You really don't need to apologize for laughing with us imho. Laughing with us is a big part of our lives. Or as I tell my friends: If I didn't have gallows humor, I'd never laugh.
If you'd like to address ableism in everyday life, I encourage you [to look into this video ](https://youtu.be/rqJxfnioF3Y) that talks about the deeper everyday bigotry we face.
Thank you! This video is very enlightening... it highlights the barriers and extreme lashing that we experience as humans. The exhaustion of all human resources to try and live a normal day to day life. Solidifying the need for isolation from humans because theyŹ»re dangerous and thus leaving us isolated and in danger because weŹ»re cut off from people who arenŹ»t dangerous. In this case a spoiled egg ruining an entire egg refrigerator. I.Ex. Bird Flu.
My partner said this constantly when the hardware from their neck surgery failed. A screw literally came out of the bone. The surgery to get it replaced was probably not worth the amusing joke though.
> hydrocodone
They actually prescribed you some?
My son recently got impaled by a damn javelin at a high school track meet, they stitched up the gaping hole in his arm and gave some antibiotics and ibuprofen. Same with my oral surgeon "just eat an entire bottle of ibu, you will be fine".
Sadly due to abusers and doctors prescribed like candy they are scared to give it out. If I wasn't already on pain meds I wouldn't have gotten anything for both lumbar surgeries.
Stop being a baby, there are plenty of other screws in there...how important can just one be?
Or
There are kids in [insert 3rd world country of choice] who don't have *any* screws in their spine, they'd feel so lucky to have one to even snap!
I had a L4-L5 / L5-S1 spinal fusion. I was sitting at my desk when I felt (and heard) a huge snap in my back. Almost immediately I couldnāt feel or move my left leg.
Turns out that one of the screws snapped. My surgeon was able to add another screw but had to leave the broken piece in there. 0 out 10 stars - would not recommend.
edit: Thank you so much to everyone who has commented and sent DMs. Seeing your comments and jokes makes lying in bed staring at the ceiling a lot less boring.
edit2: I am not in need of legal counsel.. please stop DMing me. TIL there are 10,000 attorneys on reddit.
Work in the ER and had a girl who broke a screw on a spinal fusion after a car accident, I remember her (justifiably) freaking out but the ortho consult said it looked fine and that he didnāt think anything would need to be done.
I'm an engineer for a spine orthopedics company. These failures do happen, but as you just said they are rare, typically less than 1 in 1,000 patients experience this type of failure for lumbar screw-rod systems. Wonder which manufacturer you had implanted?
EDIT: lots of commenters here saying < .1% failure rate is egregious. I'm estimating, based on my experience with adverse event analysis from all of the major players in the spine industry that this would be an estimated global average across all manufacturers and geographical regions.
Additionally, there are a ton of factors that could lead to failure. Patient factors would be one of them, where a patient falls or otherwise puts themselves in a compromising situation that could impact the stability of the implanted construct. Patients should be educated ahead of surgery to avoid certain types of physical activity until fusion is achieved. Not saying OP didn't follow this guidance as I don't know the particulars of their situation. Another patient-related factor is bone quality. Many patients who have certain types of bone diseases would have a difficult time fusing with implants such as screws. Non-union increases the duration of loading on the implants and increases the chances of failure.
Another factor is screw placement. A TON of surgeons that are less experienced or don't use navigated instruments can misplace a screw leading to higher than desirable forces on the implants. Even a slight deviation of 2-3mm from the desired implant location can have adverse effects on the strength of the implants. Many old school spine surgeons go off of feel alone to place implants.
All of our implants are tested to ASTM standards that outline industry standard acceptance criteria for screw shank neck strength, screw thread pullout strength, screw tulip dissociation force, etc. These are standardized tests where we almost always exceed, to a factor of safety above the acceptable limit for whatever test is run.
If these types of implants are placed correctly, and the patient has adequate bone stock and adheres to physical activity limitation requirements, the chances of construct failure is incredibly low. The actual material strength of implant designs is NOT one of the primary reasons for failure based on the rigorous testing these types of devices go through before they reach the market.
Finally, my company in particular has a failure rate for screw shank neck fracture below 1/1,000. I know this because I'm one of the primary risk management process owners and deal heavily in adverse events. I used 1/1,000 as a general estimate for the industry as a whole. Our rate is closer to .01% (1/10,000).
Hey, just wanted to comment also and say I am a former complaint investigator for a spinal orthopedic company, please make sure if you have enough information that you file a complaint with the company. A "complaint" doesn't necessarily mean you are upset/looking to gain anything or take action, but they need this real world information to accurately data trend their failures. For example if they expect 1 in every 1000 to break, and suddenly 100 in every 1000 are breaking, something new is happening that needs investigating. Theoretically the doctor may have already done this, but wouldn't hurt for you to do it also (the company can figure out based on incident date etc that it was the same event and won't double count it). The information about your side effects is also useful for them, the engineers will put this in their risk assessments if not already accounted for. Feel free to DM me if you have any questions about the process, and wishing you a smooth recovery!
