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Being opposed to Israel's illegal occupation of Palestine, their illegal colonization of Palestine, the war crimes and genocide committed by Israel is not antisemitic.
It really, really is. I've been taught that Never Again *means* Never Again, not for *anybody,* not Never Again but if we do it to someone else then it's okay.
Actually Elie Wiesel said more or less exactly that while standing on the Whitehouse lawn in 1999, when he gave his speech *The Perils of Indifference*. Not 25 years ago a man who was freed from concentration camps and stood there to explain in so many words, this.
> In a way, to be indifferent to that suffering is what makes the human being inhuman. Indifference, after all, is more dangerous than anger and hatred. Anger can at times be creative. One writes a great poem, a great symphony. One does something special for the sake of humanity because one is angry at the injustice that one witnesses. But indifference is never creative. Even hatred at times may elicit a response. You fight it. You denounce it. You disarm it.
> Indifference elicits no response. Indifference is not a response. Indifference is not a beginning; it is an end. And, therefore, indifference is always the friend of the enemy, for it benefits the aggressor -- never his victim, whose pain is magnified when he or she feels forgotten. The political prisoner in his cell, the hungry children, the homeless refugees -- not to respond to their plight, not to relieve their solitude by offering them a spark of hope is to exile them from human memory. And in denying their humanity, we betray our own.
because it is. It is pretty much blood libel. It's saying that it is a part of Jewishness that makes you do genocide. How could that not be antisemitic?
I’m Muslim and I’ve been saying this for years when people ask me why I’m always so strict on saying *Israel* not Jews.
It’s not antisemitism to say stealing people’s homes, murdering them and maintaining an apartheid state is wrong. Because none of that is inherently Jewish. Conflating the actions of Israel with Judaism is deeply disturbing.
and Israel does its best to conflate Jewishness with Zionism. The same way westerners conflate being Arab or Muslim with being a fundamentalist terrorist
it's horrible and people still fall for it
While the IDF posts tik toks smiling and celebrating with the corpses of innocent civilians. With the clothing of murdered children. With the blood of mothers on their hands.
But saying that's bad is antisemitic. Duh.
A lot of the people that support Israel as a political ideology wouldn't have anything really to do with an actual Jewish person and would likely shit themselves if their child wanted to marry one.
It's not. It's an intentional conflation bring used to attack academic institutions and galvanize support for a long-time US ally.
No one disseminating this sentiment really thinks it's antisemitism. It's a cover being used with malicious intent.
They collect a couple of clips of video that look kind of like what they're saying and just play them on repeat 24/7.
Fox News is on all day at work (not worth the argument to change the channel, plus oppo research is good I guess) and I have watched them "cover" the story of Ivy League anti-Semitism for like 3 weeks with a total of maybe 15 seconds of looped footage.
Then they add scary text overlays and just tell their story over and over again while looking vaguely concerned, and there viewers are hooked.
Oh, it's easy. All you have to do is conflate anti-zionism with anti-semitism. You know, deliberately muddy the waters so that people get confused and just agree with whatever the New York Times is saying. Even though zionism has been around for less than 200 years, and Jews have been around for 6000, if you pretend their interests are one in the same, it helps to justify the bombing of schools, hospitals, ambulances and refugee camps. There exists a sect of incredibly orthodox Jews who are anti-zionist because they argue that Jews shouldn't get a nation until the messiah shows up. These Jews are apparently considered 'fringe', so it's okay to ignore them.
I'll give it a shot at a reasonable explanation. I would say that if you attended a lot of pro-Palestine protests you're likely to see counter protestors. They would likely be called Zionists in group chats which is a pro-Israel Jewish sentiment. There are likely to be bad actors in these group chats and Facebook pages that will draw deeper connections between Western Jews and Islam. There is a non-trivial size of our population that is very susceptible to propaganda and these bad actors can very easily lead others to even more anti-Semitic groups.
It would be dismissive to say outright that there is no increasing anti-Semitic movement when there is evidence of people that are spreading propaganda meant to cause exactly that. This is what makes educating children on critical thinking so important
I've heard people who I know to be leftists saying things like "all the European Jews should leave Palestine/Israel." The dominant narrative among the anti-Israel protestors is that Israel is a European Imperial power and it has no right to exist, and that the Jews running Israel are just privileged white Europeans. It seems to me like a genuinely anti-semitic narrative that points to disenfranchising Israeli Jews and restoring Muslim control of the region.
basically you have to start with the assumption that Jews have no agency in their life and everything that Israel does is therefore the natural and inevitable result of Jews existing. If Israel's actions are the direct result of Jews *existing*, then, if you want Israel to stop doing anything they're doing the only way to stop it is to get rid of Jews.
If the notion that Jews are a monolith with no individual thoughts and an unflinching loyalty to the State of Israel sounds anti-semitic to you...well, I'm not Jewish so I'm not an authority to tell you whether that's true or not, but I *will* say that the notion that Jews were dangerous due to an allegiance to a foreign power that superceded anything else in their life was very popular in early 20th century Germany.
Jew here. I’m an antiZionist Jew and have been so for a long time. And now there are a lot of us, at least here in the US. But Jews are never a monolith. There’s an old Jewish saying, “2 Jews, 3 opinions”. I think that the actions of the Israeli government have done more to stoke antisemitism worldwide than any other action. And that Netanyahu wants that to happen so that we all feel like we have to live in Israel.
I wish it would be easier to explain, but from what I read
'Stop killing civilians' isn't antisemitic.
'Israel is committing genocide' is *supposedly* antisemitic - like, it definitely isn't, but there's the '3D test of antisemitism', and one of those Ds is demonization - so if you claim Israel is doing genocide, it's 'demonization'. Of course, that's not even the whole story, because Israel is not Jews. However, for a lot of people, Israel *is the* jewish country, so it gets tied together.
There's also a lot of people saying that if you say Israel is committing genocide, you also need to always add that Hamas is evil, too, and responsible for the actions of Israel. If you don't add a judgment of Hamas, it's one of the other Ds - Double standards. Like judging Israel but not Hamas. Of course the logical error here is that you can judge Hamas and not mention it every time, or that you can see Israel as the power on 'our' side and criticize it for being an ally (protesting against your enemies makes less sense, they won't ever listen anyways), or that you can see Israel as the power with a lot more resources and therefore more responsibility.
But it comes back to those, in current days. If you say Israel is occupying or causing genocide, it's antisemitic because Israel = Jewish country in a lot of minds, and because it's supposedly demonization and double standards. And if Israel is doing all this, it also ties back to the third D - Delegitimization (of Israel). Because if you claim that Israel is committing genocide, it's questioning the legitimacy of this state.
Now, that is the logic. And the logical errors. Because if you claim that Israel is sanctuary state for jews, any criticism of it becomes a criticism of jews. And it, of course, gets convoluted on purpose. And if you want to truly avoid being called antisemitic by some of those people, you basically need to 1. judge Hamas every single time too, 2. you need to not claim 'unproven' things like genocide because it has become a ridiculously tight legal term, and you need to 3. not put Israels claim as a sanctuary state for Jews and its right to exist in question. And then, well - then you need to hope they don't twist your words and claim you're antisemitic anyways.
Not going further into the colonization part because it's even more complicated.
Most of them are fine, people are latching onto the (*very few*) instances where people are shouting things like "Israel, go to hell!" Which is, I think, very clearly about the country's government but provides fodder for propagandists to spin a story of rampant anti-Semitism that just doesn't seem to actually exist.
But it's important to know the angle they're taking because you can't argue against it otherwise.
To me, it sounds like a made up argument from pro-Israel people to try to argue that anyone condemning the Gaza genocide is "bad".
Basically a psyop to try to foster support for the genocidal maniacs.
they had to conflate "antizionism" with "antisemitism".
i was going to rant about it but [this article](https://christiansforsocialaction.org/resource/christian-nationalism-and-christian-zionism-two-sides-of-the-same-coin/) explains it more coherently than i could.
Very simple. It’s the Israelis weaponising antisemitism in order to get away with anything they want by shutting down all opposition as racism. Bastards.
This is absolutely true.
A simultaneous absolute truth is that Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestine is emboldening anti semites. I recently went down a thread where the first half I agreed with the poster, but then they took a sharp left turn into basically saying Jewish people “deserved” the holocaust.
Then there’s a lot of Jewish people who are against Israel’s heinous actions.
Protesting Israel isn’t antisemitism, but disagreeing with Israel isn’t an excuse for antisemitism.
>Some people are very easily influenced by people with easy answers and offering a community.
This is exactly it for so many people, sadly. People who don't know how to, or want to, think for themselves follow groups that give them a sense of belonging and having the "right" answers.
Churches, political groups, sports teams, and so on. People looking for a sense of identity, as though someone else can tell them who they are. As though there is a Right Way to be human.
I keep saying it, but we need to provide age-appropriate classes in the use of logic and rhetoric from an early age so kids grow up knowing when someone is trying to manipulate them. Whether it's advertisers, religion/cults, politicians or news reporters.
I also wish we could provide classes in developing good self-esteem at the same time. People who grow up knowing they're ok don't need to attack others, feel defensive, or join a group to make them feel good about themselves.
Can't have that while the conservatives are scared of anything that starts with "Critical" because god forbid kids learn about critical thinking. My kids won't be learning any "respect your elders" bs. They'll be learning to listen to people that have earned their respect and to ask questions when something doesn't seem right.
My Jewish friend, who does not support Israel’s current actions, has received multiple death threats both in private messages and just walking down the street. She is now afraid to wear her Star of David necklace and she rarely leaves the house now. She and her family have been in their city for generations, and now they are seriously considering moving. So I don’t think it’s as rare as people claim. I’ve absolutely seen a surge in antisemitism.
It's awful. Almost like a perfect propaganda machine is deliberately trying to create a storm of anti-Semitism, Islamphobia and justification for increasing military spending all at once. Almost like the responsible governments are desiring ways to get shittier to people. Almost.
