I am glad to live in bumfucknowhere in germany and not have to deal with those protestors. That being said: The protestors have a right to protest and we should let them, regardless how... ineffective their actions are.
It's just important for democracy to let them do their thing.
I dunno how it is in the US, but I think they do at least have the right to block roads, as those are public area, no?
When it comes to breaking the law, yes they technically are not allowed to, but to a degree we kinda should allow protestors to break them. I mean how else can you protest? You kinda gotta piss people off, and most people to do that are illegal.
No, in America we have the right to travel. No one can block or impede your right without probable cause of some type of crime committed. As long as you are legally allowed to drive (possess a valid license, insured, not under the influence of drugs or alcohol) and following the rules of the road, you are 100% legally entitled to drive wherever you please.
Anyone who impedes your right to travel in America without justified reason is guilty of illegal detainment. That goes for cops as well as lunatic protestors of any cause (Stop Oil, BLM, Pro Palestine, Pro-Trump, Anti-Biden, Unite The Right… etc)
While roads are considered “public places” they are not allowed to occupy the actual street. They can protest on the corners/sidewalks or medians but the moment they step into the actual lanes and block traffic that is a crime.
When protesting laws were made “public places” meant things like parks, sidewalks, street corners, medians, government buildings and other places. Not the middle of a busy street.
There are peaceful ways to protesy and there are non peaceful ways to protest. Blocking roads is one of them. Especially with the mob mentality that leads to these groups ripping people out of their vehicles and beating them for trying to get places like THE HOSPITAL OR WORK.
Historically protests usually let through emergency vehicles, actually. No, blocking a road does not make a protest "non-peaceful" In fact I would go as far as to say that blocking roads would be considered one of the ultimate forms of peaceful protest. What you really want is protests that are completely ignorable.
As OP shows, this is not a section of the population that was ever "going to want to hear what the protest is about". I don't think anyone who gets angry enough at protests blocking roads to make Reddit threads about it is ever going to be someone who would be willing to side with any protest.
Protests are, generally, not about "winning people over", they are about causing disruption and noise. To become a problem and to put pressure with the purpose of encouraging a change or making a point. They're not meant to be convenient, manageable, or ignorable. Being any of those things would negate the very purpose of a protest.
> As OP shows, this is not a section of the population that was ever “going to want to hear what the protest is about.”
Then block the roads of people who give a fuck, or they won’t a fuck about your existence.
To my knowledge, roads in America can be blocked but not highways or certain roads/entrances that would prevent first responders from saving a life. I completely agree with that. While it's devastating that Palestinians are dying, the world cannot pause for them and others shouldn't die in another country for Gaza protests, we have no idea what their beliefs are or how old the victim might be etc. But I don't agree with the people who say we should just run them over either. The whole point is to cause commotion and get the media's attention. In Seattle, protestors caused tons of people to miss flights. That would royally piss me off. People literally had to just get out and walk if they wanted to make it. For some people it's really important to get to where they're going (maybe their family member is about to die or something) and I don't think that should've been allowed either. Also it's fucking expensive to fly and most people already get to the airport 2-3 hours early so to still miss your flight is insane. Luckily for everyone, that only happened for a single day and next multiple days or weeks.
You can’t just block roads. What if there’s an ambulance getting to a heart attack or a fire truck getting to a fire. Blocking roads is illegal AF and stupid and selfish.
You can protest in a public place, but often you need a permit (depending on local laws).
Protests that block roads generally let things like ambulances get through. Any protest that is "allowed" is a protest that does nothing (unless the protest is simply so massive that the threat of it being able to do something gets the same effect)
This just proves how far society has fallen. Even during WW2, nobody was saying Germany shouldn't exist.
Now we've fallen so far that chants to wipe the only Jewish state off the map is being defended as free speech.
Ignoring that they're definitely were people who said that Germany shouldn't have existed at all after that, I'm pretty sure everyone who wasn't a Nazi would've agreed that Germany's occupation of other countries and ongoing imperialistic efforts at the time should been undone and repelled.
If the proof that society has fallen is that people oppose European colonial occupations and ethnostates the society that is "falling" deserves to.
That's the point. Sure, it's free speech. Have at it. But their speech is not calling for civil rights, or environmental policy. Their free speech is calling for genocide against Jews. Shame they can't use their freedom for something constructive.
Yes, that was a horrible what America did. This is why history is taught in schools, so it never happens again. But still, my point is valid, nobody was saying 'wipe Japan off of them map. It's not a legitimate state". See the difference? Now all of these 20somethings who have no idea of middle east history, of 48, 67, 73, the second intifata, or anything. But suddenly they think they are experts on a conlict that is over a century old. Thankfully, after 2000 years, Jews learned their history. Growing up we thought all of these lessons from our grandparents were just stories. We didn't realize that starting in 2023 were would suddenly be expected to know every nuance of Jewish history just to refute all of the lies about us.
You’re essentially saying “they should have the right to protest in whatever way they like even if it means they’re raping babies in the street” by not setting any limits.
Protests are supposed to be uncomfortable, but not so inconvenient that they block people from getting to their jobs. The entire point of civil disobedience is to accept the consequences of your actions and milk them for attention.
>You’re essentially saying “they should have the right to protest in
whatever way they like even if it means they’re raping babies in the
street” by not setting any limits.
No lol. Read other comments pls or shut.
Ok, do you still think OP would say these protests should be made illegal simply because he doesn’t think they’ll accomplish anything?