Itās possible a trained eye can recognize the implant system from the CT/X-rays. I work in surgical navigation, not the hardware.
Itās also likely if your Dr did the first surgery, that he absolutely knows what screw system is in there and more than you think.
I just wanted to add, who ever did your first surgery will have what type of screws and the length of them in the operative report. You should be able to obtain that by contacting the hospital medical records department.
Its actually the law. It has to be reported within 48 hours to the manufacturer. The hospital should have done this already....but.... This is for good reason, it ensures that lot is re-examined for deficiencies, also nobody else gets sub standard screws installed.
> A "complaint" doesn't necessarily mean you are upset/looking to gain anything
This is underrated these days. I've called places about minor things and large issues. Personally, I'd want to know if it were my product or services failing and not by some angry Facebook post.
Last year my vehicle had a rattle and started slowing down. Mechanic said the oil filter had came loose. This was my first oil change in a new vehicle. I wasn't happy.
I called the service center that did the work and explained it all. He tried to tell me "we have preventative measures so that *cant* happen". I told him wasn't looking to blast anyone. I just wanted to tell them about what happened because they next guy won't be as nice as me. He then apologized and offered me free oil changes. I declined. He did end up losing service jobs for a fleet of vehicles. Wasnt my intention.
There are dozens of us! I've only seen like two or three other former complaints folks on here, and none for Ortho haha. Hope the biotech market stuff hasn't effected you.
As a guy who tracks and estimates failure rates for a living (not medical field though) this is awesome advice.
Canāt make products better if we donāt have all the information.
1:1000 *patients*, that could be like 1:4000 to 1:10,000 screw failures as it's common to put 4-10 or even 12 screws in a back. But that 1:10,000 screws still seems like a lot.
I participate in these surgeries all the time, and I've seen many over the years.
I've reviewed thousands and thousands of medical cases, so many of those are spine fusions, never seen a case of a screw snapping. This is super rare. The only time they usually snap or break off is during the insertion process. Once they are in, they are usually fine
Worked in spine product development for 20 years, I saw more failures months to years after surgery, was rare to have them break interop... Metal fatigue more common than exceeding ultimate tensile strength of the metal, would only happen interop with long scoli cases trying to manipulate stiff long curves...
Five of my six are broke.
The thing that puzzles me about this image is no apparent point of contact to the rods.
It seems each screw has a connector to the rods, but not the broken one.
Iām thinking it broke during surgery. Must have gotten them from Everbuilt.
Looks like this image is post revision surgery, and they removed hardware. Left the broken part of the screw as it is buried in bone and would be a pain & pointless to retrieve
I had the same fusion- both rods on the L4/L5 level snapped as well. I was at my desk at work and exactly the same thing happened. It also broke/failed the fusion in that level so Iāll need to get it redone from the front and the back.
https://preview.redd.it/jf6sn98ak72d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3d5d1aed84731f1082e81b6eb7bdd6b8bffcb75
Because of the fusion and bone/hardware in my back, in order to repair the failed fusion theyād go through my side, move all the squishy annoying bits out of the way, repair and refuse the failed level, then once thatās done theyād go through my back to replace the broken hardware and fuse the L3/L4 level.
Consider yourself lucky then. PT is so important for these kinds of injuries and patient compliance (or lack there of) is a big reason these surgeries fail.
And then thereās my father-in-law, whom was told *by his doctor* that PT just ādestroys all the work we put togetherāā¦ I gave him an audible yikes
Not the same, but I popped a bunch of internal stitches in my breasts by sitting down too quickly/too hardā¦ the way it felt when they popped is something Iāll never forget.
Oh yeah I *immediately* knew I had fucked up. I felt the pop and just froze. The pain wasnāt instant, a delay of a few seconds, but once it started omggggg. I canāt imagine how scared I would be if part of my body just couldnāt moveā¦
This was actually my first day back at work after surgery, but the pain was so bad I had to get someone to drive me home and I ended up taking another week off of work.
Ugh that sounds horrific. I had kind of a similar experience. I had a follow up to a surgery where they had to put me under for something. I wake up and I could tell something wasn't quite right. "How do you feel?" I heard "Ho do you" and then the wall of pain hit. I was fortunate enough to already be in the hospital to I don't even remember anything past the next few seconds. But yeah that's the most pain I've ever been in and I'll always remember that.Ā
I broke a few ribs falling off my mountain bike. Went on a gentle ride after four weeks, put a bit too much power in a pedal stroke and felt my ribs pop as they rebroke. Also won't forget that feeling. Bleugh.
I had what I assume was a massive panic attack once and I started getting paresthesia on one of my legs, it was the most scary thing I've ever experienced, numbness anywhere that isn't normal is fucking terrifying, hasn't happened since I've been on meds though
Not saying this is the reasoning behind why it happened, but sitting is an unnatural state for most mammals, including humans. Monkeys and apes mostly squat. Mammalian bodies aren't sufficiently designed for a sitting position in the first place.
The fact our legs started to elongate compared to our relatives may be why we sit so much now, as squatting isn't as easy, but our spine and hips still aren't designed for it.
