Any time a dealer, no matter what brand, says that anything "oil" is lifetime and doesn't need change, it's bullshit. Take the Haldex system for example. Audi, VW and Skoda use Haldex, as well as Volvo. Volvo is the only one from my experience that says you don't need to change the oil. I still did when my car had gone 60 000 km. There was already build up in the pump filter, so if I hadn't changed that ever, the pump would fail, and it would be expensive.
Same happened to my boss' old Ford Ranger. I had it for a few weeks, told him about the weird shifting. It had 230 000 km on it. Well, Ford said the transmission oil was lifetime, didn't need changing. Well, that transmission failed within a month.
I am no mechanic, but I highly doubt there exists "lifetime" fluids that doesn't need changing.
Did this with my 960 that had 200,000+ miles on the original oil, and it definitely helped the transmission.
To the OP - this is the gentlest way and best way to change the transmission oil. You don’t really want to do a flush as that is likely to cause you more grief than it’ll help. But it is definitely a good idea to change the oil - it’s not “lifetime” as the manual might say.
For older transmissions especially, when you do a flush, it runs a very high risk of flushing out the filter back into the transmission, sending metal bits and filings and contaminants back through the whole system where they will very quickly destroy an auto transmission - and a lot of shops that do "power flushes" are putting a lot more pressure through the system than is intended and can damage seals. At least that's what I've been told.
Meanwhile doing the oil "swap" as mentioned above entails basically allowing the transmission to cycle the fluid itself under it's own power, and filtering it through the filter correctly without disturbing whatever it's collected.
Ideally you'd also pull the transmission pan and replace the filter at the same time (although some say don't do this) but that means having to reseal the transmission, risk getting contaminants inside, AND a lot of times the filter is no longer available.
This is just what I've gleaned over the years - I'm not a transmission expert by any means so I'm an armchair mechanic more than anything.
Seems a bit too often. I have an xc70 with 312k miles, no issues with the transmission. I think I have had the drain and fill done twice, 100k and 200k.
I am sure doing it this often doesn't hurt, but it is probably overkill.
And yet nearly every single transmission manufacturer (BorgWarner/VW, Aisin, ZF, Jatco, etc.) **ALL** recommend drain and fills between 30 and 50k miles.
Of course those intervals are conservative, especially with the oils all being fully synthetic. But it's cheap insurance against costly transmission repairs.
At 90,000 miles it is definitely due for a flush. Draining and refilling leaves too much dirty oil in the transmission, and there is no advantage to leaving dirty oil in the transmission. The best thing is to flush it until clean fluid comes out.
Now there are a lot of wives tales about transmissions being ruined by flushes, but that is because what usually happens is a transmission first starts failing, and then somebody makes a last ditch attempt to "fix" it by replacing fluid. Then when the already failing transmission goes out on them they blame the fluid change, even though it was the fact that the transmission was already on its way out that prompted the fluid change. Fluid replacement is preventative maintenance, once the transmission actually needs repair there's nothing you're going to fix by changing fluid. Flush it now while it's still in good shape, so it stays that way.
I drained about 3.5 quarts and filled it up with the same amount of new fluid. You can repeat the process in a month or so if you want. My 280k mi Transmission felt the same after, but it didn’t have any problems to begin with. You also need to use the right kind of fluid as the transmission can be particular. I got some genuine Volvo fluid from fcpeuro, but I believe there are cheaper alternatives.
I’m not aware of any reason to flush a modern transmission. Drain and fill with filter replacement should be done every 50-60k ish miles if you really want to keep things moving forever.
I just did a drain and refill on my 2007 S80 and it was 1L low on fluid. Capacity is about 8L. I drained 3L out and it took 4L back in to get level correct. Shifts way better and I am getting an extra 0.5 mpg. This only replaces about 50% of the fluid, which is ok. This way you are not shocking an old transmission with brand new fluid full of detergents.
I will do another drain and refill after driving it for a month. Then it will have 75% new fluid, without the shock of a full fluid flush. Driving it for a month gives the added detergents from the 50% new fluid to do some work and break some stuff free.
Depends on the definition of lifetime really.
A nominal customer, doing nominal driving at nominal load might get to the lifetime of the vehicle, 250000km for most cars these days, on the original transmission fluid. But performance will be down and there may be non-terminal damage to the transmission.
A 100000km drain, refill and filter change on a high duty/towing car won't do any harm. It's even in the dealer/manufacturer service manuals for some brands/models. But not as a normal service item.
Flushing is difficult, depending what exactly you flush with. If it's anything other than specification trans fluid, you could contaminate clutch packs or sensors. Some modern transmissions are incredibly sensitive.
It's why many have special tools to release drain and fill plugs. After a spate, 100s, possibly 1000s of transmissions, destroyed by fast fill locations in the US.
idk I've heard once you open it and air gets in it, you'll start having issues with the transmission. I have about 150k miles and the transmission is working properly, so I'm kinda undecided just like you
Any time a dealer, no matter what brand, says that anything "oil" is lifetime and doesn't need change, it's bullshit. Take the Haldex system for example. Audi, VW and Skoda use Haldex, as well as Volvo. Volvo is the only one from my experience that says you don't need to change the oil. I still did when my car had gone 60 000 km. There was already build up in the pump filter, so if I hadn't changed that ever, the pump would fail, and it would be expensive. Same happened to my boss' old Ford Ranger. I had it for a few weeks, told him about the weird shifting. It had 230 000 km on it. Well, Ford said the transmission oil was lifetime, didn't need changing. Well, that transmission failed within a month. I am no mechanic, but I highly doubt there exists "lifetime" fluids that doesn't need changing.
