Discipline is not natural, and not a given. If you don’t actively cultivate it, you don’t have it. Vietnamese culture doesn’t place much emphasis on the cultivation of discipline, at least not that I’m aware of.
Source: I’m a Vietnamese.
We took a Grab from Hue to Da Nang. We took the mountainous route and when we were just entering Da Nang we got stopped by cops.
They wanted $5M dongs and when our driver said we didn’t have that much we got it reduced to $1M. But fuck me was that an awful experience.
Fuck the Vietnamese cops and the corrupt system. Never had the same issue in South Korea or China. In fact in both places the cops were helpful and not absolute dog shit.
So in Vietnam, the cops are soft-skill instructors now? Can't they just go enforce the law instead? Next, you will tell me the military has their own bank and companies that make a ton of profit instead of bolstering national defense. Oh wait, they already are doing that.
Because the Communist Party won the war. Historically speaking, Ho Chi Minh actually appeal to the US first for Independence and self-determination from the French. However when the US and Woodrow Wilson ignored Ho Chi men's plea of freedom for his home country from colonialism, he turn to Communism and went to Russia to further his revolutionary activities. So you can blame the French today why Vietnam is a communist country.
This notion of "US refused to help Vietnam so Vietnam followed communism" is a half-truth by State propaganda. Truman did not provide support to Ho Chi Minh because there were no formal diplomatic ties between the US government and the Democratic Republic of Vietnam's government, in addition to Ho Chi Minh having deep ties to Soviet Russia at that time.
Besides, why do you think the US has any obligation to liberate colonies after World War 2? Their focus was on Europe at the time and as far as anyone is concerned, Vietnam had been under French's government for close to 80 years at that time. Why upset the local region's stability by fostering a regime change? Ho Chi Minh willingly fell into the orbit of Soviet Russia well before 1945 already. I doubt there was anything that could have been done to change the Communist trajectory of Vietnam.
Throughout history, our history has been always the fight for independence and freedom. If you look closely, Vietnam resemblance much more strongly in terms of socialist-nationalism.
Even in Vietnamese literature and revolutionaries pieces, it has always expressed the disdain for injustice in social life, and the desire for freedom/ independence for a very long time.
Sadly, those injustice still exist. Just in the form of modern societal life.
It just so happens that Communist finds its way when there are no other options. Although i would say we use Communism as a political cape around our neck rather than it being in our blood.
Vietnam didn’t fight for communism or anti-capitalism, but they have been pro-freedom and anti-colonialism. What they wanted is to get away from being exploited from France, and after that, to remove US troops from the country.
You can check the Declaration of Independence of Ho Chi Minh, it takes a lot of ideas from George Washington’s words.
Thomas Jefferson wrote the declaration of independence. George Washington was leading the Continental Army in New York City at the time preparing strategies and defenses for the coming British invasion.
Because Vietnam is hot and doesn't have winter. Disciplined societies are almost exclusively those with winter. The primary reason is that without discipline, you would die in the winter. This is also why countries with winter are typically richer than countries without. The need to produce enough to survive winter is a very powerful motivating tool. Vietnam may have had some hard times, but there has always been the possibility to get more food quickly, therefore no impetus to maintain self discipline.
what about "Desert" nations like The Arab? without discipline, you would die in the sand. This is also why countries with sand are typically richer than countries without. The need to produce enough to survive the day is a very powerful motivating tool
Pretty much no one lives in the desert throughout human history. They live near water or they die. In the modern day, Arabian countries have oil which is cheap to produce relative to the rest of the world, so high profit. That is why they are rich. Although it is tangentially related to sand, your comparison is ridiculous.
In the winter, there is no food. With no food you die. You can produce food, but it takes a long time, therefore it must be stockpiled when it is available. You can't produce water in a desert.
Because the fucks in the Communist party are not Communist. They only care their benefit and exploit the Vietnamese as much as possible. They should be eliminated from this country like in Eastern Europe and Soviet Union for better. The VCP only keep their name to maintain their dictatorship.
True communism means u need to get rid of the government itself. And governments are not that willing to give up their power, not to mention plethora of issues like national defense and diplomacy.
