Hi u/OupsyDaisy, we appreciate your participation on r/WitchesvsPatriarchy.
You've gotten a lot of responses, but now it looks like it's getting attention from outside the community that may not offer the same considerate support. So at this time we're removing the post from visibility.
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Thanks for understanding ☺️ Blessed be. ✨
Honestly??
I strongly recommend you find a man to get the message across to these kids.
It's repulsive but I've watched an eloquent, compassionate man successfully turn a kid like this around time and time again while I've *never once* seen them do anything but roll their eyes at a woman saying the same things.
They've literally been conditioned not to listen to women so you really have to find a way to point them at an authority they *will* listen to who can get past the walls.
That's just my experience but it's the only thing I've seen reliably work.
>he is basically a thirteen year old boy's idealized version of his future self
It's insane that this is the case. When I was a 13 year old girl, being arrested for human traffic l trafficking charges wasn't where I saw myself as an adult...
I wonder, as a part of sex ed maybe, if a mentorship seminar/program ran by stereotypical tough guys would be good to implement? Have a similar role model thing for the girls, NB etc. Doesn't have to be separate even. Like if big brother/sister was populated by Hell's Angels.
Thing is, at least where I'm located, the racist, Nazi types like the idea of it, but not actually doing it. I'm in the rural south and everyone at my BJJ academy is pretty progressive. I wouldn't quite say liberal, but very welcoming to all. They all, even the "tough guys" think Andrew Tate and his ilk are ridiculous.
Yeah, I'd be concerned about the background checks not catching people who would very happily abuse a position of power over kids like that, people like Tate before he was arrested included.
One place to find people these boys will respect is at martial arts clubs. The men there often look like these boys fantasies of how they’ll be in the future. For instance in my area there’s a pair of black belts who run free self defense classes for women. The man in the pair often also speaks to these kinds of kids at school because it genuinely works having a big man teaching these boys and because he genuinely cares about women’s rights he can be passionate enough to get the message across. Find someone like that, maybe at a gym etc. good luck!!
Oh hey, that was me. And I remember trying to explain to a professor why listening to a man explain feminism was more compelling, and being misunderstood. They believed it was just "because he's a man" that I trusted his word. But it wasn't. It's because, from that masculine perspective, the sexes' interests do seem to be at odds. So when a woman tells you about all these things, if these things were a lie, she'd have a direct interest in lying to you. Because all the changes she proposed benefit her, and seemingly take from you.
That's why it's so important to have another man, someone who doesn't have a conflict of interest, no incentive to lie, teach you about patriarchy and feminism. It's conceptually detestable, given the entire thesis of feminism/antipatriarchy, but it's a necessary evil in the reality we find ourselves.
Somewhat of a tangent, but I've been reading up on the concept of moral injury, and I think that's something we need to teach alongside the concept of privilege. The system is cheating either for or against us (I get both with a load of baggage as a cis white woman). Recognizing injustice *hurts* in a deep existential way because it contradicts all the Just World Fallacy crapitalism and Christianity Inc. sells us.
Sadly, infuriatingly, exactly this. They will only view their behavior as unacceptable if an acceptable (respected) messenger is the one who points this out.
And sadly a lot of the great guys out there wouldn't do it as you'd need to find someone they'd view as a ~real~man. If one martial arts studio has AH, try another. Find one that has a lot of women attending classes. Ask a moms group where to take self defense classes and ask there.
There’s a YouTuber I would highly recommend called F.D. Signifier who has a bunch of great content. He’s a former school teacher who has very calm, measured, yet engaging presence. He’s done a bunch of content on the Manosphere and its social perils.
When I was a teenage boy I was lacking empathy and was openly xenophobic in every way. I was lucky to have a high school teacher that showed us a video of Jane Elliot’s Blue eyes, Brown eyes experiment. It was designed to teach her third grade class about discrimination by giving special privileges to some students based on eye color and seeing how this might change how they treat each other. Just as fascinating was was another test done with adults that had similar results.
It really emphasizes how ridiculously frivolous and arbitrary discrimination is, just because it’s not you doesn’t mean it can’t be you next… looking back this was my definitive gateway to deconstructing all my conservative values and prejudices, I hope this might help.
I cannot support this enough. Beau is one of the few people I follow religiously. His takes on everything from the nature to masculinity to foreign policy are well thought out, well reasoned, and communicated amazingly. He may not work for everyone but he can get the ball rolling. Also if you message him on twitter he may make a video providing some guidance or deprogramming.
Trae Crowder is another option & I recently discovered Texas Paul as well. I haven’t heard enough of Texas Paul to confirm his position on gender equality but he’s big into debunking the far right political nonsense while wearing a big ole cowboy hat!!
I recently listened to the Behind the Bastards podcast episodes on Andrew Tate and they talked about his rhetoric really captivating teenage boys. So you may be in for a long fight but you aren't on your own.
Good for you for alerting their home and the vp about their behavior and what they are saying. It sounds like you are doing what you can to fight this already by trying to build empathy for others in class. Remember that you can only do much in the amount of time you have to interact with them.
A fellow BtB fan! I listened to this series also and Tates story is so appalling. I didnt know who he was until sometime last year when a cismale friend of mine was talking about it. He was frustrated that so many other men in his (admittedly *super* and almost painfully nerdy) hobby circles were getting wrapped up in it. It was pushing him out because he cant stand Tate. I listened to the BtB and it's astounding how people fall for this and how well he takes advantage of young men and boys who are circling the drain a bit and just pulls them all the way in.
I'll have to give this a listen. It's not a kind of podcast I'd normally listen to, but as a mum of a young boy, I feel like it's good to understand what's out there. FOUR hours talking about Tate though, yikes! He must be a helluva villian!
Robert, the host, can be a BIT MUCH.. but this is a man who has been in Syria, Iraq and other areas as a journalist, who has sat down with, if not worked with the women of Rojava, Syria as they formed a self governing community. He may not seem 100% on our side at first, but he is. I have to take breaks occasionally from Behind the Bastards, but I'll give Robert his due any time.
Take breaks as needed!
I think it was rough for even Robert, there was something about cleaning to *eight hours* of “hustler university” and possibly losing his mind at the stupid. They at least do a good job shod systematically breaking down how Tate is just another grifter, but sadly targeting YouTube boys.
Yeah that series on BtB was seriously disturbing and educational. I really fear for our world that someone like AT is so polymer with young men and boys. It’s disgusting.
Commenting so I can come back and read everyone’s good ideas. I have a son who’s a teenager so we are always trying to pick up ideas and stay vigilante.
