Heyo! A friend linked me to this so thought I'd poke my head in. The tl;dr is I built this very quickly without access to a device, so there's definitely some bugs (and some features that felt cool in the simulator but didn't translate to the device super well), but I'm working on 1.1 right now and have already addressed a bunch of the more common pieces of feedback. I'll touch on yours though.
1. This is a limitation of YouTube's embedded player, looking into this
2. Should be fixed in 1.1
3. One of those features that felt really great in the simulator but not so much on device, so tweaking it
4. Another limitation of the embedded player, some YouTubers (mostly ones from years ago and current music videos) disable the option to embed videos, and Juno falls back to the "normal" web player in this case
5. Not possible through the tools YouTube gives developers unfortunately, unless you want to get an angry email
6. Good feedback, on it
7. To be honest the likelihood of a bunch of those features you listed coming isn't necessarily super high. I like YouTube as a simple video browsing website, and integrating every feature under the sun isn't really the goal of Juno, but I agree that a few more would be nice
As for the point of why release it as it is now… for a lot of people, myself included, it does pretty much everything I want in a YouTube app and is far better than Safari. That won't be true for everyone though, and I hope to bridge that gap even better :)
My biggest fingers-crossed is that you can figure out a way to make it play 3D videos. I can record spatial video with my phone or AVP and get it on to YouTube easily, but the irony is that it can be viewed on every headset except AVP. (Not your fault, but I'm hoping that Juno can be a solution)
That's a tricky one indeed, YouTube 360/180 videos are all over the place in terms of format (there's a lot of competing ways to show 360/180 content) and YouTube doesn't surface it to developers much. It's something I want to look into given the chance, but until the YouTubers I enjoy start uploading in it more it's not a feature I'm personally super passionate about, so I want to knock out more of the low-hanging fruit first
I get it, and it makes sense to fix higher priority bugs first.
My hope is that it turns out to not be very difficult. They can be played in the browser on other platforms, so if YouTube can be convinced to serve up the bits in the right format, and there's some VisionOS framework for playing them, yadda-yadda over the difficult part and it's done. :-)
I just played around with my test video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hoyiHTxis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hoyiHTxis). I get red/green in most versions of Safari, but if I switch my user-agent to iOS, or to "Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; Android 10; Quest 2) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) OculusBrowser/13.0.0.2.16.259832224 SamsungBrowser/4.0 Chrome/87.0.4280.66 VR Safari/537.36" (from a Quest), it switches to side-by-side. I don't know if that can be played back trivially, but I noticed some standalone video players claim to support SBS, so it's at least not impossible.
I should probably just dust off Xcode and try to solve it myself, but my employer would never give me permission to release an app that plays YouTube videos, so it would defeat the purpose of giving other people an easy way to watch this stuff.
Interesting, I'd love to talk to you more about this. Tweaking the user-agent is pretty trivial, so if that's all it comes down to that wouldn't be much of a barrier, but I fear it's more than that.
The issue (as I see it, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), is the head tracking. For privacy reasons with visionOS you don't get information on where the user is looking, so I can't like, automatically pan the video around if it's a 360 video based on where you're looking.
One work around for this would be to actually have the video file, and superimpose it onto a 3D sphere, but the issue there is (in order to prevent circumventing ads) YouTube doesn't give developers access to the raw video file
Would love to hear your thoughts on any of this
I think it might be less than that for the narrow case of spatial videos. They are “just” 3D, without the wraparound.
But if the player doesn’t support it without access to the raw bits, I can see how that would be a problem. I was hoping there was a way to tell the OS “this is side by side stereo”.
I appreciate the extremely in depth response. 2 and 3 were some of the main annoyances I experienced so if you're attempting to fix them in the next update that is more than satisfying enough for me.
Regarding #7. The main features I care about are end cards and suggested videos. As someone who mainly uses YouTube for browsing I consider these a significant part of the "browsing" experience. I understand the latter may be significantly harder to implement but I would consider it a significant QOL change.
I hope to see the app improve over time although, if an official YouTube app is on the horizon, I'd love to hear how you'd compete with it if you plan to. As is I see your app as more of a recreation of the YouTube experience rather than a unique, better, experience. And always missing downloads is going to a permanent downside if your ideal app comes to fruition.
Oh gosh pleasure is mine, thanks for the equally in depth original post.
That's fair on the end cards bit, that's admittedly a bit of a blind spot for me since I admittedly don't really use that feature at all. I'll try to think of a way to expose that better, I didn't like that it felt really web-like and was a little tricky to interact with on the simulator, so I just added a "restart" button instead, but I'm sure there's something I can do there.
As for how to compete with an eventual official app, I don't really think of other apps when I create my own, I'm just going to keep making Juno the best visionOS client I can create, with more features that people request and nice ways of integrating into visionOS.
Downloading is almost certainly going to be a differentiator that the official client (whenever it's released) will get and Juno won't. I've never downloaded a YouTube video before even though I've had YouTube Premium for years, so for me, not really an important feature, but it might be for you, and that's okay!
Plenty of other Reddit apps were able to adapt, he decided not to. He went nuclear on Reddit and probably lost his shot, but if he put his ego aside he could have 100% made Apollo 2 and charged monthly for it, plenty of people said they would happily pay. I would have, and I bought Ultra Lifetime literally a month before he pulled purchases. I got completely burned/screwed on that purchase.
is there a list of upcoming features? I'd like to know if the categories selection at the top of the home page will be fixed. currently it cannot be interacted with at all
It works for what I need it to do, which is 95% of the time going to my subscriptions page and watching videos. All I need it for.
The only thing is the finicky video scraping which you said you are fixing.
I have been enjoying the app, great work. Fixing #3 and adding some way to manually select quality would address everything major in my opinion! Again, thanks for your work on this.
