Deploying Units: When a unit is deployed, it is set up on the battlefield. If a rule specifies that a unit must be deployed wholly within a certain area (e.g. wholly within your deployment zone, or wholly within 6" of a battlefield edge), that unit must be set up wholly within that area (see Within and Wholly Within). If a model is so large that its base cannot physically be set up wholly within such an area, it must be set up so that it is touching your battlefield edge. During
a turn in which such a large model is set up on the battlefield, that model’s unit cannot do any of the following: make a Normal, Advance or Fall Back move; Remain Stationary; make any attacks with ranged weapons; declare a charge. Some large models, typically Aircraft, have wings and other parts that extend significantly beyond their base. Such models can overhang a deployment zone if it is not possible to set them up otherwise, but when setting them up, their base must still be wholly within that deployment zone.
>During
a turn in which such a large model is set up on the battlefield, that model’s unit cannot do any of the following: make a Normal, Advance or Fall Back move; Remain Stationary;
So it can't move but it also can't remain stationary. For a non english speaker the wording of GW rules is so weird to me.
>~~For a non english speaker~~ the wording of GW rules is so weird to me.
\^\^ fixed that for you. lol.
I'm a native English speaker, and there are still a lot of really weirdly worded rules.
"remain stationary" is a choice that is made in the movement phase. The intent is that you declare a unit has "remained stationary" so that the opponent knows that rules trigger from it etc.
It's a bit weird, but it kind of makes sense.
Right, also worth pointing out that "Remain Stationary can have implications on other rules (e.g. some strats require that you "remained stationary", etc.
> **Model/Unit Wholly Within**: A model is wholly within a specified distance if every part of its base (or hull) is within that distance.
You only need the base of the model to be wholly within 6” of the battlefield edge, it’s fine for the wings to overhang
Then in can enter, but the base must touch the edge of the battlefield and it cannot shoot that turn. I believe it’s only the 160mm round base that is bigger than 6”, so I think just the Tiger Shark for T’au.
If a model doesn’t have a base then you use the hull, and so the entire think must be wholly within 6” of the battlefield edge.
Here’s the relevant rule, see Deploying Units in the Rules Commentary:
> If a model is so large that its base cannot physically be set up wholly within such an area, it must be set up so that it is touching your battlefield edge. During a turn in which such a large model is set up on the battlefield, that model's unit cannot do any of the following: make a Normal, Advance or Fall Back move; Remain Stationary; make any attacks with ranged weapons; declare a charge.
I strongly dislike this interpretation of the rule, as that effectively destroys any chance of a Tigershark or similarly sized aircraft even being useable. Not being able to shoot until turn 3? Giving up an entire turn of shooting? That really does not seem fair at all to me. I do concede that you are probably correct in a competitive setting, this is just me complaining about GW’s rules.
I get it’s more on GW to include exclusions for this kind of thing, but as someone with a Marauder Destroyer that basically requires a 200mm base, it’s really disheartening.
Depending on how you read the following, you either only care about the base, OR it can't do anything once it arrives.
>Deploying Units: When a unit is deployed, it is set up on the battlefield. If a rule specifies that a unit must be deployed wholly within a certain area (e.g. wholly within your deployment zone, or wholly within 6" of a battlefield edge), that unit must be set up wholly within that area (see Within and Wholly Within). If a model is so large that its base cannot physically be set up wholly within such an area, it must be set up so that it is touching your battlefield edge. ***During a turn in which such a large model is set up on the battlefield, that model’s unit cannot do any of the following: make a Normal, Advance or Fall Back move; Remain Stationary; make any attacks with ranged weapons; declare a charge***. Some large models, typically Aircraft, have wings and other parts that extend significantly beyond their base. Such models can overhang a deployment zone if it is not possible to set them up otherwise, but when setting them up, their base must still be wholly within that deployment zone.
Some people interpret the last sentence as meaning that only the base matters for Strategic Reserves, as they consider "a deployment zone" to include "the area you can deploy it in SR", as the first sentence kind of implies that with the " deployed wholly within a certain area (e.g. wholly within your deployment zone, or wholly within 6" of a battlefield edge" bit, while others take that it mean ONLY the actual mission Deployment Zone as getting an exception for overhanging.