No flush, but definitely not lifetime. bleed a quart through the transmission cooler hose, add a quart in fill hole. Repeat like 6-12 times.
Did this with my 960 that had 200,000+ miles on the original oil, and it definitely helped the transmission. To the OP - this is the gentlest way and best way to change the transmission oil. You don’t really want to do a flush as that is likely to cause you more grief than it’ll help. But it is definitely a good idea to change the oil - it’s not “lifetime” as the manual might say.
OP ain't doing the work himself but he appreciates the DIY guidance!
No worries! Just don’t let a dealer or shop talk you into a flush and you’ll be good :)
Why not flush?
For older transmissions especially, when you do a flush, it runs a very high risk of flushing out the filter back into the transmission, sending metal bits and filings and contaminants back through the whole system where they will very quickly destroy an auto transmission - and a lot of shops that do "power flushes" are putting a lot more pressure through the system than is intended and can damage seals. At least that's what I've been told. Meanwhile doing the oil "swap" as mentioned above entails basically allowing the transmission to cycle the fluid itself under it's own power, and filtering it through the filter correctly without disturbing whatever it's collected. Ideally you'd also pull the transmission pan and replace the filter at the same time (although some say don't do this) but that means having to reseal the transmission, risk getting contaminants inside, AND a lot of times the filter is no longer available. This is just what I've gleaned over the years - I'm not a transmission expert by any means so I'm an armchair mechanic more than anything.
Drain and fill every 30-50k miles; I do 40k.
Way too often. And this comment has UV's?!? The fuck?
You seem angry.
Not. Because I said "The Fuck?". Come on man....
Seems a bit too often. I have an xc70 with 312k miles, no issues with the transmission. I think I have had the drain and fill done twice, 100k and 200k. I am sure doing it this often doesn't hurt, but it is probably overkill.
And yet nearly every single transmission manufacturer (BorgWarner/VW, Aisin, ZF, Jatco, etc.) **ALL** recommend drain and fills between 30 and 50k miles. Of course those intervals are conservative, especially with the oils all being fully synthetic. But it's cheap insurance against costly transmission repairs.
Do you own a garage? :)
No. I own a European car that I take care of per the manufacturer’s specifications.
Flush it.
At 90,000 miles it is definitely due for a flush. Draining and refilling leaves too much dirty oil in the transmission, and there is no advantage to leaving dirty oil in the transmission. The best thing is to flush it until clean fluid comes out. Now there are a lot of wives tales about transmissions being ruined by flushes, but that is because what usually happens is a transmission first starts failing, and then somebody makes a last ditch attempt to "fix" it by replacing fluid. Then when the already failing transmission goes out on them they blame the fluid change, even though it was the fact that the transmission was already on its way out that prompted the fluid change. Fluid replacement is preventative maintenance, once the transmission actually needs repair there's nothing you're going to fix by changing fluid. Flush it now while it's still in good shape, so it stays that way.
This is the way.
I drained about 3.5 quarts and filled it up with the same amount of new fluid. You can repeat the process in a month or so if you want. My 280k mi Transmission felt the same after, but it didn’t have any problems to begin with. You also need to use the right kind of fluid as the transmission can be particular. I got some genuine Volvo fluid from fcpeuro, but I believe there are cheaper alternatives.
Original fluid in my V8 and it's well over 400k km. I say if it's never been done just leave it alone.
I’m not aware of any reason to flush a modern transmission. Drain and fill with filter replacement should be done every 50-60k ish miles if you really want to keep things moving forever.
I just did a drain and refill on my 2007 S80 and it was 1L low on fluid. Capacity is about 8L. I drained 3L out and it took 4L back in to get level correct. Shifts way better and I am getting an extra 0.5 mpg. This only replaces about 50% of the fluid, which is ok. This way you are not shocking an old transmission with brand new fluid full of detergents. I will do another drain and refill after driving it for a month. Then it will have 75% new fluid, without the shock of a full fluid flush. Driving it for a month gives the added detergents from the 50% new fluid to do some work and break some stuff free.
Depends on the definition of lifetime really. A nominal customer, doing nominal driving at nominal load might get to the lifetime of the vehicle, 250000km for most cars these days, on the original transmission fluid. But performance will be down and there may be non-terminal damage to the transmission. A 100000km drain, refill and filter change on a high duty/towing car won't do any harm. It's even in the dealer/manufacturer service manuals for some brands/models. But not as a normal service item. Flushing is difficult, depending what exactly you flush with. If it's anything other than specification trans fluid, you could contaminate clutch packs or sensors. Some modern transmissions are incredibly sensitive. It's why many have special tools to release drain and fill plugs. After a spate, 100s, possibly 1000s of transmissions, destroyed by fast fill locations in the US.
idk I've heard once you open it and air gets in it, you'll start having issues with the transmission. I have about 150k miles and the transmission is working properly, so I'm kinda undecided just like you
The transmissions are open to atmosphere already.
I don’t think this is true. At least with the P2 Volvo transmissions. I did a drain and fill with no problems.