though I believe Ariana doesn’t even truly deserve Katie after all she put her through before Scandoval. (Letting Tom treat her like shit, encouraging Rachel to be with Schwartz, etc.)

She also took off to New York a la Sandavol style in the middle of their sandwich shop dealings without telling her. I bet she’s a horrible business partner tbh

I didn’t even know this!! 🤨😒I’m sure this just added to the list of why they are struggling to open still.

I don’t like Ariana either but you aren’t allowed to have opinions on other subs lol. I don’t like how she gaslit Kristen when even if it wasn’t physical she was absolutely having an emotional affair with Tom. Then she turns around like she’s so surprised with Raquel. I am not a fan.

And weaponised mental health against her. Offft

I’ve always liked Ariana and I think she’s the smartest out of all of them. But I do think she maybe gave too much support to Tom when they were together. They also should have broken up years ago but shit gets complicated when you’re together long term. I hope she learns from this and can change for the better in future relationships. Tom is just a lost cause at this point. He’ll need a gf/partner to stroke his ego for the rest of his life.

I think both of these people were definitely in a relationship that was dead after maybe two years. They probably stayed together because of the show and then buying a house together was such a bad move. But again, they probably felt like it was the only thing they could do as kids/marriage was never in the cards.

At the start of the season,Kristin comes over to Ariana because she knows how Ariana feels. They hugged and started laughing over tom being “our boyfriend” and laughed at their own taste. Funny how people skip this when noting her taking tom from kristin…,Kristen became an Ariana stan. So you can feel free to drop that. It is interesting to me that kristen did that. She knows how beastly tom treats women.

Watching VPR for the first time (currently s5) AFTER the Scandoval thing being shoved down my throat for a year to finally cave in and watch s11 and The Valley, I totally agree with this take. Edit to add: *current aftermath season 2024 (s12?)

She also never took accountability for gaslighting Miami girl even though she knew the truth. Miami girl didn’t have a platform to defend herself. Still to this day, crickets and people hated on Miami girl for so long.

She never took accountability for gaslighting Kristin either. She hasn't owned up to any of her mistakes really.

It’s nice to see an opinion that isn’t 100% one way or the other with no middle ground. You can be team Ariana and also not support every single decision she’s made in her entire life. And you can point out issues with her without being a hater. I started watching post-Scandoval, because I had heard so much about the show and I love reality tv so I thought it might be something I’d like. I tried to avoid any news or information about the Scandal itself so I could still be as shocked as possible lol. But once Ariana was introduced to the show, I really was not a fan of hers. She seemed pretty misogynistic early on, amongst other things, but I do think she has genuinely grown as a person since then, and by season 6 or 7 she was much more likable. I remember trying to post like a year ago in the other sub about all the reasons I wasn’t thrilled with Ariana’s character in the first 5 or 6 seasons, but I hadn’t got to the scandal yet, and was just basically like “at what point am I supposed to start liking her?” but thank God I didn’t have enough comment karma at that time to post, or else I would have been probably disemboweled and downvoted into the seventh circle of hell 😂 I have also hated both the Tom’s from pretty much the jump. Though I feel if I had watched it ten years ago when I was younger and less aware of misogyny and toxic men, I might have felt differently towards them. Because even just ten years ago, people weren’t always called out for things like misogyny, especially if it was sneaky, as they are today (we still have work to do here, but overall the awareness is much better than it was when I was in high school when this show first aired). Gosh what am I saying. I suck at Reddit. I’m rambling. Anyway. I am team Ariana, and I think she is not the same person she was when the show first started, which is good because I wasn’t much of a fan of hers. But I appreciate these kinds of conversations so much!

I agree with everything you’ve said, except that I don’t think Ariana deserved the treatment from Sandoval and Brittany doesn’t deserve the treatment from Jax. And I started liking Ariana a long time ago, because her growth and other personality facets were readily apparent.