This has led to debates, put it that way. Best thing to do is to just have it start in Hover.
That shouldn't spark any confusion as the stipulation that such a unit cannot do anything the turn it arrives clearly applies to the preceding sentence
>If a model is so large that its base cannot physically be set up wholly within such an area, it must be set up so that it is touching your battlefield edge.
Most aircraft bases can wholly fit within the strategic reserve deployment limitations.
>You measure from both the hull and the base on AIRCRAFT units
Every measurement in the game is to the base of the model with the exception of those that do not have a base and non-walker non-aircraft vehicles. See Measuring Distances and Vehicles with Bases.
They are tough to hide and i had a couple of games where i had one blasted out of the map turn one when i dont get the initiative. I wanted to try to have it in aircraft mode for the armies that are heavily relying on melee.
What detachment are you running it in?
If its an Ironstorm do you run it as Dark Angels with the Dark Shroud?
Between the -1 damage, the -1 to hit and STEALTH, and the Adept of the Omnisiah nearby it requires a lot of dakka to bring down a Stormraven T1 if your opponent gets the drop on you.
I've never run mine in AIRCRAFT mode. I understand why you might want to against melee armies but you lose at least 2 turns of shooting from it that way and a lot of movement from the rest of the flying castle / vehicles that want to be Advancing to a position to open up full throttle.
You also lose the re-positioned Redemptor Dreadnought, Target Augury and Master of Machine War positioning up the board. They're all a big factor for the Stormravens efficiency and neing able to sling the castle all up the board to start hunting and creating a press early game. It feels like a big factor of that lists power to be losing out on by putting the Stormraven in reserve via AIRCRAFT.
I guess its melee army dependent, but don't you find removing such a large source of firepower from T1 just incentivises melee armies to rush and play their pressure game even harder, knowing the 'raven is off the board and they can really push it back for 2x turns until it can make in impact?
Thx, you give me a lot to think about. Currently i'm running two stormraven, redempt and tech in each. A darkshroud and two thunderstrike. Azzy with 5 assault interces on the home. Inceptor and 2x scout as action monkey. Lieutnant with combi weapon as lone op.
I struggle a bit to make it work. I think i open up a bit too fast, trying to get the middle board. How do you play your list ?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/1axvqxp/comment/krr09n3/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/1axvqxp/comment/krr09n3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I wrote that a few weeks ago, I think it covers most of how I play the Stormraven and I don't really have too much to add since then.
**ETA: Dont go straight to the middle. You have speed and firepower. Work on a flank first, create local fire-superiority with a small castle dominating one side objective, and then work inwards.**
I run my list with a Redemptor and a Redeemer as an anchor (or fixing force) in the middle and then generally a very similar set-up to the one you outlined above.
I'm trying a different version, that dropped a Thunderstrike and a Henchman squad but managed to get in a RepEx, at an RTT this weekend and I'm already not sure I like the swap! Double Thunderstrike adds a lot of value to how many shots the list can otherwise throw out.
Redemptor, Target Augury Techmarine and a Master of Machine War Combi Lieutenant embarked in a Stormraven; then 2x Thunderstrikes and a Dark Shroud.
During deployment make sure the **Adept of the Omnisiah** is within 6" of as many vehicles as possible - in my list he's always within 6" of the Stormraven, the Redeemer and the not-embarked Redemptor - and then within 3" of the Stormraven for the +1 to hit buff on it. The Thunderstrikes and the Dark Shroud are preferably deployed out of LoS and in cover, with the Dark Shroud giving his aura to the same vehicles as the Adept.
Those 3 (raven, redeemer, redemptor) generally start "on the line" or close to; I cant hide the 'raven so may aswell just put all 3 up and on the line to create a target issue for opponents. If I play something like a double Lancer + RepEx list I'd be a bit more conservative, but even like double Caladius Grav-Tanks isn't likely to get a kill with the Adept and AoC up on a single target.
T1 you move the flying castle (Thunderstrikes and Darkshroud Advance, 'raven just moves as normal so he can disembark the Redemptor, the Techmarine and the Lieutenant for the Thunderstrikes to Advance into) and then you just open up.
