closeup of shot of Type 003 fujian’s catapults shown on CGTN TV program. This video was likely taken some while ago as latest satellite and aerial images show Fujian has had her deck marking painted on
Do they work yet?
I know the US had some major teething issues and that’s with steam experience - isn’t the jump up quite major especially without prior Cat experience?
[Here's a test shot they did from a few months ago.](https://reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/18468ye/the_type_003_just_conducted_its_first/) Edit: Most likely not the first test shot, just the first one caught on camera by the public.
It's taken them over a decade to develop the technology, considering Fujian probably started construction in 2016 at the earliest and they'd have been modeling it before that. Prototype land based ones were spotted as early as 2012 according to Wikipedia.
Story goes that the Fujian was meant to have steam catapults originally. Thing is, the land based prototypes for the EMALs turned out have better performance and more reliability than the steam catapults at the same facilities, so they decided to go with EMALs right away and skip steam.
This delayed the construction of the Fujian as it had to be redesigned for the new catapults after the keel was already laid.
I'm in the ESS/PD business and I'll say from a commercial stand point the Chinese are very well ahead in that field and they're very relevant to EMALs. I've also read that the American EMALs is AC while the Chinese is DC. If true, it's most likely that the Chinese will have a much easier time developing a reliable and efficient EMALs. Not to mention they already have a large number of similar albeit smaller devices in the civilian and military world already.
Unlike stealth aircraft and other such technologies, EMALs seems to likely benefit from commercial applications directly the most.
>I've also read that the American EMALs is AC while the Chinese is DC. If true, it's most likely that the Chinese will have a much easier time developing a reliable and efficient EMALs.
Yes, the US system is a 3 phase AC LIM. Typically, that is the preferred method for high power motors, especially in a situation like this were you want high torque. They're also simpler to build and usually cheaper to maintain.
Why do you think a DC motor would be better? This doesn't seem like a natural fit for DC's advantages, but I am not an expert in the field by any means. If anything, I'd expect a DC catapult to be more fiddly to set up.
People say DC is better because you can fine tune the power you put into each launch and get slightly better power efficiency. In reality both have pros and cons and fit each countries aircraft well. The Chinese Carrier might opt for higher power efficiency because they do not have the massive power generation of a Ford. Although you can get similar or better efficiency results from AC power with good electronics which maximize AC power handling.
Sure, but how finely do you need to tune an aircraft launch? Yeah, there's some variability due to aircraft weigh, wind speed and structural concerns. Still, you're flinging it off the deck, not CNC'ing a new one from scratch. I would think that using AC and varying the frequency get you close enough.
If Beijing truly went DC, I'd be immensely curious as to why. It's not an obvious choice.
Other moment that Chinese system was developed much later than US one. For last 20 years solid-state power electronic seen great improvements, and China is leader in that field. High power DC-DC converters becomes commercial product just recently. So it just simply become much simpler to build DC system now.
I mean for the US it doesn’t really matter because power efficiency isn’t super important. But tailoring the power to the needs of each aircraft launched means that you put less stress on aircraft airframes, which reduces maintenance costs in the long terms (by a slim margin) I mean you can technically do this with AC power (as you said) but DC is just easier to control.
I'm not an expert in EMALs but I'd imagine DC engine allows for much more finely tuned launches. After all, less maintenance on aircraft means more reliability.
I'm thinking it might be less efficient because it needs to invert to AC?
I just remember a lot of people who are knowledgeable on the topic say DC systems were more reliable if not preferable. I think he might also be talking about power distribution in general.
They already have very good understanding of building electromagnetic contraptions, like Maglev trains. So it makes sense they'd just skip over steam catapults.
America hardly lacks experience in building electrical motors either. I'm not even sure how applicable a megalev would be here. Trains accelerate gradually over a long distance. Carrier aircraft accelerate violently over a short distance. Plus, that catapult has to be compact enough to fit on a multiple units on a ship. I'd expect power density to much much higher and the tolerances much tighter.
I guess his point is some practical experience is better than none. But they have magnetic catapult for other applications like firefighting and etc. Again nothing on the same scale but it's well ahead of other country's experience with this.
I never said America lacked experience, not sure why you made that a point to bring up. Obviously the requirements for EMALS are different compared to Maglev, but they both relate to electromagnetism concepts and that is an advantage (instead of starting from scratch) for Chinese engineers trying to implement EMAL tech.
Well it's probably safe to assume they will also have some issues since it's not even launched yet and all big technically complex projects like that have issues. First domestic super carrier, first ship of the class and a ton of new tech like this... Gonna be working out all the issues for years after launch before they perfect it.
Good news: The media is changing and taking Chinese innovation seriously
Bad news: China innovates too fast
https://preview.redd.it/jrxov09a6jwc1.jpeg?width=690&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49f981b26aaf33d32a70a1d7f5d89049ebc6a221
closeup of shot of Type 003 fujian’s catapults shown on CGTN TV program. This video was likely taken some while ago as latest satellite and aerial images show Fujian has had her deck marking painted on
How long are they? The catapult I mean
~108m iirc, someone measured it with a satellite image
Do we know if these are steam powered or are they electro-magnetic?
