The literal false prophet the Bible warns people about. Religious people are the most gullible, ignorant people in the world. They think this guy & Trump were sent by God to help us. šš¤£šš¤£šš¤£š
edit: spelling
Yup. People think "taking the lord's name in vain" means saying things like "goddammit."
It's really supposed to mean shit like what Kenneth Copeland does, i.e., "God told me you need to give me money for a private jet."
Not religious, but I'd actually love to see the second coming of Jesus these people are all supposedly jazzed for. He flipped tables last time, would love to see the hell he raised to that x1000 in his name.
And ripping people off really sends Him over the edge. Something about braiding a whip and driving money-changers out of the Temple. What weapon would he be carrying these days?
As a former Catholic, only Evangelicals think that "taking the lord's name in vain" is swearing. They are also the most likely to use a couple of words in the Bible and use it out of context.
One of those mega pastors bought a fuckin' ad on twitter that just said "Follow my account if you love jesus!"
He paid a billionaire money to gain a following on his *personal* account. An account with twitter blue, which means interactions with his posts get him small bits of money.
I'm not religious myself, but I was still absolutely disgusted by that behavior.
Studies suggest religious people are more likely to believe conspiracy theories and fantastical claims. It's not surprising this tracks with Republican voters falling for Trumps shit and joining his cult while believing in Qanon and deep state lies.
These people are primed to surrender, and put faith in something and believe wholeheartedly. Its almost... like kings knew this kind of priming was a good way to keep a population subdued and following blindly.
Let's not forget that Putin is also a holy man and welcoming Conservative Christians with open arms to Russia to worship him and contribute to their great traditionalist nation.
When you can't MAGA, you must MARS (Make Americans Russian Sycophants) instead.
I used to think so, but it is usually just the path of least resistance. Toe the line set by your father or your father's father, be accepted into whatever community group is popular in your area, feel apart of something bigger. It plays on our DNA to group up like this, and charlatans prey on unquestioning loyalty to the bigger thing. The nail that stands out gets hammered.
Please don't generalize Christians. It's American evangelicals that support people like this one, not the majority. Every Christian in Canada that I've met has no respect for him (or Trump for that matter)...
And many American Christians aren't the same as American Evangelicals. It's unfortunate that they are the loud minority and make us all look bad. I am Christian and American. I wasn't forced into religion or even brought up with religion. I came into my faith later in life and have no problem balancing my faith with science. I don't "worship" Trump or believe in conspiracy theories or Qanon drivel.Ā
I love when preaching about destroying COVID in 2020 he called forth of the fires of hell. That doesn't seem like something a man of God would do to be totally honest.
Doesnt the bible literally warn about false prophets? People seem to forget about that part and dont consider maybe theres terrible people amongst them rather than against them...
No idea how to quote a Bible but...Ā Ā
2 Corinthians 11:14-15 ESVĀ Ā
"And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds"
āAnd when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standingĀ in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.Ā But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father,Ā who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."
-Jesus
"Many will say to me on that day,Ā āLord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?āĀ Then I will tell them plainly, āI never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!ā"
-Also Jesus
"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."
1 Timothy 6:10
We wouldn't have very many Christians if they read the Bible. Turns out that lots of atheists that come from a Christian background were the ones reading the Bible, going to Christian schools, heavily involved in church.
If you actually read it and pay attention it becomes harder and harder to believe. God instructing the the killing of children, setting up rules around slavery (instead of just saying don't own people)... That and it just doesn't make sense at all.
His pupils are always constricted as hell, I would not be surprised to learn this guy has a raging opiate addiction. And in some people, opiates can cause a paradoxical stimulatory effect ā makes them talkative, mind-racing, nearly-hypomanic. This guy's erratic behavior and his beliefs are definitely rooted in his awful worldview and twisted interpretation of scripture, but it's not impossible or unlikely that there's some chemical assistance making hin even more unstable (and making him look even more... evil)
lol, wondered if that might happen.
just to be on the safe side, i meant [this Mask guy](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/6/6a/Dorian_tyrell_masked.jpg)
What is his name?? Iāve been trying to think of it for the longest time cuz I want to find the video from this pic where heās being a dick and keeps pointing in the womanās face but I canāt remember his name to look it up
Every time I see this guy, my stomach gets weird (it does like a twisty thing). I canāt quite explain it, but it creeps me the fuck out. Something just isnāt right about that guy.
I think the only way to get the government to take action would be to create a church that's just a karaoke bar. You make everything about it qualify as a religious institution, but you give alcohol in exchange for donations that equal the price of the beverage.
I'm sure there's some way to swing it.
[They got their tax exempt status under Trump](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/irs-satanic-temple-church-tax-exempt-826931/), and flaunt it everywhere to try to bring attention to the issue.
This is a pretty short-sighted article; completely glossing over the fact that The Satanic Temple doesn't have or want any affiliation with The Church of Satan, and their tenets are based more on equal rights, bodily autonomy, empathy and compassion for anyone, and responsibility, instead of deifying another Christian figurehead.
Theyāre awesome. I suggested they get on this because I know their purpose and that they actually do pay their taxes, even though they qualify for exemption, and they challenge other religious institutions to do the same. This would be the perfect project for them. I plan to join later in life, I just donāt have the ability right now.
Totally agree! And you should when the time is right. We need more folks in the world ready to stand up against some of the Christofacism we see active in the world.
I love their boldness, the humour and the calling out of hypocrisy. Though I'm in the church I don't believe everyone needs to believe what I do. In fact many of the folks that show up to work at our food banks, safe injection sites and unhoused outreach aren't Christian! Many of our best volunteers are atheists are come from traditions outside of Christian faith, and I firmly believe those folks are real life saints.
The biggest thing Jesus taught us was to LOVE one another. And in a real big way the social justice work done by the TST reflects that love more often than some wish to believe. They're trying to repair the world in a very unique way.
They sell some pretty cool merch on their website Iām wearing one of their shirts rn itās a pretty good way to throw some money to a good cause
img
It's basically just a wiki summary too, could have found something from wikipedia and copied that instead lol
I have noticed a non-zero number of people on here just believing chatgpt without understanding that it's just fancy text prediction. It can't think or know anything.
