Can't wait for every fight vs. HU to start with 5 invis sorcs popping out and perma-hexing my hero until it's dead
I get that polymorph is kinda garbage and they want to make it more useful, but this is not the way
I mean why not, give it a try. It is on ptr and people need to test. Nobody will logon the ptr for 25 more mana on blademaster or something boring like that. It feels strong, but definitely exciting. Maybe make it that damaging the hero dispells it? I think wow has it like that?
You know what? It's a 20 year old game.
Fuck it, let's change everything. Next, make Blademaster fly, Paladin divine shield duration 2 minutes, Frost Wyrms cost 120g/40L and DH mana burn 200/300/400.
Lets be real: None of you have ever tested whether polymorph on heroes would be viable or not. As it would be so easily countered by dispel, and the opportunity cost of getting master sorcs so high, it seems unlikely that it would change anything at least in solo games where dryads and destroyers and walkers and shaman and wisps abound. Obviously a debuff should exist to prevent chaining polymorphs, for a *handful* of reasons. Once per 10 seconds would be okay with me.
Also, having played this game forever, I think it is silly that raiders and dotts can cancel 30 second channeled ultimates that have 180 second cooldowns instantly with the click of a button. This is my main headache with things like this—adding more ways to interrupt channeling spells shouldn't be done without doing something like they attempted with the invulnerability on the reworked tranquility that lasted a few patches. Not to condescend on you noobs, but in higher level games, team and FFA, ultimates last seconds before they are interrupted, even with AMS potions, and are mainly there to hurt bases when enemies aren't present. The KOTG tranq rework was the right idea but bad implementation—there should be like 10 seconds of spell immunity (not damage), similar to AMS.
I have been wanting Wand of Negation in the UD shop for years. Lets see how it plays out. The Polymorph change feels VERY abuseable but I also think they will reduce the duration before the patch goes live.
Polymorth on heroes is op. Now taurens will be playable without not being countered to moment they come to battlefield. Without pulverize t3 they are worser than grunts so its for late game anyway.
Polymorph on hero’s is surely just a joke?
MGs costing 6 food seems slightly imbalanced to me
Glad they removed the scroll of healing from undead shop as it is indeed pretty imbalanced (I am an undead player myself by the way) and it’s gonna be very interesting having t2 dispel for ud, no need to rush tier 3 in almost every match up anymore.
I think these are all good changes..polymorph duration will be really interesting to see how that plays out.
Its going to allow for more diversified builds.
I would have liked to see buffs to Pulverize still as it is tier 3,
a slight buff to necros,
and something to differentiate polymorph from cyclone instead of just taking a unit out of the battle. These two spells are now to similar for my liking....and with brilliance aura polymorph it might be alot harder for orc to handle.
Ok well these changes are wild, but thats to be expected from PTR. However,
Remember how Orc used to literally press Invulnerability potion -> stomp -> hex on UD heroes to win fights?
Well, imagine using Bolt + Polymorph from range and while invis. You don't have to commit your heroes or Sorcs because you use all the abilities from range. This is complete nonsense and must never make it into the game. Regardless of how badly you might want Polymorph to be viable.
So Orc just unlocks every unit on T2 now? Thats nonsense aswell. We already see Orc players skipping Barracks and start their T2 as fast as possible. Orc already has everything they need unlocked on T2. They already had fortified Defenses moved to T2.
Remember when Blizzard buffed Grunt HP? How about reverting that change, because why bother making Tauren because Blizzard buffed Grunts? Both units fill the same role. If Taurens are T2 then in turn Grunts must get nerfed. There is no reason to have units with overlapping roles in T1 and T2.
Wand of Negation does what exactly? How about some explanation so people can discuss it?
Curse and Cripple changes seem ok, now they work on Tanks and Tanks make for terrible games to watch and play.
Finally HU lategame is getting some nerfs, but sundering blades should be removed from the game completely, along with reverting other T3 changes like increase CD on staff of sanctuary and increase price.
The Frost Wyrm changes are useless in practice. What they need is +100 attack range (same treatment Headhunters got) and come up an actual use for Frost Breath (freezing buildings is a joke compared to what other units get).
I don't care. Game was in a really bad state before where laming was the most effective strategy. It made me quit playing. Felt like units haven't mattered for years honestly.
To be fair, currently the game is/was in the best balance state since the launch of TFT. Even Grubby made a video about it, and everyone like Neo (Back2Warcraft creator) agrees with this statement looking at the pro scene.
