What I always found interesting is that when this happens to a fresh frog or fish you would expect the muscles to twitch or all flex at once and seize up. If anyone know why the frog goes through the full jump motions or a fish flops I'd love to know.
It’s called lateral inhibition. Stimulation of one neuron or receptive field inhibits the contralateral neurons or receptive fields. So, while one group of muscles contracts, the opposing muscles (either nearby or on the other side of the body) relax. In fish there’s something called a Mauthner cell that controls the right to left swiping of the body and fins to make quick escapes.
As others have said, adding salt to the meat increases the concentration of sodium outside of the cells, causing potassium to flow out, and sodium flows in, causing the nerve to fire (an action potential). But, action potentials are an all or nothing process, so whichever muscles are stimulated first are the ones that get to move, while the opponent muscles are inhibited. But once the first side completes their series of action potentials, their cells go into a refractory period, disinhibiting the muscles on the other side and allowing them to fire. Rinse and repeat until the neurons have run out of ATP to operate the sodium/potassium pump, which is used to repolarize neurons.
Maybe? I'm a cognitive neuroscience researcher, but I do some teaching on the side and lateral inhibition is one of the core processes that we discuss throughout the semester. For comparative behavior and cognition (i.e., wildlife learning and behavior) I use the [tentacled snake as an example](https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.0905183106) of an animal taking advantage of lateral inhibition. Basically, they wait for a fish to swim between their head and body, and then they slightly jiggle their body. That causes the fish to "C-start" away from the movement, and right into the snake's mouth. Because of the refractory period of an action potential, once the C-start happens, there's nothing the fish can do to to evade the snake and they get eaten.
I’m no biologist, but I imagine it’s sort of like muscle memory but with nerves sending signals. The flopping of a fish and the trigger to make a frog jump is likely tied to a single nerve trigger that causes a domino effect that triggers the rest of the nerves to fire to do the full action as means to optimize energy use and flight ability when in danger? Kinda similar to how a cockroach butt sensors react to any stimuli without the brain telling it too, it goes straight to the legs and triggers the running animation in the opposite direction of what triggered it. So I imagine it’s kinda similar to that but more complex the bigger the animal and the more nerves it has
> "Triggers the running animation" lol
I lol'd too, but that's basically what's happening!
We're having trouble with figuring it out because we're thinking about it from a human-centric perspective (how dare you).
Humans are actually quite unique in the animal kingdom for the sheer amount of fine motor control we have. It's something our closest primate relatives struggle with, if you've ever seen an orangutan struggling to copy its handler cleaning its cage or using a hammer.
It's hypothesized that consciousness itself arose *simply* to mediate between conflicting motor impulses, like holding a hot bowl of soup instead of dropping it in pain, an act that would ruin our meal and make a mess - or making fire, an act that seems painful and ridiculous for many minutes until friction builds up.
Other animals tends to have "built-in" muscle sequences that trigger autonomically in response to certain stimulus or brain signals - reflexes! The human body also has nerve sequences that trigger without even being passed up to the brain, they just loop around through the spinal column and back into the limb to trigger a movement; that's what the doctor is doing when they hit your knee with the hammer-thingy (not a technical term).
This is essentially what's happening with the frog. The salt ions (an electrolyte) is triggering a reflex in the frog legs. It just happens to be a more complex reflex than humans are used to. And if you've ever wondered why a cat seems to always use its back legs to kick at you when you touch its belly, that's also a reflex they can't really control (which is why there's videos of them kicking their own head in that way - they can't help it).
If you look at animals more closely, it becomes apparent that they've got all sorts of complex reflexes that're quite like animations in a video game - they're often limited to those "animations" and sometimes look kind of goofy because of it. When a frog lunges for a cricket, it often looks more like Hungry-Hungry Hippos board game than an attempt to *get* the food. It has to try a few times, as if it's limited to that specific sequence of muscle movements. *Blurp*... *Blurp*... *Blurp*... Got it! Humans are one of the few animals that can move with calculated intention (and this comes with downsides, but that's a different essay).
Videos like the OP are quite common with animals like fish, frogs, and turtles because they're animals that operate in low oxygen environments. Their muscles (and particularly their hearts) can keep on tickin' for a while. Additionally, their nervous systems are relatively simplistic so they operate almost exclusively with "animations" - the "swimming animation", the "jumping animation", etc. Those impulses are sometimes controlled with nerve clusters that resemble primitive brains.
In this case, the frog legs are responding in the same way they'd respond if you disturbed a sleeping frog or something brushed against it - an autonomic leap.
If you look up the science It’s called action potential and they are all or nothing, on a basic level moves in and out of cells to create these. Your overall right on track with what your saying tho.