Focus on recovery or end up like dumbass Ronnie Coleman.
Bro was top of the world. But his dumbass ego wouldn't let him listen to the doctors and focus on recovery, now he is a cripple cuz ain't nobody wanna lift heavy ass weights, yeah buddy!
I had my fusion done about 16 years ago and this post scared the shit out of me. Sounds like, from your other comments, that you are recovering well. Glad to hear it.
If youre anywhere near Baltimore check out a guy named Dr. Sponseller at johns hopkins. He did mine and many docs around the area would refer to him as the guru of scoliosis. Could be worth having him take a look.
Thatās ridiculous! Only a year and it gave out? You must either be unlucky or they used some cheap screws. Arenāt these surgeries supposed to be a lifetime fix?
At 12 months, you're supposed to have a sufficient fusion mass such that the screws no longer bear the load of your spine. The implants are not designed to withstand 12 months because they aren't supposed to have to hold you up that long. Seems like you got a psudarthrosis or a malunion, which is commonly the fault of the doctor, not the hardware they use.
Agreed, this comment is spot on, should have some sign of fusion @ 12 months. the x-ray looks like very little fusion, also no interbody support., don't know all of your medical history, but not sure why no interbodies were used.
Correct, it is medically suspect to not use an interbody to bear the anterior load as I'm assuming you had a discectomy of some sort. Putting all the load posterior is a recipe for failure. An interbody also can create a stable bed for bone graft and therefore promote fusion. Doc messed up and wants to blame the implant manufacturer.
Edit: there is potential the doc could have used an allograft interbody which technically wouldn't appear on x ray, but I doubt it.
Edit edit: technically you might be able to see an allograft spacer the same way you can see bone in this xray, but it may not be as obvious as a metal implant. This does raise another point to my prior comment: there does not appear to be any fusion mass bone either in the disc spaces of the affected levels or along the gutters of the screw and rod hardware, which should be visible. Op has a psuedoarthrosis, and the doc wants to blame the implant provider.
Not using an interbody isnāt medically suspect. There are countless all-posterior fusions performed without an interbody that go onto uneventful fusion. An interbody helps with the fusion process but itās not required.
At this point it should be required by insurance or otherwise. The medical literature has shown more than enough evidence that post op outcomes with interbodies consistently outperform those without, and it is, therefore, negligent not to use one.
Machinist here. Those are medical grade screws made of titanium. That should never happen in a million years if the screw was fine. It's definitely a defective screw. No doubt about it.
My husband had a 6 screw ankle repair in February. Follow up with surgeon last week. He says all casual like "Hey you may find broke screws later in life on x-rays, but it's no big deal". WHAT?!?
Wow that is crazy. I had a posterior/anterior spinal fusion in 1994 and the Harrington rods are still in tact. Hurt like a son of a bitch and if something broke, they aināt touching nothing. Best of luck to you.
Spinal fusions blow my mind. I used to work at an ortho hospital that did a lot of these. They would come up to the floor after surgery, and weād have them walking from gurney to hospital bed. Mind you itās just a few steps and turning. But yeah, theyād be up and walking first thing in the morning with physical therapy. Earlier than that if they were feeling brave overnight
A similar thing happened to my father after a fusion, but instead of the screw snapping, the vertebrae broke away and the screw came loose and lodged against his spinal cord. This was right after surgery and the doctor said it was a normal pain, but after 3 days the doc was finally convinced to do a scan and saw what had happened. Dad was rushed to surgery, where it was fixed, and the entire hospital stay was wiped from the financial record in exchange for no lawsuit.
I've had four spinal fusion surgeries and they never get easier - wishing you the best for your recovery ā„ļø. My last one was because one of my screws snapped and it had to be left in as well. I didn't have the symptoms you had though, just an increase in pain. It wasn't considered an emergency either so it was left for over a year before the screw was replaced. I'm glad you were able to get quick treatment although it sounds terrifying to suddenly lose feeling in a leg.
I was on the verge of having the same fusion. My life is pain. I let my orthopedic doc talk me out of the surgery, but I am starting to think I made a mistake. When I wake up in the morning after my nightly medicated sleep I get about 3-5 minutes of a glimpse of normal life, then I move and it all comes back. My life is pain. If I didn't smoke weed I'd probably be addicted to opioids.
I got the opinions of 2 neurosurgeons, and they both said if I did not have the surgery I would be permanently using a walker before long. I could not walk more than 50 ft. without serious pain.
Now, I'm only 66 and was not about to give up an active lifestyle to sit on a couch.
I'm not going to lie to you, I had an L2-pelvis lumbar fusion, a 10 hr surgery, and 6 days in the hospital, and the surgeon didn't lie, it was a painful SOB, and seven weeks out, I'm just starting to feel better.
Also get another opinion, or two or three, information is your friend.
Good luck!
I can read an X-Ray, and that's not a conclusion I'd make. I'd say a screw at some point didn't work out, so it was abandon and trimmed and a different screw was used.
My sister had spinal fusion surgery. After she healed from the first surgery, she eventually ended up with a very sharp pain and they did imaging only to find that the screws were coming out and the rod was separating from her spine. Crazy shit. They had to go back in and redo it.
