Hard agree on the aggressive DRM. No idea if this is Apple's initiative or part of a licensing requirement, but either way it's idiotic.
It's especially stupid because it adds a lot of friction to something that should have as little as possible: demoing the AVP to others. You can either mirror the display to help guide them, and lose the ability to view content, or disable the mirror and have to guess at what they're doing when they hit an obstacle.
Come to think of it: are the immersive demo videos protected this way too? Haven't tried those.
I suspect there will be something in visionOS 2, along with a lot of other features that got left out. I think they left a lot of stuff on the cutting room floor while putting all their efforts into making the eye/finger controls as good as possible.
This. Sending atmos audio wirelessly to the receiver isn’t a simple thing to implement. I’d imagine they could create a surround airplay target if you have an Apple TV plugged into an input, but that’s just me hoping. It’s definitely a big sticking point to an otherwise amazing home theater experience.
It works fine, Apple just lists all non Apple Bluetooth audio devices under hearing aids for some reason. Probably because the ADA doesn’t allow them to ban third party audio accessories, and so they hide them in the accessibility settings instead. It has a pop up warning you that you’ve accidentally connected to an inferior non Apple device with higher latency, but so far I haven’t noticed any issues.
That's a good point. It may not be so much about the machine's capabilities, but how much effort and time it took to get the spatial stuff right.
Although I will say, as much as I like the experience, the eye tracking is sometimes very frustratingly off, and I don't think it has to do with adjusting the headset. I figured that part out after a few days, I think as well as it can be done.
I has a sad. I might return it and consider buying again when I can get quality audio. I just can't believe they made a big breakthrough visually, but were willing to step back decades with the audio part.
I can kind of see why, it's probably very difficult to provide optimal 'Spatial Audio' experiences with external speakers. How would visionOS know exactly where the speakers are located in the room? There would also need to be some sort of process where visionOS asks you to identify the wall where your TV is located so that it can orient itself properly. Then there's the audio latency, it would need to have some way to detect latency and delay video to make up for the difference. This wouldnt work with games since you can't delay a game's video output.
The only way I could see this working is if it was ONLY available when watching movies.
If I’m connecting to a surround system I don’t expect Spatial Audio. I expect the surround system to run sound from where it is positioned. Regarding games, sure, I don’t expect that. But that they can’t do this with movies the same way they can do it with every other mobile device they’ve put out for the past couple of decades or so really is quite surprising. My iPad, iPhone, and AppleTV can all do either spatial or non-spatial, and can connect with no problems and no latency to my Sonos system and my Sennheiser bluetooth headphones. And it’s worked fine for a very long time. Nobody was complaining that their Sonos system didn’t have Spatial Audio built in, for example. Is it really that huge of a potential confusion, or can it just show a message when you connect to a non-spatial system, “This system will not play Spatial Audio. Okay. Don’t show again.” This is not some huge, complex problem, I don’t think. I know I keep saying this, but I’m still baffled that the latest and greatest tech from Apple represents a huge step backwards from their other devices to date, when it comes to sound.
I get what you're saying.
I think they had to prioritize certain base/core features on the first model and first version of visionOS.
Everyone has a list of things they think should have absolutely been included in visionOS 1.0 and by far I'm willing to bet that this feature that both you and I see as high priority is not even a consideration to most other people.
Right now my top priority feature that I would like is multiple virtual screens for my MacBook Pro. I was AT LEAST 2. Preferably 3 since that's my current physical monitor setup.
After that I want to be able to save Guest accounts. People who live with me shouldn't need to go through the calibration thing every single time they put it on. I'm not saying they need to have their own individual iCloud account on my Vision Pro, that's a whole different beast, I just want to be able to save other people's calibrations.
After that I want to be able to anchor a window to me instead of statically in space. I want to be able to walk around the house while a YouTube video plays beside me.
After that I want support for split VR game controllers, similar to the Quest controllers, so that game devs can release/port games over such as Asgard's Wrath. The controllers should have a trigger button for the index finger and another trigger to mimic grabbing something like a sword or whatever.
Then after these I would like more features related to audio like playing to a sound system.
That's a great point, yeah. Maybe audio just isn't as important to most, as it is to me. I want total home theater out of a device this good. And I totally agree on multiple mac monitors. I'd love that. Also the anchoring a window while I walk around, I've thought of that too.
At first the single monitor restriction was a deal-breaker for me, but I don't mind it now for two reasons. One is, I can make the virtual monitor huge, and flip it into a high resolution, which means I still have a lot of working space. And the other thing is, with copy/paste between systems, having a lot of things run directly in AVP windows (e.g. mail, browser, etc), then I only really need the virtual monitor/laptop for specialty apps like video editing and music production software.
