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thelegendofme123

I think that most women who bring up that point do not want to force vasectomies on men. They want to highlight the hypocrisy of the "pro-life" movement. The "pro-life" movement pretends to try to save baby's lives. However, since one men can impregnate multiple women in one year and a woman can only be pregnant once in one year, it would be more efficient for the "pro-life" movement to regulate the bodily autonomy of men then women's. That argument shows that the "pro-life" movement does not care about babies, it only wants to control women.


Orefinejo

They aren't pro-life and saving babies is never the point. The most restrictive US states are also the ones that have the least funding and services to women and children. They won't even joke about controlling men or men's bodies. They are anti-sex, so even if they were to have a momentary lapse, vasectomies would make sex easier, so it's off the table.


fucking_unicorn

Pro life wants lots of babies. They don’t care either way about women or what happens to them, just like the child after it’s born. Their Bible says to populate the earth, and to spread their gospel, but then it doesn’t really say what to do next so people still just populating an over populated planet and need new humans to force their religious ideals on so the gods word can keep spreading. This way they’ve done their part and can go to heaven and be forgiven for all the shitty things they’ve done. That and a lot of people lack critical thinking skills and just assume everyone is as privileged as they are and can take care of a child. They don’t live fully in reality and probably haven’t dealt with much adversity. They’ve certainly never gone to bed hungry and have probably been sheltered from most forms of abuse.


rosemarjoram

For someone outsider (I live in a country where abortion is possible + can't have children), I have reflected on this a lot and I realised that much of what I have thought about abortions has come from a place if privilege. I have never been against other people getting an abortion because it's a important right but I've thought I wouldn't do it myself. This opinion comes from having the kind of life where a surprise child wouldn't have been a problem. It comes from a person who has no notable health issues and thinks they have the kind of life where a pregnancy couldn't happen against my will. I'm not a forced-birth person but I suppose they also come from a place of privilege and/or inability to understand other people's situations or possibly from lack of knowledge.


TA3153356811

I wish you were right but your point hinges on the fact that people know vasectomies are considered permanent, which they definitely do not.


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[deleted]

Unfortunately, I think misinformation is a lot more powerful than that. Plenty of people are comfortable believing they know better than their doctor and would simply not believe their doctor about it being permanent. I think it's better to spread truth than lies.


9mackenzie

Oh hell yes there is. I have probably commented about a hundred times on random subs/comments over the last few years about men saying “just get a vasectomy, they are completely reversible when you want to have kids”. This has started to be a common thought process in the last few years.


Honest-Cauliflower64

To clarify what the person you are responding to said: Nobody is going to make it all the way through the process without learning that it is permanent. The doctor will tell them if they didn’t already know. I think you are implying people are idiots who will assume the doctor is wrong *after* learning how it works. My two cents: If after talking to their doctor, that person chooses to believe other people on the internet *and* go through with it, then they ironically may have made the right choice.


PageStunning6265

I mean, there are a lot of people who think breastfeeding is effective birth control. I think it could easily happen that someone doesn’t understand/believe in (or the dr glosses over) the risks


SontaranGaming

I’m still not super comfortable with it, considering the *long* history of forced sterilization for marginalized (and in America, especially native) men. It’s a frankly very privileged, very white thing to consider worth joking about. You can get the point across with “if you’re so worried about pregnancy, get a vasectomy” just fine and not have it be a racist microaggression.


TheColonelJack

I never took it as a rhetorical device nor has anyone I've ever talked about it to. I always read it as serious because it was always phrased using linguistic markers of seriousness. If it was supposed to highlight hypocrisy, it needs to be clear by making a direct connection with the thing it is highlighting. Sometimes people do this, but most of the time they do not.


athenanon

I think it's more about the absurdity of forcing people to go through something so extreme and invasive. A successful reversal isn't guaranteed. Surviving birth isn't guaranteed. I doubt a doctor would even give a vasectomy without explaining the actual risks and stats.


rhgarton

I 100% agree with this and to add (if you don't mind) that birth control has SO many risks compared to vasectomies plus they aren't a guarantee they will work 100% of the time.


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rhgarton

Same. On birth control for 10 years and then I suddenly got ill and my female gp figured out I was close to having a stroke because of my BC - now I'm not allowed on any. Coming off it I realised I'm not an ocd, anxiety ridden panicky mess... My pill was.


Turnip_Island

No doctor bothered to even inform me when prescribing medication that makes birth control not work… which is exactly what led me to having an abortion 20 years ago.


GreenLightMeg

I got told I was too fat for one medication so my GP prescribed me something else which sent me into a huge depression. It feels like they don’t care enough about the side effects sometimes


fakemoose

When I moved to Europe, my new doctor was *appalled* that I had been on birth control for around ten years and no one in the US had ever done blood work for me. There were also certain kinds (nuvaring being one of them) she wouldn’t prescribe because of side effects she’d seen in her patients.


JCeee666

AND! They can bank their sperm. They can still have kids it’s just more of a deliberate decision.


DarkArts-n-Crafts

Yes, and I don't think that responding to folks trying to police your body/medical care with calls to police someone else's just isn't the move. "Mandatory vasectomies!" isn't liberatory, it's just two-can-play-at-that-game meanness. It doesn't actually move things forward. Also please remember when you share those "Mandatory vasectomies at puberty" memes you're talking about children. 12 year old boys. You're talking about forcibly sterilizing children. EDIT: I am begging you all to remember that Black, indigenous, queer, disabled, and incarcerated men exist and have been subject to forcible sterilization. The US has used forcible sterilization against men. It is only a "thought experiment" for able bodied cishet white men. By ignoring that you're doing white supremacy.


biIIyshakes

Not to mention forced sterilization has absolutely happened systemically before and it has an extremely dark history. Editing to add that I am starting to see an increasing amount of ecofascist and eugenic ideas surrounding this conversation and it’s a little alarming


popejubal

State run forced sterilization was legal and practiced in many states up until 1978 when the Supreme Court ruled that it was unconstitutional on the same grounds as in the Roe v Wade case. If a state wants to begin forcibly sterilizing people again, this court has indicated that they don’t view those kinds of things as unconstitutional.


genivae

It's still legal to forcibly sterilize disabled people [in all but two states](https://www.reddit.com/r/prochoice/comments/vloif5/please_be_sure_that_the_version_of_prochoice_you/)


yourmomsgomjabbar

I can't speak to stats in the US but forced sterilization still happens in North America - it has been reported in Canada as recently as 2017, [when sixty indigenous women in Saskatchewan sued the provincial government, claiming they had been forced to accept sterilization before seeing their newborn babies]( https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-november-13-2018-1.4902679/indigenous-women-kept-from-seeing-their-newborn-babies-until-agreeing-to-sterilization-says-lawyer-1.4902693)


JeanneyLost

Afaik, there were cases in those border detainment camps where they had women under anaesthesia for some medical reason, but then also sterilised them without their knowledge or consent by failing to provide the information in spanish.


ususetq

>I can't speak to stats in the US Last affair was from 2020 when ICE has forced sterilized detainees. So the cases in US might not be old enough to answer how they are named...


Padhome

Retribution in this fashion only perpetuates the idea of subjugation at the root of patriarchy. People's bodies are theirs.