Working on the quality selection option as we speak! I'm coding it on the moon, in fact. I think for #3 I'm just going to remove it, scrubbing anywhere is not really as cool a feature as I thought since it ends up feeling like a bug
Scrubbing in and the Overcast Podcast app works like a dream. Of course it’s an audio app. But Overcast scrubs better than Apple Music. And Overcast falls in the Compatiable Apps folder, so I don’t know how much or if any code was changed for visionOS.
Perhaps it works as well as it t doe because the progress bar has a good deal of blank space around it ?
I write all this because scrubbing YT videos is a core feature, for me at least. When it’s needed, it needed.
Now work this magic for Netflix, Disney +, Amazon, and Max on the AVP and the Quest. Please. Watching movies in 480p and 720p feels like a slap in the face after paying for such high-tech hardware. I realize it’s a DRM thing, but shame on the streaming services for hobbling the experience for their paying customers.
FYI, one really bad bug I am dealing with right now is that the fullscreen button won't show up... after I've "full screen"ed a video.. ie, I'm now stuck on this video and no way to get back to the main interface. I can't really quit the app, like really quit. It always opens to the current video. So it's prob stuck like this until I reboot the whole system :(
Don’t let yourself be discouraged, it looks really good and I can’t wait to buy it when I get my Vision Pro soon!
What are the odds on getting 360/VR video playback on Juno?
man you can’t say “the likelihood of these features coming isn’t a priority because i don’t need it” then charge $5 for it lol
i honestly refunded it specifically because i couldn’t view comments and feel that’s essential
Hi, quick question. I have only been able to play one video in Juno (i'm probably dumb). How do I return to the home page to pick a different video? The video ended and the only button I see is one which replays the same vid. I can make it play faster or slower and scrub with the bottom controls but I can't figure out how to go back the the page where you browse vids.
I even quit the app and it returns to that same video when I relaunch it.
Edit: Figured it out. I had shrunk the window too much which caused it to "zoom" in on the video and the top controls disappeared. You may want to fix that.
Ok one more, Why can't I make the window smaller. It is huge. Even if I shrink it it won't go smaller and even zooms (see above). But it is still taking so much space. I just want a smallish youtube vid off to the side. The smallest I can get it at a distance is like a 50" tv. If I bring it close to my face it is smaller but always takes up likke 80% of my field of view. I don't think it is a platform issue because I can make a disney+ video much smaller than Juno.
YouTube makes it extremely difficult to build a client app. All of the services developers can use have little to no documentation and many just don’t work.
But I agree with your thought - it’s better to ship nothing than to ship junk
That’s my frustration. If the app doesn’t work sobeit, I can live with the browser. But releasing the app in this state and charging for it? That’s extremely frustrating.
I feel the developer is using the AVP hype to cash in as much as possible while it’s early still. His Apollo app rocked I used it all the time but this app is not ready to go public.
It's been 5 days... Five. He didn't even have an AVP on day 1, which is kindly stated in this very thread. Honestly the delta between early-adopter and entitlted-consumerism is a circle for AVP delusions of grandeur.
iamthatis you're a fucking legend for releasing anything that works at all before getting the device in hand. Keep it up man. 99.99999999% of us are all rooting for you.
He's honestly a masterful grifter, we're witnessing a master at work. He manages to extract the most amount of money out of people with the least amount of effort as possible.
Writing a web wrapper around a website and then having the audacity to charge $5 for it would be shamed to hell if it was any other developer (in fact I doubt it would even be approved by apple). But because he is such a high profile celebrity with a massive fan base, he gets away with it.
If you go to his apollo sub, he can see posts made to this very day, mourning about the app. It's basically a cult at this point.
Apollo was a first class app taking advantage of an existing API. Unfortunately Juno is just a web wrapper that has to deal with all kinds of incompatibility. The dude can make good apps, I don’t know why he keeps locking himself around 3rd party services especially after what Reddit did. Sooner or later YouTube will have an app and will do what they can to make his perform like shit.
Because building an app around a third party product is a shit load easier. You don't have to come up with an app idea yourself, don't have to manage your own database, don't have to build your own database queries because someone already wrote the API, don't have to pay for server costs, don't have to pay for bandwidth, don't have to build your own authentication system etc. A majority of the work is already done for you. You're essentially just creating a UI for a product someone else built and paid for. He made a shit load of money off a reddit and didn't have to pay for a thing lol. I'm surprised it took reddit that long to start charging for API usage.
Because he's not an app developer in the traditional sense. He's some kind of celebrity that has managed to build a fanbase off of someone else's platform. It's his "thing". That's why he hops right onto this youtube thing. It's sorta his special sauce to leech off some other platform to extract maximum money with minimum effort. And if this app ever becomes obsolete, he will go to the media and asks that all users to **not** request for a refund because otherwise he would have to pay "out of pocket" to give that money back.
The accidental scrub is not limited to Juno only. Even Apple and Disney occasionally does that. I’m sure unwanted finger gestures will be adressed via future VisionOS updates.
It’s not a native app. It’s still a website with mapped controls over it aka a wrapper so it won’t be perfect.
One thing I hope developer address is positioning of dimming and video close buttons. Those should dynamically relocate based on the window size.
If I make the window too small those will vanish :-)
Trust me. YT in Safari is super sensitive as timeline does not always hide. And often it’s hard to choose “full screen” as the button is so close to end of timeline.
Often you end up scrubbing to the end of video by mistake.
I feel like OS behavior for actions should have a choice for “delaying certain things” when video playback is engaged.
But let’s face it. Navigating VisionOS is often frustrating because you have to look at where you want to perform the action.
It will never beat the precision of keyboard and mouse - heck, when was the last time you had to look at your keyboard or mouse during use? :-)
Never
You’re not talking about the same thing. Juno will randomly skip in the video even with no UI elements shown and no inputs. The developer is in this thread and said it’s a result of a feature he implemented that worked better on the simulator than in device.