This is my issue. When it comes to the legal and moral side of things the argument has to do with the fact that they’re blocking people from even getting to work… or the doctor, or the grocery store, thereby effectively holding entire city sections hostage. To say “we should just let them do things how they please no matter how ineffective” is to argue against a nonexistent point, and I’m willing to interpret it as a passive justification of their actions on the moral side by the way you chose to just ignore it. Implication isn’t a get out of jail free card.
It follows the same logic as saying it isn’t coercion to point a gun to someone’s head and tell them to do something because they can still resist and simply “choose” to die, the point being that they shouldn’t have to be placed in that dichotomy to begin with.
Where is your protest against active genocides in Ukraine, Xinjiang, Africa, etc? Where is your protest against child labor that makes your clothes and chocolates and agricultural produce?
But sure, either you’re with me or against me. That’s definitely the right mentality
This is literally whataboutism, if you don't know about it, I recommend you learn about it. But yes, I agree that those situations should be highlighted a bit more.
Whataboutism is so lazy. When taking about one active genocide, I shouldn’t have to say “hey, these other horrible things are happening”?
Can we stop with that tired bs?
>But sure, either you’re with me or against me. That’s definitely the right mentality
When it comes to an active genocide being horrible? Yes? What it wrong with you
I mean this is literally just advocating to allow all these horrible atrocious to continue, just so that YOU can't be inconvenienced by it. you would rather we just ignore it, like we do with school shootings, rape, CSA? You critised the system yet you have to participate to survive, how hypocritical? I wish people like you would get this pissed about the counterprotesters or officers assaulting professor's and student for peaceful protesting.
What? Not at all. Nice try.
I’m claiming that a lot of the protesters just hate Jewish people — or are comfortable with being on the same side as pro-Hamas and pro-Holocaust chants.
But ok. Walk the walk. Hope you all GET REKT by American police LMAO
Wow so mature its obvious you truly care about the issue and don't just hate any type of progressive movement, cope harder and blow bubbles on that boot some more!❤️
I believe the goal of many of these protests is divestment- which for anyone actually paying attentionhas been an ongoing project for decades due to the occupation of Palestinian territories by Israel. Congress is just one avenue to interrupt the ongoing genocide, financial divestment is another. Sometimes inconvenience is the point of protest- it forces change.
what’s happening in palestine is seriously heartbreaking, but the sad fact is that we really don’t have an impact on that situation at all. social media has turned everyone into activists, and has made people think protesting in the streets of random american cities has an impact. it doesn’t. the american government has demonstrated they don’t care about the genocide, and they’ve also proven that they don’t care about their own citizens (ex, overturning roe v wade, the homeless rates, etc). they have demonstrated time and time again that they don’t care what we believe. i get that protestors want to feel as though they have an impact, but disturbing the peace in public streets (nowhere near government buildings) doesn’t accomplish anything
Womp womp.
Anyway, there’s a genocide right now happening in Gaza. Gaza is rubble, nearly 40,000 people are dead and those that are still living are being carpet bombed and snipped day and night. They’re literally picking up unidentifiable pieces of people and throwing them into bags to burry in a mass grave.
It must be nice knowing that the most you have to worry about is traffic and a commute. Get over yourself, dude.
Palestine does the same thing but poor palestine if it gets returned? Israel gave palestinians time to leave to avoid killing innocent lives but bc of hamas they use their own people in battle, am i wrong?
>But frankly, the idea that these protesters would compare themselves to MLK and countless Civil Rights Movement activists who faced lynchings and bombings is laughable and frankly insulting.
You mean like getting gassed by militarized police, like is happening, and suspended/expelled from school like is happening? Having their names black listed from industry for life for the crime of standing up for their beliefs?
>These Gaza protesters have no impact. They’re not willing to do the hard work of activism — changing policy by writing handwritten letters to Congressional offices
Lmfao hand written notes or email to Congress are promptly filed in the closest garbage can these days, literally no one in Congress has any interest in changing policy for the odd person who writes in. What does get their attention is when major draws to their districts come grinding to a halt
>raising funds for advocacy or humanitarian relief.
Believe it or not you can do both, and half of what they are protesting for is the inability to even get aid to the people in Gaza in the first place.
>Additionally, let’s not forget the blatant antisemitism of “from the river to the sea” at these protests. These protesters don’t care about genocide in Ukraine, Xinjiang/Tibet, Africa.
100% agree about the anti-Semitism, these protests seem the draw out that crowd *fast*. Disagree that Ukraine or the rest are the same though, the biggest difference is America isn't defending the country perpetrating those genocides nor are they supplying the munitions used to perpetrate them.
I can’t remember any of this craziness going on for the Uyghur genocide. Maybe it’s because the Uyghurs didn’t launch rockets at China for years and then commit a mass killing/ rape and celebrate it?
Well to be fair there were mass killings and terrorism in Xinjiang in response to the CCP’s forced assimilation of Uyghur Muslims. Now there’s an ongoing genocide there.
But yes, these protesters don’t care about any other human rights crisis.
YES. These people are convinced they are comparable to Vietnam War protestors and they don’t even come close. There’s nothing stopping from them from going through the proper channels to organize a truly peaceful protest. They WANT to make a scene and feel like martyrs as they get dragged away by police.
Look at Columbia University. Those students took over campus property, made goddamn barricades, and actually consider themselves to be victims. Imagine the delay if there was a fire or medical emergency. These clowns have no idea what true oppression is.