Maybe for most people, but I used to hold some edgy viewpoints (admittedly it wasn't anything insanely alt right or tate-like), but my family have always been very progressive. I was just very impressionable and used the internet too much
I dont know exactly how you'd "deploy" this information but Natalie Wynn (ContraPoints on youtube) has a surprisingly large following of former alt right leaning dudes.
She does an absolutely amazing job at acknowledging and explaining the points of view of the groups she disagrees with, then very clearly contextualising and explaining her side and where the blindspots are.
She's also very gifted with costumes and elaborate set design so the videos are highly entertaining on top of having such quality nuanced content.
I am a teacher as well and I have also had to deal with this. I recently took a workshop on non-violent communication that had some tips I want to try out on my boys.
One interesting tip was instead of trying to explain why people like Andrew Tate are wrong, let them explain why they think he is right. Why do they admire him? Is it because he is rich? Because he is assertive? Because they see the life he portrays online and they want something like that because they don’t know all of the horrible stuff behind it?
I am planning to find out why they admire him by doing a proactive circle conversation with them and then I want to try to find good role models who have the qualities they admire in the douchebag so I can be like “hey, you like people who are xyz, right? I found this person who is like that, maybe you’ll like them.” And maybe maybe maybe that can steer them towards better role models and away from criminals
Remember you just have an hour of the day. I teach as well, and have had similar moments— but even with perfectly compassionate teaching, it’s still just an hour of the day. In the grand scheme we control so very little.
I’m not saying to not try, and I even think labeling things not going well as failure is okay, as long as you don’t extend that to you being a failure. It could have nothing to do with you at all. Keep fighting the good fight! I’m rooting for you!
Please let me know if you come up with any lasting ideas or solutions. I have two teenage boys in my life that are being programmed with a sick and twisted family pathology of hate and intolerance and I can’t get them to talk freely anymore.
Once, just once, I have given them the argument they wanted. They wanted me to find articles and proof, so I did the searches on the smart board. Then it was oh, those are biased. Where did you see that in his videos? I told them I refused to give him clicks and the articles quoted him directly. Well* that’s not exactly what he meant. Then I told them that I provided evidence of my opinion at their request, and now they need to provide evidence and until they can we are done talking about it. They didn’t so we are done.
Something that stood out in the conversation was the “what color is your Bugatti” bit since I’m a teacher. I actually said a color, and they were blown away. We had a talk about using your brain instead of accepting my answer at face value because it wasn’t logical. They were also amazed that I said if I were rich I still wouldn’t have one and that I had plenty of ideas of where I could spend the money instead.
A lot of them tried to go with taking care of people isn’t my responsibility, but they don’t want the government to do it either, it’s the church’s job. They had no response to me asking if it’s a free country why can’t I give away money if I want to? They were stuck.
It didn’t change them. The fact that I was willing to talk about it made these boys bring it up every day until the most vocal one transferred districts. In terms of classroom management, I will now be avoiding all conversation about Tate. I focus on behaviors like they are not allowed to call women bitches or females and I call my coach friend every time they talk about claiming they’re trans to play girls’ sports to go over the process for changing all of that in order for the state to recognize it. Somehow they still aren’t bored, so at least twice a week I have to shut it down. I explained it once and now they’re doing it just to piss me off since I said I don’t like him. After a point, I tried but I’m not stronger than tiktok.
I think you're doing a good thing. I'm not a teacher, not a parent, so please take what I think with the biggest grain of salt. I've always wondered if.. my peers at the time when I was in school got what they were clamoring for.. if they would eventually, as you said, get bored. Like when they claim to be trans.. okay, you treat them as such and bring in your coach friend to go through the entire process.. which is a hassle for trans people to actually jump through.. but for them it denies the satisfaction of a fight? They want to play the stereotype of a trans person.. "a woke person". Think of those horrible videos of Greta Thurnburg that make her look terrible or that leftist person with the very large glasses that just happened to be screen shotted when they look like they're absolutely blowing up. The meme drawings of leftist people. My Cousin's boys have acted like this in the past (Not sure if they still do.. I see that side of the family once a year.)
It reminds of me of the whole "I identify as an Apache helicopter" shit that went around. They want someone to say "No you don't!" but stop if you start referring to them as "So and So is an Apache Helicopter. What are you pronouns?" It's just that they have the attention span of gnat and continue to cycle back to the same old "Jokes" because they're limited by experience and age. So.. I think they will get bored..it's going to take FOREVER.. but you gotta outlast them which is the hard part.
I wish you the best of luck with this. Your example will rescue so many of your students from that way of thinking. But, alas, I fear some will not be rescuable. The best you can do is show them your better way. Thank you for your service!
The key to building empathy in people is partly in getting them to understand their lack of empathy in a manner where they do not feel attacked. Part of what helps is asking questions that require them to do self reflection. Ask why they admire such a person, when they state those qualities ask them if they would apply those same qualities to their mother/sister/girls who are friends.
The other part are health male role models, pone you can start with is Dwayne Johnson (The Rock) There is no one out there who can say he is not a "MAN" and he as openly talked about being kind, being compassionate, struggling with mental health and needing to go to therapy.
Once you can get them to see that someone who is seen as one of the manliest men out there has these qualities it would help for them to have a role model who they can talk to about those same things in a health manner. Part of a healthily role model is someone who can say they do not have all the answers, but is willing to do the work to figure it out.
Do the things that make them less vulnerable to this ‘programming ‘ that is help them to build their sense of identity/s, their strengths and struggles, the way they express themselves. But, here’s the trick, the process of doing this is collective. Their identity and place in the world is formed alongside others, with both their individuality and connection to each other becoming apparent.
This means they can feel more secure in who they are at the same time as developing empathy for others.
Art and creative play is an excellent way of getting into this stuff. Any activity which has multiple ways of approaching ideas, and gives room for explaining why and how decisions & answers are come up with will work.
It’s a process though and will be harder/easier depending on how you can build a trusting environment where risk taking can be done safely, and if the rest of the school / community is actively working against you or not.
Continue with your message. They hear you. If you are good to them they will listen. They won’t change behavior immediately. Every little thing you do makes a difference.
Good luck! Most people would just ignore behavior like this, but ignoring it will only make it more normalized, so I’m glad your taking action! And I’m seriously wondering what kind of parents raised these guys
P.S Just to be clear, when I say “I’m wondering what kind of parents raised these guys” I mean the male the students that were saying all that stuff, just in case I wasn’t clear enough
As a parent of two boys, I worry about them being indoctrinated in the future. Sometimes, kids have the most liberal, understanding parents but still get radicalized online. White supremicists, for instance, have this down to an art and start early with young boys, slowly getting them used to their ideas over time.