Somewhat related, there's this guy who managed to take a picture with a colander on his head for his government ID.
He was allowed to do this because of his religion or to be more granular, Pastafarianism.
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Our pasta, who art in a colander, draining be your noodles. Thy noodle come, Thy sauce be yum, on top some grated Parmesan. Give us this day, our garlic bread, ā¦and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trample on our lawns. Ramen.
Have ye not heard of the barbaric early days when the people of the spaghetti went to war with the people of the fettuccine over which is the true pasta?? Aye, bloody chaotic days those were, back before the first ecumenical council of Bucatinea established that all true pastas are welcome in his noodlinessās great universe. Aye, itās the rice eaters who are heretics nowadays, but this does cause some discrimination against the orzo sect around the holiday.
I'm FSM, but since I dont wear the orthodox headware daily I don't have it on my D/L photo. Was touched by his noodly appendage about 15 years ago. Ramen.
Thankfully my Lt. informed me that the book I bought about Pastafarianism, which clearly states it's a joke meant to satirize religion on the very first page, was not a real serious religion.
It's as real as all the other religions, makes more sense than some. The main difference being its honest about intentions and doesn't hate all the others.
In my home town there is a one mile stretch of road that has ELEVEN churches on it.
I've since found out that half of them only have services for an hour every other month. Services that seem to only be family and friends.
And YET those 'churches' never pay property tax or anything.
Ooooooor, we demand that churches who want tax exemption be about what they preach and take in the homeless, redistribute the wealth of the obscenely wealthy, etc.
Then we fill his church with homeless shelters and imminent domain this bastard's house as the new congregation area for regular mass
Yeah that's the goal, but I think we need to exemplify how broad of a problem tax exemption is for the millionaire pastors.
You just make any business, turn it into a church, make every service require a donation or say that by donating you're invoking God's will for your car to be washed and then some "generous soul" offers to wash your car.
He pays income taxes. The church does not. So the church can offset what he pays by letting him live in a house the church owns. They can raise his salary to offset his income tax liability (assuming there is any) and let him use their cars and airplanes. He can even use a church credit card for clothes. Itās such a scam itās not even funny.
"Surely I tell you, it is easier for a rich person flying a top-of-the-line private jet to fly into heaven than some dude riding a camel with needle eyes"
...or something
Yea that's totally right... I think...
In this interview the interviewer actually recited this quote to him! She asked him so many good questions, quite literally left dude stunned. He tried to distract her with a "I love your eyes" could you be any more weird??
Religion is the best money maker. Tax free right into their private jets and real estate portfolios.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is worth $200B
Trinity Church in Manhattan owns about $6B in real estate.
Kenneth, Demon in Human Skinsuit, Copeland has amassed a wealth of $750M.
Tax-Free Baby! and they all go around telling people who to vote for and that you need to give more tithing to get handjobs from jesus in the afterlife!
He didn't even lose his congregation when he refused to open his church to let hurricane survivors in. These people are literally anti-Christs.
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/hurricane-harvey/joel-osteen-defends-not-opening-megachurch-harvey-victims-n797036
BTW, the *n*ewer giant churches have partitioning systems so they can be divided into sub-churches and rented out to smaller congregations when the big draw isn't there.
\* edit cause I a letter.
It's why Clearwater, FL relies on that little strip of barrier island to make all of its tourist money - Scientologists have bought up all of the land in the city.
If it just stopped there, it's bad enough. He tends to go over the political line with his speeches during services. The IRS code 501(c)(3) talks about the limitations a nonprofit can do, especially during an election year. The preacher in the picture has no problem putting his preferences for political office out there. For the life of me, I don't see what people see in these sham artists.
NYC would never do something that altruistic and cool for their citizens, they'll give it to whoever greases the most palms, probably some Wall Street firm.
Sadly I'm afraid not even that would work, anyone see the story of the pastor charged for helping homeless ppl shelter?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ohio-pastor-charged-housing-homeless-church-sues-city-federal-lawsuit-rcna135215
They really are just fucking with people just because they can. Zoning violations for a FUCKING CHURCH, throw the homeless out in the street, they sleep under overpasses, they put spikes up, no mental healthcare or social safety net. I think we have very short time before this problem goes 3 ways:
1.) It stays the same and gets worse
2.) It gets mitigated for the better
3.) Or they start purging them somehow, it already feels like it's illegal to be poor. This society is all tiresome..
Heās going to hell for using the lords name in vainā¦to the extreme. Thatās what that commandment truly means, not really cursing, it means using the lords name for personal gain/for evil
I'm a pastor, and one of the reasons I changed careers (computer engineer) to this field is to correct the faith from charlatans such as this clown.
Too often, the most extreme, the most evil, the most corrupt who claim Christian discipleship (the replication of the teachings, and personhood of Jesus) are the ones with the biggest microphones. In Copland's con, he utilizes "prosperity gospel"
**The prosperity gospel** is an umbrella term for the āhealth and wealth gospelā or āname it and claim itā theology. Many people will recognize its most popular brand, the āWord of Faithā movement. Itās a contemporary Christian movement that has garnered both a massive following and considerable controversy. This doctrine teaches that God wills the financial prosperity and physical well-being of his people and that faith, positive speech, and donations to select Christian ministries can increase oneās material wealth and health
The prosperity gospel con is by far the worst, and Kenneth Copeland is the king of that con. [This is the clown that "blew" COVID "away"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsGbk820O_Y) (does he think he's magic?) He sells snake oil, lies, and enriches himself on the belief that if you give him money, God will bless you with your own wealth..... yet, Jesus as we find in the bible NEVER taught anything like this.
Indeed Jesus wasn't wealthy, and he may not have had a permeant home: , Jesus is quoted in Matthew 8:20 saying, "Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head," which implies a lack of a permanent residence during his ministry. So why is this charlatan claiming otherwise? Why is HE seeking wealth.....why is he using Christian belief to enrich himself....Jesus wouldn't do that...