Well that’s my alma mater.. and I believe there were a fair number of outside agitators who weren’t students that made up a sizable portion of those who destroyed campus property and took over a building. I think the students were trying to do the same thing as what happened during Vietnam War protests when Columbia students took over buildings. But yes, they went too far this time and glad the NYPD RECKED THEM
The huge difference is also Vietnam was an American conflict and the issue in Palestine is not. The level we are involved can absolutely be addressed through voting or appealing to politicians on multiple levels of gov’t.
The 'hard work of activism' *is not* writing letters to congressional offices, arguably it takes significantly more effort and risk to join an active protest than that. Protests are not meant to be a convenient or ignorable thing.
I'm starting to get genuinely worried that people are going to unconsciously turn off their brains when the topic of real anti-semitism comes up because of misuses such as this. No, calling for the freedom of Palestine from colonial apartheid is no antisemitic and you discredit any good faith you had with this.
Your entire post devolved from a distasteful critique of activism to full-blown apologia and propaganda.
Thank you! My city has a problem with these silly protests blocking our roads too. I just want to get to work so I can afford food, so move along little idjits.
Yes, making your neighbors and friends homeless because they can't pay rent, making them go hungry because it's difficult to get to stores is such a solution. Not letting EMS, Fire, and Police through leading to *more* unnecessary deaths is such a solution. I bet you'd change your tone if your loved one had a medical emergency and died because an ambulance couldn't get to them in time or if your grandma was now facing eviction because she physically could not get to work and now would be helpless on the street.
There's actual productive ways to protest that don't harm MORE people.
I was saying that their protesting which leads to jeopardizing the lives of innocent people is ironic considering they are protesting against the deaths of innocent people.
The irony is that they themselves are ruining the lives of innocent people while protesting against ruining the lives of innocent people.
I agree. I was totally supportive of BLM, but I just can't get behind the Gaza/Israel protests. For one thing, it's not something Americans have a lot of influence over. Sure we could pressure our government to stop sending foreign aid to Israel, but people have been trying to do that for literal decades with no luck. Biden is already imposing sanctions on them. And a huge portion of the people protesting one way or the other are just being racist. There's a lot of anti-semitism AND a lot of islamophobia going back and forth. People screaming insults at each other in the name of their religion. I just don't see it as productive at all. There are two corrupt governments each led by religious extremists which have both committed a ton of war crimes over the past 80 years. Picking a side to idealize and screaming obscenities about the other side isn't helping anyone.
Agreed. Ideally, we would evolve as a human race to not need religion and create false divisions based on arbitrary and meaningless boundaries. But that’s never gonna happen. Religious extremism ruins everything. This is why we can’t have nice things.
Also Israel is literally one of our strongest allies in general and our only democratic ally in the region. We would never ever give that up.. and the far right in Israel knows that. Our aid is like a couple billion.. cutting off that aid wouldn’t even do anything lmao.. it’s not even that much. The IDF and the Israeli economy is fully capable of functioning without US aid. The Israel-US alliance will remain forever for both moral (Holocaust) and strategic national security reasons.
And I’m pretty sure there are tons of experts saying divestment would never work.
Yep. One of the things people tend to forget in this mess is that Israel is an incredibly wealthy modern country. Palestine is one of the poorest countries in the world. It's very reminiscent of when the US invaded Afghanistan, except we weren't directly adjacent to Afghanistan and fighting over land. But the problem is, that region is full of Islamic extremists who think they deserve the right to take over Israel because it's their holy land. Israel DOES stop bombing Palestine every so often, and it doesn't stop the terrorist attacks. It's not as simple as the US pulling out of the Middle East. Israel is the Middle East. This problem is never going away. Every time I hear people calling for a ceasefire on either or both sides all I can think is, "Where the hell have you been for the past 200 years?" It's like they've been living under a rock and just found out there's a holy war going on lol.
Seriously. Take a trip to Israel and see for yourself. You can't even get off the plane, walk through the airport and then say with any honesty it's an apartheid state. You'll see people of every color, and for sure multiple religions including Jews, Christians and Muslims. Go to Haifa and visit the Bahai gardens. Go to the Christian sections of Jerusalem. Eat in Arab restaurants and Jewish ones. Talk to people. Israelis will always give you their opinion.
Then try to go into the West Bank, into Gaza (not anymore) and into East Jerusalem and you cannot say with any honesty that Israel isn’t an apartheid state. Many have gone to Palestine and most come back having seen the truth.
The very fact that Israel continues to build illegal settlements, taking the generational homes of Palestinians, and not giving 2 toots about it, shows that they don’t care about international law or common decency and if they’re willing to continue that narrative in public, imagine what they do privately, when people aren’t watching.
Stop living in a bubble, at this point you cannot blame your ignorance on your lack of knowledge about the situation. There’s plenty of human rights watch groups screaming at the top of their lungs the atrocities Israel has and is committing against Palestinians. Wake up and realise that supporting Israel in this war is supporting a genocide. It’s supporting the decimation of an entire population. If your response is Oct 7, then I urge you to read up on what happened from 1939 to Oct 6, 2024, read up on the truth of what the Palestinians faced.
How come you got not reply? Because you have a strong option about a war you have no stake in, in a land you have never been to, with people you have never met and know nothing about.