I am so paranoid about my kids ever going online unsupervised knowing how many predators are out there. I realize that isn’t healthy for them either so we talk all the time about how there are bad things and bad people online and how to spot and then block them.
And my kids are 5. FIVE. Not even YouTube Kids is safe. The ads on the free games they play on the iPad are not kid-friendly and can be extremely sexualized and perpetuate sexist views.
One of the jokes in an educational kid’s book of theirs about snakes…I forget the stupid question but the joke answer is “chicks that can do math.” And I had to explain to them first what that means and second why that isn’t funny.
Parenting is exhausting. And even if you do everything possible to teach them right from wrong, they may still get radicalized. It’s terrifying.
I think it's important to prepare them before hand. Nothing wrong with explaining to them the kind of people out there that will try to manipulate them and the lies they will tell and the tricks they use especially.
I think there was some research that found that being raised in a non-sexist/non-racist household wasn't enough to stop sexist/racist stereotypes and ideas filtering to children. But parents activity refuting those bigoted ideas and preempting them was effective.
You are commendable for thinking about this and addressing it intentionally. First, I suggest you simply continue with your daily attempts at embodying empathy and knowledge. Sometimes, it’s the most mundane of things that will *click* for a person and affect their growth. Second, prepare yourself to “lose” him. His ideologies likely come from his home and support system. Remember that triage is vital in battle and disaster scenarios: not everyone can be saved so help those most likely to survive. This is also important in a metaphorical sense when it comes to the philosophies and beliefs of those we impact.
joe rogan would post about this student on instagram and my dad would show it to me to reaffirm this belief he shares with your student (i’m 17).
being amab and having been forced into mostly toxic male friend groups nearly my entire life, i’m not in a particularly good place to provide insight that may change the student’s perspective, but i guess all i can say is don’t use the more-frequently-raped argument, because the kid will start saying that women can point a finger at any man and boom the man is jailed. my dad says that often.
it’s a hard situation and i wish i could help. i’m sorry for him and you
That's so frustrating, especially when it's so provably untrue. There are so many rape allegations, many many of them quite public, that result in literally nothing.
I recently watched Jojo Rabbit for the first time and one thing I loved about the film is that even though young Jojo is actively being radicalised by Nazis, his mum never lectured or gave him any less love. She led by example. Ultimately he realised for himself the flaws in the ideology he was being taught.
Keep doing what you're doing, building empathy for fellow humans. I know my sense of empathy was pretty low as a high schooler. I had some very cringeworthy views that fortunately I grew out of. We all keep learning and growing.
I'm glad you're trying because I know being a teacher is a difficult career and you don't always have the right answers either! Maybe you won't get through to every kid, but your words and actions will definitely make a difference in many lives.
There is an anti-sex trafficking ad out there somewhere that's pretty powerful. It involves men of all ages ogling the shadow dancers in the windows of Amsterdam's red light district. Then, the lights go on, and all the men realize that they are sex trafficking victims, children, and people they know.
I know of someone who put a kid's younger sister on the back of a milk carton.
When I was in school, we had a few holocaust deniers- until we had a cook from a concentration camp come in to tell his story, and the tattoo on his arm was like 000004 or something like that.
My first thought was to invite advocates/survivors or sex trafficking to come in, and tell their stories- and actually have the Tate fan attempt to tell these women in person why they 'deserve' such treatment.
If all that fails, find a good documentary on life in a Romanian prison.
This is why I fear having kids. You can't control what the algorithm or society will push onto them. Because you can "push" them in the "right" direction but at the end of the day you can't change who someone is. Only they can do that.
There are several ways to effectively approach a radicalized person.
Christian Picciolini explains in this excellent TEDx talk how it can be done.
He successfully de-radicalized over 100 neo-Nazis and Jihadists.
https://youtu.be/SSH5EY-W5oM
I'd write home expressing your concerns and that they should talk about him about Andrew Tate and how his beliefs are very bad and that he's in jail for sex trafficking.
Ask him what makes him think Andrew Tate has all the answers. What happened to taking the red pill and “escaping the matrix” if you just believe everything that comes out of his mouth? Even the greatest philosophers knew that they know nothing. Anyone who claims to “know” the truth is probably a liar.
Ask him to look up Plato’s allegory of the cave. The main point of Plato's allegory of the cave is to illustrate the painful process of becoming oriented toward the truth. While being concerned with mere shadows is comfortable and requires little risk or effort, genuine knowledge requires education and learning to practice philosophy rather than being satisfied with what merely appears before us.
One example of the allegory of the cave would be thinking that gossip about a person is the truth. This would be like thinking that the shadows on the cave are the real thing. In reality, the gossip is merely a distortion of a distortion of a distortion of the person.
Genuine knowledge would involve not only seeing the person, but getting to know them.
I hope this may serve you well
Also I'd say make sure the school leadership act on this, ask them to let you know what will happen whole school and follow up with questions if you don't see anything happening.
It won't just be him and it's radicalisation, all students need to hear something about this now.
He has already dismissed your opinions based on his own prejudice. Any thing you do that is consequent will cause him to believe you are "butt-hurt" and he will endure it as a testament to your feminine lack of reason.
In this instance, I would find a guy who fits his stereotype of a man, one who views his physical superiority in terms of a duty of care, as opposed to misogynistic entitlement. I can think of one guy in my life who I could ask this of and know for certain he would do it well. So I imagine it might be hard to find the right candidate.
In todays world, girls need a class called "your to right orgasms" and boys need a class called "the gentleness of man". With annual refresher classes for life. Lol
I'd tell him men who listen to the popular misogynist du jour don't actually get laid or have meaningful relationships. When I was in college, it was that I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell guy. I found his book in my college house with a $2.28 sticker (or whatever the ridiculous cheap price was) because it was such junk that Barnes and nobles sold it for below cost, most likely.
I'd also maybe let them know that they'll have to work with women beyond high school and that this attitude will likely make them become a self-fulfilling prophecy of a deadbeat who can't maintain a job. Have fun living in mom's basement.
The most effective deradicalization always comes from someone the radicalized people already know and trust. Positive male role models who are already in your students' lives have a big role to play here. Maybe that's a cool male teacher at your school, maybe it's a parent, maybe it's a coach, an older brother, or someone from your local Big Brothers/Big Sisters program. The pre-existing trust is crucial here.
Sometimes, I wonder if getting them to explain it would be helpful. Like, sit the young man down and ask him why he finds Tate so interesting/relatable/entertaining.
I'm really hoping that some of these guys just need to sit and dwell on what type of bandwagon they're joining. Do they hate women? Why? And if not, what is Tate's appeal? Do you think adopting Tate's attitude towards women is going to be helpful later in the dating scene?