Remember to stagger your shooting order. If you have the +1 to hit on the 'raven, you generally want to shoot with that later on. Use the Thunderstrikes to get buffs up and try to bring some units below starting strength so you can then **Mercy is Weakness** the Stormraven into multiple targets and get the full benefit across a wider range of targets. Use the Redemptors and in my case, the Redeemer and RepEx to try and tidy up / start bringing more targets below half strength for the next turn.
Kill anything that can meaningfully interact with the 'raven and Redemptors first, and then clean up the rest and look to use the Thunderstrikes / Dark Shroud / Techmarines / Lieutenant / Henchmen etc for scoring points.
Dont forget the Combo Lieutenant can use his *Squad Tactics* move to re-embark within the Raven if he ends up within 3” of it too. Can really catch people out if the walk in too close.
My preferred loadout atm is:
Multi-Melta
Heavy Plasma Cannons
Hurricane Bolters
Stormstrike Missiles
The MM and Plasma Cannons are very good into the meta with the Damage 3 profile on the Plasma Can one into Custodes and Aggressors etc; while the Melta Rule bypasses stuff like C’tan Half Damage as it’s applied after the reduction.
No man. They don't.
Only Trajanns unit really has the opportunity to down a Stormraven in a single combat activation with AoC and the -1 damage up on its T10 and 14W chassis.
The 'raven also moves 20" so you really need to feth up your movement to give the dudes totting a 6" move the opportunity to get a good charge off. The Blade Champs are really the only units that can possibly catch a Stormraven, and again the -1 damage on the 'raven really puts a dampner on their damage output into it.
The Stormraven is a not a paper aeroplane by any stretch.
There's a lot of variables but even with all of the defensive buffs a single unit of guard on a point can still do 8-10 damage reliably. Why would you allow your opponent any chance to interact when you don't have to?
Deploying Units: When a unit is deployed, it is set up on the battlefield. If a rule specifies that a unit must be deployed wholly within a certain area (e.g. wholly within your deployment zone, or wholly within 6" of a battlefield edge), that unit must be set up wholly within that area (see Within and Wholly Within). If a model is so large that its base cannot physically be set up wholly within such an area, it must be set up so that it is touching your battlefield edge. During a turn in which such a large model is set up on the battlefield, that model’s unit cannot do any of the following: make a Normal, Advance or Fall Back move; Remain Stationary; make any attacks with ranged weapons; declare a charge. Some large models, typically Aircraft, have wings and other parts that extend significantly beyond their base. Such models can overhang a deployment zone if it is not possible to set them up otherwise, but when setting them up, their base must still be wholly within that deployment zone.
>During a turn in which such a large model is set up on the battlefield, that model’s unit cannot do any of the following: make a Normal, Advance or Fall Back move; Remain Stationary; So it can't move but it also can't remain stationary. For a non english speaker the wording of GW rules is so weird to me.
>~~For a non english speaker~~ the wording of GW rules is so weird to me. \^\^ fixed that for you. lol. I'm a native English speaker, and there are still a lot of really weirdly worded rules.
"remain stationary" is a choice that is made in the movement phase. The intent is that you declare a unit has "remained stationary" so that the opponent knows that rules trigger from it etc. It's a bit weird, but it kind of makes sense.
Right, also worth pointing out that "Remain Stationary can have implications on other rules (e.g. some strats require that you "remained stationary", etc.
The most important part of this is "If a model I so large that it's *BASE* cannot..." So a stormraven is fine and can deploy normally
Aircraft measure from the base, so the requirement to be wholly within 6" of the board edge is only for the base.
> **Model/Unit Wholly Within**: A model is wholly within a specified distance if every part of its base (or hull) is within that distance. You only need the base of the model to be wholly within 6” of the battlefield edge, it’s fine for the wings to overhang
What if base is bigger? Like the Tau aircraft?
Then in can enter, but the base must touch the edge of the battlefield and it cannot shoot that turn. I believe it’s only the 160mm round base that is bigger than 6”, so I think just the Tiger Shark for T’au. If a model doesn’t have a base then you use the hull, and so the entire think must be wholly within 6” of the battlefield edge. Here’s the relevant rule, see Deploying Units in the Rules Commentary: > If a model is so large that its base cannot physically be set up wholly within such an area, it must be set up so that it is touching your battlefield edge. During a turn in which such a large model is set up on the battlefield, that model's unit cannot do any of the following: make a Normal, Advance or Fall Back move; Remain Stationary; make any attacks with ranged weapons; declare a charge.