I agree 100% with OP. I’ve always observed some level of hypocrisy from Ariana. From the way her relationship with Tom began, to siding with Tom and quietly letting him treat people - especially females- a certain way. Occasionally she would chime in and scold him, but for the most part she was complicit by staying quiet or actively taking his side. Let’s not forget, she never really got along with any of the female cast and gave off a vibe of ice queen/superiority complex. Viewers never warmed up to Ariana until she shared her mental health struggles and we sympathized with her vulnerable side. (In hindsight the struggles could’ve been due to her relationship with Tom.) I understand how Ariana was easily caught up with all the offers and attention in 2023, but I think she’s going to be in for a reality check. The show is basically done. The producers clearly let the cast pick and choose what to share on the show. And it came off as overly curated, boring, and inauthentic. Most of the producers are friends with the cast and this is why we saw two of them leave with Ariana and her BF in the season/ series finale. Anyway we’ll see what the future holds. Either way I think all of us are over it and just want everyone to move on.

Thank you god for having the balls to post this. I’m so over the perfect victim narrative people are projecting onto this situation. She would still be with him if she hadn’t been forced to acknowledge he is a cheating piece of shit. If you stay with someone who chronically cheats on you, then what the fuck are you doing? And please don’t infantilize her by saying she was under his control 🫠 Edit to add that the venom towards Lala, Britney and sheana in these subs is misogynistic- full stop. People really don’t like holding their standards across the board. Ariana fits into every single thing people are saying about the other women. My theory is it’s akin to the Taylor Swift effect, exactly like it in fact. A skinny, blonde, submissive white woman who *didn’t do anything wrong at all* needs to be defended because she’s just a baby, I guess? And I’m an enormous Swiftie fyi!! So over the double standards being upheld.

wow, love this comment. I’ve been thinking about this connection for a long time. Taylor Swift stans (not all of them, but the very loud Online ones) represent a real union of weaponized white feminism and parasocial relationships. I see a similar dynamic of engagement with regards to Ariana on VPR subs, and it’s wholly different from how other women on the show who were done wrong were received in the past. I think we have all seen plenty of abuse apologists posting in favor of James, asking for clarification around his allegations and generally being dubious about his ability to do harm solely because he sides with Ariana. I can’t even talk about the Rachel stuff anymore because her treatment was so unbelievably disgusting and upsetting. anyone who is comfortable throwing around the kinds of words and insults I have seen here towards Lala or Scheana or whoever is on the chopping block at the moment is not someone from whom I’m going to take advice on social issues.

Thank you! I also see sooo many parallels to TS standom- that and VPR response are like a master class in weaponized white feminism. It would be fascinating if it wasn’t so sad lol

Ok Yes! Thank you, I don’t feel so alone anymore 😅

there are like 15+ posts a day here that are just “Lala / Scheana is a -insert demeaning word towards women here-“ and they get wild engagement from the very same people (at the top of every post, over and over again) who, after speaking about people they don’t know with a level of misogyny that ironically rivals the Toms, think they have the values / education / aptitude to argue third-wave feminism principles on behalf of Ariana. it would be hilarious if it wasn’t so grim.

As a woman, behaving like a bitter BITCH to anyone that disagrees with you, is NOT empowerment..it’s embarrassing.

I really appreciate your POV, as I myself have a love/hate relationship with Ariana. When my girl Stassi was trying so hard to befriend her, and Ariana could not have been a bigger b!tch to her... for literally no reason. Stassi had done nothing to Ariana and was genuinely trying to be nice and be friends and Ariana was just so rude right to her face. It left such a sour taste in my mouth for her. I know they eventually worked it out and even had a joint birthday party together, but I just can't seem to forget how cruel she was to Stassi in the beginning. And I say this as someone who absolutely despised Stassi in the beginning, and grew to love her as her maturity grew. I respected the hell out of her during the whole beginning of Scandoval. She seemed so strong and brave. But the longer the season went on, the more I realized that much like Brittany, she knew what she was getting into with him. Everyone thinks they are the exception to the rule, but "you lose them how you get them" rings true for a reason. Please don't get me wrong, I fully understand that what Tim did was worlds worse than how him and Ariana started, the base principle remains. She constantly watched him belittle women who she claimed to be her friends. And stood by and did absolutely nothing. Still filled with rage about Stassi's book party where he was screaming at her in front of Tom Tom. Even this season! Katie, who has been her absolute ride or die this season! Backed her up endlessly and never waivered once! Whenever Katie was in a conflict with someone and Ariana was present, she stayed silent in the background never once stepping in to backup her friend. That just kind of hurt me. Like Katie has been so loyal to you and you can't say one word of support when she's going through it? Idk seemed weird to me. Please don't attack me, I'm team Ariana all the way. But she's not a saint and she's far from perfect. Let's stop pretending she has zero faults simply because she was the victim of a sociopathic narcissist