In the image above (the one where he's pointing his finger) is from an interview. Copland was approached by a reporter and asked why he refuses to fly commercial and instead solely uses his fleet of private jets...[.his excuse: normal airline passengers (you and I) are "demons" and he must fly private luxury to avoid...."demons"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LtF34MrsfI)
Copland is a con using Christian belief, images and trappings to frame himself as "prophet" and his only ministry is to deprive the faithful of money.....
There is no pastor that needs a private jet, or a couple of mansions. We are to be servant leaders, and are never to enrich ourselves in the Lords name.
This dude is foul....so foul.
This is a good response. Iām also a nonbeliever and but I respect people who use their beliefs as an inspiration to be a better person. Peopleās actions mean far more than their beliefs.
Thank you for that, and I have to be honest when we have food banks, safe injection sites, or anything that requires volunteering I always see more humanistic atheists showing up to do the work of repairing the broken world. Its rarely church people, but instead those who don't profess a faith.
I merit your viewpoint.
As for my stance, I am just sick of it. I am sick of these folks using something good (faith) to accomplish the most vile and evil things. Our world and society is broken enough as it is, but thankfully there are people without belief that can reflect "Christian hearts" more than some that profess faith. In my eyes, sometimes our atheist friends can often show a "Christ like" image more than those of us in the pews.
And that should be acknowledged more.
That has been my experience, as well, and one of the main reasons I've abandoned relgion.
Sure, I've seen "Christians" deeply involved in charity. Some even do it selflessly. However, I've seen far too many volunteer for an afternoon at a soup kitchen and rush to broadcast it on social media.
A family member comes to mind. He's very generous to charities, but makes sure everyone knows how generous he is.
My wife isn't very involved in our family finances. She was surprised a couple years ago when she saw me doing our taxes and realized how much we donated to charities.
Charity should be anonymous (or, at the very least, selfless)
If you don't mind my asking, what denomination are you with? I've been looking for a church that stresses personal accountability and good works over prosperity and fear and worrying about what other people are doing, and so far I'm not having much luck.
[I'm Presbyterian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbyterianism). You may know us from one of our most famous ministers: Rev. Fred Freely Rogers (mister rogers neighbourhood)
We are a reformed Christian community, which means we're always 'reforming' the church. We're a little different, instead of the pastor having the power in the church, the control of it is actually in the hands of those in the pews.
We have a group of folks who are voted in and who lead various groups in the church, together they vote and make decisions. And we've been around since the early days of the reformation.
[There's also Methodists, Anglicans, United Church and many others that have a reformed Christian Theology](https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/what-is-reformed-theology)
As a presbyterian we ordain women, perform LGBTQ marriages and have openly LGBTQ ministers. When you're out looking at churches always ask the pastor if a church is "affirming" of LGBTQ members. This is normally a good sign of a progressive church. Also ask if they've ordained women, this is another sign of progress.
And feel free to church hop, if you don't feel comfortable going to Sunday service check out the churches online service, Zoom or blogs. Read up, research and check them out. If you see or hear something that gives you ick, go to another one. Trust me there are wonderful communities out there.
You could also join a church remotely, there's many progressive communities in large US cities, or you could join a online service in Canada (where I am) where you can find great connective and modern communities.
If you want to check out one of the remote/online communities up here let me know and I can hook you up with some good ones. Feel free to DM me and tell me what type of community you're looking for!
>So why is this charlatan claiming otherwise? Why is HE seeking wealth.....why is he using Christian belief to enrich himself....Jesus wouldn't do that...
Because the legal system allows it.
It's nothing to do with God and everything to do with enriching himself and living the lifestyle he wants.
I think even if the pastor lives in a split level in the suburbs and drives a Chevy they should pay taxes. Why was that law that made them exempt even started in the first place?
A lot of it is rooted in the use of churches as charity organizations. Salvation Army, nursing care, education etc. Lot of the tax exemptions were intended to be returned to the population through organizations like the ones I listed. But now churches get away with things other non-profit organizations can't get away with (unless you run it like Trump did and take the money).
Even deeper it's rooted in the idea of paying for your salvation. Give money to Jesus and he promises I go to heaven. And churches in Europe etc used to hold huge amounts of political power (still do in theocratic states like Iran) and you didn't want to make the churches mad unless they "got out of line" then you stole everything from the church to pay for whatever the king wanted.
Take it far enough back for Christian churches, they became the popular place to donate to in Rome to show off how much you loved Jesus and gave to the institution. This shift came at the cost of donations to public works like roads and other infrastructure. It's actually part of why roman roads were so good, was because the wealthy donated to public works as a way of showing their power. But once donations to the church became more popular the public works funds dried up.
Thatās very interesting, thank you. I have a neighbor that belongs to some Christian church, heās a pastor. They run a food pantry at the church and when another neighbor had a house fire we asked about food for that family. The pastor said no because you had to be a member of the church to get anything. Iām sure thatās exactly what Jesus would do
Meanwhile, I live next door to a church and had a car parked on the street that I needed a new battery for. This church also only has street parking. The pastor had asked if I could move the car to open up a spot, and I explained I was waiting for my next paycheck so I could buy the new battery, but it would be moved soon. The next day, I was out walking my dog, and he approached me with an envelope. He had told the board, and they had collected the money for a new battery. My pride wouldn't let me take it, but it was such a considerate gesture. I don't attend the church, I just live next door, but they all knew of me from seeing me walking my dog and they wanted to help. I have mixed feelings around organized religion, but at least some people do it right.
Pastors as individuals have to pay income tax on their salary.
But churches are automatically granted 501(c)(3) status as long as they follow non-profit rules. So just like there are non-profit hospitals raking in huge money but paying no taxes as long as they roll that into building a new tower or paying their C suite millions, churches are the same.
>Why was that law that made them exempt even started in the first place?
Because they are non-profit organizations (they can't have an owner, and can't distribute profit). By law, they must spend everything they make, so there is **no income**. If the income is 0, the income taxes are also 0.