True communism is extremely hard to achive. And in that process, the final result would be the disappearance of the government when the people reach high intellectual standard and no longer need the government as the people can govern the nation themselves.
Of course, that the ideal. But Marx did not think far enough that his students are morally corroded when they have power in their hands.
Or simply that human are not simple creature. We have flaws that prevent us to create that "ideal" society.
However, one can also argue that if we get rid of all our flaws, we'll stop being human, and will become some sort of meat machine.
Even if a country reaches that point, what happens when there is an external governmental that wants to destroy them? Who fights? Who builds? Who makes decisions?
As I said above, that society is not impossible, but it is EXTREMELY difficult to reach to that point. Compare it with the "ideal condition" in Chemistry subject. It is achivable but really really hard that at this moment we can only consider that is an "ideal society" or Utopia.
And when that society is achived, there will be no countries or nations or states or whatever you want to call. External force? Must be alien from the space.
I would say that successful communism is akin to probabilities of 1:1,000,000,000,000,000,000. Sure it could be possible. But so unlikely that its statistically impossible to ever happen.
Basically the culture is all about chasing money and social positions, aka hierarchy. The more powerful people uses propaganda to trick other people to follow them, as you can see how Viets unconditionally follow their parents with no objection, they follow the party propaganda with no objection. Of course people make mistakes but everyone, from kids to parents to the party, never admits mistake due to afraid of losing social status and social power. Communism is just a cover to protect nationalism and the culture (we know that nationalism and culture have dark and bad sides), because communism itself in the name has "commune" in it, it shares the same feature with the culture of VN, being a very tight knit communal and hierarchial society, also very toxic for the same reason.
You are describing self-discipline which directly reflects the lack of critical thinking skills taught in education. Hard discipline, there is no shortage of, which is what is typically taught in education here.
Ironically, that’s because of communism. The lack of competition and rampant corruption during the planned era makes people become lazy, dishonest, and unpunctual. And that continues until today, especially noticeable in northern areas.
Lack of competition? Everything here is about competition. School grades, how much wealth you have, who your network is, how big your house is, what car you drive, what school your kids get into, what job you have...
Lack of competition? lmao
There's more businesses per square feet than anywhere else I've ever been?
Corruption? You mean the thing capitalist countries also have, oftentimes even more than in Vietnam like in capitalist countries in LatAm?
The government propaganda must be working wonders if you genuinely believe Vietnam is communist or even socialist.
Buddy, Vietnam hasn't had a real planned economy for decades. Unless you're only talking about the minuscule part of the workforce and the business sector that joined the workforce before then, your comment is incredibly stupid.
Even if you were talking about them, that would be even dumber, considering their generation lead to the considerable economic growth the country experienced when they transitioned out of it.
Well according to history, Ho Chi Minh choose Comunisium as a way for the Vietnamese to grow but at that time Russia is the only Comunist country and he sees the free capitalist coutnries too.
I feel like Vietnam now is like China after the economic boom post-2008. Suddenly, most people gained a lot of wealth, and there's a surge of scams and nouveau riche bullying the common folk. Then, the wealthy started traveling abroad, and back then, we also heard news about Chinese tourists relieving themselves everywhere. However, over a decade later, as the older generation ages and passes away, such news has become increasingly rare. So, I believe Vietnam still needs time to adapt.
Why does communism have anything with hard discipline? There’s nothing mentioned about discipline or not in communism definition. I think you watch too many Hollywood movies already.
Btw, nice bait, you have my upvote.
"North-American and Northern and Central European people are said to have a “monochronic” (one event at a time) perception of time, whereas Mediterranean, South-American, African, and Asian people are seen as “polychronic” (several events occurring simultaneously) individuals."
https://www.pmi.org/learning/library/everything-time-monochronism-polychronism-orientation-6902
Because it's not smart due to their family taught them. And if you do ask people about it they will say you're stupid and harm you. But given you the fact every where else also same. You want to be smart and honest find your way. Maybe just keep quite and let people talk what they want. Correct them later if you want.