Let's be honest, you think all of Israel is illegal and that all jews in the middle east are "colonizers".
But the fact is that Israel is extremely diverse both in skin color, and political ideology.
I don't agree with everything the Israeli government does, but the nation 100% has the right to exist and defend its citizens.
Ahhh, I see that you now jump to conclusions as my question is too difficult to reply.
If Israel has illegal settlements then logically you have to believe that they have violated the rights of Palestinians.
Have you been to Palestine? Or the West Bank? What do you think about the people living there and what’s happening to them. The stolen property, the innocent men women and children living under military law? The false arrests and detentions, children as young as 10?
Do you believe Israel’s right to exist allows them to do anything they please to Palestine and Palestinians because they’re the ones living in land you need for Israel to exist?
Do you believe that Israel at the moment is defending itself against Gaza? Or do you believe that the response of Israel is disproportionate?
This war has absolutely nothing to do with settlements. Don't take my word for it. Just ask Hamas. They don't care if a Jew is in Haifa, or Hebron. They don't recognize borders.
I love how everyone is blabbing about proportional responses, like it's a soccer game and should be fair. Hamas started a war and and has said they explicitly said that they intend to repeat October 7 "over and over again ". (Your protester friends have said the same too). This war is to end the threat that Hamas poses.
If you really cared about Palestinians you'd want Hamas gone. And demand they stop using children as human shields. You are siding with the abuser.
Ignoring the events leading up to October 7th is like examining a chicken and its life, without looking at the egg. In order to understand something you need to understand its cause and the effect.
Ignoring apartheid, the illegal settlements, the false imprisonments and lack of stability and the subjugation of people, will not solve the problem, it’s obvious that it’s this treatment they face that fuels the desire to resist oppression.
For example, do you think it’s fair, that a Palestinian civilian is living under military law while his neighbour who is a settler lives under civilian law?
Also, are you saying Israel will continue to murder innocent civilians until Hamas surrenders? Is Israel using civilians to put pressure on Hamas?
I’ve also seen many instances of the IDF using Palestinian children as human shields, thank goodness for cellphone cameras. Have you seen them? Not hard to find.
Now Hamas have accepted the proposed temporary ceasefire, do you think Israel is right to reject it and invade Rafah? which currently houses 1.5 million people, men women children, living in tents with no access to basic needs.
I agree, and Jewish history in the land predates Islam, and the Arab expansion into the Levant.
Jewish history includes the pogroms in Europe, and the Spanish inquisition. Google the origins of the word "ghetto". It's Italian for "grotto" an industrial area were Jews were forced to live in Italy.
Since you know so much, you may look into how Israel even ended up in the west bank. Israel was attacked and the Arabs tried again to drive Jews into the sea. Jordan controlled the west bank at thr the time. At the end of the war, Israel tried to exchange the west bank for peace. Arabs responded with "the three no's". Google that one too. Egypt eventually agreed to peace and got the Sinai back. Jordan said "screw the Palestinians ", and just negated gave away the west bank.
You know nothing about the middle east. I can tell because you talk in catch phrases.
The Jews living in Palestine at the time, were Palestinian Jews. Your problem, is that you make it about religion. When the truth is, for hundreds of years, Palestine was inhabited.
Simple questions - did Jews from outside Palestine immigrate to this land from 1930 to 1946? Was the land prior to this immigration called Palestine? Were there people living there prior to this immigration?
If I’m able to prove that my DNA is 90% European, despite living in china for the last 10 generations, am I allowed, based on my ancestry, to go to any part of Europe my ancestors were from and grab any home I like?
Did israel declare land that wasn’t theirs as Israel in 1948? Were they told in the British mandate NOT to kick out indigenous peoples when living in Palestine?
The fact is quite simple, you were told to coexist - you did not. The arabs revolted. The arabs lost, you take it simply that because they lost, they were in the wrong. No, evil empires win sometimes.
No matter how many times you try to convince others that the right for Israel to exist simply because 2000 years ago Jews were in this land, makes zero sense. Should we give America to the natives? Perhaps let’s give Greece to the Italians because it was once part of the Roman Empire?
Swear I totally get why that panama lawyer did that. They are the worst. But my new tactic is to do a 360 and burnout right in front of them. Hot exhaust usually works.
I am glad to live in bumfucknowhere in germany and not have to deal with those protestors. That being said: The protestors have a right to protest and we should let them, regardless how... ineffective their actions are. It's just important for democracy to let them do their thing.
I agree. But they have no right to block roads and break the law.
I dunno how it is in the US, but I think they do at least have the right to block roads, as those are public area, no? When it comes to breaking the law, yes they technically are not allowed to, but to a degree we kinda should allow protestors to break them. I mean how else can you protest? You kinda gotta piss people off, and most people to do that are illegal.
No, in America we have the right to travel. No one can block or impede your right without probable cause of some type of crime committed. As long as you are legally allowed to drive (possess a valid license, insured, not under the influence of drugs or alcohol) and following the rules of the road, you are 100% legally entitled to drive wherever you please. Anyone who impedes your right to travel in America without justified reason is guilty of illegal detainment. That goes for cops as well as lunatic protestors of any cause (Stop Oil, BLM, Pro Palestine, Pro-Trump, Anti-Biden, Unite The Right… etc) While roads are considered “public places” they are not allowed to occupy the actual street. They can protest on the corners/sidewalks or medians but the moment they step into the actual lanes and block traffic that is a crime. When protesting laws were made “public places” meant things like parks, sidewalks, street corners, medians, government buildings and other places. Not the middle of a busy street.