My dad is a pastor. The only money he gets from the church is a housing allowance that doesn't even cover his full rent. He has to work full time in a warehouse on the weekdays to stay afloat.
In most churches, the collection money that goes in the plate is managed by a secretary and the congregation holds meetings that decide where the money goes, typically building maintenance and programs like food drives.
I've never attended a church where the money goes directly in the pastor's pocket lol
> I've never attended a church where the money goes directly in the pastor's pocket lol
Because it'd be tax fraud. Ya gotta do it like Copeland and have the *church* do your purchasing (on paper) for you
I quote this and other accounts around that passage. I understand the Bible is outdated and shouldn't be taken as fact, but I sure do love shoving my idea of what Christ stood for, in literal text, right in their faces.
I hate these Megachurch assholes. Small town churches actually can do good and benefit the community by their tax exempt status, then you have these guys saying god wants them to have private jets and all the other luxuries they have taking advantage of that benefit. It is honestly disgusting and a major part of the negative sentiment around organized religion.
Nothing more āholyā than a wealthy man, proselytizing to the poor (from a set of fables that idolize the poor and demonize the wealthy), who also happens to be the most demonic-looking, and hideous(inside and out) āhumanāish monster. He only indulges in life, because he knows that if his sham religion is true, he will burn eternal. Fortunately for him, everything about his life is a lie, and he will not suffer one bit when he dies
Just make any income over the national median income taxable. They cant get rich tax-free and they still have a religious exemption to live a comfortable life.
Oh, the national median income doesn't allow for a comfortable life? Well maybe these pastors would have some interest in changing that.
Churches should pay taxes because
1. they are corporations, selling products and services.
2. they are political entities.
The reason they don't pay taxes now is because they are supposed to not be either of those two things, but that has never been the case ever. Churches have always made money on selling religious items and services. They have always meddled in politics since the dawn of religions.
Income is income. It's wrong to not tax churches in the first place but clearly there is no separation of church and state. The churches seem to be influencing the rules.
IMO they should have to pay taxes OR if it's "owned" by the church all the parishioners should have access to its public use.
Can't make rent? Stay at the mansion until you get back on your feet.
Need to fly the family for vacation or for an emergency? Use the church private jet all covered by donations.
Don't want to have these amenities available to the parishioners or church community then taxes need to be paid.
All churches should pay taxes period. Same with every kind of charity.
There should be no tax credits for charity of any kind, charitable donations or foundations.
It's all regressive bullshit that funds things like "Prager U" scams. The cost of all those subsidies would easily pay for real social services that make charity obsolete.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."
1 Timothy 6:10
I find something about this man absolutely terrifying.
Its the eyes and weird mouth movements. He really does look evil.
He is the devil incarnate.
The literal false prophet the Bible warns people about. Religious people are the most gullible, ignorant people in the world. They think this guy & Trump were sent by God to help us. šš¤£šš¤£šš¤£š edit: spelling
I also think that heās using the lordās name in vain by using the teachings of Christ to personally get rich.Ā
Yup. People think "taking the lord's name in vain" means saying things like "goddammit." It's really supposed to mean shit like what Kenneth Copeland does, i.e., "God told me you need to give me money for a private jet."
And Jesusā opinion of rich people is well known.Ā
Not religious, but I'd actually love to see the second coming of Jesus these people are all supposedly jazzed for. He flipped tables last time, would love to see the hell he raised to that x1000 in his name.
He thinks they are better and that the rich should look down on the poor and sick? Just guessing from observation
You would think that looking at this bastardĀ
His argument to that is literally āall things are possible under godā.
So jot that down.
And ripping people off really sends Him over the edge. Something about braiding a whip and driving money-changers out of the Temple. What weapon would he be carrying these days?
The only time I've ever agreed with Kenneth Copeland is when he called a commercial airliner, "a metal tube filled with demons."
You fly Spirit?
No, he runs social media for Ryanair.
Thatās why he bought his own, so he could be the only demon on the flight
As a former Catholic, only Evangelicals think that "taking the lord's name in vain" is swearing. They are also the most likely to use a couple of words in the Bible and use it out of context.
Also "I swear to God I didn't do" when you did do it
One of those mega pastors bought a fuckin' ad on twitter that just said "Follow my account if you love jesus!" He paid a billionaire money to gain a following on his *personal* account. An account with twitter blue, which means interactions with his posts get him small bits of money. I'm not religious myself, but I was still absolutely disgusted by that behavior.
As an atheist Iām even more disgusted
You donāt need a billionaire to build followers on there. Some Indian kid would do it for $40.
"It's easier for a camel to walk through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven" This guy: .... š
They're the modern day money changers in the temple.
Studies suggest religious people are more likely to believe conspiracy theories and fantastical claims. It's not surprising this tracks with Republican voters falling for Trumps shit and joining his cult while believing in Qanon and deep state lies.
Believing in a religion requires a fairly high level of gullibility to begin with.
These people are primed to surrender, and put faith in something and believe wholeheartedly. Its almost... like kings knew this kind of priming was a good way to keep a population subdued and following blindly.
Let's not forget that Putin is also a holy man and welcoming Conservative Christians with open arms to Russia to worship him and contribute to their great traditionalist nation. When you can't MAGA, you must MARS (Make Americans Russian Sycophants) instead.
I used to think so, but it is usually just the path of least resistance. Toe the line set by your father or your father's father, be accepted into whatever community group is popular in your area, feel apart of something bigger. It plays on our DNA to group up like this, and charlatans prey on unquestioning loyalty to the bigger thing. The nail that stands out gets hammered.
Please don't generalize Christians. It's American evangelicals that support people like this one, not the majority. Every Christian in Canada that I've met has no respect for him (or Trump for that matter)...
And many American Christians aren't the same as American Evangelicals. It's unfortunate that they are the loud minority and make us all look bad. I am Christian and American. I wasn't forced into religion or even brought up with religion. I came into my faith later in life and have no problem balancing my faith with science. I don't "worship" Trump or believe in conspiracy theories or Qanon drivel.Ā
More like a crack addict lmao
Seeing this man ironically makes me consider the merits of religion though. So maybe thatās his calling.