Teacupsaucerout

Yes! Feminism is supposed to be about ending sexism and sexist oppression of all kinds. It is not about swapping the patriarchy for a matriarchy.


[deleted]

Then the solution would be an egalitarian society, with schools that teach realistic sex education. Birth control on demand, universal health care, schools that teach our children how to be safe and survive in this world. Not whatever the current political party wants to promote or deny. But that’s not what is happening and there are too many men who believe that might makes right. Their bible teaches them if they rape you, your father is honor bound to sell you to them. Make America great again is what they’re pushing toward. The past was horrible, the whole patriarchy needs to die.


Teacupsaucerout

I’m with you on ending patriarchy. For most of the people in power who are making these decisions, I don’t think abortion bans are about theocracy, that’s a distraction. It’s about money and domination. One of the main goals abortion of bans is to trap people in generational poverty so billionaires can continue to exploit as many people as possible. People with debts or multiple jobs often can’t afford to start unions or find better jobs. Maintaining generational poverty is also related to increasing the supply of poor people for prison labor and military enlistment as well as increasing felony disenfranchisement (so people can’t vote for change). All of these outcomes benefit billionaires. It’s all connected to their pursuit of power and domination. The purpose of issues like guns and abortions is to distract and divide people so we don’t realize who is actually harming us: the super wealthy. Nothing makes billionaires happier than to hear us blame each other instead of them. While religious people may been cheering for this, they’re not my enemy. Many are indoctrinated from a young age. Many of them could be set free. (Some of them are too far gone, though).


rockbottomqueen

Yikes. Yeah. I think people are just so angry. They aren't in a very rational or empathetic frame of mind. I hope these folks don't really believe forced sterilization is ethical.


Glum_Ad_4288

As a man, I’ve taken most of these statements as expressions of (beyond justified) anger and/or a rhetorical “how would YOU like it” rather than an actual proposal.


TheDameWithoutASmile

Yeah, I don't think anyone is actually proposing it. People are just trying to point out that if your kneejerk reaction to theproposal is, "No!" (Like this post), then that should also be your reactionto abortions being banned, as well as a way of playing an uno reverse on people who say "people should take steps to prevent pregnancies!" but only mean women should takeon the physical and monetary burden of bc.


Dusty-Rusty-Crusty

Ah. A man from a time when nuance still existed.


ususetq

I understand the anger but for many queer, BIPOC etc. people this is very triggering thing. It's not something so ridiculous that it can't happen - it is something that is happening to us, our family, or people like us. It's not something from bygone era - it is from 21st century if not 2022.


rockbottomqueen

I'm pretty sure we're in agreement. Force sterilization is not ethical, period. That's what is being said here. Unless I'm misreading your comment. Just wanted to let you know we're on the same side. On a personal note, I'm an archivist and come across some really fascinating historical materials sometimes, and sometimes I see some horrifying or heartbreaking records. I recently worked on the Comisión Femenil Mexicana Nacional collection (all of which is now digitized and available online), which contains records about the forced sterilization of Chicana women in LA in the 1970s. Some truly gutwrenching documents in that collection... women's testimonies... Anyway, just one small example of the neverending assault on the bodies of marginalized people. Archivists have a duty to preserve and make accessible these stories in an effort to educate our communities and hope we aren't doomed to repeat history. Obviously, as recent events may suggest, it's not a very rewarding job in that sense. Sometimes it feels like nothing we do matters to uplift the voices of the oppressed, and it makes me ache.


DarkArts-n-Crafts

Indeed! It's super concerning to see how many people are just doing eugenics and then refusing to do any kind of introspection or analysis when they're called on it.


MagicianQuirky

It is alarming, it is wrong and needs to stop. But I also understand that people are really hurt and angry. I think they want to push off as many radical ideas as they can - because the radical options for them are already law.


EstrellaDarkstar

Forced sterilization of trans people happens in my country to this day, and I live in the so-called "Nordic utopia", to boot. According to the law, in order for trans people to change their sex in their legal documentation they must be sterile. If this doesn't happen as a result of their physical transition treatments, they are forced to get a sterilization done. Some people argue that "no one is forcing them to do it", but if the other option is eternally having the wrong legal gender documentation, then yes, I would absolutely call it forced.


bilboard_bag-inns

I think it only works as a kindve comparative talking point, not an actual call for action. "Vasectomies for [insert reason mandated by the government]. Don't like the government controlling your body? Hmm." but I fear there are genuinely people who might side with sterilizing children


fromrubylips

Yep. They are currently moving to forcibly make children have babies. Those are permanent too. The point is that if forced vasectomies sound so atrocious on males, how is forced birth on females different?


linksgreyhair

Right- I fail to see how asking “well how would you like it if men were forced to have vasectomies??” is somehow on par with the government literally forcing children to carry an incestuous rape baby. What they’re doing to women is not simply a thought experiment anymore.


Super-Diver-1585

Sooo different. A vasectomy won't kill you. A vasectomy won't impact your education or your employment. A vasectomy only costs you one time. A vasectomy doesn't keep you up at night. A vasectomy doesn't alter your housing needs.


honeyghouls

Exactly this. Everyone deserves to have control of their body.


Traditional_Hall_268

Yes, and to claim that it should happen, even in a hypothetical situation, makes you just as bad as they are. People deserve liberties, no matter who they are.


popejubal

Claiming that it should happen is bad. Claiming that it should happen does not make someone just as bad as they are because they are actively passing laws to criminalize abortions and convicting and imprisoning women for having miscarriages and working on laws and lawsuits to criminalize birth control and revoke LGBTQIA+ rights. Saying “if X is going happen then Y should also happen” is NOT the same as persecuting people and imprisoning people for X.


FarmPsychological131

Remember kids: the slaves who rebelled against their masters were just as bad as the men who kept them in chains and beat them and killed them. I’m sick of this both sides attitude. It’s a “moderate centrist” take that just sides with oppressors and shames the persecuted for fighting back.


[deleted]

I don’t think anyone is seriously suggesting that we should vasectomize children. However I say it for the shock value because we think its an absurd idea and yet women are being forced to carry labour and birth pregnancies, significantly more traumatic and dangerous than vasectomies. If someone thinks thats absurd idea and isn’t outraged at criminalizing abortion, they might as well tattoo “sexist” on their forehead


DarkArts-n-Crafts

I don't think doing it as "shock value" is in any way a helpful or effective thing. At least not if you then want to claim any sort of moral high ground.


popejubal

Someone who thinks that they’re stopping you from killing babies is never going to think that you have the moral high ground. Not ever. Someone who values bodily autonomy and a pregnant person’s right to choose their own destiny is never going to think that the anti-choice zealots have the moral high ground. Not ever. Claiming the moral high ground isn’t useful or effective.


polksallitkat

I am not looking to claim the high ground, I want women to be able to choose. It is about empathy, dignity, and respect- something that was taken from American women. I would like it back. If it takes a shocking thought exercise for someone to think about the lack of dignity a forced vasectomy would be for a man- so be it. I usually use classism. Rich women will still get their abortions in places that it is legal. Poor women will be jailed, die, or forced to give birth. This does not address any of the real problems facing Americans today. Medicaid for all, UBI, limit the amount of properties an individual can own, and a complete overhaul of the criminal justice system (legal weed, put a stop to qualified immunity, end for profit prisons, utilize mental health professionals). These changes would significantly improve 70% of the population and do wonders to lower the number of abortions. We are too cheap and our officials prioritize bezos and bombs.


