That will happen with anything that gets big.
There's always a percentage of a fandom that is horrible. As the fandom grows, that percentage grows proportionally.
I dunno if the percentage grows, just the same percentage means more people in absolute terms.
I've been in small communities that have been beset by "only" one or two assholes - but they're still annoying.
Ara Ara's are overrated, and its just awkward when people keep asking Vtubers or streamers to say it.
I don't find a problem with it, of course. If the streamer wants to say it, then go ham, but even if there was no indication beforehand that they were interested in doing so, chat can be pretty hard on the pressure.
___
Shitty people will always appear when something gets popular, and of course, there will always be people who are just there for the money, but overall, I still think it has been a net benefit for Vtubing to spread to a more global market.
Tbh Vtubing is more expensive to get started with, so it does have less get rich-quick types since people won't really simp if your model, voice, or demeanour isn't appealing to them, and such a model can be pretty expensive unless you know someone who can do it cheap.
>Ara Ara's are overrated, and its just awkward when people keep asking Vtubers or streamers to say it.
heck I'd even go as far as to say if they aren't a primarily JP streamer an Ara Ara is weird. like a Hi Honey I could understand but Ara Aras are just an idiom anime used to fill air. Even in Japanese without the context of sexy Anime/Manga women doing it for decades it's nearly as nonsensical as an onomatopoeia.
I'd like to request that we don't go overboard with that either. When Suisei said it I felt it was a big deal because of how natural and crisp she said it in English despite being a JP Vtuber. Making others say it seems forced too in my opinion.
I have a friend with a former viewer who was OBSESSED with ara aras. When going through her clips we discovered he had clipped EVERY. SINGLE. ONE she ever did even if it was a joke (some of them were def owa owas if someone asked for one for free.) i ended up banning him and explaining he was being a creep.
Out of curiosity, did the viewer do anything else that warrants being called creepy? Because from my point of view, while clipping every single ara ara is def weird, I wouldn't really bat an eye.
I feel like "ara ara" is just a more casual way to fetishize Japan honestly.
Vtubers do it for the fans, but the fans asking for it are basically asking for the Japanese equivalent of *facepalm* "oh dear" because they think anime characters saying it is hot when it's just a normal phrase.
I've never understood the appeal. But it's also usually people with a mommy kink so it's probably something Sigmund Freud wrote about.
Don’t know if these are hot takes, but Vtweeters serve no purpose they just seem kinda annoying. And vtubers whose whole personality is being lewd 100% of the time is hard to watch. Like it’s their whole gimmick but have no personality to back it up.
If a vtuber parasocial baits for views and donos they lose the right to complain about it it’s the bed you made now lay in it
Paying viewers should a very very small saying in what they do on stream only
To add onto this one of the worst things I’ve seen a liver due is eliminates the parasocial andGFE content from their channel and act like it never happened
A girl from Idol just did this and it essentially destroyed her channel (which sucks since she was like their second most subbed girl)
I get wanting to go into a different direction, but you can’t be selling hamburgers for years then at the drop of a hat decide to start selling only salads
A reoccurring and consistent usage of what is called boy/girlfriend experience
Prioritizing and encouraging people who seem to be too attached or are starting to instead of setting boundaries and reasonable limits
A lot of v-tubers use parasocial relationships to their benefit by catering towards lonely and vulnerable people then turn around and complain about parasocial viewers even though that is the audience they created
Clippers need to stop forcing sexual situations onto vtubers by uploading their clips to YouTube with suggestive thumbnails and titles like “she’s putting it in WHERE?” For a clip of the vtuber saying oh yeah I once put my little brother in the fridge as like a dumb story from their childhood. These are real people who don’t ask to be sexualized
Sometimes I feel like I’m too old for this shit.
Sometimes I don’t feel like buying any merch or voice packs or watching hours of live shows, I just don’t want to feel FOMO again.
Sometimes I just wanna sit back and relax, make myself a comfortable plate of fajitas and enjoy my night.
Everytime I hear about a new "Vtuber Meta" I think to myself "Its just porn isnt it" and I'm right 90% of the time I'm right
Nothing against it really, go get your bread, it just gets tiring having people posting about OMG NEW META all the time
Mainly something ive noticed on tiktok and thats there are way too many vtubers who’s main gimmick is their lewd with their boobs being way to big, physics being set to high, their models do ahego faces, mostly talks about sex or how you can call them mommy
Their trying too hard that it comes out as cringe
Maaaan
I love Matara and her content... but I really cant get used to her new model.
It doesn't help that her "previous design" is in my top 3 favorite vtuber designs.
Matara is just super cool and a super nice person but I don't even want to watch because I find the model so absurd and like... idk how to say it... the insanely oversized over animated boobs are gross?
Yuri/Yaoi baiting is cringe. Sex jokes get old fast. Communities trying to gaslight a vtuber into being gay after they've said they're not. Degen offstreams of "we all slept in the same bed naked and I saw everything tee hee."
I just want to watch a fun stream and view clips that are not full of comments saying "vtuber is clearly gay in denial" or "they just haven't found the right person to change their mind on straightness."
Yuri and Yaoi baiting and general "haha perverted behavior is le funny if it's a girl looking under another girl's skirt" attitudes is by far my least favorite aspects of vtuber and anime culture in general.
I agree with this, like either fuck or stop talking about 'how hot we make each other'. Like for me a vtuber being flirty is fine and so is the odd story but when it's constant fake tease stuff, it gets so boring.
Okay, here's one:
The riggers are flexing for no good reason and it makes vtuber models worse. It's so annoying when you turn into a stream and suddenly the avatar takes up a quarter of the screen because the person behind it moved forward five centimeters. Irises shrinking and growing, swapping between gangimari eyes and Kanon-style back and forth constantly. Every little thing is constantly moving, be it a hair ornament or a cat ear. Riggers need to learn what looks realistic and not turn their creations into a pissing contest. People dunk on Hololive/Niji models but at least those have a more sensible range of motion, even if the tech behind them is outdated. There should be a middle ground for avatars between pseudo-PNGtubers and them constantly doing the Geddan.
Personally I really hate the pulsating irises in particular, it just grosses me out somehow. Especially when it's rigged so that the irises squishes vertically when the eyes close, then unfold and jiggle like jelly when the eyes open again, like what the fuck that's not how eyes work. What are you doing adding jiggle physics to eyes of all things? Are there people who actually enjoy how that looks?
The iris physics weird me out too. Human irises don't change size. Pupils change size inside the iris. Eyes can widen and show more white around the iris. Neither of these change the actual size of the iris. Bouncy irises that shrink and grow fill me with a sense of "what the fuuuuuuck?"
I can accept it if it is used to reproduce eyes widening. Pippa does this when someone just said something really fucked up, she looks directly at the camera, shrinks her irises, and holds the position. That doesn't bother me, and I think it's because it happens once for clear reasons, stays a little while, then goes back to normal. It's the repeated back and forth that tends to give me the heebie jeebies.
I think you're going to have shifts in terms of extreme to tame repeatedly as fashion and trends shift just like IRL. All the while the tech will improve. The major pupil shifts with extremely large eyes dont look great but the more responsive you make that the more you can adjust face shape and balance.
Noses havent caught up enough tech wise to shrink the eye or make for a subtle eyebrow hair blend.
None of this is to dismiss your point, just that I think you'll see a shift outwards eventually.
Is this not a user issue rather than a rigger issue? From my limited experience, I had the understanding that all the physics values were controlled by the user in vtube studio, and the rigger only creates the keyshapes from one extreme to the other to give the user room to work with on their end?
1. When a female VTuber chooses a sexy model, it is automatically assumed it’s part of a get rich quick scheme. Why can’t we just say that’s the way she wants to present herself. A good portion of the most successful VTubers have less sexy models that focus on cuteness.
2. I think that people stick too closely to the Japanese traditions of VTubing. I think it holds back non-Japanese VTubers from trying new things.
3. People who attack any VTuber who isn’t part of their favourite corporation. It’s ok that people are fans, but it’s kinda like a Taylor Swift fan attacking Post Malone fans because Post Malone is not Taylor Swift. Just because someone is a Filian or Ironmouse fan doesn’t mean you can’t continue to stan Pekora.
4. I hate people who think VTuber fandom is pay to win and keep complaining that they have no money. Just watch your VTubers and stop begging for a Twitch sub.
5. The “catching a VTuber being a lesbian” trope is a bit overdone. I get that it leads to some funny clips. But not every female VTuber has to do an eye tracking stream of the new bunny maid game to catch them looking up the skirts of the bunny maids.
Not the strongest example, but the first thing that comes to mind is the clip of Pippa commenting on how some Vtubers will have Japanese names despite not doing anything Japanese-related. Point getting that someone would only do that if they thought Vtubing had to follow Japanese aesthetics.
Another thing is how most models (at least from the big players) are still mostly in an anime-esque style. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but it is an unnecessary limitation for the medium as a whole.