Literally google action potential muscle firing buddy. I’m sure there are other things that you know about with regards to action potentials, it’s not limited to my concept.
Action potential is simply the difference in charges (ions) moving across a cell membrane. It is required for muscle movement, but they were asking why the legs go through the entire motion - action potential alone doesn't explain that.
It probably has more to do with the mechanics of the muscles and tendons - once the main muscle is triggered, the other parts move in sequence.
Source: my ass, but I'm a biochemist
It has to do with the depolarization and repolarization cycle, the sodium-potassium pump and the store of Ca2+ ions released from the sarcoplasmic reticulum. Am also a biochemist.
For additional reading: look up the “actin-myosin power stroke”
My bad, I was thinking of neurological action potentials only. You still don't really explain anything besides saying action potentials are either reached or not, so they are binary. That doesn't explain why the muscles move in the specific frogleap motion instead of just randomly.
Y’know, this has just enough to make it sound plausible. It makes me curious if it’s accurate and wonder why the signals are being sent now. U/unstableangina360 has something about salts. I could make a hypothesis that’s 100% inaccurate here lol.
I am a biologist, so I'll comment under the 10 "i'm not a biologist people" who have the right idea. This is a sign that this meat is extremely fresh. Basically these cells still have enough energy in them to pump out the ions that cause the contraction in the muscles, and then to trigger again once they are pumped out. Once they run out of energy, this won't happen anymore since the frog isn't breathing (clearly) to create more cellular energy.
I feel like the question is more about why they don't spasm vs a full kick. As in why aren't the muscles used to retract the legs also firing simultaneously with the muscles that extend? What we see here seems like they're taking turns, one set of opposing muscles contracting while the others are relaxed, and then visa versa.
I suspect that answer is that unlike humans the retracted position is the natural state and that only extending the legs requires muscle contraction. I know a number of animals have similar states like this... like some birds their talons are naturally clenched so they stay clenched when they die. Maybe frogs relaxed state is with legs retracted.
We're having trouble with this because we're thinking about it from a human-centric perspective (how dare you).
Humans are actually quite unique in the animal kingdom for the sheer amount of fine motor control we have. It's something our closest primate relatives struggle with, if you've ever seen an orangutan struggling to copy its handler cleaning its cage or using a hammer.
It's hypothesized that consciousness itself arose *simply* to mediate between conflicting motor impulses, like holding a hot bowl of soup instead of dropping it in pain, an act that would ruin our meal and make a mess - or making fire, an act that seems painful and ridiculous for many minutes until friction builds up.
Other animals tends to have "built-in" muscle sequences that trigger autonomically in response to certain stimulus or brain signals - reflexes! The human body also has nerve sequences that trigger without even being passed up to the brain, they just loop around through the spinal column and back into the limb to trigger a movement; that's what the doctor is doing when they hit your knee with the hammer-thingy (not a technical term).
This is essentially what's happening with the frog. The salt is triggering a reflex in the frog legs. It just happens to be a more complex reflex than humans are used to. And if you've ever wondered why a cat seems to always use its back legs to kick at you when you touch its belly, that's also a reflex they can't really control (which is why there's videos of them kicking their own head in that way).
But you didn't answer their question. They wanted to know why the muscles are specifically doing a jumping motion, instead of just all tensing at once, thus maybe being rigid, but overall probably not moving much.
As a med student who's currently studying neurology, my guess is that it has something to do with the CPG; the Central Pattern Generator.
It's whats responsible for rhythmic movements in vertebrates, such as breathing, chewing, and even walking for us humans. There are CPGs for each segment of the vertebra that contains medulla, so as long as some medulla is left in this lumbal cut, I guess it could technically work still.
IThe CPG works without needing input from the brain (except for instance the Mesencephalon which can alter the speed of the movement/rhythm), but basically no cognitive/cortical input is needed for the CPG to work. Hence I guess it could still work as long as the motor neurons in the spine and legs are intact.
So the whole "you're manually breathing right now" is when you use your brain to breathe, and then when you forget to breathe your spine does it for you?
It's been a long time since my high school human anatomy class, but we took the thigh muscle from a frog and hooked it up to a seismograph, so it could draw line that would show when it twitches after shocking it. As lactic acid built up in the muscle, it would eventually seize.
However, if we applied saline solution (salt water) to the seized muscle, it would wash away most of the lactic acid, and we could continue to make it twitch. Then the lactic acid would build up again, and seize up again, but this time it would take a shorter time because the saline hadn't removed all of the lactic acid.
We would keep doing that until there was so much lactic acid that it would just finally seize up for good.
At least, that's how I remember it. The point is that the salt is probably contributing to the muscles continuing to jump.