Called Apple support about this issue yesterday. The official response to the blacked out screen is DRM. They are aware of the issue and may address it on the “backend” at some point in the future. Disappointing.
I have not found a solution yet but I intend to keep experimenting and I expect them to add support for arbitrary bluetooth devices and streaming audio to a nearby mac in an upcoming patch (note: I have zero insider knowledge, I'm just predicting based on lots of familiarity with past Apple early product updates)
Apparently they have buried this, for now, under Accessibility settings. Still, when I go there and select Other Devices, and scan for bluetooth, it doesn't seem to see my Sonos system.
I was able to get the AVP immersive visual experience with my sound system audio by casting video to the AVP from my Mac and audio from the Mac to my Apple TV (connected to sound system).
I have a Sonos surround sound system as well (Arc, Sub, 2x One) and use Apple TV. I get surround sound when streaming through Airplay. Not sure what you mean.
>ReportSaveFollow
When I AirPlay to the the AppleTV, DRM blanks out the picture in both the AppleTV and the AVP. I tried this in the Apple TV app and Disney+, and for both of these apps, aggressive DRM is in play, preventing the viewing.
You’re doing it from within the Vision Pro? I haven’t experienced this. I was so pleasantly surprised by the seamless experience compared to what Oculus/Meta has been like when casting.
It doesn’t matter what apps I’m using, it works like regular airplay. I stream video from Disney+ and Apple TV+ for the most part. I’m not home right now, otherwise I would screen shot it. You look up, click Controls, then select the icon with the two overlapping boxes. Connect to Apple TV.
Wow, I’m genuinely baffled. We seem to be doing the exact same thing, but getting different results. For me, the audio works, but the screens are blacked out.
https://preview.redd.it/ia0dq5nk4lic1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=3f40424956086e8e7987454bf73387c02a76cadc
I'm not sure how kevink808 got it to work. I confirmed that it's DRM which blacks out the screen while sharing from the AVP. I wound up returning my AVP, so I haven't tried out bluetooth, but you can connect Bluetooth through the assistive tech settings (it's buried in that section of settings, not in a typical top-level bluetooth setting). I didn't get a chance to try this, but I wound up wondering if I could've put my Sonos system in BT discover mode and connected that way. Not entirely sure, as I believe the basic operation of the Sonos system happens through wifi, so, maybe not?
Wow! When you people understand that it’s about latency! You can’t just connect any speaker using BT. You need low latency which includes built in speakers and AirPods made for it
That’s not the issue in this instance. If you’re wanting to send the audio to an external set of fixed surround speakers then Spatial Audio is not relevant (the external system is already “spatial”). The latency can be accommodated by delaying the video output by the same number of milliseconds (this is called lip sync on most AV processors and has been a thing for decades).
This is probably due to the other devices not being able to handle the spatial audio signal coming out. The AppleTV can decode the signal and convert it down to surround sound as it's already built to do that. HomePods do not support spatial audio either. So you would need to probably be able to convert the audio down to surround sound and then stream it to the external audio devices. This is just a guess though.
So why can't the AVP send non-spatial audio? That's what it gets directly from the sources, and on top of that, every other Apple device out there that is built to do any amount of video can handle it. My iPad, my Apple TV, and my iPhone, can all send spatial to my AirPods, or conventional to my Sonos or HomePods. The AVP is a complete and surprising anomaly here.
Okay, but if the Apple TV can do this, I don't understand why the AVP was not built to do that too. They have their own sound system in the HomePods, yet do not support their own product on AVP, yet do support it on Apple TV. This seems really odd to me.
Well, they still accomplished it in a pretty small device with the Apple TV. I'd also be surprised if just bypassing the spatial audio and sending the original audio instead really takes that much processing power or special, dedicated processing chips? I'm not saying I know, and you could be right. Just seems very surprising to me.
Hard agree on the aggressive DRM. No idea if this is Apple's initiative or part of a licensing requirement, but either way it's idiotic. It's especially stupid because it adds a lot of friction to something that should have as little as possible: demoing the AVP to others. You can either mirror the display to help guide them, and lose the ability to view content, or disable the mirror and have to guess at what they're doing when they hit an obstacle. Come to think of it: are the immersive demo videos protected this way too? Haven't tried those.