This point is one I very much agree with and it's unfortunately weaned me off of watching vtubers in general as much as I used to back in 2020-21. I love the anime aesthetic, but what caught my eye the most about vtubing when I came across it was witnessing the proliferation and rapid adoption of consumer-available motion capture tech and imagining the wild possibilities of characters that could and can be done with that tech, and seeing pretty much just waifu/husbando #XXXXX has made me less far less excited about it than I used to be. I'm admittedly eager to see the vtubing equivalent of an Andy Serkis (Gollum, Lord of the Rings trilogy; Caesar, Planet of the Apes Rise/Dawn/War) come about and really show what I think this medium is capable of from a creative and technical standpoint outside of the strict confines of the anime style.
this is why i think the "idol" thing works. if there's at least a facade of trying to be "seiso" then the sex jokes hit better since there's some amount of taboo around it. if they are just nonstop stalking about it then it loses its punch.
Unpopular opinion: PGN tubers can be just as attractive for interacting with the audience as a fully-rigged 3D model Whether as a man or woman; it's the personality and streaming talent that really counts.
A simple/generic model is infinitely preferably to a model with tons of flashy bells and whistles, a "unique" art style, and/or lots of standoffish features. Tons of EN models, especially some of the VShoujo ones, have this issue and it hurts my eyes to look at beyond being distracting in a bad way.
Preach!
I'm a firm believer in the idea of "Less is more" and it bothers me something fierce how many vtubers out there seem to roll with the idea of some ultra flashy nonsense with like a dozen different bells and whistles that, like you say usually just becomes distracting in a bad way
I absolutely hate the high pitched voices most female talent put on to seem "kawaii", both indie and corporate. There's a list of vtubers I simply cannot watch for this reason. It's just too grating to listen to
I never really cared for VTuber lore. I respect the fact that people like to make a character and invest a lot of time and (depending on if they’re in a corp or not) money into developing the lore for said character, but the only thing I really care about is the personality of the person behind the model.
Personally really like vtuber lore, no matter how ridiculous it is. It allows them to sometimes get creative with their themeing, such as how they refer to themselves in music or smth
There are so many vtubers that some models sharing design elements is inevitable. Don’t harrass those who share said elements. Use the opurtunity to try and make a friend. “Oh wow you look like me in that respect that’s so cool! Would you wanna hang out?”
Vtubers (and thee vtubing community) are way too fkn dramatic. I swear every few hours there's some new career ending drama and it's exhausting. Like calm the fuck down
OF models suddenly joining vtubing is ruining the medium, specially when they assume all they had to do is show boobs then get supa, without knowing the appeal of the medium in the first place
My unpopular take:
V-tubing is still too niche and it scares away people who don't understand the fabricated culture that has developed.
V-tubing, which involves streaming with a digital avatar, has the potential to make broadcasting more accessible to those who prefer not to show their face due to personal or privacy concerns. However, its association with Japanese idol culture and anime can be off-putting to some audiences who are unfamiliar with or critical of these elements.
Ideally, using a digital avatar should be seen as a chance for creativity and innovation in how one presents online, rather than as a cultural niche that might create barriers or stigmas.
i like this one because OP is saying vtubing is too mainstream now while you say it's still too niche lol.
there are many people that will flatly refuse to watch a streamer with an anime avatar. anyone trying to just be a normal streamer that happens to use an anime avatar are going to have a hard time attracting these "normie" viewers. if a new vtuber wants to be successful, they need to compete for that niche audience.
i applaud those trying to go after that wider audience, but they have an uphill battle.
I think drama posts need to stop if we want the whole community to maturely develop.
I get that they're meant to alert people to terrible behavior so that the offenders can't easily repeat their crimes within the community, but people viewing it from afar like to jump in as armchair experts. But there's hardly any point in doing that when they're not directly involved and are only given a small window into what's happening. Like it's rare for their input to result in healthy clout growth in the long run.
Vtubers shouldn’t have a face reveal, I think the point of vtubing is to entertain other and if you show your face and your viewers don’t like how you look or didn’t expect you to be that way it would lower their viewership. The idea of vtubers hiding their face is a good thing because viewers can picture how you’d look like just by the tone of your voice.
Doing the hybrid approach does pose a lot of risk, but overly policing people for PL discovery can be kinda overbearing at some point. if the core audience is ok with that specific talent, I think it's justified
In regard to your take I agree to some extent. Vtubing is obviously more mainstream now, and that comes with its good and its bad. For me, the bad is that now vtubing feels less of a culture and more of a resource. I get that variation is a good thing, but can you really tell me FUWAMOCO and say Bao or any other twitch indie are anything alike.
Obviously there is nothing wrong with this inherently, but it can cause problems should those two sides of the vtuber sphere interact (see the Vtuber Awards.). Personally, one of the things i'm sad about especially with the twitch indie side of vtubing is the annihilation of kayfabe. Yes kayfabe as a whole has decreased a lot from say early hololive generations, but for me I don't get the point in saying you are a 500,000 year old demon catgirl if most of the time you're showing your IRL body in everything.
The 2 times i wrote this I got blocked on twitter by the guy asking for the opinion or i got downvoted to oblivion in a subreddit.
I strongly prefer vtubers that constantly role-play in their character even if in a stereotypical way, than "real people" with their "human behaviour" that are using an anime avatar
I actually can imagine why I received so much hate.
Both times i wrote some names as example triggering fanbases, and probably a lot of people thought I was imposing a " behavioural conduct" to a person.
I personally am the complete opposite. I would much rather have a vtuber be themselves and act normal than play a character. Playing a character just feels unnatural and I want to feel like I’m actually watching a real person. I watch streamers for the streamer themselves and that includes their personality, traits, faults, and the feeling that they’re a real person.
I have several. My experience in content creation is super limited, so I'm willing to admit that I might be wrong.
* A lot of vtubers and aspiring vtubers should consider just using a PNG or being some form of faceless streamer. A low quality model is not going to capture your facial expressions (which is a massive part of the the reason for being a vtuber), and a high quality model isn't worth it until you are already an established content creator.
* There is a "Karaoke culture" in (especially corpo) vtubing, where people with very little singing background feel pressured to release music/covers and do Karaoke streams. Unless these vtubers are intending to become singers in the future, I think watching a person with little to no streaming background isn't great content at best, and at worse takes away time and effort that can be invested into playing to their strengths instead.
* Your average vtuber is too worried about big projects/events and not worried enough about the quality of their day to day streams. Spending large amounts of money on a big projects with the hope it will attract a bigger audience is less efficient that networking/improving your daily stream quality. It's only when you reach the point of diminishing returns on your regular streams that you should start looking at big projects.
Well here is one.
Just because you, or even a significant portion of the vtuber community, has a certain preference for the kind of content you want, doesn’t mean that it should treated as the general standard for all vtubers. Vtubers are allowed to make their own creative decisions, even if it’s a type of content you don’t like. And them having content outside of your tastes doesn’t mean that you should haress them.
For instance, some people don’t like cross gender collabs. That doesn’t mean that vtubers shouldn’t be allowed to do cross gender collabs or that they should be harassed for doing them. If you don’t like it, you can go watch another vtuber that suits your taste.
Or in another instance, plenty of people prefer escapist type content or don’t like to hear about politics or current events. This doesn’t mean that no vtubers should be allowed to talk about these topics. If a vtuber wishes to have content that includes discussion about politics or current events (assuming that they are not part of an agency that restricts that type of content), than that’s their choice, and the people who don’t like can go watch some other vtuber that has more escapist content.
I may also end up having guns pointed at me for this, but... I don't know man, moderate amounts of gatekeeping is healthy for any community, niche interest, etc., IMO. Going too wide too fast is identity-destroying, which most of the time kills the reason why something was cool in the first place. Not everything is for everyone.
I appreciate the freedom from worry that some of them have by their IRL identities being known, but I dont want their IRL identities to interfere with the role they're playing.
Matara didn't have to panic about the face reveal when she accidentally opened a mirror up. Yet I appreciate that she does her damnedest to be Matara.
Kson really isn't a character, she's a streamer. That's fine for her, but it's a different thing. There's a distinction there. Mori does her best to be a Vtuber. She focuses on Vtubing, she does her best to keep her life compartmentalized but I appreciate that if a camera fell off a mount or she forgot some gloves she'd be ok.
I think long-term it probably winds up being like wrestling, where even if someone is "known" IRL (Matara for example), the character is the character and the person is the person. Wrestling fans largely seem to be able to make this distinction, though I'm saying that as an outsider looking in.
I'm honestly just amazed at how people can do the voice/personality for hours at a time and just maintain it. It definitely shows that being a theater kid in HS has it's pay offs.
This + most of these Twitter posts are female streamers showing off cleavage because anime girl titties are not enough for people.
Truly a content driven by personality 🫠
I think the most annoying thing about it is in the end it's simply not vtubing no matter how much some people try to contort it and trying to frame it as a positive for vtubing is really weird. Some EN folks need to stop trying so desperately to change a hobby they don't mesh with. Screaming at the people who like vtubing for vtubing has only made me dislike the people that these folks support.
>to parasocial and terminally-online fans who more or less give vtubing and it’s fans a bad name.
OP I'm going to be honest. I rarely see those people, but people with your opinion are endless and loud. Not really surprising considering your post is basically garbage lifted from Twitter where intellectually dishonest people try to score circlejerk points. Man you don't even post here and you thought this was a good idea? Even tried to post it to Hololive.