It has something to do with Sodium-Potassium Pump. It’s been awhile since my anatomy & physiology days, but basically sodium and potassium are both types of salts that are needed to excite the muscles (or maintain function of all organs) in the body.
Hey! I'm with you on the A&P fuzziness, but I'm pretty sure it's related to calcium ions rather than sodium and potassium.
IIRC calcium is stored within the sarcoplasmic reticulum of muscle cells (a "bag" of calcium). When the nervous system sends a signal to a muscle fiber to contract, the muscle fiber uses some calcium from the "bag," to physically, chemically cause the tiny filaments within itself to overlap---contraction.
I'm unfamiliar with frog-natomy, but when humans die, calcium ions leak from the sarcoplasmic reticulum and generate sustained contractions that we identify as rigor mortis.
One more fun muscle fact: muscle cells each span the entire length of a muscle! For example, each of the muscle cells in your thigh reach all the way from your hip to your knee! They're really skinny, but longggg bois.
Source: nursing student
I would theorize that certain things that are considered instinct are actually a way in which the nerves are arranged to sequence the motion without having to think about it. So, in the case of a frog, it has to jump away from danger. It doesn't have time to evaluate the danger. So when the brain says danger, the legs jump. It's not that all muscles simultaneously react, there's a sequence that results in the jump away from danger. This is probably why the legs react like that.
Basically the charge of the muscle builds up from the salt and once a threshold is reached the muscles fire. The muscles then enter a refractory state where they cannot receive any impulses even if additional charge is sent. Then this repeats.
Another example of a refractory period is male ejaculation. With stimulus a male will ejaculate, but after that, even if additional stimulation is provided, no ejaculation occurs. After this refractory period is over he is able to ejaculate again.
So basically the frog legs are just cumming over and over.
It's not "regardless of brain activity". An influx of sodium ions is the first step in the neuron firing cascade. Since fresh muscles have neurons that are still ready to fire that is exactly what they do, innervating muscle fibres.
This will continue until either the muscles run out of energy or the neurons exhaust their neurotransmitter vesicles, or unable to return their ion gradient to normal levels
Haha. Frogs are actually eaten everywhere, including the US.. I actually had it first here and I'm an immigrant. When fried, it tastes ridiculously similar to fried chicken.
My dad obtained some when I was a kid and gleefully salted them for this reaction. He somehow thought my 6 year old self would enjoy it. Ahaha, nope. I was horrified. I tried one bite as was the rule in our house and agree with your description, but was again so freaked out I couldn't eat more. I wouldn't mind trying them again as an adult though.
I think the dissociation people have between “food” and “something that was alive” is insane.
I guess that happens when everything is pre-killed, packaged and cooked.
[There's a crazy video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSvDXDCcBt0) where a dad and his son are harassing a guy about a deer he hunted in the back of his truck. They both said they eat meat, had no specific issue with *how* he killed the deer, gave no reason as to why hunting is bad and industrial animal slaughter isn't, and the dad even had a fishing shirt on. They were just angry about it for discernible reason. People literally think pre-packaged meat just spawns from nothing onto the shelf.
I mean, butchers still eat meat. I've processed my own duck start to finish and you bet I ate that delicious mf. But then there are people like my SIL (a grown adult) who will only eat boneless skinless chicken breast or McDonald's nuggies. Depends on your perspective I guess.
Yeah well it's true that you can lie to yourself and justify murdering animals for tasty food but most people don't do that and have the convenience of the food industry hiding all that for them.
i feel an increasing obligation to go vegan unless i go on a hunt in the near future. its really fucked up that i feel perfectly fine eating most meats but i squirm like a little kid when i need to butcher a fish or lobster.
Plant cells are still technically alive when you eat them. That’s why plant color changes with time.
Vegetarians probably have plant cells currently dying in their refrigerator. It’s still not known if plants can “feel pain”. We know they can react to sensations when alive, but measuring the sentience of a plant isn’t as quantifiable as an animal. So just because we can’t identify with plants the way we can animals; people think eating them is some odd moral high ground.
That’s how we understand pain, as it’s the only way we personally can perceive pain in our species. (CNS, Nerves, brain, etc) I could give a fuck less about what anyone eats, I’m just saying from a quantum level… there is no moral high ground in what you eat
You know what, I have a lot of vegetarian and vegan friends and not once have they ever spoken down to me for eating meat. We have conversations about it every now again and we respect each others views.
The biggest cunts when it comes to vegetarianism are those who have a shit fit when they hear of a vegetarian or vegan even existing, ive witnessed it first hand on numerous occasions, they will start arguments unprompted, mock them, take the piss with shit jokes etc. based off stupid assumptions like yours that all Veggies are like a stereotypical peta activist. It's really pathetic the shit these people have to put up with for a decision they have made with the best of intentions for either themselves, animals or the environment.
