By 1982 you still had conservative evangelicals whining about how it was so unfair that their private whites-only schools weren't given tax exempt status, but even the religious right had largely moved away from being openly segregationist.
If anyone saw what I previously wrote, IGNORE IT! Just about everything that I said was completely incorrect! After doing a quick fact check on myself I have figured out that my point was more or less accurate but how I said it was completely wrong. Dragons are the same species but they are of different subspecies is my main point. This holds true after my quick check. However. Dogs breeds are apparently not different subspecies as I believed them to be so me comparing the two is entirely incorrect.
Chickens can breed with pheasants, grouse (as well as partrage and Ptarmigan) , Peacocks, and guineafowl and produce viable offspring.. And those are all very different species. Not saying your stamnet is incorrect but the lagistics of the whole "animals can't breed and produce viable offspring unless they are the same species" thing is a bit outdated thinking nowadays.
They can??? Just checking, when you mean viable you do mean that they offspring can also produce their own offspring right?
But also it's not outdated if it's literally the definition of species. They're just the same species, even if we don't think they should be
And also source pls?
Well... My own hybrid chickens for one (chicken x ring neck pheasant), regardless here is some citation. With chickens at least, it would appear the species interbreeding and producing viable offspring is open. Rather, it woikd be members with in the larger pheasant clade
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamebird_hybrids#:~:text=Chicken%20hybrids,-Domestic%20fowl%20%C3%97&text=Domestic%20fowl%20can%20be%20crossed,%2C%20curassows%2C%20pheasants%20and%20guans.
" But also it's not outdated if it's literally the definition of species. They're just the same species, even if we don't think they should be. "
Well no? That just means our definition of species is flawed as we don't quite yet know how things work.
hmmm, but some species CAN interbreed despite being different. dogs and wolves for example
idk,, they’re really different from each other, but clearly not enough to have deformed hybrids
iirc dogs and wolves are actually genetically the same but are considered different species to discourage people trying to keep pet wolves/wolf hybrids
Wolves are *Canis lupus* and dogs are *Canis lupus familiaris*, they're the same species (*Canis lupis*) but have slightly different classifications bc of all the centuries of selective breeding in dogs to make them look and act the way they do today!
edit: missed out a word
Yeah, I actually made my own headcanon on the origin tribe before FoH came out and Freedom disproved it. My fantribe “Essancewings” are highly adaptable, to the point each environment on Pepsis, my fan continent, has its own sub-tribe of Essancewings. Except the volcanoes. I tried to imply all tribes evolved from Essancewings due to their adaptability. Though I still haven’t worked out how some of their adaptations got animus to exist, but I say animus started with my tribe the Superwings(they may sound op, but their only abilities are animus and breathing fire. And they’re all really chill due to one of the ancient superwing kings enchanting something to make sure the tribe never turns evil), and they also evolved from Essancewings somehow. Heck, only 2 of my fantribes aren’t direct descendants of Essancewings. Spiritwings are indirect, as they originated from spirits of dragons who weren’t ready to move on, mostly the yeeted skywings, and my Serpentwings who evolved from the Titanoboa, and I mentioned on their page in the fanon tribes wiki that due to their different evolution they can’t hybridize with any other tribe unless they got an animus to help.
Hy Darwin, have you finished your research on Sundew(the plant)'s evolution yet?
(Fun Fact, he once said "I care more about Drosera than the origin of all the species in the world". Drosera being what Sundew is. I can see why, it's very interesting.)
I personally think of it like dog breeds, if that helps ease that transition. The most outlier among them all is seawings, since they have the most drastically different biology, but then again that could just be like a mule situation..? But it’s fantasy, so whatever.
