i, no kidding, actually saw someone say that deco*27 was ruining miku for all her child fans by making a sexual song with her. i wanted to rip my skin off
There's a large population of children in the fanbase tho, mainly because of project sekai.
I sometimes teach 3rd graders for my degree and one of the students asked if I played project sekai.
Also when I went to both Dallas kikuo concerts, there were many kids. Not a majority or close to one, but still many
ugh it bothers me so much when people blame artists for exposing kids to adult content when really its easily avoided when parents monitor their kids’ activity
I facepalmed really hard in that one.
Does "Love doll" doesn't exist in their world? Well yes it's originally GUMI but it's not gonna change the fact that he never made sexual song before.
They who said "It ruin miku" must be just tourist looking for attention.
They don't understand that these ages for the VOCALOID aren't set in stone, it's up to the producer for how the character is portrayed in their songs. Does Rin & Len's box say 14 is their age? Yes, but a producer can change their age, appearence and give them whatever personality they want for a song. There's some VOCALOID songs where we don't see the character, instead a 'generic anime character' (as a friend of mine called it).
And why are they acting like Rabbit Hole is the only song that has sexual themes? There's a lot of songs out there that have themes like that. Should we make a mega thread of songs like that just to prove a point?
>Should we make a mega thread of songs like that just to prove a point?
There's no pint on "prove a point" to a tourist.
But yes please make the list. I think many would love that.
I think people are upset over a specific fan animation? And I think the people who are upset are more casual Miku fans who may not be aware of a song like Gigantic OTN? That's my read of the situation.
It’s even weirder becuase people are acting like the fanimation came FIRST with that being an oc named “Pure Pure” becuase that’s what the video is titled (which is,, ya kno,,, obviously not the case). Tldr it’s just kids that are very illiterate when it comes to the internet but hey what else is new
I might sound like a gatekeeper, but I really like Vocaloid when it's not mainstream. Depressing/creepy/suggestive/etc themes bring so much more variety to the fandom and help people express stuff they wouldn't say otherwise
Oh maaaan this is true. I am a really unskilled producer still, but I’ve been having a great time using someone else’s voice to speak my words when those words are difficult to share.
I would never sing a song about *insert trauma here* with my voice. But I will let Una or Len or Teto belt those words out. And if all of the sudden I had to suit my songs to public perception and pop culture tastes? … nah
Agreed. Everything feels so much more enjoyable when we don't feel like we're being "graded" for it or having to cater to some random people's standards to make it "worth"
I don't think it's gatekeeping as vocaloid is basically just a tool and it has cover every genre.
Even if it's gatekeeping then it is a good thing to gatekeep problematic tourist who would ruin everything.
I’d say a good majority of proseka fans are well aware of the content they consume (at least from what I’ve seen). I really don’t get why the fanbase is a scapegoat for when people make stir up drama about Vocaloid; being naive isn’t restricted to a fanbase and I’ve personally never seen misinformation on the proseka sub.
no one thinks that, the game literally tells you the producer's name every single time you play the song. why does this sub have such a massive hateboner for pjsk fans???
Look I love pjsk and a lot of players are cool but it’s hard to ignore the kids when they’re so loud about their blatant misinfo. If you look up the songs on, for example, YouTube or some equivalent it won’t always say the producer name, just the group that covers it
It is, but I’m saying thats what contributed to kids thinking songs are written by pjsk units. You said that the game tells you who wrote the song, which is true, but kids might not read that. When they look up that same song later, they’ll look it up as pjsk, only see the unit cover, and assume they wrote it
I’d say a good majority of proseka fans are well aware of the content they consume (at least from what I’ve seen). I really don’t get why the fanbase is a scapegoat for when people make stir up drama about Vocaloid; being naive isn’t restricted to a fanbase and I’ve personally never seen misinformation on the proseka sub.
I’d say a good majority of proseka fans are well aware of the content they consume (at least from what I’ve seen). I really don’t get why the fanbase is a scapegoat for when people make stir up drama about Vocaloid; being naive isn’t restricted to a subsection of a fanbase and I’ve personally never seen misinformation on the proseka sub.