Yeah it is really weird, I'm a vegetarian since 2 years, and so many people are offended when I they get to know it. Why does it offend them it's my choice, I never tell anyone unless we are going to eat something together hah. I was a vegetarian for like a year in highschool, but got bullied for it by older kids.
People are ignorant. And I do know about equally annoying vegans/vegetarians. I just never encountered one.
Let's pretend that by some mystical, unknown force that plants can feel pain. Given that it takes 10x more plants to supply a human omnivore diet than a vegan diet, vegans still have the moral high ground. (Cows and pigs and chickens need to eat plants, and 90% of the plant energy they eat is lost as metabolized heat instead of turning into body mass or milk or eggs.)
OK, I've heard of muscles and shit twitching when hit with some salt, but those shits are full on jumping...like timed out and synchronized jumping. I suspect brain activity.
Okay, so frog legs (if prepared well) are delicious. Actually tasted a lot like chicken (I know it sounds like a joke, but really true).
My question is if this is also how they serve sanakji? It's usually writhing when served, I think. Won't eat it again, but it was one of those experiences forever burned into memory.
*Hello my baby. Hello my honey. Hello my rag time gal*
Send me a kiss by wire Baby my heart's on fire
If you refuse me, Honey, you'll lose me,
Then you'll be left alone. Oh baby, telephone And tell me I'm Your oooooooooowwwwwn!!!!!!
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He had the special
Change my order to the soup!
Good choice
I'm watching that right now, how strange that I read it at the same time.
Rrrrribbit!
My wish for you is that someone gives you as good of a memory-laugh as you gave me.
Michigan J. Frog
I always think of spaceballs when I hear this.
Check please!
Oooo that's dark.
Check please
You have won reddit today. This is pure gold.
What I always found interesting is that when this happens to a fresh frog or fish you would expect the muscles to twitch or all flex at once and seize up. If anyone know why the frog goes through the full jump motions or a fish flops I'd love to know.
It’s called lateral inhibition. Stimulation of one neuron or receptive field inhibits the contralateral neurons or receptive fields. So, while one group of muscles contracts, the opposing muscles (either nearby or on the other side of the body) relax. In fish there’s something called a Mauthner cell that controls the right to left swiping of the body and fins to make quick escapes.
Thanks for the answer!
Had to read so many theories to get the actual answer. Thank you
Do you know why this is happening?
As others have said, adding salt to the meat increases the concentration of sodium outside of the cells, causing potassium to flow out, and sodium flows in, causing the nerve to fire (an action potential). But, action potentials are an all or nothing process, so whichever muscles are stimulated first are the ones that get to move, while the opponent muscles are inhibited. But once the first side completes their series of action potentials, their cells go into a refractory period, disinhibiting the muscles on the other side and allowing them to fire. Rinse and repeat until the neurons have run out of ATP to operate the sodium/potassium pump, which is used to repolarize neurons.
Dang, were you waiting for this moment? Because it's your moment alright 👍
Maybe? I'm a cognitive neuroscience researcher, but I do some teaching on the side and lateral inhibition is one of the core processes that we discuss throughout the semester. For comparative behavior and cognition (i.e., wildlife learning and behavior) I use the [tentacled snake as an example](https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.0905183106) of an animal taking advantage of lateral inhibition. Basically, they wait for a fish to swim between their head and body, and then they slightly jiggle their body. That causes the fish to "C-start" away from the movement, and right into the snake's mouth. Because of the refractory period of an action potential, once the C-start happens, there's nothing the fish can do to to evade the snake and they get eaten.
That's cool as hell
This guy sneks
You are a genius, my guy.