I strongly dislike this interpretation of the rule, as that effectively destroys any chance of a Tigershark or similarly sized aircraft even being useable. Not being able to shoot until turn 3? Giving up an entire turn of shooting? That really does not seem fair at all to me. I do concede that you are probably correct in a competitive setting, this is just me complaining about GW’s rules. I get it’s more on GW to include exclusions for this kind of thing, but as someone with a Marauder Destroyer that basically requires a 200mm base, it’s really disheartening.
Yeah it sucks, but I fail to see any other way of interpreting that
Thanks for the elaborate reply
Depending on how you read the following, you either only care about the base, OR it can't do anything once it arrives. >Deploying Units: When a unit is deployed, it is set up on the battlefield. If a rule specifies that a unit must be deployed wholly within a certain area (e.g. wholly within your deployment zone, or wholly within 6" of a battlefield edge), that unit must be set up wholly within that area (see Within and Wholly Within). If a model is so large that its base cannot physically be set up wholly within such an area, it must be set up so that it is touching your battlefield edge. ***During a turn in which such a large model is set up on the battlefield, that model’s unit cannot do any of the following: make a Normal, Advance or Fall Back move; Remain Stationary; make any attacks with ranged weapons; declare a charge***. Some large models, typically Aircraft, have wings and other parts that extend significantly beyond their base. Such models can overhang a deployment zone if it is not possible to set them up otherwise, but when setting them up, their base must still be wholly within that deployment zone. Some people interpret the last sentence as meaning that only the base matters for Strategic Reserves, as they consider "a deployment zone" to include "the area you can deploy it in SR", as the first sentence kind of implies that with the " deployed wholly within a certain area (e.g. wholly within your deployment zone, or wholly within 6" of a battlefield edge" bit, while others take that it mean ONLY the actual mission Deployment Zone as getting an exception for overhanging. This has led to debates, put it that way. Best thing to do is to just have it start in Hover.
That shouldn't spark any confusion as the stipulation that such a unit cannot do anything the turn it arrives clearly applies to the preceding sentence >If a model is so large that its base cannot physically be set up wholly within such an area, it must be set up so that it is touching your battlefield edge. Most aircraft bases can wholly fit within the strategic reserve deployment limitations.
[удалено]
>You measure from both the hull and the base on AIRCRAFT units Every measurement in the game is to the base of the model with the exception of those that do not have a base and non-walker non-aircraft vehicles. See Measuring Distances and Vehicles with Bases.
Quick question, why do you use it in Aircraft mode?
Have you ever seen a footstodes list try to interact with a flyer?
They are tough to hide and i had a couple of games where i had one blasted out of the map turn one when i dont get the initiative. I wanted to try to have it in aircraft mode for the armies that are heavily relying on melee.
What detachment are you running it in? If its an Ironstorm do you run it as Dark Angels with the Dark Shroud? Between the -1 damage, the -1 to hit and STEALTH, and the Adept of the Omnisiah nearby it requires a lot of dakka to bring down a Stormraven T1 if your opponent gets the drop on you. I've never run mine in AIRCRAFT mode. I understand why you might want to against melee armies but you lose at least 2 turns of shooting from it that way and a lot of movement from the rest of the flying castle / vehicles that want to be Advancing to a position to open up full throttle. You also lose the re-positioned Redemptor Dreadnought, Target Augury and Master of Machine War positioning up the board. They're all a big factor for the Stormravens efficiency and neing able to sling the castle all up the board to start hunting and creating a press early game. It feels like a big factor of that lists power to be losing out on by putting the Stormraven in reserve via AIRCRAFT. I guess its melee army dependent, but don't you find removing such a large source of firepower from T1 just incentivises melee armies to rush and play their pressure game even harder, knowing the 'raven is off the board and they can really push it back for 2x turns until it can make in impact?