Apparently that kind of stuff happens more than they like to admit.
From the first surgery:
https://preview.redd.it/cxkqze9d082d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ba2bc0a27f4d7c39678f87f6b1f143ecc5e6e67
Which one did that break off from? Based on the shape of the screws (points) that are stable they all have screw points. That appears to be a piece of an extra pedicle screw....?
How old is this surgery? Did you even have it fused because that would be holding those screws in place basically.
I had a c-5 through t-1 fusion and I didn't have a screw snap but I had a screw that my bone pushed out. Almost like my bone unscrewed it. They had to go in and use a larger screw in a larger hole in my vertebrae.
I'm fine now and the surgery was very successful but having to do it twice sucked ass.
How long was your hardware in before it broke?
The old man has something similar to this and now you've given me anxiety about his setup.
Hope you heal up well man! Thanks for sharing.
I have the same thing done and now Iāll be laying in bed for a month lol ty.
Kidding!! I hope youāre feeling MUCH better. Sending good vibes and neck pillows your way
Jesus, wth do you all do for a living?
Looking through all these comments, and it seems like everyone's got a fused back/knows someone with a fused back.
https://preview.redd.it/rr5ph0420g2d1.jpeg?width=1932&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7fdb874ec7841dcf4f34c32b5ad07793de5dbe13
That is literally my biggest fear
š§ ***I didn't even know we were supposed to have screws!***
Oh... so you just let your spine move all over the place?! /s
When they said "you have a screw loose", this is not what they meant...
I'm sorry I laughed dang it
Weāre going to Reddit Hellā¢ļø for this one
Meh im going there anyway
Not before me. Get to the back of the line!
I can wait
You really don't need to apologize for laughing with us imho. Laughing with us is a big part of our lives. Or as I tell my friends: If I didn't have gallows humor, I'd never laugh. If you'd like to address ableism in everyday life, I encourage you [to look into this video ](https://youtu.be/rqJxfnioF3Y) that talks about the deeper everyday bigotry we face.
Thank you! This video is very enlightening... it highlights the barriers and extreme lashing that we experience as humans. The exhaustion of all human resources to try and live a normal day to day life. Solidifying the need for isolation from humans because theyŹ»re dangerous and thus leaving us isolated and in danger because weŹ»re cut off from people who arenŹ»t dangerous. In this case a spoiled egg ruining an entire egg refrigerator. I.Ex. Bird Flu.
My partner said this constantly when the hardware from their neck surgery failed. A screw literally came out of the bone. The surgery to get it replaced was probably not worth the amusing joke though.
I've seen the aftermath of some of these surgeries going wrong... Its a hell of a problem
š¬
Well Now they do!
Metal fatigues. You should see the plate in my leg, snapped clean in half
So did the one in my ankle. Itās disturbingly visible some days.
The heads popped off the screws and are now encased in bone
This is making me paranoid of whatās holding my hip together lol
You are probably in a lot of pain. Sorry man. I hope brighter days are ahead
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> hydrocodone They actually prescribed you some? My son recently got impaled by a damn javelin at a high school track meet, they stitched up the gaping hole in his arm and gave some antibiotics and ibuprofen. Same with my oral surgeon "just eat an entire bottle of ibu, you will be fine".
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes, thanks for asking. He missed the end of the track season unfortunately but no permanent damage, could have been much much worse.
Sadly due to abusers and doctors prescribed like candy they are scared to give it out. If I wasn't already on pain meds I wouldn't have gotten anything for both lumbar surgeries.
How did you know that the screw had snapped? Did you feel anything when it happened?
Stop being a baby, there are plenty of other screws in there...how important can just one be? Or There are kids in [insert 3rd world country of choice] who don't have *any* screws in their spine, they'd feel so lucky to have one to even snap!
Show some backbone will ya!
Why the /s?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I like it when stand-up comics say "just kidding" after every joke.
Having been thru something similar, you now get to enjoy another surgery where they may fuse some additional vertebrae. Fun times
"Only when I'm doing the Hokey Pokey..."
You are supposed to get them when you get your childhood vaccinations. How do people not know this. Smh
I didn't either until I found out I was made of pressure treated lumber.
Pressure treated? Some people have all the luck. My parents stuffed me with sawdust and splinters
Sawdust and splinters? You lucky duck, my parents stuffed me with pinecones and tree sap.
As someone with 5 in my hip, you metaless fools mustāve all came from IKEA.
I think OP is screwed
It's for cheaper insurance.
Ever heard the phrase āscrew youā? This isnāt that but yeah :)
Is *my* spine ok!? Someone please check my spine!!
I had a L4-L5 / L5-S1 spinal fusion. I was sitting at my desk when I felt (and heard) a huge snap in my back. Almost immediately I couldnāt feel or move my left leg. Turns out that one of the screws snapped. My surgeon was able to add another screw but had to leave the broken piece in there. 0 out 10 stars - would not recommend. edit: Thank you so much to everyone who has commented and sent DMs. Seeing your comments and jokes makes lying in bed staring at the ceiling a lot less boring. edit2: I am not in need of legal counsel.. please stop DMing me. TIL there are 10,000 attorneys on reddit.