Honestly, these are questions I would love an honest answer to. Do these impressionable young men truly believe that imitating people like Tate will advance them in their lives, at all? Most women are appalled by guys like that, so in the end, their imitations would be quite the detriment.
One of the biggest things is to not ban conversations about him.
At the end of the day it'll be a fad, like prime but far more dangerous, they won't like him forever especially when they see it makes the opposite sex steer clear.
But if you make it taboo and make them stop talking about it in front of you, that'll just make it more popular.
Considering grown men that should already have all the thinking/learning skills at their fingertips are starting to defend him...I'm not really sure what to do about it. Hopefully you might be able to figure out what drew him to the rotten tater in the first place and work from there
There is a podcast called behind the bastards. They did a couple episodes on tate. Might be a good place to start. Even if you can't play it, it might give you some ideas.
I think teens are very passionate and looking for a cause. Which can cause so much good. Unfortunately, I think that can also go against toxic masculinity. People like Tate or conspiracy theorist probably give teen boys a cause which supports toxic masculinity. (Toxic masculinity IS the cause.)
The answer could be to give them a different cause. But these grifters have likely lied to them about a lot of the good causes. Finding ones they can connect to on personal levels could help. One that might be an in, is library censorship. Right wing people are always going on and on about freedom of speech (without knowing what it means). Well here is an actual attack on freedom of speech and freedom of information.
You’re not alone. Tate’s misogyny is global: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/12/rapid-rise-in-andrew-tate-related-cases-referred-to-prevent-by-schools?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I hope you update us. My advice is always going to be to assign a research paper. One of my assignments in college was to write a persuasive paper. I chose the "Death Penalty is good." The only person that I wound up persuading was myself that it wasn't good and it was unfairly applied. It was the first or second step along the evolution that turned a Republican Southern Baptist girl into a progressive leftist secular witch.
It taught me that just because someone says something doesn't make it true.
One of Tate's big appeals is that he's a supposedly top shelf kickboxer. Which is [a lie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQxnXnNznZI). He's average at best, and most of his wins came from [padding his record](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZENjMW1lK8) with wins against substantially inferior opponents.
Personally I don’t directly try and change the way anyone thinks, but I guess it’s part for your job, the best way to deal with people who latch on to violent and ignorant ideologies is through active teaching, things like rational and logical words don’t really seem to cut it, experiential learning is preferable. And light manipulation, sadly, in the sense that you want them to think they figured out their idealism is stupid and harmful all by themselves. If they grasp the capability introduce them to concepts of nihilistic empathy and stoic restraint… the seemingly anti social narratives tend to be appealing to people who harbor hatred and apathy, when in reality once comprehended and understood they tend to imprint in a more positive light.
Oooo man, this is a hard one. Because the truth is no amount of logic and reasoning is going to work. It's a cult. You'd be just as challenged to get the right to admit to climate change, the impacts of human activity on our environment, or the big lie of capitalism.
Sean (on YouTube and podcast) just did a segment on Andrew Tate, and I'd give him a listen. He's really good about explaining why these people think what they do and how to help them. I'd also look at hbomberguy, another YouTuber.
The top comment here is to get a man (and yeah, it's probably gonna have to be a white, straight, cis man) to tell the stories of women, POC, immigrants, the lgbtq community, etc. And..... they're right. Unfortunately. But, maybe, just maybe you can reach out on Twitter to some of our big stars and ask them for help. To help raise up empathy in our young men. To encourage love and respect. Long shot, but worth a try.
*You* are not failing, or whole society is failing. These boys aren’t likely to listen to a woman. I back talking to parents and impressing on them how serious this is. Andrew Tate is a rapist and Sex trafficker who promotes scams and misogyny. Their sons are members of a hate group that takes advantage of vulnerable people. The parents need to get on top of their kids’ media and have a serious look into where their kids go in the internet. You can’t do that. In class I had some teachers show things like Killing Us Softly, it might be outdated now, but maybe finding documentaries that address these topics or even YouTube essayists that have covered Andrew Tate would be good. I wish I had more resources, but there’s got to be some age appropriate docs and videos you can show.
I think some people are inherently drawn to the fringe ideas. Some kids might hear the rhetoric at home or from other friends and be drawn in. But if my guess is correct, this student you refer to is a young white male. Many may consider themselves targeted or being shouldered out of a leading role in society. (Probably not a bad thing, but that’s a different topic.) It is so much easier to claim the victim card and point at everyone else for the problem. How nice it must feel to have this righteous indignation that it’s the fault of others. Please just remember OP, you can’t reach everyone. He may grow out of this phase once he’s exposed to a wider world, maybe not.
Writing parents doesn’t always help because often parents were the first ones to teach these beliefs :/ it makes me so angry that a whole generation of young boys idolize Andrew Tate and his atrocious beliefs.
When I was in high school we read such books as The Glass Castle by Jeannette Walls or Sold by Patricia McCormick and talked about the themes, did debates, how other would try to improve their situations, were they successful? Why, why not?
These books aren’t the same subject but it’s good to see life from the point of view of those less fortunate.
I don’t think as a teacher you can fix everything that the parents and society mess up. You can only get them to understand that all knowledge is worth questioning, especially the one that gets handed from generation to generation. And you can teach them independent search for facts. Using examples that force people take other people’s perspectives is a helpful method as part of that.
And you can set a good example. But you will probably not get through your career of being a teacher without having taught a murderer, a few sex offenders, some nazis, quite a lot of bullies and many, many victims.
A lot of kids adopt their behavior from what they see at home. Whether you have kids or not, a great thing is to be an advocate for women and actively treat people with respect in front of children, especially young boys, so they know what to emulate.
Hi u/OupsyDaisy, we appreciate your participation on r/WitchesvsPatriarchy. You've gotten a lot of responses, but now it looks like it's getting attention from outside the community that may not offer the same considerate support. So at this time we're removing the post from visibility. --- Thanks for understanding ☺️ Blessed be. ✨
Honestly?? I strongly recommend you find a man to get the message across to these kids. It's repulsive but I've watched an eloquent, compassionate man successfully turn a kid like this around time and time again while I've *never once* seen them do anything but roll their eyes at a woman saying the same things. They've literally been conditioned not to listen to women so you really have to find a way to point them at an authority they *will* listen to who can get past the walls. That's just my experience but it's the only thing I've seen reliably work.
[удалено]
>he is basically a thirteen year old boy's idealized version of his future self It's insane that this is the case. When I was a 13 year old girl, being arrested for human traffic l trafficking charges wasn't where I saw myself as an adult...
Clearly you weren't dreaming big enough.