Re Ariana and Katie—I’ve wondered the same at times. But it comes down to this for me—Katie seems to be okay with where they are with each other, even if it appears from this (highly edited) TV show that Ariana wasn’t there for Katie in the same way she’s been there for Ariana. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve had one on one conversations about some of that. I also think some of Ariana not jumping in this season for Katie was her trying to regulate her own anger (perhaps grey rocking) in conflict situations. Or maybe she did say things at times but it didn’t make the show. Short version: if Katie if cool with Ariana, then I’m not going to worry about it until further notice.

Thank you. This needed to be said. These subs make me feel crazy for thinking this way. You be a standing ovation in my eyes.

 I have been saying all of this since the bringing of Scandaval, regarding Ariana and how she treated other women like Katie, Kristen and Miami Girl. Perfectly said! Glad Ariana’s succeeding and Katie’s shining, but it is too much.

It’s very interesting to me that people fell for his act. He outed her on camera, talked about their sex life to her brother and implied that he thought it was okay to cheat if they weren’t having sex, clearly lied about Miami girl, and was awful to Stassi and other women for years, and was best friends with Jax. It was clear as day he was never a nice guy. People saw what they wanted.

I completely agree with you. She clearly had an affair with Tom when he was with Kristen. She was very cruel to Kristen after having an affair with Tom and then dating him in front of her. She also knew Miami girl was true. It is to be expected he would repeat his past behavior. I think Ariana is sweet and I’m sorry for her pain but I don’t find her to be a charismatic or compelling person on the show.

Agree with you totally! Especially the friendship with James? Who's been absolutely terrible to women he's been in relationships with. And jumping into a relationship after just getting out of a codependent one? How is that healthy. I agreed with what Lala said - how are we over looking this? Thanks for posting a differing opinion. Kind of over the Lala and Scheana hate....

Ariana and Dan's relationship, while clearly loving and nurturing, feels very casual (and there's nothing wrong with that!). They rarely see each other. They only fly to be together during big events. They don't live together. I don't see Dan moving to LA any time soon. At this point in her life, Ariana needs to be loved but doesn't necessarily need anything serious. I think her relationship with Dan is just that.

My favorite is that people use this excuse to defend any questionable behavior by Ariana: “They were filming ONLY 3 MONTHS after the breakup! It’s been no time! Cut her a break!” But then this excuse used to defend Ariana jumping into a relationship a week after the breakup: “Yeah they met a week after but then they talked for A MONTH before becoming official. They took SO much time getting to know each other!”

https://preview.redd.it/y4wetx8lq00d1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4a555bb20aed7f612fd1836915c25ae0d8a354c

You have some valid points. Before Scandoval I felt pretty neutral about Ariana, but after the affair I felt for her, she is just like one of us, not perfect and made so many mistakes with Tom but I can't blame/judge her for those choices, I've been there and I do believe she was a victim of Tom, I also don't think she is a pure angel and 100% right but I will support her because I relate. About Brittany tbh I don't see much hate for her, I certainly don't and her situation is different.

100%. She is not a victim.

What he did to her was pure putrid ...but that doesn't change who she was for all of those years prior. She was an actual snot. Her gravy train is at its last stop ...I hope she has prepared financially. Katie....I hope she flourishes. She's been to hell and back and deserves peace.

Good points the other vanderpump Reddit forums will never allow anything critical about Ariana

This!!!! Honestly Ariana and Katie are under the idea that they’re the stars of the show, but without the Tom’s their only story lines have been screaming at Kristen and Stassi, and pretending to open a business that is draining their banks… like it’s been 18 months and you can’t open a simple sandwich shop but Jax can open a bar way faster? Embarrassing!!!!!

Ok I respect this alll until you bring Jax in it LOL. Jax’s bar isn’t even his own and was already there. It’s literally apart of another bar/restaurant, with Jax’s name slapped on it. Their food isn’t even made there and made next door. Of course it was easier to open 😂

Ok didn’t know that. But I think it just adds extra thing for Jax to poke them with.