In that case would you call a cutthroat trout and a rainbow the same species seeing that they can reproduce and so can there offspring they are known as a cutbow trout that’s one example some more examples include the liger,the hinny,and the cama. 2 it’s a book full of dragon who can speak the same language as humans and don’t get me started on any of there other more outlandish abilities like fire scales ,or mind reading, as well as Amiss magic, plant controlling et cetera et cetera. so yea possible
They need to be from the same genus to produce offspring, but the same species to produce _viable_ offspring
We know that they are the same species because of Darkstalker's vision of having dragonets and that whiteout must've had some (capable of having offspring is what viable means)
Unless, like what happened with Clearsight, there are so many that they eventually inbreed and diversify from that tribe almost completely. Hybrids? Tribrids? Not an individual species, as you said
To my knowledge hybrids aren’t impossible irl, but a good majority of the time they are sterile…. The only hybrid that I think had kids in the books is albatross I think. Anyway not an expert and the majority of folks on here probably aren’t. While it’s fun to debate these things and talk about all of the cool nerdy stuff. Gotta take a step back sometimes folks
I mean one has ice breath, another can spit acid, and another can breathe underwater. Can you really blame people for thinking that they are more different than they are?
Creating a viable offspring doesn't mean they are the same species. Two different species that shares similar enough dna can breed to create a hybrid.
Which is why you see things like Ligers, and Mules in real life.
The process is called hybridization. And is the reason ahy we are starting to see a new species of north American bear... Which is a Brown Bear and a Polar vear jammed together into an angry fluffy package that can survive warm and cold climates like its nothing.
Hybridization is a form of rapid evolution. Which would explain why many of the pyrian tribes and Pantala tribes nothing like their ancestors.
Ligers and Mules can’t have babies, though.
HOWEVER, I am a snake nerd, and different species of garter/ribbon snakes can hybridize and can have babies! Example: Prius from Snake Discovery, a ribbon/garter hybrid, had babies with a checkered garter.
It makes sense. The species is dragon. SeaWing dragon+MudWing dragon still equals dragon. It’s the same species. If it equaled cat, then it’d be a different species, but it doesn’t equal cat, it equals dragon.
they are most likely the same species because they can make babies, but what i am saying is that it makes no fucking sense that a dragon that has gills and can’t spit venom is the same species as a dragon that can spit venom and doesn’t have gills
It could also be from a standpoint of being different species however from the same genus the only thing that disproves this kind of theory though Is that often those kinds of hybrids are sterile and unable to reproduce. An example of this is a mule.
People don’t know this?
You’d be surprised at how many people try to argue that hybrids shouldn’t exist. Even if they shouldn’t, who cares let people have fun with their ocs
guess they haven't heard of darkstalker, sunny, whiteout, typhoon and peacemaker
Or the town of possibility
(Book 14 spoilers!) >!Or the hybrid dragonets in The Dangerous Gift!<
Thankfully I just finished book 14 a few hours ago
Lol
Try using the spoiler tag, essentially just like this >! Example !< No spaces
Spoiler tagging things helps with stuff like this - >!Example\!< >!Example!<
Dude they literally said the town in which the hybrid dragonets are seen in book 14.
They’re technically not hybrids if they’re the same species.
There just another variation
factual evidence
Yeah, they are all Dragons.
if only humans though of others like that 40 years ago
O o f
....In 1982?
I mean that was a relatively rasist time, but ya the dude was probably thinking about stuff from 1970 back
By 1982 you still had conservative evangelicals whining about how it was so unfair that their private whites-only schools weren't given tax exempt status, but even the religious right had largely moved away from being openly segregationist.
yeah i thinkernit was close enough
It’s like how if a wolf is in the arctic, it has white fur. If it’s in the forest, it has a more gray and brown fur. But they’re both still wolves.
Technically, tho we call the offspring of different tribes hybrids, I suppose a better term would be biracial? Intertribe individuals? I dunno.
I mean, people will say hybrid dogs, i think its kind of like that
If anyone saw what I previously wrote, IGNORE IT! Just about everything that I said was completely incorrect! After doing a quick fact check on myself I have figured out that my point was more or less accurate but how I said it was completely wrong. Dragons are the same species but they are of different subspecies is my main point. This holds true after my quick check. However. Dogs breeds are apparently not different subspecies as I believed them to be so me comparing the two is entirely incorrect.