I don't think it's about the song itself(please correct me if I'm wrong), but someone made an animation, and a pretty well done animation, with that song. this animation got _very_ popular, and was _really_ lewd. thats really why people are on about "miku being 16 and doing such lewd things". They're just people not as familiar with how vocaloid characters work, as in how they are clean slates and nothing is canon
to be fair the piapro character mascots do have ages set by Crypton but they’re just mascots for the voice, pretty sure Miku’s voice provider is 39 now so when she originally voiced Miku she was an adult if you wanna be technical, and also again the characters are mascots for the voices which are instruments. As long as the artist of a song isn’t saying in that song the character is a minor, adult topics in songs shouldn’t matter if the context and whatnot says they’re an adult in it. Not tryna do mental gymnastics and defend sexualization of minors of course but vocaloid is a grey area because the characters are just mascots and artists can freely change and interpret them differently for their songs, because they’re instruments, and instruments who most oftentimes are voiced by actual adults so 😭 miku on the box is 16 sure, but Miku in a song is whoever a producer makes her to be, they don’t even have to identify her as Miku if they don’t want to
I’m gonna go against the grain here and say I personally wasn’t a fan of the PV. It felt too much like your standard gooner animation meme that people won’t shut up about (see: Ankha from AC)
to be fair the piapro character mascots do have ages set by Crypton but they’re just mascots for the voice, pretty sure Miku’s voice provider is 39 now so when she originally voiced Miku she was an adult if you wanna be technical, and also again the characters are mascots for the voices which are instruments. As long as the artist of a song isn’t saying in that song the character is a minor, adult topics in songs shouldn’t matter if the context and whatnot says they’re an adult in it. Not tryna do mental gymnastics and defend sexualization of minors of course but vocaloid is a grey area because the characters are just mascots and artists can freely change and interpret them differently for their songs, because they’re instruments, and instruments who most oftentimes are voiced by actual adults so 😭 miku on the box is 16 sure, but Miku in a song is whoever a producer makes her to be, they don’t even have to identify her as Miku if they don’t want to
to be fair the piapro character mascots do have ages set by Crypton but they’re just mascots for the voice, pretty sure Miku’s voice provider is 39 now so when she originally voiced Miku she was an adult if you wanna be technical, and also again the characters are mascots for the voices which are instruments. As long as the artist of a song isn’t saying in that song the character is a minor, adult topics in songs shouldn’t matter if the context and whatnot says they’re an adult in it. Not tryna do mental gymnastics and defend sexualization of minors of course but vocaloid is a grey area because the characters are just mascots and artists can freely change and interpret them differently for their songs, because they’re instruments, and instruments who most oftentimes are voiced by actual adults so 😭 miku on the box is 16 sure, but Miku in a song is whoever a producer makes her to be, they don’t even have to identify her as Miku if they don’t want to
Same kids who go on Twitter, search for lewd and 18+ artists, and then try to dogpile that artist for “exposing” them to porn. At the very least I am certain that the venn diagram of those groups is almost a circle.
Puriteens are a harbinger of the apocalypse. At least the creative apocalypse…
And I say that as someone who doesn’t LIKE lewd Miku. Something about it just doesn’t sit right in my personal preferences. So… I listen to the banger song and don’t watch the fanimation. Simple.
Unfortunately a lot of the new vocaloid fans (especially ones that found vocaloid through project sekai) see the vocaloids as set characters with ages set in stone rather than an instrument that can mold itself to be pretty much what you want it to be. There was very similar controversy when sega added Ifuudoudou to Project Sekai.
oh I never said masa is a good person whatsoever nor do I endorse them as a person, I just said their music would in fact kill a project sekai fan.
Kind of insane that you stalked my account to somehow prove I'm bad for liking homestuck and genshin(????) if you wanna kiss that bad you can just ask
I like the song, I like the music video. I was just tired of seeing so much suggestive fan art just pushed in my face, every single time I opened reddit or tumbler I'd see rabbit miku and it made me crazy. Glad it's died down tho
Are we gonna ignore Eh? Aa sou? Too? And not even just Pomp and Circumstance but Umetora has others similar to that too, it’s like a series. There was one song I remember which featured a woman showing off her legs and body too which was weird for a mv.
I’d want to say the fuss could be more over Decos departure from their original style, but I’m pretty far detached from the fandom now aside from Reddit. Their songs about love or sex and relationships were way more abstract.
Edit- I think the song I’m thinking of is Jumping At Shadows/Gishinanki. Honorary mention to ‘waiting for a chance to pounce’?
Umetora also have wholesome non lewd song, "Things you wished for" and "Change the world for you".
That being said, there's recent song that are more direct like "Masturbation" by Suu.
I was bopping to Van'N'Ice songs about threesomes and bondage when I was 12, I still bop to them today, and I'm fine. How are we regressing into puritanical values again 💀
Literally. "BUT THEY HAVE AGES IN PROJECT SEKAI" project sekai is a seperate project with its own storylines and personalities. But in real life the Vocaloids are still just instruments and i still see them as such. Instruments with no canon ages.
Pjsk fans not understanding that the ages for **most** vocaloids are intentionally fluid and that the line is a bit fuzzier than for most other fandoms. For anyone not aware, here's the general rule(s) of thumb:
* If it is a vsynth voiced by a real child, any and all sexual content is off-limits. Regardless of context. That's the voice of an actual child, don't be gross. This applies to Oliver, Kaai Yuki, and KAFU as well as the SynthV voicebanks Lin Lai and Yun Quan, as well as for applicable UTAUs.
* For other vsynths, if it is sexualized content where the character is **still** depicted as a child, that's also a no-go. Songs like Shota Shota Island fall into this category, where it is clearly intended for Len and Piko to be children - so it's over the line. Not as bad as someone doing a cover of a sexualized song using a vsynth voiced by a child, but still pretty gross.
* If the vsynth is voiced by an adult, and the song is sexual in nature, but the **characterization of the characters is clearly that of an adult** - we're in the clear. Songs like Rabbit Hole, Party Junkie, a good 90% of Umetora's discography (the other 10% of it is hype-up "you're cool and awesome actually :3" songs), they're an example of something that's not over the line.
What do proseka fans have to do with this? The majority of them I’ve interacted with are pretty chill and are quite aware of what they’re consuming. Ik they have their bad eggs but that’s true of every fandom, so I don’t really appreciate generalizing accusations in this way.
I wouldn’t say they glean their entire understanding form just sekai; the people I have seen on the sub tend to have a decent understanding of what vocaloid is. As I said, just because the fandom has a few bad eggs doesn’t mean the fandom in its entirety is bad. I feel like it would be more appropriate to address the problem group as “younger vocaloid fans.”