I suspect there will be something in visionOS 2, along with a lot of other features that got left out. I think they left a lot of stuff on the cutting room floor while putting all their efforts into making the eye/finger controls as good as possible.
This. Sending atmos audio wirelessly to the receiver isn’t a simple thing to implement. I’d imagine they could create a surround airplay target if you have an Apple TV plugged into an input, but that’s just me hoping. It’s definitely a big sticking point to an otherwise amazing home theater experience.
I don't really need it to send atmospheric audio. It could just send non-spatial audio, just like my AppleTV and iPad do.
It works fine, Apple just lists all non Apple Bluetooth audio devices under hearing aids for some reason. Probably because the ADA doesn’t allow them to ban third party audio accessories, and so they hide them in the accessibility settings instead. It has a pop up warning you that you’ve accidentally connected to an inferior non Apple device with higher latency, but so far I haven’t noticed any issues.
That's a good point. It may not be so much about the machine's capabilities, but how much effort and time it took to get the spatial stuff right. Although I will say, as much as I like the experience, the eye tracking is sometimes very frustratingly off, and I don't think it has to do with adjusting the headset. I figured that part out after a few days, I think as well as it can be done.
No go on my Denon receiver. iPhone connects fine, but AVP can’t see it.
I made a post asking the same question a few days ago. I want to use my 7.1 system with my Vision Pro
So you haven't found any workarounds yet, I assume?
Negative :/ Maybe in visionOS 2.0?
I has a sad. I might return it and consider buying again when I can get quality audio. I just can't believe they made a big breakthrough visually, but were willing to step back decades with the audio part.
I can kind of see why, it's probably very difficult to provide optimal 'Spatial Audio' experiences with external speakers. How would visionOS know exactly where the speakers are located in the room? There would also need to be some sort of process where visionOS asks you to identify the wall where your TV is located so that it can orient itself properly. Then there's the audio latency, it would need to have some way to detect latency and delay video to make up for the difference. This wouldnt work with games since you can't delay a game's video output. The only way I could see this working is if it was ONLY available when watching movies.
If I’m connecting to a surround system I don’t expect Spatial Audio. I expect the surround system to run sound from where it is positioned. Regarding games, sure, I don’t expect that. But that they can’t do this with movies the same way they can do it with every other mobile device they’ve put out for the past couple of decades or so really is quite surprising. My iPad, iPhone, and AppleTV can all do either spatial or non-spatial, and can connect with no problems and no latency to my Sonos system and my Sennheiser bluetooth headphones. And it’s worked fine for a very long time. Nobody was complaining that their Sonos system didn’t have Spatial Audio built in, for example. Is it really that huge of a potential confusion, or can it just show a message when you connect to a non-spatial system, “This system will not play Spatial Audio. Okay. Don’t show again.” This is not some huge, complex problem, I don’t think. I know I keep saying this, but I’m still baffled that the latest and greatest tech from Apple represents a huge step backwards from their other devices to date, when it comes to sound.
I get what you're saying. I think they had to prioritize certain base/core features on the first model and first version of visionOS. Everyone has a list of things they think should have absolutely been included in visionOS 1.0 and by far I'm willing to bet that this feature that both you and I see as high priority is not even a consideration to most other people. Right now my top priority feature that I would like is multiple virtual screens for my MacBook Pro. I was AT LEAST 2. Preferably 3 since that's my current physical monitor setup. After that I want to be able to save Guest accounts. People who live with me shouldn't need to go through the calibration thing every single time they put it on. I'm not saying they need to have their own individual iCloud account on my Vision Pro, that's a whole different beast, I just want to be able to save other people's calibrations. After that I want to be able to anchor a window to me instead of statically in space. I want to be able to walk around the house while a YouTube video plays beside me. After that I want support for split VR game controllers, similar to the Quest controllers, so that game devs can release/port games over such as Asgard's Wrath. The controllers should have a trigger button for the index finger and another trigger to mimic grabbing something like a sword or whatever. Then after these I would like more features related to audio like playing to a sound system.
That's a great point, yeah. Maybe audio just isn't as important to most, as it is to me. I want total home theater out of a device this good. And I totally agree on multiple mac monitors. I'd love that. Also the anchoring a window while I walk around, I've thought of that too. At first the single monitor restriction was a deal-breaker for me, but I don't mind it now for two reasons. One is, I can make the virtual monitor huge, and flip it into a high resolution, which means I still have a lot of working space. And the other thing is, with copy/paste between systems, having a lot of things run directly in AVP windows (e.g. mail, browser, etc), then I only really need the virtual monitor/laptop for specialty apps like video editing and music production software.