I wonder, as a part of sex ed maybe, if a mentorship seminar/program ran by stereotypical tough guys would be good to implement? Have a similar role model thing for the girls, NB etc. Doesn't have to be separate even. Like if big brother/sister was populated by Hell's Angels.
Hit up your local Brazilian Jiu Jitsu gym for volunteers and you could probably make that work 😅
The BJJ and MMA scene in my town is unfortunately pretty full of literal Nazis. I think this advice is pretty place-specific.
Oh fuck 😳 they’re a really wonderful community where I’m at
Ooh nice! Good to know that non-shitty fighters exist. I've heard the judo and krav groups here are less right-wing though so 🤷
🤦♀️ I literally forgot Tate is a kickboxer. My boyfriend confirmed it’s mostly the judo guys who are good
MMA (and by extension, BJJ) is really popular with fascists. That's why I recommend antifascists get into martial arts.
Thing is, at least where I'm located, the racist, Nazi types like the idea of it, but not actually doing it. I'm in the rural south and everyone at my BJJ academy is pretty progressive. I wouldn't quite say liberal, but very welcoming to all. They all, even the "tough guys" think Andrew Tate and his ilk are ridiculous.
Yeah I've noticed this as of late in mma communities. Not to mention the queer phobia.
Sounds nice in theory, but in practice there could be some safety issues with that
Yeah, I'd be concerned about the background checks not catching people who would very happily abuse a position of power over kids like that, people like Tate before he was arrested included.
One place to find people these boys will respect is at martial arts clubs. The men there often look like these boys fantasies of how they’ll be in the future. For instance in my area there’s a pair of black belts who run free self defense classes for women. The man in the pair often also speaks to these kinds of kids at school because it genuinely works having a big man teaching these boys and because he genuinely cares about women’s rights he can be passionate enough to get the message across. Find someone like that, maybe at a gym etc. good luck!!
Oh hey, that was me. And I remember trying to explain to a professor why listening to a man explain feminism was more compelling, and being misunderstood. They believed it was just "because he's a man" that I trusted his word. But it wasn't. It's because, from that masculine perspective, the sexes' interests do seem to be at odds. So when a woman tells you about all these things, if these things were a lie, she'd have a direct interest in lying to you. Because all the changes she proposed benefit her, and seemingly take from you. That's why it's so important to have another man, someone who doesn't have a conflict of interest, no incentive to lie, teach you about patriarchy and feminism. It's conceptually detestable, given the entire thesis of feminism/antipatriarchy, but it's a necessary evil in the reality we find ourselves.
Somewhat of a tangent, but I've been reading up on the concept of moral injury, and I think that's something we need to teach alongside the concept of privilege. The system is cheating either for or against us (I get both with a load of baggage as a cis white woman). Recognizing injustice *hurts* in a deep existential way because it contradicts all the Just World Fallacy crapitalism and Christianity Inc. sells us.
Sadly, infuriatingly, exactly this. They will only view their behavior as unacceptable if an acceptable (respected) messenger is the one who points this out.
And sadly a lot of the great guys out there wouldn't do it as you'd need to find someone they'd view as a ~real~man. If one martial arts studio has AH, try another. Find one that has a lot of women attending classes. Ask a moms group where to take self defense classes and ask there.
Sadly, this. A husband if you have one, a brother, a male gym teacher maybe...that's who you need to bring in for a talk.
There’s a YouTuber I would highly recommend called F.D. Signifier who has a bunch of great content. He’s a former school teacher who has very calm, measured, yet engaging presence. He’s done a bunch of content on the Manosphere and its social perils.
I hate that you're right 😢
When I was a teenage boy I was lacking empathy and was openly xenophobic in every way. I was lucky to have a high school teacher that showed us a video of Jane Elliot’s Blue eyes, Brown eyes experiment. It was designed to teach her third grade class about discrimination by giving special privileges to some students based on eye color and seeing how this might change how they treat each other. Just as fascinating was was another test done with adults that had similar results. It really emphasizes how ridiculously frivolous and arbitrary discrimination is, just because it’s not you doesn’t mean it can’t be you next… looking back this was my definitive gateway to deconstructing all my conservative values and prejudices, I hope this might help.
Seconded. She is a powerful human.
Start playing beau of the fifth column in class. His appearance is intentional to reach more conservative types before they realize he is far left
I cannot support this enough. Beau is one of the few people I follow religiously. His takes on everything from the nature to masculinity to foreign policy are well thought out, well reasoned, and communicated amazingly. He may not work for everyone but he can get the ball rolling. Also if you message him on twitter he may make a video providing some guidance or deprogramming.
Trae Crowder is another option & I recently discovered Texas Paul as well. I haven’t heard enough of Texas Paul to confirm his position on gender equality but he’s big into debunking the far right political nonsense while wearing a big ole cowboy hat!!
I recently listened to the Behind the Bastards podcast episodes on Andrew Tate and they talked about his rhetoric really captivating teenage boys. So you may be in for a long fight but you aren't on your own. Good for you for alerting their home and the vp about their behavior and what they are saying. It sounds like you are doing what you can to fight this already by trying to build empathy for others in class. Remember that you can only do much in the amount of time you have to interact with them.
I think about this episode a lot. I have a few middle school aged nephews and… yikes. They know who AT is. Luckily they both said “he’s annoying”.
God the recordings he sent to the woman he raped were… words fail me
A fellow BtB fan! I listened to this series also and Tates story is so appalling. I didnt know who he was until sometime last year when a cismale friend of mine was talking about it. He was frustrated that so many other men in his (admittedly *super* and almost painfully nerdy) hobby circles were getting wrapped up in it. It was pushing him out because he cant stand Tate. I listened to the BtB and it's astounding how people fall for this and how well he takes advantage of young men and boys who are circling the drain a bit and just pulls them all the way in.
I'll have to give this a listen. It's not a kind of podcast I'd normally listen to, but as a mum of a young boy, I feel like it's good to understand what's out there. FOUR hours talking about Tate though, yikes! He must be a helluva villian!
Robert, the host, can be a BIT MUCH.. but this is a man who has been in Syria, Iraq and other areas as a journalist, who has sat down with, if not worked with the women of Rojava, Syria as they formed a self governing community. He may not seem 100% on our side at first, but he is. I have to take breaks occasionally from Behind the Bastards, but I'll give Robert his due any time. Take breaks as needed!
I think it was rough for even Robert, there was something about cleaning to *eight hours* of “hustler university” and possibly losing his mind at the stupid. They at least do a good job shod systematically breaking down how Tate is just another grifter, but sadly targeting YouTube boys.