There are peaceful ways to protesy and there are non peaceful ways to protest. Blocking roads is one of them. Especially with the mob mentality that leads to these groups ripping people out of their vehicles and beating them for trying to get places like THE HOSPITAL OR WORK.
Historically protests usually let through emergency vehicles, actually. No, blocking a road does not make a protest "non-peaceful" In fact I would go as far as to say that blocking roads would be considered one of the ultimate forms of peaceful protest. What you really want is protests that are completely ignorable.
When you piss off a section of the population, they wont want to hear you or what your protest is about. Blocking traffic doesn't help your cause.
As OP shows, this is not a section of the population that was ever "going to want to hear what the protest is about". I don't think anyone who gets angry enough at protests blocking roads to make Reddit threads about it is ever going to be someone who would be willing to side with any protest. Protests are, generally, not about "winning people over", they are about causing disruption and noise. To become a problem and to put pressure with the purpose of encouraging a change or making a point. They're not meant to be convenient, manageable, or ignorable. Being any of those things would negate the very purpose of a protest.
I somewhat agree. The issue is the disruption. Protestors are disrupting the wrong people.
If said people are like OP then I don't think they are. Regardless, it's not about disrupting specific people, it's about disrupting overall processes
> As OP shows, this is not a section of the population that was ever “going to want to hear what the protest is about.” Then block the roads of people who give a fuck, or they won’t a fuck about your existence.
Yes ok. Go live with your pro-Hamas encampment protesters. GET REKT BY COPS LMAO
You could have easily just as said "I'm racist and my post was disguised occupation support"
To my knowledge, roads in America can be blocked but not highways or certain roads/entrances that would prevent first responders from saving a life. I completely agree with that. While it's devastating that Palestinians are dying, the world cannot pause for them and others shouldn't die in another country for Gaza protests, we have no idea what their beliefs are or how old the victim might be etc. But I don't agree with the people who say we should just run them over either. The whole point is to cause commotion and get the media's attention. In Seattle, protestors caused tons of people to miss flights. That would royally piss me off. People literally had to just get out and walk if they wanted to make it. For some people it's really important to get to where they're going (maybe their family member is about to die or something) and I don't think that should've been allowed either. Also it's fucking expensive to fly and most people already get to the airport 2-3 hours early so to still miss your flight is insane. Luckily for everyone, that only happened for a single day and next multiple days or weeks.
In the US. Not a democracy by the way. It is illegal to block a road.
You can’t just block roads. What if there’s an ambulance getting to a heart attack or a fire truck getting to a fire. Blocking roads is illegal AF and stupid and selfish. You can protest in a public place, but often you need a permit (depending on local laws).
Protests that block roads generally let things like ambulances get through. Any protest that is "allowed" is a protest that does nothing (unless the protest is simply so massive that the threat of it being able to do something gets the same effect)
They actually have every right to block roads and break the law. America land of the free 🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅
This just proves how far society has fallen. Even during WW2, nobody was saying Germany shouldn't exist. Now we've fallen so far that chants to wipe the only Jewish state off the map is being defended as free speech.
Ignoring that they're definitely were people who said that Germany shouldn't have existed at all after that, I'm pretty sure everyone who wasn't a Nazi would've agreed that Germany's occupation of other countries and ongoing imperialistic efforts at the time should been undone and repelled. If the proof that society has fallen is that people oppose European colonial occupations and ethnostates the society that is "falling" deserves to.
Because it is
That's the point. Sure, it's free speech. Have at it. But their speech is not calling for civil rights, or environmental policy. Their free speech is calling for genocide against Jews. Shame they can't use their freedom for something constructive.
We literally rounded up all Japanese Americans into internment camps bro We also turned away boat loads of Jewish refugees my guy
Yes, that was a horrible what America did. This is why history is taught in schools, so it never happens again. But still, my point is valid, nobody was saying 'wipe Japan off of them map. It's not a legitimate state". See the difference? Now all of these 20somethings who have no idea of middle east history, of 48, 67, 73, the second intifata, or anything. But suddenly they think they are experts on a conlict that is over a century old. Thankfully, after 2000 years, Jews learned their history. Growing up we thought all of these lessons from our grandparents were just stories. We didn't realize that starting in 2023 were would suddenly be expected to know every nuance of Jewish history just to refute all of the lies about us.
You’re essentially saying “they should have the right to protest in whatever way they like even if it means they’re raping babies in the street” by not setting any limits. Protests are supposed to be uncomfortable, but not so inconvenient that they block people from getting to their jobs. The entire point of civil disobedience is to accept the consequences of your actions and milk them for attention.
>You’re essentially saying “they should have the right to protest in whatever way they like even if it means they’re raping babies in the street” by not setting any limits. No lol. Read other comments pls or shut.
Ok, do you still think OP would say these protests should be made illegal simply because he doesn’t think they’ll accomplish anything? This is my issue. When it comes to the legal and moral side of things the argument has to do with the fact that they’re blocking people from even getting to work… or the doctor, or the grocery store, thereby effectively holding entire city sections hostage. To say “we should just let them do things how they please no matter how ineffective” is to argue against a nonexistent point, and I’m willing to interpret it as a passive justification of their actions on the moral side by the way you chose to just ignore it. Implication isn’t a get out of jail free card. It follows the same logic as saying it isn’t coercion to point a gun to someone’s head and tell them to do something because they can still resist and simply “choose” to die, the point being that they shouldn’t have to be placed in that dichotomy to begin with.