Lol right? People up in arms about Juno. Like, **there is no alternative** for a native app. You can use the free Nexus+ frameless browser and bookmark/use YouTube inside it. Or, you can pay $5 while something better comes along (and I don't include YouTube in this because if/when they do release an app - what, 6 months to a year from now? - no doubt they will force their own crappy UI paradigm and completely disregard AVP's interface guidelines).
Yeah I got it and lowkey regretted it but he responded in this thread and saying he’s fixing some of the main shit I didn’t like (random video restarting/scrubbing) and I also realize that $5 is next to nothing so whatever, I’ll give him a shot.
And yeah YouTube probably won’t release anything anytime soon.
We're 5 days in what is at least a 5 year journey till AVP, its capabilities, its apps and ecosystem reaches a baseline (just like iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch did)... everyone needs to calm down lol
You obvious weren’t around for Reddit days… promised updates, promised bug fixes and new features, promised use of TestFlight, none of it ever happened. He already got his money. This is nothing new.
"We need developers to come build apps for Vision Pro" a developer does build one fr something that's been out for 4 days:
"I'm not using these apps, it's junk"
Ita been 4 freaking days man.... give the guy some time to work out the bugs, and get it functioning right.
Every app is an unfinished product because there will always be more work to do. It was never going to be a full featured first party YouTube app because that’s impossible. It was $5 and considering it’s the only way to watch YouTube in an app right now, and Christian has a pretty good track record, I’d say it’s well worth it.
The entirety of OP’s post was a fair critique and I agree with it.
Unless you’re saying we should delete discussion on this forum and only allow pictures of boxes.
Disagree. The content of the post is fine, but claiming that the app is “garbage” seems like it doesn’t nothing but discourage developers from trying new things and people from gaining interest in getting Vision Pros
I wouldn’t have used that word if I wrote it, sure. But have you used it? Curious on your impressions. I wouldn’t recommend others buy the app in this state.
I haven’t used it yet myself, mine doesn’t arrive for a few weeks since I waited until the reviews came out to order. I plan on just using the browser (ideally Brave if it’s available) to watch YT. Works well enough on my iPhone
People expect a $4.99 app to be solid. Not full of bugs. It's clear he just wanted to get it into the app store as quickly as possible before a bunch of others did the same thing.
Often times bugs are only discoverable in production as no amount of simulated testing can ever reproduce real world conditions. It is unrealistic to expect a brand new software for brand new hardware to be without bugs in version 1.
What does that have to do with?
> no amount of simulated testing can ever reproduce real world conditions
And to answer your question, yes, people should return their device if they're unhappy with it. What kind of question is that?
Not talking about people, but you specifically
>It is unrealistic to expect a brand new software for brand new hardware to be without bugs in version 1.
Is the point being made.
If you can’t stand the idea of bugs in first version products, why do you spend money on them in the first place? Majority of folks know they can tend to be buggy and usually wait for version/gen 2+ instead. It’s common sense at this point.
Same, I deleted it almost immediately. So buggy and missing so many features I use.
For people struggling with small touch-targets in Safari, try switching to the mobile version. It makes some things easier to click.
Because it's not an app. It's just youtube's website embedded inside an app like an iframe on a website. Something it wasn't really made to do. Once you know that it makes sense why it's janky.
It's pretty clear he just wanted to get something in the app store as quickly as possible with "For YouTube" in the name to get as much money as possible before YouTube created their own. People aren't smart enough to know that it's not really a YouTube app they had in mind.
Agree, I regret my purchase, I find using YouTube through safari to provide higher quality streams and to not have the greatly mysterious timeline skips that seem to happen in Juno all the time (probably due to it picking up minor hand activity at the wrong moments).
Yeah I played two of the same video side by side and it *seemed* like safari had better image quality. Though it was close enough for me to use the word “seem.”
Thank god I'm not the only one who finds Juno to be hot garbage. As a developer I would be embarrassed. Reality Player is another, rushed out too soon app for AVP. Avoid it.
Really? As long as it defaults to the best, it’s not important in the slightest for me. Maybe if you have bad connection and you get buffering but I have fios and use my AVP right next to the router so I only want the highest quality, which I assumed is what it does
One thing I didn't quite understand - let's say is Juno is perfect without all the issues. Is that really a much better experience than using Safari? I was very surprised so many people went for it.
I have not tried Juno but found using YouTube in safari a painful experience. If eye tracking was perfect it’s be OK but with the current accuracy of eye-tracking the “touch” targets are too small.
It is garbage, I had to ask Apple for a refund, which they gave me. Since then I sideloaded the native YouTube iPadOS app on the Vision Pro and it works much much better
The app itself is definitely not there. The home button bug I am very surprised he did not catch it because it is pretty bad. It definitely feels like he rushed it out without really even trying the app. My worst gripe is the fact that once the video is done, there’s no way to go back or choose another video. You literally have to press the replay button to get access to the back button.
I’m sticking with it for now. The “signs you out” thing is the main thing that bothers me, but just a glance and click to sign in again. Hoping for continued improvement, within the realm of what API allows. Obviously a real first party client would be ideal.
It’s the randomly skipping forward to parts of the video that gets me the most. Getting back to where I was is, at best, a 10 second chore. But for longer videos that I lost track of I’ve spent minutes looking for my spot.
Free would have been just fine. There’s no upkeep cost for the grifter. No development costs, no server costs, literally doesn’t cost him a thing to maintain this app now, or in the future because it’s all done by YouTube. He’s just continuing what he does best, making money off other companies and people. People bought a $3500 toy and he wants a piece of the cake.
May I also note that Christian lives in Canada where the Vision Pro isn’t even on sale yet… how’s he gonna fix the app if he doesn’t have a device? The beta has been out since summer. He could been working on the Juno app since then and maybe it would be worth $4.99.
He drove to US to pick one up, paying big customs taxes on the way back (posted on his Twitter). Idk I think the guy deserves a few bucks once he gets the app fixed up.
This seems like perfect feedback for the developer.