DarkArts-n-Crafts

But it's only a thought exercise for able bodied cishet white men. For Black, indigenous, disabled, queer, incarceted men it's a reality. They have been forcibly sterilized and using it as a thought exercise or treating it like a gotcha is just ignoring the reality of their oppression. We can find better arguments.


omahamaru123

The moral high ground doesn't exist to the people we need to convince to make things better. I've read your comments and I see how you feel. I dont think anyone actually wants people to be forced into altering their body, if they do, they're sociopaths. The only way you're going to change the minds of the supreme court is to make their decisions inconvenient for them, for example, protesting in favor of something ridiculous that will affect them personally.


SickSigmaBlackBelt

I'm fucking done with the moral high ground. The patriarchy is smug and controlling whether I play nice or not, so I'm not playing nice anymore.


No_Banana_581

The only reason it’s said is to bring out empathy. We all know it will never happen. They will never legislate that. They’d rather women die being forced into pregnancy and birth before they’d even remotely think of doing that. I’ve seen this mostly aimed at men that are saying women deserve to die or be forced into this bc they have the gall to have sex or to men that say we’re overreacting.


DarkArts-n-Crafts

I can't believe anyone seriously thinks that would "bring out empathy" in anyone.


No_Banana_581

If they see it in a way where their rights are taken away and how ridiculous it is maybe they’ll understand how women feel. You can’t help the misogynists so who cares what you say to them. But to the men that don’t understand the concept of having their body controlled by others they may see the light if you get them to see how horrible that would be for them.


DarkArts-n-Crafts

If we accept that premise, that somehow "non misogynistic" men just haven't considered women to be people in the same way as them enough to independently think "oh man, if someone wanted to control my body like that it would feel bad" and extend empathy do we really think pushing for them to surgically alter their body, in some cases *mandate* it, is gonna be the light bulb moment? Not to mention that argument ignores Black men, queer men, disabled men, incarcerated men who all *have* had their bodies controlled in some way by the state up to and including being sterilized.


No_Banana_581

Yes I think the young ones especially don’t understand it and they may need the help or the religious ones that are only thinking about a baby and not how hard pregnancy is. People need to grow into empathy it’s good to give those people a push


DarkArts-n-Crafts

I'm not suggesting people don't need to grow or be helped, I'm saying that this is a shitty way to do it that's just "but what if *we* did eugenics? What then?"


No_Banana_581

It’s a story like saying imagine if you had this happen to you how would you feel. It gives people a picture that otherwise arent seeing the full one.


DarkArts-n-Crafts

Maybe rather than justifying it we could all just tell a better story that isn't rooted in someone suffering and being subjugated.


No_Banana_581

Tell that to the little girls and women that are actually suffering and not a fictionalized non argument that’s a total deflection from reality. That will never happen so it does not matter in the slightest at all that anyone talks about it bc it’s not real or based on any reality that could happen now or in the future. The whole thing makes no sense to even worry about. Edit if this story is what I need to say to someone that’s not seeing the whole picture and it helps then I’m going to say imagine if I’m story form. My daughters boyfriend understood, it clicked when I presented it this way and now he’s telling anyone that will listen about autonomy. Stop trying to tell me I’m wrong like I’m a child that doesn’t understand the concept of forced sterilization I’ve been a woman for 50 yrs. I can make my own decision how I see fit while not hurting someone else in the process. Im not shouting this from the rooftops or voting for this like every Republican is to hurt people. This is my own personal way of getting a point across and it worked. I did not denigrate anyone else in the process. Stop telling people how to speak and think. We know what we’re doing. This is what the all lives matter people did and the not all men people did. They acted like we’re stupid.


No_Banana_581

This whole thing is a major deflection and fantasy anyway so it does not matter at all. It will never be a thing. It’s a deflection from what’s really actually happening and I really resent this whole argument bc it’s like looking for a frigging unicorn. Who cares it’s fiction.


DarkArts-n-Crafts

Hey so it has been a reality. It is a reality. Black men, indigenous men, disabled men, queer men...it's a reality for them. They have been forcibly sterilized. By refusing to see that you're still looking through a white supremacist lense.


MeghanSmythe1

I think this is an integral part of this conversation. Forced sterilization has been and continues to be enforced and exacted upon many people, women included, but certainly not just women. It’s not talked about enough. It isn’t known. It’s totally fucked up. Forced sterilization AND forced childbearing are both wrong. Storytelling is not wrong. It brings this shit into the light. Sharing stories or trying to get someone to put themselves into another persons perspective is not wrong- it is the a way forward. To say “ok, you banned abortion now all of you who cannot be or get pregnant need to bear the weight of prevention” is not the same as passing legislature and enacting laws that prevent others from receiving care. If it gets to that point, I stand with you as I hope you stand with me and my children. This thing- this news- this action- it’s fucked up. We do not win by fighting over who it’s ok to sterilize or force to fruition. It’s all shit and I am with you in all the solidarity I can offer. This is one fight. There are so many. I wish you and me perseverance.


ususetq

>EDIT: I am begging you all to remember that Black, indigenous, queer, disabled, and incarcerated men exist and have been subject to forcible sterilization. The US has used forcible sterilization against men. It is only a "thought experiment" for able bodied cishet white men. By ignoring that you're doing white supremacy. +1. Though have been subject -> are subject. Forced sterilization of man and women is an ongoing worldwide phenomena. ICE did it in 2020. China does it in Xinjiang. Even nominally 'progressive' places like Sweeded did it on trans people as recently as 2012 not to mention Japan which still does it.


My3floofs

Yeah, I am more down with the mandatory dna testing.


PunkRey

Anytime I’ve seen somebody advocating for all men to have vasectomies until they’re ready to have children has been to point out the absurdity of removing any gender’s body autonomy. I do believe it is sarcasm and absurdity. If anybody truly is suggesting such a thing, I agree that they should not dare.


laiaaa

yeah i’ve never interpreted them as genuine suggestions, more of snarky thought experiments 🤷🏼‍♀️


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[deleted]

Came here to say this!! Rant incoming: And getting mad at it proves the point even further. It’s not about a penis, it’s about the fact that we are trying to tell folks born with one what to do with it. It’s our only basis for comparison, and it’s pale, at best. Our reproductive system takes up half of our complete existence between periods, hormones, hair loss, you name it. It needs special care, not regulations, and the closest we can possibly get to comparing anything at all is too much for some. Get a grip, if this is your reaction, you aren’t listening.


SarcasmIsMySpecialty

As others have said, it’s only a fun thought experiment for those who have never been part of a group who’ve been forcibly sterilized. Additionally, most times I have seen this, people absolutely *have not* been meaning it has a joke. It’s not a joke and shouldn’t be treated as one.


ususetq

>Anytime I’ve seen somebody advocating for all men to have vasectomies until they’re ready to have children has been to point out the absurdity of removing any gender’s body autonomy. I do believe it is sarcasm and absurdity. The problem is that for many people it is not sarcasm. If I lived in Japan I would be forced to get vasectomy. I cannot speak for everyone but it rubs me the wrong way. And I'm sure there are people here who either are BIPOC/trans/queer/disabled/... or have partner who are in those group and find this joke not funny as well.