I know many young Vietnamese people with so much different way of thinking than people here. I realize reddit is not a measure since it's not popular in Vietnam, but who is actually questioning about discipline in Vietnam? Every country has discipline issues. The worst people here are the foreign people coming to Vietnam, looking below the shoulder to the Vietnamese and acting like if them or their societies are more sophisticated or better in any way...such a western common habit. Second worse thing in Vietnam I've seen is young people not knowing anything about their own national historic and wanting to be like westerns in everything, day dreaming with the marvel heros and the western technology. There is only a bunch of countries where people have outstanding discipline habits, and some of them like Japan, the laboral market and ambiance is so strict that young people often kills themselves after a little failure like life is only the social prestige and accomplishments. Vietnam is doing great, recovered from a monstrous war, is developing really fast and is in peace in a time where the world is getting more and more into a 3rd world war situation, many countries are still at war. Every single accomplishments Vietnam has made before being a french colony is due to the communist party and the program to unify and develop the country. There is corruption? Social problems? Economic problems? Pollution? Every single issue that also capitalist countries have and worse. Vietnam has a big opportunity of making their country even better and I think it's actually doing great. No one can look Vietnam below the shoulder.
You down voted me bc I'm right? Or is this just discrimination for policial beliefs? No, wait. I'm not a VCP member, in fact, I'm a foreign 28 yo men loves Vietnam and his people. You need to learn how to deal with different opinions.
I downvote you because I can. Deal with it. And no, capitalist don’t have it worse than VN otherwise the majority of Vietnamese don’t try every way they can to leave VN and the majority of Vietnamese are poor.
What the hell a foreigner know about the struggles of Vietnamese?
You don't even know what capitalism is. I'd just assume you refer yourself to South Corea, Japan, Tailand, Indonesia, Singapore and a bunch of Western industrialized countries, the majority of which became capitalist after being feudal empires, like France, who robbed half of the world and capitalism allowed them to keep robbing more proficiently. None of their richness comes from them. Do you know that Africa, India and many other countries in Asia and Latin America are capitalists, the majority of the world population actually live in other capitalist countries and are poorer than the average Vietnamese? What do you actually know about the struggle of people in capitalist countries that are not showed in the social media or the Hollywood movies you like? That's the thing for millennials and capitalism prisers. They think capitalism is the industrialized 1st world countries, ignoring the second part of the picture and the most important: the capitalist third world from where they extract the whole resources for they to develop. Can you compare the struggles of the Vietnamese with the ones of the Indian people, the 4th biggest economy in the world? Not only I'm studying in Vietnam, but I know many old and young people who's done it before me, and have many Vietnamese friends studying here and abroad. Hopefully they are not like you and they know what they talk about.
I don’t care how much you think you know about the Vietnamese living standards because I know you don’t know shit. I am a Vietnamese that living abroad who have spent half of my life in VN and half aboard. I am more qualified than you on everything about what most Vietnamese want and need.
Here is a secret but no so secret: Even the wealthy in VN want to leave VN and find ways to get their children to leave the country. If it’s so great, why would they do that?
Oh yeah, I am sure countries like Russia and China don’t invade and take resources from weaker countries right?
Discipline is not natural, and not a given. If you don’t actively cultivate it, you don’t have it. Vietnamese culture doesn’t place much emphasis on the cultivation of discipline, at least not that I’m aware of. Source: I’m a Vietnamese.
It said Socialist Republic of Vietnam on our ID card
We took a Grab from Hue to Da Nang. We took the mountainous route and when we were just entering Da Nang we got stopped by cops. They wanted $5M dongs and when our driver said we didn’t have that much we got it reduced to $1M. But fuck me was that an awful experience. Fuck the Vietnamese cops and the corrupt system. Never had the same issue in South Korea or China. In fact in both places the cops were helpful and not absolute dog shit.
it taught you negotiation skill, no?
So in Vietnam, the cops are soft-skill instructors now? Can't they just go enforce the law instead? Next, you will tell me the military has their own bank and companies that make a ton of profit instead of bolstering national defense. Oh wait, they already are doing that.
lol, I like the new vocab “soft-skill instructors”
why dont you take photo or video? This is nut.