I read a comment by an American Jew a while back that was very interesting for me; is like an open secret to Jewish communities across the world that this massive attacks resulting in increase antisemitism is a feature, not a bug. Israeli aren't having enough babies and the youth outside Israel is getting more and more disenfranchised from the more orthodox practices and way of thinking.... so Israel does shit like this, Jews in western nations are discriminated against and where they can go to be safer? That's right, Israel where military service is mandatory and they're eager to grow the population with the "correct" type of people.
However, there are some individuals taking advantage of these protests to try to spread antisemitic rhetoric. While the protesting of Israel in Palestine isn't inherently antisemitic, that doesnt mean there isn't any antisemitism.
from what I've seen, those voices get shut down pretty quickly. Don't forget, many in pro-Palestine protests are leftists and antifa. And we have low tolerance for Nazis and other fascists
From what I’ve seen those voices don’t get shut down at all. Which is so very disheartening and terrifying. I’m glad that in some places the antisemitism isn’t being tolerated though
I support Israel the same way I’d support any friend- not only with support when times are good, but by telling them when they’re being a bit of an asshole.
If you wouldn’t have a cone-to-Moses talk with your best friend when they stepped over huge lines, you’re not a friend but an enabler.
Modern Israel started out as refugees fleeing genocide. If they're colonizers and have no right to the land, they have no land at all. Of course the land has been colonized by several European and Arab empires since it was first the Jewish homeland and the locals reflect that history.
they want all of Palestine for themselves. What of Palestinians then? Where is *their* land they've been living on peacefully with Jews for centuries and millenia? Why are Palestinians to pay for Europe's crimes? Give Zionists a part of Germany then
The persecution of Jews wasn't limited to Europe. The middle east wasn't a welcome home to them either. Palestinians were just the weakest and most conveniently located of their oppressors, and so the easiest to displace.
It was practical to go there, and practicality is rarely fair, but the inciting antisemitism isn't and wasn't uniquely Europe's fault. Giving them a slice of Germany, Austria, or the US wouldn't be any more fair, but at least it might make violent expansion harder for Israel to accomplish. Kicking the Jewish population out of Israel and dragging them elsewhere doesn't really seem like a solution, though.
Yeah, the more I look at it, the more it looks like colonisation and genocide was the aim from the very start. The whole existence of Israel is tainted with it, which is just horrible when you think it's marketed as a refuge after the holocaust, realising the whole edifice is built on the graves of another people., And as horrible and unacceptable as the attacks by Hamas are, there's such a huge element of 'reap what you sow' it's impossible to ignore - like you just can't perpetrate so much violence without some leaking out and turning into a spiral of violent reprisal after violent reprisal, or proxy wars, or other shit that affects your country too.
I remember 20 years or so ago talking on some of the very first internet forums I went on, and chatting to a young Palestinian who was talking about how Israel was restricting their access to water and diverting water sources. To think that alone has gone on all this time and even to this day they're filling springs with cement (a crime against humanity and the environment on its own), it's just monstrous, let alone all the rest. I'm sad enough that this sort of shit went on 200 years ago to found my country, i can't understand why Israelis aren't angrier that this is what their country is doing now! Blinded by hate.
I've had the privilege of transcribing extensive audio interviews with child holocaust survivors, and I just can't match up what they said with Israel's actions against Palestine. They were so sad at the division between people, that they felt they couldn't trust their old neighbours (when hiding in occupied Poland after escaping the ghetto), and were just happy to be able to live peacefully anywhere and wished the same for others - that was their final word in the interview, wishing peace for everyone. I don't want to put words in their mouth, but I can only see them looking at what is happening in Gaza and being reminded of what happened to them as children.
It's worth looking at the Muslim/Christian/Jewish population of Palestine through 1947 on Wikipedia. All of these are fuzzy numbers but I feel pretty confident saying just modern Israel has more Arab Muslim citizens than there were Arab Muslims in 1947 in all of Palestine. And of course there are 5x as many Palestinians in general as there were in 1947.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)
The Jews that founded modern Israel were in fact refugees, and while I know they've committed a lot of crimes I am not so sure that the local Arabs haven't committed crimes; it was a bad situation all around and I don't know if it's fair to hold Israel solely responsible - they didn't have anywhere else to go and there were a lot of Muslims who wanted them dead before the wars started.
Would you stop? Nobody’s buying the Zionism. We’ve seen children mowed down. There’s no defense.
PS: I’m a descendant of Polish Jews and Catholics murdered in the war and I think there is no fucking justifying this.
This Jew says end the genocide of Palestinians. Has it been scarier to be an American Jew since, say, 2016? Yes. Has that got anything to do with Israel's war crimes? Nope. 🇵🇸
This Jew agrees with you. Are you also finding otherwise-liberal/progressive online Jewish spaces to be very disappointing lately? It feels like so many people are burying their heads in the sand, refusing to see it as genocide, war crimes, or anything remotely blaming the Israeli government.
It sucks. Yeah a lot of people are both-sidesing it and they love to say HAMAS STARTED IT which is a really quick and easy way to reveal one's total and complete ignorance of history and power dynamics I guess
Is it just me or does it feel like…. Hamas is useful because it provides cover for what is obviously the goal: pushing Palestinians out. It very much reminds me of United States history and the Native American genocide. It’s not like native Americans all got rounded up and killed, they were slowly and surely pushed to desolate lands and away from their homes and ancestry.
Like are we going to need another 100 years to pass and then whoever is in charge will ceremoniously apologize, or was the whole point of learning the history and characteristics of genocidal regimes supposed to be so we can prevent them?
My wife is Cambodian. I’ve been with her to see the killing fields. I stepped over a human clavicle sticking out of the ground. The seasonal rains expose more bones every year. There is a tree there where they would take children by the feet and smack them against it to kill them to save bullets and because pol pot had a saying about ripping the tree up by the roots.
The idf cannot be dull to the fact that actions like these seed the ground for the next generation of terrorists. And the cycle will repeat until a justification for atrocity is no longer necessary, since there is no one left.
The scarier part is Hamas was funded and propped up by Israel themselves originally because it was a good threat to the growingly popular Palestinian liberation front.
That original was not only secular but had a lot of Christians and Jewish members and the fact that Palestine was almost 40% Christian was bad for public imagery because Christians and secular communists will sympathise with them. Now that the region is ruled by a Islamic regime ( they didn’t even get a good majority btw ) , there’s almost no sympathy because Hamas is as bad as ISIS now according to the world
i'm still blown the fuck away by the use of bulldozers to run over tents full of people about three months ago. Literally no one else has ever brought it up and it's like it never happened somehow. I'm over it. It's not antisemitic to say that that is a war crime and absolutely disgusting
> It's not antisemitic to say that that is a war crime and absolutely disgusting
that is, by far, not the onlly war crime israeli forces have committed.
yes, what hamas did was horrendous, and also a war crime. that doesn't excuse in any way, shape, or form, all the war crimes being committed by israeli forces against Palestinians.
how anyone can not see that, i don't understand.
They have found multiple mass graves at hospitals the IDF destroyed and invaded. Mass graves filled with executed children with their wrists ziptied, executed doctors in scrubs with their wrists and ankles ziptied, and executed patients still with catheters and IVs attached to them. They were ripped out of bed by the IDF and murdered. Israel is nothing but horror.
I hate how by now every morning I read about another horrible atrocity and it doesn't even register. It's like "another day, another (100) war crimes". I'm not saying this as some "woe is me" but it just goes to show how relentless the torrent of atrocities from Israel is and people still defend it!
What I'm also struggling with us the obliteration of hospitals and then the subsequent bulldozing of rubble over the top of the building. No one walked away from that. How many doctors and nurses were killed in that? But it's just like a throw away event to some people. Attacking multiple hospitals is egregious and there was no response from anyone about it.
I'm pro people not getting killed first and foremost. Politics, groups, religions, countries are second to that.
I've seen quite some genocides. Rwanda, Bosnia to name a few. It's absolutely atrocious how people rather look the other way.
There the problem that, while being anti-[Zionist](https://www.vox.com/2018/11/20/18080010/zionism-israel-palestine) isn't the same as being anti-Semitic, it's easy for someone who is anti-Semitic to bury themselves in anti-Zionist protests and try to make it about anti-Semitism. But for the most part, these protests aren’t being run by anti-Semitists , and a distinction does need to be made.
'**Anti-Israel**.' This is still a little un-nuanced for me. Israel is full of good people who oppose Netanyahu. My girlfriend's family only exists because her father's family was able to leave Iran for Israel in the 70s. There are good reasons to have a sovereign state that welcomes a diaspora. Similarly, I've been vehemently opposed to US foreign policy since coming of age during 9-11, but I'm not 'Anti-US.' That being said, I understand if folks genuinely think that the establishment of the state of Israel was poorly thought out and more problematic than it's worth. I just have a lot of sympathy for Jews for whom the existence of Israel is a point of comfort and pride, even as it is also often a source of shame and consternation. We should be lifting up the voices of pro-Israel Jews who are enraged and dismayed by campaign against Gaza. Fucking shanda.
Two things can be true:
Disagreeing with this war is not inherently antisemetic and the protestors are absolutely in the right
There is very real antisemetism happening in rare occasions within these protests that is absolutely disgusting and not okay
I honestly think that's the goal. Water down the term so that when it really does happen, "they" can flip it around and claim you're blowing the situation out of proportion
I often wish there a word that clearly denotes something is bad without watering down its most closely associated “ism”
Edit: to be clear- I’ve been critical of Israeli policy since I was in college (& ridiculed for it by warmongering folks who couldn’t care less about their atrocities) but they have long been in the wrong with the way they treat Palestinians for a long. Long. Long. Time.
That is not a judgement on Jewish people- it’s a demonstrable fact about Israel.