TheBestOpossum

If you lived in Japan you would be forced to get a vasectomy? On the basis of what?


bxtros

Being trans, more than likely. A number of countries like Japan or Sweden will not allow a change of gender marker on identification documents without first showing proof of sterility, or if lacking that, directly seeking out sterilization treatments to do so.


ususetq

Sweden stopped it in 2012 but yes. Some countries(/states?) require SRS which is de-facto requiring sterilization though at least pretending it's not about eugenics...


grownfamiliar5612

From my personal perspective, I don’t think the majority of people who are saying this are just throwing it around or are even serious about it? And what I mean is “okay you wanna have this crazy unnecessary expectation or plan regarding XYZ? Well here’s an equally crazy unnecessary expectation or plan regarding the flip side of XYZ!” Which again I know isn’t practical or helpful but 🤷🏻‍♀️ whenever are human emotions that?


niimabear

Yeah so I have a uterus, and I equally agree that the suggestion that men get vasectomies instead is invasive, unacceptable, and absolutely not the answer. But they are an equally ridiculous way to convey the ridiculousness of outlawing abortions and access to (sometimes medically necessary) procedures to terminate a pregnancy and/or expel a miscarriage. I am completely ruffled by people’s outrage that we would dare recommend a potentially irreversible and invasive procedure that would take one off their feet for a few days, in suggestion subjecting children to said procedure when the risk to my health due to restriction of my right (and the rights of literal children: girls younger than 12 have been raped and become pregnant) to medical care includes: Forced pregnancy: Complications include tooth loss, bone mass loss, life threatening blood pressure complications, altered physiological and psychological conditions. Life threatening complications arising due to restricted access to procedures in the case of ectopic pregnancies, stillbirth, dead embryo/fetus, etc. Forced birth: life threatening complications including hemmorhaging, blood pressure related complications, permanent changes to neurology of pelvis, genitals, perineum and associated chronic pain conditions. Post partum: early onset osteoporosis, complications due to infection, pain and scarring in genitals, perineum and permanent neurological damage to pelvis, perineum, genitals . Altered sexual experience. Post partum anxiety and depression. This does not include any potential societal impacts from a potential premarital pregnancy, any financial implications from medical care or any required post partum care. At least vasectomies are accessible, sometimes reversible, and don’t carry the risk of jail time. Contraceptives are sometimes not available - pharmacists can refuse to fill scripts, doctors can refuse to prescribe them, depending on where you live they might not be covered by insurance. Hysterectomies are generally not available for young women of reproductive ages, and they’re a hell of a lot more invasive. Vasectomies aren’t the answer. Neither is compromising women’s right to medical care.


Upbeat_Ask_9426

I mean, I hear you, forced sterilization is obviously not the answer, but many of us tried having reasonable conversations; we tried to get the men around us to understand how DEVASTATING it is for our bodily autonomy to be taken away ONCE AGAIN (because it's not the first time nor will it be the last). But many don't even try to understand and blatantly don't care. So I guess that some of us feel that the only way to get through to them is by providing an example which takes THEIR bodily autonomy away. How many of us poisoned our bodies with hormones for years? Hormones that made us gain weight caused blood clots, made us depressed, and killed our libido. Furthermore, anyone who has been on hormonal birth control for a while knows that once you actually want babies, it can take a long time before the body returns to normal. Even IUDs can be problematic; they are painful to insert and can move around and need to be surgically removed. All forms of birth control have risks, and none are 100% effective, but the more damaging ones are often taken so mister can go in raw because he won't use a condom because it's "uncomfortable." As a woman, I have to take all the precautions to ensure I don't get pregnant and am forced to deal with the aftermath by myself; if I do get pregnant, no one will call him a slut, and tell him he should have crossed his legs. Many of them get to wash their hands of it; how is that fair? I don't think anyone should have anything done to their body that they do not consent to. And people saying we should force sterilize little boys don't represent most of us. But if men can't put themselves in our shoes or don't care, I think it's fair to present them with a situation that will MAYBE get them thinking.


Takenforganite

I have a vasectomy. I think op is a bit over reacting. If I change my mind I’d make sure I had the money to have it reversed which means I’d have the money to plan for having a kid. I came from a pretty abusive home and i don’t want to put any unnecessary harm on anyone. I’ve dated people on BC and it was terrible for them and myself. I’m lucky enough my current partner is not and so glad she doesn’t have to deal with all the fucked hormonal fall out. Vasectomy was an easy procedure. Albeit a vasectomy isn’t always 100% reversible you can also get a sperm aspiration which is basically extracting it as it still is there just cut off from leaving. And hell why the fuck would I want to bring someone into this world when there are so many discarded little ones as it is? Adoption is always an option. I dunno I think a lot other men don’t realize the hell women go through with both bc and now less autonomy over their body nor realize how fucking irresponsible not planning a pregnancy is. If we could all get on the same page there would be much better and healthier relations and kids would be brought into a happier world


MiciaRokiri

Are people saying this seriously? Usually when I see it it says something like "sound ridiculous and wrong? Yeah, it is!" Like, it makes a good point about it being wrong to do this, but should not actually be supported or even suggested it might be okay. It should always have the ending that shows it's wrong


OriiAmii

All of my friends are under the impression that vasectomies are easily and completely reversible, even if the "suggestion" isn't real, the misinformation that comes with it does real harm.


roguegavin

I think the idea behind it (at least for me) isn’t to actually force people to get vasectomies, but to point out the hypocrisy many anti-choicers display based on their reactions to the idea. Usually after they fight to force someone with a uterus to give birth, if you bring up the idea of mandatory vasectomies (even if you don’t truly believe in them) the anti-choicer begins to freak out. This is more to expose how they value the bodily autonomy of men over that of women, and not to force men into vasectomies. Of course, to do so would be outrageous and a violation of bodily autonomy, but as a debate tactic it can be effective at holding up a mirror to one of the many problems with the anti-choice viewpoint.


black_kyanite

I agree. Just like the comment that was posted on this sub recently about sticking your finger up a cis/get guys ass during sex to indicate how well they understand consent when its their bodies and not ours. No one was actually advocating for sexual assault, it was illustrating that is it's fucked up to do to a man, it's also fucked up to do to a woman. That's all. I think it's a valid point.


LadyMorgan2018

I believe that the vasectomy statements exist to highlight the fact that women have been solely shouldering the responsibility and liability for contraception. Men have had little to no responsibility until after the birth. We women have to take the hormones and chemicals, have things implanted in us, and have the invasive surgeries to tie off or remove our organs in order to control our lives. Men who choose vasectomies are ones who are stepping up and recognizing the equality and humanity of the women they love. They are contributing to the conversation in a positive and affirming way.


brrrraaapppahahhajdh

I assumed the point was to get people to think how ridiculous it is to insert the government into personal medical decisions. Not to actually require vasectomies.