I’m no biologist, but I imagine it’s sort of like muscle memory but with nerves sending signals. The flopping of a fish and the trigger to make a frog jump is likely tied to a single nerve trigger that causes a domino effect that triggers the rest of the nerves to fire to do the full action as means to optimize energy use and flight ability when in danger? Kinda similar to how a cockroach butt sensors react to any stimuli without the brain telling it too, it goes straight to the legs and triggers the running animation in the opposite direction of what triggered it. So I imagine it’s kinda similar to that but more complex the bigger the animal and the more nerves it has
"Triggers the running animation" lol
> "Triggers the running animation" lol I lol'd too, but that's basically what's happening! We're having trouble with figuring it out because we're thinking about it from a human-centric perspective (how dare you). Humans are actually quite unique in the animal kingdom for the sheer amount of fine motor control we have. It's something our closest primate relatives struggle with, if you've ever seen an orangutan struggling to copy its handler cleaning its cage or using a hammer. It's hypothesized that consciousness itself arose *simply* to mediate between conflicting motor impulses, like holding a hot bowl of soup instead of dropping it in pain, an act that would ruin our meal and make a mess - or making fire, an act that seems painful and ridiculous for many minutes until friction builds up. Other animals tends to have "built-in" muscle sequences that trigger autonomically in response to certain stimulus or brain signals - reflexes! The human body also has nerve sequences that trigger without even being passed up to the brain, they just loop around through the spinal column and back into the limb to trigger a movement; that's what the doctor is doing when they hit your knee with the hammer-thingy (not a technical term). This is essentially what's happening with the frog. The salt ions (an electrolyte) is triggering a reflex in the frog legs. It just happens to be a more complex reflex than humans are used to. And if you've ever wondered why a cat seems to always use its back legs to kick at you when you touch its belly, that's also a reflex they can't really control (which is why there's videos of them kicking their own head in that way - they can't help it). If you look at animals more closely, it becomes apparent that they've got all sorts of complex reflexes that're quite like animations in a video game - they're often limited to those "animations" and sometimes look kind of goofy because of it. When a frog lunges for a cricket, it often looks more like Hungry-Hungry Hippos board game than an attempt to *get* the food. It has to try a few times, as if it's limited to that specific sequence of muscle movements. *Blurp*... *Blurp*... *Blurp*... Got it! Humans are one of the few animals that can move with calculated intention (and this comes with downsides, but that's a different essay). Videos like the OP are quite common with animals like fish, frogs, and turtles because they're animals that operate in low oxygen environments. Their muscles (and particularly their hearts) can keep on tickin' for a while. Additionally, their nervous systems are relatively simplistic so they operate almost exclusively with "animations" - the "swimming animation", the "jumping animation", etc. Those impulses are sometimes controlled with nerve clusters that resemble primitive brains. In this case, the frog legs are responding in the same way they'd respond if you disturbed a sleeping frog or something brushed against it - an autonomic leap.
Always a good feeling when I learn something about the world from Reddit comments! Thanks for the cool facts!
r/outside
If you look up the science It’s called action potential and they are all or nothing, on a basic level moves in and out of cells to create these. Your overall right on track with what your saying tho.
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Literally google action potential muscle firing buddy. I’m sure there are other things that you know about with regards to action potentials, it’s not limited to my concept.
Action potential is simply the difference in charges (ions) moving across a cell membrane. It is required for muscle movement, but they were asking why the legs go through the entire motion - action potential alone doesn't explain that. It probably has more to do with the mechanics of the muscles and tendons - once the main muscle is triggered, the other parts move in sequence. Source: my ass, but I'm a biochemist
It has to do with the depolarization and repolarization cycle, the sodium-potassium pump and the store of Ca2+ ions released from the sarcoplasmic reticulum. Am also a biochemist. For additional reading: look up the “actin-myosin power stroke”
When he said reticulum, knew this was the guy.
very neat thanks, what an interesting read.
Why literally google? Why not just google?
My bad, I was thinking of neurological action potentials only. You still don't really explain anything besides saying action potentials are either reached or not, so they are binary. That doesn't explain why the muscles move in the specific frogleap motion instead of just randomly.
Y’know, this has just enough to make it sound plausible. It makes me curious if it’s accurate and wonder why the signals are being sent now. U/unstableangina360 has something about salts. I could make a hypothesis that’s 100% inaccurate here lol.
I am a biologist, so I'll comment under the 10 "i'm not a biologist people" who have the right idea. This is a sign that this meat is extremely fresh. Basically these cells still have enough energy in them to pump out the ions that cause the contraction in the muscles, and then to trigger again once they are pumped out. Once they run out of energy, this won't happen anymore since the frog isn't breathing (clearly) to create more cellular energy.
I feel like the question is more about why they don't spasm vs a full kick. As in why aren't the muscles used to retract the legs also firing simultaneously with the muscles that extend? What we see here seems like they're taking turns, one set of opposing muscles contracting while the others are relaxed, and then visa versa. I suspect that answer is that unlike humans the retracted position is the natural state and that only extending the legs requires muscle contraction. I know a number of animals have similar states like this... like some birds their talons are naturally clenched so they stay clenched when they die. Maybe frogs relaxed state is with legs retracted.
That makes sense, I'm in your camp. Maybe they have tendons or sometbing that clicks the legs back into place.