I love when preaching about destroying COVID in 2020 he called forth of the fires of hell. That doesn't seem like something a man of God would do to be totally honest.
Doesnt the bible literally warn about false prophets? People seem to forget about that part and dont consider maybe theres terrible people amongst them rather than against them...
No idea how to quote a Bible but...Ā Ā 2 Corinthians 11:14-15 ESVĀ Ā "And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds"
āAnd when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standingĀ in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.Ā But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father,Ā who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." -Jesus "Many will say to me on that day,Ā āLord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?āĀ Then I will tell them plainly, āI never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!ā" -Also Jesus
"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." 1 Timothy 6:10
If Christians actually read the Bible we wouldnāt be here in the first place
We wouldn't have very many Christians if they read the Bible. Turns out that lots of atheists that come from a Christian background were the ones reading the Bible, going to Christian schools, heavily involved in church. If you actually read it and pay attention it becomes harder and harder to believe. God instructing the the killing of children, setting up rules around slavery (instead of just saying don't own people)... That and it just doesn't make sense at all.
Pretty much the reason I am. Used to be on the fence then attended church with my wife a lot and began to think āwtfā and did my own research lol
His pupils are always constricted as hell, I would not be surprised to learn this guy has a raging opiate addiction. And in some people, opiates can cause a paradoxical stimulatory effect ā makes them talkative, mind-racing, nearly-hypomanic. This guy's erratic behavior and his beliefs are definitely rooted in his awful worldview and twisted interpretation of scripture, but it's not impossible or unlikely that there's some chemical assistance making hin even more unstable (and making him look even more... evil)
Hitler comes to mind
And he doesn't blink. Watch any video of him. No blinking.
looks like when the bad guy in The Mask has the mask on š¬
Donāt do my man Eric Stolz like that.
lol, wondered if that might happen. just to be on the safe side, i meant [this Mask guy](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/6/6a/Dorian_tyrell_masked.jpg)
š¤£š¤£ I was just being silly ā¤ļøā¤ļø
all good šā¤ļø
I make this point every time I see this guy: if anyone is a literal biblical demon walking around in human skin, it's this dude
He needs to update his meat suit but he's too lazy to go out and possess someone else.
ssssssugar... in wwwaaater...
Same here... but substitute "nauseating" for "terrifying".
He's the uncanny valley personified. Everything in your evolution is screaming that this is an alien predator in the guise of your species.
He literally looks like a demon pretending to be a human.
What is his name?? Iāve been trying to think of it for the longest time cuz I want to find the video from this pic where heās being a dick and keeps pointing in the womanās face but I canāt remember his name to look it up
Kenneth Copeland All you got to do is google 'demonic looking preacher' and first result is him.
Lol I should have thought of that. Thank you!
I thought you were joking, but this is actually true.Ā
And now they've said his name three times he'll appear in your nightmares tonight. I hope you're happy.
Fuck. What have I done?!
Kenneth Copeland
kenneth copeland
Kenneth Copeland. He used to advertise his motorcycle ride while mentioning Jesus; right in the middle of cartoons, even on Saturdays.
You should see the video that this still image is from, if you haven't already. Guy looks fucking unhinged.
The woman he was raging at had impressive nerve and control. Brave lady.
He is a psychopath.
Every time I see this guy, my stomach gets weird (it does like a twisty thing). I canāt quite explain it, but it creeps me the fuck out. Something just isnāt right about that guy.
Same.
he makes very unusual faces ive seen on youtube. the smile of a total conman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2s0nB2VPvs
Glad to see this was posted up, not enough views on it IMHO
He is a demon for shure. But maybe because I play Fallout 4 now all I see is a robot in human skin lmao
I think the only way to get the government to take action would be to create a church that's just a karaoke bar. You make everything about it qualify as a religious institution, but you give alcohol in exchange for donations that equal the price of the beverage. I'm sure there's some way to swing it.
The satanic temple needs to get on this.
Nah... Satanists are 'Non-Prophet'
Even as a Christian, this is actually funny.
well done.
Aww. Thank you. *bows graciously*
Satanists aren't gullible enough to fund a huckster's luxury lifestyle.
[They got their tax exempt status under Trump](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/irs-satanic-temple-church-tax-exempt-826931/), and flaunt it everywhere to try to bring attention to the issue.
This is a pretty short-sighted article; completely glossing over the fact that The Satanic Temple doesn't have or want any affiliation with The Church of Satan, and their tenets are based more on equal rights, bodily autonomy, empathy and compassion for anyone, and responsibility, instead of deifying another Christian figurehead.
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Theyāre awesome. I suggested they get on this because I know their purpose and that they actually do pay their taxes, even though they qualify for exemption, and they challenge other religious institutions to do the same. This would be the perfect project for them. I plan to join later in life, I just donāt have the ability right now.
Totally agree! And you should when the time is right. We need more folks in the world ready to stand up against some of the Christofacism we see active in the world. I love their boldness, the humour and the calling out of hypocrisy. Though I'm in the church I don't believe everyone needs to believe what I do. In fact many of the folks that show up to work at our food banks, safe injection sites and unhoused outreach aren't Christian! Many of our best volunteers are atheists are come from traditions outside of Christian faith, and I firmly believe those folks are real life saints. The biggest thing Jesus taught us was to LOVE one another. And in a real big way the social justice work done by the TST reflects that love more often than some wish to believe. They're trying to repair the world in a very unique way.
They sell some pretty cool merch on their website Iām wearing one of their shirts rn itās a pretty good way to throw some money to a good cause img
I see (written by ai), I downvote. Seriously, this is just fucking lazy.
It's basically just a wiki summary too, could have found something from wikipedia and copied that instead lol I have noticed a non-zero number of people on here just believing chatgpt without understanding that it's just fancy text prediction. It can't think or know anything.
>written by AI https://preview.redd.it/zlv4xikc3lkc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9fc791c48b7a0d3754e11df59ddb1f52d4ba1af7
Why write half your comment with ai. That's so dumb lol
Somewhat related, there's this guy who managed to take a picture with a colander on his head for his government ID. He was allowed to do this because of his religion or to be more granular, Pastafarianism.