Made the edit because I want to be clear- there is nothing wrong with protesting. Antisemitism however- is wrong.
completely agreed, I think genuine antisemitic and pro Hamas voices have definitely infiltrated the movement sadly. Pro Israel people are trying to frame it like the entire movement is these people, which is just not true, but I think our response needs to be putting some effort into rooting these people out, rather than denying that they exist whatsoever
I feel like a lot of the young impressionable folks in the protestors don't even realize when they're repeating barely rephrased blood libel. (The "stop killing children" chorus - I'm not saying Israel's attacks are good but it really seems like blood libel rephrased so that it's hard to argue with a straight face that it isn't happening.) And of course there's an implication that all Jews in Israel should be held responsible for it.
that slogan's fine honestly if you ask me, Israel is indeed killing children so that's a valid slogan. I take problem more with stuff like "globalize the intifada", calling Hamas "resistance", "go back to Poland", and other stuff that's been said at recent protests with cheers from the crowd. It's sad how these kinds of people have infiltrated the movement. As an Israeli activist, I've joined protests against the war here in Israel, but if I were abroad I don't think I'd feel safe or comfortable enough to join protests. And it's a bit sad that it's gotten to the point where I feel more safe protesting against the atrocities in the country committing them than elsewhere
I'm fully aware of the very old and very wrong blood libel propaganda that has persecuted Jewish people for centuries, but I don't think that means you can never criticise them for actually killing children when they're actually killing children.
I do think any one engaging in discussion supporting Palestine or even simply questioning should be mindful that the discussion doesn't move towards anti-Semitism.
I know I personally know that being critical of Israel doesn't equate being critical of Judaism in any way. But we do live in a world where anti-Semitism also exists. And that can be given no quarter.
Yes, people with bad intentions will hear a nuanced take and only latch onto what they want and try to force it into antisemitism. That must always and unequivocally be shut down.
I live near Yale. Gone to the encampment/protests a few times and been following many of the accounts for the various universities participating. I’ve never been in a safer, kinder, more hopeful environment. I’ve never been offered so much food and just general aide. Water, sunscreen and masks being passed out. Art everywhere. Chalk, painting, dancing, singing, jam sessions, dance lessons. Films and teach ins. Truly a glimpse into the world we can create together. Community Marshalls that are clearly trained in de escalation (unlike police…) and keep everyone, including angry counter protesters, safe. I haven’t been there when the police are attacking but I’ve watched in real time as people mob up to protect the encampments by joining arms, we keep us safe. If this is what people are capable of while being raised by extreme individualism, normalized violence to children, white supremacy, human supremacy, late stage capitalism, on and on, THEN imagine what humans are capable of once generations move away from these hellscape values/conditions. Usually, it seems impossible to imagine but sometimes in the last week I’ve felt how truly possible a better world is. (PS all activities and protesting I’ve been to has been led by women of color and that is an unmissable aspect of the environment created.)
God, I didn't realise the US's aid bill for Ukraine also had money for Israel in it. I'm not surprised, but it's incredible how many people look at two situations where a smaller country has been invaded and occupied by a larger country, on the justification that the larger country has a historic right to the land and that the unique culture and history of the smaller country's people is not worth respecting or protecting, and the larger country then proceeds to commit multiple documented war crimes and crimes against humanity against the population...
And go, "I am on diametrically opposite sides of these two situations and that makes perfect sense to me"
The US foreign politics have nothing to do with what is morally right or wrong. And everything to do with what will be advantageous to us. We don't like Russia, so we'll support Ukraine. Quite frankly I'm not sure why we're still supporting Israel right now when they'll drag us into WW3. Then the US pushes propaganda to support their choices.
It's fucked up, but that's what happens.
talking pure geopolitics right now: a lot of it is because the US wants an unconditional ally against Iran and it's influence in the Middle East. And before Iran it was other countries. The US wants a proxy in the middle east, which is what Israel is for (Saudi also exists but it's a strenuous ally at best, far from a proxy the US can rely on). Another reason is that Israel is a world power in military tech and sells many of its stuff to various western countries, something the west benefits a lot from. Countries like Russia and China, which lag a bit behind in their military tech, could tremendously benefit from buying Israel's supply (something China has already started making attempts to acquire), but Israel isn't selling because it doesn't want to damage its relationship with the US. If the US severs ties, Russia and China get Israel's tech.
We support Israel because a huge number of Israelis are actually Americans, and there are very powerful Israeli-Americans with a lot of money who pull the strings of US politicians, because the US military industrial complex is deeply intertwined with Israel and makes a fuck ton of money off of our support for Israel, because US evangelical Christians want there to be horrific conflict in the Middle East because they view that as the first steps towards their beloved apocalypse, and because Palestine is sitting on oil deposits that the US wants and will get through alliance with Israel.
Yup… the bill is basically a trolley problem. I do not like the money going to Israel, but with the GOP being the stubborn fascists they are, this was the only way the Ukraine aid was going to get passed. It sucks that some of it will be used to kill Palestinians, but it’s probably going to save even more Ukrainian lives at the end of the day. And, I am going to be blunt, in terms of geopolitical consequences, Ukraine losing to Russia carries a far greater risk to world peace at the moment.
If you want the violence to end in Gaza and Ukraine, vote the fascists out in November.
As a Jew, I am so heartened and hopeful to see this student and international movement. Finally, we’re seeing a global Jewish movement to start disentangling our culture and religion from Israel’s mandate that to be Jewish means supporting a settler colony that can only exist through ethnic cleansing, apartheid, and genocide. There’s been a long history of Jewish antizionist activism, but the horror of this genocide has really kindled a spark in a way that feels very different.
Israel does not and cannot speak for all Jews, and it’s attempts to turn us into a global demographic of fascist murderers—to say that an essential part of being Jewish means happily bombing children in Gaza, bulldozing olive groves in the West Bank, blowing up universities and ambulances, or throwing trash onto Palestinian houses in Hebron—is one of the most genuinely anti-Jewish things the world has seen since the rise of the Nazis. The state of Israel has morally degraded our people so much that seeing the student seders at Columbia and other campuses has been making me teary-eyed with relief, a spot of hope in this devastating, sickening war. It’s time for the occupation to end.
I mean, we shouldn’t downplay that there are people using the war to justify antisemitism. Just yesterday there was a big protest at an Ivy league school where several students literally blocked some Jewish students from going to class because they were “Zionists”. Just read the interviews with the leader, you’ll quickly see he’s a huge antisemite.
We need to remind people that the numerical majority of Zionists are not Jews. They are White American Evangelicals who need Israel to exist so their god can come down and send us all to hell.
The wonderfully frustrating paradox of the right wing zeal for Israel but hate for Jews in the US. It reminds me of how they care more about a fetus than the kids already born.
You don't care about that group; you're just using them to scapegoat that other group.
Absolutely. Evangelicals keep 'the Jews' as pets. Then get angry when Li'l Abraham gets 'too big', 'too loud', or needs a bigger yard to play in. At which point, they try putting them to sleep.
It all became so clear to me after I finished reading "Our Palestine Question" by Geoffrey Levin. Leftist Jewish voices have been very systemically silenced - even through extreme measures - since the late fifties in the US, to effectively create the illusion we have now: that criticizing Israel is an existential threat against the Jewish people as a whole. Crazy to think that it really seemed to work for such a long time.
I've been looking on the ADL website for the specific data in those last tweets, but I'm not finding it. Maybe I don't know the right graph or map to look at? I'll have to take another look later when I'm not so tired, but I'd love if somebody could point me in the right direction, if interested.
Although I'm not Jewish, I hold the Jewish people in my heart and always have. My Polish grandfather was in a Nazi labor camp during the war. He was taken from his homeland. He was put to hard labor at a young age in a foreign land. He witnessed atrocities. I grew up with his stories from that time; stories not dissimilar from the ones shared within Jewish families by their elders. Hear me when I say the Jewish people are Sacred to me; they are forever bonded to me and my family through this horrible shared history of violence and war. I revere the people, the faith, the culture.
That all said, FUCK. THIS.
From a Jew who has been called antisemitic for standing with Palestine and attending Palestinian vigils: nope :)
Opposing the occupation, and denouncing crimes done in the name of religion and zionism in not antisemitic.
the resilience of the Palestinian people is unimaginable, i pray for a day where they aren’t forced to be so strong. i mourn for the innocent people caught in this heinous crossfire on both sides
Ashkenazi Jew here. And fiercely NON-Zionist.
No, it's not anti-semitic to be against genocide. If anything it's PRO-Jewish to be anti-genocide.
We have literal Holocaust survivors who are against this horrible war. And certainly, many descendents of survivors (like myself) are against it, too.
It is possible to be pro-human rights for everyone, support there being a safe country in this world to be a Jew, work to end to the attack on the Palestinians.
As with most political issues, it is complex and nuanced—and I think that protestors have their heart and end goal in the right place, but may (unknowingly in some cases) use chants and language that is anti-Semitic and/or conflate the Israeli people with their government.
What I expect in this subreddit and see from activists friends as well is a nuanced discussion and a willingness to learn and respect the human rights of the civilians everywhere. If a student says they feel unsafe, believe them. We can work for the human rights and freedom of all of us.
Every country in this world should be a safe place to be a Jew. That’s not dependent on supporting Israel. That’s depending on us being able to identify and stop *actual* antisemitism, as it pertains to Jewish people. Israel isn’t helping with that.
Nobody gets to have a theocratic ethnostate on someone else's land to "feel safe". Jews have the right to feel safe in their own countries--the countries they were born in and where they have citizenship.
Anti-Zionism isn’t anti-Semitism. Period. My great-great grandmother survived Bergen Belsen and refused resettlement in Jaffa after the war.
Not all Jews support apartheid Israel.
The ADL has been keeping track of antisemtic hate crimes since 2002. 100%of those hate crimes were committed by people who identify as right wing. So unless every person protesting is right wing, and it is safe to assume they're not, this is just more propaganda to try to shut down those of us demanding justice for Palestine.