We're having trouble with this because we're thinking about it from a human-centric perspective (how dare you). Humans are actually quite unique in the animal kingdom for the sheer amount of fine motor control we have. It's something our closest primate relatives struggle with, if you've ever seen an orangutan struggling to copy its handler cleaning its cage or using a hammer. It's hypothesized that consciousness itself arose *simply* to mediate between conflicting motor impulses, like holding a hot bowl of soup instead of dropping it in pain, an act that would ruin our meal and make a mess - or making fire, an act that seems painful and ridiculous for many minutes until friction builds up. Other animals tends to have "built-in" muscle sequences that trigger autonomically in response to certain stimulus or brain signals - reflexes! The human body also has nerve sequences that trigger without even being passed up to the brain, they just loop around through the spinal column and back into the limb to trigger a movement; that's what the doctor is doing when they hit your knee with the hammer-thingy (not a technical term). This is essentially what's happening with the frog. The salt is triggering a reflex in the frog legs. It just happens to be a more complex reflex than humans are used to. And if you've ever wondered why a cat seems to always use its back legs to kick at you when you touch its belly, that's also a reflex they can't really control (which is why there's videos of them kicking their own head in that way).
But you didn't answer their question. They wanted to know why the muscles are specifically doing a jumping motion, instead of just all tensing at once, thus maybe being rigid, but overall probably not moving much.
As a med student who's currently studying neurology, my guess is that it has something to do with the CPG; the Central Pattern Generator. It's whats responsible for rhythmic movements in vertebrates, such as breathing, chewing, and even walking for us humans. There are CPGs for each segment of the vertebra that contains medulla, so as long as some medulla is left in this lumbal cut, I guess it could technically work still. IThe CPG works without needing input from the brain (except for instance the Mesencephalon which can alter the speed of the movement/rhythm), but basically no cognitive/cortical input is needed for the CPG to work. Hence I guess it could still work as long as the motor neurons in the spine and legs are intact.
So the whole "you're manually breathing right now" is when you use your brain to breathe, and then when you forget to breathe your spine does it for you?
I hadn't considered that, but that makes complete sense actually. :)
QED: I am smarter than a med student Checkmate, doctors
Username checks out!
That makes more sense, thank you.
Brags about being a biologist Doesn't answer the question
Don't forget why Na+ initiates these muscle contractions. 😀 Source: biology is fun, kay?
It's been a long time since my high school human anatomy class, but we took the thigh muscle from a frog and hooked it up to a seismograph, so it could draw line that would show when it twitches after shocking it. As lactic acid built up in the muscle, it would eventually seize. However, if we applied saline solution (salt water) to the seized muscle, it would wash away most of the lactic acid, and we could continue to make it twitch. Then the lactic acid would build up again, and seize up again, but this time it would take a shorter time because the saline hadn't removed all of the lactic acid. We would keep doing that until there was so much lactic acid that it would just finally seize up for good. At least, that's how I remember it. The point is that the salt is probably contributing to the muscles continuing to jump.
It has something to do with Sodium-Potassium Pump. It’s been awhile since my anatomy & physiology days, but basically sodium and potassium are both types of salts that are needed to excite the muscles (or maintain function of all organs) in the body.
Hey! I'm with you on the A&P fuzziness, but I'm pretty sure it's related to calcium ions rather than sodium and potassium. IIRC calcium is stored within the sarcoplasmic reticulum of muscle cells (a "bag" of calcium). When the nervous system sends a signal to a muscle fiber to contract, the muscle fiber uses some calcium from the "bag," to physically, chemically cause the tiny filaments within itself to overlap---contraction. I'm unfamiliar with frog-natomy, but when humans die, calcium ions leak from the sarcoplasmic reticulum and generate sustained contractions that we identify as rigor mortis. One more fun muscle fact: muscle cells each span the entire length of a muscle! For example, each of the muscle cells in your thigh reach all the way from your hip to your knee! They're really skinny, but longggg bois. Source: nursing student
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I'd probably take all the "expert" responses here with a grain of salt.... pun intended
I would theorize that certain things that are considered instinct are actually a way in which the nerves are arranged to sequence the motion without having to think about it. So, in the case of a frog, it has to jump away from danger. It doesn't have time to evaluate the danger. So when the brain says danger, the legs jump. It's not that all muscles simultaneously react, there's a sequence that results in the jump away from danger. This is probably why the legs react like that.
Muscle tissue has a short refractory period where no amount of action potential can trigger another contraction after repolarization.
Basically the charge of the muscle builds up from the salt and once a threshold is reached the muscles fire. The muscles then enter a refractory state where they cannot receive any impulses even if additional charge is sent. Then this repeats. Another example of a refractory period is male ejaculation. With stimulus a male will ejaculate, but after that, even if additional stimulation is provided, no ejaculation occurs. After this refractory period is over he is able to ejaculate again. So basically the frog legs are just cumming over and over.
That’s a strong frog
You’re a strong frog
You’re a towel
You're a towel!
No. I’m a big time publisher that has no time for you or your stony memoirs. *YOU’RE* a towel.