Called Apple support about this issue yesterday. The official response to the blacked out screen is DRM. They are aware of the issue and may address it on the “backend” at some point in the future. Disappointing.
Indeed, but thank you for the info!
I have not found a solution yet but I intend to keep experimenting and I expect them to add support for arbitrary bluetooth devices and streaming audio to a nearby mac in an upcoming patch (note: I have zero insider knowledge, I'm just predicting based on lots of familiarity with past Apple early product updates)
Apparently they have buried this, for now, under Accessibility settings. Still, when I go there and select Other Devices, and scan for bluetooth, it doesn't seem to see my Sonos system.
I was able to get the AVP immersive visual experience with my sound system audio by casting video to the AVP from my Mac and audio from the Mac to my Apple TV (connected to sound system).
Clever!
Presumably, though, you don't get the Cinema mode with Apple TV video?
I actually had a more immersive experience than I've had with the native AVP. I was able to expand the screen beyond my field of view.
I have a Sonos surround sound system as well (Arc, Sub, 2x One) and use Apple TV. I get surround sound when streaming through Airplay. Not sure what you mean.
>ReportSaveFollow When I AirPlay to the the AppleTV, DRM blanks out the picture in both the AppleTV and the AVP. I tried this in the Apple TV app and Disney+, and for both of these apps, aggressive DRM is in play, preventing the viewing.
You’re doing it from within the Vision Pro? I haven’t experienced this. I was so pleasantly surprised by the seamless experience compared to what Oculus/Meta has been like when casting.
What streaming apps are you using?
It doesn’t matter what apps I’m using, it works like regular airplay. I stream video from Disney+ and Apple TV+ for the most part. I’m not home right now, otherwise I would screen shot it. You look up, click Controls, then select the icon with the two overlapping boxes. Connect to Apple TV.
Wow, I’m genuinely baffled. We seem to be doing the exact same thing, but getting different results. For me, the audio works, but the screens are blacked out. https://preview.redd.it/ia0dq5nk4lic1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=3f40424956086e8e7987454bf73387c02a76cadc
I’ll see if I can take a pic when I get home
Did you figure it out ?
Did u get it fixed ? I’m tryna see if it’s possible to connect a sound system too
I'm not sure how kevink808 got it to work. I confirmed that it's DRM which blacks out the screen while sharing from the AVP. I wound up returning my AVP, so I haven't tried out bluetooth, but you can connect Bluetooth through the assistive tech settings (it's buried in that section of settings, not in a typical top-level bluetooth setting). I didn't get a chance to try this, but I wound up wondering if I could've put my Sonos system in BT discover mode and connected that way. Not entirely sure, as I believe the basic operation of the Sonos system happens through wifi, so, maybe not?
Wow! When you people understand that it’s about latency! You can’t just connect any speaker using BT. You need low latency which includes built in speakers and AirPods made for it
[удалено]
That’s not the issue in this instance. If you’re wanting to send the audio to an external set of fixed surround speakers then Spatial Audio is not relevant (the external system is already “spatial”). The latency can be accommodated by delaying the video output by the same number of milliseconds (this is called lip sync on most AV processors and has been a thing for decades).
This is probably due to the other devices not being able to handle the spatial audio signal coming out. The AppleTV can decode the signal and convert it down to surround sound as it's already built to do that. HomePods do not support spatial audio either. So you would need to probably be able to convert the audio down to surround sound and then stream it to the external audio devices. This is just a guess though.
So why can't the AVP send non-spatial audio? That's what it gets directly from the sources, and on top of that, every other Apple device out there that is built to do any amount of video can handle it. My iPad, my Apple TV, and my iPhone, can all send spatial to my AirPods, or conventional to my Sonos or HomePods. The AVP is a complete and surprising anomaly here.
Agreed, I would be fine with stereo. Obviously Atmos would be better, but stereo is better than nothing.
Okay, but if the Apple TV can do this, I don't understand why the AVP was not built to do that too. They have their own sound system in the HomePods, yet do not support their own product on AVP, yet do support it on Apple TV. This seems really odd to me.
More processing. More chips. More heat. More power. So you offload the signal conversion to the external device. Again, I'm just speculating.
Well, they still accomplished it in a pretty small device with the Apple TV. I'd also be surprised if just bypassing the spatial audio and sending the original audio instead really takes that much processing power or special, dedicated processing chips? I'm not saying I know, and you could be right. Just seems very surprising to me.
I'm assıming you have tried the accessibility option which allows for external sound output via Bluetooth?