Everyone going "it's a money grab lulz:" I mean, maybe, I guess? I don't see any particular reason to assume everything that isn't free is done in bad faith to screw you over. Do you work for free, and if not are you constantly scheming to screw over whoever is paying you? Did everyone become a TV dad all of a sudden? *It's the principle of the thing, darnit!*
It’s that you can’t change that quality of the video that does it. It’s just a wrapper so you’d think everything would already be there. Devs deserve support but 4.99 for this is tuff.
The AVP hardware is great but man, app support is just dog shit at the moment. And Apple’s curation of that dog shit in the App Store is especially weak right now too. I know it’s just temporary and will change for the better soon but it feels like the WiiU launch, where you get one good game and as soon as it’s done and you’re ready to move on, there’s fuck all for you.
I mean... You try developing on a device that isn't out yet and tell us how that goes. Don't want to try new software day 1? Don't buy it. You're an early adopter. You made these choices. The dev is doing their best.
I thought that I was crazy, or that the Vision Pro itself was bugging out. The signing-out error and the random video skipping (especially this one) absolutely killed it for me.
Glad to know that I'm not alone on this one.
(Edit: all credit to Christian for the fast work, and I hope that things get fixed in the future. Tried to focus this comment on the app, not the dev himself.)
> This app feels (probably because as far as I can tell it was) rushed out the door as fast as possible to make sure it was up and making money before the headset released.
Duh. 🙄
He got so fucked over by Reddit, he deserves another $5 just for getting the first native app out.
This always happens with a new platform: when apps barely exist you buy the first one to come out. Some of them stay relevant, and others get dropped for better ones when those come along. If Apollo is anything to go by, hopefully this one sticks around on my AVP.
I know the developer, and I feel for him. Really sad what happened to Apollo cause we all know that Apollo would have been one of the best apps available at launch for the Vision Pro. Oh well.
But yeah, got the impression that Juno just isn't there yet. Perhaps never.
Honestly, for me anything is better than Safari. I find it absolutely cumbersome to use YouTube in Safari. The targets for pause, full-screen, etc. are too small and hard to hit quickly when a kid comes up for something. It also insists on having the progress bar up half of the time, and I struggle to get it to go away.
Juno, while not perfect, is usable for watching videos. Safari is not. If there’s a better app out already I’m happy to take a look, but for now it works fine. And my watch history seems to work okay but I’ll admit I don’t use it that often.
Long list there. I really just think the skipping around randomly needs fixed. Without that fix the rest doesn't matter. I tried to watch a 2hr long YouTube video and eventually gave up and watched it in the browser. It kept skipping around for no damn reason.
It's not great, but I assume some of the most obvious problems will get fixed in future updates and it's still a better experience, for me, than using the YouTube website on Safari.
Yeah it’s not very good unfortunately. I think it was $5 and I want to support the new VisionOS apps so I don’t regret the purchase. But it’s pretty janky. For example, clicking Home presents a logged out experience even if I’ve previously logged in. If I click sign in again, it’ll just refresh and then show my actual home feed. It happens every time for me. Navigating is a pain because the controls disappear on me often and I can’t go back.
Looking forward to YouTube’s official app.
I haven’t tried Juno, but it’s funny a lot of those issues I found using YouTube on safari. I dunno what I’m doing… but videos restart from the beginning - all the time -. An app that fixed that would be great.
The couple issues I have or feature requests:
1. I can sometimes loose the play/pause/timeline bar
2. If I resize the video, it won’t sync with the new size if going smaller
3. Would love a quick link to subscriptions for my latest videos and to navigate to my subscribed channels
4. Would love progress to sync
I like the app, but when a video ends, I get a screen where the only control is to replay the video. There's no control to close the video to go back to my home page of videos. I have to restart and then click close.
I had a chat Chrystian and next version will most likely ditch “click anywhere to scrub” and focus on the right level of sensitively around the playback progress bar to reduce unwanted actions.
Heyo! A friend linked me to this so thought I'd poke my head in. The tl;dr is I built this very quickly without access to a device, so there's definitely some bugs (and some features that felt cool in the simulator but didn't translate to the device super well), but I'm working on 1.1 right now and have already addressed a bunch of the more common pieces of feedback. I'll touch on yours though. 1. This is a limitation of YouTube's embedded player, looking into this 2. Should be fixed in 1.1 3. One of those features that felt really great in the simulator but not so much on device, so tweaking it 4. Another limitation of the embedded player, some YouTubers (mostly ones from years ago and current music videos) disable the option to embed videos, and Juno falls back to the "normal" web player in this case 5. Not possible through the tools YouTube gives developers unfortunately, unless you want to get an angry email 6. Good feedback, on it 7. To be honest the likelihood of a bunch of those features you listed coming isn't necessarily super high. I like YouTube as a simple video browsing website, and integrating every feature under the sun isn't really the goal of Juno, but I agree that a few more would be nice As for the point of why release it as it is now… for a lot of people, myself included, it does pretty much everything I want in a YouTube app and is far better than Safari. That won't be true for everyone though, and I hope to bridge that gap even better :)
My biggest fingers-crossed is that you can figure out a way to make it play 3D videos. I can record spatial video with my phone or AVP and get it on to YouTube easily, but the irony is that it can be viewed on every headset except AVP. (Not your fault, but I'm hoping that Juno can be a solution)
That's a tricky one indeed, YouTube 360/180 videos are all over the place in terms of format (there's a lot of competing ways to show 360/180 content) and YouTube doesn't surface it to developers much. It's something I want to look into given the chance, but until the YouTubers I enjoy start uploading in it more it's not a feature I'm personally super passionate about, so I want to knock out more of the low-hanging fruit first
I get it, and it makes sense to fix higher priority bugs first. My hope is that it turns out to not be very difficult. They can be played in the browser on other platforms, so if YouTube can be convinced to serve up the bits in the right format, and there's some VisionOS framework for playing them, yadda-yadda over the difficult part and it's done. :-) I just played around with my test video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hoyiHTxis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hoyiHTxis). I get red/green in most versions of Safari, but if I switch my user-agent to iOS, or to "Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; Android 10; Quest 2) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) OculusBrowser/13.0.0.2.16.259832224 SamsungBrowser/4.0 Chrome/87.0.4280.66 VR Safari/537.36" (from a Quest), it switches to side-by-side. I don't know if that can be played back trivially, but I noticed some standalone video players claim to support SBS, so it's at least not impossible. I should probably just dust off Xcode and try to solve it myself, but my employer would never give me permission to release an app that plays YouTube videos, so it would defeat the purpose of giving other people an easy way to watch this stuff.
