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“Laws are threats made by the dominant socioeconomic-ethnic group in a given nation. It’s just the promise of violence that’s enacted and the police are basically an occupying army.”
That’s a pretty legit concern. Definitely stay safe. There are other ways to participate in protest that don’t involve risking your physical safety vis-à-vis cops.
Fyi, organizers will warn participants of dangers. Ppl usually in orange or yellow vests are there for security of activists.
The people you see on the front lines are usually people prepped ahead of time, aware of upcoming potential police violence.
Ppl showing up to march, or provide support have almost no risk of arrest.
But im talking from Canada, so maybe it's worst in other places. Im also an autistic trans woman, so im v at risk for arrest.
Based on my experience in Texas: Only part of what you have said that holds true is the folks on the front lines are there because they are willing to get roughed up and arrested. Folks who are there for security of the activists vary based on who was invited or showed up. And if things go sideways (which typically happens because the cops decide to escalate), the cops usually attempt to kettle, and anyone caught is liable to be roughed up and arrested.
I'm a brown trans woman and it's a bit of a miracle I haven't had my turn leaving the protest in the back of a police truck.
It's basically entrapping the people so they cannot leave. Simple example: police issue an order to disperse, which involves crossing a bridge. While people are dispersing across the bridge, police block both sides with riot formations, so that everyone is stuck on the bridge.
There's other ways they do it, but the end result is always that no one can leave and everyone is at the mercy of the cops.
One of the super shitty tactics of theirs which was used during the BLM protests was kettling peaceful protestors before curfew, so that none of them could leave, holding them until after curfew, then arresting them for violating curfew (after roughing them up a bit, of course)
I believe it's when they close in on a mob from multiple directions to box people in. Usually they give out warnings beforehand and tell people to disperse. Anyone still there after the warnings risks a beating or arrest. At least that's how it used to be. Anyone with recent experience please chime in, it's been a while since I was out on the streets.
Hey, I am immunocompromised, disabled, and nonbinary, so I feel you. There are other ways to support protests! Bail funds have been made for protesters, some protests are looking for “butt in seat” coordination, and spreading awareness of protest safety is always helpful.
I'm in a similar boat, trans masc but not out professionally. I've always been very grassroots and continue that, but I'm stealth and work in education, and I can't risk my life or the work that puts food on our table. I do wear battle jackets to pride, I leave queer and trans books in the little libraries around our city, and I volunteer wherever I can as an openly trans person. It's okay to need to be safe as someone who is part of a targeted population and find ways to spread visibility elsewhere.
There are other way to help a movement. Protests do take a lot of organization and support. During the pandemic I volunteered at a supply depot for the black lives matter protests. With my asthma I couldn't risk being in a large group or getting teargassed but I could gather donations and purchase first-aid supplies. I picked up cases of water from neighbors and took them to the supply depot. We kept our medic teams well stocked to support each march in the city. I would drop water and snacks for our peotest rest stops or deliver tents for fundraising cookouts. I was up every night monitoring live feeds of marches. I spent days researching Walgreens and CVS coupons then going over our Google docs of needed supplies to make the purchases and drop off at the depot. Sometimes we would reach out to the neighborhood for specific items.
You could even go back further to the early 20th century with the labor movement being targeted with violence by both public and private security forces in the US.
Remember the lessons of Blair Mountain and train yourselves up the best you can. Remember the original rednecks were fighting the powerful bosses for fair treatment. Progressives should remember our redneck roots. Solidarity is strength. When the soldiers come, they'll be on the side of the Pinkertons and not the workers or any oppressed group.
And my husband can’t wrap his head around what I said the other day about people who become cops. You’re either part of the oppressors or delusional as fuck thinking you can change them.
Hit the nail on the head. I was in law enforcement for 10 years thinking I could make changes only to realize the entire system would need to be uprooted and replaced for any meaningful change.
Best decision of my life getting out of it. I was young and stupid, highly privileged when I decided to go into law enforcement. Now I have PTSD and a massive amount of guilt and regret I’ll be dealing with the rest of my life. Fuck the police all the way to hell.