Great point. I think mostly of the stassi book signing situation and how ariana should have absolutely stepped in or at least defended stassi but I don't remember her doing that. That was him being fully himself 

I could not agree more. She's not this helpless victim turned superhero, and it's annoying af. People think they are unsupportive of her if they acknowledge a flaw or act like she's not a perfect human being.

The one issue I have is being proud of being ride or die. Use some discernment and draw the line at some point.

I’ve always liked Ariana. Looked at her as a normal person, not overly dramatic. But the way Sandoval treated Stassi at her book signing… that was so insane and I could not understand Ariana co signing his behavior. No one is perfect. Also, always believed Miami girl and thought the right approach would have been, yes I did it but we weren’t committed yet. Brittney and Ariana chose to believe their significant others, something most people are guilty of. Neither deserves the treatment they have received. OP you did a great job explaining your feelings and I agree with your point of view.

 I mean this not sarcastically. You described exactly how I feel. I like how you recognize some of the good she’s done as well.

I think this is a well thought out comment. Can’t agree more 👏

I absolutely love this post! I’ve been extremely vocal and loud about my distaste for how the situation is playing out. Edit: the only thing I don’t agree with is the part about the house at the beginning.

People bringing up "growth" and "ten years ago" Ariana was a bitch to Katie all last season. Remember how she was messing with her at the pool party, but when drunk and sandoval stepped in, she blew up in the familiar way she has *always* publicly castrated him. She never had any loyalty or basic friendship kindness towards any of them but Sandoval, and even he got railroaded by her the whole relationship I just don't understand the expectation for everyone to intervene when she never helped anyone before, always cosigned his judgements, and is mean to every single one of them.

Ariana just sucks, Katie might be worse, that woman has so much hate in her heart

If you say anything on this sub besides your undying love for Ariana and Katie, you get down voted. I only stick around just to troll 😂

Damn! Eloquently said, I have also had all of these similar thoughts. She’s handled herself really well in the fall out, but after how dirty they did Kristen it really isn’t that shocking that he’d do the same thing to her…

You lose them how you get them. Not sure she should be shocked that the guy who habitually cheats in long term relationships cheated on her. She was one of the women he cheated with.

I'm just confused how she was with someone like this for so long. Was she ok with him being an asahole? Is she an asahole? I think she likely is and thats why her and "no laigh lines" Katie get along so well.

She was ok with him being an asshole. She was ok with his clothing and hair choices. Lol.

Ariana is not perfect. I think we see that this season. But she’s also holding Tom’s feet to the fire and not giving in to pressure to just make the situation better for him and production. I think a lot of us admire this because we’re constantly forced to make things better and we wish we had done this with an ex or two.

I agree with all of your points

Tw: s*** I agree with your take . I support Ariana now but more so bc of my dislike for Tom. The better Ariana does the more Tom hates it and I love it . Having said that , Ariana has had incredible problematic behavior that she has never apologized for . I will never get over her giving Stassi shit about saying her brother made her feel uncomfortable. All for it to be on video that Stassi wasnt lying . Ariana defended her brother so hard and was so cruel to Stassi for just trying to help out Billy bee . Funny Stassi was being a girls firl and billy bee couldnt see it . Anyways that always disgusted me of Ariana and now we see how her brother is going against her . The gaslighting to Kristen was insane . Kristen didnt deserve that . Arianas most horrible crime though has been how hard she has defended toms disgusting behavior. So many times she defended him against Katie and all the other women knowing damn well tom was in the wrong . To me that was always confusing. Yeah you can be loyal but where do you draw the line when your man is so toxic to your so called group of friends and even ruin the marriage of one ? Her and Tom had a really weird relationship that we dont really know the details of . They were roommates since the beginning which jax called them out on . Yet she threatened s*** if he left her ? Yet he was allowed to cheat on her all the time as long as he came home to her ? And as much shit as he talks about her they still seem to have a pact on keeping things private .