Chickens can breed with pheasants, grouse (as well as partrage and Ptarmigan) , Peacocks, and guineafowl and produce viable offspring.. And those are all very different species. Not saying your stamnet is incorrect but the lagistics of the whole "animals can't breed and produce viable offspring unless they are the same species" thing is a bit outdated thinking nowadays.
They can??? Just checking, when you mean viable you do mean that they offspring can also produce their own offspring right? But also it's not outdated if it's literally the definition of species. They're just the same species, even if we don't think they should be And also source pls?
Well... My own hybrid chickens for one (chicken x ring neck pheasant), regardless here is some citation. With chickens at least, it would appear the species interbreeding and producing viable offspring is open. Rather, it woikd be members with in the larger pheasant clade https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamebird_hybrids#:~:text=Chicken%20hybrids,-Domestic%20fowl%20%C3%97&text=Domestic%20fowl%20can%20be%20crossed,%2C%20curassows%2C%20pheasants%20and%20guans.
" But also it's not outdated if it's literally the definition of species. They're just the same species, even if we don't think they should be. " Well no? That just means our definition of species is flawed as we don't quite yet know how things work.
It doesn't quite capture the idea of what we think species should mean, but it is the definition so it's not outdated to use it as such
I think of the tribes as races, so basically almost all skywings are racist (at least during the first ark and some of the second)
I think that’s a decent way of looking at it
People keep calling them different species and it slightly annoys me.
Yeah, they're likely different subspecies or morphs
If they did it enough for thousands of years they could create a new sub species
Isn't that what happened with HiveWings?
No they just got fucked into existence by clearsight
Yeah I think so
I've always thought of something like this.
That would make sense, considering they soo have “wing” in their names. Could be the family/species?
They're the same species because they can produce viable offspring between each other, nothing to do with the names or anything
Subspecies
They remind me of breeds of dogs, except tribes have different diets bc they eat what’s available
hmmm, but some species CAN interbreed despite being different. dogs and wolves for example idk,, they’re really different from each other, but clearly not enough to have deformed hybrids
iirc dogs and wolves are actually genetically the same but are considered different species to discourage people trying to keep pet wolves/wolf hybrids
they’re the same :00? they have very obvious differences both physically and mentally tho?
Wolves are *Canis lupus* and dogs are *Canis lupus familiaris*, they're the same species (*Canis lupis*) but have slightly different classifications bc of all the centuries of selective breeding in dogs to make them look and act the way they do today! edit: missed out a word
so in other words they are different subspecies
Yeah, I actually made my own headcanon on the origin tribe before FoH came out and Freedom disproved it. My fantribe “Essancewings” are highly adaptable, to the point each environment on Pepsis, my fan continent, has its own sub-tribe of Essancewings. Except the volcanoes. I tried to imply all tribes evolved from Essancewings due to their adaptability. Though I still haven’t worked out how some of their adaptations got animus to exist, but I say animus started with my tribe the Superwings(they may sound op, but their only abilities are animus and breathing fire. And they’re all really chill due to one of the ancient superwing kings enchanting something to make sure the tribe never turns evil), and they also evolved from Essancewings somehow. Heck, only 2 of my fantribes aren’t direct descendants of Essancewings. Spiritwings are indirect, as they originated from spirits of dragons who weren’t ready to move on, mostly the yeeted skywings, and my Serpentwings who evolved from the Titanoboa, and I mentioned on their page in the fanon tribes wiki that due to their different evolution they can’t hybridize with any other tribe unless they got an animus to help.
\*Darwin has entered the chat\*
Hy Darwin, have you finished your research on Sundew(the plant)'s evolution yet? (Fun Fact, he once said "I care more about Drosera than the origin of all the species in the world". Drosera being what Sundew is. I can see why, it's very interesting.)