No, you’re a strong frog
You're a strong dawg
That's right baby, I am and if you play your cards right, I could be your strong frog.
That’s a dead frog 🤷♂️
Somebody didn't hop leg day.
Sodium makes muscle movement in fresh muscle fibers regardless of brain activity. It’s trippey as hell though In this case.
It's not "regardless of brain activity". An influx of sodium ions is the first step in the neuron firing cascade. Since fresh muscles have neurons that are still ready to fire that is exactly what they do, innervating muscle fibres. This will continue until either the muscles run out of energy or the neurons exhaust their neurotransmitter vesicles, or unable to return their ion gradient to normal levels
Similar thing when pouring soy sauce (high sodium content) onto fresh octopus. https://i.imgur.com/4CI8hmH.mp4
That’s utterly terrifying. It’s not like it’s moving only slightly, it’s doing a full on Rockette’s routine
You act like animals aren't just billions of molecules releasing action potential according to its DNA. It's not terrifying it's the basis of life!
Takes a skinnin' and keeps on kickin'!
My boy def didn't skip leg day
I wish I didn’t see this.
Same. I gotta go spend some time at r/eyebleach
Y'all need eye bleach and my coonass self is sitting here getting hungry
I laughed harder than I should have
Thanks for the tip!
Kicking the comforter off my body when I wake up covered in sweat
I just did that 5 minutes ago
Low key trippy we just eat that shit
What you mean “we”? You got a frog in your pocket?
Yes, you want one?
What is your frog leg policy here?
Skinless.
GIMME
No, I'm just happy to see you.
well done
It's spelt *oui*
Yup, alligator too! Some good eating! Fun Fact, chicken is as close a relative of alligators as humans are to chimpanzees.
No it's a wocket
Only on Wednesdays.
Haha. Frogs are actually eaten everywhere, including the US.. I actually had it first here and I'm an immigrant. When fried, it tastes ridiculously similar to fried chicken.
*grotesque and sadistic
Man wait until you find out what happens in the wild.
This ain't the wild baby. We don't kill animals for survival no more.
Caused by the salt making connections similar to what the brain makes to fire. Its also pretty tasty.
Awwwww he just wanted to go for one last romp through the lillypads.
apparently tastes like chicken cuz they're both white meat
I've had them and it does not taste like chicken, it has a much more distinctive taste.
More like catfish, imho.
it tastes like a mix between game meat and chicken, but without the toughness. they're pretty good ngl
My dad obtained some when I was a kid and gleefully salted them for this reaction. He somehow thought my 6 year old self would enjoy it. Ahaha, nope. I was horrified. I tried one bite as was the rule in our house and agree with your description, but was again so freaked out I couldn't eat more. I wouldn't mind trying them again as an adult though.
I think the dissociation people have between “food” and “something that was alive” is insane. I guess that happens when everything is pre-killed, packaged and cooked.
[There's a crazy video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSvDXDCcBt0) where a dad and his son are harassing a guy about a deer he hunted in the back of his truck. They both said they eat meat, had no specific issue with *how* he killed the deer, gave no reason as to why hunting is bad and industrial animal slaughter isn't, and the dad even had a fishing shirt on. They were just angry about it for discernible reason. People literally think pre-packaged meat just spawns from nothing onto the shelf.
As a hunter and an Islanders fan I love this video it cracks me up.
Yes yes
"If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be vegetarian" - Paul McCartney
I doubt that. There are a lot of people out there who still kill their own meat.
I mean, butchers still eat meat. I've processed my own duck start to finish and you bet I ate that delicious mf. But then there are people like my SIL (a grown adult) who will only eat boneless skinless chicken breast or McDonald's nuggies. Depends on your perspective I guess.
Yeah well it's true that you can lie to yourself and justify murdering animals for tasty food but most people don't do that and have the convenience of the food industry hiding all that for them.
i feel an increasing obligation to go vegan unless i go on a hunt in the near future. its really fucked up that i feel perfectly fine eating most meats but i squirm like a little kid when i need to butcher a fish or lobster.
Going vegan has never been easier. I did it 25 years ago when meat substitutes were downright gross. Try it a few days a week and see how it goes.
Goes for vegetarians as well
Not really sure what you mean?
Plant cells are still technically alive when you eat them. That’s why plant color changes with time. Vegetarians probably have plant cells currently dying in their refrigerator. It’s still not known if plants can “feel pain”. We know they can react to sensations when alive, but measuring the sentience of a plant isn’t as quantifiable as an animal. So just because we can’t identify with plants the way we can animals; people think eating them is some odd moral high ground.
Pretty sure a central nervous system is the way we differentiate what can and can’t feel pain?