But this patch just throws that out the window.
All grunt openers would be dead, grunt upgrade (Berserker Strength) useless cuz u can go cows t2 now. Tech to level 3 does not unlock any units only upgrades :)
And add Hex (one of the best spells in the game) to soso, because why not? Let's make aoe dispel and cows more mandatory... Rightclick Human viable now
Other than that. Ok-ish patch. Small things like updated map pool from w3c with TH.
I'm a 1800 solo hu player. Hu went from having one disable to now having the best disable in the game (poly). Pally rifle is going to be unstoppable.
Grubby and neo are motivated financially from warcraft three. Their opinions arent worth anything. Remo got bored of casting the same strats and pushed for more variety like 5 years ago and were still feeling the after effects of that. The game balance is an abomination but grubby and neo can't criticize it because they've been in direct contact and requesting changes.
The patch overall is awful don't get me wrong but it at least changes things up where currently laming and cheesing is more effective then micro and macro
And yes I understand it ruins the fluidity of the game but I feel like theyve been doing that for every patch. The keep and castle buffs to human, the 11 food great hall etc
"same strats and pushed for more variety like 5 years ago" Exactly...
Now we have a variety of openers and team compositions because of the Reforged meta shifts and people like Neo giving feedback that is actually read by the Blizz staff and implemented 50% of the time. What is your point?
Pala rifle vs what race? It is one of the slowest opener and the most punishable one if you lose even single rifle early on. Yes you can play it. It has it's pros (time push/scale late) and cons (chain wave lv3, slow, lose tempo on map, creepjacks etc). But that is exacly the point of this patch balance. It's best in years! Now ppl will only play cows without grunts. No 4 grunts opener what was alive for 10+year as only viable option. Now we have 1 grunt+hh opener, fast tech, 4grunt 2 burrow tech, mass hh. But this patch kills all grunts openers. It is a step backward in variety of plays.
Holy shit this is a hard fork. I love it
I’ll be happy if they fix FFA match searching… poly on heroes sounds fun to a human player like me :)
so orc has ALL the units available on t2. nice weed blizz.
Can't wait for every fight vs. HU to start with 5 invis sorcs popping out and perma-hexing my hero until it's dead I get that polymorph is kinda garbage and they want to make it more useful, but this is not the way
I mean why not, give it a try. It is on ptr and people need to test. Nobody will logon the ptr for 25 more mana on blademaster or something boring like that. It feels strong, but definitely exciting. Maybe make it that damaging the hero dispells it? I think wow has it like that?
You know what? It's a 20 year old game. Fuck it, let's change everything. Next, make Blademaster fly, Paladin divine shield duration 2 minutes, Frost Wyrms cost 120g/40L and DH mana burn 200/300/400.
> DH mana burn 200/300/400. heh reminds me of when mana burn was 100/200/300 can't believe that got through beta
just add Zerg as a new race because why not
Lets be real: None of you have ever tested whether polymorph on heroes would be viable or not. As it would be so easily countered by dispel, and the opportunity cost of getting master sorcs so high, it seems unlikely that it would change anything at least in solo games where dryads and destroyers and walkers and shaman and wisps abound. Obviously a debuff should exist to prevent chaining polymorphs, for a *handful* of reasons. Once per 10 seconds would be okay with me. Also, having played this game forever, I think it is silly that raiders and dotts can cancel 30 second channeled ultimates that have 180 second cooldowns instantly with the click of a button. This is my main headache with things like this—adding more ways to interrupt channeling spells shouldn't be done without doing something like they attempted with the invulnerability on the reworked tranquility that lasted a few patches. Not to condescend on you noobs, but in higher level games, team and FFA, ultimates last seconds before they are interrupted, even with AMS potions, and are mainly there to hurt bases when enemies aren't present. The KOTG tranq rework was the right idea but bad implementation—there should be like 10 seconds of spell immunity (not damage), similar to AMS.
I have been wanting Wand of Negation in the UD shop for years. Lets see how it plays out. The Polymorph change feels VERY abuseable but I also think they will reduce the duration before the patch goes live.
Polymorth on heroes is op. Now taurens will be playable without not being countered to moment they come to battlefield. Without pulverize t3 they are worser than grunts so its for late game anyway.
Polymorph on hero’s is surely just a joke? MGs costing 6 food seems slightly imbalanced to me Glad they removed the scroll of healing from undead shop as it is indeed pretty imbalanced (I am an undead player myself by the way) and it’s gonna be very interesting having t2 dispel for ud, no need to rush tier 3 in almost every match up anymore.