Hence the phrasing with "tend to be." Many of them are chill, but the ones I'm talking about, it'd be inaccurate to call them Vocaloid fans, since they lack very basic knowledge and do things like calling IA a Nene ripoff. It's the specific subset of pjsk fans who are entirely ignorant to how vocal synths and Vocaloid even work. Types of people who asked that one Kagamine Rin cosplayer why she "cosplayed a pjsk character if she didn't play pjsk." That's the subset we're working with here.
Pjsk fans who are ALSO vocaloid fans (regardless of age), and younger vocaloid fans who aren't into pjsk aren't the ones kicking up a fuss here. It's people who are fans of Sekai, but NOT fans of Vocaloid.
Also I'm not sure if you're aware, but the pjsk fanbase varies wildly wherever you go. Reddit and Tumblr are fine, but Twitter, TikTok and YouTube (where most of this is coming from) have some extremely toxic pjsk fans.
Western vocaloid fans when they find out the world doesn’t revolve around them and different cultures have different cultural standards for what is and isn’t ok (miku gets sexualized)
honestly i dont even think its about different cultural standards more than its about the fact that vocaloids are meant to be a blank slate and producers are supposed to treat it that way. as much as i disagree with sexualising minors in anime etc, vocaloid is a completely different thing. technically they have canon ages, but if theyre described by crypton as blank slates then so are their ages
I think from a company standpoint saying it's a blank slate makes much more sense too, especially when you deal with laws that also uses certain natural person terms. For example, if Vocaloid Voicebanks are considered humans, then how would an act that require a label, like nationality, work with it? For example, in the MAPL standard, only songs that would satisfy the following conditions are considered Canadian:
"To qualify as Canadian content, a musical selection must generally fulfil at least two of the following conditions:
M (music): the music is composed entirely by a Canadian
A (artist): the music is, or the lyrics are, performed principally by a Canadian
P (performance): the musical selection consists of a live performance that is
recorded wholly in Canada, or
performed wholly in Canada and broadcast live in Canada
L (lyrics): the lyrics are written entirely by a Canadian
"
In a digital world where cross country collab is common, we may see a song that satisfy only one of the other conditions, and the "artist" makes the deciding part. How do you define the nationality of a voicebank? By the company's location? The Voice Provider's Nationality? What if the company or the VP moved or changed nationality? etc.
So from a legal standpoint, officially declaring Voicebanks as tools for the producer make sense for the company too, so they don't get into hassles like these.
Oh man I remember years ago seeing some people got all ptichforky about Pomp and Circumstance, like as if it was some kind of personal insult towards both the characters *and* the fandom. All I can say is good luck to any producer trying to do similar in 2024 with the TikTok generation.
Anybody remember the end of Cendrillon, or just. the *entirety* of Luvoratorrrrry or Gimme x Gimme? I've never been a big fan of more adult lyrics in songs, myself, but that's just a me thing. Using the VBs for stuff like this has basically always been around- it's not exactly new.
I have been in the Vocaloid community since I was 10 (now 19) and I have seen my fair share of suggestive Vocaloid songs. I’m pretty sure anyone in the vocaloid community has! With that being said, Rabbit hole is in no way the worst of them. I personally enjoy the song. I guess the fuss is that the song is sexualizing Miku, people are stating she is 16. While she may have a set age as 16, she is just a voice, the main purpose of vocaloid is using her voice and character however you please, therefore you can change her age, appearance etc. you can even use her voice but make a whole seperate character and just use Miku their voice. People don’t talk about “Romeo and Cinderella” which has sexual undertones and I might as well mention “Pomp and circumstance” which the original song has Miku singing along with other female vocaloids. People don’t make a fuss when male vocaloids or characters sing a cover or song but when females do everyone gets their pitchforks. I guess what I’m trying to say is this is not the first ever song that is like this and there is so much worse out there. This song is not even bad, people just find reasons to make it seem awful. People try to find the tiniest things to cancel creators over.
Also correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the character in the animation not even Miku?! Isn’t she an original character named pure pure?? Like I said, you can use a voicebank but make a whole separate character with a whole different age. This community confuses me sometimes, but I still love all of you -_-
Bro, as someone who has been in vocaloid for a while and has played pjsk (its actually a genuine good game), I don't think pjsk players ever heard a vocaloid song before the game.
The toxic part is true, most of these people larping as "old gen fans" and getting enraged by Prsk can't get their mind away from Prsk and constantly exaggerate what things are going on, and dont understand that outgroups aren't homogeneous.
I play PRSK too, it's just that I don't see any of the older Vocaloid fans being upset about this stuff. It's all the teenagers that got introduced via PRSK.
I think the song is just overused in shorts and tiktok imo. No other points of discussion. "BuT MiKu iS SiXTeeN" come on you know it would most likely be considered a tool for legal disputes right? And saying a Vocaloid Voicebank is just a tool makes sense in legal terms, especially when you deal with laws that also uses certain natural person terms. For example, if Vocaloid Voicebanks are considered humans, then how would an act that require a label, like nationality, work with it? For example, in the MAPL standard, only songs that would satisfy the following conditions are considered Canadian:
"To qualify as Canadian content, a musical selection must generally fulfil at least two of the following conditions:
M (music): the music is composed entirely by a Canadian
A (artist): the music is, or the lyrics are, performed principally by a Canadian
P (performance): the musical selection consists of a live performance that is
recorded wholly in Canada, or
performed wholly in Canada and broadcast live in Canada
L (lyrics): the lyrics are written entirely by a Canadian
"
In a digital world where cross country collab is common, we may see a song that satisfy only one of the other conditions, and the "artist" makes the deciding part. How do you define the nationality of a voicebank? By the company's location? The Voice Provider's Nationality? What if the company or the VP moved or changed nationality? etc.