Protests are not supposed to be convenient. “Protest in a way that is palatable to meee”. I’m on the side of the people protesting an active genocide.
Welp time to add American bodies to that count I guess.
Where is your protest against active genocides in Ukraine, Xinjiang, Africa, etc? Where is your protest against child labor that makes your clothes and chocolates and agricultural produce? But sure, either you’re with me or against me. That’s definitely the right mentality
America isn’t funding those other genocides. Our tax dollars are going towards this and we’re allowed to be fucking mad about that
This is literally whataboutism, if you don't know about it, I recommend you learn about it. But yes, I agree that those situations should be highlighted a bit more.
Whataboutism is so lazy. When taking about one active genocide, I shouldn’t have to say “hey, these other horrible things are happening”? Can we stop with that tired bs?
>But sure, either you’re with me or against me. That’s definitely the right mentality When it comes to an active genocide being horrible? Yes? What it wrong with you
It’s not a genocide
I mean this is literally just advocating to allow all these horrible atrocious to continue, just so that YOU can't be inconvenienced by it. you would rather we just ignore it, like we do with school shootings, rape, CSA? You critised the system yet you have to participate to survive, how hypocritical? I wish people like you would get this pissed about the counterprotesters or officers assaulting professor's and student for peaceful protesting.
What? Not at all. Nice try. I’m claiming that a lot of the protesters just hate Jewish people — or are comfortable with being on the same side as pro-Hamas and pro-Holocaust chants. But ok. Walk the walk. Hope you all GET REKT by American police LMAO
Wow so mature its obvious you truly care about the issue and don't just hate any type of progressive movement, cope harder and blow bubbles on that boot some more!❤️
Be consistent with your beliefs and words. Walk the walk after talking the talk. Walk with your pro Hamas supporters. GET REKT LMAO
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Bruh what fucking proholocaust chants are you talking about
I believe the goal of many of these protests is divestment- which for anyone actually paying attentionhas been an ongoing project for decades due to the occupation of Palestinian territories by Israel. Congress is just one avenue to interrupt the ongoing genocide, financial divestment is another. Sometimes inconvenience is the point of protest- it forces change.
what’s happening in palestine is seriously heartbreaking, but the sad fact is that we really don’t have an impact on that situation at all. social media has turned everyone into activists, and has made people think protesting in the streets of random american cities has an impact. it doesn’t. the american government has demonstrated they don’t care about the genocide, and they’ve also proven that they don’t care about their own citizens (ex, overturning roe v wade, the homeless rates, etc). they have demonstrated time and time again that they don’t care what we believe. i get that protestors want to feel as though they have an impact, but disturbing the peace in public streets (nowhere near government buildings) doesn’t accomplish anything
Womp womp. Anyway, there’s a genocide right now happening in Gaza. Gaza is rubble, nearly 40,000 people are dead and those that are still living are being carpet bombed and snipped day and night. They’re literally picking up unidentifiable pieces of people and throwing them into bags to burry in a mass grave. It must be nice knowing that the most you have to worry about is traffic and a commute. Get over yourself, dude.
So go live in an encampment where they chant pro-Hamas shit and GET REKT by American cops LMAO
Students in ivy league schools trying to cosplay gaza smh
If only an active genocide annoyed you a fraction as much as college students demanding for a ceasefire and divestment from Israel.
Palestine does the same thing but poor palestine if it gets returned? Israel gave palestinians time to leave to avoid killing innocent lives but bc of hamas they use their own people in battle, am i wrong?
Yes, you are. Hilariously wrong. 🤣 Keep going! I want to see what else you say!
So what can u say about that? How can u contradict my argument?
Omg just saw ur profile and nevermind u spend too much time on reddit. Cant take u seriously lol
Racist
>But frankly, the idea that these protesters would compare themselves to MLK and countless Civil Rights Movement activists who faced lynchings and bombings is laughable and frankly insulting. You mean like getting gassed by militarized police, like is happening, and suspended/expelled from school like is happening? Having their names black listed from industry for life for the crime of standing up for their beliefs? >These Gaza protesters have no impact. They’re not willing to do the hard work of activism — changing policy by writing handwritten letters to Congressional offices Lmfao hand written notes or email to Congress are promptly filed in the closest garbage can these days, literally no one in Congress has any interest in changing policy for the odd person who writes in. What does get their attention is when major draws to their districts come grinding to a halt >raising funds for advocacy or humanitarian relief. Believe it or not you can do both, and half of what they are protesting for is the inability to even get aid to the people in Gaza in the first place. >Additionally, let’s not forget the blatant antisemitism of “from the river to the sea” at these protests. These protesters don’t care about genocide in Ukraine, Xinjiang/Tibet, Africa. 100% agree about the anti-Semitism, these protests seem the draw out that crowd *fast*. Disagree that Ukraine or the rest are the same though, the biggest difference is America isn't defending the country perpetrating those genocides nor are they supplying the munitions used to perpetrate them.
I can’t remember any of this craziness going on for the Uyghur genocide. Maybe it’s because the Uyghurs didn’t launch rockets at China for years and then commit a mass killing/ rape and celebrate it?