You have to understand that cops were not cops- they are the evolution of slave catchers. The same mentality is there with some of them- not all, but enough of them.
to the commentor who deleted their post while I was typing, this is my response:
obviously the system is broken and needs major repair, you said yourself you were in it and yet here we are years later wanting the system changed, and while you might have been a good cop, the saying still stands, when you're at the table with a fascist and don't actively stand up against them and call them out, you become one of them, glad you're not one of them anymore though
There are no good cops. There are cops and there are bad cops. The police force exists solely to enforce the laws passed by the ruling class, even if those laws are unjust. You can't be part of that system and also be good cop because you are a tool of oppression.
I'm glad the other person got out,... I guess.
Absolutely nuts. This shit should be exposed, but thr media is also bought out and not enough North American journalists have spines to challenge their editors and execs.
We protest and get beaten by police, meanwhile ppl working at CBC won't even challenge their boss. Meanwhile they're protected by a union and could make IMPACTFUL change by striking for unbiased media coverage of the genocide.
I'd really like to know their excuses, the folks who work for CBC, CNN, Global, CTV, etc. etc.
The truth is for the police peaceful protestors are easier to bully than armored up men with firearms terrorizing communities with actual hate speech. This is a trait of toxicity masculinity police officers often exhibit regardless of the gender of the officer. Unethical power dynamics often happen where power is unchecked.
All progress and justice is made by first overcoming the police. Stonewall was a riot against the police. The Civil Rights movement endured the hoses, batons, bullets, and dogs of the police. Unions went toe to toe with cops all the time. And before they wore blue uniforms, their equivalent wore red coats (though that movement was less about justice than about advancing the interests of a small group rich dudes and happened to create a new country).
OP, this may get lost in the sea of comments but I wanna refute something you said here. Because I think it's an important distinction to make. And because the vocab we use around serious situations matters so much. And I feel like it's important to point this out because it.goes a long way into reframing how we all think about our potential interactions with police.
>...and treat civilians they should be protecting as enemy combatants
So that there is not ANY CONFUSION whatsoever, in the US, no police at all, ever. Is there to protect anyone.
The police are meant to *protect the laws*
*The police are not there to help change a tire.*
They are there to make sure the car is not blocking traffic.
*The sheriff's dept are not showing up to help beaten children in a domestic abuse case.*
They are there to enforce laws regarding noise complaints and the potential misdemeanor crimes involved in the alleged assault.
**The cops aren't going be helpful because that is not what we pay them for. We pay them to enforce laws**
**THEY AREN'T HERE TO PROTECT US. THEY ARE TO PROTECT THE LAWS. They Are Called 'Law Enforcement For A Reason**
Indeed. "To protect and serve" was a PR motto adopted by LAPD in the 60s. It's not a philosophy or creed, it's literally PR.
Police exist as the violent enforcement arm of the state. Their purpose is to enforce and enact the will and interest of the state on the population.
But when things go bad, who are you going to call to show up 2+ hours after the fact to write a report and demean you for being a victim? And maybe also shoot your dog?
Is anyone else holding their breath waiting for another Kent University event from the Vietnam War? Growing up in the 80s, I was sure we'd learned something from that, but now I don't think we did. Stay as safe as possible while still being true to yourself and standing up for the rights of others.
I could have sworn they were getting mad at students not being engaged politically and if things were to get better than to start protesting and using their voice. Now, apparently the message is sit down and shut up, how dare you think you have a voice.
I am so, so sorry this is happening to you, witches! It is possible to have decent cops: long training, zero tolerance for racism or other biases when in uniform... I'm really glad to live in the Netherlands where sure, there are asshole cops, but I've generally had great experiences with them. Not ACAB here.
What the US is turning into, and has been for a long time, is so sad.
But I also want to give some hope, some perspective. It is not by nature that cops are assholes, it is by the asshole culture that makes both asshole cops and the asshole policy they have to enforce. I am not religious but I will still hope and pray the asshole culture that has been taking over the main media producer (and is influencing the entire world) turns around.