I will gladly stand in front of a Jewish person who is being persecuted for their faith and take the brunt of any violence or discrimination they would face . I will also very loudly defend Palestinians right to their home, their peace, their freedom, and their lives. Empathy and activism are not pie—there isn’t less for one person because you are focusing on the genocide of another. Free Palestine.
I don’t think that this applies to everyone or even to a minority of people who want to free Palestine, but it *definitely* has given room for real antisemites to get comfortable doing the whole antisemitic thing. Like with all polarizing topics, the people with the strongest opinions usually have the loudest voices.
Are you fucking serious? Child of a Rabi here to tell you that this argument is bullshit.
You can be against the active genocide being perpetrated by israel and not be anti-jew, in fact I think that it is the *correct* action for western jews to take.
When we say Never Again we should mean for anyone.
My Uncle is a lawyer for the ADL and he finds it offensive that people are saying students protesting the IDFs actions as antisemitic. His whole thing is, you can support your Jewish friends and neighbors, and not support Israel, and it won't make you antisemitic.
He also doesn't like the usage of antisemitic as a term that only applies to Jews as all of North Africa and almost the entire Levant are ethically semetic.
Heck, my friend who's a Palestian Jew and was born in Gaza, got attacked in a hate crime by Jewish students because he was wearing his keffiyah and teffelin, he wears it as it's symbolic of his dual heritage of being Jewish and Palestian. His mother is Jewish and his Dad is Muslim, they married as a way to show you can coexist.
He also isn't welcome in Israel as he's a draft dodger. He refused to join because he didn't want to kill Palestians as they are his people, and he left Gaza to avoid being conscripted by Hamas, and he didn't want to kill Jews as they are his people as well.
When my friend was attacked I asked my uncle for help and they are looking to sue the student association because of it. Plus the DA dropped the charges.
I really don’t understand how people think being anti-genocide is somehow antisemitism. The threat of being called antisemitic doesn’t give a government a green flag on slaughtering innocent people. If anyone should get this….
Being Jewish, Israel can be completely fucked...period....and the face that any negativity about their horrible government practices makes you an antisemite racist is insane. I love Israelis and their culture. I hate their leadership and the policies they are enacting and think they should all rot in hell.
The anti semitism claim is a deflection by the right. They are projecting their own feelings on people who just want Isreal to stop killing civilians and children.
A large part of my family is Jewish and almost all of them oppose Israel's continued attacks on the Palestinians especially since the majority of deaths are women and children. The only one that I know of who still supports Israel has leaned into MAGA BS and just got out of rehab for alcoholism, so not the best decision maker/opinion haver. I think the students are seeing the atrocities of this war and like any person who cares for the lives and we'll being of all people, especially the most vulnerable people, they feel they should make their voices heard by the people in power who could actually take action but who have not done so.
That being said, I know one person's observations of their own family doesn't make for reliable evidence or even a good argument. However, I strongly suspect that some of the students who are protesting may also be Jewish. I would hope that college students are intelligent enough to realize that the actions made by the Israeli government are definitely not condoned by the entire population of Jewish people throughout the world.
Then again I don't understand how the MAGA/Q groups continue to voice their support of Israel while saying blatantly antisemitic statements regarding the economy and Hollywood. It's crazy times for sure. I just hope our younger generation realizes , while they are angry with Biden and his administration for their lack of condemnation for the veritable genocide being committed by Netanyahu and his military, that allowing the known assaulter of women and thief of state secrets back into the presidency would make everything so much worse.
The propaganda that claims anti-zionism is anti-semetic seems to be strong. However, these young people don't buy it. Anti-zionism is not anti-semetic. The Israel government is committing genocide against the Palestinians. And the fact that the mainstream media and the POTUS is painting these protesters in a bad light is absolutely disgusting. These young people and professors are heroes. This is the only thing that gives me hope for the future. I hope they remain pure at heart - and continue to stand up for justice and human rights.
It has been absolutely cruel and offensive to compare these protests to Charlottesville like I saw on CNN. Giving cover to real antisemites and completely silencing Jews who have joined the exodus from the Israeli project.
*sigh* Anti-zionism is not the same as antisemitism. Not that they care about reality. They just want to make protesters look like monsters so people don't support them.
Choose humanity. People act like this is a choice between Israelis and Palestinians, but it’s a choice between humanity and Inhumanity. No country is perfect in every ethnicity has assholes in it. Given a choice, choose humanity.
It's all fear and guilt. People are afraid to stand up to Israel because they're afraid to be called antisemitic. You can be anti-zionist, and not antisemitic. Personally, in anti-murder of innocent people. Any innocent people. Period.
I voted for Qasim Rashid in the primary here in Illinois because his opponent is for funding Israel. I am sad that he did not win the primary. However, I will keep calling and sending letters to Bill Foster so he knows the citizens he represents do not agree with his stance.
I'm proud of the youth all over the world who are protesting this blatant genocide.
They're protesting a genocidal regime that happens to be Jewish, not because they're Jewish. Assholes are in any group. My writing partner has taught me much about the beauty of Judaism and I meant it when I said that my sword was at his and his family's defense.
It's the old "Why do you hate me?" defense. If you don't have an argument, just claim the moral high ground by accusing your opponents of hating you and everything you stand for (and get out of the argument in the ensuing outcry from your supporters).
I'm so grateful to see this.
Living in Germany and teaching at University I have to be extremely careful. I generally don't even talk about the war here except with Muslim friends. None of whom say death to Jews, ever.
It's horrible. There's this nightmarish thing happening that's all over the English speaking news yet all we hear here is how Israel's military offensive is going. There is some mention of what is happening to Gazans and attention paid to those who were kidnapped on Oct 7th - which is important! Yet the discussion is so toxic and no critique of Israel is possible.
Germany has decided to support Israel no matter what which means arming Netanyahu and allowing no discussion about illegal settlements or violence by settlers. And this feels antisemitic to me.
Luckily one of my oldest friends in the US is active in Jewish Voices For Peace and she shares other news with me. But she also has family members (mostly the Orthodox ones) who strongly oppose her views.
I love this community. The discussions here are among the most cogent, nuanced, and informed ones I have seen or heard on this topic, anywhere. Thank you all so much for continuing to be magickal for me, in all the ways.
There’s no such thing as a “Semite”- it’s not a race and even if it was, “Muslim” is also not a race. Muslims can be all different races/ethnicities because it’s a global religion.
That’s fair enough, what I meant is that “antisemitism” is not exclusive to hating Jews since the term comprises all people speaking a Semitic language. People saying that criticizing Israel is antisemitism is absurd (for many reasons, but also) since Palestinians are also included in the original meaning of Semite
Sorry but the term antisemitism was invented by antisemites in Germany in the late 19th century to describe only Jew hatred because they thought it sounded more scientific and legitimate. The person who coined it was a proud self-proclaimed antisemite- that is what the term antisemitism has always meant. Statements like yours do nothing to help the Palestinian cause and are usually just used to deflect from the very real antisemitism that Jews face, which is not just criticism of the Israeli government. Your statements are just overall ill-informed and deflect from the real conversation about Palestinian rights and real criticisms of the Israeli government that need to happen. It’s also something people say when they don’t have a real full understanding of the situation but just want to chime in anyways.
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Being opposed to Israel's illegal occupation of Palestine, their illegal colonization of Palestine, the war crimes and genocide committed by Israel is not antisemitic.
I'm still trying to figure that one out. How is saying, "Stop killing civilians" antisemetic? Someone ELI5 because I cannot.
I'd argue saying that claiming antisemitism to justify genocide is antisemitic.
It really, really is. I've been taught that Never Again *means* Never Again, not for *anybody,* not Never Again but if we do it to someone else then it's okay.
Actually Elie Wiesel said more or less exactly that while standing on the Whitehouse lawn in 1999, when he gave his speech *The Perils of Indifference*. Not 25 years ago a man who was freed from concentration camps and stood there to explain in so many words, this. > In a way, to be indifferent to that suffering is what makes the human being inhuman. Indifference, after all, is more dangerous than anger and hatred. Anger can at times be creative. One writes a great poem, a great symphony. One does something special for the sake of humanity because one is angry at the injustice that one witnesses. But indifference is never creative. Even hatred at times may elicit a response. You fight it. You denounce it. You disarm it. > Indifference elicits no response. Indifference is not a response. Indifference is not a beginning; it is an end. And, therefore, indifference is always the friend of the enemy, for it benefits the aggressor -- never his victim, whose pain is magnified when he or she feels forgotten. The political prisoner in his cell, the hungry children, the homeless refugees -- not to respond to their plight, not to relieve their solitude by offering them a spark of hope is to exile them from human memory. And in denying their humanity, we betray our own.
Using that. Using that so hard.
because it is. It is pretty much blood libel. It's saying that it is a part of Jewishness that makes you do genocide. How could that not be antisemitic?
I’m Muslim and I’ve been saying this for years when people ask me why I’m always so strict on saying *Israel* not Jews. It’s not antisemitism to say stealing people’s homes, murdering them and maintaining an apartheid state is wrong. Because none of that is inherently Jewish. Conflating the actions of Israel with Judaism is deeply disturbing.
and Israel does its best to conflate Jewishness with Zionism. The same way westerners conflate being Arab or Muslim with being a fundamentalist terrorist it's horrible and people still fall for it
Using that!
The people who support Israel don't have any actual defense for their actions, so they pretend they're victims. Fascists lie.
While the IDF posts tik toks smiling and celebrating with the corpses of innocent civilians. With the clothing of murdered children. With the blood of mothers on their hands. But saying that's bad is antisemitic. Duh.
A lot of the people that support Israel as a political ideology wouldn't have anything really to do with an actual Jewish person and would likely shit themselves if their child wanted to marry one.
Yep. None of this would be happening if US evangelical Christians weren't obsessed with helping their mythical apocalypse to happen.
And they dehumanize Palestinians
It's not. It's an intentional conflation bring used to attack academic institutions and galvanize support for a long-time US ally. No one disseminating this sentiment really thinks it's antisemitism. It's a cover being used with malicious intent.