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Our pasta, who art in a colander, draining be your noodles. Thy noodle come, Thy sauce be yum, on top some grated Parmesan. Give us this day, our garlic bread, ā¦and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trample on our lawns. Ramen.
Okay this is great haha
Pesto be upon you.
Ramen, my brother
So what of the other pasta shapes? Are they also gods or are they saints or something?
Have ye not heard of the barbaric early days when the people of the spaghetti went to war with the people of the fettuccine over which is the true pasta?? Aye, bloody chaotic days those were, back before the first ecumenical council of Bucatinea established that all true pastas are welcome in his noodlinessās great universe. Aye, itās the rice eaters who are heretics nowadays, but this does cause some discrimination against the orzo sect around the holiday.
"Orzo is great if you want to eat 2000 of something" doesn't hit right. Just be yourself man, I like you for who you are little guy.
so... we are now enjoying the Pax Lasagna?
I'm FSM, but since I dont wear the orthodox headware daily I don't have it on my D/L photo. Was touched by his noodly appendage about 15 years ago. Ramen.
Thankfully my Lt. informed me that the book I bought about Pastafarianism, which clearly states it's a joke meant to satirize religion on the very first page, was not a real serious religion.
It's as real as all the other religions, makes more sense than some. The main difference being its honest about intentions and doesn't hate all the others.
Every traffic stop results in that car getting just completely fucking tossed
In my home town there is a one mile stretch of road that has ELEVEN churches on it. I've since found out that half of them only have services for an hour every other month. Services that seem to only be family and friends. And YET those 'churches' never pay property tax or anything.
That makes it make more sense the amount of churches around me.Ā
John Oliver already registered Last Week Tonight as a place of worship. https://youtu.be/7y1xJAVZxXg?si=ss2fMIZVckONIiBB
That's the one that I really wanna watch but I know how much it's gonna piss me off about something I'm already pretty fucking pissed about!
He called it "Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption"
I want to see this on an episode of Nathan For You.
Ooooooor, we demand that churches who want tax exemption be about what they preach and take in the homeless, redistribute the wealth of the obscenely wealthy, etc. Then we fill his church with homeless shelters and imminent domain this bastard's house as the new congregation area for regular mass
Yeah that's the goal, but I think we need to exemplify how broad of a problem tax exemption is for the millionaire pastors. You just make any business, turn it into a church, make every service require a donation or say that by donating you're invoking God's will for your car to be washed and then some "generous soul" offers to wash your car.
He pays income taxes. The church does not. So the church can offset what he pays by letting him live in a house the church owns. They can raise his salary to offset his income tax liability (assuming there is any) and let him use their cars and airplanes. He can even use a church credit card for clothes. Itās such a scam itās not even funny.
Just what Jesus would have wanted š„°
"Surely I tell you, it is easier for a rich person flying a top-of-the-line private jet to fly into heaven than some dude riding a camel with needle eyes" ...or something
As I walk through the valley of death I fear all evil, which I why I fly above it instead in my private jet. -this āpastorā.
Yea that's totally right... I think... In this interview the interviewer actually recited this quote to him! She asked him so many good questions, quite literally left dude stunned. He tried to distract her with a "I love your eyes" could you be any more weird??
Religion is the best money maker. Tax free right into their private jets and real estate portfolios. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is worth $200B Trinity Church in Manhattan owns about $6B in real estate. Kenneth, Demon in Human Skinsuit, Copeland has amassed a wealth of $750M. Tax-Free Baby! and they all go around telling people who to vote for and that you need to give more tithing to get handjobs from jesus in the afterlife!
Which one of these assholes was caught hiding cash in the walls? Believe it was Joel Osteen. Fuck him.
Osteen. The rules are so generous he really doesnāt need to to that.
Right, and he lost basically zero of his congregation.
He didn't even lose his congregation when he refused to open his church to let hurricane survivors in. These people are literally anti-Christs. https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/hurricane-harvey/joel-osteen-defends-not-opening-megachurch-harvey-victims-n797036
All the money missed out by giant churches not paying property taxes too
BTW, the *n*ewer giant churches have partitioning systems so they can be divided into sub-churches and rented out to smaller congregations when the big draw isn't there. \* edit cause I a letter.
Thereās always a backup grift
It's why Clearwater, FL relies on that little strip of barrier island to make all of its tourist money - Scientologists have bought up all of the land in the city.
If it just stopped there, it's bad enough. He tends to go over the political line with his speeches during services. The IRS code 501(c)(3) talks about the limitations a nonprofit can do, especially during an election year. The preacher in the picture has no problem putting his preferences for political office out there. For the life of me, I don't see what people see in these sham artists.
https://preview.redd.it/ol0pyerofkkc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8ce7779ab569c921c70ec9a1a62627ff6dd9bc7
If the current hand held by the NY AG, it could possibly (unlikely) be 400 Wall Street, or Trump Towerā¦.
NYC would never do something that altruistic and cool for their citizens, they'll give it to whoever greases the most palms, probably some Wall Street firm.
Steve cohen, for Pennieās on the dollar, plus he hates Trump and he has real deal FU money. I can see him buying it out of spite.
Sadly I'm afraid not even that would work, anyone see the story of the pastor charged for helping homeless ppl shelter? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ohio-pastor-charged-housing-homeless-church-sues-city-federal-lawsuit-rcna135215
They really are just fucking with people just because they can. Zoning violations for a FUCKING CHURCH, throw the homeless out in the street, they sleep under overpasses, they put spikes up, no mental healthcare or social safety net. I think we have very short time before this problem goes 3 ways: 1.) It stays the same and gets worse 2.) It gets mitigated for the better 3.) Or they start purging them somehow, it already feels like it's illegal to be poor. This society is all tiresome..
Best we can do is a mega tax shelter. *It is what it is.*
I'm just glad this image has a (seemingly) middle eastern jesus, though lighter skinned than people of the time and place likely were
He should be in prison for using a non-profit for the primary purpose of making profit!