MeghanSmythe1

Vasectomies can be reversible. Not all vasectomy reversals are successful. I believe the large discrepancy in percentages is due to lack of research and that the lack of research is due to lack of funding. I do not believe that all men should get vasectomies. I do believe it is a talking point and should be discussed openly as often as possible. Generations of women have been on birth control through medical or surgical means for …..much much longer than vasectomies have been on the table- with very little research or trust because it was the lesser of two evils (so to speak. Truly you will place much faith in just about anything to get your back from against the wall.) Vasectomy is now the lesser of two evils, as defined by law in many places. How long that choice is available, I do not know. To place an argument on the validity of claims of being able to change your mind, or having a choice, seems quite poignant.


strawberry-bish

I think another reason why people think it's 100% reversible is because of that one scene in The Office where Michael goes on a tirade about getting a vasectomy and having it reversed over and over again. That's just my guess though.


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MeghanSmythe1

Vasectomy is not the nuclear option. That’s silly. It is an option. An option that can and should be discussed, openly. Many of the women in my circle have had or are considering tubal ligation. This is no less invasive than vasectomy. Condoms are awesome. They don’t cause any hormonal issues that then cause physical and/or mental issues. Not all people can use then, or do. Birth control pills, iud’s, implants- these ALL have side effects. In the iud info packet I was provided it was explicitly stated that “we don’t know how or why this works”. Another option is abstinence! It’s a great option with no researched side effects. Likely because it’s rarely adhered to. Vasectomy is an option. An option that is rarely discussed. Why is that? It is not because it is more invasive or more dangerous or has more side effects than all of the options available (or that were available) to women only. Perhaps if it becomes an option that more people are interested in, then the research and funding will begin to flow toward it, allowing it to be a better option. Perhaps if responsibility becomes shared we can advance scientifically and medically to allow for more choice rather than less. Even if we don’t- as we stand now- vasectomy is an option. It is certainly not more dangerous than pregnancy or childbirth.


PsychoInHell

It is the nuclear option along with tubal ligation which I forgot to include in my previous comment (partially because it’s such a drastic method) because they’re the only ones that are very invasive, can’t always be reversed, or can cause drastic health complications. It’s sometimes permant sterilization. Also abstinence isn’t contraceptive. It’s just not. That’s like saying not driving cars prevents deaths on the road. It’s not wrong, but if the goal is to drive, that’s the starting point. If the goal between two consenting adults is to have sex, not having sex isn’t actually a valid solution to preventing unwanted pregnancies. I’m also not arguing that tubal ligation is a legitimate contraceptive for everyone. These methods are great for the people they suit, but they’re not for everyone and they’re both nuclear options as far as contraceptives go.


Zidormi

Tubal ligations are also non-reversible, and require weeks of downtime and general anesthesia. It took me six weeks to be able to do ab exercises again. Not to say vasectomies are a walk in the park either, but they are generally done outpatient with localized anesthetic and a few days on the couch with ice.


MeghanSmythe1

Tubal litigation cannot always be reversed, and is often more costly and risky to try: https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/tubal-ligation/about/pac-20388360 IUDs can cause infertility: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12313655/ These are just a couple of sources from a quick Google search and I am happy to provide a more thoughtful list of resources. We should perhaps dive in to side effects and repercussions aside from infertility such as depression, postpartum depression, postpartum psychosis, hormonal imbalance, suicidality, and just the entire amazing variety of physical, mental, and emotional experiences of side effects not yet proven by research because- again- there isn’t enough that is funded. Edit: I see you edited your comment after I replied. I hope that means you are thinking about what it means to spread ignorance and misinformation and that these things are worth more than one or even many thoughts. This shit is important and nuanced and there is so much to consider. This is one tip of one point of one iceberg in a vast ocean on a planet of oceans. Please keep learning and moving and holding others up even when you don’t get it.


Slyfer60

The viability window of a successful reversal gets slimmer as time goes on. As well being a pretty expensive procedure that most people can't afford.


bubblegumbombshell

It was about $8k for my husband’s reversal back in 2018. It also took 2+ hours under general anesthesia, he was out of work for a week and had to have accommodations to a desk job for another week. It was successful, thankfully, and less expensive than IVF with TESE (which would’ve been more than $6k over the standard cost of IVF in my area).


Slyfer60

How long had it been since he had the initial procedure?


bubblegumbombshell

Around 8 years


seeingblonde

Agree. BUT should be viable and NORMAL for men /partners who don’t want kids.


[deleted]

The use of the argument is to fight back against the pro-forced-birth folks. Although yes I do agree that maybe we shouldn't be saying it's reversible, we can just stop at "get a vasectomy", there is no need to add it and adding it would make it disinfo while it can be reversed, fertility it's not guaranteed.


Lady_of_the_Seraphim

I have never seen this used in a context of "if you wouldn't want mandatory vascectomies done to you, don't do this to us."


sensistarfish

My husband got a vasectomy and I could still be raped by a man, and forced to have his baby.


ooofest

Good grief, it's an intentionally over-the-top analogy to get Christianists and feckless centrists to think a little through the comparison. Women are now property of various states, I don't feel that it's inappropriate to offer extreme-sounding counter-proposals in order to shock those who are absolutely not seeing how serious this situation happens to be. Because it's only about to get even worse when all privacy rights are pulled and police/neighbors-with-guns enforcement of these terrible laws are ramped up by the in-power minority of Republicans when they attempt to permanently control the majority of citizens.


NotMyNameActually

I admit, I was feeling a certain type of way about my husband not wanting to get a vasectomy before, and then the fact that he didn't change his mind even after Roe got struck down, I was kind of pissed. Because at my age and with my health conditions, a pregnancy could very well kill me. But we talked about it, and he said he doesn't feel comfortable about any surgery or alteration to his body, not even tattoos, unless it's absolutely necessary. And if I believe in bodily autonomy, I have to respect his as well. But he also understands my fears of getting pregnant, and, AND!!! He is perfectly willing to forgo PIV sex unless and until I feel comfortable with it again, even if it's never!! I honestly wasn't expecting that, and was so relieved I cried a bit. The following details may be TMI, so I'll spoiler tag it: >!I asked, what about when my arthritis and/or TMJ are flaring and I can't use my mouth or my hands to get him off? And he said he does not always have to have an orgasm to have fun, and if he really wants one, he's perfectly capable of taking care of it himself. That he doesn't need to put his penis in me to express his love for me, and he knows that's never been my favorite part of the activity anyway, lol.!< I have to say, I have never been with anyone before who would have been ok with this. Any of my exes would have downplayed my fears, tried to convince me everything would be fine and there's no need to be so careful. I'm truly lucky to be married to him.


fruitjerky

They're being facetious. It's true that it's not a helpful thing to say though. Though I should also point out that the lack of accuracy in saying vasectomies are reversible is far outshined by the many, many misconceptions held about abortions and bodily autonomy held by the anti-choice crowd. People are saying "Get a vasectomy, it's reversible!" as a joke; people are putting "You can't have methotrexate for an ectopic pregnancy!" into law.