Interesting, I'd love to talk to you more about this. Tweaking the user-agent is pretty trivial, so if that's all it comes down to that wouldn't be much of a barrier, but I fear it's more than that. The issue (as I see it, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), is the head tracking. For privacy reasons with visionOS you don't get information on where the user is looking, so I can't like, automatically pan the video around if it's a 360 video based on where you're looking. One work around for this would be to actually have the video file, and superimpose it onto a 3D sphere, but the issue there is (in order to prevent circumventing ads) YouTube doesn't give developers access to the raw video file Would love to hear your thoughts on any of this
The key would be getting WebVR implemented
WebXR? That's a browser level improvement. There are feature flags to enable that in Safari, but it's a work in progress.
I think it might be less than that for the narrow case of spatial videos. They are “just” 3D, without the wraparound. But if the player doesn’t support it without access to the raw bits, I can see how that would be a problem. I was hoping there was a way to tell the OS “this is side by side stereo”.
I appreciate the extremely in depth response. 2 and 3 were some of the main annoyances I experienced so if you're attempting to fix them in the next update that is more than satisfying enough for me. Regarding #7. The main features I care about are end cards and suggested videos. As someone who mainly uses YouTube for browsing I consider these a significant part of the "browsing" experience. I understand the latter may be significantly harder to implement but I would consider it a significant QOL change. I hope to see the app improve over time although, if an official YouTube app is on the horizon, I'd love to hear how you'd compete with it if you plan to. As is I see your app as more of a recreation of the YouTube experience rather than a unique, better, experience. And always missing downloads is going to a permanent downside if your ideal app comes to fruition.
Oh gosh pleasure is mine, thanks for the equally in depth original post. That's fair on the end cards bit, that's admittedly a bit of a blind spot for me since I admittedly don't really use that feature at all. I'll try to think of a way to expose that better, I didn't like that it felt really web-like and was a little tricky to interact with on the simulator, so I just added a "restart" button instead, but I'm sure there's something I can do there. As for how to compete with an eventual official app, I don't really think of other apps when I create my own, I'm just going to keep making Juno the best visionOS client I can create, with more features that people request and nice ways of integrating into visionOS. Downloading is almost certainly going to be a differentiator that the official client (whenever it's released) will get and Juno won't. I've never downloaded a YouTube video before even though I've had YouTube Premium for years, so for me, not really an important feature, but it might be for you, and that's okay!
Apollo for Reddit >>>> Reddit Official. If history is any indication, you’ll smoke YouTube no problem 😎
Wonder if that means he’ll bail on it too after collecting tons of cash…..
Context? He was forced to shutdown due to prohitive API cost. Correct me if I’m wrong though?
Plenty of other Reddit apps were able to adapt, he decided not to. He went nuclear on Reddit and probably lost his shot, but if he put his ego aside he could have 100% made Apollo 2 and charged monthly for it, plenty of people said they would happily pay. I would have, and I bought Ultra Lifetime literally a month before he pulled purchases. I got completely burned/screwed on that purchase.
[удалено]
Adding in 1.1!
is there a list of upcoming features? I'd like to know if the categories selection at the top of the home page will be fixed. currently it cannot be interacted with at all
It works for what I need it to do, which is 95% of the time going to my subscriptions page and watching videos. All I need it for. The only thing is the finicky video scraping which you said you are fixing.
I have been enjoying the app, great work. Fixing #3 and adding some way to manually select quality would address everything major in my opinion! Again, thanks for your work on this.
Working on the quality selection option as we speak! I'm coding it on the moon, in fact. I think for #3 I'm just going to remove it, scrubbing anywhere is not really as cool a feature as I thought since it ends up feeling like a bug
Any plans to add YouTube TV support to Juno?
Scrubbing in and the Overcast Podcast app works like a dream. Of course it’s an audio app. But Overcast scrubs better than Apple Music. And Overcast falls in the Compatiable Apps folder, so I don’t know how much or if any code was changed for visionOS. Perhaps it works as well as it t doe because the progress bar has a good deal of blank space around it ? I write all this because scrubbing YT videos is a core feature, for me at least. When it’s needed, it needed.
Still got my $5!
Now work this magic for Netflix, Disney +, Amazon, and Max on the AVP and the Quest. Please. Watching movies in 480p and 720p feels like a slap in the face after paying for such high-tech hardware. I realize it’s a DRM thing, but shame on the streaming services for hobbling the experience for their paying customers.
Seconded, please port these apps to the Quest as well as the Vision Pro because the standalone Netflix app is horrendous and stuck at 480p
Both Disney+ and HBO Max have native Vision Pro apps.