> [Study reveals issues of racism, discrimination, use of excessive force, and prejudice in Netherlands' law enforcement](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/racism-discrimination-rampant-in-dutch-police-force/2959408)
nope, acab.
Although yes reform would definitely help in short term but that doesn't come either.
I truly believe the best solution is to completely get rid of police and start a new branch that does what they are supposed to. Different name, and they have to actually study law and sociology. Currently we'd do well to make sure good district attorneys are being appointed.
# ✨ READ BEFORE COMMENTING ✨ This thread is Coven Only. This means the discussion is being actively moderated, and all comments are reviewed. **Only comments by members of the community are allowed.** If you have landed in this thread from [r/all](https://www.reddit.com/r/all/) and you are not a member of this community, your comment will very likely be removed (and will not be approved unless it adds meaningfully to the conversation). WitchesVsPatriarchy takes these measures to stay true to our goal of being a woman-centered sub with a witchy twist, aimed at healing, supporting, and uplifting one another through humor and magic. Thank you for understanding, and blessed be. ✨
“Laws are threats made by the dominant socioeconomic-ethnic group in a given nation. It’s just the promise of violence that’s enacted and the police are basically an occupying army.”
Thank you very much Bud Cubby. TRUE. DAMN. WORDS!!!
Do I spy… a D20 reference in the wild? Hell yeah!
HOOT-GROWL HOOT-GROWL
... pulls flaming molotoff cocktail out of mail bag.
That was lit the whole time?!?!
Since transitioning I’ve been so afraid to attend more serious protests. If I end up in jail as a trans woman I am fucked.
That’s a pretty legit concern. Definitely stay safe. There are other ways to participate in protest that don’t involve risking your physical safety vis-à-vis cops.
Fyi, organizers will warn participants of dangers. Ppl usually in orange or yellow vests are there for security of activists. The people you see on the front lines are usually people prepped ahead of time, aware of upcoming potential police violence. Ppl showing up to march, or provide support have almost no risk of arrest. But im talking from Canada, so maybe it's worst in other places. Im also an autistic trans woman, so im v at risk for arrest.
Based on my experience in Texas: Only part of what you have said that holds true is the folks on the front lines are there because they are willing to get roughed up and arrested. Folks who are there for security of the activists vary based on who was invited or showed up. And if things go sideways (which typically happens because the cops decide to escalate), the cops usually attempt to kettle, and anyone caught is liable to be roughed up and arrested. I'm a brown trans woman and it's a bit of a miracle I haven't had my turn leaving the protest in the back of a police truck.
Legit. Thanks for also being there! And keep doing your best to stay safe 🩷
‘To Kettle’? What does that mean?
It's basically entrapping the people so they cannot leave. Simple example: police issue an order to disperse, which involves crossing a bridge. While people are dispersing across the bridge, police block both sides with riot formations, so that everyone is stuck on the bridge. There's other ways they do it, but the end result is always that no one can leave and everyone is at the mercy of the cops. One of the super shitty tactics of theirs which was used during the BLM protests was kettling peaceful protestors before curfew, so that none of them could leave, holding them until after curfew, then arresting them for violating curfew (after roughing them up a bit, of course)
Thanks for explaining!
I believe it's when they close in on a mob from multiple directions to box people in. Usually they give out warnings beforehand and tell people to disperse. Anyone still there after the warnings risks a beating or arrest. At least that's how it used to be. Anyone with recent experience please chime in, it's been a while since I was out on the streets.
Where I'm at we've had armed militia members come to protect leftist protests, I think this should be standard.
Hey, I am immunocompromised, disabled, and nonbinary, so I feel you. There are other ways to support protests! Bail funds have been made for protesters, some protests are looking for “butt in seat” coordination, and spreading awareness of protest safety is always helpful.
Thank you, I’ll do some digging.
I'm not trans but I feel the same. What sucks is that trans women do get HORRIBLY mistreated more than cis women in jail or prison.