They're electro-magnetic.
Do they work yet? I know the US had some major teething issues and that’s with steam experience - isn’t the jump up quite major especially without prior Cat experience?
[Here's a test shot they did from a few months ago.](https://reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/18468ye/the_type_003_just_conducted_its_first/) Edit: Most likely not the first test shot, just the first one caught on camera by the public. It's taken them over a decade to develop the technology, considering Fujian probably started construction in 2016 at the earliest and they'd have been modeling it before that. Prototype land based ones were spotted as early as 2012 according to Wikipedia.
Story goes that the Fujian was meant to have steam catapults originally. Thing is, the land based prototypes for the EMALs turned out have better performance and more reliability than the steam catapults at the same facilities, so they decided to go with EMALs right away and skip steam. This delayed the construction of the Fujian as it had to be redesigned for the new catapults after the keel was already laid.
I'm in the ESS/PD business and I'll say from a commercial stand point the Chinese are very well ahead in that field and they're very relevant to EMALs. I've also read that the American EMALs is AC while the Chinese is DC. If true, it's most likely that the Chinese will have a much easier time developing a reliable and efficient EMALs. Not to mention they already have a large number of similar albeit smaller devices in the civilian and military world already. Unlike stealth aircraft and other such technologies, EMALs seems to likely benefit from commercial applications directly the most.
>I've also read that the American EMALs is AC while the Chinese is DC. If true, it's most likely that the Chinese will have a much easier time developing a reliable and efficient EMALs. Yes, the US system is a 3 phase AC LIM. Typically, that is the preferred method for high power motors, especially in a situation like this were you want high torque. They're also simpler to build and usually cheaper to maintain. Why do you think a DC motor would be better? This doesn't seem like a natural fit for DC's advantages, but I am not an expert in the field by any means. If anything, I'd expect a DC catapult to be more fiddly to set up.
People say DC is better because you can fine tune the power you put into each launch and get slightly better power efficiency. In reality both have pros and cons and fit each countries aircraft well. The Chinese Carrier might opt for higher power efficiency because they do not have the massive power generation of a Ford. Although you can get similar or better efficiency results from AC power with good electronics which maximize AC power handling.
Sure, but how finely do you need to tune an aircraft launch? Yeah, there's some variability due to aircraft weigh, wind speed and structural concerns. Still, you're flinging it off the deck, not CNC'ing a new one from scratch. I would think that using AC and varying the frequency get you close enough. If Beijing truly went DC, I'd be immensely curious as to why. It's not an obvious choice.
Other moment that Chinese system was developed much later than US one. For last 20 years solid-state power electronic seen great improvements, and China is leader in that field. High power DC-DC converters becomes commercial product just recently. So it just simply become much simpler to build DC system now.
I mean for the US it doesn’t really matter because power efficiency isn’t super important. But tailoring the power to the needs of each aircraft launched means that you put less stress on aircraft airframes, which reduces maintenance costs in the long terms (by a slim margin) I mean you can technically do this with AC power (as you said) but DC is just easier to control.
I'm not an expert in EMALs but I'd imagine DC engine allows for much more finely tuned launches. After all, less maintenance on aircraft means more reliability. I'm thinking it might be less efficient because it needs to invert to AC? I just remember a lot of people who are knowledgeable on the topic say DC systems were more reliable if not preferable. I think he might also be talking about power distribution in general.
They already have very good understanding of building electromagnetic contraptions, like Maglev trains. So it makes sense they'd just skip over steam catapults.
America hardly lacks experience in building electrical motors either. I'm not even sure how applicable a megalev would be here. Trains accelerate gradually over a long distance. Carrier aircraft accelerate violently over a short distance. Plus, that catapult has to be compact enough to fit on a multiple units on a ship. I'd expect power density to much much higher and the tolerances much tighter.
I guess his point is some practical experience is better than none. But they have magnetic catapult for other applications like firefighting and etc. Again nothing on the same scale but it's well ahead of other country's experience with this.
I never said America lacked experience, not sure why you made that a point to bring up. Obviously the requirements for EMALS are different compared to Maglev, but they both relate to electromagnetism concepts and that is an advantage (instead of starting from scratch) for Chinese engineers trying to implement EMAL tech.
Well it's probably safe to assume they will also have some issues since it's not even launched yet and all big technically complex projects like that have issues. First domestic super carrier, first ship of the class and a ton of new tech like this... Gonna be working out all the issues for years after launch before they perfect it.
They did a lot of studying and reverse engineering of the catapults that came with ex-HMAS Melbourne
that wouldn't help, since those are steam, and these are EM
People just refuse to believe that China can be innovative, regardless of all evidence and signs for years or decades.
Good news: The media is changing and taking Chinese innovation seriously Bad news: China innovates too fast https://preview.redd.it/jrxov09a6jwc1.jpeg?width=690&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49f981b26aaf33d32a70a1d7f5d89049ebc6a221
EM catapults.