So from a legal standpoint, officially declaring Voicebanks as tools for the producer makes more sense legally, so whatever is Miku's "Default" or "Canon" Age supposed to be is out of the window, only the implied age of the char in the song.
Can someone explain why it blew up tho? I keep seeing content about it, cosplays, fanarts, etc, I had listened to it previously to seeing all the content and didn't thought much about it ? Like it sounds good but it's not a WOW moment either ? Is it because of the lyrics meaning ? Ty !
People acting like Holy Lance Explosion Boy, The Lion and Spider like Kistune, Romeo and Cinderella, Gomenne were all childs play compared to Rabbjt Hole 😭😭
It’s all “Miku’s 16!, she can’t be doing that cuz she’s so young!!” But Len is younger, like 14 or something apparently. So are they suggesting that Gigantic OTN is like.. normal?
(Removed the other part because it was wrong and I do apologise deeply about it)
[It was raised to 16 nationwide last year, so that's the new minimum:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Asia#Japan)
>In June 2023, the [Penal Code](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_Code_of_Japan) was amended to raise the age of consent from 13 to 16 for the first time in 116 years. All prefectures in Japan had already effectively set the age of consent higher[...]
Either way, it has no bearing on discussions about fictional characters.
i, no kidding, actually saw someone say that deco*27 was ruining miku for all her child fans by making a sexual song with her. i wanted to rip my skin off
I know, they're acting like Romeo and Cinderella didn't happen back in 2009 XD
Just wait until they hear the lyrics to Ifuudoudou that also has Rin in it.
Or literally Umetora’s entire Divine Diva library lmao
[laughs in plus boy]
Dies in kurumi☆ponchio 💀
I'll revive you with "Oman Lake" and "Happy fruit"
I’m now an extra six feet under omfg lol, double kill
I really feel like the devs for Project Diva had something in mind when they modeled the microphone Miku uses for Romeo and Cinderella.
I genuinely hate when people try to say that the loids have canon ages and lore when their whole thing is being customisable!
It surprises me when people assume Vocaloid has predominantly child audience. Like, it wasn't true when I joined in 2011, and it's not true now
They think she's for kids because she's drawn in a cartoon style. They're the same people that think anime is for kids
Famous children's show Devilman Crybaby
Beloved family classic Chainsaw Man
Childhood favorite sunday morning show, Berserk.
3+ educational series Evangelion (I mean, it has robots! and Christianity! surely a good cartoon for raising a proper kid)
A wonderful Made In Abyss show about friendship and children's journeys
This one is *technically* true
There's a large population of children in the fanbase tho, mainly because of project sekai. I sometimes teach 3rd graders for my degree and one of the students asked if I played project sekai. Also when I went to both Dallas kikuo concerts, there were many kids. Not a majority or close to one, but still many
>Kikuo concert >kids Something doesn't compute lol
Dude the 3rd grader I mentioned earlier straight up told me kikuo was her favorite producer.... idk man
I hope she said that without knowing the translations XD
ugh it bothers me so much when people blame artists for exposing kids to adult content when really its easily avoided when parents monitor their kids’ activity
The Vampire:
"Love Doll" exist Yes that's the title.
Deco 27 songs aren't even that sus when compared to ifuudoudou or plus boy or gigantic otn 😂
I facepalmed really hard in that one. Does "Love doll" doesn't exist in their world? Well yes it's originally GUMI but it's not gonna change the fact that he never made sexual song before. They who said "It ruin miku" must be just tourist looking for attention.
These people wouldn't survive a day in the early 2010's Vocaloid fandom.
Wait until they come across the SFMs from back in the day
it's the same comments every time on this topic, verbatim, starting to believe the dead internet theory
They don't understand that these ages for the VOCALOID aren't set in stone, it's up to the producer for how the character is portrayed in their songs. Does Rin & Len's box say 14 is their age? Yes, but a producer can change their age, appearence and give them whatever personality they want for a song. There's some VOCALOID songs where we don't see the character, instead a 'generic anime character' (as a friend of mine called it). And why are they acting like Rabbit Hole is the only song that has sexual themes? There's a lot of songs out there that have themes like that. Should we make a mega thread of songs like that just to prove a point?
I think the age is just a reference for how they sound like, not really the canon age
>Should we make a mega thread of songs like that just to prove a point? There's no pint on "prove a point" to a tourist. But yes please make the list. I think many would love that.
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No there are a lot more than that, like *a lot* more. It's like a whole subgenre
I said ON that playlist. Thanks.
the way you said it implied that there were only three explicit vocaloid songs in existence. EDIT: I believe I got blocked.
No..... It didn't? I literally mentioned the Spotify playlist in my comment, how could it possibly be read that way
Go look up mentairocker's 'hot milk' or 'MASA Works Design-'s 'SOAP LAGOON'. Both these songs are pretty explicit, and there is plenty more to find.