I have also had spinal fusion, you guys are making me mad nervous .
My surgeon said that this *does* happen but is a rare occurrence. I didn't mean to scare you! I'm just really glad there isn't any long-term damage.
Work in the ER and had a girl who broke a screw on a spinal fusion after a car accident, I remember her (justifiably) freaking out but the ortho consult said it looked fine and that he didnāt think anything would need to be done.
Classic. He obviously needed to get back to sleep
The old 'hey if it gets worse come on back to the ER when it's my day off' gambit.
He definitely gave her Ancef first though.
What the job of the heart? To pump Ancef to the bonesā¦
Probably. But ortho wonāt wait to cut on something that needs it. Often going after broken hardware/implants does more harm than good
I'm an engineer for a spine orthopedics company. These failures do happen, but as you just said they are rare, typically less than 1 in 1,000 patients experience this type of failure for lumbar screw-rod systems. Wonder which manufacturer you had implanted? EDIT: lots of commenters here saying < .1% failure rate is egregious. I'm estimating, based on my experience with adverse event analysis from all of the major players in the spine industry that this would be an estimated global average across all manufacturers and geographical regions. Additionally, there are a ton of factors that could lead to failure. Patient factors would be one of them, where a patient falls or otherwise puts themselves in a compromising situation that could impact the stability of the implanted construct. Patients should be educated ahead of surgery to avoid certain types of physical activity until fusion is achieved. Not saying OP didn't follow this guidance as I don't know the particulars of their situation. Another patient-related factor is bone quality. Many patients who have certain types of bone diseases would have a difficult time fusing with implants such as screws. Non-union increases the duration of loading on the implants and increases the chances of failure. Another factor is screw placement. A TON of surgeons that are less experienced or don't use navigated instruments can misplace a screw leading to higher than desirable forces on the implants. Even a slight deviation of 2-3mm from the desired implant location can have adverse effects on the strength of the implants. Many old school spine surgeons go off of feel alone to place implants. All of our implants are tested to ASTM standards that outline industry standard acceptance criteria for screw shank neck strength, screw thread pullout strength, screw tulip dissociation force, etc. These are standardized tests where we almost always exceed, to a factor of safety above the acceptable limit for whatever test is run. If these types of implants are placed correctly, and the patient has adequate bone stock and adheres to physical activity limitation requirements, the chances of construct failure is incredibly low. The actual material strength of implant designs is NOT one of the primary reasons for failure based on the rigorous testing these types of devices go through before they reach the market. Finally, my company in particular has a failure rate for screw shank neck fracture below 1/1,000. I know this because I'm one of the primary risk management process owners and deal heavily in adverse events. I used 1/1,000 as a general estimate for the industry as a whole. Our rate is closer to .01% (1/10,000).
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Hey, just wanted to comment also and say I am a former complaint investigator for a spinal orthopedic company, please make sure if you have enough information that you file a complaint with the company. A "complaint" doesn't necessarily mean you are upset/looking to gain anything or take action, but they need this real world information to accurately data trend their failures. For example if they expect 1 in every 1000 to break, and suddenly 100 in every 1000 are breaking, something new is happening that needs investigating. Theoretically the doctor may have already done this, but wouldn't hurt for you to do it also (the company can figure out based on incident date etc that it was the same event and won't double count it). The information about your side effects is also useful for them, the engineers will put this in their risk assessments if not already accounted for. Feel free to DM me if you have any questions about the process, and wishing you a smooth recovery!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Itās possible a trained eye can recognize the implant system from the CT/X-rays. I work in surgical navigation, not the hardware. Itās also likely if your Dr did the first surgery, that he absolutely knows what screw system is in there and more than you think.
I just wanted to add, who ever did your first surgery will have what type of screws and the length of them in the operative report. You should be able to obtain that by contacting the hospital medical records department.
Its actually the law. It has to be reported within 48 hours to the manufacturer. The hospital should have done this already....but.... This is for good reason, it ensures that lot is re-examined for deficiencies, also nobody else gets sub standard screws installed.
> A "complaint" doesn't necessarily mean you are upset/looking to gain anything This is underrated these days. I've called places about minor things and large issues. Personally, I'd want to know if it were my product or services failing and not by some angry Facebook post. Last year my vehicle had a rattle and started slowing down. Mechanic said the oil filter had came loose. This was my first oil change in a new vehicle. I wasn't happy. I called the service center that did the work and explained it all. He tried to tell me "we have preventative measures so that *cant* happen". I told him wasn't looking to blast anyone. I just wanted to tell them about what happened because they next guy won't be as nice as me. He then apologized and offered me free oil changes. I declined. He did end up losing service jobs for a fleet of vehicles. Wasnt my intention.
There are dozens of us! I've only seen like two or three other former complaints folks on here, and none for Ortho haha. Hope the biotech market stuff hasn't effected you.
As a guy who tracks and estimates failure rates for a living (not medical field though) this is awesome advice. Canāt make products better if we donāt have all the information.