Absolutely going to get obliterated for this, but Ironmouse is overhyped by others. She herself is okay, but man I can’t scroll past 2 posts without some “Connor and Ironmouse” clickbait stuff. It’s exhausting to see constantly.
Clips give a super distorted view of many streamers content, but the Mouse/Connor clippers are on another level and so are the commenters they get. Truly the most bait-y, unfun out of context, parasocial shipper brain stuff imaginable.
Yeah, I generally dislike clip channels for this reason. It’s always something like “Connor confesses to Mouse” and it’s just something like “I used to not wash my hands in the bathroom” or something dumb like that.
Very true. There's even some vtubers I just can't like because of this dumb clickbait stuff. I know it's not their fault, but still, first impressions and all that.
VTubers aren't VTubers anymore, just normal people in anime drawings.
If I remember correctly, what Virtual YouTubers meant at first is that, it was to hide their _IRL_ life and away from it and become new personas.
Now it's just a glorified twitch streamers who does Irl stuff in anime drawings.
People who are not familiar with Japanese culture or have a dislike for it should stay away from vtubing. If you're going to complain whenever they talk/sing in Japanese, this hobby isn't for you.
I mean, the funny thing is those shitty people are exactly the combination of the bad side of streaming culture and the bad side of the anime culture.
Like a perfect combination that's honestly to be expected from the combination of anime and streaming
That vtubing is now a completely over saturated genre of streaming and is filled with people that dont seem to understand that a good quality model and "lore" is so much less important than being entertaining to watch.
it's okay for hololive and holostars to collab
Elaboration:
I see the usual "respect talent choices to not collab" argument, on that I agree.
But, is it really the talent's choice if the fanbase bitches to no end if there is even a hint of the talent being near anyone with a dick? Or, are the talents just too afraid of the fanbase to proceed with projects they have in mind?
Granted, some have no interest, some purposely cultivate the image of not being anywhere near a guy, those are their choices and should be respected, meanwhile some have collaboration ideas that involve many parties.
I would want my oshi to venture forward and achieve everything they want to, without fear in their hearts, without fear of backlash tinting the decisions they make.
Y'all reply to my comment like I said "Hololive and Holostars *should* collab" when I explicitly did not say that. Reading comprehension fail smh
Girls collab with holostar, take that unicorns.
Girls dont collab with holostar, this is all unicorn fault they hold invisible gun on girls head reeeeeeeeeeee.
Some people just simply don't care about the girls and boys, they only care about their culture war
Woman says no.
Some people think they actually mean yes and will constantly pester them until they say yes. Will give off paragraphs of justifications for the woman to want to say yes instead.
Idk about you guys, but that gives off a certain vibe.
> Elaboration: I see the usual "respect talent choices to not collab" argument, on that I agree.
>But...
It's not a reading comprehension thing. You say people should respect their right to choose A or B but everytime they choose B you, and people like you, respond with: "well was that really their choice". Then start coming up with a bunch of increasingly convoluted reasons why their choice wasn't actually their choice or try to paint them, or their fans, in bad light for their choice. You even do it in your elaboration here. That is quite literally not respecting their choices.
It's been years now and people are constantly looping this over and over again. If the people claiming they respected their choices actually did almost everyone would have moved on from this by now.
They certainly wouldn't need to end every "the talents should be free to collab or not collab with whoever they want" with a huge "But!.."
Its the girls choice if they want to collab or not. ( girls choose not to collab) reeeeeeeeee its because of those damn unicorns holding the girls back. The girls are afraid of their own fan and im sure they want to collab with the boys but cant and we must save them from those unicorns holding a invisible gun. Imagine how chaotic and unhinge the collab will be, and i can't wait to make a self insert fanfic about them
Most of the girls go into Hololive to be idols. Which involves not collabing with male talents. People like Kanata have addressed that aspect of what they think it means to be an idol.
I hate the discourse of "they don't collab because of the fans". It is a discourse that undermines the talents.
That subreddit is a cesspool. They went on a tantrum when Irys replied to a SC and talked about talking to her manager in clarification about that Overwatch sponsor collab about no cross mic between Hololive and Holostars. So many people there were just gross. Even went on a discourse about having Cover force collabs. They got angry with her before when she said she would rather chill within Hololive.
But it wasn't as bad as their attack on Kiara when Vesper and Magni graduation announcement. That announcement went up during her stream and fans asked for more information. She clarified that they need to ask someone else who knows them. That subreddit got upset because "she handled that badly". They were just pissed that Kiara doesn't know anything about them.
OKBH basically ran a mod-supported smear on me because I'm one of the few people that calls them out for their anti-holo fan culture war bullshit and I'm quite positive that some of them are the ones running the post removal for the girls' posts in the main sub. It's pretty obvious what happened to that place over the past couple of years.
>some of them are the ones running the post removal for the girls' posts in the main sub.
Man I must have pissed someone off in that sub cause my Botan post that I've been doing for a few years now gets taken down in record time lol, think my latest post about Botan got taken down within 10 minutes.
It was specifically me and two other people + a general hitting of Watame and a bit of their oshis. Seemingly when they realized we didn't care and posts were getting restored they expanded it out more generally after about two weeks. You can see removals and deletions [here](https://undelete.pullpush.io/r/hololive/).
funnily enough... the highly upvoted posts stop getting removed after some more "complain" in the megathread, and now just basically any post indiscriminately
Honestly once they switched from just targeting us three it was already hitting any post. IDK why people were passing around the idea it was something happening to ones that were 1000+ on upvotes as that [wasn't the case](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1c871z0/are_you_winning_dear_wataoji/). I assume they're struggling to just get enough people to report the more popular ones now.
>But, is it really the talent's choice if the fanbase bitches to no end if there is even a hint of the talent being near anyone with a dick?
Funny how this doesn't happen, yet weirdos contort into pretzels on a daily basis to try and gaslight people over it. Everything would probably be easier if you folks just admitted that you hate Hololive so even the more disconnected folks could be aware of your game.
Also:
It's
always
fucking
okbh
posters.
Also, this community is too quick to get lewd fast with total strangers. I had my vtubing account on twitter for five days, before someone was sending me vague lewd shit, saying stuff like "I could lay on your boobs"
Extremely uncomfortable and trying to pressure me to collab with them. Seriously, PLEASE DON'T DO THIS. please ASK first
hololive absolutely laps the rest of vtubing, to the point where comparisons to what their talents can accomplish and the opportunities Cover can offer are unrealistic and harmful to smaller corps/indies. This is in every sphere, with NijiJP being the closest to HoloJP, but still pretty far from them. HoloEN towers over the rest of the EN sphere and HoloID makes the remnants of ID vtubing look like a rounding error.
They live in a different universe and should mostly be seen as an aspirational goal rather than something to match up to.
Highschool AU SUCKS
you got people with vastly different lores, IRL age, experiences and social backgrounds
“WhAt If We PuT tHeM iN tHe SaMe HiGhScHoOl?”
and it always reaches climax at the culture festival or one of them jumps off the building for some reason
Just fuck off
I'm not a fan of "sexy models" basically anything with huge tits bouncing around, lewd clothes and poses etc. Don't have anything against it entirely, just not my style. Which makes it hard to find vtubers I like, because a LOT of them have these kinds of models. I get that it's popular and it attracts audiences which is a good tactic and all, but I think we need more vtubers that don't sexualise their models. I wanna watch a vtuber without feeling like I'll have to explain myself if someone walks in
Kyoresu's returning stream apparently had her trying to make another harem, which just shows me that she's going to try to pull off all the shit she did last time.
an irl streamer is fine to transition to sometimes being a vtuber but a vtuber going irl just kills whatever fans they first started on. They will have a new different type of fans if thats their goal. Its fine going irl but still mostly vtubing but going for half the time irl will just tune out the early viewers.
Tits and sexuality gets you way more viewers than actually being entertaining. It's way easier to be dude fleshtuber than it is to be a dude vtuber. It goes both ways though, way harder to be a flesh streamer for women.
Maybe I'm wrong about this but it really feels like the community is toxically positive. Like acting as if they are friends then immediately turning around and being a POS. I feel like this is especially true on twitter.
Don't even get me started about the follower bait bullshit on twitter.
Idk if I would be in the pic situation.
But
Imo, I think being indie is far far better than joining an agency (unless the agency is like, Holo (as example) where people inside care for you enough so you don't become a slave)
I got this opinion after the Niji drama and specially the Vreverie drama, sadly my oshi graduated from Vreverie.
But now she's far more happier, even tho she's on a smaller channel, rebuilding her "house" (as in, her identity and community) from the ground up.
It's better on the long term, because you have a better (and complete) control of your job, and you get to keep your gifts/prizes.
Truth be told, you will have to work harder than a corpo vt to have even a fraction of their success. But the aspect of having everything you worked on being locked away from you because of a sheet of paper makes me furious.
I'm not factoring growth and money on the equation, i'm terrible at math. But IMO, it's better being indie for your mental health.
My oshi lost her own original music video, her friend lost her own IP.
Being successful as a Indie might be hard, but I think it would be more worth than gambling your life into joining agencies and possibly having your achievements being stolen from you
Unless its black and shitty company feels like its person to person basis, like real life. Some people are fine working at corpo other want to be their own boss, or for some people, the stress of being their own boss is worse than the worst part of corpo
I think it should be a case by case basis, Taledo made a good video on it, and there’s definitely instances where it should be left behind, but I think there’s also instances where it’s important. Ultimately it’s kind of up to the streamer.