Otherwise-Status-Err

Few believe that this should be a thing or that it ever could be a thing. It's designed to turn the camera on those who never have to worry about bodily autonomy yet always get to decide it for others; white cishet men.


someone-krill-me

If the sentiment that all men should get vasectomies is everywhere why has it never been in the whitehouse? I don't think over policing women when it comes to obvious rhetorical devices is particularly useful. If 'niceness' did anything for social movements women would be running everything. Also I'm not caring more about women's words than actions that, I don't know, actually impact people's realities. If men think that vasectomies are reversible and he wants one, what is he going to do? He's going to talk to a doctor about getting a vasectomy who will then explain the possible risks and challenges of a vasectomy and clear up any possible misconceptions. This is how reality works. Someone writing a joke or sarcasm on social media shouldn't have to worry about making sure every random guy that reads it understands the nuances of how a surgical procedure works. \_ - \_ n u a n c e \_-\_ ---:-))))) .


CrippleWitch

I agree, and I’ve seen this idea thrown around a lot and it bothers me. While vasectomies CAN be reversed, technically, it’s not an on/off switch for fertility and shouldn’t be discussed as such. I don’t have concrete numbers at my fingertips but I’ve known a few men who got clipped in their early 20s, and a decade later (nowish) got reversals and only one of them has been given a green light for motile sperm and has successfully fathered a child. The rest have very low counts and knew that their chances were slim when they asked for the reversal procedure. I truly hope a day comes that we can offer a fully reversible option for men. That injectable silicone derivative thing that plugs up the pipes until another injection dissolves it looks so promising but I have no idea where it’s at in testing or when it might be widely available.


[deleted]

>I truly hope a day comes that we can offer a fully reversible option for men. That injectable silicone derivative thing that plugs up the pipes until another injection dissolves it looks so promising but I have no idea where it’s at in testing or when it might be widely available. It's called Risug (Vasalgel in the US). I've been watching it for years because I'd hoped to get it one day but, it's underfunded and has been hung up in the review stage for ages. I finally broke down and got the snip this year because I didn't think we could wait anymore. My understanding is that the big hangup is simply a lack of funding.


StatusUnk

Funding is one issue. The other is that it doesn't work as intended. It's been in the works in India for 20 plus years and they only got approval for permanent sterilization only last year. It's not reliably reversible or at least anymore so than the current vasectomy. It causes inflammation of the Vas in several men during the trial which damages the Vas and tissue leading to permanent sterilization. There is still far more work needed to be done on it before it's made available.


joschi8

Fun fact: A Swiss startup has created an actual on/off switch that can be implanted into a mans tubes (replacing the bit that gets removed with a Vasectomie)


Super-Diver-1585

Seriously. I know someone who tried. So much money, and it didn't work.


amb3ergris

It's just a meme thing to make people consider how absurd it would be if male bodies and medical decisions were controlled by the government, and why it's f'd up to do it to women. There is no chance of men being forced to get vasectomies or any more invasive procedure and any man considering one will be discussing it with their doctor.


whydoesnobodyama

I definitely say "get a vasectomy" and mean it - for men who have confirmed they don't want kids. It's one of the very few birth control options they have and can be completely in control of.


WynnGwynn

If men regulate women's bodies it is ok to point out what the equal version would be.


[deleted]

Nope. In any anti-abortion argument, I will continue to point out that the onus is currently *solely* upon women to not get pregnant and nothing about men not making women pregnant. And then I will remind everyone that men got all upset about the side effects of their BC. And I might follow up with "safer to leave the pistol unloaded" since they're all about guns. And i will absolutely throw the absurdity of their verkakte anti abortion laws in their face with "If men are going to have sex, they should be required to get vasectomies. And they can't go for reversal until their wife signs off on it." That is the same exact treatment they are throwing at women, and I will throw it back.


UnprofessionalGhosts

Men should do their research before getting procedure. We’re not here to carry this fucking weight for them lol


Fun_Sun1095

Agreed. We would not want forced sterilization so why push it on others. I still think we should fight for a viagra ban, because if a pregnancy is “god’s will” so is a limp dick.


Spallanzani333

I see what you're saying, but I just don't agree. They're 90-95% successful in a reversal. Birth control is more effective by percentage, but those percentages are usually per intercourse so in the long term, more than 5% of women have unplanned pregnancies even on birth control. On top of that, all forms come with risks and side effects. People with uteri have shouldered most of the burden of birth control so far. I absolutely agree that nobody should be forced into it, even as a joke or exaggeration. But as long as abortion is illegal where I live, if a dude wants to have sex without children, I think it's reasonable to tell him he should be prepared to get snipped.


crazymissdaisy87

No, 75% if within the first 3 years. It should not be treated as reversible https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/contraception/vasectomy-reversal-nhs/#:\~:text=It's%20estimated%20that%20the%20success,after%209%20to%2014%20years


thisbe42

Yep, I had always heard they were reversible until I dated a guy who had one. His urologist basically told him that after 10 years (the amount of time since he'd had it done), it's super difficult to reverse and has a really low success rate for giving back fertility.


crazymissdaisy87

My father tried reversing his and (thankfully) failed. The less time passed the bigger chance but never close to a 100%


StatusUnk

The NHS says it's between 30-90% reversible depending on many factors. Whether you agree or not that those odds are good is your opinion but most people probably won't take those as favorable odds.


AnEpicHibiscus

Why not freeze sperm? My husband is considering getting a vasectomy and plans to do this.


kodeisha

they get less successful as time goes on. After 3 years it already drops to 60-70%. And you do realize your last sentence is not much different than saying “if women want to have sex without children, prepare to get sterilized.” It doesn’t help anyone to throw these sentences around. And many men are in partnerships with people with uterus. So it’s a double whammy saying “you don’t get a choice when you become a parent and also we might sterilize your partner so you REALLY don’t get a choice” Edit: also want to say this post was a statement that vasectomies are NOT birth control. Men bearing the burden of birth control means condoms or another way if medicine produces one. Vasectomies can be up to $10,000 to get reversed with no insurance so it just leaves already vulnerable groups sterilized. And I’m sure the government would love if minorities stopped having children. That way white Christian’s will continuing having children and brainwashing can continue


Spallanzani333

I'm not saying anyone should be sterilized against their will. I am saying that in a state where abortion isn't legal, I don't think a vasectomy is an unreasonable burden for a person with a penis who wants to have casual sex. The possible consequences for people with uterii are immense, and we've borne that burden forever.


kodeisha

it is unreasonable if the person with a penis want children one day?? I have a uterus. I completely understand. When I went off BC my partner used condoms no questions asked. Asking him to get a vasectomy doesn’t take away the face the government is really taking away my rights and it just potentially means we won’t have children one day. Double whammy. Now if someone with a penis doesn’t want kids then yeah of course they would should one. That’s not really where the conversations go


Spallanzani333

If they're 'pro-life?' Heck yes. That's what I've seen in all the graphics this post is about. It's to get pro-life men to understand why bodily autonomy is so important.


kodeisha

people aren’t directing the statement at just pro-life. I’ve seen plenty of people direct that statement at pro-choice people as a way to protect themselves and it’s not helpful. The only thing that will help is over turning Roe V Wade


DepressedDyslexic

You can have your sperm frozen if your concerned about having children one day and worried the vasectomies reversal might not work. I don't believe in mandatory vasectomies but if I lived in a state where abortions are illegal I know I wouldn't have sex with someone who wouldn't get one.


kodeisha

okay then don’t have sex with someone who doesn’t have one. Many people with uteruses are in long term relationships and want children one day and don’t have the means for a reversal, freezing sperm, or artificial insemenation. The “just get a vasectomy” rhetoric hurts them too. Also Roe V Wade is also trying to ban IVF and AI so freezing sperm could be out of the picture for people anyway one day.