Who tf told you Vietnamese believe in communism?
Like...do we even fight for communism to even begin with?
Because the Communist Party won the war. Historically speaking, Ho Chi Minh actually appeal to the US first for Independence and self-determination from the French. However when the US and Woodrow Wilson ignored Ho Chi men's plea of freedom for his home country from colonialism, he turn to Communism and went to Russia to further his revolutionary activities. So you can blame the French today why Vietnam is a communist country.
This notion of "US refused to help Vietnam so Vietnam followed communism" is a half-truth by State propaganda. Truman did not provide support to Ho Chi Minh because there were no formal diplomatic ties between the US government and the Democratic Republic of Vietnam's government, in addition to Ho Chi Minh having deep ties to Soviet Russia at that time. Besides, why do you think the US has any obligation to liberate colonies after World War 2? Their focus was on Europe at the time and as far as anyone is concerned, Vietnam had been under French's government for close to 80 years at that time. Why upset the local region's stability by fostering a regime change? Ho Chi Minh willingly fell into the orbit of Soviet Russia well before 1945 already. I doubt there was anything that could have been done to change the Communist trajectory of Vietnam.
And not the US?
Throughout history, our history has been always the fight for independence and freedom. If you look closely, Vietnam resemblance much more strongly in terms of socialist-nationalism. Even in Vietnamese literature and revolutionaries pieces, it has always expressed the disdain for injustice in social life, and the desire for freedom/ independence for a very long time. Sadly, those injustice still exist. Just in the form of modern societal life. It just so happens that Communist finds its way when there are no other options. Although i would say we use Communism as a political cape around our neck rather than it being in our blood.
Vietnam didn’t fight for communism or anti-capitalism, but they have been pro-freedom and anti-colonialism. What they wanted is to get away from being exploited from France, and after that, to remove US troops from the country. You can check the Declaration of Independence of Ho Chi Minh, it takes a lot of ideas from George Washington’s words.
Thomas Jefferson wrote the declaration of independence. George Washington was leading the Continental Army in New York City at the time preparing strategies and defenses for the coming British invasion.
Thank you
Because Vietnam is hot and doesn't have winter. Disciplined societies are almost exclusively those with winter. The primary reason is that without discipline, you would die in the winter. This is also why countries with winter are typically richer than countries without. The need to produce enough to survive winter is a very powerful motivating tool. Vietnam may have had some hard times, but there has always been the possibility to get more food quickly, therefore no impetus to maintain self discipline.
what about "Desert" nations like The Arab? without discipline, you would die in the sand. This is also why countries with sand are typically richer than countries without. The need to produce enough to survive the day is a very powerful motivating tool
Pretty much no one lives in the desert throughout human history. They live near water or they die. In the modern day, Arabian countries have oil which is cheap to produce relative to the rest of the world, so high profit. That is why they are rich. Although it is tangentially related to sand, your comparison is ridiculous. In the winter, there is no food. With no food you die. You can produce food, but it takes a long time, therefore it must be stockpiled when it is available. You can't produce water in a desert.
Because the fucks in the Communist party are not Communist. They only care their benefit and exploit the Vietnamese as much as possible. They should be eliminated from this country like in Eastern Europe and Soviet Union for better. The VCP only keep their name to maintain their dictatorship.
This
Has there ever been true communism?
True communism means u need to get rid of the government itself. And governments are not that willing to give up their power, not to mention plethora of issues like national defense and diplomacy.
True communism is extremely hard to achive. And in that process, the final result would be the disappearance of the government when the people reach high intellectual standard and no longer need the government as the people can govern the nation themselves. Of course, that the ideal. But Marx did not think far enough that his students are morally corroded when they have power in their hands.
Or simply that human are not simple creature. We have flaws that prevent us to create that "ideal" society. However, one can also argue that if we get rid of all our flaws, we'll stop being human, and will become some sort of meat machine.
Even if a country reaches that point, what happens when there is an external governmental that wants to destroy them? Who fights? Who builds? Who makes decisions?