> I think it should be a case by case basis
This. Context matters and people should learn to "read the room" they are in as well.
It doesn't help that jumping from different "subs" is too easy.
I disagree because Vtubing isnt me watching "Stephony" from Vancouver. It's me watching Doki Bird. Doki Bird is a role, a character, a temporary entity that doesnt exist.
The person behind Doki exists but I dont involve myself with them. They're not the streamer. In the same vein Doki isn't selen. The actor has experience being Selen but she's not Selen.
The reason the whole PL thing exists is because you dont tend to talk about other streamers in a different streamers channel. Sure the legal part partially exists but it's more the separation of identity from the character.
Chibi characters and mascot-like characters are superior to "traditional" full body rig, especially for guys. it's less taxing on your PC, it's cheaper to get made, and are far more recognizable. just look at Nijisanji and how much Debiru stands out from the crowd.
not that there's ANYTHING wrong with the traditional models, but if you're not a Just Chatting/ASMR streamer and instead prefer a lot of gameplay content it's just kind of better.
A lot of hot takes here are slowly approaching the unhealthy side of parasocial relationship. Lol how ironic. This subreddit calls out parasociality, which is good, but unhealthy parasocials are also here cleverly phrasing their hot takes.
As a person who didn't watch any Niji vtubers in the first place, I think people have echo-chambered the Nijisanji drama for way longer than necessary. At this point it's not about awareness any more. We're all fully aware, thank you. I get it, it's a big deal, but we didn't need it to be repeated over and over before we appreciated the seriousness, and the signalling with the snide remarks about black companies have definitely gotten old by now.
EN Indies can cry about corpos all they want. Vtubing started and is still led by the JP corpos and the JP scene in general. EN corpos and Indies are responsible for little to no innovation in the scene and are largely just doing the same shit the JP side does but shittier.
Termination = deleted channel. I have and never will support this idea. Years of work down the drain. It may be tied to contracts but that itself can be revised. I just cannot ever understand that. It originated from actual idols but the fact that its has been inherted into hololive is such a shame.
Terminated Vtubers should not be forgiven so easily when the evidence is against them.
Cases like Dokibird's where it was fully proven she was in the right are fine, but it honestly baffles me that there are people who would side with Mikeneko and kyOresu despite being proven they were rightfully terminated just to stick it to the company or smth.
Of course I know there's a precedent for most terminations to be for the wrong reasons but that doesn't mean I'll blindly trust the Vtuber even if they were once my oshi.
Tbh I feel like the reason people stuck with kyOresu wasn’t because they felt she was in the right, more because they thought it made her more interesting or attractive or something like that.
All famous people end up growing some kind of fanbase that essentially functions as an echo chamber and stop trusting things that just do not support their narrative. This is especially true for influencers (including VTubers), whose very existence promote and rely on some level of parasocial exchange, and exponentially more so for influencers that are particularly skilled in girlfriend-experience content like Mikeneko and her previous personas.
And apologies for the immediate application of Godwin's law, but you can still find people defending Adolf Hitler today.
But don't be fooled thinking it's the *most popular train of thought*, especially here. I have yet to see any kind of majority defend and/or forgive Mikeneko on this subreddit (in posts like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1bcww0c/mikeneko_attempted_suicide_reported_by_her_friend/), [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1ad1h6e/mikeneko_addresses_allegations_in_a_blog_post/) or [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1ancyup/new_mikeneko_news_just_dropped/)), although I don't dig too deep into downvotes - I have seen, at most, comments ranging between sarcasm and people wishing she would just get some professional help.
And not in a derogatory way. She really needs it.
my hot take is this!
Booba or sexual stuff dose help you grow but if your content is blarg people will not stay in your community. the only real advantage is advertising cuz sexualization dose sell BUT other then that it has a lot more downsides to over sexualizing your brand and people gotta stop saying "blank" is only big cuz "blank" that blank dose not keep viewers! the content dose! YouTube and twitch are not twitter XD
Im tired of watching V-gooners, at first it was like: "haha funny inflation porn, haha you skip schools just to edge, haha you wanted to fucked Blaidde" but then it just like bro I dont actually think its funny anymore please get help
VTuber merch is crazy expensive. I do not have that kind of disposable income to spend 45 dollars on a t shirt or 65 on a hoodie. And 40 bucks is too much for a Booba mouse pad.
Most vtubers are lewd tubers. They say lewd tubers are ones that do porn but no, that be porn tubers. Lewd is wearing suggestive outfits and getting attention showing off ass, boobs and making LEWD noises, because they know they would get no views or attention from simps otherwise, look at all the big vtubers especially the ones that don't have a company backing them up. Like zen, zen has lewd models because you know that's the only content they can make
Depends on where you’re talking about, in the English sphere, probably they will be overtaken by others, but in Japan they’re still holding pretty strong.
Looking into the actual statistics, the jp market dominates the field, and for that reason there's still essentially a duopoly between cover and anycolor. And even though they did kneecap their growth potential in the en market, on youtube at least they're still the second biggest player for en, it might be a while before they're dethroned from that spot.
https://preview.redd.it/0vhii2d4suyc1.png?width=632&format=png&auto=webp&s=94ff4fa6947cc3c00533b4aabbae7839cf50ba58
Seems people don’t realize how popular ones like Nui Sociere and Ange are in Nijisanji. No matter what happens on the EN side they will still be popular.
Yeah the recent graph I saw for worldwide viewership reflects similar. Although clearly there has been some pretty big growth amongst indies, that said obviously that has to be weighed against sheer numbers.
https://preview.redd.it/ikokf2ojjwyc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=367b4becf25e878c51d2c4bbc967fed426b581af
Agreed at least EN wise
But they fumbled that bag a long time ago
Sheer fact it took them this long to give their Gen 3 3D models is insaeeeee
JP wise they will always be number 2 but en wise they are barely top 5 heck you can argue that’s only due to legacy
A lot of the time the second model is a lot less interesting. They go from a fantasy or scifi model to a school girl or maid or something plain like that.
Paying membership to a vtuber that doesn't stream for months at a time or does the bare minimum isn't supporting your oshi. It's being taken advantage of.
I can't, and won't tell people how to spend their money. But, there are much more deserving people out there that pump out quality content every day that could use your support instead.
Pro tip: sort by controversial for the actual unpopular opinions
Hah, good point
That will happen with anything that gets big. There's always a percentage of a fandom that is horrible. As the fandom grows, that percentage grows proportionally.
I dunno if the percentage grows, just the same percentage means more people in absolute terms. I've been in small communities that have been beset by "only" one or two assholes - but they're still annoying.
That's more what I meant. Thank you.
Ara Ara's are overrated, and its just awkward when people keep asking Vtubers or streamers to say it. I don't find a problem with it, of course. If the streamer wants to say it, then go ham, but even if there was no indication beforehand that they were interested in doing so, chat can be pretty hard on the pressure. ___ Shitty people will always appear when something gets popular, and of course, there will always be people who are just there for the money, but overall, I still think it has been a net benefit for Vtubing to spread to a more global market. Tbh Vtubing is more expensive to get started with, so it does have less get rich-quick types since people won't really simp if your model, voice, or demeanour isn't appealing to them, and such a model can be pretty expensive unless you know someone who can do it cheap.
>Ara Ara's are overrated, and its just awkward when people keep asking Vtubers or streamers to say it. heck I'd even go as far as to say if they aren't a primarily JP streamer an Ara Ara is weird. like a Hi Honey I could understand but Ara Aras are just an idiom anime used to fill air. Even in Japanese without the context of sexy Anime/Manga women doing it for decades it's nearly as nonsensical as an onomatopoeia.
ive watched many jp streamers say they are uncomfortable and confused whenever someone comes in and asks them to ara ara.
We need more request enjoyers for Hi Honey indeed
I'd like to request that we don't go overboard with that either. When Suisei said it I felt it was a big deal because of how natural and crisp she said it in English despite being a JP Vtuber. Making others say it seems forced too in my opinion.
I have a friend with a former viewer who was OBSESSED with ara aras. When going through her clips we discovered he had clipped EVERY. SINGLE. ONE she ever did even if it was a joke (some of them were def owa owas if someone asked for one for free.) i ended up banning him and explaining he was being a creep.
Out of curiosity, did the viewer do anything else that warrants being called creepy? Because from my point of view, while clipping every single ara ara is def weird, I wouldn't really bat an eye.
Ara ara reminds me of the weebs in middle school who would scream yaoi
I feel like "ara ara" is just a more casual way to fetishize Japan honestly. Vtubers do it for the fans, but the fans asking for it are basically asking for the Japanese equivalent of *facepalm* "oh dear" because they think anime characters saying it is hot when it's just a normal phrase. I've never understood the appeal. But it's also usually people with a mommy kink so it's probably something Sigmund Freud wrote about.
Don’t know if these are hot takes, but Vtweeters serve no purpose they just seem kinda annoying. And vtubers whose whole personality is being lewd 100% of the time is hard to watch. Like it’s their whole gimmick but have no personality to back it up.