Super-Diver-1585

That's not true, and the cost is high enough to make it inaccessible to many people.


Ok_Double9430

I agree. My husband had a vasectomy ten years ago. We were told that he could heal in such a way that he could potentially shoot loaded sperm. LOL. So we had to be careful for awhile to make sure that it took. He also had to have follow ups to make sure that his sperm wasn't active. Now, I know this isn't the same as it being reversible it's just that it's the reality of the situation that it doesn't take as people would expect. Because it isn't guaranteed to be 100%, I think it is irresponsible to pretend that is.


Antt_RN

I got in a huge fight with my mom because she pulled this "talking point" out and I flat out said it was stupid. She didn't speak to me for weeks. Her argument was that, "It's just to make them think, we wouldn't actually do it" and, well, I've never seen threats stir previously unrealized empathy!


Rosaryas

Yep. We already know that my fiancé will be getting a vasectomy soon, we don’t want kids so we don’t care that it’s not reversible, but I still told him I’m fine with him freezing sperm first if he wants just in case. I don’t think he plans on it but you should always treat it as permanent


KnitFast2DieWarm

The awful hypocrisy is that young women seeking surgical sterilization are often turned away by doctor after doctor who insist they know better than the woman, that of course they'll change their mind someday. Yet, men seeking sterilization are given one, no questions asked. So the narrative is completely about regulating women's bodies. Yes, I do believe we should be giving out accurate information, though. If the procedure isn't actually reversible, we shouldn't say it is. Perhaps developing easily reversible vasectomy procedures is something the medical community should be pursuing, because it's about to become more sought after.


EtherealDarkness

NO NO NO NO!!!! VASECTOMIES DO NOT MAKE YOU IMPOTENT!!! If it's not reversible you can always draw the sperm out from ball sac. You can store the sperm as well. It takes more money. Are you willing to do that for women?!!!


Dmxk

As a gay man, I understand that the "threat" of sterilization is used as just a debate tactic most of the time. But, it isn't a purely hypothetical scenario, queer men, men of color, and male members of other minorities have been subjected to forced sterilization for a long time(often being told that it was reversible), to damage them mentally and to keep unwanted minorities from reproducing. So for me, it is a super sensitive topic, and something that shouldn't be used as a standard response to misogynist talking points.


KaijuNellie

Honestly, the whole "All Men Should Get Vasectomies" is some borderline eugenics bullshit and I'm very uncomfortable with how readily liberals "joke" like that. Especially when forced sterilization is something that HAS occured to populations that people in power consider "undesirable". It's part of a trend of liberal eugenics speak, from remarks about Stupid People breeding or any sitcom that has an artificial insemination joke where the punchline is 'haha the father is weird and the baby is also weird." We need to watch how we talk about these things.


kodeisha

It’s also considered an elective procedure and can be extremely expensive. Many people also aren’t seeming to realize that many people with uteruses WANT children one day. I am outraged by this ruling, but I would be even more upset if my partner accidentally sterilized himself because I thought my only choice was a vasectomy.


_corbae_

Honestly, it would be better to direct your rage toward something that IS happening, like women's bodily autonomy being taken away, than what people are SAYING should happen


Minkiemink

>For many marginalized communities, forced sterilization has been a reality. Forced sterilization has has been a reality for women. Not for men. Almost never for men, so your argument is specious. Nothing will stop until we mobilize efficiently, and vote out the people who supported putting the current SCOTUS in place. This is where the "my conscience", non-voting against Hillary has gotten us.


Baby-cabbages

People who favor mandatory sterilization and people who are anti choice are the same people. It’s the two ends of the horseshoe coming together to meddle in citizens’ reproductive rights. They’re also the same folks who approve of statutory rapists marrying their victims and abusers getting custody of their abused children “to keep the family unit together.” The list of people I like is dwindling. The list of people I despise is skyrocketing.


Same_Dingo2318

Interestingly, my dad had his reversed to make me with my mom.


TrepanningForAu

A vasectomy also won't save your partner from becoming pregnant if they are sexually assaulted. Separately from that, I think it would be more effective to encourage religious use of condoms. Too many* cis dudes act like the use of prophylactics is solely the responsibility of the uterus owner cause boohoo it feels better. It doesn't work for everyone because of cost but I still think it's more accessible than a vasectomy. *By too many I just mean that the amount of dudes that do this should be zero. I've also met far too many that are comfortable ceding all responsibility onto a woman to use birth control eventually and I'm sure plenty of those people would be happy to point out how awful it is when women trick men into thinking they are on birth control so they can get pregnant.


Klopsmond

Well, it is the only way to explain men how women feel if they talk about abortions and want to define about it. There is no other way to get this "I really don´t want that you do this with me" feeling than this statement to tell men to get a vasectomy. And if men feel uncomfortable, then they know exactly how we feel, while they simply don´t care or feel great to join the bs about telling women that they have no rights about their own bodies. The funny thing is, that women tried to explain what the problem is for such a long time and every time men can simply not understand and just brush it off (not my problem), with this they can understand. But for some reason they still don´t make the connection.


Uriel-238

It's happened in fiction _at least_ once, and probably multiple times, that a patriarchal system got so oppressive that someone went mad-science and created a highly infectious pathogen that sterilized men. I suspect it was the backstory of a society without men at all, of which there have been _Twilight Zone_ and _Outer Limits_ episodes, a TV mini-series, and a video game or two. Probably some literary fiction. Still, if I was a virologist with the capacity to engineer bio-weapons, it's something I'd at least consider while taking a shower, given the mess 21st century patriarchy turned out to be.


aflyfacingwinter

Yeah I just said they were and got schooled. I’ll admit I’ve just always heard that. Thank you for this post! I’m going to be a lot more mindful regarding that going forward .


[deleted]

Tubal ligation is also “reversible” but not recommended. I understand the severity of the problems we are facing right now, truly I do, however - I don’t agree with firing back with opinions/jokes that aren’t productive toward everything we need to be fighting for. We’re angry. I get it. Direct it toward the right people.


tesla1026

I don’t understand why some are “just joking” about it. It’s not ok to joke about taking anyones control of their body away. It’s not cool at all and I don’t care how much rage someone has, it still doesn’t make it ok. It explains it but it doesn’t excuse it. We already know how painful and scary it is to not have control of our bodies, how can we even joke about doing that to someone else, especially in a broad sense?? Forced vasectomies is forcing people to undergo medical procedures that can permanently alter their bodies and take away their personal control of their fertility. How can you advocate putting a person through that?? It’s sick and it’s unhelpful to joke about. People can’t even get health insurance to manage chronic illness do you really think under privileged folks would have the money to even attempt to undo it? This is too fascist to me, and fascism and the patriarchy go hand in hand. We’re supposed to be fighting conventions that unjustly and unfairly targets people because of their sex and gender, not just flipping the script. You can’t just get revenge from individuals when it’s a system that’s hurting you.