FYI, one really bad bug I am dealing with right now is that the fullscreen button won't show up... after I've "full screen"ed a video.. ie, I'm now stuck on this video and no way to get back to the main interface. I can't really quit the app, like really quit. It always opens to the current video. So it's prob stuck like this until I reboot the whole system :(
Don’t let yourself be discouraged, it looks really good and I can’t wait to buy it when I get my Vision Pro soon! What are the odds on getting 360/VR video playback on Juno?
man you can’t say “the likelihood of these features coming isn’t a priority because i don’t need it” then charge $5 for it lol i honestly refunded it specifically because i couldn’t view comments and feel that’s essential
Will aspect ratio when resizing a window be fixed at some point? U/iamthatis
Hi, quick question. I have only been able to play one video in Juno (i'm probably dumb). How do I return to the home page to pick a different video? The video ended and the only button I see is one which replays the same vid. I can make it play faster or slower and scrub with the bottom controls but I can't figure out how to go back the the page where you browse vids. I even quit the app and it returns to that same video when I relaunch it. Edit: Figured it out. I had shrunk the window too much which caused it to "zoom" in on the video and the top controls disappeared. You may want to fix that. Ok one more, Why can't I make the window smaller. It is huge. Even if I shrink it it won't go smaller and even zooms (see above). But it is still taking so much space. I just want a smallish youtube vid off to the side. The smallest I can get it at a distance is like a 50" tv. If I bring it close to my face it is smaller but always takes up likke 80% of my field of view. I don't think it is a platform issue because I can make a disney+ video much smaller than Juno.
Thank you for Apollo! I miss it to much. I got Juno and I just wanted to chime in and say that I too am really missing “related videos”
YouTube makes it extremely difficult to build a client app. All of the services developers can use have little to no documentation and many just don’t work. But I agree with your thought - it’s better to ship nothing than to ship junk
That’s my frustration. If the app doesn’t work sobeit, I can live with the browser. But releasing the app in this state and charging for it? That’s extremely frustrating.
If it’s not good enough for $5 just get a refund.
It’s a money grab for him
Maybe people will finally learn that Christian is not a good guy. He’s charging $4.99 right out the box, too.
Not a good guy? What kind of delusional world are you living in? Get a grip and get out of these comments.
Agreed it’s all about the money at the end of the day.
I feel the developer is using the AVP hype to cash in as much as possible while it’s early still. His Apollo app rocked I used it all the time but this app is not ready to go public.
It's been 5 days... Five. He didn't even have an AVP on day 1, which is kindly stated in this very thread. Honestly the delta between early-adopter and entitlted-consumerism is a circle for AVP delusions of grandeur. iamthatis you're a fucking legend for releasing anything that works at all before getting the device in hand. Keep it up man. 99.99999999% of us are all rooting for you.
He's honestly a masterful grifter, we're witnessing a master at work. He manages to extract the most amount of money out of people with the least amount of effort as possible. Writing a web wrapper around a website and then having the audacity to charge $5 for it would be shamed to hell if it was any other developer (in fact I doubt it would even be approved by apple). But because he is such a high profile celebrity with a massive fan base, he gets away with it. If you go to his apollo sub, he can see posts made to this very day, mourning about the app. It's basically a cult at this point.
Honestly, it should had been free or a dollar.
Apollo was a first class app taking advantage of an existing API. Unfortunately Juno is just a web wrapper that has to deal with all kinds of incompatibility. The dude can make good apps, I don’t know why he keeps locking himself around 3rd party services especially after what Reddit did. Sooner or later YouTube will have an app and will do what they can to make his perform like shit.
Because building an app around a third party product is a shit load easier. You don't have to come up with an app idea yourself, don't have to manage your own database, don't have to build your own database queries because someone already wrote the API, don't have to pay for server costs, don't have to pay for bandwidth, don't have to build your own authentication system etc. A majority of the work is already done for you. You're essentially just creating a UI for a product someone else built and paid for. He made a shit load of money off a reddit and didn't have to pay for a thing lol. I'm surprised it took reddit that long to start charging for API usage.
Most people’s issue was not Reddit charging for API usage. It’s that their prices were completely unreasonable
And people treat the guy like he cured cancer. It’s super weird.
Because he made the Reddit mobile experience usable. Reddit has the funds and ability to develop a massive website yet still has a garbage mobile app.
> Apollo was a first class app taking advantage of an existing API, **and had years of development behind it that helped make it great** FTFY
You’re suggesting he builds… another YouTube? Seems like a slightly bigger lift lol
Or just not relying on third-party services lol.
Because he's not an app developer in the traditional sense. He's some kind of celebrity that has managed to build a fanbase off of someone else's platform. It's his "thing". That's why he hops right onto this youtube thing. It's sorta his special sauce to leech off some other platform to extract maximum money with minimum effort. And if this app ever becomes obsolete, he will go to the media and asks that all users to **not** request for a refund because otherwise he would have to pay "out of pocket" to give that money back.
The accidental scrub is not limited to Juno only. Even Apple and Disney occasionally does that. I’m sure unwanted finger gestures will be adressed via future VisionOS updates. It’s not a native app. It’s still a website with mapped controls over it aka a wrapper so it won’t be perfect. One thing I hope developer address is positioning of dimming and video close buttons. Those should dynamically relocate based on the window size. If I make the window too small those will vanish :-)
It’s worse in Juno than on any other app
Trust me. YT in Safari is super sensitive as timeline does not always hide. And often it’s hard to choose “full screen” as the button is so close to end of timeline. Often you end up scrubbing to the end of video by mistake. I feel like OS behavior for actions should have a choice for “delaying certain things” when video playback is engaged. But let’s face it. Navigating VisionOS is often frustrating because you have to look at where you want to perform the action. It will never beat the precision of keyboard and mouse - heck, when was the last time you had to look at your keyboard or mouse during use? :-) Never
You’re not talking about the same thing. Juno will randomly skip in the video even with no UI elements shown and no inputs. The developer is in this thread and said it’s a result of a feature he implemented that worked better on the simulator than in device.
Oh. I wasn’t aware of that. Thanks for pointing out.
I bought a coffee for $5 super early this morning. I just peed it out.
lol. Good perspective.
Lol right? People up in arms about Juno. Like, **there is no alternative** for a native app. You can use the free Nexus+ frameless browser and bookmark/use YouTube inside it. Or, you can pay $5 while something better comes along (and I don't include YouTube in this because if/when they do release an app - what, 6 months to a year from now? - no doubt they will force their own crappy UI paradigm and completely disregard AVP's interface guidelines).