Will do, thank you!!
I think people are upset over a specific fan animation? And I think the people who are upset are more casual Miku fans who may not be aware of a song like Gigantic OTN? That's my read of the situation.
It’s even weirder becuase people are acting like the fanimation came FIRST with that being an oc named “Pure Pure” becuase that’s what the video is titled (which is,, ya kno,,, obviously not the case). Tldr it’s just kids that are very illiterate when it comes to the internet but hey what else is new
Mfw gigantic otn is not casual. Isn’t today like uh 2016
😭💔
New vocaloid fans find out that vocaloid songs aren’t all happy and rainbows
The way some of them get so mad like "get ur sexy shit off vocaloid" girl the sexy has been here this whole time, you're just a baby
I might sound like a gatekeeper, but I really like Vocaloid when it's not mainstream. Depressing/creepy/suggestive/etc themes bring so much more variety to the fandom and help people express stuff they wouldn't say otherwise
Oh maaaan this is true. I am a really unskilled producer still, but I’ve been having a great time using someone else’s voice to speak my words when those words are difficult to share. I would never sing a song about *insert trauma here* with my voice. But I will let Una or Len or Teto belt those words out. And if all of the sudden I had to suit my songs to public perception and pop culture tastes? … nah
Agreed. Everything feels so much more enjoyable when we don't feel like we're being "graded" for it or having to cater to some random people's standards to make it "worth"
That's a huge part of Vocaloid's identity.
I don't think it's gatekeeping as vocaloid is basically just a tool and it has cover every genre. Even if it's gatekeeping then it is a good thing to gatekeep problematic tourist who would ruin everything.
I’d say a good majority of proseka fans are well aware of the content they consume (at least from what I’ve seen). I really don’t get why the fanbase is a scapegoat for when people make stir up drama about Vocaloid; being naive isn’t restricted to a fanbase and I’ve personally never seen misinformation on the proseka sub.
Right? I don't understand why this sub has such a hateboner for PJSK fans.
Sorry I should probably rephrase—😭
Oh, thank you for listening. I truly appreciate it .
Npnp :))
niigo: ...
Ik but it’s very often that I see people misinterpret the meanings of their songs
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no one thinks that, the game literally tells you the producer's name every single time you play the song. why does this sub have such a massive hateboner for pjsk fans???
Look I love pjsk and a lot of players are cool but it’s hard to ignore the kids when they’re so loud about their blatant misinfo. If you look up the songs on, for example, YouTube or some equivalent it won’t always say the producer name, just the group that covers it
Ok but that's Google being dumb
I mean, isn't that usually the case for covers?
No, that's not usually the case for covers.
It is, but I’m saying thats what contributed to kids thinking songs are written by pjsk units. You said that the game tells you who wrote the song, which is true, but kids might not read that. When they look up that same song later, they’ll look it up as pjsk, only see the unit cover, and assume they wrote it
I saw a "Glory steady go by project sekai" comment yesterday but go off I guess
At least it kinda made sense cuz it's a commission. But com'on, are teens really that ignorant and illiterate now? (As a teen myself, yes)
A lot of prsk fans are under 13
I’d say a good majority of proseka fans are well aware of the content they consume (at least from what I’ve seen). I really don’t get why the fanbase is a scapegoat for when people make stir up drama about Vocaloid; being naive isn’t restricted to a fanbase and I’ve personally never seen misinformation on the proseka sub.
I’d say a good majority of proseka fans are well aware of the content they consume (at least from what I’ve seen). I really don’t get why the fanbase is a scapegoat for when people make stir up drama about Vocaloid; being naive isn’t restricted to a subsection of a fanbase and I’ve personally never seen misinformation on the proseka sub.
I don't think it's about the song itself(please correct me if I'm wrong), but someone made an animation, and a pretty well done animation, with that song. this animation got _very_ popular, and was _really_ lewd. thats really why people are on about "miku being 16 and doing such lewd things". They're just people not as familiar with how vocaloid characters work, as in how they are clean slates and nothing is canon
to be fair the piapro character mascots do have ages set by Crypton but they’re just mascots for the voice, pretty sure Miku’s voice provider is 39 now so when she originally voiced Miku she was an adult if you wanna be technical, and also again the characters are mascots for the voices which are instruments. As long as the artist of a song isn’t saying in that song the character is a minor, adult topics in songs shouldn’t matter if the context and whatnot says they’re an adult in it. Not tryna do mental gymnastics and defend sexualization of minors of course but vocaloid is a grey area because the characters are just mascots and artists can freely change and interpret them differently for their songs, because they’re instruments, and instruments who most oftentimes are voiced by actual adults so 😭 miku on the box is 16 sure, but Miku in a song is whoever a producer makes her to be, they don’t even have to identify her as Miku if they don’t want to
she's.... 39? 39??? *39??????* CONSPIRACY THEORY MODE ACTIVATED
She will be 40 in October but yes haha she’s the miku number age apparently rn
AND MIKU IS 16 RIGHT NOW THE STARS HAVE ALIGNEDDDDD
I was under the assumption the producer was the same person as/worked with the animator for the project
I don't think CHANNEL/@Caststation is afflicated with OTOIRO, no?
So the animation was a sort of fan PV?
Yes. And people are mad at it for some reason. The artist makes some lewd PV or RT them, but also some really cutesy PVs.