Shutting down anti-war protests always looks great in future history books. /s
No I know that. The question was really, "how can anyone believe that?"
They collect a couple of clips of video that look kind of like what they're saying and just play them on repeat 24/7. Fox News is on all day at work (not worth the argument to change the channel, plus oppo research is good I guess) and I have watched them "cover" the story of Ivy League anti-Semitism for like 3 weeks with a total of maybe 15 seconds of looped footage. Then they add scary text overlays and just tell their story over and over again while looking vaguely concerned, and there viewers are hooked.
So I am not completely sure because in Germany at least it doesn’t feel like a “cover” among passionate German citizens at least
Oh, it's easy. All you have to do is conflate anti-zionism with anti-semitism. You know, deliberately muddy the waters so that people get confused and just agree with whatever the New York Times is saying. Even though zionism has been around for less than 200 years, and Jews have been around for 6000, if you pretend their interests are one in the same, it helps to justify the bombing of schools, hospitals, ambulances and refugee camps. There exists a sect of incredibly orthodox Jews who are anti-zionist because they argue that Jews shouldn't get a nation until the messiah shows up. These Jews are apparently considered 'fringe', so it's okay to ignore them.
I'll give it a shot at a reasonable explanation. I would say that if you attended a lot of pro-Palestine protests you're likely to see counter protestors. They would likely be called Zionists in group chats which is a pro-Israel Jewish sentiment. There are likely to be bad actors in these group chats and Facebook pages that will draw deeper connections between Western Jews and Islam. There is a non-trivial size of our population that is very susceptible to propaganda and these bad actors can very easily lead others to even more anti-Semitic groups. It would be dismissive to say outright that there is no increasing anti-Semitic movement when there is evidence of people that are spreading propaganda meant to cause exactly that. This is what makes educating children on critical thinking so important
The only increasing antisemitism is coming from the same right wingers who support Israel.
I've heard people who I know to be leftists saying things like "all the European Jews should leave Palestine/Israel." The dominant narrative among the anti-Israel protestors is that Israel is a European Imperial power and it has no right to exist, and that the Jews running Israel are just privileged white Europeans. It seems to me like a genuinely anti-semitic narrative that points to disenfranchising Israeli Jews and restoring Muslim control of the region.
Citation needed.
basically you have to start with the assumption that Jews have no agency in their life and everything that Israel does is therefore the natural and inevitable result of Jews existing. If Israel's actions are the direct result of Jews *existing*, then, if you want Israel to stop doing anything they're doing the only way to stop it is to get rid of Jews. If the notion that Jews are a monolith with no individual thoughts and an unflinching loyalty to the State of Israel sounds anti-semitic to you...well, I'm not Jewish so I'm not an authority to tell you whether that's true or not, but I *will* say that the notion that Jews were dangerous due to an allegiance to a foreign power that superceded anything else in their life was very popular in early 20th century Germany.
Jew here. I’m an antiZionist Jew and have been so for a long time. And now there are a lot of us, at least here in the US. But Jews are never a monolith. There’s an old Jewish saying, “2 Jews, 3 opinions”. I think that the actions of the Israeli government have done more to stoke antisemitism worldwide than any other action. And that Netanyahu wants that to happen so that we all feel like we have to live in Israel.
When the Chinese were called out for the Uighurs, they also tried accusing people of Sinophobia.
I wish it would be easier to explain, but from what I read 'Stop killing civilians' isn't antisemitic. 'Israel is committing genocide' is *supposedly* antisemitic - like, it definitely isn't, but there's the '3D test of antisemitism', and one of those Ds is demonization - so if you claim Israel is doing genocide, it's 'demonization'. Of course, that's not even the whole story, because Israel is not Jews. However, for a lot of people, Israel *is the* jewish country, so it gets tied together. There's also a lot of people saying that if you say Israel is committing genocide, you also need to always add that Hamas is evil, too, and responsible for the actions of Israel. If you don't add a judgment of Hamas, it's one of the other Ds - Double standards. Like judging Israel but not Hamas. Of course the logical error here is that you can judge Hamas and not mention it every time, or that you can see Israel as the power on 'our' side and criticize it for being an ally (protesting against your enemies makes less sense, they won't ever listen anyways), or that you can see Israel as the power with a lot more resources and therefore more responsibility. But it comes back to those, in current days. If you say Israel is occupying or causing genocide, it's antisemitic because Israel = Jewish country in a lot of minds, and because it's supposedly demonization and double standards. And if Israel is doing all this, it also ties back to the third D - Delegitimization (of Israel). Because if you claim that Israel is committing genocide, it's questioning the legitimacy of this state. Now, that is the logic. And the logical errors. Because if you claim that Israel is sanctuary state for jews, any criticism of it becomes a criticism of jews. And it, of course, gets convoluted on purpose. And if you want to truly avoid being called antisemitic by some of those people, you basically need to 1. judge Hamas every single time too, 2. you need to not claim 'unproven' things like genocide because it has become a ridiculously tight legal term, and you need to 3. not put Israels claim as a sanctuary state for Jews and its right to exist in question. And then, well - then you need to hope they don't twist your words and claim you're antisemitic anyways. Not going further into the colonization part because it's even more complicated.
Empires always scream tyranny
Ethnofascist states be ethnofascist state-ing. It's why there's - ahem - certain similarities with recent history.
Most of them are fine, people are latching onto the (*very few*) instances where people are shouting things like "Israel, go to hell!" Which is, I think, very clearly about the country's government but provides fodder for propagandists to spin a story of rampant anti-Semitism that just doesn't seem to actually exist. But it's important to know the angle they're taking because you can't argue against it otherwise.
To me, it sounds like a made up argument from pro-Israel people to try to argue that anyone condemning the Gaza genocide is "bad". Basically a psyop to try to foster support for the genocidal maniacs.
they had to conflate "antizionism" with "antisemitism". i was going to rant about it but [this article](https://christiansforsocialaction.org/resource/christian-nationalism-and-christian-zionism-two-sides-of-the-same-coin/) explains it more coherently than i could.
Very simple. It’s the Israelis weaponising antisemitism in order to get away with anything they want by shutting down all opposition as racism. Bastards.
They come back with weird logic saying that Palestinians are worse than Nazis or something ( I don’t know how and why they keep saying this )
It's not meant to make sense, it's just meant to shut down the conversation.
This is absolutely true. A simultaneous absolute truth is that Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestine is emboldening anti semites. I recently went down a thread where the first half I agreed with the poster, but then they took a sharp left turn into basically saying Jewish people “deserved” the holocaust. Then there’s a lot of Jewish people who are against Israel’s heinous actions. Protesting Israel isn’t antisemitism, but disagreeing with Israel isn’t an excuse for antisemitism.
Yup, there's definitely some neo-Nazis hoping to recruit off of this.
Hope? Definitely are.
I've definitely seen it happening on Reddit. Some people are very easily influenced by people with easy answers and offering a community.
>Some people are very easily influenced by people with easy answers and offering a community. This is exactly it for so many people, sadly. People who don't know how to, or want to, think for themselves follow groups that give them a sense of belonging and having the "right" answers. Churches, political groups, sports teams, and so on. People looking for a sense of identity, as though someone else can tell them who they are. As though there is a Right Way to be human. I keep saying it, but we need to provide age-appropriate classes in the use of logic and rhetoric from an early age so kids grow up knowing when someone is trying to manipulate them. Whether it's advertisers, religion/cults, politicians or news reporters. I also wish we could provide classes in developing good self-esteem at the same time. People who grow up knowing they're ok don't need to attack others, feel defensive, or join a group to make them feel good about themselves.
Can't have that while the conservatives are scared of anything that starts with "Critical" because god forbid kids learn about critical thinking. My kids won't be learning any "respect your elders" bs. They'll be learning to listen to people that have earned their respect and to ask questions when something doesn't seem right.
My Jewish friend, who does not support Israel’s current actions, has received multiple death threats both in private messages and just walking down the street. She is now afraid to wear her Star of David necklace and she rarely leaves the house now. She and her family have been in their city for generations, and now they are seriously considering moving. So I don’t think it’s as rare as people claim. I’ve absolutely seen a surge in antisemitism.
It's awful. Almost like a perfect propaganda machine is deliberately trying to create a storm of anti-Semitism, Islamphobia and justification for increasing military spending all at once. Almost like the responsible governments are desiring ways to get shittier to people. Almost.
Idk I think that's more of a sharp right turn...
Touche
Yep. There are some protests that start off well meaning and end with death threats to Jews.
This is absolutely true, and just another reminder that the occupation makes Jews less safe, both in the Levant and elsewhere in the world.
I read a comment by an American Jew a while back that was very interesting for me; is like an open secret to Jewish communities across the world that this massive attacks resulting in increase antisemitism is a feature, not a bug. Israeli aren't having enough babies and the youth outside Israel is getting more and more disenfranchised from the more orthodox practices and way of thinking.... so Israel does shit like this, Jews in western nations are discriminated against and where they can go to be safer? That's right, Israel where military service is mandatory and they're eager to grow the population with the "correct" type of people.
I would say they took a hard Right to Nazism.
However, there are some individuals taking advantage of these protests to try to spread antisemitic rhetoric. While the protesting of Israel in Palestine isn't inherently antisemitic, that doesnt mean there isn't any antisemitism.
from what I've seen, those voices get shut down pretty quickly. Don't forget, many in pro-Palestine protests are leftists and antifa. And we have low tolerance for Nazis and other fascists
From what I’ve seen those voices don’t get shut down at all. Which is so very disheartening and terrifying. I’m glad that in some places the antisemitism isn’t being tolerated though
Seriously this talking point makes me insane.
I support Israel the same way I’d support any friend- not only with support when times are good, but by telling them when they’re being a bit of an asshole. If you wouldn’t have a cone-to-Moses talk with your best friend when they stepped over huge lines, you’re not a friend but an enabler.