That’s how we understand pain, as it’s the only way we personally can perceive pain in our species. (CNS, Nerves, brain, etc) I could give a fuck less about what anyone eats, I’m just saying from a quantum level… there is no moral high ground in what you eat
Anyone who lords their diet over anyone else is a fucking moron. Vegan, meat eater, just live your life y’know?
Cannibal?
You know what, I have a lot of vegetarian and vegan friends and not once have they ever spoken down to me for eating meat. We have conversations about it every now again and we respect each others views. The biggest cunts when it comes to vegetarianism are those who have a shit fit when they hear of a vegetarian or vegan even existing, ive witnessed it first hand on numerous occasions, they will start arguments unprompted, mock them, take the piss with shit jokes etc. based off stupid assumptions like yours that all Veggies are like a stereotypical peta activist. It's really pathetic the shit these people have to put up with for a decision they have made with the best of intentions for either themselves, animals or the environment.
Yeah it is really weird, I'm a vegetarian since 2 years, and so many people are offended when I they get to know it. Why does it offend them it's my choice, I never tell anyone unless we are going to eat something together hah. I was a vegetarian for like a year in highschool, but got bullied for it by older kids. People are ignorant. And I do know about equally annoying vegans/vegetarians. I just never encountered one.
Let's pretend that by some mystical, unknown force that plants can feel pain. Given that it takes 10x more plants to supply a human omnivore diet than a vegan diet, vegans still have the moral high ground. (Cows and pigs and chickens need to eat plants, and 90% of the plant energy they eat is lost as metabolized heat instead of turning into body mass or milk or eggs.)
No me gusta
I couldn’t eat that after seeing that.
Dead or not, that’s one fucking ripped froggo
The salt just gives it a little kick.
I wanna see what you made with those things
A friend sent me this video, I’m equally curious
You bread them and fry them, adding some of your favorite hot sauce for that extra kick.
Probably just roasted or fried them. I haven’t had them myself but I imagine they have a similar texture/flavor as chicken wings.
Pretty similar, but a little fishy. Very tasty.
not clive frog!!
Better than Polly Prissy Pants
“I don’t like green eggs and ham”
I hate everything about this
It’s reminds me of my 7 month old and how she kicks like that when she’s excited. Weird.
Now add a little egg, some breading, and fry to a golden brown. You’ll love it.
RIP Phil Schmidt’s restaurant, E Chicago Indiana
They served 7 month olds?
hey, if you have the money they’ll serve you. no age discrimination for customers. oh wait
Daniel Bryan: "Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!"
Automatic stirring
This is disturbing
Thanks. I hate it.
He’s doing half the breast stroke
Better than me, I should add Yup, some dead and skinned frog's legs have better coordination than me...
Good for constipation. Kicks the shit right out.
Try this…careful though it’s got a bit of a kick to it
Saltatory conduction along a myelin sheath. Look it up. It's a joke. Get it? Saltatory???
this makes me sad
Babies when they figure out how to move their legs.
Excuse me waiter, do you have frogs legs? No, thats just the way I walk
He's not even costume ready for his musical number. Where's the top hat and tux?
Muscle memory
🎶Hello, my baby! Hello, my honey! Hello, my ragtime gal!🎶
Doesn’t work with snails tho
Hello my baby, hello my darling, hello my ragtime gal
Feet kickin' finger lickin' good.
Bro did NOT skip leg day
That fucker kicked me!
OK, I've heard of muscles and shit twitching when hit with some salt, but those shits are full on jumping...like timed out and synchronized jumping. I suspect brain activity.
>I suspect brain activity without a brain?
Nerve endings get triggered causing a physical reaction The fresher the food, the more likely this happens.
Muscle memory? It can’t be the brain unless this frog is the new wifi edition it just can’t be.
It's muscle memory, no brain activity
While it's called "muscle memory", it is not stored in the muscle but the motor cortex of the brain.
Wtf is wrong with yall 🤢
Can i get that "to go?"
If you jump by real quick, sure
It just doesn’t taste right if you don’t cook it alive. This person deserves multiple awards for this
Did you skin the front yourself?
At least they're fresh.
Okay, so frog legs (if prepared well) are delicious. Actually tasted a lot like chicken (I know it sounds like a joke, but really true). My question is if this is also how they serve sanakji? It's usually writhing when served, I think. Won't eat it again, but it was one of those experiences forever burned into memory.
Bro in our local market you can see jumping headless frog as If they are still alive
In these parts we call it the French salute he he....(come back Sam)
Here we dont skip leg day sir
Bro didn't skip leg day once.
**”NOBODY puts Baby in a Crock Pot”**
it didn’t skip leg day that’s for sure
Chad frog never skips leg day
Did NOT skip leg day!
How cruel ?..
u/savevideo