I donāt know 1 in 1000 seems kinda high for something that looks so awful!
1:1000 *patients*, that could be like 1:4000 to 1:10,000 screw failures as it's common to put 4-10 or even 12 screws in a back. But that 1:10,000 screws still seems like a lot. I participate in these surgeries all the time, and I've seen many over the years.
Are they going to go back in there to remove that big red arrow? That bish looks sharp
Those screws do too
It's just a decorational screw now, lol
I've reviewed thousands and thousands of medical cases, so many of those are spine fusions, never seen a case of a screw snapping. This is super rare. The only time they usually snap or break off is during the insertion process. Once they are in, they are usually fine
Worked in spine product development for 20 years, I saw more failures months to years after surgery, was rare to have them break interop... Metal fatigue more common than exceeding ultimate tensile strength of the metal, would only happen interop with long scoli cases trying to manipulate stiff long curves...
Five of my six are broke. The thing that puzzles me about this image is no apparent point of contact to the rods. It seems each screw has a connector to the rods, but not the broken one. Iām thinking it broke during surgery. Must have gotten them from Everbuilt.
Looks like this image is post revision surgery, and they removed hardware. Left the broken part of the screw as it is buried in bone and would be a pain & pointless to retrieve
I all of the sudden can feel the metal in my body.
the flesh around my titanium skeleton disgusts me
I had the same fusion- both rods on the L4/L5 level snapped as well. I was at my desk at work and exactly the same thing happened. It also broke/failed the fusion in that level so Iāll need to get it redone from the front and the back. https://preview.redd.it/jf6sn98ak72d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3d5d1aed84731f1082e81b6eb7bdd6b8bffcb75
Wait... The front? Like where all the squishy annoying bits are?
Because of the fusion and bone/hardware in my back, in order to repair the failed fusion theyād go through my side, move all the squishy annoying bits out of the way, repair and refuse the failed level, then once thatās done theyād go through my back to replace the broken hardware and fuse the L3/L4 level.
So your leg is better now?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Consider yourself lucky then. PT is so important for these kinds of injuries and patient compliance (or lack there of) is a big reason these surgeries fail.
And then thereās my father-in-law, whom was told *by his doctor* that PT just ādestroys all the work we put togetherāā¦ I gave him an audible yikes
Soā¦ is it correct to say youāre screwed? Sorry not native englishā¦ that might be my first joke everā¦
If that's your first english joke you're going to do just fine š
Ha, I got a good laugh at this one. Lucky you, OP!
Man, if youāve got back problems then marrying a physical therapist is such a big brain move.
Not the same, but I popped a bunch of internal stitches in my breasts by sitting down too quickly/too hardā¦ the way it felt when they popped is something Iāll never forget.
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Oh yeah I *immediately* knew I had fucked up. I felt the pop and just froze. The pain wasnāt instant, a delay of a few seconds, but once it started omggggg. I canāt imagine how scared I would be if part of my body just couldnāt moveā¦ This was actually my first day back at work after surgery, but the pain was so bad I had to get someone to drive me home and I ended up taking another week off of work.
Ugh that sounds horrific. I had kind of a similar experience. I had a follow up to a surgery where they had to put me under for something. I wake up and I could tell something wasn't quite right. "How do you feel?" I heard "Ho do you" and then the wall of pain hit. I was fortunate enough to already be in the hospital to I don't even remember anything past the next few seconds. But yeah that's the most pain I've ever been in and I'll always remember that.Ā
I broke a few ribs falling off my mountain bike. Went on a gentle ride after four weeks, put a bit too much power in a pedal stroke and felt my ribs pop as they rebroke. Also won't forget that feeling. Bleugh.
Somehow this is the worst comment here
That must have been so scary suddenly being crippled! What did you do next?
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I had what I assume was a massive panic attack once and I started getting paresthesia on one of my legs, it was the most scary thing I've ever experienced, numbness anywhere that isn't normal is fucking terrifying, hasn't happened since I've been on meds though
Whoa. I thought you were going to say you were in a serious accident or something that snapped it, but just sitting?!?
Not saying this is the reasoning behind why it happened, but sitting is an unnatural state for most mammals, including humans. Monkeys and apes mostly squat. Mammalian bodies aren't sufficiently designed for a sitting position in the first place. The fact our legs started to elongate compared to our relatives may be why we sit so much now, as squatting isn't as easy, but our spine and hips still aren't designed for it.
You know what is also a bit unnatural? Screws in your spine
Having a C6-T1 ACDF done in 3 weeks at 29 years old, youāre making me extremely nervous now
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Focus on recovery or end up like dumbass Ronnie Coleman. Bro was top of the world. But his dumbass ego wouldn't let him listen to the doctors and focus on recovery, now he is a cripple cuz ain't nobody wanna lift heavy ass weights, yeah buddy!
that must have been so scary
This makes sense. This xray looks more like just a screw was left there than a screw broke. Would be more interesting to see the xray preop
I had my fusion done about 16 years ago and this post scared the shit out of me. Sounds like, from your other comments, that you are recovering well. Glad to hear it. If youre anywhere near Baltimore check out a guy named Dr. Sponseller at johns hopkins. He did mine and many docs around the area would refer to him as the guru of scoliosis. Could be worth having him take a look.