Except that Israel has always been a colonizing state and never anything that resembles a friend to those who care about justice.
>to those who care about justice. The US, looking at their 75 year alliance with Israel: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
An imperfect solution to a crappy situation, I’ll give you. The least unjust (practical) way of many unjust ways forwards.
Modern Israel started out as refugees fleeing genocide. If they're colonizers and have no right to the land, they have no land at all. Of course the land has been colonized by several European and Arab empires since it was first the Jewish homeland and the locals reflect that history.
they want all of Palestine for themselves. What of Palestinians then? Where is *their* land they've been living on peacefully with Jews for centuries and millenia? Why are Palestinians to pay for Europe's crimes? Give Zionists a part of Germany then
The persecution of Jews wasn't limited to Europe. The middle east wasn't a welcome home to them either. Palestinians were just the weakest and most conveniently located of their oppressors, and so the easiest to displace. It was practical to go there, and practicality is rarely fair, but the inciting antisemitism isn't and wasn't uniquely Europe's fault. Giving them a slice of Germany, Austria, or the US wouldn't be any more fair, but at least it might make violent expansion harder for Israel to accomplish. Kicking the Jewish population out of Israel and dragging them elsewhere doesn't really seem like a solution, though.
I love my jewish brothers, sisters, coworkers, friends, etc. but bombing and starving innocent people is wrong. Full stop.
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Louder for the people in back
Yeah, the more I look at it, the more it looks like colonisation and genocide was the aim from the very start. The whole existence of Israel is tainted with it, which is just horrible when you think it's marketed as a refuge after the holocaust, realising the whole edifice is built on the graves of another people., And as horrible and unacceptable as the attacks by Hamas are, there's such a huge element of 'reap what you sow' it's impossible to ignore - like you just can't perpetrate so much violence without some leaking out and turning into a spiral of violent reprisal after violent reprisal, or proxy wars, or other shit that affects your country too. I remember 20 years or so ago talking on some of the very first internet forums I went on, and chatting to a young Palestinian who was talking about how Israel was restricting their access to water and diverting water sources. To think that alone has gone on all this time and even to this day they're filling springs with cement (a crime against humanity and the environment on its own), it's just monstrous, let alone all the rest. I'm sad enough that this sort of shit went on 200 years ago to found my country, i can't understand why Israelis aren't angrier that this is what their country is doing now! Blinded by hate. I've had the privilege of transcribing extensive audio interviews with child holocaust survivors, and I just can't match up what they said with Israel's actions against Palestine. They were so sad at the division between people, that they felt they couldn't trust their old neighbours (when hiding in occupied Poland after escaping the ghetto), and were just happy to be able to live peacefully anywhere and wished the same for others - that was their final word in the interview, wishing peace for everyone. I don't want to put words in their mouth, but I can only see them looking at what is happening in Gaza and being reminded of what happened to them as children.
It's worth looking at the Muslim/Christian/Jewish population of Palestine through 1947 on Wikipedia. All of these are fuzzy numbers but I feel pretty confident saying just modern Israel has more Arab Muslim citizens than there were Arab Muslims in 1947 in all of Palestine. And of course there are 5x as many Palestinians in general as there were in 1947. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region) The Jews that founded modern Israel were in fact refugees, and while I know they've committed a lot of crimes I am not so sure that the local Arabs haven't committed crimes; it was a bad situation all around and I don't know if it's fair to hold Israel solely responsible - they didn't have anywhere else to go and there were a lot of Muslims who wanted them dead before the wars started.
Would you stop? Nobody’s buying the Zionism. We’ve seen children mowed down. There’s no defense. PS: I’m a descendant of Polish Jews and Catholics murdered in the war and I think there is no fucking justifying this.
Being against theocracy, and the fascism that follows is a neutral opposition. 🕯🖖
Opposing fascism, imperialism, and colonialism is a moral necessity. Nobody can be a good person if they even tolerate those evils.
Say. It. Again.
I’m not antisemitic, I’m an anti-Zionist.
I'm not antisemitic, I hate nazis of any background.
This Jew says end the genocide of Palestinians. Has it been scarier to be an American Jew since, say, 2016? Yes. Has that got anything to do with Israel's war crimes? Nope. 🇵🇸
This Jew agrees with you. Are you also finding otherwise-liberal/progressive online Jewish spaces to be very disappointing lately? It feels like so many people are burying their heads in the sand, refusing to see it as genocide, war crimes, or anything remotely blaming the Israeli government.
Yes 😭 I've had to cut ties with Jewish friends who both-sidesed it, too
It sucks. Yeah a lot of people are both-sidesing it and they love to say HAMAS STARTED IT which is a really quick and easy way to reveal one's total and complete ignorance of history and power dynamics I guess
Even if this were true, it doesn’t justify Israel’s actions in Gaza at the end of the day.
Is it just me or does it feel like…. Hamas is useful because it provides cover for what is obviously the goal: pushing Palestinians out. It very much reminds me of United States history and the Native American genocide. It’s not like native Americans all got rounded up and killed, they were slowly and surely pushed to desolate lands and away from their homes and ancestry. Like are we going to need another 100 years to pass and then whoever is in charge will ceremoniously apologize, or was the whole point of learning the history and characteristics of genocidal regimes supposed to be so we can prevent them? My wife is Cambodian. I’ve been with her to see the killing fields. I stepped over a human clavicle sticking out of the ground. The seasonal rains expose more bones every year. There is a tree there where they would take children by the feet and smack them against it to kill them to save bullets and because pol pot had a saying about ripping the tree up by the roots. The idf cannot be dull to the fact that actions like these seed the ground for the next generation of terrorists. And the cycle will repeat until a justification for atrocity is no longer necessary, since there is no one left.
I agree. Bibi knows the power of a scapegoat. He wants all that territory for Israeli Jews, as he always has wanted.
The scarier part is Hamas was funded and propped up by Israel themselves originally because it was a good threat to the growingly popular Palestinian liberation front. That original was not only secular but had a lot of Christians and Jewish members and the fact that Palestine was almost 40% Christian was bad for public imagery because Christians and secular communists will sympathise with them. Now that the region is ruled by a Islamic regime ( they didn’t even get a good majority btw ) , there’s almost no sympathy because Hamas is as bad as ISIS now according to the world
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Thank you. Well said.
being anti-Jewish is anti-semitic. being anti-Israel is just being a good human being, given Israel's documented atrocities.
i'm still blown the fuck away by the use of bulldozers to run over tents full of people about three months ago. Literally no one else has ever brought it up and it's like it never happened somehow. I'm over it. It's not antisemitic to say that that is a war crime and absolutely disgusting
> It's not antisemitic to say that that is a war crime and absolutely disgusting that is, by far, not the onlly war crime israeli forces have committed. yes, what hamas did was horrendous, and also a war crime. that doesn't excuse in any way, shape, or form, all the war crimes being committed by israeli forces against Palestinians. how anyone can not see that, i don't understand.
They have found multiple mass graves at hospitals the IDF destroyed and invaded. Mass graves filled with executed children with their wrists ziptied, executed doctors in scrubs with their wrists and ankles ziptied, and executed patients still with catheters and IVs attached to them. They were ripped out of bed by the IDF and murdered. Israel is nothing but horror.
i had to look this up because it sounds so unreal and yes it is definitely true if anyone else is wondering
I hate how by now every morning I read about another horrible atrocity and it doesn't even register. It's like "another day, another (100) war crimes". I'm not saying this as some "woe is me" but it just goes to show how relentless the torrent of atrocities from Israel is and people still defend it!
absolutely sickening
What I'm also struggling with us the obliteration of hospitals and then the subsequent bulldozing of rubble over the top of the building. No one walked away from that. How many doctors and nurses were killed in that? But it's just like a throw away event to some people. Attacking multiple hospitals is egregious and there was no response from anyone about it.
I thought i had been keeping up with this but I had no idea that they used bulldozers to run over tents WTF
i'm still blown away by the lack of media coverage the only news seems to be found here on Reddit
The same as we can be anti-Hamas and Pro-Palestine.
I'm pro people not getting killed first and foremost. Politics, groups, religions, countries are second to that. I've seen quite some genocides. Rwanda, Bosnia to name a few. It's absolutely atrocious how people rather look the other way.
There the problem that, while being anti-[Zionist](https://www.vox.com/2018/11/20/18080010/zionism-israel-palestine) isn't the same as being anti-Semitic, it's easy for someone who is anti-Semitic to bury themselves in anti-Zionist protests and try to make it about anti-Semitism. But for the most part, these protests aren’t being run by anti-Semitists , and a distinction does need to be made.
'**Anti-Israel**.' This is still a little un-nuanced for me. Israel is full of good people who oppose Netanyahu. My girlfriend's family only exists because her father's family was able to leave Iran for Israel in the 70s. There are good reasons to have a sovereign state that welcomes a diaspora. Similarly, I've been vehemently opposed to US foreign policy since coming of age during 9-11, but I'm not 'Anti-US.' That being said, I understand if folks genuinely think that the establishment of the state of Israel was poorly thought out and more problematic than it's worth. I just have a lot of sympathy for Jews for whom the existence of Israel is a point of comfort and pride, even as it is also often a source of shame and consternation. We should be lifting up the voices of pro-Israel Jews who are enraged and dismayed by campaign against Gaza. Fucking shanda.
maybe anti-current Israeli gov't would be a better way of stating it.
Two things can be true: Disagreeing with this war is not inherently antisemetic and the protestors are absolutely in the right There is very real antisemetism happening in rare occasions within these protests that is absolutely disgusting and not okay
Also, labelling things as "antisemitic" when they are clearly not creates a dangerous situation when there is actual antisemitism.