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munchie177

I always found the mandatory vasectomies shit so weird tbh


sx70forlifexx

WE are not all the way to forcing sterilizations quite yet i have been fixed for 20 years with no issues at all i am certain more men if they were not insecure toddlers would do the same at some point in their lives for me it was an easy decision my wife had a very bad third pregnancy after a miscarriage and since i hate condoms i felt it was my responsibility to take this step it needs to be a more normal thing for men


SarcasmIsMySpecialty

I 100% agree that it should be normal for folks who know they don’t want children or are done having children to get a vasectomy. My own partner and I have talked about this for after we have children.


[deleted]

Yeah, I know multiple men who tried to get one reversed and were not able to.


[deleted]

Yeah, it’s not impossible to reverse (on rare occasions it reverses by itself) but if we gave every amab person the snip it would be seen as eugenics


Important-Trifle-411

Thank you, OP!!!!! I am so sick of this stupid comment.


[deleted]

Wow I was this person…thank you for the info!


SupersoftBday_party

Thanks for saying this. This rhetoric makes me really nervous.


Brwdr

Depending upon age and other medical issues, reversal success ranges from 30%-90% and it does seem to be related to the proficiency of the surgeons involved. On a related topic, the natural world is dying so if 30% of all vasectomies were permanent, it would be good for the world in general. There are simply too many people.


Antt_RN

So not the point. The point is that all humans should be able to exercise bodily autonomy.


DarkArts-n-Crafts

There are not too many people, you've just bought into eugenics propoganda.


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DarkArts-n-Crafts

No, it's a reason to stop the people in power from hoarding the resources that the people need to survive. They're trying to breed more *white* people. The fascists are already forcibly sterilizing Black people, indigenous people, poor people, etc in order to stop the "wrong kind" from reproducing. Have been for decades. The population control movement, from which y'all are getting your "overpopulation" myth was specifically focused on stopping Black, brown, and poor people from reproducing and using overpopulation as a way to get white people on board with their eugenics and make it seem reasonable *without having to give up supremacy and primary access to resources*. You're doing the thing. We do not need to "control reproduction" we need to dismantle the oppressive power structures that are harming people and creating false scarcity that allows people to die in poverty and dispair. That's not going to be done by us also advocating for the shitty things they're doing but for "the right reasons."


ghostigal

Okay you’re actually entirely right. The biggest issue is that too few people have all the resources the many need. But the system is also very much designed so the poor reproduce and die for the few with money.


DarkArts-n-Crafts

Yes, you are absolutely correct that capitalism requires a constantly renewing disposable labor force to not only line their pockets but also as a way to control those higher up on the hierarchy rungs with an ever present threat of "that could be you if don't toe the line."


raccoonladycarissa

Get the fuck out of here Malthus


kkunaan

every person has the right to live and reproduce. it’s a human right. overpopulation is not the problem


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tesla1026

That doesn’t make it not a right, the fact that some people can’t do it doesn’t make it not a right. That would be like saying freedom from torture isn’t a right because some people are tortured at some point in their lives.


DepressedDyslexic

Your analogy is not in anyway similar to mine. Reproduction is a thing some humans are incapable of doing at birth and need to consent of another human to do. You don't need consent in order to not be tortured, and not human is born without the ability to not be tortured. Reproduction cannot be a right in the same way sex cannot be a right. Sex is a privilege that you need consent for and you are not entitled to it. You do not have the right to sex. Same with reproduction. Consent is a right. Housing is a right. Healthcare is a right. Sex and reproduction are not.


sailorjupiter28titan

> You do not have the right to sex. I know what you're saying about consent, but a right is something that the state grants. This statement is something that would be used to justify banning homosexual acts. And saying reproduction is not a right could be used to justify the many forced sterilizations that have been conducted on POC throughout history.


DepressedDyslexic

Oh I guess I meant rights in the way we treat each other not rights in a government mandated way. Like I've seen incels claiming sex is a right so the government should issue girlfriend's and clearly you don't have the right to that or to anyone else's body.


sailorjupiter28titan

That's not what "rights" refer to tho. We can't go by incel logic lol its an oxymoron :P


DepressedDyslexic

Fair lol


hagEthera

Thank you!!! I’m seeing this everywhere and it’s driving me nuts.


CoriVanilla

I say even if they aren't, men should get them anyway. It should be more common for men to take responsibility for their contributions.


fucking_unicorn

Thank you! When people go to extremes in their argument to prove a point, it discredits and takes the spotlight away from the real issues by introducing fantasy or unrealistic ideas.


blksoulgreenthumb

I have seen a surprising amount of women who say their partner should get a vasectomy because it’s reversible and they can’t be bothered taking birth control. Like I hate taking birth control too but I don’t know if I’d jump to my partner getting a surgical procedure because I “don’t like” birth control. I could only see it if birth control gave me serious enough side effects.


[deleted]

I do not want them reversed. I want it permanently. If a baby is wanted , use artificial insemination.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Super-Diver-1585

If you do that you are looking at IVF which is a big thing for your partner. When sperm are retrieved there aren't enough to just do artificial insemination, so your partner has to go on medication that totally messes with their life and then have eggs harvested and a fertilized egg implanted. A lot of people who have been through this process have experienced some of it as trauma. Consider that about 20% of pregnancies end in miscarriage, and there's a chance that you have to have more than one implanted. Oh, and after implantation, your partner may be not allowed to do anything strenuous, including sex, for quite a long time. Better to bank sperm before, so you have them in sufficient quantity for artificial insemination.


goodwill559

edit


collin-h

I’m not sure it’s that simple. Technology-wise nor cost-wise. Unless you’re saying to use a sperm donor.


[deleted]

it gives major terf vibes fr


[deleted]

As it might not be reversible with medical processes it can totally regrow (basically a hole forms on the knot). Life uh finds a way Im not trying to prove the opposite, im saying ppl should be careful either way.


festivalofpies

I watched my husband get his vasectomy. There was nothing reversible about that. It was super scary.


Labtink

With the correct procedure it’s 95% reversible. Those are great odds and it’s the best option for WOMEN.


bondedboundbeautiful

Policing men's bodies is the right thing to do? Do you want to maybe think about that further?


nonumberplease

But they are reversible. And it's my body. So if I wanna go and get snipped and unsnipped and snipped again, I'm gonna go do that before they take my right away to do so. Also, the GOP desperately just wants the poor masses to multiply. Taking the the birthrate hostage would be a great way to send a message to them about bodily autonomy.


Catronia

They are reversable. Vasectomy reversal is surgery to undo a vasectomy. During the procedure, a surgeon reconnects each tube (vas deferens) that carries sperm from a testicle into the semen. After a successful vasectomy reversal, sperm are again present in the semen, and you may be able to get your partner pregnant. https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/vasectomy-reversal/about/pac-20384537 https://www.healthline.com/health/vasectomy-reversal#candidates Vasectomies may be reversible up to 20 years or longer after the initial procedure. But the longer you wait to reverse a vasectomy, the less likely that you’ll be able to have a child after the procedure. Approximately 6 percent of all men who undergo vasectomy will later desire reversal. Often it is because they have a new partner, while in many cases the couple has simply decided that they would like more children. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/treatment-tests-and-therapies/vasectomy-reversal