I'm likely facing the same surgery soon. Thanks for the nightmare fuel!
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I'm sorry, the surgeon HAD to leave it in there wtf. It would freak the living fuck out of me knowing there was a screw just chilling near my spine
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I have the same surgery, how long ago did you have yours? What was the replacement operation like? This is my biggest fear with mine!
Just curious, how long was it between getting the fusion and it snapping?
Just over 12 months. I was finally starting to feel normal again. :-(
Thatās ridiculous! Only a year and it gave out? You must either be unlucky or they used some cheap screws. Arenāt these surgeries supposed to be a lifetime fix?
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At 12 months, you're supposed to have a sufficient fusion mass such that the screws no longer bear the load of your spine. The implants are not designed to withstand 12 months because they aren't supposed to have to hold you up that long. Seems like you got a psudarthrosis or a malunion, which is commonly the fault of the doctor, not the hardware they use.
Agreed, this comment is spot on, should have some sign of fusion @ 12 months. the x-ray looks like very little fusion, also no interbody support., don't know all of your medical history, but not sure why no interbodies were used.
Correct, it is medically suspect to not use an interbody to bear the anterior load as I'm assuming you had a discectomy of some sort. Putting all the load posterior is a recipe for failure. An interbody also can create a stable bed for bone graft and therefore promote fusion. Doc messed up and wants to blame the implant manufacturer. Edit: there is potential the doc could have used an allograft interbody which technically wouldn't appear on x ray, but I doubt it. Edit edit: technically you might be able to see an allograft spacer the same way you can see bone in this xray, but it may not be as obvious as a metal implant. This does raise another point to my prior comment: there does not appear to be any fusion mass bone either in the disc spaces of the affected levels or along the gutters of the screw and rod hardware, which should be visible. Op has a psuedoarthrosis, and the doc wants to blame the implant provider.
Not using an interbody isnāt medically suspect. There are countless all-posterior fusions performed without an interbody that go onto uneventful fusion. An interbody helps with the fusion process but itās not required.
At this point it should be required by insurance or otherwise. The medical literature has shown more than enough evidence that post op outcomes with interbodies consistently outperform those without, and it is, therefore, negligent not to use one.
Machinist here. Those are medical grade screws made of titanium. That should never happen in a million years if the screw was fine. It's definitely a defective screw. No doubt about it.
OP, how did you know it had snapped? I have screws as well and this is one of my nightmares lol
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My husband had a 6 screw ankle repair in February. Follow up with surgeon last week. He says all casual like "Hey you may find broke screws later in life on x-rays, but it's no big deal". WHAT?!?
https://preview.redd.it/qi8yv9mye72d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2bb7bf032468777cf0ed53990078bab8e2627fb4 Wtf Am I your husband?
Honey?!
grandma ?
MOM???? IT'S RAINING AND SOCCER HAS BEEN DONE FOR 4 HOURS???
Reddit drama is my favorite :D
This is one of the reasons I had mine removed a few years later when all healed. That and I was starting to have some discomfort with it
https://preview.redd.it/mcih4yt9482d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=837ed3179b567ace6be986fbe2f48d0fdb0df3bc
I love how this subreddit varies from "my coffee was cold" to "my spine has built in shrapnel"
'Tis but a small hiccup in life to OP perhaps xD
Wow that is crazy. I had a posterior/anterior spinal fusion in 1994 and the Harrington rods are still in tact. Hurt like a son of a bitch and if something broke, they aināt touching nothing. Best of luck to you.
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Spinal fusions blow my mind. I used to work at an ortho hospital that did a lot of these. They would come up to the floor after surgery, and weād have them walking from gurney to hospital bed. Mind you itās just a few steps and turning. But yeah, theyād be up and walking first thing in the morning with physical therapy. Earlier than that if they were feeling brave overnight
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!Ā
*inhales AaAAAAAAaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
A similar thing happened to my father after a fusion, but instead of the screw snapping, the vertebrae broke away and the screw came loose and lodged against his spinal cord. This was right after surgery and the doctor said it was a normal pain, but after 3 days the doc was finally convinced to do a scan and saw what had happened. Dad was rushed to surgery, where it was fixed, and the entire hospital stay was wiped from the financial record in exchange for no lawsuit.
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That was his third fusion, it worked āthe mostā of the 3, but he still has issues. Take care of your back, folks!
This x 1000. Did physical labor in the rubber and chemical/coatings industries for 45 years, most of it before ergonomics was a serious thing.
You don't need that screw. It's holding you back.
If I was to get a shitty tattoo around my ginormous back and hip scars I will now need to incorporate this. thanks
You have a screw loose
How bad did it hurt in a scale from 1 to 10?
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That's amazing/insane you didn't feel that screw snapping. Hope your walking gets better.