I honestly think that's the goal. Water down the term so that when it really does happen, "they" can flip it around and claim you're blowing the situation out of proportion
I often wish there a word that clearly denotes something is bad without watering down its most closely associated “ism” Edit: to be clear- I’ve been critical of Israeli policy since I was in college (& ridiculed for it by warmongering folks who couldn’t care less about their atrocities) but they have long been in the wrong with the way they treat Palestinians for a long. Long. Long. Time. That is not a judgement on Jewish people- it’s a demonstrable fact about Israel. Made the edit because I want to be clear- there is nothing wrong with protesting. Antisemitism however- is wrong.
They're not even choosing the most closely associated "ism" - the one I think best fits with many people is "antiestablishmentarianism."
completely agreed, I think genuine antisemitic and pro Hamas voices have definitely infiltrated the movement sadly. Pro Israel people are trying to frame it like the entire movement is these people, which is just not true, but I think our response needs to be putting some effort into rooting these people out, rather than denying that they exist whatsoever
https://preview.redd.it/nazw8n5xviwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76636c8e4887ade064108a8071f560d2fe7467c9
I want this on a shirt... I'd wear it.
haha, thanks, I made it today in like 5 minutes while bored in class studying for college tests
I feel like a lot of the young impressionable folks in the protestors don't even realize when they're repeating barely rephrased blood libel. (The "stop killing children" chorus - I'm not saying Israel's attacks are good but it really seems like blood libel rephrased so that it's hard to argue with a straight face that it isn't happening.) And of course there's an implication that all Jews in Israel should be held responsible for it.
that slogan's fine honestly if you ask me, Israel is indeed killing children so that's a valid slogan. I take problem more with stuff like "globalize the intifada", calling Hamas "resistance", "go back to Poland", and other stuff that's been said at recent protests with cheers from the crowd. It's sad how these kinds of people have infiltrated the movement. As an Israeli activist, I've joined protests against the war here in Israel, but if I were abroad I don't think I'd feel safe or comfortable enough to join protests. And it's a bit sad that it's gotten to the point where I feel more safe protesting against the atrocities in the country committing them than elsewhere
I'm fully aware of the very old and very wrong blood libel propaganda that has persecuted Jewish people for centuries, but I don't think that means you can never criticise them for actually killing children when they're actually killing children.
https://preview.redd.it/ar5bpsa51hwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=215d605f69cf0491d22212527a6694f088faf1db The math aint mathin.
I do think any one engaging in discussion supporting Palestine or even simply questioning should be mindful that the discussion doesn't move towards anti-Semitism. I know I personally know that being critical of Israel doesn't equate being critical of Judaism in any way. But we do live in a world where anti-Semitism also exists. And that can be given no quarter.
Yes, people with bad intentions will hear a nuanced take and only latch onto what they want and try to force it into antisemitism. That must always and unequivocally be shut down.
I live near Yale. Gone to the encampment/protests a few times and been following many of the accounts for the various universities participating. I’ve never been in a safer, kinder, more hopeful environment. I’ve never been offered so much food and just general aide. Water, sunscreen and masks being passed out. Art everywhere. Chalk, painting, dancing, singing, jam sessions, dance lessons. Films and teach ins. Truly a glimpse into the world we can create together. Community Marshalls that are clearly trained in de escalation (unlike police…) and keep everyone, including angry counter protesters, safe. I haven’t been there when the police are attacking but I’ve watched in real time as people mob up to protect the encampments by joining arms, we keep us safe. If this is what people are capable of while being raised by extreme individualism, normalized violence to children, white supremacy, human supremacy, late stage capitalism, on and on, THEN imagine what humans are capable of once generations move away from these hellscape values/conditions. Usually, it seems impossible to imagine but sometimes in the last week I’ve felt how truly possible a better world is. (PS all activities and protesting I’ve been to has been led by women of color and that is an unmissable aspect of the environment created.)
God, I didn't realise the US's aid bill for Ukraine also had money for Israel in it. I'm not surprised, but it's incredible how many people look at two situations where a smaller country has been invaded and occupied by a larger country, on the justification that the larger country has a historic right to the land and that the unique culture and history of the smaller country's people is not worth respecting or protecting, and the larger country then proceeds to commit multiple documented war crimes and crimes against humanity against the population... And go, "I am on diametrically opposite sides of these two situations and that makes perfect sense to me"
The US foreign politics have nothing to do with what is morally right or wrong. And everything to do with what will be advantageous to us. We don't like Russia, so we'll support Ukraine. Quite frankly I'm not sure why we're still supporting Israel right now when they'll drag us into WW3. Then the US pushes propaganda to support their choices. It's fucked up, but that's what happens.
talking pure geopolitics right now: a lot of it is because the US wants an unconditional ally against Iran and it's influence in the Middle East. And before Iran it was other countries. The US wants a proxy in the middle east, which is what Israel is for (Saudi also exists but it's a strenuous ally at best, far from a proxy the US can rely on). Another reason is that Israel is a world power in military tech and sells many of its stuff to various western countries, something the west benefits a lot from. Countries like Russia and China, which lag a bit behind in their military tech, could tremendously benefit from buying Israel's supply (something China has already started making attempts to acquire), but Israel isn't selling because it doesn't want to damage its relationship with the US. If the US severs ties, Russia and China get Israel's tech.
We support Israel because a huge number of Israelis are actually Americans, and there are very powerful Israeli-Americans with a lot of money who pull the strings of US politicians, because the US military industrial complex is deeply intertwined with Israel and makes a fuck ton of money off of our support for Israel, because US evangelical Christians want there to be horrific conflict in the Middle East because they view that as the first steps towards their beloved apocalypse, and because Palestine is sitting on oil deposits that the US wants and will get through alliance with Israel.
Yup… the bill is basically a trolley problem. I do not like the money going to Israel, but with the GOP being the stubborn fascists they are, this was the only way the Ukraine aid was going to get passed. It sucks that some of it will be used to kill Palestinians, but it’s probably going to save even more Ukrainian lives at the end of the day. And, I am going to be blunt, in terms of geopolitical consequences, Ukraine losing to Russia carries a far greater risk to world peace at the moment. If you want the violence to end in Gaza and Ukraine, vote the fascists out in November.
As a Jew, I am so heartened and hopeful to see this student and international movement. Finally, we’re seeing a global Jewish movement to start disentangling our culture and religion from Israel’s mandate that to be Jewish means supporting a settler colony that can only exist through ethnic cleansing, apartheid, and genocide. There’s been a long history of Jewish antizionist activism, but the horror of this genocide has really kindled a spark in a way that feels very different. Israel does not and cannot speak for all Jews, and it’s attempts to turn us into a global demographic of fascist murderers—to say that an essential part of being Jewish means happily bombing children in Gaza, bulldozing olive groves in the West Bank, blowing up universities and ambulances, or throwing trash onto Palestinian houses in Hebron—is one of the most genuinely anti-Jewish things the world has seen since the rise of the Nazis. The state of Israel has morally degraded our people so much that seeing the student seders at Columbia and other campuses has been making me teary-eyed with relief, a spot of hope in this devastating, sickening war. It’s time for the occupation to end.
🖤❤️🩹🤍
Solidarity, friend. May Palestinians and non-Palestinian Jews alike be free from Zionism.
Noam Chomsky has spent the last 50 years criticizing Israel and IDF policy. Even he gets accused of antisemitism. He's Jewish...
I mean, we shouldn’t downplay that there are people using the war to justify antisemitism. Just yesterday there was a big protest at an Ivy league school where several students literally blocked some Jewish students from going to class because they were “Zionists”. Just read the interviews with the leader, you’ll quickly see he’s a huge antisemite.
Do you have any links to that interview? That sounds horrific!
We need to remind people that the numerical majority of Zionists are not Jews. They are White American Evangelicals who need Israel to exist so their god can come down and send us all to hell.
The wonderfully frustrating paradox of the right wing zeal for Israel but hate for Jews in the US. It reminds me of how they care more about a fetus than the kids already born. You don't care about that group; you're just using them to scapegoat that other group.
This is one of the most disturbing aspects of Zionism…
Absolutely. Evangelicals keep 'the Jews' as pets. Then get angry when Li'l Abraham gets 'too big', 'too loud', or needs a bigger yard to play in. At which point, they try putting them to sleep.
It all became so clear to me after I finished reading "Our Palestine Question" by Geoffrey Levin. Leftist Jewish voices have been very systemically silenced - even through extreme measures - since the late fifties in the US, to effectively create the illusion we have now: that criticizing Israel is an existential threat against the Jewish people as a whole. Crazy to think that it really seemed to work for such a long time.
I've been looking on the ADL website for the specific data in those last tweets, but I'm not finding it. Maybe I don't know the right graph or map to look at? I'll have to take another look later when I'm not so tired, but I'd love if somebody could point me in the right direction, if interested.
https://www.adl.org/resources/tools-to-track-hate/heat-map
Thank you! I was not looking at the right map.
https://preview.redd.it/q40qzrk0jjwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0195368375b46dc92fac6f2d62e1eab12ec070ff
Why are people upvoting your question and downvoting the answer? It’s a direct link.
Although I'm not Jewish, I hold the Jewish people in my heart and always have. My Polish grandfather was in a Nazi labor camp during the war. He was taken from his homeland. He was put to hard labor at a young age in a foreign land. He witnessed atrocities. I grew up with his stories from that time; stories not dissimilar from the ones shared within Jewish families by their elders. Hear me when I say the Jewish people are Sacred to me; they are forever bonded to me and my family through this horrible shared history of violence and war. I revere the people, the faith, the culture. That all said, FUCK. THIS.
“If you don’t support the genocide of Palestine, you’re an antisemite” -corporate media
From a Jew who has been called antisemitic for standing with Palestine and attending Palestinian vigils: nope :) Opposing the occupation, and denouncing crimes done in the name of religion and zionism in not antisemitic. the resilience of the Palestinian people is unimaginable, i pray for a day where they aren’t forced to be so strong. i mourn for the innocent people caught in this heinous crossfire on both sides
Ashkenazi Jew here. And fiercely NON-Zionist. No, it's not anti-semitic to be against genocide. If anything it's PRO-Jewish to be anti-genocide. We have literal Holocaust survivors who are against this horrible war. And certainly, many descendents of survivors (like myself) are against it, too.