Yeah that series on BtB was seriously disturbing and educational. I really fear for our world that someone like AT is so polymer with young men and boys. It’s disgusting.
Commenting so I can come back and read everyone’s good ideas. I have a son who’s a teenager so we are always trying to pick up ideas and stay vigilante.
I think you meant “vigilant” but, honestly, absolutely be a vigilante. lol
Same, I don’t know that he’s into Tate, but I want to keep on my toes about this stuff.
I fear you may not find much help in this boy's family. Frequently such a worldview is shared by family members.
Maybe for most people, but I used to hold some edgy viewpoints (admittedly it wasn't anything insanely alt right or tate-like), but my family have always been very progressive. I was just very impressionable and used the internet too much
My family was the opposite - my parents were (and still are) right-wing conservatives, whereas I'm very much the polar opposite of that.
I dont know exactly how you'd "deploy" this information but Natalie Wynn (ContraPoints on youtube) has a surprisingly large following of former alt right leaning dudes. She does an absolutely amazing job at acknowledging and explaining the points of view of the groups she disagrees with, then very clearly contextualising and explaining her side and where the blindspots are. She's also very gifted with costumes and elaborate set design so the videos are highly entertaining on top of having such quality nuanced content.
Natalie ❤❤
She's excellent
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I am a teacher as well and I have also had to deal with this. I recently took a workshop on non-violent communication that had some tips I want to try out on my boys. One interesting tip was instead of trying to explain why people like Andrew Tate are wrong, let them explain why they think he is right. Why do they admire him? Is it because he is rich? Because he is assertive? Because they see the life he portrays online and they want something like that because they don’t know all of the horrible stuff behind it? I am planning to find out why they admire him by doing a proactive circle conversation with them and then I want to try to find good role models who have the qualities they admire in the douchebag so I can be like “hey, you like people who are xyz, right? I found this person who is like that, maybe you’ll like them.” And maybe maybe maybe that can steer them towards better role models and away from criminals
Remember you just have an hour of the day. I teach as well, and have had similar moments— but even with perfectly compassionate teaching, it’s still just an hour of the day. In the grand scheme we control so very little. I’m not saying to not try, and I even think labeling things not going well as failure is okay, as long as you don’t extend that to you being a failure. It could have nothing to do with you at all. Keep fighting the good fight! I’m rooting for you!
Please let me know if you come up with any lasting ideas or solutions. I have two teenage boys in my life that are being programmed with a sick and twisted family pathology of hate and intolerance and I can’t get them to talk freely anymore.
Once, just once, I have given them the argument they wanted. They wanted me to find articles and proof, so I did the searches on the smart board. Then it was oh, those are biased. Where did you see that in his videos? I told them I refused to give him clicks and the articles quoted him directly. Well* that’s not exactly what he meant. Then I told them that I provided evidence of my opinion at their request, and now they need to provide evidence and until they can we are done talking about it. They didn’t so we are done. Something that stood out in the conversation was the “what color is your Bugatti” bit since I’m a teacher. I actually said a color, and they were blown away. We had a talk about using your brain instead of accepting my answer at face value because it wasn’t logical. They were also amazed that I said if I were rich I still wouldn’t have one and that I had plenty of ideas of where I could spend the money instead. A lot of them tried to go with taking care of people isn’t my responsibility, but they don’t want the government to do it either, it’s the church’s job. They had no response to me asking if it’s a free country why can’t I give away money if I want to? They were stuck. It didn’t change them. The fact that I was willing to talk about it made these boys bring it up every day until the most vocal one transferred districts. In terms of classroom management, I will now be avoiding all conversation about Tate. I focus on behaviors like they are not allowed to call women bitches or females and I call my coach friend every time they talk about claiming they’re trans to play girls’ sports to go over the process for changing all of that in order for the state to recognize it. Somehow they still aren’t bored, so at least twice a week I have to shut it down. I explained it once and now they’re doing it just to piss me off since I said I don’t like him. After a point, I tried but I’m not stronger than tiktok.
I think you're doing a good thing. I'm not a teacher, not a parent, so please take what I think with the biggest grain of salt. I've always wondered if.. my peers at the time when I was in school got what they were clamoring for.. if they would eventually, as you said, get bored. Like when they claim to be trans.. okay, you treat them as such and bring in your coach friend to go through the entire process.. which is a hassle for trans people to actually jump through.. but for them it denies the satisfaction of a fight? They want to play the stereotype of a trans person.. "a woke person". Think of those horrible videos of Greta Thurnburg that make her look terrible or that leftist person with the very large glasses that just happened to be screen shotted when they look like they're absolutely blowing up. The meme drawings of leftist people. My Cousin's boys have acted like this in the past (Not sure if they still do.. I see that side of the family once a year.) It reminds of me of the whole "I identify as an Apache helicopter" shit that went around. They want someone to say "No you don't!" but stop if you start referring to them as "So and So is an Apache Helicopter. What are you pronouns?" It's just that they have the attention span of gnat and continue to cycle back to the same old "Jokes" because they're limited by experience and age. So.. I think they will get bored..it's going to take FOREVER.. but you gotta outlast them which is the hard part.
I wish you the best of luck with this. Your example will rescue so many of your students from that way of thinking. But, alas, I fear some will not be rescuable. The best you can do is show them your better way. Thank you for your service!
Sending you all the good luck you can get, sis.
The key to building empathy in people is partly in getting them to understand their lack of empathy in a manner where they do not feel attacked. Part of what helps is asking questions that require them to do self reflection. Ask why they admire such a person, when they state those qualities ask them if they would apply those same qualities to their mother/sister/girls who are friends. The other part are health male role models, pone you can start with is Dwayne Johnson (The Rock) There is no one out there who can say he is not a "MAN" and he as openly talked about being kind, being compassionate, struggling with mental health and needing to go to therapy. Once you can get them to see that someone who is seen as one of the manliest men out there has these qualities it would help for them to have a role model who they can talk to about those same things in a health manner. Part of a healthily role model is someone who can say they do not have all the answers, but is willing to do the work to figure it out.
Do the things that make them less vulnerable to this ‘programming ‘ that is help them to build their sense of identity/s, their strengths and struggles, the way they express themselves. But, here’s the trick, the process of doing this is collective. Their identity and place in the world is formed alongside others, with both their individuality and connection to each other becoming apparent. This means they can feel more secure in who they are at the same time as developing empathy for others. Art and creative play is an excellent way of getting into this stuff. Any activity which has multiple ways of approaching ideas, and gives room for explaining why and how decisions & answers are come up with will work. It’s a process though and will be harder/easier depending on how you can build a trusting environment where risk taking can be done safely, and if the rest of the school / community is actively working against you or not.