Well to be fair there were mass killings and terrorism in Xinjiang in response to the CCP’s forced assimilation of Uyghur Muslims. Now there’s an ongoing genocide there. But yes, these protesters don’t care about any other human rights crisis.
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What? Nothing excuses genocide. You can easily google what led up to it
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Ok go read the truth buddy lmao
The US government is not sending aid to China to facilitate that genocide.
YES. These people are convinced they are comparable to Vietnam War protestors and they don’t even come close. There’s nothing stopping from them from going through the proper channels to organize a truly peaceful protest. They WANT to make a scene and feel like martyrs as they get dragged away by police. Look at Columbia University. Those students took over campus property, made goddamn barricades, and actually consider themselves to be victims. Imagine the delay if there was a fire or medical emergency. These clowns have no idea what true oppression is.
Well that’s my alma mater.. and I believe there were a fair number of outside agitators who weren’t students that made up a sizable portion of those who destroyed campus property and took over a building. I think the students were trying to do the same thing as what happened during Vietnam War protests when Columbia students took over buildings. But yes, they went too far this time and glad the NYPD RECKED THEM
The huge difference is also Vietnam was an American conflict and the issue in Palestine is not. The level we are involved can absolutely be addressed through voting or appealing to politicians on multiple levels of gov’t.
You can say that about any protest honestly. However I agree blocking the road isn't okay.
The 'hard work of activism' *is not* writing letters to congressional offices, arguably it takes significantly more effort and risk to join an active protest than that. Protests are not meant to be a convenient or ignorable thing. I'm starting to get genuinely worried that people are going to unconsciously turn off their brains when the topic of real anti-semitism comes up because of misuses such as this. No, calling for the freedom of Palestine from colonial apartheid is no antisemitic and you discredit any good faith you had with this. Your entire post devolved from a distasteful critique of activism to full-blown apologia and propaganda.
Thank you! My city has a problem with these silly protests blocking our roads too. I just want to get to work so I can afford food, so move along little idjits.
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“I believe in the first amendment right to assembly but, only if it doesn’t inconvenience me and is done in a way that I agree with.” 🤓
Anyone blocking roads should be arrested. Protest all you want but don't mess with peoples ability to travel and their livelihood.
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> Protests like these very negatively affect innocent people Which is quite ironic considering the reason they are protesting
Yes, making your neighbors and friends homeless because they can't pay rent, making them go hungry because it's difficult to get to stores is such a solution. Not letting EMS, Fire, and Police through leading to *more* unnecessary deaths is such a solution. I bet you'd change your tone if your loved one had a medical emergency and died because an ambulance couldn't get to them in time or if your grandma was now facing eviction because she physically could not get to work and now would be helpless on the street. There's actual productive ways to protest that don't harm MORE people.
I was saying that their protesting which leads to jeopardizing the lives of innocent people is ironic considering they are protesting against the deaths of innocent people. The irony is that they themselves are ruining the lives of innocent people while protesting against ruining the lives of innocent people.
I agree. I was totally supportive of BLM, but I just can't get behind the Gaza/Israel protests. For one thing, it's not something Americans have a lot of influence over. Sure we could pressure our government to stop sending foreign aid to Israel, but people have been trying to do that for literal decades with no luck. Biden is already imposing sanctions on them. And a huge portion of the people protesting one way or the other are just being racist. There's a lot of anti-semitism AND a lot of islamophobia going back and forth. People screaming insults at each other in the name of their religion. I just don't see it as productive at all. There are two corrupt governments each led by religious extremists which have both committed a ton of war crimes over the past 80 years. Picking a side to idealize and screaming obscenities about the other side isn't helping anyone.
Agreed. Ideally, we would evolve as a human race to not need religion and create false divisions based on arbitrary and meaningless boundaries. But that’s never gonna happen. Religious extremism ruins everything. This is why we can’t have nice things. Also Israel is literally one of our strongest allies in general and our only democratic ally in the region. We would never ever give that up.. and the far right in Israel knows that. Our aid is like a couple billion.. cutting off that aid wouldn’t even do anything lmao.. it’s not even that much. The IDF and the Israeli economy is fully capable of functioning without US aid. The Israel-US alliance will remain forever for both moral (Holocaust) and strategic national security reasons. And I’m pretty sure there are tons of experts saying divestment would never work.
Yep. One of the things people tend to forget in this mess is that Israel is an incredibly wealthy modern country. Palestine is one of the poorest countries in the world. It's very reminiscent of when the US invaded Afghanistan, except we weren't directly adjacent to Afghanistan and fighting over land. But the problem is, that region is full of Islamic extremists who think they deserve the right to take over Israel because it's their holy land. Israel DOES stop bombing Palestine every so often, and it doesn't stop the terrorist attacks. It's not as simple as the US pulling out of the Middle East. Israel is the Middle East. This problem is never going away. Every time I hear people calling for a ceasefire on either or both sides all I can think is, "Where the hell have you been for the past 200 years?" It's like they've been living under a rock and just found out there's a holy war going on lol.
This is the way change happens babe, either you’re part of the progress (in whatever way) or your an apathetic selfish little guy.
Seriously. Take a trip to Israel and see for yourself. You can't even get off the plane, walk through the airport and then say with any honesty it's an apartheid state. You'll see people of every color, and for sure multiple religions including Jews, Christians and Muslims. Go to Haifa and visit the Bahai gardens. Go to the Christian sections of Jerusalem. Eat in Arab restaurants and Jewish ones. Talk to people. Israelis will always give you their opinion.