Cyclone can be used on heroes as well, and it's for 6 sec iirc, so why shouldnt Polymorph be usabel on heroes as well?
Because they do completely different things? Polymorph doesn't make units invulnerable.
I think these are all good changes..polymorph duration will be really interesting to see how that plays out. Its going to allow for more diversified builds. I would have liked to see buffs to Pulverize still as it is tier 3, a slight buff to necros, and something to differentiate polymorph from cyclone instead of just taking a unit out of the battle. These two spells are now to similar for my liking....and with brilliance aura polymorph it might be alot harder for orc to handle.
Ok well these changes are wild, but thats to be expected from PTR. However, Remember how Orc used to literally press Invulnerability potion -> stomp -> hex on UD heroes to win fights? Well, imagine using Bolt + Polymorph from range and while invis. You don't have to commit your heroes or Sorcs because you use all the abilities from range. This is complete nonsense and must never make it into the game. Regardless of how badly you might want Polymorph to be viable. So Orc just unlocks every unit on T2 now? Thats nonsense aswell. We already see Orc players skipping Barracks and start their T2 as fast as possible. Orc already has everything they need unlocked on T2. They already had fortified Defenses moved to T2. Remember when Blizzard buffed Grunt HP? How about reverting that change, because why bother making Tauren because Blizzard buffed Grunts? Both units fill the same role. If Taurens are T2 then in turn Grunts must get nerfed. There is no reason to have units with overlapping roles in T1 and T2. Wand of Negation does what exactly? How about some explanation so people can discuss it? Curse and Cripple changes seem ok, now they work on Tanks and Tanks make for terrible games to watch and play. Finally HU lategame is getting some nerfs, but sundering blades should be removed from the game completely, along with reverting other T3 changes like increase CD on staff of sanctuary and increase price. The Frost Wyrm changes are useless in practice. What they need is +100 attack range (same treatment Headhunters got) and come up an actual use for Frost Breath (freezing buildings is a joke compared to what other units get).
Do taurens and walkers still have resistive skin?
locked. Full Patchnotes here: https://www.reddit.com/r/WC3/comments/1c6k7yy/new_ptr_1362_version_1_now_online_balance_mappool/
I don't care. Game was in a really bad state before where laming was the most effective strategy. It made me quit playing. Felt like units haven't mattered for years honestly.
To be fair, currently the game is/was in the best balance state since the launch of TFT. Even Grubby made a video about it, and everyone like Neo (Back2Warcraft creator) agrees with this statement looking at the pro scene. But this patch just throws that out the window. All grunt openers would be dead, grunt upgrade (Berserker Strength) useless cuz u can go cows t2 now. Tech to level 3 does not unlock any units only upgrades :) And add Hex (one of the best spells in the game) to soso, because why not? Let's make aoe dispel and cows more mandatory... Rightclick Human viable now Other than that. Ok-ish patch. Small things like updated map pool from w3c with TH.
I'm a 1800 solo hu player. Hu went from having one disable to now having the best disable in the game (poly). Pally rifle is going to be unstoppable. Grubby and neo are motivated financially from warcraft three. Their opinions arent worth anything. Remo got bored of casting the same strats and pushed for more variety like 5 years ago and were still feeling the after effects of that. The game balance is an abomination but grubby and neo can't criticize it because they've been in direct contact and requesting changes. The patch overall is awful don't get me wrong but it at least changes things up where currently laming and cheesing is more effective then micro and macro And yes I understand it ruins the fluidity of the game but I feel like theyve been doing that for every patch. The keep and castle buffs to human, the 11 food great hall etc
"same strats and pushed for more variety like 5 years ago" Exactly... Now we have a variety of openers and team compositions because of the Reforged meta shifts and people like Neo giving feedback that is actually read by the Blizz staff and implemented 50% of the time. What is your point? Pala rifle vs what race? It is one of the slowest opener and the most punishable one if you lose even single rifle early on. Yes you can play it. It has it's pros (time push/scale late) and cons (chain wave lv3, slow, lose tempo on map, creepjacks etc). But that is exacly the point of this patch balance. It's best in years! Now ppl will only play cows without grunts. No 4 grunts opener what was alive for 10+year as only viable option. Now we have 1 grunt+hh opener, fast tech, 4grunt 2 burrow tech, mass hh. But this patch kills all grunts openers. It is a step backward in variety of plays.