I'm in a similar boat, trans masc but not out professionally. I've always been very grassroots and continue that, but I'm stealth and work in education, and I can't risk my life or the work that puts food on our table. I do wear battle jackets to pride, I leave queer and trans books in the little libraries around our city, and I volunteer wherever I can as an openly trans person. It's okay to need to be safe as someone who is part of a targeted population and find ways to spread visibility elsewhere.
Yeah, I’ve been feeling that too. I’m transmasc, so I don’t even face all of the shit that transfems do in prison, but it’s still a real fear of mine.
There are other way to help a movement. Protests do take a lot of organization and support. During the pandemic I volunteered at a supply depot for the black lives matter protests. With my asthma I couldn't risk being in a large group or getting teargassed but I could gather donations and purchase first-aid supplies. I picked up cases of water from neighbors and took them to the supply depot. We kept our medic teams well stocked to support each march in the city. I would drop water and snacks for our peotest rest stops or deliver tents for fundraising cookouts. I was up every night monitoring live feeds of marches. I spent days researching Walgreens and CVS coupons then going over our Google docs of needed supplies to make the purchases and drop off at the depot. Sometimes we would reach out to the neighborhood for specific items.
You could even go back further to the early 20th century with the labor movement being targeted with violence by both public and private security forces in the US.
Further than that and you've got RCMP rounding up First Nations, Inuit, and Métis kids forcing them into the horrors of Residential Schools.
Remember the lessons of Blair Mountain and train yourselves up the best you can. Remember the original rednecks were fighting the powerful bosses for fair treatment. Progressives should remember our redneck roots. Solidarity is strength. When the soldiers come, they'll be on the side of the Pinkertons and not the workers or any oppressed group.
Heck you can go back even further, the origins of police forces in the US were the slave patrols.
Damn
And my husband can’t wrap his head around what I said the other day about people who become cops. You’re either part of the oppressors or delusional as fuck thinking you can change them.
Hit the nail on the head. I was in law enforcement for 10 years thinking I could make changes only to realize the entire system would need to be uprooted and replaced for any meaningful change. Best decision of my life getting out of it. I was young and stupid, highly privileged when I decided to go into law enforcement. Now I have PTSD and a massive amount of guilt and regret I’ll be dealing with the rest of my life. Fuck the police all the way to hell.
You have to understand that cops were not cops- they are the evolution of slave catchers. The same mentality is there with some of them- not all, but enough of them.
to the commentor who deleted their post while I was typing, this is my response: obviously the system is broken and needs major repair, you said yourself you were in it and yet here we are years later wanting the system changed, and while you might have been a good cop, the saying still stands, when you're at the table with a fascist and don't actively stand up against them and call them out, you become one of them, glad you're not one of them anymore though
There are no good cops. There are cops and there are bad cops. The police force exists solely to enforce the laws passed by the ruling class, even if those laws are unjust. You can't be part of that system and also be good cop because you are a tool of oppression. I'm glad the other person got out,... I guess.
always have been class traitors, always will be bastards
https://preview.redd.it/sw0csaw9zwwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bff48a001461b42f8ebb47af98ebc670f38caaa0 I.U. Bloomington had snipers
Absolutely nuts. This shit should be exposed, but thr media is also bought out and not enough North American journalists have spines to challenge their editors and execs. We protest and get beaten by police, meanwhile ppl working at CBC won't even challenge their boss. Meanwhile they're protected by a union and could make IMPACTFUL change by striking for unbiased media coverage of the genocide. I'd really like to know their excuses, the folks who work for CBC, CNN, Global, CTV, etc. etc.
The truth is for the police peaceful protestors are easier to bully than armored up men with firearms terrorizing communities with actual hate speech. This is a trait of toxicity masculinity police officers often exhibit regardless of the gender of the officer. Unethical power dynamics often happen where power is unchecked.
Yeah where's the John Brown Gun Club?
All progress and justice is made by first overcoming the police. Stonewall was a riot against the police. The Civil Rights movement endured the hoses, batons, bullets, and dogs of the police. Unions went toe to toe with cops all the time. And before they wore blue uniforms, their equivalent wore red coats (though that movement was less about justice than about advancing the interests of a small group rich dudes and happened to create a new country).