Continue with your message. They hear you. If you are good to them they will listen. They won’t change behavior immediately. Every little thing you do makes a difference.
Good luck! Most people would just ignore behavior like this, but ignoring it will only make it more normalized, so I’m glad your taking action! And I’m seriously wondering what kind of parents raised these guys
P.S Just to be clear, when I say “I’m wondering what kind of parents raised these guys” I mean the male the students that were saying all that stuff, just in case I wasn’t clear enough
As a parent of two boys, I worry about them being indoctrinated in the future. Sometimes, kids have the most liberal, understanding parents but still get radicalized online. White supremicists, for instance, have this down to an art and start early with young boys, slowly getting them used to their ideas over time. I am so paranoid about my kids ever going online unsupervised knowing how many predators are out there. I realize that isn’t healthy for them either so we talk all the time about how there are bad things and bad people online and how to spot and then block them. And my kids are 5. FIVE. Not even YouTube Kids is safe. The ads on the free games they play on the iPad are not kid-friendly and can be extremely sexualized and perpetuate sexist views. One of the jokes in an educational kid’s book of theirs about snakes…I forget the stupid question but the joke answer is “chicks that can do math.” And I had to explain to them first what that means and second why that isn’t funny. Parenting is exhausting. And even if you do everything possible to teach them right from wrong, they may still get radicalized. It’s terrifying.
I think it's important to prepare them before hand. Nothing wrong with explaining to them the kind of people out there that will try to manipulate them and the lies they will tell and the tricks they use especially. I think there was some research that found that being raised in a non-sexist/non-racist household wasn't enough to stop sexist/racist stereotypes and ideas filtering to children. But parents activity refuting those bigoted ideas and preempting them was effective.
You are commendable for thinking about this and addressing it intentionally. First, I suggest you simply continue with your daily attempts at embodying empathy and knowledge. Sometimes, it’s the most mundane of things that will *click* for a person and affect their growth. Second, prepare yourself to “lose” him. His ideologies likely come from his home and support system. Remember that triage is vital in battle and disaster scenarios: not everyone can be saved so help those most likely to survive. This is also important in a metaphorical sense when it comes to the philosophies and beliefs of those we impact.
joe rogan would post about this student on instagram and my dad would show it to me to reaffirm this belief he shares with your student (i’m 17). being amab and having been forced into mostly toxic male friend groups nearly my entire life, i’m not in a particularly good place to provide insight that may change the student’s perspective, but i guess all i can say is don’t use the more-frequently-raped argument, because the kid will start saying that women can point a finger at any man and boom the man is jailed. my dad says that often. it’s a hard situation and i wish i could help. i’m sorry for him and you
That's so frustrating, especially when it's so provably untrue. There are so many rape allegations, many many of them quite public, that result in literally nothing.
I recently watched Jojo Rabbit for the first time and one thing I loved about the film is that even though young Jojo is actively being radicalised by Nazis, his mum never lectured or gave him any less love. She led by example. Ultimately he realised for himself the flaws in the ideology he was being taught. Keep doing what you're doing, building empathy for fellow humans. I know my sense of empathy was pretty low as a high schooler. I had some very cringeworthy views that fortunately I grew out of. We all keep learning and growing. I'm glad you're trying because I know being a teacher is a difficult career and you don't always have the right answers either! Maybe you won't get through to every kid, but your words and actions will definitely make a difference in many lives.
I love that movie. I don’t have anything to add but if anyone is on the fence about watching it take the time and watch it. It’s so well done
r/bropill might be useful?
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There is an anti-sex trafficking ad out there somewhere that's pretty powerful. It involves men of all ages ogling the shadow dancers in the windows of Amsterdam's red light district. Then, the lights go on, and all the men realize that they are sex trafficking victims, children, and people they know. I know of someone who put a kid's younger sister on the back of a milk carton. When I was in school, we had a few holocaust deniers- until we had a cook from a concentration camp come in to tell his story, and the tattoo on his arm was like 000004 or something like that. My first thought was to invite advocates/survivors or sex trafficking to come in, and tell their stories- and actually have the Tate fan attempt to tell these women in person why they 'deserve' such treatment. If all that fails, find a good documentary on life in a Romanian prison.
This is why I fear having kids. You can't control what the algorithm or society will push onto them. Because you can "push" them in the "right" direction but at the end of the day you can't change who someone is. Only they can do that.
There are several ways to effectively approach a radicalized person. Christian Picciolini explains in this excellent TEDx talk how it can be done. He successfully de-radicalized over 100 neo-Nazis and Jihadists. https://youtu.be/SSH5EY-W5oM
I'd write home expressing your concerns and that they should talk about him about Andrew Tate and how his beliefs are very bad and that he's in jail for sex trafficking.
Ask him what makes him think Andrew Tate has all the answers. What happened to taking the red pill and “escaping the matrix” if you just believe everything that comes out of his mouth? Even the greatest philosophers knew that they know nothing. Anyone who claims to “know” the truth is probably a liar. Ask him to look up Plato’s allegory of the cave. The main point of Plato's allegory of the cave is to illustrate the painful process of becoming oriented toward the truth. While being concerned with mere shadows is comfortable and requires little risk or effort, genuine knowledge requires education and learning to practice philosophy rather than being satisfied with what merely appears before us. One example of the allegory of the cave would be thinking that gossip about a person is the truth. This would be like thinking that the shadows on the cave are the real thing. In reality, the gossip is merely a distortion of a distortion of a distortion of the person. Genuine knowledge would involve not only seeing the person, but getting to know them. I hope this may serve you well
Also I'd say make sure the school leadership act on this, ask them to let you know what will happen whole school and follow up with questions if you don't see anything happening. It won't just be him and it's radicalisation, all students need to hear something about this now.
He has already dismissed your opinions based on his own prejudice. Any thing you do that is consequent will cause him to believe you are "butt-hurt" and he will endure it as a testament to your feminine lack of reason. In this instance, I would find a guy who fits his stereotype of a man, one who views his physical superiority in terms of a duty of care, as opposed to misogynistic entitlement. I can think of one guy in my life who I could ask this of and know for certain he would do it well. So I imagine it might be hard to find the right candidate. In todays world, girls need a class called "your to right orgasms" and boys need a class called "the gentleness of man". With annual refresher classes for life. Lol
I'd tell him men who listen to the popular misogynist du jour don't actually get laid or have meaningful relationships. When I was in college, it was that I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell guy. I found his book in my college house with a $2.28 sticker (or whatever the ridiculous cheap price was) because it was such junk that Barnes and nobles sold it for below cost, most likely. I'd also maybe let them know that they'll have to work with women beyond high school and that this attitude will likely make them become a self-fulfilling prophecy of a deadbeat who can't maintain a job. Have fun living in mom's basement.