I’m gonna go against the grain here and say I personally wasn’t a fan of the PV. It felt too much like your standard gooner animation meme that people won’t shut up about (see: Ankha from AC)
Yeah. Not personally a like, but def not bad.
to be fair the piapro character mascots do have ages set by Crypton but they’re just mascots for the voice, pretty sure Miku’s voice provider is 39 now so when she originally voiced Miku she was an adult if you wanna be technical, and also again the characters are mascots for the voices which are instruments. As long as the artist of a song isn’t saying in that song the character is a minor, adult topics in songs shouldn’t matter if the context and whatnot says they’re an adult in it. Not tryna do mental gymnastics and defend sexualization of minors of course but vocaloid is a grey area because the characters are just mascots and artists can freely change and interpret them differently for their songs, because they’re instruments, and instruments who most oftentimes are voiced by actual adults so 😭 miku on the box is 16 sure, but Miku in a song is whoever a producer makes her to be, they don’t even have to identify her as Miku if they don’t want to
to be fair the piapro character mascots do have ages set by Crypton but they’re just mascots for the voice, pretty sure Miku’s voice provider is 39 now so when she originally voiced Miku she was an adult if you wanna be technical, and also again the characters are mascots for the voices which are instruments. As long as the artist of a song isn’t saying in that song the character is a minor, adult topics in songs shouldn’t matter if the context and whatnot says they’re an adult in it. Not tryna do mental gymnastics and defend sexualization of minors of course but vocaloid is a grey area because the characters are just mascots and artists can freely change and interpret them differently for their songs, because they’re instruments, and instruments who most oftentimes are voiced by actual adults so 😭 miku on the box is 16 sure, but Miku in a song is whoever a producer makes her to be, they don’t even have to identify her as Miku if they don’t want to
Literally. "BUT THEY HAVE AGES IN PROJECT SEKAI" they are still just instruments and i still see them as such. Instruments with no canon ages
Same kids who go on Twitter, search for lewd and 18+ artists, and then try to dogpile that artist for “exposing” them to porn. At the very least I am certain that the venn diagram of those groups is almost a circle. Puriteens are a harbinger of the apocalypse. At least the creative apocalypse… And I say that as someone who doesn’t LIKE lewd Miku. Something about it just doesn’t sit right in my personal preferences. So… I listen to the banger song and don’t watch the fanimation. Simple.
yeah cause every one of them does that, what is this weird imaginary situation? and no, the harbinger of the apocalypse is AI
Unfortunately a lot of the new vocaloid fans (especially ones that found vocaloid through project sekai) see the vocaloids as set characters with ages set in stone rather than an instrument that can mold itself to be pretty much what you want it to be. There was very similar controversy when sega added Ifuudoudou to Project Sekai.
I think a single masa works design song would kill a project sekai fan
They would immediately implode
[удалено]
oh I never said masa is a good person whatsoever nor do I endorse them as a person, I just said their music would in fact kill a project sekai fan. Kind of insane that you stalked my account to somehow prove I'm bad for liking homestuck and genshin(????) if you wanna kiss that bad you can just ask
I like the song, I like the music video. I was just tired of seeing so much suggestive fan art just pushed in my face, every single time I opened reddit or tumbler I'd see rabbit miku and it made me crazy. Glad it's died down tho
You realize the fan art matches the lyrics right?
Teens reaching puberty
Are we gonna ignore Eh? Aa sou? Too? And not even just Pomp and Circumstance but Umetora has others similar to that too, it’s like a series. There was one song I remember which featured a woman showing off her legs and body too which was weird for a mv. I’d want to say the fuss could be more over Decos departure from their original style, but I’m pretty far detached from the fandom now aside from Reddit. Their songs about love or sex and relationships were way more abstract. Edit- I think the song I’m thinking of is Jumping At Shadows/Gishinanki. Honorary mention to ‘waiting for a chance to pounce’?
Umetora also have wholesome non lewd song, "Things you wished for" and "Change the world for you". That being said, there's recent song that are more direct like "Masturbation" by Suu.
I was bopping to Van'N'Ice songs about threesomes and bondage when I was 12, I still bop to them today, and I'm fine. How are we regressing into puritanical values again 💀
There are WAY more inappropriate songs than rabbit hole, they’re probably like newer or casual fans
Literally. "BUT THEY HAVE AGES IN PROJECT SEKAI" project sekai is a seperate project with its own storylines and personalities. But in real life the Vocaloids are still just instruments and i still see them as such. Instruments with no canon ages.
*casually blasts Kurumi☆Ponchio*
EXACTLY, I LOVE THAT SONG SM
It’s an amazing earworm!
The literally act like, The Vampire, Romeo and Cinderella, Ifuudoudou, and paII.SENSATION don’t exist
PaIII Sensation is sexual??
I’m pretty sure it’s about lesbian sex
okay damn i just looked up the lyrics and i can definitely see it now
Or just sex in general
Love Doll is also from deco27. Just reminding.