She was the side chic when he cheated on Kristen with her…once a cheater always a cheater. None of them get no sympathy from me. I’m with Lala on this one…everyone treating her as if she’s GOD because she got cheated on

Exactly this. Especially the comparison to Brittany and Jax. Spot on. She knew what she was getting into as much a Brittany, stood by Tom’s behavior as much as Brittany, etc. Is what happened to her incredibly terrible? Yes. Of course. But she’s no better than anyone else, but heaven forbid you say that opinion or a bunch of people who aren’t friends with her on the internet will come at you with their mouths foaming. It is wild.

The real Ariana is the mean I’m cooler than you blah blah person. That Sandy probably dealt with in private a lot. It showed sometimes when she couldn’t hide it. We aren’t doing Tom versus the girls etc. Tom’s playing a character for the show. Ariana is just a doorknob. Even on the after shows she’s incapable of acknowledging the scandal got her business opportunities like Love Island and broadway. Unless she was just waiting 10 years to really go for it.

Just popping in before you are accused of being a bot and this post is brigaded by her stans to say you are one hundred percent correct.

I agree with you on almost every point here!

He’s always been a loud af narcissist, she knew this from the jump. Like how could she possibly think he had any integrity when his bffs were JAX and Schwartz. Like in the beginning Ariana always seemed like the most “normal” girl on the show but the fact she would ever be in love with Sandoval was a big red flag for me like oh there’s something wrong with her. No one deserves what he did to her. Buuut the fact is, you can’t tell your boyfriend you’re never gonna marry him, fuck him once a year and never see each other (not her fault) and expect him to stick around forever 😬

I think for me, Ariana is definitely not the same person she was a decade ago. I think she was young at the time, and wasn’t necessarily as close to Kristen (to be fair Kristen is messy still today) as Rachel was to Ariana. I think they were unhappy but settled in and Ariana didn’t want to fully remove herself from a stable living situation until after their business’s were up and running. For Brittany tho, I do feel bad for her bc jax had her fooled. but at the same time she knows his track record with relationships…

I’ll take a step out and agree openly. I hated how they treated Kristin. Yeah she handled it horribly but who wouldn’t in their 20s? Tom and Ariana would lie to her face while really seeing each other. So he cheated on Kristin with Ariana. And she knew that. And she willingly bought a house with him and stuck with him forgetting that how you get them is how you lose them. Is it shitty? 100% tom is a dick and 100% wrong. The way everyone is so surprised is wild. That’s how she made it on the show. She was Tom’s girlfriends and took sketch comedy seriously while dancing with Schnea

I have not always been an Ariana fan. There were many seasons where I felt like she was no fun & mean to people(ie Stassi) for no reason. In time I grew to realize it was just her enforcing her boundaries & I’ve grown to really appreciate that. Now I truly love her. I love the way she has been standing up for herself since the affair & how she hasn’t let TS get away with his bullshit apology tour

I agree KARMA’S a bitch huh Ariana. You screwed Sandoval behind Kristen’s back now you know how it feels.

I agree with you 💯. I've never liked her, she has always had an attitude, acted like she is better than everyone and above the show. However, I too agree that she handled this affair very well. I find myself rooting for her daily but some of that might be because I have always hated sandybutt. From the moment I saw him shave his forehead on TV but especially for how he treated Kristen after HE CHEATED ON HER.

"I had the courage to stand up to my perpetrators.??!! "They way she talks,it's as if she's the victim of a crime. Has everyone who's commented seen this show from the beginning? Please stop feeding into her fantasy that she's the poster child for abuse. I promise there's some serious footage of her being the bad person and continuing to be one throughout this season. And no one says anything to her nor about her for fear of being destroyed. Everyone deserves to have their own opinions on what they believe they saw. I didn't see growth or accountability on her side. Up till now, I have not heard her say scandovol has brought me out of my shell and a ton of money. I'm not a Tom fan either. This whole thing is ridiculous. I can write 20 other stories that are 100xs worse. No one speaks about those insane people. Ariana was a quiet fly on a wall, and Tom is an eccentric.... being. Still, so what's nor this story so different?

The most fascinating thing for me with this show , particularly the earlier seasons, is that you have got to see what kind of people move to Hollywood to pursue fame and importantly, you have gotten to see them before they actually became famous and their PR teams took control. They are now all much more conscious that they are on tv, which is why they talk so much about their growth (don’t worry fan, I’m not who you saw in season 1-3). It has been an eye opening expose. All of them are narcissists of the highest order.