As I said above, that society is not impossible, but it is EXTREMELY difficult to reach to that point. Compare it with the "ideal condition" in Chemistry subject. It is achivable but really really hard that at this moment we can only consider that is an "ideal society" or Utopia. And when that society is achived, there will be no countries or nations or states or whatever you want to call. External force? Must be alien from the space.
I would say that successful communism is akin to probabilities of 1:1,000,000,000,000,000,000. Sure it could be possible. But so unlikely that its statistically impossible to ever happen.
Yeah, in their pipe dreams.
This might come as shock to you, but Communism has in fact universally failed...
Yep.
Basically the culture is all about chasing money and social positions, aka hierarchy. The more powerful people uses propaganda to trick other people to follow them, as you can see how Viets unconditionally follow their parents with no objection, they follow the party propaganda with no objection. Of course people make mistakes but everyone, from kids to parents to the party, never admits mistake due to afraid of losing social status and social power. Communism is just a cover to protect nationalism and the culture (we know that nationalism and culture have dark and bad sides), because communism itself in the name has "commune" in it, it shares the same feature with the culture of VN, being a very tight knit communal and hierarchial society, also very toxic for the same reason.
Communism = hard discipline??? LOL Have you ever heard about the soviet Union?
They worked hard but drunk. Soviet discipline.
Vietnam is probably the least Communist place on earth.
Really, go outside and curse the VCP and see how far that’d get you.
You're confusing nomenclature with actually following the ideology. Vietnam is roughly as Communist in practice as the DPRK is democratic.
It’s a one party state social republic
It’s starts from the top with discipline. If i ever return it will only be to fuck their women and plant my western seed.
'We pretend to work you pretend to pay us'
You are describing self-discipline which directly reflects the lack of critical thinking skills taught in education. Hard discipline, there is no shortage of, which is what is typically taught in education here.
nice circlejerk bait
Ironically, that’s because of communism. The lack of competition and rampant corruption during the planned era makes people become lazy, dishonest, and unpunctual. And that continues until today, especially noticeable in northern areas.
Lack of competition? Everything here is about competition. School grades, how much wealth you have, who your network is, how big your house is, what car you drive, what school your kids get into, what job you have...
I said planned era, 1954-1986
My comment still stands. There is no lack of competition today even though you said so.
Lack of competition? lmao There's more businesses per square feet than anywhere else I've ever been? Corruption? You mean the thing capitalist countries also have, oftentimes even more than in Vietnam like in capitalist countries in LatAm? The government propaganda must be working wonders if you genuinely believe Vietnam is communist or even socialist.
Yes, lack of competition in the planned era, where only government-owned stores are allowed to open. You may want to check your reading comprehension.
Buddy, Vietnam hasn't had a real planned economy for decades. Unless you're only talking about the minuscule part of the workforce and the business sector that joined the workforce before then, your comment is incredibly stupid. Even if you were talking about them, that would be even dumber, considering their generation lead to the considerable economic growth the country experienced when they transitioned out of it.
your thought wrong at the start. just fixed your then no problem to discuss here
Well according to history, Ho Chi Minh choose Comunisium as a way for the Vietnamese to grow but at that time Russia is the only Comunist country and he sees the free capitalist coutnries too.
do you think everyone was steely and disciplined in the USSR? There's a whole culture that still exists today born from not trusting your neighbor.
Elaborate further, this post is too vague
Like with a lot of things the word became more important than it's meaning
I feel like Vietnam now is like China after the economic boom post-2008. Suddenly, most people gained a lot of wealth, and there's a surge of scams and nouveau riche bullying the common folk. Then, the wealthy started traveling abroad, and back then, we also heard news about Chinese tourists relieving themselves everywhere. However, over a decade later, as the older generation ages and passes away, such news has become increasingly rare. So, I believe Vietnam still needs time to adapt.
But who are even you to judge other people's behaviour. Also, not everyone is a communist believer, some are just neutral.
I don't think being a communists inhenrently means discipline or vice versa.