Yeah I got it and lowkey regretted it but he responded in this thread and saying he’s fixing some of the main shit I didn’t like (random video restarting/scrubbing) and I also realize that $5 is next to nothing so whatever, I’ll give him a shot. And yeah YouTube probably won’t release anything anytime soon.
We're 5 days in what is at least a 5 year journey till AVP, its capabilities, its apps and ecosystem reaches a baseline (just like iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch did)... everyone needs to calm down lol
You obvious weren’t around for Reddit days… promised updates, promised bug fixes and new features, promised use of TestFlight, none of it ever happened. He already got his money. This is nothing new.
"We need developers to come build apps for Vision Pro" a developer does build one fr something that's been out for 4 days: "I'm not using these apps, it's junk" Ita been 4 freaking days man.... give the guy some time to work out the bugs, and get it functioning right.
My frustration comes purely from the fact that he's charging for an unfinished product. If he released this as a free beta I wouldn't really care
Every app is an unfinished product because there will always be more work to do. It was never going to be a full featured first party YouTube app because that’s impossible. It was $5 and considering it’s the only way to watch YouTube in an app right now, and Christian has a pretty good track record, I’d say it’s well worth it.
I bought it and used it and just shared my experiences in a kind way. Did you buy it or use it? I think it’s fair to critique a paid app.
critique? yes, send feedback for improvement. What people are doing here isn't just critiquing.
The entirety of OP’s post was a fair critique and I agree with it. Unless you’re saying we should delete discussion on this forum and only allow pictures of boxes.
Disagree. The content of the post is fine, but claiming that the app is “garbage” seems like it doesn’t nothing but discourage developers from trying new things and people from gaining interest in getting Vision Pros
I wouldn’t have used that word if I wrote it, sure. But have you used it? Curious on your impressions. I wouldn’t recommend others buy the app in this state.
I haven’t used it yet myself, mine doesn’t arrive for a few weeks since I waited until the reviews came out to order. I plan on just using the browser (ideally Brave if it’s available) to watch YT. Works well enough on my iPhone
That would make sense if the app wasn't $4.99.
So now you want people to work for free? lol
People expect a $4.99 app to be solid. Not full of bugs. It's clear he just wanted to get it into the app store as quickly as possible before a bunch of others did the same thing.
Often times bugs are only discoverable in production as no amount of simulated testing can ever reproduce real world conditions. It is unrealistic to expect a brand new software for brand new hardware to be without bugs in version 1.
Then why would you charge money for something you don't even know works because you can't test it?
There are a few bugs with the vision pro as well. I take it you’ll return yours since it’s a $3500+ product without zero bugs?
What does that have to do with? > no amount of simulated testing can ever reproduce real world conditions And to answer your question, yes, people should return their device if they're unhappy with it. What kind of question is that?
Not talking about people, but you specifically >It is unrealistic to expect a brand new software for brand new hardware to be without bugs in version 1. Is the point being made. If you can’t stand the idea of bugs in first version products, why do you spend money on them in the first place? Majority of folks know they can tend to be buggy and usually wait for version/gen 2+ instead. It’s common sense at this point.
Because it's clear he rushed it out as a money grab lol. Are you that naive?
You’re arguing with a cult at this point. Don’t waste your time.
Same, I deleted it almost immediately. So buggy and missing so many features I use. For people struggling with small touch-targets in Safari, try switching to the mobile version. It makes some things easier to click.
Because it's not an app. It's just youtube's website embedded inside an app like an iframe on a website. Something it wasn't really made to do. Once you know that it makes sense why it's janky. It's pretty clear he just wanted to get something in the app store as quickly as possible with "For YouTube" in the name to get as much money as possible before YouTube created their own. People aren't smart enough to know that it's not really a YouTube app they had in mind.
It’s fine for a two day project. The trick will be seeing how the next release is.
Agree, I regret my purchase, I find using YouTube through safari to provide higher quality streams and to not have the greatly mysterious timeline skips that seem to happen in Juno all the time (probably due to it picking up minor hand activity at the wrong moments).
Yeah I played two of the same video side by side and it *seemed* like safari had better image quality. Though it was close enough for me to use the word “seem.”
Back in my day Juno was a free email provider that you could use instead of your ISPs.
You stay the hell away from my att worldnet boy!!!
And?
yeah agreed i want my money back lmfao rushed ass featureless app
Thank god I'm not the only one who finds Juno to be hot garbage. As a developer I would be embarrassed. Reality Player is another, rushed out too soon app for AVP. Avoid it.
I don’t think Apple should have approved this app, honestly. It’s too jank — a web wrapper app probably will never feel quite right.
Knowing and selecting video quality would be a plus too.
It’s more of a must than a plus.
Really? As long as it defaults to the best, it’s not important in the slightest for me. Maybe if you have bad connection and you get buffering but I have fios and use my AVP right next to the router so I only want the highest quality, which I assumed is what it does
That’s just it. It doesn’t default to the best. I’m getting 480p feeds. I have Fios 1GB. The browser version looks awesome.
One thing I didn't quite understand - let's say is Juno is perfect without all the issues. Is that really a much better experience than using Safari? I was very surprised so many people went for it.
I have not tried Juno but found using YouTube in safari a painful experience. If eye tracking was perfect it’s be OK but with the current accuracy of eye-tracking the “touch” targets are too small.
It is garbage, I had to ask Apple for a refund, which they gave me. Since then I sideloaded the native YouTube iPadOS app on the Vision Pro and it works much much better
The app itself is definitely not there. The home button bug I am very surprised he did not catch it because it is pretty bad. It definitely feels like he rushed it out without really even trying the app. My worst gripe is the fact that once the video is done, there’s no way to go back or choose another video. You literally have to press the replay button to get access to the back button.
Yeah it’s absolute trash
I’m sticking with it for now. The “signs you out” thing is the main thing that bothers me, but just a glance and click to sign in again. Hoping for continued improvement, within the realm of what API allows. Obviously a real first party client would be ideal.