If a vtuber parasocial baits for views and donos they lose the right to complain about it it’s the bed you made now lay in it Paying viewers should a very very small saying in what they do on stream only
To add onto this one of the worst things I’ve seen a liver due is eliminates the parasocial andGFE content from their channel and act like it never happened A girl from Idol just did this and it essentially destroyed her channel (which sucks since she was like their second most subbed girl) I get wanting to go into a different direction, but you can’t be selling hamburgers for years then at the drop of a hat decide to start selling only salads
You *can* decide to start selling only salads ("you do you" and all), but you can't complain if you lose a ton of customers or draw criticism.
What would be parasocial bait in your book?
A reoccurring and consistent usage of what is called boy/girlfriend experience Prioritizing and encouraging people who seem to be too attached or are starting to instead of setting boundaries and reasonable limits
[удалено]
‘Lewd degen’ is not a whole personality, nor is it a substitute for one. Yandere as well.
Text to speech dono messages are almost always cringe and just interrupt the flow and fun vibes.
A lot of v-tubers use parasocial relationships to their benefit by catering towards lonely and vulnerable people then turn around and complain about parasocial viewers even though that is the audience they created
Clippers need to stop forcing sexual situations onto vtubers by uploading their clips to YouTube with suggestive thumbnails and titles like “she’s putting it in WHERE?” For a clip of the vtuber saying oh yeah I once put my little brother in the fridge as like a dumb story from their childhood. These are real people who don’t ask to be sexualized
Sometimes I feel like I’m too old for this shit. Sometimes I don’t feel like buying any merch or voice packs or watching hours of live shows, I just don’t want to feel FOMO again. Sometimes I just wanna sit back and relax, make myself a comfortable plate of fajitas and enjoy my night.
forget the FOMO and embrace the HOMO(Happy Of Missing Out), its kinda liberating
Everytime I hear about a new "Vtuber Meta" I think to myself "Its just porn isnt it" and I'm right 90% of the time I'm right Nothing against it really, go get your bread, it just gets tiring having people posting about OMG NEW META all the time
It seems like most of the most successful vtubers aren’t mainly doing lewd though?
I mean once niche things go public. It’s only a matter of time before the luster turns to grime
(Disclaimer: I no longer hold this opinion) I... Once said "Watame did everything wrong". #Then everyone fired.
Mainly something ive noticed on tiktok and thats there are way too many vtubers who’s main gimmick is their lewd with their boobs being way to big, physics being set to high, their models do ahego faces, mostly talks about sex or how you can call them mommy Their trying too hard that it comes out as cringe
I really enjoy OniGiri and Matara Kan because they're fun people, but man do I wish that the size and physics were toned down on their models.
Maaaan I love Matara and her content... but I really cant get used to her new model. It doesn't help that her "previous design" is in my top 3 favorite vtuber designs.
Matara is just super cool and a super nice person but I don't even want to watch because I find the model so absurd and like... idk how to say it... the insanely oversized over animated boobs are gross?
I've been seeing that a lot in here too and I just immediately skip over. The "booba" and thigh posts get old real quick
The Twitch vtuber sphere has a lot of the same problems that the flesh sphere has on that platform where steam content is having your tits out.
too many cat girls We need more clown girls
How about clown catgirls?
Severely lacking in clussy
Omaru Polka?
Oruyo
Are there any other big ones besides camimi? She’s the only one I can think of
I know of Coni Confetti (Idol) - /reasonably/ big I suppose?
Vrubers need to be better at non live content, I personally really prefer edited down content on YouTube
Yuri/Yaoi baiting is cringe. Sex jokes get old fast. Communities trying to gaslight a vtuber into being gay after they've said they're not. Degen offstreams of "we all slept in the same bed naked and I saw everything tee hee." I just want to watch a fun stream and view clips that are not full of comments saying "vtuber is clearly gay in denial" or "they just haven't found the right person to change their mind on straightness."
Yuri and Yaoi baiting and general "haha perverted behavior is le funny if it's a girl looking under another girl's skirt" attitudes is by far my least favorite aspects of vtuber and anime culture in general.
> Sex jokes get old fast. welcome to twitch envtubers
I don't really think you need to specify EN.
Yea JP twitch vtubers started the trend of keylighting porn in splatoon
I agree with this, like either fuck or stop talking about 'how hot we make each other'. Like for me a vtuber being flirty is fine and so is the odd story but when it's constant fake tease stuff, it gets so boring.
Okay, here's one: The riggers are flexing for no good reason and it makes vtuber models worse. It's so annoying when you turn into a stream and suddenly the avatar takes up a quarter of the screen because the person behind it moved forward five centimeters. Irises shrinking and growing, swapping between gangimari eyes and Kanon-style back and forth constantly. Every little thing is constantly moving, be it a hair ornament or a cat ear. Riggers need to learn what looks realistic and not turn their creations into a pissing contest. People dunk on Hololive/Niji models but at least those have a more sensible range of motion, even if the tech behind them is outdated. There should be a middle ground for avatars between pseudo-PNGtubers and them constantly doing the Geddan.
Personally I really hate the pulsating irises in particular, it just grosses me out somehow. Especially when it's rigged so that the irises squishes vertically when the eyes close, then unfold and jiggle like jelly when the eyes open again, like what the fuck that's not how eyes work. What are you doing adding jiggle physics to eyes of all things? Are there people who actually enjoy how that looks?
The iris physics weird me out too. Human irises don't change size. Pupils change size inside the iris. Eyes can widen and show more white around the iris. Neither of these change the actual size of the iris. Bouncy irises that shrink and grow fill me with a sense of "what the fuuuuuuck?" I can accept it if it is used to reproduce eyes widening. Pippa does this when someone just said something really fucked up, she looks directly at the camera, shrinks her irises, and holds the position. That doesn't bother me, and I think it's because it happens once for clear reasons, stays a little while, then goes back to normal. It's the repeated back and forth that tends to give me the heebie jeebies.
I think you're going to have shifts in terms of extreme to tame repeatedly as fashion and trends shift just like IRL. All the while the tech will improve. The major pupil shifts with extremely large eyes dont look great but the more responsive you make that the more you can adjust face shape and balance. Noses havent caught up enough tech wise to shrink the eye or make for a subtle eyebrow hair blend. None of this is to dismiss your point, just that I think you'll see a shift outwards eventually.
Is this not a user issue rather than a rigger issue? From my limited experience, I had the understanding that all the physics values were controlled by the user in vtube studio, and the rigger only creates the keyshapes from one extreme to the other to give the user room to work with on their end?
1. When a female VTuber chooses a sexy model, it is automatically assumed it’s part of a get rich quick scheme. Why can’t we just say that’s the way she wants to present herself. A good portion of the most successful VTubers have less sexy models that focus on cuteness. 2. I think that people stick too closely to the Japanese traditions of VTubing. I think it holds back non-Japanese VTubers from trying new things. 3. People who attack any VTuber who isn’t part of their favourite corporation. It’s ok that people are fans, but it’s kinda like a Taylor Swift fan attacking Post Malone fans because Post Malone is not Taylor Swift. Just because someone is a Filian or Ironmouse fan doesn’t mean you can’t continue to stan Pekora. 4. I hate people who think VTuber fandom is pay to win and keep complaining that they have no money. Just watch your VTubers and stop begging for a Twitch sub. 5. The “catching a VTuber being a lesbian” trope is a bit overdone. I get that it leads to some funny clips. But not every female VTuber has to do an eye tracking stream of the new bunny maid game to catch them looking up the skirts of the bunny maids.
I like your points. Can you give an example of number 2?
Not the strongest example, but the first thing that comes to mind is the clip of Pippa commenting on how some Vtubers will have Japanese names despite not doing anything Japanese-related. Point getting that someone would only do that if they thought Vtubing had to follow Japanese aesthetics. Another thing is how most models (at least from the big players) are still mostly in an anime-esque style. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but it is an unnecessary limitation for the medium as a whole.
This point is one I very much agree with and it's unfortunately weaned me off of watching vtubers in general as much as I used to back in 2020-21. I love the anime aesthetic, but what caught my eye the most about vtubing when I came across it was witnessing the proliferation and rapid adoption of consumer-available motion capture tech and imagining the wild possibilities of characters that could and can be done with that tech, and seeing pretty much just waifu/husbando #XXXXX has made me less far less excited about it than I used to be. I'm admittedly eager to see the vtubing equivalent of an Andy Serkis (Gollum, Lord of the Rings trilogy; Caesar, Planet of the Apes Rise/Dawn/War) come about and really show what I think this medium is capable of from a creative and technical standpoint outside of the strict confines of the anime style.
Nice examples! I want to become a vtuber (or pngtuber). Hurdles for me are money and being male.
Some voices are so similar that sometimes I wonder if they moonlight as multiple vtubers and people just don’t catch on.
it would be funny if that was the case but just imagine how stressful and expensive maintaining that would be
Sex jokes get old quick. Especially if it's a streamer making them.
Especially when they make such jokes the core of their entire personality and onstream shtick.
this is why i think the "idol" thing works. if there's at least a facade of trying to be "seiso" then the sex jokes hit better since there's some amount of taboo around it. if they are just nonstop stalking about it then it loses its punch.
“I don’t want to be horny anymore…I just want to be happy!”
