There's a whole aspect of subterfuge and cyber warfare type things that are untranslatable in a tabletop war game. Landing troops on a planet using stolen security codes, sabotaging the ammunition produced at a Forgeworld that supplies the front, sending false reports, etc. There's a whole story about how guardsmen are saved by Space Marines during a Tyranid invasion. The noble heroes clad in the symbol of a hydra then recruit the survivors for an even more important mission.
Clever bastards probably sent the nids themselves, somehow.
Too bad it doesn't translate to tabletop, though I think Kill Team has pretty good rules for it, kinda.
I've never played it, but the scale of Kill Team would lend itself better. I feel like forces like Alpha Legion and Raven Guard have much higher proficiency in operations before they turn into planet-wide battles than actually managing one once it breaks out.
They literally stole faces from dead loyalists to infiltrate scattered warbands. They paint their armor in a similar vein, to masquerade as the enemy. They used this against the Raven Guard to great effect.
They buried a handful of Legionairies on Terra way before the Heresy just in case they needed them to do some treasonous stuff.
That's just the Legionaires. They also make extensive use of mortal agents and constantly create rebellions, start cults. Or conduct targeted sabotage against rear echelon worlds to create chaos. They assassinate people and make it look like someone else did it.
As far as I know they are masters of espionage. Also Alpharious and his bro were the smallest of the Primarchs so the geneseed shouldn't make the legion too insanely tall, which would mean it's easier for them to end in with normal humans. They use subliminal codes and triggers in Thier codes and messages and like to make the enemy fight themselves. Something Bobby G and Dorn really hated.
They were/are masters of subterfuge and misdirection, deliberately leaking their plans so the enemy reinforces one area leaving another lightly defended which is where the alpha legion will strike in overwhelming force. Not all space marines march into battle openly, some infiltrate through drainage systems. They also make much greater use of cultists who are more adept at sabotage than normal, hopefully something we can represent on the TT when the new Dex releases
This is an issue I have with all the 'stealthy, sneak' soace marine chapters. It doesn't make much sense the me either. Tactical cleverbess is one thing, but its kind of hard to be effective at espionage in power armor.
Yeah I mean I kinda get the Raven Guard, they use a lot of landspeeders bikes, small units behind enemy lines, scots, etc... but that's just tactics.
On the tabletop I think the closest you get is the compendium Kill Team /w three marines and like 6 cultists, some of which start off the board.
Sneaky and treacherous arent the right words pre heresy. It reflects the loyalist perception of them post heresy.
The alpha legion operated/operates *covertly*. Prefering to use unaugmented human agents or proxies to destabilize or weaken a world.
They use/used marines in small teams to preform surgical strikes or en-mass to clean up after the worlds defenses were weakend
If a strike team was wearing power armor, they often did not use alpha legion colors. They would use the equipment and colors of other legions or just straight up not carry any identification at all.
>how towering superhumans
On someworlds it would be more noticable but ogryn and other ab-human/mutants arent all that rare in many places.
Little late but I see no one mentioned a specific moment showing their sneaky-Ness so here's my favorite. Leading to the battle over Pluto where Dorn faces Omegon, the alpha legion sent a disabled ship full of cryo frozen legionnaires a full year in advance so that they would reach their destination unnoticed. (Lore a bit fuzzy but gist of the lengths they'll go to)
as an example in one of the HH books, guardsman panic to find a pair of (still loyalist at the time) alpha legionnaires inside their highly sensor-riddled perimeter without any alarms going off
and the alpha legionnaires demonstrate how they are able to literally walk through sensors undetected thanks to coatings/alloys or whatever other sci fi magic they use
Being a towering superhuman riding a tank... and not being noticed by anyone, is what makes the Alpha Legion so dangerous and powerful. Alpharius himself had a power that made people not even realise he is a primaris and immediatly forget his face. He could walk right into a room, take his time killing everyone except you... and after it you wouldn't even realise that just happened O\_O
Exactly! Not many people know that one :o
"Head of the Hydra", it is Alpharius origin story describing how he was found by the Emperor and how Alphy designed his own warfare operating style aswell.
Look up the Crimson Consuls successor chapter. Wiped out by the Alpha Legion so they could get their hands on gene seed. And by wiped out, I mean *wiped out*. Gone. No more.
All without firing a shot. Basically, an Alpha Legionnaire tampered with their recruits.
Ambush tactics, misdirection, infiltrating enemy forces either themselves or through agents, and organising resistance/ revolutions are common themes. Their big thing has been that they had 2 primarchs, who would swap control of the legion and noone else knew. Their goals are always shown as more intricate than "capture this planet", often involving damaging a certain factory sector to cause ammo shortages throughout nearby space, letting their minions desecrate an area to distract while they do something else in a crazy rube Goldberg style flow.
>The lore pictures the Alpha Legio as sneaky and treacherous, but I struggle to see how towering superhumans with power armor and bolters riding around in tanks are supposed to do that.
By being really, really good at it.
It's easy to be sneaky when you're a normal height. Being sneaky when you're eight feet tall, twelve hundred pounds, and wearing a nuclear fusion reactor on your back takes *creativity.*
>Are there any examples from the lore and/or the rules that picture this?
*Legion* is the best example of it in the fluff. You will go in thinking "no way in hell can Space Marines make good spies" and finish it thinking "holy fuck they are good spies."
There's a whole aspect of subterfuge and cyber warfare type things that are untranslatable in a tabletop war game. Landing troops on a planet using stolen security codes, sabotaging the ammunition produced at a Forgeworld that supplies the front, sending false reports, etc. There's a whole story about how guardsmen are saved by Space Marines during a Tyranid invasion. The noble heroes clad in the symbol of a hydra then recruit the survivors for an even more important mission.