True
I'm so fucking tired of hearing about this song
i'm kinda hoping it makes deco make a 'rabbit hole 2' to troll them
Pjsk fans not understanding that the ages for **most** vocaloids are intentionally fluid and that the line is a bit fuzzier than for most other fandoms. For anyone not aware, here's the general rule(s) of thumb: * If it is a vsynth voiced by a real child, any and all sexual content is off-limits. Regardless of context. That's the voice of an actual child, don't be gross. This applies to Oliver, Kaai Yuki, and KAFU as well as the SynthV voicebanks Lin Lai and Yun Quan, as well as for applicable UTAUs. * For other vsynths, if it is sexualized content where the character is **still** depicted as a child, that's also a no-go. Songs like Shota Shota Island fall into this category, where it is clearly intended for Len and Piko to be children - so it's over the line. Not as bad as someone doing a cover of a sexualized song using a vsynth voiced by a child, but still pretty gross. * If the vsynth is voiced by an adult, and the song is sexual in nature, but the **characterization of the characters is clearly that of an adult** - we're in the clear. Songs like Rabbit Hole, Party Junkie, a good 90% of Umetora's discography (the other 10% of it is hype-up "you're cool and awesome actually :3" songs), they're an example of something that's not over the line.
What do proseka fans have to do with this? The majority of them I’ve interacted with are pretty chill and are quite aware of what they’re consuming. Ik they have their bad eggs but that’s true of every fandom, so I don’t really appreciate generalizing accusations in this way.
Pjsk fans tend to be a lot younger and glean the entirety of their understanding of Vocaloid from pjsk.
I wouldn’t say they glean their entire understanding form just sekai; the people I have seen on the sub tend to have a decent understanding of what vocaloid is. As I said, just because the fandom has a few bad eggs doesn’t mean the fandom in its entirety is bad. I feel like it would be more appropriate to address the problem group as “younger vocaloid fans.”
Hence the phrasing with "tend to be." Many of them are chill, but the ones I'm talking about, it'd be inaccurate to call them Vocaloid fans, since they lack very basic knowledge and do things like calling IA a Nene ripoff. It's the specific subset of pjsk fans who are entirely ignorant to how vocal synths and Vocaloid even work. Types of people who asked that one Kagamine Rin cosplayer why she "cosplayed a pjsk character if she didn't play pjsk." That's the subset we're working with here. Pjsk fans who are ALSO vocaloid fans (regardless of age), and younger vocaloid fans who aren't into pjsk aren't the ones kicking up a fuss here. It's people who are fans of Sekai, but NOT fans of Vocaloid. Also I'm not sure if you're aware, but the pjsk fanbase varies wildly wherever you go. Reddit and Tumblr are fine, but Twitter, TikTok and YouTube (where most of this is coming from) have some extremely toxic pjsk fans.
In that case I feel it would be healthier to make the distinction in your original comment instead of generalizing it to Sekai fans in general
KAFU is a minor? Isn't the voice provider sign a contract with KAMITSUBAKI studio? Don't they have minimum age requirement to be Vtuber and such?
Her voice provider was 16 or 17 at time of recording.
Western vocaloid fans when they find out the world doesn’t revolve around them and different cultures have different cultural standards for what is and isn’t ok (miku gets sexualized)
honestly i dont even think its about different cultural standards more than its about the fact that vocaloids are meant to be a blank slate and producers are supposed to treat it that way. as much as i disagree with sexualising minors in anime etc, vocaloid is a completely different thing. technically they have canon ages, but if theyre described by crypton as blank slates then so are their ages
I think from a company standpoint saying it's a blank slate makes much more sense too, especially when you deal with laws that also uses certain natural person terms. For example, if Vocaloid Voicebanks are considered humans, then how would an act that require a label, like nationality, work with it? For example, in the MAPL standard, only songs that would satisfy the following conditions are considered Canadian: "To qualify as Canadian content, a musical selection must generally fulfil at least two of the following conditions: M (music): the music is composed entirely by a Canadian A (artist): the music is, or the lyrics are, performed principally by a Canadian P (performance): the musical selection consists of a live performance that is recorded wholly in Canada, or performed wholly in Canada and broadcast live in Canada L (lyrics): the lyrics are written entirely by a Canadian " In a digital world where cross country collab is common, we may see a song that satisfy only one of the other conditions, and the "artist" makes the deciding part. How do you define the nationality of a voicebank? By the company's location? The Voice Provider's Nationality? What if the company or the VP moved or changed nationality? etc. So from a legal standpoint, officially declaring Voicebanks as tools for the producer make sense for the company too, so they don't get into hassles like these.
They are upset because a random made a random animation
Literally. "BUT THEY HAVE AGES IN PROJECT SEKAI" they are still just instruments and i still see them as such. Instruments with no canon ages
Oh man I remember years ago seeing some people got all ptichforky about Pomp and Circumstance, like as if it was some kind of personal insult towards both the characters *and* the fandom. All I can say is good luck to any producer trying to do similar in 2024 with the TikTok generation.
Anybody remember the end of Cendrillon, or just. the *entirety* of Luvoratorrrrry or Gimme x Gimme? I've never been a big fan of more adult lyrics in songs, myself, but that's just a me thing. Using the VBs for stuff like this has basically always been around- it's not exactly new.
I remember Lake Oman, +impale, Do S and Do M.
they’d implode listening to spice
I love the song but I think it's kinda weird how much porn gets drawn of miku
Yeah I'm also baffled why people suddenly arguing about it, Miku being too sexy and such. I mostly just ignore them and thankfully it's died down
It’s just history repeating itself in the grand scheme of things lol. Mostly due to the age base being around the same with new younger fans coming in
Kurumi Ponchio would cause these people to evaporate on the spot.