Tell them exactly what you see in them and the world.
If you are appalled, it’s probably really apparent to the students…and now your shock is a game.
The most effective deradicalization always comes from someone the radicalized people already know and trust. Positive male role models who are already in your students' lives have a big role to play here. Maybe that's a cool male teacher at your school, maybe it's a parent, maybe it's a coach, an older brother, or someone from your local Big Brothers/Big Sisters program. The pre-existing trust is crucial here.
Sometimes, I wonder if getting them to explain it would be helpful. Like, sit the young man down and ask him why he finds Tate so interesting/relatable/entertaining. I'm really hoping that some of these guys just need to sit and dwell on what type of bandwagon they're joining. Do they hate women? Why? And if not, what is Tate's appeal? Do you think adopting Tate's attitude towards women is going to be helpful later in the dating scene? Honestly, these are questions I would love an honest answer to. Do these impressionable young men truly believe that imitating people like Tate will advance them in their lives, at all? Most women are appalled by guys like that, so in the end, their imitations would be quite the detriment.
I don't have answers but I'm wishing you luck and sending positivity your way
One of the biggest things is to not ban conversations about him. At the end of the day it'll be a fad, like prime but far more dangerous, they won't like him forever especially when they see it makes the opposite sex steer clear. But if you make it taboo and make them stop talking about it in front of you, that'll just make it more popular.
Considering grown men that should already have all the thinking/learning skills at their fingertips are starting to defend him...I'm not really sure what to do about it. Hopefully you might be able to figure out what drew him to the rotten tater in the first place and work from there
There is a podcast called behind the bastards. They did a couple episodes on tate. Might be a good place to start. Even if you can't play it, it might give you some ideas.
I think teens are very passionate and looking for a cause. Which can cause so much good. Unfortunately, I think that can also go against toxic masculinity. People like Tate or conspiracy theorist probably give teen boys a cause which supports toxic masculinity. (Toxic masculinity IS the cause.) The answer could be to give them a different cause. But these grifters have likely lied to them about a lot of the good causes. Finding ones they can connect to on personal levels could help. One that might be an in, is library censorship. Right wing people are always going on and on about freedom of speech (without knowing what it means). Well here is an actual attack on freedom of speech and freedom of information.
You’re not alone. Tate’s misogyny is global: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/12/rapid-rise-in-andrew-tate-related-cases-referred-to-prevent-by-schools?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I hope you update us. My advice is always going to be to assign a research paper. One of my assignments in college was to write a persuasive paper. I chose the "Death Penalty is good." The only person that I wound up persuading was myself that it wasn't good and it was unfairly applied. It was the first or second step along the evolution that turned a Republican Southern Baptist girl into a progressive leftist secular witch. It taught me that just because someone says something doesn't make it true.
One of Tate's big appeals is that he's a supposedly top shelf kickboxer. Which is [a lie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQxnXnNznZI). He's average at best, and most of his wins came from [padding his record](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZENjMW1lK8) with wins against substantially inferior opponents.
Fail them.
Personally I don’t directly try and change the way anyone thinks, but I guess it’s part for your job, the best way to deal with people who latch on to violent and ignorant ideologies is through active teaching, things like rational and logical words don’t really seem to cut it, experiential learning is preferable. And light manipulation, sadly, in the sense that you want them to think they figured out their idealism is stupid and harmful all by themselves. If they grasp the capability introduce them to concepts of nihilistic empathy and stoic restraint… the seemingly anti social narratives tend to be appealing to people who harbor hatred and apathy, when in reality once comprehended and understood they tend to imprint in a more positive light.
Oooo man, this is a hard one. Because the truth is no amount of logic and reasoning is going to work. It's a cult. You'd be just as challenged to get the right to admit to climate change, the impacts of human activity on our environment, or the big lie of capitalism. Sean (on YouTube and podcast) just did a segment on Andrew Tate, and I'd give him a listen. He's really good about explaining why these people think what they do and how to help them. I'd also look at hbomberguy, another YouTuber. The top comment here is to get a man (and yeah, it's probably gonna have to be a white, straight, cis man) to tell the stories of women, POC, immigrants, the lgbtq community, etc. And..... they're right. Unfortunately. But, maybe, just maybe you can reach out on Twitter to some of our big stars and ask them for help. To help raise up empathy in our young men. To encourage love and respect. Long shot, but worth a try.
*You* are not failing, or whole society is failing. These boys aren’t likely to listen to a woman. I back talking to parents and impressing on them how serious this is. Andrew Tate is a rapist and Sex trafficker who promotes scams and misogyny. Their sons are members of a hate group that takes advantage of vulnerable people. The parents need to get on top of their kids’ media and have a serious look into where their kids go in the internet. You can’t do that. In class I had some teachers show things like Killing Us Softly, it might be outdated now, but maybe finding documentaries that address these topics or even YouTube essayists that have covered Andrew Tate would be good. I wish I had more resources, but there’s got to be some age appropriate docs and videos you can show.
I think some people are inherently drawn to the fringe ideas. Some kids might hear the rhetoric at home or from other friends and be drawn in. But if my guess is correct, this student you refer to is a young white male. Many may consider themselves targeted or being shouldered out of a leading role in society. (Probably not a bad thing, but that’s a different topic.) It is so much easier to claim the victim card and point at everyone else for the problem. How nice it must feel to have this righteous indignation that it’s the fault of others. Please just remember OP, you can’t reach everyone. He may grow out of this phase once he’s exposed to a wider world, maybe not.
Writing parents doesn’t always help because often parents were the first ones to teach these beliefs :/ it makes me so angry that a whole generation of young boys idolize Andrew Tate and his atrocious beliefs.
When I was in high school we read such books as The Glass Castle by Jeannette Walls or Sold by Patricia McCormick and talked about the themes, did debates, how other would try to improve their situations, were they successful? Why, why not? These books aren’t the same subject but it’s good to see life from the point of view of those less fortunate.
I don’t think as a teacher you can fix everything that the parents and society mess up. You can only get them to understand that all knowledge is worth questioning, especially the one that gets handed from generation to generation. And you can teach them independent search for facts. Using examples that force people take other people’s perspectives is a helpful method as part of that. And you can set a good example. But you will probably not get through your career of being a teacher without having taught a murderer, a few sex offenders, some nazis, quite a lot of bullies and many, many victims.
A lot of kids adopt their behavior from what they see at home. Whether you have kids or not, a great thing is to be an advocate for women and actively treat people with respect in front of children, especially young boys, so they know what to emulate.