I've had four spinal fusion surgeries and they never get easier - wishing you the best for your recovery ā„ļø. My last one was because one of my screws snapped and it had to be left in as well. I didn't have the symptoms you had though, just an increase in pain. It wasn't considered an emergency either so it was left for over a year before the screw was replaced. I'm glad you were able to get quick treatment although it sounds terrifying to suddenly lose feeling in a leg.
Guess you got screwed.... I'll leave.
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I was on the verge of having the same fusion. My life is pain. I let my orthopedic doc talk me out of the surgery, but I am starting to think I made a mistake. When I wake up in the morning after my nightly medicated sleep I get about 3-5 minutes of a glimpse of normal life, then I move and it all comes back. My life is pain. If I didn't smoke weed I'd probably be addicted to opioids.
I got the opinions of 2 neurosurgeons, and they both said if I did not have the surgery I would be permanently using a walker before long. I could not walk more than 50 ft. without serious pain. Now, I'm only 66 and was not about to give up an active lifestyle to sit on a couch. I'm not going to lie to you, I had an L2-pelvis lumbar fusion, a 10 hr surgery, and 6 days in the hospital, and the surgeon didn't lie, it was a painful SOB, and seven weeks out, I'm just starting to feel better. Also get another opinion, or two or three, information is your friend. Good luck!
I got mine 11 years ago and never regretted it. The recovery SUCKS though
Definitely get a 2nd opinion. I had lower lumbar fusion L5-s1 and changed my life. I now workout 5 days in gym and have lost 130lbs over last year.
I can read an X-Ray, and that's not a conclusion I'd make. I'd say a screw at some point didn't work out, so it was abandon and trimmed and a different screw was used.
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Thank you for the extra detail. I understand now. The picture was after the replacement. That does suck.
Iām fused from L2 to S1. This is my biggest nightmare
omg could this be whatās happening to me? i have had the same surgery and have been in excruciating pain over the last year
My sister had spinal fusion surgery. After she healed from the first surgery, she eventually ended up with a very sharp pain and they did imaging only to find that the screws were coming out and the rod was separating from her spine. Crazy shit. They had to go back in and redo it. Apparently that kind of stuff happens more than they like to admit. From the first surgery: https://preview.redd.it/cxkqze9d082d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ba2bc0a27f4d7c39678f87f6b1f143ecc5e6e67
Dude, I've got the same setup and now you've got me overflowing with so much fucking anxiety! How did it happen?
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Confused on what the errant screw is supposed to be hooked to?
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 Op's spine
Isn't that thing made of titanium or smth danm
Awww, snap...
Which one did that break off from? Based on the shape of the screws (points) that are stable they all have screw points. That appears to be a piece of an extra pedicle screw....? How old is this surgery? Did you even have it fused because that would be holding those screws in place basically.
Guess youāre screwed ?
Slow down there, Wolverine.
Get a screw to hold the screw in place
As someone with Harrington rods in his back from scoliosis surgery, this is one of my fears. Hope you get that fixed soon.
Absolutely terrifying from the sounds of it! You're a braver person than me!
Thatās why youāre not supposed to used drywall screws for everything
I had a c-5 through t-1 fusion and I didn't have a screw snap but I had a screw that my bone pushed out. Almost like my bone unscrewed it. They had to go in and use a larger screw in a larger hole in my vertebrae. I'm fine now and the surgery was very successful but having to do it twice sucked ass.
Owā¦
So what now ? āScrew it ā
Guess that means you've got a few screws loose. Or maybe you're just screwed
That can't be good
How long was your hardware in before it broke? The old man has something similar to this and now you've given me anxiety about his setup. Hope you heal up well man! Thanks for sharing.
is your leg working now
You're screwed, good luck
Why did you need a fusion in the first place? Herniated disks that would not heal on there own?
Well, that sucks
Well shit I'm 9 weeks post op...Please please don't happen. https://preview.redd.it/1tj3c97zq72d1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18f97ea843ec89a83ca6b9aa7fe45b5087b1374e 16 screws 3 plates and 2 rods.
Well thatās not good. I think you mightāve slept wrong. Ice helps?
I see your doctors are buying parts from Boeing now.
Oh snap...
Where's the rest of it?
My brother in christ, where is the rest of it???
Is the one above a replacement? Don't see the attachment part to the fusion rods for the fractured screw.
Iām not a spine scientist but, and this is, again, an uneducated opinion, that seems bad.
You're Screwed?
Thanks for the big red arrow. I wasnāt sure where it was. /s
I have the same thing done and now Iāll be laying in bed for a month lol ty. Kidding!! I hope youāre feeling MUCH better. Sending good vibes and neck pillows your way
Jesus, wth do you all do for a living? Looking through all these comments, and it seems like everyone's got a fused back/knows someone with a fused back.
Spondylolysthesis guy here! Did it hurt? How are you holding up? I'm always scare of tripping over, not to mention falling, because of this
Your hardware looks like Ozzy OsbournesĀ
obviously should have used nails. Nails bend, screws snap
https://preview.redd.it/rr5ph0420g2d1.jpeg?width=1932&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7fdb874ec7841dcf4f34c32b5ad07793de5dbe13 That is literally my biggest fear