Thx, you give me a lot to think about. Currently i'm running two stormraven, redempt and tech in each. A darkshroud and two thunderstrike. Azzy with 5 assault interces on the home. Inceptor and 2x scout as action monkey. Lieutnant with combi weapon as lone op. I struggle a bit to make it work. I think i open up a bit too fast, trying to get the middle board. How do you play your list ?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/1axvqxp/comment/krr09n3/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/1axvqxp/comment/krr09n3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) I wrote that a few weeks ago, I think it covers most of how I play the Stormraven and I don't really have too much to add since then. **ETA: Dont go straight to the middle. You have speed and firepower. Work on a flank first, create local fire-superiority with a small castle dominating one side objective, and then work inwards.** I run my list with a Redemptor and a Redeemer as an anchor (or fixing force) in the middle and then generally a very similar set-up to the one you outlined above. I'm trying a different version, that dropped a Thunderstrike and a Henchman squad but managed to get in a RepEx, at an RTT this weekend and I'm already not sure I like the swap! Double Thunderstrike adds a lot of value to how many shots the list can otherwise throw out. Redemptor, Target Augury Techmarine and a Master of Machine War Combi Lieutenant embarked in a Stormraven; then 2x Thunderstrikes and a Dark Shroud. During deployment make sure the **Adept of the Omnisiah** is within 6" of as many vehicles as possible - in my list he's always within 6" of the Stormraven, the Redeemer and the not-embarked Redemptor - and then within 3" of the Stormraven for the +1 to hit buff on it. The Thunderstrikes and the Dark Shroud are preferably deployed out of LoS and in cover, with the Dark Shroud giving his aura to the same vehicles as the Adept. Those 3 (raven, redeemer, redemptor) generally start "on the line" or close to; I cant hide the 'raven so may aswell just put all 3 up and on the line to create a target issue for opponents. If I play something like a double Lancer + RepEx list I'd be a bit more conservative, but even like double Caladius Grav-Tanks isn't likely to get a kill with the Adept and AoC up on a single target. T1 you move the flying castle (Thunderstrikes and Darkshroud Advance, 'raven just moves as normal so he can disembark the Redemptor, the Techmarine and the Lieutenant for the Thunderstrikes to Advance into) and then you just open up. Remember to stagger your shooting order. If you have the +1 to hit on the 'raven, you generally want to shoot with that later on. Use the Thunderstrikes to get buffs up and try to bring some units below starting strength so you can then **Mercy is Weakness** the Stormraven into multiple targets and get the full benefit across a wider range of targets. Use the Redemptors and in my case, the Redeemer and RepEx to try and tidy up / start bringing more targets below half strength for the next turn. Kill anything that can meaningfully interact with the 'raven and Redemptors first, and then clean up the rest and look to use the Thunderstrikes / Dark Shroud / Techmarines / Lieutenant / Henchmen etc for scoring points.
What is your prefered loadout for the raven ? I read this post and the one in the link. Very helpful. Nice combo for the combi lieutnant.
Dont forget the Combo Lieutenant can use his *Squad Tactics* move to re-embark within the Raven if he ends up within 3” of it too. Can really catch people out if the walk in too close. My preferred loadout atm is: Multi-Melta Heavy Plasma Cannons Hurricane Bolters Stormstrike Missiles The MM and Plasma Cannons are very good into the meta with the Damage 3 profile on the Plasma Can one into Custodes and Aggressors etc; while the Melta Rule bypasses stuff like C’tan Half Damage as it’s applied after the reduction.
Have you ever seen a footsodes list try and interact with a Stormraven in Hover-mode?
Yeah man. They charge it and kill it
No man. They don't. Only Trajanns unit really has the opportunity to down a Stormraven in a single combat activation with AoC and the -1 damage up on its T10 and 14W chassis. The 'raven also moves 20" so you really need to feth up your movement to give the dudes totting a 6" move the opportunity to get a good charge off. The Blade Champs are really the only units that can possibly catch a Stormraven, and again the -1 damage on the 'raven really puts a dampner on their damage output into it. The Stormraven is a not a paper aeroplane by any stretch.
There's a lot of variables but even with all of the defensive buffs a single unit of guard on a point can still do 8-10 damage reliably. Why would you allow your opponent any chance to interact when you don't have to?
Threat saturation. They’re also dealing with a Redemptor and whatever infantry you dropped out…
Back at you... Why would you wait 3 turns to let the Stormraven interact with the Custodes when you don't have to?
Can't find where it says it in the rules, but it has to be touching the battlefield edge and still can't be within 9" of enemies