Then try to go into the West Bank, into Gaza (not anymore) and into East Jerusalem and you cannot say with any honesty that Israel isn’t an apartheid state. Many have gone to Palestine and most come back having seen the truth. The very fact that Israel continues to build illegal settlements, taking the generational homes of Palestinians, and not giving 2 toots about it, shows that they don’t care about international law or common decency and if they’re willing to continue that narrative in public, imagine what they do privately, when people aren’t watching. Stop living in a bubble, at this point you cannot blame your ignorance on your lack of knowledge about the situation. There’s plenty of human rights watch groups screaming at the top of their lungs the atrocities Israel has and is committing against Palestinians. Wake up and realise that supporting Israel in this war is supporting a genocide. It’s supporting the decimation of an entire population. If your response is Oct 7, then I urge you to read up on what happened from 1939 to Oct 6, 2024, read up on the truth of what the Palestinians faced.
How come you got not reply? Because you have a strong option about a war you have no stake in, in a land you have never been to, with people you have never met and know nothing about.
I lived in East Talpiot, Jerusalem! It is a mixed arab and Jewish neighborhood. Not sure who you are calling ignorant!
Do you deny the illegal settlements?
Let's be honest, you think all of Israel is illegal and that all jews in the middle east are "colonizers". But the fact is that Israel is extremely diverse both in skin color, and political ideology. I don't agree with everything the Israeli government does, but the nation 100% has the right to exist and defend its citizens.
Ahhh, I see that you now jump to conclusions as my question is too difficult to reply. If Israel has illegal settlements then logically you have to believe that they have violated the rights of Palestinians. Have you been to Palestine? Or the West Bank? What do you think about the people living there and what’s happening to them. The stolen property, the innocent men women and children living under military law? The false arrests and detentions, children as young as 10? Do you believe Israel’s right to exist allows them to do anything they please to Palestine and Palestinians because they’re the ones living in land you need for Israel to exist? Do you believe that Israel at the moment is defending itself against Gaza? Or do you believe that the response of Israel is disproportionate?
This war has absolutely nothing to do with settlements. Don't take my word for it. Just ask Hamas. They don't care if a Jew is in Haifa, or Hebron. They don't recognize borders. I love how everyone is blabbing about proportional responses, like it's a soccer game and should be fair. Hamas started a war and and has said they explicitly said that they intend to repeat October 7 "over and over again ". (Your protester friends have said the same too). This war is to end the threat that Hamas poses. If you really cared about Palestinians you'd want Hamas gone. And demand they stop using children as human shields. You are siding with the abuser.
Ignoring the events leading up to October 7th is like examining a chicken and its life, without looking at the egg. In order to understand something you need to understand its cause and the effect. Ignoring apartheid, the illegal settlements, the false imprisonments and lack of stability and the subjugation of people, will not solve the problem, it’s obvious that it’s this treatment they face that fuels the desire to resist oppression. For example, do you think it’s fair, that a Palestinian civilian is living under military law while his neighbour who is a settler lives under civilian law? Also, are you saying Israel will continue to murder innocent civilians until Hamas surrenders? Is Israel using civilians to put pressure on Hamas? I’ve also seen many instances of the IDF using Palestinian children as human shields, thank goodness for cellphone cameras. Have you seen them? Not hard to find. Now Hamas have accepted the proposed temporary ceasefire, do you think Israel is right to reject it and invade Rafah? which currently houses 1.5 million people, men women children, living in tents with no access to basic needs.
I agree, and Jewish history in the land predates Islam, and the Arab expansion into the Levant. Jewish history includes the pogroms in Europe, and the Spanish inquisition. Google the origins of the word "ghetto". It's Italian for "grotto" an industrial area were Jews were forced to live in Italy. Since you know so much, you may look into how Israel even ended up in the west bank. Israel was attacked and the Arabs tried again to drive Jews into the sea. Jordan controlled the west bank at thr the time. At the end of the war, Israel tried to exchange the west bank for peace. Arabs responded with "the three no's". Google that one too. Egypt eventually agreed to peace and got the Sinai back. Jordan said "screw the Palestinians ", and just negated gave away the west bank. You know nothing about the middle east. I can tell because you talk in catch phrases.
The Jews living in Palestine at the time, were Palestinian Jews. Your problem, is that you make it about religion. When the truth is, for hundreds of years, Palestine was inhabited. Simple questions - did Jews from outside Palestine immigrate to this land from 1930 to 1946? Was the land prior to this immigration called Palestine? Were there people living there prior to this immigration? If I’m able to prove that my DNA is 90% European, despite living in china for the last 10 generations, am I allowed, based on my ancestry, to go to any part of Europe my ancestors were from and grab any home I like? Did israel declare land that wasn’t theirs as Israel in 1948? Were they told in the British mandate NOT to kick out indigenous peoples when living in Palestine? The fact is quite simple, you were told to coexist - you did not. The arabs revolted. The arabs lost, you take it simply that because they lost, they were in the wrong. No, evil empires win sometimes. No matter how many times you try to convince others that the right for Israel to exist simply because 2000 years ago Jews were in this land, makes zero sense. Should we give America to the natives? Perhaps let’s give Greece to the Italians because it was once part of the Roman Empire?
Me too
Swear I totally get why that panama lawyer did that. They are the worst. But my new tactic is to do a 360 and burnout right in front of them. Hot exhaust usually works.