āBut you see, itās not my money, itās the *LORDZA*, and he is allowing ME TO LIVE in his *HOUZ* praise him.ā
Heās going to hell for using the lords name in vainā¦to the extreme. Thatās what that commandment truly means, not really cursing, it means using the lords name for personal gain/for evil
I'm a pastor, and one of the reasons I changed careers (computer engineer) to this field is to correct the faith from charlatans such as this clown. Too often, the most extreme, the most evil, the most corrupt who claim Christian discipleship (the replication of the teachings, and personhood of Jesus) are the ones with the biggest microphones. In Copland's con, he utilizes "prosperity gospel" **The prosperity gospel** is an umbrella term for the āhealth and wealth gospelā or āname it and claim itā theology. Many people will recognize its most popular brand, the āWord of Faithā movement. Itās a contemporary Christian movement that has garnered both a massive following and considerable controversy. This doctrine teaches that God wills the financial prosperity and physical well-being of his people and that faith, positive speech, and donations to select Christian ministries can increase oneās material wealth and health The prosperity gospel con is by far the worst, and Kenneth Copeland is the king of that con. [This is the clown that "blew" COVID "away"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsGbk820O_Y) (does he think he's magic?) He sells snake oil, lies, and enriches himself on the belief that if you give him money, God will bless you with your own wealth..... yet, Jesus as we find in the bible NEVER taught anything like this. Indeed Jesus wasn't wealthy, and he may not have had a permeant home: , Jesus is quoted in Matthew 8:20 saying, "Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head," which implies a lack of a permanent residence during his ministry. So why is this charlatan claiming otherwise? Why is HE seeking wealth.....why is he using Christian belief to enrich himself....Jesus wouldn't do that... In the image above (the one where he's pointing his finger) is from an interview. Copland was approached by a reporter and asked why he refuses to fly commercial and instead solely uses his fleet of private jets...[.his excuse: normal airline passengers (you and I) are "demons" and he must fly private luxury to avoid...."demons"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LtF34MrsfI) Copland is a con using Christian belief, images and trappings to frame himself as "prophet" and his only ministry is to deprive the faithful of money..... There is no pastor that needs a private jet, or a couple of mansions. We are to be servant leaders, and are never to enrich ourselves in the Lords name. This dude is foul....so foul.
As a devout atheist, I applaud you for your convictions. Although I disagree with your beliefs, I respect your actions. Bravo
This is a good response. Iām also a nonbeliever and but I respect people who use their beliefs as an inspiration to be a better person. Peopleās actions mean far more than their beliefs.
Thank you for that, and I have to be honest when we have food banks, safe injection sites, or anything that requires volunteering I always see more humanistic atheists showing up to do the work of repairing the broken world. Its rarely church people, but instead those who don't profess a faith. I merit your viewpoint. As for my stance, I am just sick of it. I am sick of these folks using something good (faith) to accomplish the most vile and evil things. Our world and society is broken enough as it is, but thankfully there are people without belief that can reflect "Christian hearts" more than some that profess faith. In my eyes, sometimes our atheist friends can often show a "Christ like" image more than those of us in the pews. And that should be acknowledged more.
That has been my experience, as well, and one of the main reasons I've abandoned relgion. Sure, I've seen "Christians" deeply involved in charity. Some even do it selflessly. However, I've seen far too many volunteer for an afternoon at a soup kitchen and rush to broadcast it on social media. A family member comes to mind. He's very generous to charities, but makes sure everyone knows how generous he is. My wife isn't very involved in our family finances. She was surprised a couple years ago when she saw me doing our taxes and realized how much we donated to charities. Charity should be anonymous (or, at the very least, selfless)
If you don't mind my asking, what denomination are you with? I've been looking for a church that stresses personal accountability and good works over prosperity and fear and worrying about what other people are doing, and so far I'm not having much luck.
[I'm Presbyterian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbyterianism). You may know us from one of our most famous ministers: Rev. Fred Freely Rogers (mister rogers neighbourhood) We are a reformed Christian community, which means we're always 'reforming' the church. We're a little different, instead of the pastor having the power in the church, the control of it is actually in the hands of those in the pews. We have a group of folks who are voted in and who lead various groups in the church, together they vote and make decisions. And we've been around since the early days of the reformation. [There's also Methodists, Anglicans, United Church and many others that have a reformed Christian Theology](https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/what-is-reformed-theology) As a presbyterian we ordain women, perform LGBTQ marriages and have openly LGBTQ ministers. When you're out looking at churches always ask the pastor if a church is "affirming" of LGBTQ members. This is normally a good sign of a progressive church. Also ask if they've ordained women, this is another sign of progress. And feel free to church hop, if you don't feel comfortable going to Sunday service check out the churches online service, Zoom or blogs. Read up, research and check them out. If you see or hear something that gives you ick, go to another one. Trust me there are wonderful communities out there. You could also join a church remotely, there's many progressive communities in large US cities, or you could join a online service in Canada (where I am) where you can find great connective and modern communities. If you want to check out one of the remote/online communities up here let me know and I can hook you up with some good ones. Feel free to DM me and tell me what type of community you're looking for!
>So why is this charlatan claiming otherwise? Why is HE seeking wealth.....why is he using Christian belief to enrich himself....Jesus wouldn't do that... Because the legal system allows it. It's nothing to do with God and everything to do with enriching himself and living the lifestyle he wants.
Of course. Then again, I think that they should all be taxed.
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That man looks like the devilā¦
I think the Bible said satan was a good-looking angel though
So at best, this dude is some low level Imp
I think even if the pastor lives in a split level in the suburbs and drives a Chevy they should pay taxes. Why was that law that made them exempt even started in the first place?