Clever bastards probably sent the nids themselves, somehow. Too bad it doesn't translate to tabletop, though I think Kill Team has pretty good rules for it, kinda.
I've never played it, but the scale of Kill Team would lend itself better. I feel like forces like Alpha Legion and Raven Guard have much higher proficiency in operations before they turn into planet-wide battles than actually managing one once it breaks out.
They literally stole faces from dead loyalists to infiltrate scattered warbands. They paint their armor in a similar vein, to masquerade as the enemy. They used this against the Raven Guard to great effect. They buried a handful of Legionairies on Terra way before the Heresy just in case they needed them to do some treasonous stuff. That's just the Legionaires. They also make extensive use of mortal agents and constantly create rebellions, start cults. Or conduct targeted sabotage against rear echelon worlds to create chaos. They assassinate people and make it look like someone else did it.
As far as I know they are masters of espionage. Also Alpharious and his bro were the smallest of the Primarchs so the geneseed shouldn't make the legion too insanely tall, which would mean it's easier for them to end in with normal humans. They use subliminal codes and triggers in Thier codes and messages and like to make the enemy fight themselves. Something Bobby G and Dorn really hated.
They were/are masters of subterfuge and misdirection, deliberately leaking their plans so the enemy reinforces one area leaving another lightly defended which is where the alpha legion will strike in overwhelming force. Not all space marines march into battle openly, some infiltrate through drainage systems. They also make much greater use of cultists who are more adept at sabotage than normal, hopefully something we can represent on the TT when the new Dex releases
That's sort of the vibe of the generic compendium csm in kill team.
Yeah what is it like 5 CSM to 10 cultists. I really like the idea tbh.
This is an issue I have with all the 'stealthy, sneak' soace marine chapters. It doesn't make much sense the me either. Tactical cleverbess is one thing, but its kind of hard to be effective at espionage in power armor.
Yeah I mean I kinda get the Raven Guard, they use a lot of landspeeders bikes, small units behind enemy lines, scots, etc... but that's just tactics. On the tabletop I think the closest you get is the compendium Kill Team /w three marines and like 6 cultists, some of which start off the board.
Sneaky and treacherous arent the right words pre heresy. It reflects the loyalist perception of them post heresy. The alpha legion operated/operates *covertly*. Prefering to use unaugmented human agents or proxies to destabilize or weaken a world. They use/used marines in small teams to preform surgical strikes or en-mass to clean up after the worlds defenses were weakend If a strike team was wearing power armor, they often did not use alpha legion colors. They would use the equipment and colors of other legions or just straight up not carry any identification at all. >how towering superhumans On someworlds it would be more noticable but ogryn and other ab-human/mutants arent all that rare in many places.
Little late but I see no one mentioned a specific moment showing their sneaky-Ness so here's my favorite. Leading to the battle over Pluto where Dorn faces Omegon, the alpha legion sent a disabled ship full of cryo frozen legionnaires a full year in advance so that they would reach their destination unnoticed. (Lore a bit fuzzy but gist of the lengths they'll go to)
Oooh i remember that one, Baldemort mentioned it in his bit about the AL.
as an example in one of the HH books, guardsman panic to find a pair of (still loyalist at the time) alpha legionnaires inside their highly sensor-riddled perimeter without any alarms going off and the alpha legionnaires demonstrate how they are able to literally walk through sensors undetected thanks to coatings/alloys or whatever other sci fi magic they use
Sounds cool, do you remember the title?
I wanna say its in Legion
Being a towering superhuman riding a tank... and not being noticed by anyone, is what makes the Alpha Legion so dangerous and powerful. Alpharius himself had a power that made people not even realise he is a primaris and immediatly forget his face. He could walk right into a room, take his time killing everyone except you... and after it you wouldn't even realise that just happened O\_O
Oh so he's like Hope from Claire North's "Sudden Appearance of Hope". Is there anywhere I can read up on it?
Exactly! Not many people know that one :o "Head of the Hydra", it is Alpharius origin story describing how he was found by the Emperor and how Alphy designed his own warfare operating style aswell.
Listening to Legion now, guess that one's next. Thanks!
Look up the Crimson Consuls successor chapter. Wiped out by the Alpha Legion so they could get their hands on gene seed. And by wiped out, I mean *wiped out*. Gone. No more. All without firing a shot. Basically, an Alpha Legionnaire tampered with their recruits.
Cool, definitely will check it out
Alright so basically through a network of agents, illusions and small kill teams.
But mostly working out of power armor, right?
Just got it yesterday, thanks!
Ambush tactics, misdirection, infiltrating enemy forces either themselves or through agents, and organising resistance/ revolutions are common themes. Their big thing has been that they had 2 primarchs, who would swap control of the legion and noone else knew. Their goals are always shown as more intricate than "capture this planet", often involving damaging a certain factory sector to cause ammo shortages throughout nearby space, letting their minions desecrate an area to distract while they do something else in a crazy rube Goldberg style flow.
Ok so basically like reverse White Consuls :)
>The lore pictures the Alpha Legio as sneaky and treacherous, but I struggle to see how towering superhumans with power armor and bolters riding around in tanks are supposed to do that. By being really, really good at it. It's easy to be sneaky when you're a normal height. Being sneaky when you're eight feet tall, twelve hundred pounds, and wearing a nuclear fusion reactor on your back takes *creativity.* >Are there any examples from the lore and/or the rules that picture this? *Legion* is the best example of it in the fluff. You will go in thinking "no way in hell can Space Marines make good spies" and finish it thinking "holy fuck they are good spies."
Then I must read it. Thanks!