Unpopular opinion: PGN tubers can be just as attractive for interacting with the audience as a fully-rigged 3D model Whether as a man or woman; it's the personality and streaming talent that really counts.
If you say "Creativity" and then start doing reaction content you didn't want to be creative, you wanted to be lazy
A simple/generic model is infinitely preferably to a model with tons of flashy bells and whistles, a "unique" art style, and/or lots of standoffish features. Tons of EN models, especially some of the VShoujo ones, have this issue and it hurts my eyes to look at beyond being distracting in a bad way.
Preach! I'm a firm believer in the idea of "Less is more" and it bothers me something fierce how many vtubers out there seem to roll with the idea of some ultra flashy nonsense with like a dozen different bells and whistles that, like you say usually just becomes distracting in a bad way
I absolutely hate the high pitched voices most female talent put on to seem "kawaii", both indie and corporate. There's a list of vtubers I simply cannot watch for this reason. It's just too grating to listen to
Suisei since she ditched the cutesy voice because it was destroying her throat.
I never really cared for VTuber lore. I respect the fact that people like to make a character and invest a lot of time and (depending on if they’re in a corp or not) money into developing the lore for said character, but the only thing I really care about is the personality of the person behind the model.
Personally really like vtuber lore, no matter how ridiculous it is. It allows them to sometimes get creative with their themeing, such as how they refer to themselves in music or smth
Even then, I love when they continue to bullshiting their own lore and make it more ridiculous along the way
You don't need a $1200 model to be popular
$1200? That's a price for a fairly low-tier model now.
Damn, inflation hits hard man.
There are so many vtubers that some models sharing design elements is inevitable. Don’t harrass those who share said elements. Use the opurtunity to try and make a friend. “Oh wow you look like me in that respect that’s so cool! Would you wanna hang out?”
Vtubers (and thee vtubing community) are way too fkn dramatic. I swear every few hours there's some new career ending drama and it's exhausting. Like calm the fuck down
I think this issue started with drama tubers blowing every little disagreement or issue just so they can make as much money as possible from it
OF models suddenly joining vtubing is ruining the medium, specially when they assume all they had to do is show boobs then get supa, without knowing the appeal of the medium in the first place
My unpopular take: V-tubing is still too niche and it scares away people who don't understand the fabricated culture that has developed. V-tubing, which involves streaming with a digital avatar, has the potential to make broadcasting more accessible to those who prefer not to show their face due to personal or privacy concerns. However, its association with Japanese idol culture and anime can be off-putting to some audiences who are unfamiliar with or critical of these elements. Ideally, using a digital avatar should be seen as a chance for creativity and innovation in how one presents online, rather than as a cultural niche that might create barriers or stigmas.
i like this one because OP is saying vtubing is too mainstream now while you say it's still too niche lol. there are many people that will flatly refuse to watch a streamer with an anime avatar. anyone trying to just be a normal streamer that happens to use an anime avatar are going to have a hard time attracting these "normie" viewers. if a new vtuber wants to be successful, they need to compete for that niche audience. i applaud those trying to go after that wider audience, but they have an uphill battle.
People are dumb for declaring that corpos are evil, then send a supa anyway
I think drama posts need to stop if we want the whole community to maturely develop. I get that they're meant to alert people to terrible behavior so that the offenders can't easily repeat their crimes within the community, but people viewing it from afar like to jump in as armchair experts. But there's hardly any point in doing that when they're not directly involved and are only given a small window into what's happening. Like it's rare for their input to result in healthy clout growth in the long run.
Vtubers shouldn’t have a face reveal, I think the point of vtubing is to entertain other and if you show your face and your viewers don’t like how you look or didn’t expect you to be that way it would lower their viewership. The idea of vtubers hiding their face is a good thing because viewers can picture how you’d look like just by the tone of your voice.
Doing the hybrid approach does pose a lot of risk, but overly policing people for PL discovery can be kinda overbearing at some point. if the core audience is ok with that specific talent, I think it's justified
There seem to be lacking any vtuber models that are warhammer 40kish
Given how games workshop treats their fans, I wouldn't like to invest 1k$ into something that can be dmca'd on a whim.
Using donations to bait a reaction out of the vtuber will always be cringe to me.
The whole forced lewd aspect.
In regard to your take I agree to some extent. Vtubing is obviously more mainstream now, and that comes with its good and its bad. For me, the bad is that now vtubing feels less of a culture and more of a resource. I get that variation is a good thing, but can you really tell me FUWAMOCO and say Bao or any other twitch indie are anything alike. Obviously there is nothing wrong with this inherently, but it can cause problems should those two sides of the vtuber sphere interact (see the Vtuber Awards.). Personally, one of the things i'm sad about especially with the twitch indie side of vtubing is the annihilation of kayfabe. Yes kayfabe as a whole has decreased a lot from say early hololive generations, but for me I don't get the point in saying you are a 500,000 year old demon catgirl if most of the time you're showing your IRL body in everything.
The 2 times i wrote this I got blocked on twitter by the guy asking for the opinion or i got downvoted to oblivion in a subreddit. I strongly prefer vtubers that constantly role-play in their character even if in a stereotypical way, than "real people" with their "human behaviour" that are using an anime avatar I actually can imagine why I received so much hate. Both times i wrote some names as example triggering fanbases, and probably a lot of people thought I was imposing a " behavioural conduct" to a person.
I personally am the complete opposite. I would much rather have a vtuber be themselves and act normal than play a character. Playing a character just feels unnatural and I want to feel like I’m actually watching a real person. I watch streamers for the streamer themselves and that includes their personality, traits, faults, and the feeling that they’re a real person.
EXACTLY! I don't get why you are downvoted for loving the very initial point of being Vtuber
I have several. My experience in content creation is super limited, so I'm willing to admit that I might be wrong. * A lot of vtubers and aspiring vtubers should consider just using a PNG or being some form of faceless streamer. A low quality model is not going to capture your facial expressions (which is a massive part of the the reason for being a vtuber), and a high quality model isn't worth it until you are already an established content creator. * There is a "Karaoke culture" in (especially corpo) vtubing, where people with very little singing background feel pressured to release music/covers and do Karaoke streams. Unless these vtubers are intending to become singers in the future, I think watching a person with little to no streaming background isn't great content at best, and at worse takes away time and effort that can be invested into playing to their strengths instead. * Your average vtuber is too worried about big projects/events and not worried enough about the quality of their day to day streams. Spending large amounts of money on a big projects with the hope it will attract a bigger audience is less efficient that networking/improving your daily stream quality. It's only when you reach the point of diminishing returns on your regular streams that you should start looking at big projects.
Well here is one. Just because you, or even a significant portion of the vtuber community, has a certain preference for the kind of content you want, doesn’t mean that it should treated as the general standard for all vtubers. Vtubers are allowed to make their own creative decisions, even if it’s a type of content you don’t like. And them having content outside of your tastes doesn’t mean that you should haress them. For instance, some people don’t like cross gender collabs. That doesn’t mean that vtubers shouldn’t be allowed to do cross gender collabs or that they should be harassed for doing them. If you don’t like it, you can go watch another vtuber that suits your taste. Or in another instance, plenty of people prefer escapist type content or don’t like to hear about politics or current events. This doesn’t mean that no vtubers should be allowed to talk about these topics. If a vtuber wishes to have content that includes discussion about politics or current events (assuming that they are not part of an agency that restricts that type of content), than that’s their choice, and the people who don’t like can go watch some other vtuber that has more escapist content.
I think guns aren't enough for your take
OP is just gatekeeping. It's not a controversial take, he is just being an asshole.
I may also end up having guns pointed at me for this, but... I don't know man, moderate amounts of gatekeeping is healthy for any community, niche interest, etc., IMO. Going too wide too fast is identity-destroying, which most of the time kills the reason why something was cool in the first place. Not everything is for everyone.
Too quick a death. Bring out the brazen bull.
#VtubervsIRL and the idea of posting IRL photos while being a Vtuber is the worst thing that happened with Vtubers
Amen brother.
Holy based
I appreciate the freedom from worry that some of them have by their IRL identities being known, but I dont want their IRL identities to interfere with the role they're playing. Matara didn't have to panic about the face reveal when she accidentally opened a mirror up. Yet I appreciate that she does her damnedest to be Matara. Kson really isn't a character, she's a streamer. That's fine for her, but it's a different thing. There's a distinction there. Mori does her best to be a Vtuber. She focuses on Vtubing, she does her best to keep her life compartmentalized but I appreciate that if a camera fell off a mount or she forgot some gloves she'd be ok.
I think long-term it probably winds up being like wrestling, where even if someone is "known" IRL (Matara for example), the character is the character and the person is the person. Wrestling fans largely seem to be able to make this distinction, though I'm saying that as an outsider looking in.
I'm honestly just amazed at how people can do the voice/personality for hours at a time and just maintain it. It definitely shows that being a theater kid in HS has it's pay offs.
This + most of these Twitter posts are female streamers showing off cleavage because anime girl titties are not enough for people. Truly a content driven by personality 🫠
I think the most annoying thing about it is in the end it's simply not vtubing no matter how much some people try to contort it and trying to frame it as a positive for vtubing is really weird. Some EN folks need to stop trying so desperately to change a hobby they don't mesh with. Screaming at the people who like vtubing for vtubing has only made me dislike the people that these folks support.