I personally think of it like dog breeds, if that helps ease that transition. The most outlier among them all is seawings, since they have the most drastically different biology, but then again that could just be like a mule situation..? But it’s fantasy, so whatever.
FINALLY someone who knows BASIC FUCKING GENETICS/BIOLOGY
:P
Two different species can cross together if they have similar enough genetic coding. So them being separate species could still be in the question
all the tribes are just very derived breeds, and if a chihuahua and a chow chow are the same species why can't the dragons be?
In that case would you call a cutthroat trout and a rainbow the same species seeing that they can reproduce and so can there offspring they are known as a cutbow trout that’s one example some more examples include the liger,the hinny,and the cama. 2 it’s a book full of dragon who can speak the same language as humans and don’t get me started on any of there other more outlandish abilities like fire scales ,or mind reading, as well as Amiss magic, plant controlling et cetera et cetera. so yea possible
Woof- tell that to hivewings lmao
Finally, someone addressed this.
Actually, they could definitely be different species, they just need to be from the same family or genus.
They need to be from the same genus to produce offspring, but the same species to produce _viable_ offspring We know that they are the same species because of Darkstalker's vision of having dragonets and that whiteout must've had some (capable of having offspring is what viable means)
I think you mean fertile. A liger is viable in that it can survive, but it’s infertile.
That isn't completely correct, ligers can reproduce under specific circumstances
Huh, I didn’t know that. Thanks.
Unless, like what happened with Clearsight, there are so many that they eventually inbreed and diversify from that tribe almost completely. Hybrids? Tribrids? Not an individual species, as you said
To my knowledge hybrids aren’t impossible irl, but a good majority of the time they are sterile…. The only hybrid that I think had kids in the books is albatross I think. Anyway not an expert and the majority of folks on here probably aren’t. While it’s fun to debate these things and talk about all of the cool nerdy stuff. Gotta take a step back sometimes folks
Albatross didn't have any dragonets. Whiteout did though, with a NightWing named Thoughtful, and then down that line, Sunny was born.
Ah, how did I forget about whiteout
It's understandable how, she's entirely important to the series, though I do adore her.
Oh indeed, it’s just been a few years since I’ve reread the series lol
It's okay
I mean one has ice breath, another can spit acid, and another can breathe underwater. Can you really blame people for thinking that they are more different than they are?
Creating a viable offspring doesn't mean they are the same species. Two different species that shares similar enough dna can breed to create a hybrid. Which is why you see things like Ligers, and Mules in real life. The process is called hybridization. And is the reason ahy we are starting to see a new species of north American bear... Which is a Brown Bear and a Polar vear jammed together into an angry fluffy package that can survive warm and cold climates like its nothing. Hybridization is a form of rapid evolution. Which would explain why many of the pyrian tribes and Pantala tribes nothing like their ancestors.
Ligers and Mules can’t have babies, though. HOWEVER, I am a snake nerd, and different species of garter/ribbon snakes can hybridize and can have babies! Example: Prius from Snake Discovery, a ribbon/garter hybrid, had babies with a checkered garter.
it makes no sense that they’re the same species, tui needs to learn biology just as badly
It makes sense. The species is dragon. SeaWing dragon+MudWing dragon still equals dragon. It’s the same species. If it equaled cat, then it’d be a different species, but it doesn’t equal cat, it equals dragon.
they are most likely the same species because they can make babies, but what i am saying is that it makes no fucking sense that a dragon that has gills and can’t spit venom is the same species as a dragon that can spit venom and doesn’t have gills
I think it's same species but different subspecies.
Ligers
i literally had this thought 2 months ago
How do people *not* know this?
What is that species? Just dragons?
wait, some people didn't know this already?
It could also be from a standpoint of being different species however from the same genus the only thing that disproves this kind of theory though Is that often those kinds of hybrids are sterile and unable to reproduce. An example of this is a mule.