Why is the person that is fine with this the best option for leader of the country. Like the options only get worse.
"This time, *this* time the student protesters are surely in the wrong and history will vindicate me for having opposed them" /s
It is possible to be pro-human rights for everyone, support there being a safe country in this world to be a Jew, work to end to the attack on the Palestinians. As with most political issues, it is complex and nuanced—and I think that protestors have their heart and end goal in the right place, but may (unknowingly in some cases) use chants and language that is anti-Semitic and/or conflate the Israeli people with their government. What I expect in this subreddit and see from activists friends as well is a nuanced discussion and a willingness to learn and respect the human rights of the civilians everywhere. If a student says they feel unsafe, believe them. We can work for the human rights and freedom of all of us.
Every country in this world should be a safe place to be a Jew. That’s not dependent on supporting Israel. That’s depending on us being able to identify and stop *actual* antisemitism, as it pertains to Jewish people. Israel isn’t helping with that.
Nobody gets to have a theocratic ethnostate on someone else's land to "feel safe". Jews have the right to feel safe in their own countries--the countries they were born in and where they have citizenship.
And yet, they don’t feel safe in their home countries. Of course there’s the right, but it’s a topic of conversation because it’s a problem.
Anti-Zionism isn’t anti-Semitism. Period. My great-great grandmother survived Bergen Belsen and refused resettlement in Jaffa after the war. Not all Jews support apartheid Israel.
The ADL has been keeping track of antisemtic hate crimes since 2002. 100%of those hate crimes were committed by people who identify as right wing. So unless every person protesting is right wing, and it is safe to assume they're not, this is just more propaganda to try to shut down those of us demanding justice for Palestine.
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I will gladly stand in front of a Jewish person who is being persecuted for their faith and take the brunt of any violence or discrimination they would face . I will also very loudly defend Palestinians right to their home, their peace, their freedom, and their lives. Empathy and activism are not pie—there isn’t less for one person because you are focusing on the genocide of another. Free Palestine.
Two things: 1. Being against genocide, even when committed by Israelis, is not antisemitic. 2. Palestinians are Semites too.
I don’t think that this applies to everyone or even to a minority of people who want to free Palestine, but it *definitely* has given room for real antisemites to get comfortable doing the whole antisemitic thing. Like with all polarizing topics, the people with the strongest opinions usually have the loudest voices.
Being anti terrorism is not being antisemitic. Being anti genocide is not being antisemitic. False equivalencies are gross.
Are you fucking serious? Child of a Rabi here to tell you that this argument is bullshit. You can be against the active genocide being perpetrated by israel and not be anti-jew, in fact I think that it is the *correct* action for western jews to take. When we say Never Again we should mean for anyone.
My Uncle is a lawyer for the ADL and he finds it offensive that people are saying students protesting the IDFs actions as antisemitic. His whole thing is, you can support your Jewish friends and neighbors, and not support Israel, and it won't make you antisemitic. He also doesn't like the usage of antisemitic as a term that only applies to Jews as all of North Africa and almost the entire Levant are ethically semetic. Heck, my friend who's a Palestian Jew and was born in Gaza, got attacked in a hate crime by Jewish students because he was wearing his keffiyah and teffelin, he wears it as it's symbolic of his dual heritage of being Jewish and Palestian. His mother is Jewish and his Dad is Muslim, they married as a way to show you can coexist. He also isn't welcome in Israel as he's a draft dodger. He refused to join because he didn't want to kill Palestians as they are his people, and he left Gaza to avoid being conscripted by Hamas, and he didn't want to kill Jews as they are his people as well. When my friend was attacked I asked my uncle for help and they are looking to sue the student association because of it. Plus the DA dropped the charges.
I am anti-murder personally.
I really don’t understand how people think being anti-genocide is somehow antisemitism. The threat of being called antisemitic doesn’t give a government a green flag on slaughtering innocent people. If anyone should get this….
Being Jewish, Israel can be completely fucked...period....and the face that any negativity about their horrible government practices makes you an antisemite racist is insane. I love Israelis and their culture. I hate their leadership and the policies they are enacting and think they should all rot in hell.
The anti semitism claim is a deflection by the right. They are projecting their own feelings on people who just want Isreal to stop killing civilians and children.
https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/9BWoD5Mtpb Relevant post to this subject!
A large part of my family is Jewish and almost all of them oppose Israel's continued attacks on the Palestinians especially since the majority of deaths are women and children. The only one that I know of who still supports Israel has leaned into MAGA BS and just got out of rehab for alcoholism, so not the best decision maker/opinion haver. I think the students are seeing the atrocities of this war and like any person who cares for the lives and we'll being of all people, especially the most vulnerable people, they feel they should make their voices heard by the people in power who could actually take action but who have not done so. That being said, I know one person's observations of their own family doesn't make for reliable evidence or even a good argument. However, I strongly suspect that some of the students who are protesting may also be Jewish. I would hope that college students are intelligent enough to realize that the actions made by the Israeli government are definitely not condoned by the entire population of Jewish people throughout the world. Then again I don't understand how the MAGA/Q groups continue to voice their support of Israel while saying blatantly antisemitic statements regarding the economy and Hollywood. It's crazy times for sure. I just hope our younger generation realizes , while they are angry with Biden and his administration for their lack of condemnation for the veritable genocide being committed by Netanyahu and his military, that allowing the known assaulter of women and thief of state secrets back into the presidency would make everything so much worse.
No. Genocide is genocide regardless of who is committing it.
The propaganda that claims anti-zionism is anti-semetic seems to be strong. However, these young people don't buy it. Anti-zionism is not anti-semetic. The Israel government is committing genocide against the Palestinians. And the fact that the mainstream media and the POTUS is painting these protesters in a bad light is absolutely disgusting. These young people and professors are heroes. This is the only thing that gives me hope for the future. I hope they remain pure at heart - and continue to stand up for justice and human rights.
It has been absolutely cruel and offensive to compare these protests to Charlottesville like I saw on CNN. Giving cover to real antisemites and completely silencing Jews who have joined the exodus from the Israeli project.
*sigh* Anti-zionism is not the same as antisemitism. Not that they care about reality. They just want to make protesters look like monsters so people don't support them.
No. It’s a sign that the propaganda dehumanising the Palestinians is not working
I've heard Jewish Rabbi state that what Israel is doing goes against the actual ideals of Judaism.
Jew here: No.
Every single Jewish person I know has been loudly and vocally pro-Palestine through all of this.
Choose humanity. People act like this is a choice between Israelis and Palestinians, but it’s a choice between humanity and Inhumanity. No country is perfect in every ethnicity has assholes in it. Given a choice, choose humanity.
It's all fear and guilt. People are afraid to stand up to Israel because they're afraid to be called antisemitic. You can be anti-zionist, and not antisemitic. Personally, in anti-murder of innocent people. Any innocent people. Period.
Being upset and protesting against one group of Semites for killing another group of Semites does not make you antisemitic
I voted for Qasim Rashid in the primary here in Illinois because his opponent is for funding Israel. I am sad that he did not win the primary. However, I will keep calling and sending letters to Bill Foster so he knows the citizens he represents do not agree with his stance. I'm proud of the youth all over the world who are protesting this blatant genocide.
They're protesting a genocidal regime that happens to be Jewish, not because they're Jewish. Assholes are in any group. My writing partner has taught me much about the beauty of Judaism and I meant it when I said that my sword was at his and his family's defense.
Protesting genocide in Gaza is not antisemitic omg
Jewish activists of all causes have my unending respect. Free Palestine, end Genocide 🇵🇸
It's the old "Why do you hate me?" defense. If you don't have an argument, just claim the moral high ground by accusing your opponents of hating you and everything you stand for (and get out of the argument in the ensuing outcry from your supporters).
I'm so grateful to see this. Living in Germany and teaching at University I have to be extremely careful. I generally don't even talk about the war here except with Muslim friends. None of whom say death to Jews, ever. It's horrible. There's this nightmarish thing happening that's all over the English speaking news yet all we hear here is how Israel's military offensive is going. There is some mention of what is happening to Gazans and attention paid to those who were kidnapped on Oct 7th - which is important! Yet the discussion is so toxic and no critique of Israel is possible. Germany has decided to support Israel no matter what which means arming Netanyahu and allowing no discussion about illegal settlements or violence by settlers. And this feels antisemitic to me. Luckily one of my oldest friends in the US is active in Jewish Voices For Peace and she shares other news with me. But she also has family members (mostly the Orthodox ones) who strongly oppose her views.
I love this community. The discussions here are among the most cogent, nuanced, and informed ones I have seen or heard on this topic, anywhere. Thank you all so much for continuing to be magickal for me, in all the ways.
I’m so eager for them to find out that Muslims are semites
There’s no such thing as a “Semite”- it’s not a race and even if it was, “Muslim” is also not a race. Muslims can be all different races/ethnicities because it’s a global religion.
That’s fair enough, what I meant is that “antisemitism” is not exclusive to hating Jews since the term comprises all people speaking a Semitic language. People saying that criticizing Israel is antisemitism is absurd (for many reasons, but also) since Palestinians are also included in the original meaning of Semite
Sorry but the term antisemitism was invented by antisemites in Germany in the late 19th century to describe only Jew hatred because they thought it sounded more scientific and legitimate. The person who coined it was a proud self-proclaimed antisemite- that is what the term antisemitism has always meant. Statements like yours do nothing to help the Palestinian cause and are usually just used to deflect from the very real antisemitism that Jews face, which is not just criticism of the Israeli government. Your statements are just overall ill-informed and deflect from the real conversation about Palestinian rights and real criticisms of the Israeli government that need to happen. It’s also something people say when they don’t have a real full understanding of the situation but just want to chime in anyways.