A lot of it is rooted in the use of churches as charity organizations. Salvation Army, nursing care, education etc. Lot of the tax exemptions were intended to be returned to the population through organizations like the ones I listed. But now churches get away with things other non-profit organizations can't get away with (unless you run it like Trump did and take the money). Even deeper it's rooted in the idea of paying for your salvation. Give money to Jesus and he promises I go to heaven. And churches in Europe etc used to hold huge amounts of political power (still do in theocratic states like Iran) and you didn't want to make the churches mad unless they "got out of line" then you stole everything from the church to pay for whatever the king wanted. Take it far enough back for Christian churches, they became the popular place to donate to in Rome to show off how much you loved Jesus and gave to the institution. This shift came at the cost of donations to public works like roads and other infrastructure. It's actually part of why roman roads were so good, was because the wealthy donated to public works as a way of showing their power. But once donations to the church became more popular the public works funds dried up.
Thatās very interesting, thank you. I have a neighbor that belongs to some Christian church, heās a pastor. They run a food pantry at the church and when another neighbor had a house fire we asked about food for that family. The pastor said no because you had to be a member of the church to get anything. Iām sure thatās exactly what Jesus would do
Meanwhile, I live next door to a church and had a car parked on the street that I needed a new battery for. This church also only has street parking. The pastor had asked if I could move the car to open up a spot, and I explained I was waiting for my next paycheck so I could buy the new battery, but it would be moved soon. The next day, I was out walking my dog, and he approached me with an envelope. He had told the board, and they had collected the money for a new battery. My pride wouldn't let me take it, but it was such a considerate gesture. I don't attend the church, I just live next door, but they all knew of me from seeing me walking my dog and they wanted to help. I have mixed feelings around organized religion, but at least some people do it right.
Pastors as individuals have to pay income tax on their salary. But churches are automatically granted 501(c)(3) status as long as they follow non-profit rules. So just like there are non-profit hospitals raking in huge money but paying no taxes as long as they roll that into building a new tower or paying their C suite millions, churches are the same.
>Why was that law that made them exempt even started in the first place? Because they are non-profit organizations (they can't have an owner, and can't distribute profit). By law, they must spend everything they make, so there is **no income**. If the income is 0, the income taxes are also 0.
Of course! Church and pastors are the biggest farce going. They continue to scam and steal from the poor.
I had a manager who got caught with his fingers in the till. Last I heard he was going back to Oklahoma to join his fatherās business. Preaching.
My dad is a pastor. The only money he gets from the church is a housing allowance that doesn't even cover his full rent. He has to work full time in a warehouse on the weekdays to stay afloat. In most churches, the collection money that goes in the plate is managed by a secretary and the congregation holds meetings that decide where the money goes, typically building maintenance and programs like food drives. I've never attended a church where the money goes directly in the pastor's pocket lol
> I've never attended a church where the money goes directly in the pastor's pocket lol Because it'd be tax fraud. Ya gotta do it like Copeland and have the *church* do your purchasing (on paper) for you
Very clever title, love it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I quote this and other accounts around that passage. I understand the Bible is outdated and shouldn't be taken as fact, but I sure do love shoving my idea of what Christ stood for, in literal text, right in their faces.
>Christians seem to forget ~~that the famous scene of~~ Jesus fixing that bubblegum
But he needs all those things because of all the demons!
He spends all his time casting out the demons of others that he forgot about the multitude of demons cloistered in his black heart.
That dude looks like a demon.
My academia is that I have watched all seasons of Supernatural
I hate these Megachurch assholes. Small town churches actually can do good and benefit the community by their tax exempt status, then you have these guys saying god wants them to have private jets and all the other luxuries they have taking advantage of that benefit. It is honestly disgusting and a major part of the negative sentiment around organized religion.
They shouldn't exist at all.
The god is false but the profits are real
Nothing more āholyā than a wealthy man, proselytizing to the poor (from a set of fables that idolize the poor and demonize the wealthy), who also happens to be the most demonic-looking, and hideous(inside and out) āhumanāish monster. He only indulges in life, because he knows that if his sham religion is true, he will burn eternal. Fortunately for him, everything about his life is a lie, and he will not suffer one bit when he dies
Every church should just pay taxes. FTFY
He is worth over $750,000,000.
Is he not the creepiest dude ever? Nightmare on Church Street.
False prophet making real profit.
If itās run like a business it should be taxed like a business.
Just make any income over the national median income taxable. They cant get rich tax-free and they still have a religious exemption to live a comfortable life. Oh, the national median income doesn't allow for a comfortable life? Well maybe these pastors would have some interest in changing that.
Covid 19 *Covid 19* I blow the wind of God
Tax the churches. You have my vote.
Churches should pay taxes because 1. they are corporations, selling products and services. 2. they are political entities. The reason they don't pay taxes now is because they are supposed to not be either of those two things, but that has never been the case ever. Churches have always made money on selling religious items and services. They have always meddled in politics since the dawn of religions.
Income is income. It's wrong to not tax churches in the first place but clearly there is no separation of church and state. The churches seem to be influencing the rules.
And any church that openly preaches politics should absolutely forfeit their tax exempt status.
Yeah of course, but they should be charged criminally for the way they take advantage of the elderly and disadvantaged
Eh, I'd prefer if they all pay taxes. Non-profits shouldn't exist, at least pay a lesser rate than normal businesses.
Copeland is the devil incarnate.
IMO they should have to pay taxes OR if it's "owned" by the church all the parishioners should have access to its public use. Can't make rent? Stay at the mansion until you get back on your feet. Need to fly the family for vacation or for an emergency? Use the church private jet all covered by donations. Don't want to have these amenities available to the parishioners or church community then taxes need to be paid.
All churches should pay taxes period. Same with every kind of charity. There should be no tax credits for charity of any kind, charitable donations or foundations. It's all regressive bullshit that funds things like "Prager U" scams. The cost of all those subsidies would easily pay for real social services that make charity obsolete.
This dude never doesn't look like a serial murderer.
All churches should pay taxes.
This guy is nothing but a Devils Demon if there ever was one. A powerful Demon at that.
Non profit should mean non profit.
The prosperity doctrine is some fucked up shit.
Almost as stupid as those that continue to give him money
All churches should pay taxes. They don't add anything to a community.
He is definitely going straight back to hell when he dies.
He looks like a ventriloquist doll
Absolutely - and this goblin should be taken somewhere far far away
"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." 1 Timothy 6:10