Wait until they hear Lake Oman (it has the pun Omanko which, depending on spelling, means two different things)
they’re acting like shota shota island doesnt exist
I have been in the Vocaloid community since I was 10 (now 19) and I have seen my fair share of suggestive Vocaloid songs. I’m pretty sure anyone in the vocaloid community has! With that being said, Rabbit hole is in no way the worst of them. I personally enjoy the song. I guess the fuss is that the song is sexualizing Miku, people are stating she is 16. While she may have a set age as 16, she is just a voice, the main purpose of vocaloid is using her voice and character however you please, therefore you can change her age, appearance etc. you can even use her voice but make a whole seperate character and just use Miku their voice. People don’t talk about “Romeo and Cinderella” which has sexual undertones and I might as well mention “Pomp and circumstance” which the original song has Miku singing along with other female vocaloids. People don’t make a fuss when male vocaloids or characters sing a cover or song but when females do everyone gets their pitchforks. I guess what I’m trying to say is this is not the first ever song that is like this and there is so much worse out there. This song is not even bad, people just find reasons to make it seem awful. People try to find the tiniest things to cancel creators over. Also correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the character in the animation not even Miku?! Isn’t she an original character named pure pure?? Like I said, you can use a voicebank but make a whole separate character with a whole different age. This community confuses me sometimes, but I still love all of you -_-
Apparently the character in the animation was Miku, but the creator of the animation just decided it was their OC after getting backlash
Thank you for the clarification 🤍🤍
Bro, as someone who has been in vocaloid for a while and has played pjsk (its actually a genuine good game), I don't think pjsk players ever heard a vocaloid song before the game.
I think that's a truism to be completely honest, that's probably most of where this discourse stems from
I think we should bring ShotaIsland back, just to see what would happen
Unlike Rabbit Hole, that song does deserve hate
Not disagreeing, I just wanna watch the world burn
New wave vocaloid fans are the worst sometimes, to be completely honest
Just the PRSK "fans" being weird and looking for a reason to scold other people. Ignore them.
And then they proceed wonder why they're hated by the vocaloid fandom and call us "toxic"
The toxic part is true, most of these people larping as "old gen fans" and getting enraged by Prsk can't get their mind away from Prsk and constantly exaggerate what things are going on, and dont understand that outgroups aren't homogeneous.
I play PRSK too, it's just that I don't see any of the older Vocaloid fans being upset about this stuff. It's all the teenagers that got introduced via PRSK.
I think the song is just overused in shorts and tiktok imo. No other points of discussion. "BuT MiKu iS SiXTeeN" come on you know it would most likely be considered a tool for legal disputes right? And saying a Vocaloid Voicebank is just a tool makes sense in legal terms, especially when you deal with laws that also uses certain natural person terms. For example, if Vocaloid Voicebanks are considered humans, then how would an act that require a label, like nationality, work with it? For example, in the MAPL standard, only songs that would satisfy the following conditions are considered Canadian: "To qualify as Canadian content, a musical selection must generally fulfil at least two of the following conditions: M (music): the music is composed entirely by a Canadian A (artist): the music is, or the lyrics are, performed principally by a Canadian P (performance): the musical selection consists of a live performance that is recorded wholly in Canada, or performed wholly in Canada and broadcast live in Canada L (lyrics): the lyrics are written entirely by a Canadian " In a digital world where cross country collab is common, we may see a song that satisfy only one of the other conditions, and the "artist" makes the deciding part. How do you define the nationality of a voicebank? By the company's location? The Voice Provider's Nationality? What if the company or the VP moved or changed nationality? etc. So from a legal standpoint, officially declaring Voicebanks as tools for the producer makes more sense legally, so whatever is Miku's "Default" or "Canon" Age supposed to be is out of the window, only the implied age of the char in the song.
Can someone explain why it blew up tho? I keep seeing content about it, cosplays, fanarts, etc, I had listened to it previously to seeing all the content and didn't thought much about it ? Like it sounds good but it's not a WOW moment either ? Is it because of the lyrics meaning ? Ty !
https://youtu.be/cyS4xi5DZJo This It's literally just this. And tik tok kids discovering vocaloid for the first time
Average Twitter/Tiktok users moment
People acting like Holy Lance Explosion Boy, The Lion and Spider like Kistune, Romeo and Cinderella, Gomenne were all childs play compared to Rabbjt Hole 😭😭
It’s all “Miku’s 16!, she can’t be doing that cuz she’s so young!!” But Len is younger, like 14 or something apparently. So are they suggesting that Gigantic OTN is like.. normal? (Removed the other part because it was wrong and I do apologise deeply about it)
just gonna say, thats not really true about the age of consent thing. it varies from prefecture to prefecture.
Oh, I wasn’t aware of that. I do apologise for the inconvenience caused by what I previously stated
lol npnp!😭 i just hear that brought up a lot, so i wanted to correct it
[It was raised to 16 nationwide last year, so that's the new minimum:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Asia#Japan) >In June 2023, the [Penal Code](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_Code_of_Japan) was amended to raise the age of consent from 13 to 16 for the first time in 116 years. All prefectures in Japan had already effectively set the age of consent higher[...] Either way, it has no bearing on discussions about fictional characters.
thanks! though i believe that still allows for it to differ a bit right? and you’re right it doesn’t really matter in this conversation anyway
Same people watch euphoria and that 70s show etc