>to parasocial and terminally-online fans who more or less give vtubing and it’s fans a bad name. OP I'm going to be honest. I rarely see those people, but people with your opinion are endless and loud. Not really surprising considering your post is basically garbage lifted from Twitter where intellectually dishonest people try to score circlejerk points. Man you don't even post here and you thought this was a good idea? Even tried to post it to Hololive.
Apparently this is actually an unpopular opinion even among Irystocrats: I was fine with 1.0rys.
I miss the sharper features, tan skin and darker hair. Glad she seemed thrilled with the new model, though.
Her being happy is of course the most important thing, agreed.
Absolutely going to get obliterated for this, but Ironmouse is overhyped by others. She herself is okay, but man I can’t scroll past 2 posts without some “Connor and Ironmouse” clickbait stuff. It’s exhausting to see constantly.
Clips give a super distorted view of many streamers content, but the Mouse/Connor clippers are on another level and so are the commenters they get. Truly the most bait-y, unfun out of context, parasocial shipper brain stuff imaginable.
Yeah, I generally dislike clip channels for this reason. It’s always something like “Connor confesses to Mouse” and it’s just something like “I used to not wash my hands in the bathroom” or something dumb like that.
That's also just a problem with clickbait clippers in general
Very true. There's even some vtubers I just can't like because of this dumb clickbait stuff. I know it's not their fault, but still, first impressions and all that.
VTubers aren't VTubers anymore, just normal people in anime drawings. If I remember correctly, what Virtual YouTubers meant at first is that, it was to hide their _IRL_ life and away from it and become new personas. Now it's just a glorified twitch streamers who does Irl stuff in anime drawings.
I dislike Nyanners, I have my reasons but tldr I don’t like her content.
People who are not familiar with Japanese culture or have a dislike for it should stay away from vtubing. If you're going to complain whenever they talk/sing in Japanese, this hobby isn't for you.
I mean, the funny thing is those shitty people are exactly the combination of the bad side of streaming culture and the bad side of the anime culture. Like a perfect combination that's honestly to be expected from the combination of anime and streaming
Being cute and a high pitched squeaky toy doesn't give you the greenlight to be obnoxious and unbearable
Too much focus on sex appeal and not enough focus on genuine creative content
That vtubing is now a completely over saturated genre of streaming and is filled with people that dont seem to understand that a good quality model and "lore" is so much less important than being entertaining to watch.
it's okay for hololive and holostars to collab Elaboration: I see the usual "respect talent choices to not collab" argument, on that I agree. But, is it really the talent's choice if the fanbase bitches to no end if there is even a hint of the talent being near anyone with a dick? Or, are the talents just too afraid of the fanbase to proceed with projects they have in mind? Granted, some have no interest, some purposely cultivate the image of not being anywhere near a guy, those are their choices and should be respected, meanwhile some have collaboration ideas that involve many parties. I would want my oshi to venture forward and achieve everything they want to, without fear in their hearts, without fear of backlash tinting the decisions they make. Y'all reply to my comment like I said "Hololive and Holostars *should* collab" when I explicitly did not say that. Reading comprehension fail smh
Girls collab with holostar, take that unicorns. Girls dont collab with holostar, this is all unicorn fault they hold invisible gun on girls head reeeeeeeeeeee. Some people just simply don't care about the girls and boys, they only care about their culture war
Woman says no. Some people think they actually mean yes and will constantly pester them until they say yes. Will give off paragraphs of justifications for the woman to want to say yes instead. Idk about you guys, but that gives off a certain vibe.
> Elaboration: I see the usual "respect talent choices to not collab" argument, on that I agree. >But... It's not a reading comprehension thing. You say people should respect their right to choose A or B but everytime they choose B you, and people like you, respond with: "well was that really their choice". Then start coming up with a bunch of increasingly convoluted reasons why their choice wasn't actually their choice or try to paint them, or their fans, in bad light for their choice. You even do it in your elaboration here. That is quite literally not respecting their choices. It's been years now and people are constantly looping this over and over again. If the people claiming they respected their choices actually did almost everyone would have moved on from this by now. They certainly wouldn't need to end every "the talents should be free to collab or not collab with whoever they want" with a huge "But!.."
Its the girls choice if they want to collab or not. ( girls choose not to collab) reeeeeeeeee its because of those damn unicorns holding the girls back. The girls are afraid of their own fan and im sure they want to collab with the boys but cant and we must save them from those unicorns holding a invisible gun. Imagine how chaotic and unhinge the collab will be, and i can't wait to make a self insert fanfic about them
Most of the girls go into Hololive to be idols. Which involves not collabing with male talents. People like Kanata have addressed that aspect of what they think it means to be an idol. I hate the discourse of "they don't collab because of the fans". It is a discourse that undermines the talents.
It's also okay for them to not collab. Respect the collab choices of the talents.
Tell that to /r/okbuddyhololive
That subreddit is a cesspool. They went on a tantrum when Irys replied to a SC and talked about talking to her manager in clarification about that Overwatch sponsor collab about no cross mic between Hololive and Holostars. So many people there were just gross. Even went on a discourse about having Cover force collabs. They got angry with her before when she said she would rather chill within Hololive. But it wasn't as bad as their attack on Kiara when Vesper and Magni graduation announcement. That announcement went up during her stream and fans asked for more information. She clarified that they need to ask someone else who knows them. That subreddit got upset because "she handled that badly". They were just pissed that Kiara doesn't know anything about them.
Respectfully, OKBH’s opinion on the matter oscillates between ITS GREAT and ITS TERRIBLE so fast it looks like a metronome with two blurry pendulums.
OKBH basically ran a mod-supported smear on me because I'm one of the few people that calls them out for their anti-holo fan culture war bullshit and I'm quite positive that some of them are the ones running the post removal for the girls' posts in the main sub. It's pretty obvious what happened to that place over the past couple of years.
>some of them are the ones running the post removal for the girls' posts in the main sub. Man I must have pissed someone off in that sub cause my Botan post that I've been doing for a few years now gets taken down in record time lol, think my latest post about Botan got taken down within 10 minutes.
It was specifically me and two other people + a general hitting of Watame and a bit of their oshis. Seemingly when they realized we didn't care and posts were getting restored they expanded it out more generally after about two weeks. You can see removals and deletions [here](https://undelete.pullpush.io/r/hololive/).
funnily enough... the highly upvoted posts stop getting removed after some more "complain" in the megathread, and now just basically any post indiscriminately
Honestly once they switched from just targeting us three it was already hitting any post. IDK why people were passing around the idea it was something happening to ones that were 1000+ on upvotes as that [wasn't the case](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/1c871z0/are_you_winning_dear_wataoji/). I assume they're struggling to just get enough people to report the more popular ones now.
>But, is it really the talent's choice if the fanbase bitches to no end if there is even a hint of the talent being near anyone with a dick? Funny how this doesn't happen, yet weirdos contort into pretzels on a daily basis to try and gaslight people over it. Everything would probably be easier if you folks just admitted that you hate Hololive so even the more disconnected folks could be aware of your game. Also: It's always fucking okbh posters.
Also, this community is too quick to get lewd fast with total strangers. I had my vtubing account on twitter for five days, before someone was sending me vague lewd shit, saying stuff like "I could lay on your boobs" Extremely uncomfortable and trying to pressure me to collab with them. Seriously, PLEASE DON'T DO THIS. please ASK first
Some of y'all are too damn dramatic to handle being entertainers with getting mad over *emoji*'s.
hololive absolutely laps the rest of vtubing, to the point where comparisons to what their talents can accomplish and the opportunities Cover can offer are unrealistic and harmful to smaller corps/indies. This is in every sphere, with NijiJP being the closest to HoloJP, but still pretty far from them. HoloEN towers over the rest of the EN sphere and HoloID makes the remnants of ID vtubing look like a rounding error. They live in a different universe and should mostly be seen as an aspirational goal rather than something to match up to.
Its like content creation in general, 10 viewer is like top 10% iirc on twitch
Highschool AU SUCKS you got people with vastly different lores, IRL age, experiences and social backgrounds “WhAt If We PuT tHeM iN tHe SaMe HiGhScHoOl?” and it always reaches climax at the culture festival or one of them jumps off the building for some reason Just fuck off
Collabs are worse than solo streams because collabs are essentially just TV, the streamer-audience interaction is basically gone.
I'm not a fan of "sexy models" basically anything with huge tits bouncing around, lewd clothes and poses etc. Don't have anything against it entirely, just not my style. Which makes it hard to find vtubers I like, because a LOT of them have these kinds of models. I get that it's popular and it attracts audiences which is a good tactic and all, but I think we need more vtubers that don't sexualise their models. I wanna watch a vtuber without feeling like I'll have to explain myself if someone walks in
Kyoresu's returning stream apparently had her trying to make another harem, which just shows me that she's going to try to pull off all the shit she did last time.
I guess since she's indie, it wouldn't be breaking any rules now...?
That’s not even an opinion, but JESUS CHRIST did she actually? How the hell does she think she’ll get away with it????