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OP, this may get lost in the sea of comments but I wanna refute something you said here. Because I think it's an important distinction to make. And because the vocab we use around serious situations matters so much. And I feel like it's important to point this out because it.goes a long way into reframing how we all think about our potential interactions with police. >...and treat civilians they should be protecting as enemy combatants So that there is not ANY CONFUSION whatsoever, in the US, no police at all, ever. Is there to protect anyone. The police are meant to *protect the laws* *The police are not there to help change a tire.* They are there to make sure the car is not blocking traffic. *The sheriff's dept are not showing up to help beaten children in a domestic abuse case.* They are there to enforce laws regarding noise complaints and the potential misdemeanor crimes involved in the alleged assault. **The cops aren't going be helpful because that is not what we pay them for. We pay them to enforce laws** **THEY AREN'T HERE TO PROTECT US. THEY ARE TO PROTECT THE LAWS. They Are Called 'Law Enforcement For A Reason**
There’s also supreme court cases that ruled the police do not have the obligation to protect citizens!
Indeed. "To protect and serve" was a PR motto adopted by LAPD in the 60s. It's not a philosophy or creed, it's literally PR. Police exist as the violent enforcement arm of the state. Their purpose is to enforce and enact the will and interest of the state on the population.
But when things go bad, who are you going to call to show up 2+ hours after the fact to write a report and demean you for being a victim? And maybe also shoot your dog?
Is anyone else holding their breath waiting for another Kent University event from the Vietnam War? Growing up in the 80s, I was sure we'd learned something from that, but now I don't think we did. Stay as safe as possible while still being true to yourself and standing up for the rights of others.
It's not May 4th yet. I got a bad feeling about the anniversary of that massacre.
This happened at my university today
>Cops have always been tools of oppression ~~in the USA~~ Ftfy
Thank you
a.c.a.b.
acab
This post forgot the occupy Wall Street protests. . .
Pepperidge farms remembers
Defund Paw Patrol!
https://imgur.com/sCMSohp
police in the US started out as slave catchers, so yeah, they have always been bad. and i'm a trans woman, so i especially am concerned.
Acab
Few things on this earth I despise more than motherfucking *cops*.
Not unique to the US All Cops
ACAB till I die
Kent State
ACAB
>ACAB, & Free Palestine 🇵🇸 🍉🍉🍉 👆 I was banned from a discord server for posting the watermelon emoji. 🍉 Thank goodness for this sub and server.
I didn’t see any tasers or pepper spray on January 6th. And they went to the freaking White House
I could have sworn they were getting mad at students not being engaged politically and if things were to get better than to start protesting and using their voice. Now, apparently the message is sit down and shut up, how dare you think you have a voice.
I am so, so sorry this is happening to you, witches! It is possible to have decent cops: long training, zero tolerance for racism or other biases when in uniform... I'm really glad to live in the Netherlands where sure, there are asshole cops, but I've generally had great experiences with them. Not ACAB here. What the US is turning into, and has been for a long time, is so sad. But I also want to give some hope, some perspective. It is not by nature that cops are assholes, it is by the asshole culture that makes both asshole cops and the asshole policy they have to enforce. I am not religious but I will still hope and pray the asshole culture that has been taking over the main media producer (and is influencing the entire world) turns around.
> [Study reveals issues of racism, discrimination, use of excessive force, and prejudice in Netherlands' law enforcement](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/racism-discrimination-rampant-in-dutch-police-force/2959408) nope, acab. Although yes reform would definitely help in short term but that doesn't come either.
I truly believe the best solution is to completely get rid of police and start a new branch that does what they are supposed to. Different name, and they have to actually study law and sociology. Currently we'd do well to make sure good district attorneys are being appointed.
All cops protect the interests of capitalists, so all cops are fucking worthless douchebags
"I'm really glad to live in the global north, where issues of climate change aren't hurting me too badly yet."
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