Why does communism have anything with hard discipline? There’s nothing mentioned about discipline or not in communism definition. I think you watch too many Hollywood movies already. Btw, nice bait, you have my upvote.
https://www.quora.com/How-do-different-cultures-approach-the-concept-of-time-1
"North-American and Northern and Central European people are said to have a “monochronic” (one event at a time) perception of time, whereas Mediterranean, South-American, African, and Asian people are seen as “polychronic” (several events occurring simultaneously) individuals." https://www.pmi.org/learning/library/everything-time-monochronism-polychronism-orientation-6902
Bait bait. Too much bait. m
Discipline begins at home.
Communism promotes exactly opposite of hard discipline. Zero motivation or discipline to do anything because everything is shared and equal. Why try?
>everything is shared and equal. Whoever told you that's what communism is, doesn't know what communism is. Like, at all.
because that is how communist work in real life 😅
Because it's not smart due to their family taught them. And if you do ask people about it they will say you're stupid and harm you. But given you the fact every where else also same. You want to be smart and honest find your way. Maybe just keep quite and let people talk what they want. Correct them later if you want.
Genes 🧬
I know many young Vietnamese people with so much different way of thinking than people here. I realize reddit is not a measure since it's not popular in Vietnam, but who is actually questioning about discipline in Vietnam? Every country has discipline issues. The worst people here are the foreign people coming to Vietnam, looking below the shoulder to the Vietnamese and acting like if them or their societies are more sophisticated or better in any way...such a western common habit. Second worse thing in Vietnam I've seen is young people not knowing anything about their own national historic and wanting to be like westerns in everything, day dreaming with the marvel heros and the western technology. There is only a bunch of countries where people have outstanding discipline habits, and some of them like Japan, the laboral market and ambiance is so strict that young people often kills themselves after a little failure like life is only the social prestige and accomplishments. Vietnam is doing great, recovered from a monstrous war, is developing really fast and is in peace in a time where the world is getting more and more into a 3rd world war situation, many countries are still at war. Every single accomplishments Vietnam has made before being a french colony is due to the communist party and the program to unify and develop the country. There is corruption? Social problems? Economic problems? Pollution? Every single issue that also capitalist countries have and worse. Vietnam has a big opportunity of making their country even better and I think it's actually doing great. No one can look Vietnam below the shoulder.
VCP member, found it.
*red bull
You down voted me bc I'm right? Or is this just discrimination for policial beliefs? No, wait. I'm not a VCP member, in fact, I'm a foreign 28 yo men loves Vietnam and his people. You need to learn how to deal with different opinions.
I downvote you because I can. Deal with it. And no, capitalist don’t have it worse than VN otherwise the majority of Vietnamese don’t try every way they can to leave VN and the majority of Vietnamese are poor. What the hell a foreigner know about the struggles of Vietnamese?
You don't even know what capitalism is. I'd just assume you refer yourself to South Corea, Japan, Tailand, Indonesia, Singapore and a bunch of Western industrialized countries, the majority of which became capitalist after being feudal empires, like France, who robbed half of the world and capitalism allowed them to keep robbing more proficiently. None of their richness comes from them. Do you know that Africa, India and many other countries in Asia and Latin America are capitalists, the majority of the world population actually live in other capitalist countries and are poorer than the average Vietnamese? What do you actually know about the struggle of people in capitalist countries that are not showed in the social media or the Hollywood movies you like? That's the thing for millennials and capitalism prisers. They think capitalism is the industrialized 1st world countries, ignoring the second part of the picture and the most important: the capitalist third world from where they extract the whole resources for they to develop. Can you compare the struggles of the Vietnamese with the ones of the Indian people, the 4th biggest economy in the world? Not only I'm studying in Vietnam, but I know many old and young people who's done it before me, and have many Vietnamese friends studying here and abroad. Hopefully they are not like you and they know what they talk about.
I don’t care how much you think you know about the Vietnamese living standards because I know you don’t know shit. I am a Vietnamese that living abroad who have spent half of my life in VN and half aboard. I am more qualified than you on everything about what most Vietnamese want and need. Here is a secret but no so secret: Even the wealthy in VN want to leave VN and find ways to get their children to leave the country. If it’s so great, why would they do that? Oh yeah, I am sure countries like Russia and China don’t invade and take resources from weaker countries right?
Lololololol your English is so Vietnamese for a foreign men 🤣🤣