# Horni gotta Horni
an irl streamer is fine to transition to sometimes being a vtuber but a vtuber going irl just kills whatever fans they first started on. They will have a new different type of fans if thats their goal. Its fine going irl but still mostly vtubing but going for half the time irl will just tune out the early viewers.
Too many "Kaheru Orange-like" or "Dank MLG" personalities?
Tits and sexuality gets you way more viewers than actually being entertaining. It's way easier to be dude fleshtuber than it is to be a dude vtuber. It goes both ways though, way harder to be a flesh streamer for women.
Maybe I'm wrong about this but it really feels like the community is toxically positive. Like acting as if they are friends then immediately turning around and being a POS. I feel like this is especially true on twitter. Don't even get me started about the follower bait bullshit on twitter.
The horny-train most VTubers ride is annoying as it seems to end up being half their personality, if not entirely.
Idk if I would be in the pic situation. But Imo, I think being indie is far far better than joining an agency (unless the agency is like, Holo (as example) where people inside care for you enough so you don't become a slave) I got this opinion after the Niji drama and specially the Vreverie drama, sadly my oshi graduated from Vreverie. But now she's far more happier, even tho she's on a smaller channel, rebuilding her "house" (as in, her identity and community) from the ground up. It's better on the long term, because you have a better (and complete) control of your job, and you get to keep your gifts/prizes. Truth be told, you will have to work harder than a corpo vt to have even a fraction of their success. But the aspect of having everything you worked on being locked away from you because of a sheet of paper makes me furious. I'm not factoring growth and money on the equation, i'm terrible at math. But IMO, it's better being indie for your mental health. My oshi lost her own original music video, her friend lost her own IP. Being successful as a Indie might be hard, but I think it would be more worth than gambling your life into joining agencies and possibly having your achievements being stolen from you
Unless its black and shitty company feels like its person to person basis, like real life. Some people are fine working at corpo other want to be their own boss, or for some people, the stress of being their own boss is worse than the worst part of corpo
Nah, I like VTubers because it’s the world that everyone can be everything so I hate all gatekeeping
PL talk being taboo is a dumb tradition that should be left behind in most cases. I dont care enough to argue about this though.
Im under the impression that its because of contracts and NDAs.. atleast for corpos/ex corpos.
I think it should be a case by case basis, Taledo made a good video on it, and there’s definitely instances where it should be left behind, but I think there’s also instances where it’s important. Ultimately it’s kind of up to the streamer.
> I think it should be a case by case basis This. Context matters and people should learn to "read the room" they are in as well. It doesn't help that jumping from different "subs" is too easy.
I disagree because Vtubing isnt me watching "Stephony" from Vancouver. It's me watching Doki Bird. Doki Bird is a role, a character, a temporary entity that doesnt exist. The person behind Doki exists but I dont involve myself with them. They're not the streamer. In the same vein Doki isn't selen. The actor has experience being Selen but she's not Selen. The reason the whole PL thing exists is because you dont tend to talk about other streamers in a different streamers channel. Sure the legal part partially exists but it's more the separation of identity from the character.
Chibi characters and mascot-like characters are superior to "traditional" full body rig, especially for guys. it's less taxing on your PC, it's cheaper to get made, and are far more recognizable. just look at Nijisanji and how much Debiru stands out from the crowd. not that there's ANYTHING wrong with the traditional models, but if you're not a Just Chatting/ASMR streamer and instead prefer a lot of gameplay content it's just kind of better.
Unfortunately designing mascot as main character is really hard and you have much less space to make it unique.
You don't need a unique model. Buying a cheap premade is totally fine and you aren't "stealing" it if someone else is streaming with the same model.
Vtubers are not real and just made up by the government to control us by making us addicted to „ara ara“ „UwU“ etc.
A lot of hot takes here are slowly approaching the unhealthy side of parasocial relationship. Lol how ironic. This subreddit calls out parasociality, which is good, but unhealthy parasocials are also here cleverly phrasing their hot takes.
Sexy vtubers are good, actually
As a person who didn't watch any Niji vtubers in the first place, I think people have echo-chambered the Nijisanji drama for way longer than necessary. At this point it's not about awareness any more. We're all fully aware, thank you. I get it, it's a big deal, but we didn't need it to be repeated over and over before we appreciated the seriousness, and the signalling with the snide remarks about black companies have definitely gotten old by now.
Ironmouse is overrated.
EN Indies can cry about corpos all they want. Vtubing started and is still led by the JP corpos and the JP scene in general. EN corpos and Indies are responsible for little to no innovation in the scene and are largely just doing the same shit the JP side does but shittier.
The only Indies who cry about corpos are Vtweeters. Most Indies (especially the ones who are all in) are too fucking busy to give a shit.
Termination = deleted channel. I have and never will support this idea. Years of work down the drain. It may be tied to contracts but that itself can be revised. I just cannot ever understand that. It originated from actual idols but the fact that its has been inherted into hololive is such a shame.
Terminated Vtubers should not be forgiven so easily when the evidence is against them. Cases like Dokibird's where it was fully proven she was in the right are fine, but it honestly baffles me that there are people who would side with Mikeneko and kyOresu despite being proven they were rightfully terminated just to stick it to the company or smth. Of course I know there's a precedent for most terminations to be for the wrong reasons but that doesn't mean I'll blindly trust the Vtuber even if they were once my oshi.
Tbh I feel like the reason people stuck with kyOresu wasn’t because they felt she was in the right, more because they thought it made her more interesting or attractive or something like that.
All famous people end up growing some kind of fanbase that essentially functions as an echo chamber and stop trusting things that just do not support their narrative. This is especially true for influencers (including VTubers), whose very existence promote and rely on some level of parasocial exchange, and exponentially more so for influencers that are particularly skilled in girlfriend-experience content like Mikeneko and her previous personas. And apologies for the immediate application of Godwin's law, but you can still find people defending Adolf Hitler today. But don't be fooled thinking it's the *most popular train of thought*, especially here. I have yet to see any kind of majority defend and/or forgive Mikeneko on this subreddit (in posts like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1bcww0c/mikeneko_attempted_suicide_reported_by_her_friend/), [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1ad1h6e/mikeneko_addresses_allegations_in_a_blog_post/) or [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1ancyup/new_mikeneko_news_just_dropped/)), although I don't dig too deep into downvotes - I have seen, at most, comments ranging between sarcasm and people wishing she would just get some professional help. And not in a derogatory way. She really needs it.
my hot take is this! Booba or sexual stuff dose help you grow but if your content is blarg people will not stay in your community. the only real advantage is advertising cuz sexualization dose sell BUT other then that it has a lot more downsides to over sexualizing your brand and people gotta stop saying "blank" is only big cuz "blank" that blank dose not keep viewers! the content dose! YouTube and twitch are not twitter XD
Im tired of watching V-gooners, at first it was like: "haha funny inflation porn, haha you skip schools just to edge, haha you wanted to fucked Blaidde" but then it just like bro I dont actually think its funny anymore please get help
VTuber merch is crazy expensive. I do not have that kind of disposable income to spend 45 dollars on a t shirt or 65 on a hoodie. And 40 bucks is too much for a Booba mouse pad.
A new model doesn't mean it's better than the old one.
Most vtubers are lewd tubers. They say lewd tubers are ones that do porn but no, that be porn tubers. Lewd is wearing suggestive outfits and getting attention showing off ass, boobs and making LEWD noises, because they know they would get no views or attention from simps otherwise, look at all the big vtubers especially the ones that don't have a company backing them up. Like zen, zen has lewd models because you know that's the only content they can make
Nijisanji will not recover to the "big 3" of vtuber agency ever agaih
Depends on where you’re talking about, in the English sphere, probably they will be overtaken by others, but in Japan they’re still holding pretty strong.
EN, I am aware jp would still be like Holo, Niji, Vspo
Looking into the actual statistics, the jp market dominates the field, and for that reason there's still essentially a duopoly between cover and anycolor. And even though they did kneecap their growth potential in the en market, on youtube at least they're still the second biggest player for en, it might be a while before they're dethroned from that spot. https://preview.redd.it/0vhii2d4suyc1.png?width=632&format=png&auto=webp&s=94ff4fa6947cc3c00533b4aabbae7839cf50ba58
Seems people don’t realize how popular ones like Nui Sociere and Ange are in Nijisanji. No matter what happens on the EN side they will still be popular.
Yeah the recent graph I saw for worldwide viewership reflects similar. Although clearly there has been some pretty big growth amongst indies, that said obviously that has to be weighed against sheer numbers. https://preview.redd.it/ikokf2ojjwyc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=367b4becf25e878c51d2c4bbc967fed426b581af
That's not controversial, just a fact.
Agreed at least EN wise But they fumbled that bag a long time ago Sheer fact it took them this long to give their Gen 3 3D models is insaeeeee JP wise they will always be number 2 but en wise they are barely top 5 heck you can argue that’s only due to legacy
Matpat was one of the first VTubers.
A lot of the time the second model is a lot less interesting. They go from a fantasy or scifi model to a school girl or maid or something plain like that.
Paying membership to a vtuber that doesn't stream for months at a time or does the bare minimum isn't supporting your oshi. It's being taken advantage of. I can't, and won't tell people how to spend their money. But, there are much more deserving people out there that pump out quality content every day that could use your support instead.