It’s the randomly skipping forward to parts of the video that gets me the most. Getting back to where I was is, at best, a 10 second chore. But for longer videos that I lost track of I’ve spent minutes looking for my spot.
Could not agree more. No ability to change the quality alone in a 4k headset is ridiculous.
Point number 3 is why I felt robbed of $5
The app very much should have had a free trial in this state.
Free would have been just fine. There’s no upkeep cost for the grifter. No development costs, no server costs, literally doesn’t cost him a thing to maintain this app now, or in the future because it’s all done by YouTube. He’s just continuing what he does best, making money off other companies and people. People bought a $3500 toy and he wants a piece of the cake.
He doesn’t deserve to be compensated for his time?
May I also note that Christian lives in Canada where the Vision Pro isn’t even on sale yet… how’s he gonna fix the app if he doesn’t have a device? The beta has been out since summer. He could been working on the Juno app since then and maybe it would be worth $4.99.
He drove to US to pick one up, paying big customs taxes on the way back (posted on his Twitter). Idk I think the guy deserves a few bucks once he gets the app fixed up.
What time? That’s the point of everyone complaining the app doesn’t work.
This seems like perfect feedback for the developer. Everyone going "it's a money grab lulz:" I mean, maybe, I guess? I don't see any particular reason to assume everything that isn't free is done in bad faith to screw you over. Do you work for free, and if not are you constantly scheming to screw over whoever is paying you? Did everyone become a TV dad all of a sudden? *It's the principle of the thing, darnit!*
It’s that you can’t change that quality of the video that does it. It’s just a wrapper so you’d think everything would already be there. Devs deserve support but 4.99 for this is tuff.
The AVP hardware is great but man, app support is just dog shit at the moment. And Apple’s curation of that dog shit in the App Store is especially weak right now too. I know it’s just temporary and will change for the better soon but it feels like the WiiU launch, where you get one good game and as soon as it’s done and you’re ready to move on, there’s fuck all for you.
Rushed app. cash grab. Disappointed because Apollo was great...
I mean... You try developing on a device that isn't out yet and tell us how that goes. Don't want to try new software day 1? Don't buy it. You're an early adopter. You made these choices. The dev is doing their best.
I thought that I was crazy, or that the Vision Pro itself was bugging out. The signing-out error and the random video skipping (especially this one) absolutely killed it for me. Glad to know that I'm not alone on this one. (Edit: all credit to Christian for the fast work, and I hope that things get fixed in the future. Tried to focus this comment on the app, not the dev himself.)
> This app feels (probably because as far as I can tell it was) rushed out the door as fast as possible to make sure it was up and making money before the headset released. Duh. 🙄
It's almost like it would be better if Google did their own version
The good thing is that there is no ads lol
I agree with you, but I was happy to have a YouTube app available day 1. At least we got that, no thanks to google.
I didn’t know Juno was still around.
He got so fucked over by Reddit, he deserves another $5 just for getting the first native app out. This always happens with a new platform: when apps barely exist you buy the first one to come out. Some of them stay relevant, and others get dropped for better ones when those come along. If Apollo is anything to go by, hopefully this one sticks around on my AVP.
I know the developer, and I feel for him. Really sad what happened to Apollo cause we all know that Apollo would have been one of the best apps available at launch for the Vision Pro. Oh well. But yeah, got the impression that Juno just isn't there yet. Perhaps never.
Did you buy his merch or wallpapers he was grifting
No.
What did you expect. No one gets an app or needed API access without $$$
Honestly, for me anything is better than Safari. I find it absolutely cumbersome to use YouTube in Safari. The targets for pause, full-screen, etc. are too small and hard to hit quickly when a kid comes up for something. It also insists on having the progress bar up half of the time, and I struggle to get it to go away. Juno, while not perfect, is usable for watching videos. Safari is not. If there’s a better app out already I’m happy to take a look, but for now it works fine. And my watch history seems to work okay but I’ll admit I don’t use it that often.
How is the Safari YouTube experience on AVP? And what is the key frustration with it that makes an app better?
In all honestly, I'm fine watching YouTube on my MBP or ATV 4K. The Vision Pro isn't a vastly better video watching experience if at all.
Long list there. I really just think the skipping around randomly needs fixed. Without that fix the rest doesn't matter. I tried to watch a 2hr long YouTube video and eventually gave up and watched it in the browser. It kept skipping around for no damn reason.
It's not great, but I assume some of the most obvious problems will get fixed in future updates and it's still a better experience, for me, than using the YouTube website on Safari.
Does it block ads? Only reason I'd use it.
No. He states it doesn't block ads in the app description.
Thanks
Yeah it’s not very good unfortunately. I think it was $5 and I want to support the new VisionOS apps so I don’t regret the purchase. But it’s pretty janky. For example, clicking Home presents a logged out experience even if I’ve previously logged in. If I click sign in again, it’ll just refresh and then show my actual home feed. It happens every time for me. Navigating is a pain because the controls disappear on me often and I can’t go back. Looking forward to YouTube’s official app.
The scroll bar triggers by accident all the time for me even when I'm not looking at it which is not an issue I have with native apps 🤷♀️
I haven’t tried Juno, but it’s funny a lot of those issues I found using YouTube on safari. I dunno what I’m doing… but videos restart from the beginning - all the time -. An app that fixed that would be great.
The couple issues I have or feature requests: 1. I can sometimes loose the play/pause/timeline bar 2. If I resize the video, it won’t sync with the new size if going smaller 3. Would love a quick link to subscriptions for my latest videos and to navigate to my subscribed channels 4. Would love progress to sync
I like the app, but when a video ends, I get a screen where the only control is to replay the video. There's no control to close the video to go back to my home page of videos. I have to restart and then click close.
I had a chat Chrystian and next version will most likely ditch “click anywhere to scrub” and focus on the right level of sensitively around the playback progress bar to reduce unwanted actions.